John questions the morality of sneaking in outside candy to the movies. Meanwhile, Jonnie joins the podcast remotely from snowy Michigan and tells the history of the phrase “innocent until proven guilty.”

Plus, a conversation about "The Pottery Class Paradox” and why making a lot of things is better than obsessing over perfection.

Today’s episode is NOT sponsored by Co-Pays at the Doctor’s Office: “It’s the money you pay AFTER you pay for insurance, and right before a mystery third amount that you’ll find out about later.”

FOLLOW Jonnie W: https://jonniew.com

FOLLOW John Driver: https://johndriver.com

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