takin' a walkMickey Stevenson worked for Berry Gordy from Motown Records and was responsible for signing the biggest names from that era, Steve Wonder, The Supremes, The Temptations, The Four Tops, Martha Reeves, Marvin Gaye and others.
Taking a Walk.
A living area was maybe fourteen to fifteen blocks in circumference. You step outside of that line, you got a problem. You only had a certain area to develop in in the first place. You had to make a decision when you step out the line. No, you could write into a problem. But if you want more information, you got to step outside the line. And not just me Berry Gordy smoking, I can name a few we all did in our own way, did the same thing.
Welcome to the Taking a Walk podcast hosted by Buzz Night, where he speaks with some of music's most influential people today. Buzz's guest is William Mickey Stephenson. He's known as the A and R Man, responsible for finding artists like Diana Ross and The Supremes, the Temptations, the Four Tops, Smokey Robinson and the Miracles, and more, the iconic artists that made up the sound of Hitsville, USA, Barry Gordy's Motown label. Now, let's join Buzz Night next with Mickey Stevens on Taking a Walk.
Well, Mickey Stevenson, Motown's first A and R Man. I am so grateful to have you on this virtual edition of the Taking a walk podcast. Thank you so much.
Hey, it's a pleasure being here. Yes.
So, Nikki, what did your mother mean to you as far as leadership and mentorship and her inspiration to you?
Her main point was you have eight hours to work when you get there, eight hours to sleep when you get there. What are you going to do with the other eight You got to put that into action and that was a little difficult for us younger, but as we learned that's very important. The more of that time that you use to develop desires you have make it work. The more time you use of that, the better you'll get and the more you throw it away and I deal with it, the longer it's going to take you to do whatever you think you want to do. Are you following me? Yes, So that's the bottom line. So for that I started using it, not in a hurtry. Well wasn't that's smart? But as time went on, I started recognizing that this is very, very important, and so my brothers and I we rehearsed and we did a lot of things. We rehearsed, we wrote songs, we did we actually used it performing wise. My mother, of course was a singer and a writer, and so we will see her doing the same things that she was telling us we should do. So it worked out great.
So can you describe the club and the speakeasy scene as you were growing up in Detroit?
The clubs, well, the Flame Show Bar, which was the main club that all the artists from around the country would come in and perform with performed there, and then we had a lot of little ones that were going on. And my mother, of course, was one of the main attractions at the main club, so she would have to figure out what she's going to do each week, could do the same thing all the time. So each time she would be practicing and working things out, we would watch her and decide, oh, wow, this is this is really something. And as we go out to the clubs, as I got older, of course, and went around and I saw artists and things happening, and I can tell whether they really worked on it or not by the way they were handling it on the stage. I could tell how much time to really put into it. I said, Wow, this is amazing. I mean, what she was showing us is what I saw later on in life. It panned out to be absolutely true. All that was all I took, all that into consideration. Are you with me? Yes?
And I'm thinking, could your mother have been an A and R person as well?
I don't think so, uh. And I say that because when she was coming up, there was no as a as A, as an entertainer and all that, uh in the world of controlling that industry, Blacks were not. They had very little possibilities of making that happen. We put it to you that way. So she dealt dealt with what she could deal with, uh an R and all that was not even in the picture. Just getting recorded and her time was was a huge job. So that's the one I can see that it changed as time went on, and and uh stay the marches and the development between blacks and the industry. He grew a little steps by step at a time. Are you following me? Yes?
But she had an ear for what sounded really terrific though, didn't she?
Oh?
Yeah, But those are gifts. I tell everybody. God gives us all gifts, two and three gifts. And her gift was to hear and recognize and those that she heard that could do something, she would talk to him about it. And I, fortunately for me, I have the same gift that she had and others like a Barry Gordy had gifts and Smokey Robinson has gift. Stevie wond That has gift. This is nothing, This is nothing new. These are the things are given to us by God from the day one. Now what we do with it is depends on who's around us and how we develop it. But you have gifts, I mean, that's just the way it is. We're not here just to be here. We're here for a purpose in my opinion, Please take that from my point of view. And those gifts are given if people around you and recognize that you have something special going on and help you develop that phenomenal. There are people around you that say, what are you doing that for? Why are you doing that? Well, that that's ridiculous. Now, lot of s gifts are being taken away from not taking away, let's say, blocked out. And when people see people around you that care and recognize it and push it, it's a wonderful thing.
Mickey, How were you able to stay on the straight and narrow track as you were growing up rather than you know, straight to the dark side of things, which you know can happen to anybody in life.
Well, I don't have an absolute answer to that. I do know that Fortunately for me, some of the people that adults at my time had went through changes and they saw me struggling trying to develop whatever I was working on, they were encouraging. So fortunately I did not lean or work with those who were in a bad position in their own right at that time. I wouldn't. There was not attracting to me. I was weren't looking at people who were developing things and moving along. I wonder how did you do that? How'd you make that happen? Well, oh, that's great, can you show me? I was in that kind of thinking. And that's again part of my mom's training. You know, you don't want to follow something that's getting involved as something that's not working. You see them in a bad place in life. You want to deal with things that are happening that's going in another direction that gives you inspirations. She al Wes say. And I would take time and my brothers we would take time and watch things that were really really happening and say, oh, I wish I could do that, how'd you do that? We was in that kind of a thinking. So now you got to stand back in the day. All around us, even in our living area was maybe fourteen fifteen blocks and circumference. You step outside of that line, you got a problem. You only had a certain area to develop in in the first place. You had to make a decision when you step out the line. No, you could write it into a problem, but if you want more information, you got to step outside the line. And not just me Berry Gordy smoking, I can name a few we all did had in our own way, did the same thing, and I would imagine that happened all around the country. So I was just one of those people that went at it. From that point of view.
The book tells such great stories. I could visualize every one of them. One in particular, recount that first meeting in the barbershop with the man known as BG, mister Barry Gordy.
Yep, Yeah, that was the place, the barbershop, which was then. Remember we I'm tell you now we lived in this so many blocks we had in that area that was it now? Uh So Benny Mullen who had a barbershop there, and and all the artists that would come into the city to perform or and the people that lived there. They wanted to get look better and all that they would go to. Mainly the guys would go to Benny Mullen's barbershop and he only had a few chips in there and a lot of things to keep you occupied so you can stay stay in the seats, and he would lose a customer.
You know.
He had chess games and chest checker games, and he had the phones and he had all that stuff going on, and uh, but he would he made it a point, because that's amazing how God works. He made it a point. Barry Gordy would come in and get his hair done and I would get mine done. So Benny Mullen said to Barry, man, this guy Mickey Stevens, you got to meet him. You know, he's really got a thing going on musically. And then he would tell Barry, I mean tell me the same thing. You know, Barry Gordy would be here in a minute, and I was telling you about him. He's got a great thing going with the recording. He got Jackie Wilson and all that he's producing him and writing, and he said, you guys ought to get together now. He absolutely he's absolutely set that up. And he could make that announcement to others coming into itself so they could stay. So he was he was pretty good, Thank God for him and so and at one point it absolutely happened. Barry was he only had two box chairs in the whole place. He had Barry in one chair and me and the other. And he said, oh, by the way, now, Mickey Stevenson, this is Barry Gordy Barry, this is the guy was talking about. So Barry Ben had plans of his own. Said to me, man, I heard about you and the things you're doing in the city here with the musicians and all that sort of thing and the writers. And he said, uh, we got to talk. I'll be back in about two or three weeks. I'm going to finish the project on Jackie Wilson his album, and I would like to have a meeting with you, and I'll give you a call and we'll get together. And I was excited about that because I said, man, just the songs you're doing, man, it's incredible. How'd you do that? And by the way, I got a couple for you too, because you can take I was ready to get into his deal. What the forgot that label he was with with my songs and everything. He said, well, I got I got, I got my songs together. They say, but we'll talk because I heard about what you got there. We'll get together. And that was the beginning of the relationship between Barry Gordy and I and uh and really when he came back, I took maybe a couple of months stuff like that. He called me and said, you got to come over to my place for a meeting. And I was really excited because I gathered all my best songs. I'm going to be for him to record me with my saws. That's what I was thinking about. He had a whole other idea completely and with that happening, I get to his place. Is living in an apartment building. We call it ghetto fabulous apartments buildings. You know where you push the buzzer, and the buzzer with buzz you better grab the door before it closed or you couldn't get it. You gotta start all over again. I'm into his place. I'm walking down the corridor going to his apartment and he's standing there with the phone in his hand and some shorts on, and I'm saying, wow, I'm looking for us. This is great meeting and a great place. When I get into his place. I'm in his apartment. He said, okay, let me hear your songs. Still got the phone in his hand talking, and uh, I'm looking around. I'm saying, where's the piano or you know, I don't see no piano. I see nothing, none of that kind of stuff. And he says, uh, when you look for I said, well you got a piano. He said, well, I got piano. Got to do it? You sing right, you're right right? I said yeah. He said, okay, well start saying it. So that's that's how we hooked up. And I sang about three or four of my songs. And between him talking on the phone and listening to me, I'm saying, this is a guy. Is he painting a mention here? And when I finished about four songs and so, he said, you got some pretty good stuff there, and I said, and I was impressed. I said, okay, now let me show you the one that's going to be the hit on me. Was my line. I'm still working on me being him producing me. So he said you, he said the song that you He said, I didn't bring you here to produce you. I said, well, well, you said my songs are good he said, yeah, but your voice is for shit, you know what I mean. So that wasn't too exciting for me. I immediately start collecting by step off the floor, ready to get out of here. He said, what you're doing? I said, I come to you. I thought you wanted to produce me. He said no, no, no, no, no no. I hear what you're doing. I see what you're doing. And I'm starting my own company, and I would like for you to be the n R man for my company. And I had no idea what he was talking about, so I said, a man, what is the NR man? He said, artist and repertoire. You're going to find the artists, the writers, producers. You're going to record the session, so we're gonna make hit the records. And I said, wow, oh yeah, now my mind's turning you again. I said, if I'm the n R man, can I record myself? He said yeah, you think it's going to be a hit record. I said, that's now I'm interested in whatever this n R stuff is all about. So I said, old, kay, who do I report to if something goes wrong? Anything? And he said you and me, that's it. I said, nobody else. He said, no, you and me. I said, okay, uh, I said, I said, well, what were you paying for this? He said, you get I think he said five ten dollars a day or something like that, and all that chili you can eat. I said to myself, this guy's crazy. You know what I mean? I said, well, you know, let me live, let me let me think about it everything. He said, okay, you know, but to move on with that. I accepted the position because I was going to leave. Matter of fact, I was leaving and I was I was saying to him, I want to think this thing over. I'm trying to figure out how can I make this work for me? Could I get him there? And in my mind because I still get him to produce me as an artist, and I'm walking away, and I remember my mom. You want to get into something, you want to make it work, You got to try it. If it's in your vein, if it's where you're coming from, the things you're about, you're going to learn all you can. And those those thoughts were walking in my head work working in my head. I was as I was trying to get out of the place, and then downed on me that what if I got to lose. Uh. And this is another thing, you know, twenty four hour time, eight hours of the working and I was thinking eight hour was planning. And I said, wait a minit, wait a minute. I turned around. I said, uh, you know, okay, I'll work this out with you. I said, when do I start? He said, you already started. He had the confidence that I was going to take this position. That was amazing because he and it brought back the thoughts of you know, you around surround yourself with the people doing the right things, making things happen, that energy transfers to you. It said, you really wanted to get it. Whether it'say your educational program, whether you want to be a doctor, lawyer, whatever, whatever it is, you got to be in that atmosphere to help make it work and your your gifts work. And so I settled with that, and well, amazingly, here comes Smokey Robinson to his place. Smokey's coming down the hall, coming to the door, and he walked up. He told Barry said, man, Mickey, seems that we say white. Why you got Mickey here? And Barry said, he's going to be the an R man for our company. Now. Bottom line is Smokey and Barry had been talking all the time. They already had this plan in motion, not for me, but start this new label. And when uh and so smoking I we knew each other. So Barry said, uh, you knew you know. He said, oh, man, yeah, this is great. He said, well he's the n R man. He's smoked. Say, fantastic, man, I got a session tomorrow and such and such a time, and I need another drama and blah blah blah. I say, okay, you got it, and Barry said he got it. Smokey said, if Mickey said I'm gonna have a drama, I'm gonna have a wrong And uh so, so the smoke you knew about me because we because school and all that. We were like battling in groups, making making deals with different parties. My group would performed, his group would performed, and we were we had a battle going on. So we knew each other, and he knew how I operated. If I say I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna do it. And so Barry said, wow, I got the right man. That was the beginning of the Motown Motown operation.
Yeah, and what an operation it became. My goodness. Now, when Smokey further worked with you. He knew you were a man of your word and that you did everything you said you would do even further right.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. Never stopped. I only got wiser, more deeply involved, more. Uh. And it was a good feeling when I found someone with the gift, and I always kept that in my head. Now you gotta have the gift. Just say you're a singer. There's great words, but that don't mean that you are a singer. You may think you are. Are you working? Have you worked with it? Are you you know? I look for that. Just say you can sing is one word. Let me hear you. Then I say, well, why would you sing out a tune like that? Why wouldn't you go with somebody show you how to stay in pitch. I would go that way. And you know, just plus you heard the record. Now you want to say it. That's one thing. Development is another. And I would say how much time you spend on working on your voice? I would say that to people who come to audition for me, and I could not help but to say those things. And some would say, well I don't do that much. I say, well, you better start adding that into your daily routine. That's the only way you're going to get better. And I would and I say, come back after you've done some of that, and let me hear you again. Now if I find out you don't have a voice at all, you know, I would say, thank you very much, see you next week. I'm done. But when people would gifts, and I'm sure you do. You've heard this, and you've been around people. You see gifts there, they're just wonderful. What do a person do with that gift? And and and and who around them encourages them, and who around them that want to pull them down. That's the battle with talented people in any field, in my opinion. So with that working I had the I was fortunate enough to hear some very talented people come in. Some come in as a singer and I said, who wrote that song that you're singing? The person said, I wrote it. I said, you wrote the song by yourself. Yeah, I said, I tell you what, I won't sign you as a singer right now, but I will sign you as a writer. He said, while you do that, I said, because that song is good. You got great potentialism. Your voice is okay, but your writing nobility is really special. You want to come in those terms, they said, you'll sign you was the right, I said, They said okay. So it was a whole thing going there with me. Some came in as writers, but they sang better than they wrote. I said, well, you know your voice is good, but why would you say that song? Won't you find of the songs? Anyway? And it kept going and I'm talking, you know, fifteen twenty people every week, sometimes more. And because I was on the hunt, I wanted to have the best that I could get for this company to grow. And they went on and don't want. And as we went on, it got better and better, and some of the best talent would come in. They would come in as one way, go out as another. They'd come in as singers, be be writers. Some came in as singers and writers, which were great.
Tell me about the hysterical story about how Martha Reeves became so fixated on UH signing with you.
Martha, I we better at the UH. I think of the club was called UH. I can't think of it that neighborhood now, but she she sang in the club UH. And she walked up to me, And now I told her when she sang it was like maybe three or four acts singing in the club and uh, and I said, you gotta, you gotta, you got something going here. Why don't you come by the office let's talk. So she uh was excited about it when we came. She came to my office. I wouldn't not say an audition, but I wanted to find out more about her as a person. And in the meantime, I'm doing three or two or three things at the same time, and uh, so I didn't have a lot of time for her when she showed up and uh said, well, let me get back with you later, come back. I would name a day something like that. Martha was determined to be with this company. She would come constantly try to get me to meet with what she's doing, her songs and her way of singing and all that. And what happened was my secretary was leaving and she saw Martha all the time because Martha, her and Martha got to be friends. And I come into my office and one of the days in that week and there's Martha on my phone and I'm saying in my office, I said, what are you doing? She said, putting the finger just a minute, like she's handling a call, took the information down with the person. Blah blah blah blah blah. I said, what you doing on my phone? She says, well, her friend who was my secretary. She said she had me coming here because she had a lot of things going. Now I will allow to help her out and all that. And I was watching her talk and I saying, wait a minute, I know my secretary was leaving. I said, uh, you're pretty good at that. She said, that's a manute that the call came in again. She went through the conversation. Yeah, well, mister Stevenson would do this for you, blah blah blah, give you a number, put that down. While she's talking to me. Now she's my secretary of Paul And I said, she said, uh, I said you know what. Uh my my girl's leaving.
You know that?
She said yeah. She said, I said, okay, uh I take it. You want this job? She said absolutely. She said, I come to be an artist. Though the sound the lady, I said, hold it the whole about the signing part. But I said, you're pretty good at what you're doing, so we may work something out. Bottom line is she had had her plan for me and she but she was very good though. She was very good, and so of course I got around to me recording her. But she was had no I had no plans of leaving that building, and she was going to make it through that building. She was that determined and I like that. I like that part about her. And when she got to be my assistant secretary, shall we say? She would say to me, I don't call me a secretary, called me your assistant. She didn't like the word secretary. I said, okay. But when the artist came in, whether it was smoking or somebody that she admired, all that she would still keep the respect of what her position was. Where other people working around saying, oh my god, it's smoking or here's so and so, when they get out of the job and start getting involved, Martin never did that. She stayed kept it business. She kept respect for the position that she was in. For me. I loved it about her, and eventually I got around to record her. As you know, but she had that in her mind as part of what she wanted to do, and I liked that about her. At the time that I did record her. We did the dancing in the Street song. When I called her, she she would never leave the If I stayed till eleven or twelve o'clock at night, she would stay. I mean when she came in, she would stay there. And her deal was, I'll stay here as long as you're here. I said, wait a minute, She said, hold it, I don't want to know. You know, I gotta pay pento overtime. I say, okay, you got a deal.
What a great lesson that is for anybody coming up the ranks in any business to just be resilient and steadfast that you're going to get what you want right.
Yeah, oh yeah, I else you're going to do it. I mean, it don't work the wise. You got to be lucky for somebody to have you, and you don't spend the time and the determination to be what you want to be. You got to have that. That's important, not only if when you get into that position, but to make it grow. You see, that same feeling and thoughts got to be with you. Not just to get the job, whatever the job is, but if you want to make it happen. You get the job and you keep that energy and that desire to be the best you could be at it. So it never stops.
But you were going to get to talk about what you're working on with your two musicals because you never stop. So we will touch upon that.
We'll be right back with more of the Taking a Walk Podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast.
Can you tell us that beautiful story that would result in the Four Tops coming to Motown?
Well, that was amazing The Four Tops when I, uh, I was, I came home on a furlough and uh, we have a theater like a poplo like I told you, was a war Field theater in Detroit, and I'm I'm coming in and I'm going to the theater. I'm a furlough because I want to, uh have some fun. I got missed my uniform on and I'm coming in the place and I'm looking around as see of the best girls and who I could talk to a lot like the soldiers do and do you have? At the theater, they had an amateur show and they had the movies. Okay, the amateur show were like the Apollo was going on and these acts were coming out performing. They were terrible, and then one or two was reasonable. Then the Four Tops came on. They were called the Four Aims at that time, the Four Aims come on and these guys started singing and they were doing a combination of jazz and R and B all wrapped up in one song. And it was and they were singing, and LEVI was taking those notes and taking that was the lead singer to a whole another level. And I said, man, these guys are great. They're gonna be stars one day. And in that process and listening to it, looking at that and watching them sing, remember what I did with my brothers and Apollo and the determination and all that, I said, Wow. I was supposed to at that time re enlist in the in the army where I was at and UH. And I decided right then and there, I'm not going to stay in the army. I'm going to go deep into this business that was before Barry and when I so, I had my mind at it as an artist and all that. When later on, when I was asked to come back and resign, you know, sign up to do some more years, the colonel asked me, man, got you officers training school and you'll be a great UH officer for your people. That line didn't lock me out, and I said, nah, I'm out. Of here with the army, and uh, of course I got with Barry and blah blah blah. That went on. Now years later I mentioned and Barry said to me one of the jazz label. And I said, damn jazz label. When in the jazz label less than fifteen percent of the market. He said, you there and our man, I said, yeah. He say, get me a jazz label. I said, okay, okay, okay. So I said, I got to go to Chicago and New York whether see what musicians we can you know, sign up to be on our jazz label. I go to New York. I'm hunting around all the jazz musicians. They're very, very, very good, but they didn't want to be locked down into a label. They all played with each other on different sessions. And you couldn't build a star in my mind on our line. So I said to Barry, he said, enough of this, man, I gotta I gotta do this another way. He said, what's your game plan? I said, I'm gonna get me like a Nancy Wilson. Then I've had a jazz musician's play on her. Now we'll cover the jazz line. But we got an artist on our label. He said, it's a good idea. He said, well, how are you gonna do that? I said, well, I'm going to Chicago for that. So today I'm just quitting right now. I'm gonna go down in the village and have himself a little fun and prepare to get out of here the bar and I'm going to Chicago. He said. Okay, I'm in the village down in New York and I'm walking in. Well, I'm enjoy myself and I'm passing this club and I hear these guys singing. I'm standing outside. I looked at her under the name of the Four Tops, and I'm looking at him saying and I said, wow, those guys are really good. Reminded me of the group that I heard when in the in the ed Warfield, and they were singing really good. So I said, man, these guys are great. I walked in the club and sure enough it was the same guy as they had changed their names to the Four Tops, and I said wow. So I sat down and watched them, and I told the owner of the club and come over, and I said this, when they get off the stage, I would you have them come over, and I want to talk to him blahlah blah blah blah. He said, sure you know, and she said who are you. I said, Mickey Stevens in Motown. Gave him a little history stuff, and sure enough the show was over. They're part of it. They were singing now behind Billy Eckstein his backup, but they were opening act. And I really went down to see Billy exty. But when I'm standing outside and hearing his voice, it's this group. I said, this is great. Anyway, I'm in there. The guy, the owner, tells the Four Tops about me, and Duke Faker, who was the head guy with the group, came over. He said, well, who are you, man, and they heard you wanted to talk to us. I said, yeah, man, I said I saw you guys. I said, I see you changed your name from Ames Brothers because it was a white group, all the Ames Brothers, I might add, And I said to now to the Four Tops, I said, but I saw you in Detroit and I told him when it was and I sang the song that they did to win the contest. He was in shock. He said, how'd you know that song? I said, I heard you guys sing it, and I thought you were great, and I said to myself, these guys are going to be stars. And I said, and I'm in the position to make that happen for you. Now, Duke, I'm talking like this now. Duke looked at me as if to say, this guy. Who is this guy? And he called over. He said it's Mick Steveson with Motown. He said Motown Detroit and said, but yo, man, but y'all just doing that R and B stuff. You know, we're not R and B singers. I said, we don't do R and B stuff. We do music. And you're not just singers. You sing songs of any kind of song. So you take that one style out of your thoughts and become an artist who sing songs, and we're a company who make music. Then we can come together. And he said, man, you're very determined about this thing. I said, when you leave this place, you come to Detroit, come home, come to my office. We'll get together and I'll make your stars. And he looked at me. He said, man, I said, before you, before you stop right there, I'll be back in two weeks. When are you leaving this place? He said, Well, if you're going to be back in two weeks, we're gonna come back and see you. About two weeks later, he's knocking on my door at my office and my secretary says, this guy is the Duke Faker for tops are here. I said that bury him in and we just houcked up right there then and there, and uh. I brought out the contracts too. I didn't waste time with a whole lot of dialogue. I said, man, you made the best movie of life. And I pulled out the contracts. I said, now you take these contracts to your lawyers, to whoever you work with, and get it straight and come back to sign them. You're on. And he said, uh, we take them to our lawyer. I said, I'll tell you right now, I ain't changing nothing on the paper. And the Duke looked at me and pointed this and said, we're gonna sign this contract. And I'm holding you responsible for everything you said about making us stars. I said, you got a dep.
Oh, and everything worked out pretty well.
I would say, absolutely absolutely. Barry going, he said to me, man, we got a love group. I said, very this is not just a group. You're very special. I said, hold it, am I r man here. He said yeah. I said okay. Then that's I signed this group. I said, but before you say anything else, come on over to the studio. So, because I had him in the studio area, we'd talk meeting the musicians and everybody. I walked over there with Barry. I said, okay, uh four talks, leave a sega song. They said, what kind of song? I say, don't care what kind they say, just sing a song. When they started singing, and Leavit started hitting those notes and the group was right behind him. All the producers just went and left the room. And Barry said, wow, man, these guys are something. I said, Oh, look too of you, and and and and they all left the room because each of the producers and writers went to their room. So they started writing some songs for these guys. Rry just looked at me and walked away.
Now you had some hard and fast rules when you went into the studio with you know, players and bands and musicians. What were some of your rules of discipline that needed to occur when you had a studio session.
Well, first of all, you can't bring anybody with you, no friends and all that kind of stuff. Each person knew exactly where their position was. If I had two guitar players. Most of the time, I had two. One was rhythm, one was lead all your chords and stuff for your songs that you're dealing with. But when the writers' producers bring their music in and I had people work with them, so these things are written out so we don't guess at nothing. And if you, like do want to make a change, you can make a change while you're running it down. And so everybody had to have the pencils that had keep it in order. If you're producing a song or writing a song, I didn't want anybody changing your stuff because you spent time to develop it like it is. So bottom line is all my musicians had to be able to read. That's number one. And when they came in and I picked them one at a time, I mean each every musician was in there as individuals. They wanted to be great at their day. You take people like that together, you really got yourself a unique sound. So each one of these musicians at the Funk Brothers we call them, each one of them wanted to be great at what they did on their instrument period, and so when they all had the same calling as they came together, they only got better.
So I'm going to mention some of the great artists from Motown and get your reaction to this amazing roster that shaped music history. First person is Stevie wonder Ah.
That was a gift from heaven. I was singing with Clarence Paul. Clarence Paul and I were like the Sam and Dave shall we say in Michigan and what class was? It was incredible blues singer.
Me.
I'm in a whole nother world of my mom singing, popping jazz and all that. So he got me singing with him and we sang around the country. Idawore Michigan and all that. We do clubs and that was my income was working with Clarence when I took the job. As in Motown, we're doing well recording product and coming out with the hit records. I hated the albums because they were not They was just one of two songs on there and nothing else was happening. So I told Barry, this is not working for me. We got to have good songs in the album, not just songs just because we got to hit. He said, Okay, that's your job, you figure it out. So I hired Clarence to work with me in Motown to check on all the albums that were coming out. His job was to make sure the songs are really on the one in there. It was first release and second release in the album. Now the other songs got to sound as good, not stuffed. Was worked on and thrown away, and I just stick it in the album. Uh uh, the album's got to be good. That was his job, and I'm saying it to say how we got to the cebe Winder. At a certain point, Clarence after about a year year and a half, Clans said, man, can I produce some of the main artists? I said, Clams, I can't take Smoky off of the Temptations, And I hollered on Doors away from Supremes and put you on. It don't work like that. These guys are coming up with hip product. I said, off time some artists for you to work with. He said, okay, man, he said, but let me tell you. I found this kid, like to bring him in and do some work with him. And because I'm saying to myself, I gotta let Clarence go because I can't change my roster here. But this is an opportunity for him, so he can let himself go take me off the hook. So I said, okay, why don't you let me hear what you're talking about. He said, well, one more thing, man, He said, he's about eleven years old. I said, hol to Clarence, you're bringing an eleven year old kid in here? He said, Mickey Stevenson, your words, your bond, and you say I can do it. So this is what I want to do it with eleven year old kid? Can I bring you in and work something out so you can listen to her? I said, okay, man, do that. He said one more thing. I said, what's that? He said, he's blind. I said, class Paul, have you lost your mind? You're gonna bring a eleven year old kid and you're blind and co produce. I said, okay, you can bring him. Every time I see that kid, I want to see you hand in the hand if he falls down the stairs or do something. Barry Gordy's gonna kill me and I'm gonna kill you. So he said. He said okay. So two weeks later, Clance comes in and he brings Stevie with him. The sessions about the clothes, so, uh, let me see musicians kind of wrapping up. Clans takes Stevie over to the drummer and give Benny Benjamin a HNT. Benny got up and Clans set Stevie down on the drum. Stevie pushed his hands around, touched all the drums and the symbols. Now the band is still kind of pop. He's still cut in his pocket. Stevie jumps right in on the leg. Then he makes a run cook, I'm in shot. Everybody else look. Stevie gets off the drums. Benny Benjamin says, back down the drum. Not the band is cooking up again. Class Paul takes Stevie over to the organ. The organ player gets up. Stevie feels the organ and he's right into the pocket with organs.
Up.
Class takes him off the organ. Earl band black sits back down. Organ in shot. So now he's cooking. All of a sudden, the sound that they were closing down with is lifting up in the space, and then the groove is cooking. They're all amazed at this kid, but they're loving what the feeling is that he's giving them. Stevie goes over to the microphone as got him, pulls the mic Stevee takes the harmonica out of his pocket and starts blunting. Now the groove is cooking, and steven Man puts the harmonica back in his pocket and starts singing, Oh baby, why don't want you? Why don't haunt it? The band is cooking like a big dog, and he's singing words coming out of his mouth, but you can hear the tone of his voice. I left the studio with the office, told him to call a lawyer friend of mine and ask him what is the deal signing a kid eleven years old? Blah blah blah blah blah. He gave me the information. What I had to do, I legally. Now they're still in the studio. I go over to Berry's office. I said, b g on, sign this kid. We got over here. He's uh. He said, well, keep saying anybody you want to just your job. I said, wait minute, it's a little bit different. He said, what's that. I say, he's about ten, eleven years old. He said what I say, Wait a minute, and he's blind. Barry said you crazy, I said, I said no. I said, I have never seen gifts like this before. Now you know, we all got gifts out here, but he's got some special gifts and I want to sign him. I said, hold it, before you say a thing I was. I already called the lawyer and found out what the things we had to do. When you take on the kid like that, you got to have make sure that he gets some schooling. You got to have people first with him. He got somebody to schoolwork. Uh, that's responsible for that and uh and we got to pay for that and all that. He said, you know what you're saying. I said, I know exactly what I'm saying. I said, am I the n R man here? He said yeah. I said, then I want to sign this kid. It's as simple as that. He said, okay, I'm holding you responsible for I said, okay, that's my job. I'm responsible. I said, come on, come on. He say what I said, I want you to see what I'm talking. He comes over to the studio and Stevie's stealing a little bit of his musical thing like that, and he said, wow. I said, now this guy is going to be phenomenal. We just got to stay with him. That's how Stevie got there, and we stayed with him. And everything that he said he could do or I heard he could do. He did, and those are gifts that are amazing. And I made sure that nobody interfered with that and he took off. Oh that's a beautiful story.
Wow, what I mentioned, Diana Ross, What do you think about when I mentioned her name?
The same thing? Special gifts? Uh uh? And she she was determined and that that idea of working, you know, like four or five hours blah blah blah. She would spend more time than that. Well, we had the artist development area where you know, you had to come in get your once you had a song, like how you gonna perform it? I is it gonna look on stage? And I got that from my mom just don't stand there and saying unless you're gonna sang opera, you better do something else. So we had a we call an artist development area where we had teachers would show you how to perform with your with the microphone and you know, make yourself loose it just don't standing for the microphone to say so, we had dance routines and all that.
Nine.
That was the kind of artist that was determined. She would even come into the rehearsal area we're working out the choreography, and she would stay. I mean she only only had like an hour or two in there, she'd stay as long as she could. She had a whole determination of being as good as she could possibly be, no matter what. And if someone else was late, she would say, can I take that time? Absolutely? I mean she had a whole nother direction. But like like my back to my mom's teaching, as many as many hours as you could spend on your gift or your talent, that that would pay off. The less you spend, it's going to hit a wall.
More great lessons. How about Marvin Gay?
Marvin was a whole nother case. I heard Marvin Gay singing and I said, oh, I love his voice. I didn't like his songs, but I love his voice. So, uh, I told Barry. I said, okay, I'll do something. He said, what do you mean something. I said, I'm gonna get some hits on me. He said, you're gonna get some hits on him. I said yeah. He said, uh, okay, you're gonna what's the deal. I said, what do you want the deal to be? He said, well, uh, it's five hundred dollars bet like we do. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no. A thousand on this one. He said a thousand where I said, man, I gotta change this guy's mind. He's standing to looking like Andy Williams. I got to change his thinking. I love his voice and he's creative. I said, it's gonna take some time, and I'm gonna make it. You're gonna make that apple? I said, yeah, but the BET's a thousand dollars. Now what's the deal? He said, you got a bet? He said, okay. Now I'm we're talking like this, and Marbin right on the side of it. He can hear this conversation. So we Burry left and Barbara walked to He said, I what is this. What's the plan you got to do with me? I said, hey, man, first of all, let's become friends. So let's get to know each other he said. He said, how are you gonna probably gonna make that? Cause he's kind of pissed off, you know. He said, how you gonna make that happen? I said, I see you write songs. He said, yeah, I sid well, we write some songs together. He said, you write some songs with me. I said, sure, you got gifts man. He said, okay, then you want to get to know each other. He said, okay, because he was surprised that I said that, But I really admit that because I saw some of his writing, so I said, I said, oh yes. So we started writing songs together. And then we were writing songs I tell him before maybe the contours or something like that. So we be writing a song. So I would sing a line and uh, you know, oh baby, why don't you come back? Whatever I'm doing? And then he would say why don't you I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, you can't go that way. You got to sing a I'm singing that go to church. So I said, I sing my line, oh baby, why don't you come back? And he said, oh baby, why don't you come back? I said, That's what I'm talking about now, I said. We kept. We do the lines. I do my lines, he do his line. So we worked out about two or three songs, and each time I slipped back to the same one. That make it better. So I go to my place and I take a razor and I splice out all of my lines and tape all of his together. You know, in those days, you have to take a corder, you know, to take a little razor and you cut down. You can take the table out. Remember that, yep, yep, yep. So put all his lines together. So I came to the office and called him me and I said, come on with you. Hear something? He said, what's that? I played the song and all of his lines consistently, consistently staying in order and very so for He said, wow, man, how'd you do that? I said, I cut all minds out, put all yours together. I said, now do me a favor. Why don't you sing this song and take me off the hook with Berry, and then I'll do the jazz album on you. He said, you do a jazz album. Of course, you know I come from jazz. Ain't no a big deal, I said, But I got to get off the hook with Berry with shoot. So he said, okay, I said, not anything that don't sound right. In those days, you can put the earphones on. I could be in the studio and I can sing it. You could hear me while you're out recording. You know, you fol what I'm saying. Yep, I said, anything that don't work right, I'll say sing it to you. You can sing the same thing I'm doing. You got a better voice. And me said it's gonna sound better automatically, but you'll know where we're going. He said, okay. So we were in the studio and we did just that. I think I made maybe two stopped. I sang it where he go go back, and then he'll do it better. But after that he didn't need me because he got the whole thing in his head. He finished it, and so I got the record. Barry's coming down. How you doing with the barbigade? I said, how am I doing? Give my five dollars? He said to you, what You're crazy? I ain't heard nothing. I said, here, take this demo back to the office. I'll wait right here. He said, are you Are you sure? I said, just take it back to your office. He turned around, went back over stairs to his office, came back downstairs about five minutes later, opened his pocket and the wallet, took out the thousand dollars and gave it to me. How did you do that? I said, you don't want to know. Oh that's great, Oh man.
Mickey, Let's talk about what you're working on now, and I want to know where you get all your energy from as well. But tell me about your two projects that you're so passionate about that you're working on right now.
Oh man, this wonder a wonderful wonderul. I'm doing the singing from the heart. I took Billie Holiday, Josephine Baker Diner watching him, Hey Jackson, Bessie Smith, Dorothy Dandridge with the kid, and Lena Horn. These women made history at a time where it was unbelievable, you know, the prejudice, garbage going on, all that kind of stuff. But they still became great artists. And I put them together so they can kind of tell their stories in music and sing it from the heart. And I have a young girl who was learning, studying to be an actress artist, and she has to find out she was going to She auditioned it and it got the part, but one of these ladies, But she don't know the history of them. She could just do the part because of the writing of the script, but she's got to put the feeling in it. And so her boyfriend tells her, why don't you get your computer and look up these ladies which whatever you want to be, and study them because they went through some changes. It didn't just happen. You want to know what that's all about. And he's a white boy, she's black of Corse. And she says to him, how you know about these ladies? She said, my mother was in crazy in love with Billy Holly. She knew we call a lady they she knew all. I had to listen to that stuff all of while I was growing up, so I knew them because of my mom. And so of course the young girl took it and she starts studying. In the process of studying, of course, she'd go to a whole another trance and she would meet these ladies one at a time as they told their stories in the history. It is an incredible story and the songs that they did and why and how, and it gave her knowledge and information. So when she went back to audition for the part, she had more than just words to say. She had feeling in the whole nine yards. So that's what the show is about. So I'm bringing you to the history and whatever you do again, you got to come from the heart. Just to do it means nothing. When you bring it from the heart, it encloses and brings in everything. And that's what that show was about. And singing from the.
Heart tremendous, tremendous.
And the other piece which is special is I was given the rights to do the Azusa Revival where the Holy Spirit came down in nineteen oh six in Los Angeles on Azusa Street and William Seawall, Black Minister was in charge of the church there and his term at that place where the Holy Spirit came in and had people being healed by the thousands. And as they came in to his area, they walked into this we called your conter glory vibe, and he came in. They came in and the blind began to see, the lane began to walk. They got to the point that they would get out of the crutches. The moment they got in the feeling of that space, they would get out of their crutches, moved the wheelchairs. Unbelievable. And it went on. It's the Pentecostals we call them. And they went from a few Pentecostals to so many million of them today and all over the world. And what they would do is that I kept growing. Is once you came in and you couldn't see, and now when you leave, you go back home and you can see. Somebody will know how that happened. You tell them. So they go though something came in a wheelchairs and you come back walking. They come. People see that you can't deny that the person is walking right, They would go in. So it kept growing up every race, creed and color and look it up. A Zusa revivle called the computer. I didn't make it up. And I was called by the Japanese who owned that area. That was they owned most of the property in that area, and they were somebody in my pentecostles as well. The ministers called me in one day and asked me, Uh, they've got something they want me to take a look at. And when they brought me in, they explained what it was all about, and uh, they said, we'd like to bring this moment back. And then doing that, I'm in shock. Mind you, I had no idea what they were talk talking about. As they explained it to me, and I looked at read the books and the whole nine yards. I had to go back to church and find out from through the ministers, is this really it happened in the upper room with Christ. This was another time here on Zusa Street. And I actually went back and got rebaptized because I wanted to speak in talks, because that was just taking me to a whole other level. When I got it all together, I went back to the Japanese said for a meeting, and I said, okay, I will do this. They said, how are you going to handle this? I say, I'm gonna turn it into a musical because with the music, I can bring people into the theater then they can get the real story. They said, great. Perfect. I said to them, why did you call me? We're in Hollywood, you were in California. You got the best writers, producers and directors in the world here. Why me? And they said to me, we saw what you did with Motown and all the people you work with Afnemotown and everything you've learned to do was for this reason took my breath away. So that's how we got to a ZEUSA, which I'm working with as we speak.
Oh, Mickey, Nicky, Oh, I want to I want to wish you well on those projects. And I just have to tell you when I think of this podcast, I'm so grateful for it every day, but I really hit the jackpot talking to you, Mickey Stevenson, and I'm so blessed and so grateful and just I love talking to you.
Oh Man, pure preasure talking with you man. You know, I like to stay you know, as really realistic as possible. Somebody may sound like, wow, I got that happen, and I say, it happened because there's these are gifts that God gives us, and if we recognize that and work with them, I mean, we cannot lose, but we can win. And some of us can win greatly because we help others. I mean, that's what makes it work even more important.
Oh you're so special. I'm so appreciative, Micky, Thank you so much.
Thank you for having me.
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