Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander listeners are advised that this podcast episode contains the names of people who have died.

Thomas Keneally reflects on The Chant of Jimmie Blacksmith in conversation with his long-time friend, Stan Grant. Thomas’ 1972 Booker Prize–nominated story of a black man’s revenge against an unjust society, The Chant of Jimmie Blacksmith, was a formative novel for Stan, helping the young reporter recognise the contradictions at the heart of our national identity. Stan has written the latest instalment of the Writers on Writers series on Thomas. The two continue a long-running conversation about their body of work and friendship, and this land’s history, stories and peoples.

Please note, this episode contains references to topics such as the Stolen Generations and abuse.