This is Dana Perkins and you're listening to Switched On, the podcast brought to you by BNF. South of China, east of India north of Australia is the vast region referred to as Southeast Asia, comprised of eleven countries where an abundance of natural resources and manufacturing capacity can be found. It's important to supply chains around the world. However, recently tariffs on goods destined for the United States, including clean energy equipment, have been impacted, and several countries in the region are reacting. Closer to home. Within Southeast Asia, a transformation is taking place with high electric vehicle adoption and supportive clean energy policies. To tell us more about Southeast Asia, I'm joined by Chantanujaiswaal, who heads b and EF's India and Southeast Asia research, alongside analyst Felix Kosse. They draw from their recent research notes titled US Climate Fund Withdrawal in Perils, Indonesia's Transition, and Southeast Asia in short Energy Storage net zero Push, which b any F clients can find at BNF go on the Boomberg terminal or on BNF dot Com. All right, let's get to talking about Southeast Asia. Chantanu, thank you very much for joining today. Hey, thanks for me and Felix. Great having you on the show as well.

This is Dana Perkins and you're listening to Switched On, the podcast brought to you by BNF. South of China, east of India north of Australia is the vast region referred to as Southeast Asia, comprised of eleven countries where an abundance of natural resources and manufacturing capacity can be found. It's important to supply chains around the world. However, recently tariffs on goods destined for the United States, including clean energy equipment, have been impacted, and several countries in the region are reacting. Closer to home. Within Southeast Asia, a transformation is taking place with high electric vehicle adoption and supportive clean energy policies. To tell us more about Southeast Asia, I'm joined by Chantanujaiswaal, who heads b and EF's India and Southeast Asia research, alongside analyst Felix Kosse. They draw from their recent research notes titled US Climate Fund Withdrawal in Perils, Indonesia's Transition, and Southeast Asia in short Energy Storage net zero Push, which b any F clients can find at BNF go on the Boomberg terminal or on BNF dot Com. All right, let's get to talking about Southeast Asia. Chantanu, thank you very much for joining today. Hey, thanks for me and Felix. Great having you on the show as well.

Thanks for inviting me.

Thanks for inviting me.

So we're going to have a conversation today about Southeast Asia as a region. But of course every region is comprised of individual countries and subregions that have their own fascinating story to tell, and we at BNF are always trying to find opportunities as the world is changing, and certainly when we think about a lot of the industries covered at BNF, we're thinking about global trade, we're thinking about manufacturing, supply chains and everything actually across the value chain for the energy transition, and there are a number of countries here that are either changing the way regulations work and creating for an opportunities for investment, or maybe particularly blessed with different natural resources which are really critical for the energy transition. So let's get into what each of these countries. We're not going to have time for all of them, but what some of the countries in Southeast Asia really have to offer for the future of the transition. So let's start with definitions. There are eleven countries broadly considered as Southeast Asia. Can we go through and just make sure everyone is in agreement that we're talking about the same set of countries? What are they?

So we're going to have a conversation today about Southeast Asia as a region. But of course every region is comprised of individual countries and subregions that have their own fascinating story to tell, and we at BNF are always trying to find opportunities as the world is changing, and certainly when we think about a lot of the industries covered at BNF, we're thinking about global trade, we're thinking about manufacturing, supply chains and everything actually across the value chain for the energy transition, and there are a number of countries here that are either changing the way regulations work and creating for an opportunities for investment, or maybe particularly blessed with different natural resources which are really critical for the energy transition. So let's get into what each of these countries. We're not going to have time for all of them, but what some of the countries in Southeast Asia really have to offer for the future of the transition. So let's start with definitions. There are eleven countries broadly considered as Southeast Asia. Can we go through and just make sure everyone is in agreement that we're talking about the same set of countries? What are they?

Thanks Sana, and thanks for starting off with that very important question. And I say that because when I started looking at Southeast Asia, when I started covering Southeast Asia, it was very difficult for me to understand their region because before I started working in the region, I always thought of it as one coherent block and really didn't understand the local nuances. But if you look at Southeast Asia, there are eleven countries in the region. The popular of this entire region is about seven hundred million, and if you just look at the breadth of the region, it is as big as Europe. It's a massive region. But we at BNF we try to focus mostly on six countries in the region, and they are Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Vietnam, Singapore and Thailand. If you look at all of these six countries, then I tried a lot, but there is no one way to categorize these countries into different buckets. What usually needs to be done is to apply different lenses and then see these countries from the lens of language, geography, natural resources, economic output, politics, etc. All of these countries, they do have some common attributes, but they also compete with themselves. The region is actually laden with natural resources, but it's spread out across vatest countries. There countries which are rich in oil and gas deposits. There are countries which are rich in coal deposits. Then there are countries which have different renewers energy sources distributed amongst them while they are between the tropics, and solar is definitely something we just common to all the countries. But then there is wind resources which are in very small pockets in Vietnam or Philippines.

Thanks Sana, and thanks for starting off with that very important question. And I say that because when I started looking at Southeast Asia, when I started covering Southeast Asia, it was very difficult for me to understand their region because before I started working in the region, I always thought of it as one coherent block and really didn't understand the local nuances. But if you look at Southeast Asia, there are eleven countries in the region. The popular of this entire region is about seven hundred million, and if you just look at the breadth of the region, it is as big as Europe. It's a massive region. But we at BNF we try to focus mostly on six countries in the region, and they are Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Vietnam, Singapore and Thailand. If you look at all of these six countries, then I tried a lot, but there is no one way to categorize these countries into different buckets. What usually needs to be done is to apply different lenses and then see these countries from the lens of language, geography, natural resources, economic output, politics, etc. All of these countries, they do have some common attributes, but they also compete with themselves. The region is actually laden with natural resources, but it's spread out across vatest countries. There countries which are rich in oil and gas deposits. There are countries which are rich in coal deposits. Then there are countries which have different renewers energy sources distributed amongst them while they are between the tropics, and solar is definitely something we just common to all the countries. But then there is wind resources which are in very small pockets in Vietnam or Philippines.

So I mean, what I'm hearing from you is there are sort of two conversations that we're going to have which have to do first of all, with how countries are investing in their own domestic energy supply and in many respects adopting best available technologies and really thinking about a really interesting grid that might be much more diverse than other parts of the world. On the other side, there are the natural resources that exist and you know, as I referenced at the very beginning of the show, things that we need for other parts of the energy transition and will ultimately be exported to places all over the world. Can you talk about some of the natural resources that are so critical that are found in this part of the world.

So I mean, what I'm hearing from you is there are sort of two conversations that we're going to have which have to do first of all, with how countries are investing in their own domestic energy supply and in many respects adopting best available technologies and really thinking about a really interesting grid that might be much more diverse than other parts of the world. On the other side, there are the natural resources that exist and you know, as I referenced at the very beginning of the show, things that we need for other parts of the energy transition and will ultimately be exported to places all over the world. Can you talk about some of the natural resources that are so critical that are found in this part of the world.

So the region is actually quite blessed with natural resources. It includes all oil, gas, coal, copper, gold, nickel, aluminum, titanium, you just name it. Starting with the Militia for example, it is one of the biggest producers of natural gas. We have countries which are also producing goal in big quantities, such as Indonesia. It is also the country that houses forty percent of the world's liquor reserves, and in addition to that, it also has significant quantities of rock, copper, and box site, whereas Vietnam and Myanmar, they possess a big chunk of the world's rare earth materials.

So the region is actually quite blessed with natural resources. It includes all oil, gas, coal, copper, gold, nickel, aluminum, titanium, you just name it. Starting with the Militia for example, it is one of the biggest producers of natural gas. We have countries which are also producing goal in big quantities, such as Indonesia. It is also the country that houses forty percent of the world's liquor reserves, and in addition to that, it also has significant quantities of rock, copper, and box site, whereas Vietnam and Myanmar, they possess a big chunk of the world's rare earth materials.

So we did a show last year where we were talking about how the United States had raised tariffs on solar imports, and there are a number of countries in Southeast Asia that were really involved in the solar manufacturing and parts of the supply chain. So what I want to understand is beyond what's happened most recently regarding increases in tariffs for various countries all over the world, How have those that were part of twenty twenty three in the first half twenty twenty four. How have those tariffs impacted solar in that region? What markets are they looking at?

So we did a show last year where we were talking about how the United States had raised tariffs on solar imports, and there are a number of countries in Southeast Asia that were really involved in the solar manufacturing and parts of the supply chain. So what I want to understand is beyond what's happened most recently regarding increases in tariffs for various countries all over the world, How have those that were part of twenty twenty three in the first half twenty twenty four. How have those tariffs impacted solar in that region? What markets are they looking at?

Last year, the US Department of Commerce, they introduced some preliminary determinations for anti dumping and counterweilling duties.

Last year, the US Department of Commerce, they introduced some preliminary determinations for anti dumping and counterweilling duties.

In the region.

In the region.

If you look at the total imports of solar cells and modules in two e twenty three and to eight twenty four, then about eighty percent of all of these were exported from four countries in Southeast Asia Cambodia, Thaighland, Vietnam and Malaysia. And the tariffs which were introduced they ranged between fifteen percent to about sixty percent, and they have had quite a bit of an impact over here. So some Chinese manufacturers that we know of in these four countries, they have cut down their production and open facilities in Indonesia and Lawers which do not have a tariff right now. In a way, what manufacturers are doing, if they are trying to dodge tariffs from one country and moving out to other, it's a game of waka mohle. I think that they are trying to play over here. What we also see I think is that battery makers DA might also want to follow what Soudar manufacturers are doing and try to touch their talents and move their manufactually location to countries which are currently except from it.

If you look at the total imports of solar cells and modules in two e twenty three and to eight twenty four, then about eighty percent of all of these were exported from four countries in Southeast Asia Cambodia, Thaighland, Vietnam and Malaysia. And the tariffs which were introduced they ranged between fifteen percent to about sixty percent, and they have had quite a bit of an impact over here. So some Chinese manufacturers that we know of in these four countries, they have cut down their production and open facilities in Indonesia and Lawers which do not have a tariff right now. In a way, what manufacturers are doing, if they are trying to dodge tariffs from one country and moving out to other, it's a game of waka mohle. I think that they are trying to play over here. What we also see I think is that battery makers DA might also want to follow what Soudar manufacturers are doing and try to touch their talents and move their manufactually location to countries which are currently except from it.

Okay, So bringing us up to speed with what's happening then right now, there has been a lot of discussion regarding tariffs and it's changing almost daily at the moment. But when it comes to the US, with cuts in US funding overseas and with raising tariffs for various countries, how much of an impact has this had on some of the countries in Southeast Asia?

Okay, So bringing us up to speed with what's happening then right now, there has been a lot of discussion regarding tariffs and it's changing almost daily at the moment. But when it comes to the US, with cuts in US funding overseas and with raising tariffs for various countries, how much of an impact has this had on some of the countries in Southeast Asia?

So far, we think the Trauma administration has not targeted any particular southist Asian countries specifically, but as you frightly pointed out, there's a huge element of uncertainty here going on. We do know that President Trump quite dislikes thread deficits with the United States, and if we look at the top twenty countries with whom the US has a thread deficit, there are actually five southast Asian countries on the top twenty list, with Vietnam in particular sitting on number four, with the deficit of about one hundred billion dollars as of twenty twenty three. Generally, southis Asian governments are cautious now and adopting a with n C approach now with regards to the cuts in overseas funding. The most tangible impact for South East Asia so far is definitely the US departure from jet P Indonesia and Vietnam. Jet P or CHESS Energy Transition Partnership is a program that were meant to mobilize roughly twenty one and fifteen billion the dollars for Indonesia and Vietnam, respectively, to accelerate the energy transition in those countries. Now, developed countries commit roughly half of the money in the form of grants, concessional loans, commercial loans, and development banking guarantees, while the rest are supposed to come from private financing. So we think the impact of the US living jet P would be fed relatively more strongly in Indonesia. That's because before it left, the US was actually a co leader of jet B Indonesia alongside Japan. In fact, it was the biggest single country funder, contributing about a fifth of the program's eleven billion public funding plot and furthermore, on top of that, another fifth of JETP Indonesia's pub financing comes from the countries Energy Transition Mechanism or ETM, which is a pool of public and private funds meant to finance early retirement of coal plants in emerging economies. The ETM is capitalized by the WORD Bank, Asian Development Bank, and the Climate Investment Funds, all of which the US is a major contributor to. So if the US ends up cutting funding to these institutions, then jet B Indonesia's funding may diminish. Further Still, for Vietnam, roughly thirteen percent of Jetpea's public funding was supposed to come from the US. The good news here is we have seen new climate and REGI related investment plans coming from countries like Japan and the UK recently to Vietnam. Vietnam's government is pushing renewables development quite strongly, as indicated by the latest Power Development Plan, which contains plenty of win solar and battery storage. Now, one thing I'd like to note here is that after the US announced their departure from JETP, there have been assurances coming from other countries like Japan, the EU and European country that the JETP programs would continue However, at the same time, we also know that Europe would need to channel hundreds of billions of dollars into defense spending in the near future. So it remains to be seen whether they will be able to fill the hole that the US has left in terms of climate financing well.

So far, we think the Trauma administration has not targeted any particular southist Asian countries specifically, but as you frightly pointed out, there's a huge element of uncertainty here going on. We do know that President Trump quite dislikes thread deficits with the United States, and if we look at the top twenty countries with whom the US has a thread deficit, there are actually five southast Asian countries on the top twenty list, with Vietnam in particular sitting on number four, with the deficit of about one hundred billion dollars as of twenty twenty three. Generally, southis Asian governments are cautious now and adopting a with n C approach now with regards to the cuts in overseas funding. The most tangible impact for South East Asia so far is definitely the US departure from jet P Indonesia and Vietnam. Jet P or CHESS Energy Transition Partnership is a program that were meant to mobilize roughly twenty one and fifteen billion the dollars for Indonesia and Vietnam, respectively, to accelerate the energy transition in those countries. Now, developed countries commit roughly half of the money in the form of grants, concessional loans, commercial loans, and development banking guarantees, while the rest are supposed to come from private financing. So we think the impact of the US living jet P would be fed relatively more strongly in Indonesia. That's because before it left, the US was actually a co leader of jet B Indonesia alongside Japan. In fact, it was the biggest single country funder, contributing about a fifth of the program's eleven billion public funding plot and furthermore, on top of that, another fifth of JETP Indonesia's pub financing comes from the countries Energy Transition Mechanism or ETM, which is a pool of public and private funds meant to finance early retirement of coal plants in emerging economies. The ETM is capitalized by the WORD Bank, Asian Development Bank, and the Climate Investment Funds, all of which the US is a major contributor to. So if the US ends up cutting funding to these institutions, then jet B Indonesia's funding may diminish. Further Still, for Vietnam, roughly thirteen percent of Jetpea's public funding was supposed to come from the US. The good news here is we have seen new climate and REGI related investment plans coming from countries like Japan and the UK recently to Vietnam. Vietnam's government is pushing renewables development quite strongly, as indicated by the latest Power Development Plan, which contains plenty of win solar and battery storage. Now, one thing I'd like to note here is that after the US announced their departure from JETP, there have been assurances coming from other countries like Japan, the EU and European country that the JETP programs would continue However, at the same time, we also know that Europe would need to channel hundreds of billions of dollars into defense spending in the near future. So it remains to be seen whether they will be able to fill the hole that the US has left in terms of climate financing well.

And have these assurances come in the form of actual financing as of yet or have they mostly been statements.

And have these assurances come in the form of actual financing as of yet or have they mostly been statements.

Mostly they've been statements. There have been some plan funding, So Japan, for example, have committed twenty billion dollars for Vietnam, and the Development financing arm of the UK government has said they will infest about two point eight billion to countries in Southeast Asia, not just Indonesia and Vietnam.

Mostly they've been statements. There have been some plan funding, So Japan, for example, have committed twenty billion dollars for Vietnam, and the Development financing arm of the UK government has said they will infest about two point eight billion to countries in Southeast Asia, not just Indonesia and Vietnam.

So Southeast Asia is full of a lot of countries that have very different but important natural resources that are part of the energy transition as well as manufacturing capacity. So what I want to do is kind of deal rapid fire through a couple of these countries and talk about the things that have really stood out to you and your research over the past year and kind of what has been the most interesting thing. Let's start and the most populous country in the region, which is Indonesia, which is also the fourth most populous country in the world. What stood out to you most about where they are in terms of opportunities for investors and for really where they are in the energy transition as a manufacturer of really critical equipment.

So Southeast Asia is full of a lot of countries that have very different but important natural resources that are part of the energy transition as well as manufacturing capacity. So what I want to do is kind of deal rapid fire through a couple of these countries and talk about the things that have really stood out to you and your research over the past year and kind of what has been the most interesting thing. Let's start and the most populous country in the region, which is Indonesia, which is also the fourth most populous country in the world. What stood out to you most about where they are in terms of opportunities for investors and for really where they are in the energy transition as a manufacturer of really critical equipment.

So I think in Indonesia, I think that's most exciting is that Indonesia is finally becoming quite good at not just mining and extracting its resources, but also processing them at adding value that it can capture instead of just exporting row minerals to other countries, which is what tends to happen in the past. Since the past approximately I think five to seven years or so, Indonesia has aggressively been pursuing this policy called mineral downstreaming, and what it means is basically, Indonesia wants the row minerals that are mined in its territory to be refined, process and then made into a final product also within Indonesia, and then those final products can get exported so that Indonesia gets more value economic value from the products. One good example for this is Indoniesia is no longer just mining its fast nickel wealth, but now it's building refining plants. It's starting to build a strong battery and ev supply chain within the country, and we have seen many investors coming from China, South Korea. They are building battery plants here, electric vehicle plants here. And what Indoniesia has been planning for a few years is finally starting to turn into reality that it is able to produce electric vehicles and batteries using local materials. We didn't region.

So I think in Indonesia, I think that's most exciting is that Indonesia is finally becoming quite good at not just mining and extracting its resources, but also processing them at adding value that it can capture instead of just exporting row minerals to other countries, which is what tends to happen in the past. Since the past approximately I think five to seven years or so, Indonesia has aggressively been pursuing this policy called mineral downstreaming, and what it means is basically, Indonesia wants the row minerals that are mined in its territory to be refined, process and then made into a final product also within Indonesia, and then those final products can get exported so that Indonesia gets more value economic value from the products. One good example for this is Indoniesia is no longer just mining its fast nickel wealth, but now it's building refining plants. It's starting to build a strong battery and ev supply chain within the country, and we have seen many investors coming from China, South Korea. They are building battery plants here, electric vehicle plants here. And what Indoniesia has been planning for a few years is finally starting to turn into reality that it is able to produce electric vehicles and batteries using local materials. We didn't region.

Okay, so let's now go to Vietnam, which is a country that is installing a lot of renewable energy capacity domestically. Why is that happening and what is the most interesting thing happening in Vietnam at the moment.

Okay, so let's now go to Vietnam, which is a country that is installing a lot of renewable energy capacity domestically. Why is that happening and what is the most interesting thing happening in Vietnam at the moment.

The most interesting thing happening in Vietnam right now is the policy push towards having more corporate cream power purchases. Just has been a big manufacturing hub for major companies, but has lacked the incentives that some of the other countries can provide. But it is blessed with plenty of human resources and it is one of the leaders in Southeast Asia for having policies which encourage investments from private sector participants into renewable energy. In fact, looking at Vietnam now, all major countries are also starting to come up with their own direct power purchaser remian policies, which will encourage more renewables to be built out just for corporate purchases.

The most interesting thing happening in Vietnam right now is the policy push towards having more corporate cream power purchases. Just has been a big manufacturing hub for major companies, but has lacked the incentives that some of the other countries can provide. But it is blessed with plenty of human resources and it is one of the leaders in Southeast Asia for having policies which encourage investments from private sector participants into renewable energy. In fact, looking at Vietnam now, all major countries are also starting to come up with their own direct power purchaser remian policies, which will encourage more renewables to be built out just for corporate purchases.

So speaking of leaders PENAF does an assessment of renewable energy investment across developing countries all over the world and number two has been the Philippines this last year. Why is the Philippines such an exciting place for investment at the moment?

So speaking of leaders PENAF does an assessment of renewable energy investment across developing countries all over the world and number two has been the Philippines this last year. Why is the Philippines such an exciting place for investment at the moment?

Philippino is one of the most exciting places in Southeast Asia because it has the most liberalized power market in the country. While there have been some restrictions in the past, the country is trying to overcome some of those bottlenecks and have more private sector participation. We have seen a lot of investments and batteries. In fact, Philippines is the only country in the Southeast Asia region where some meaningful amount of batteries are being deployed on the grid, all because of its liberal power market, which enables batteries to play a role in the an sile services market. There are big companies, big powerhouse chiant companies that are in the region which are also developing projects not only in the country, but now are expanding outwards as well.

Philippino is one of the most exciting places in Southeast Asia because it has the most liberalized power market in the country. While there have been some restrictions in the past, the country is trying to overcome some of those bottlenecks and have more private sector participation. We have seen a lot of investments and batteries. In fact, Philippines is the only country in the Southeast Asia region where some meaningful amount of batteries are being deployed on the grid, all because of its liberal power market, which enables batteries to play a role in the an sile services market. There are big companies, big powerhouse chiant companies that are in the region which are also developing projects not only in the country, but now are expanding outwards as well.

So geographically limited but certainly ambitious when it comes to emissions targets. Is Singapore, can you talk us through what their emissions targets are and what their path is to actually reaching them. Is really a place to set the example for other parts of the world on how to go after really ambitious targets.

So geographically limited but certainly ambitious when it comes to emissions targets. Is Singapore, can you talk us through what their emissions targets are and what their path is to actually reaching them. Is really a place to set the example for other parts of the world on how to go after really ambitious targets.

So Singapore is one of the smallest countries in the region, but it has massive power requirements. It is one of the developed countries in the region which has the ability to pay for expensive power as well. Currently, it produces ninety four percent of its electricity from gas fed power plants and very little of it comes from deniber energy. But the Singapore Energy Market Authority wants to change that. It is trying four different strategies to decognize the country. First of all, it wants to ramp up solar deployment across the country, especially rooftop solar projects, but there are limitations because of the overall physical land that Singapore has. But in the long term, the country wants to increase newer energy imports from various neighboring countries. Currently, Singapore imports power from Malaysia, but it's in very small megawatt scale capacities, but we are going to see kigawatt scale capacities come online very soon, especially in neighboring Indonesia, where three point five gigawatsoft projects could be powered up in the near future.

So Singapore is one of the smallest countries in the region, but it has massive power requirements. It is one of the developed countries in the region which has the ability to pay for expensive power as well. Currently, it produces ninety four percent of its electricity from gas fed power plants and very little of it comes from deniber energy. But the Singapore Energy Market Authority wants to change that. It is trying four different strategies to decognize the country. First of all, it wants to ramp up solar deployment across the country, especially rooftop solar projects, but there are limitations because of the overall physical land that Singapore has. But in the long term, the country wants to increase newer energy imports from various neighboring countries. Currently, Singapore imports power from Malaysia, but it's in very small megawatt scale capacities, but we are going to see kigawatt scale capacities come online very soon, especially in neighboring Indonesia, where three point five gigawatsoft projects could be powered up in the near future.

So what's really interesting about this is that Singapore's plans for meeting their net zero targets is actually working with other Southeast Asian countries as a block in order to make sure that power production is clean and it's being piped from the right places where that might be happening. So their physical limitations actually aren't limitations at all if you see them as a member of Southeast Asia.

So what's really interesting about this is that Singapore's plans for meeting their net zero targets is actually working with other Southeast Asian countries as a block in order to make sure that power production is clean and it's being piped from the right places where that might be happening. So their physical limitations actually aren't limitations at all if you see them as a member of Southeast Asia.

I think I think the idea would be that the new power demand that is created in the country that could be met by renewables or cleaner sources of energy from these neighboring countries, because it also has a target for NED zero by twenty fifty, so they need to do something.

I think I think the idea would be that the new power demand that is created in the country that could be met by renewables or cleaner sources of energy from these neighboring countries, because it also has a target for NED zero by twenty fifty, so they need to do something.

So while we started the show by saying all of these countries are so different and they have different policies and different natural resources, and so the dynamics so we're going to talk about are different, I think we've seen that is certainly the case as we have gone country by country, I'm going to now ask you to bring your thoughts back to Southeast Asia as a region. So when we think about assion as a group of countries, so the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, so this is Indonesia, Vietnam, Laos, Brunei, Thailand, Me and mar the Philippines, Cambodia, Singapore and Malaysia. There are discussions at the moment about interconnectors and having a grid that would actually create connections between these countries. Where does that currently stand and how might we see a power network that actually does see this region as something that is cohesive.

So while we started the show by saying all of these countries are so different and they have different policies and different natural resources, and so the dynamics so we're going to talk about are different, I think we've seen that is certainly the case as we have gone country by country, I'm going to now ask you to bring your thoughts back to Southeast Asia as a region. So when we think about assion as a group of countries, so the Association of Southeast Asian Nations, so this is Indonesia, Vietnam, Laos, Brunei, Thailand, Me and mar the Philippines, Cambodia, Singapore and Malaysia. There are discussions at the moment about interconnectors and having a grid that would actually create connections between these countries. Where does that currently stand and how might we see a power network that actually does see this region as something that is cohesive.

So the idea of having interconnected grid in Southeast Asia or ic and region is not new. And the critics, if you talk to them right now, they'd argue that the countries in Southeast Asia, they have aspired to build a regional power since the nineteen nineties, but the progress has been very slow for most of the time since then. It was a good idea even then to have interconnected grid, but perhaps because of energy security concerns, many countries, including Singapore, considered it was best to generate power within the country. But recently we have seen a much stronger momentum because renewable energy has become much cheaper and countries realized that deploying more clean power can help them attract more foreign investments, especially in sectors like data centers, industry, and mining. And Singapore is in the heart of this discussion right now because it's a small country with very few resources. It imports almost everything, and so why not electricity as well. Building high capacity grid connections between Singapore and its neighbors would be a very important step in realizing in ACA and white power grid and this would boost network stability and reliability in the region as well as it will help intermittent renewals grow in the coming decades as demand for renewbrielogy increases not only in Singapore but across the region as well.

So the idea of having interconnected grid in Southeast Asia or ic and region is not new. And the critics, if you talk to them right now, they'd argue that the countries in Southeast Asia, they have aspired to build a regional power since the nineteen nineties, but the progress has been very slow for most of the time since then. It was a good idea even then to have interconnected grid, but perhaps because of energy security concerns, many countries, including Singapore, considered it was best to generate power within the country. But recently we have seen a much stronger momentum because renewable energy has become much cheaper and countries realized that deploying more clean power can help them attract more foreign investments, especially in sectors like data centers, industry, and mining. And Singapore is in the heart of this discussion right now because it's a small country with very few resources. It imports almost everything, and so why not electricity as well. Building high capacity grid connections between Singapore and its neighbors would be a very important step in realizing in ACA and white power grid and this would boost network stability and reliability in the region as well as it will help intermittent renewals grow in the coming decades as demand for renewbrielogy increases not only in Singapore but across the region as well.

So this is a dynamic region that is looking at tariffs but actually finding ways to ensure that the manufacturing equipment that they're making is still very much a part of the energy transition. I'm sure there's a lot to watch, and as we see global supply chains maintain this level of dynamism, I'm sure Southeast Asia will stay front and center. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. On your research and for taking us around the region and telling us some of the most interesting things happening. Shantanu Felix, thank you so much for joining the show today.

So this is a dynamic region that is looking at tariffs but actually finding ways to ensure that the manufacturing equipment that they're making is still very much a part of the energy transition. I'm sure there's a lot to watch, and as we see global supply chains maintain this level of dynamism, I'm sure Southeast Asia will stay front and center. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. On your research and for taking us around the region and telling us some of the most interesting things happening. Shantanu Felix, thank you so much for joining the show today.

Well, thanks Jenna, it was great to be on the show as well.

Well, thanks Jenna, it was great to be on the show as well.

Thank you, Thanks Lena, and this was fun.

Thank you, Thanks Lena, and this was fun.

Today's episode of Switched On was produced by Cam Gray with production assistance from Kamala Shelling. Bloomberg NEIF is a service provided by Bloomberg Finance LP and its affiliates. This recording does not constitute, nor should it be construed as investment, a vice, investment recommendations, or a recommendation as to an investment or other strategy. Bloomberg ANIF should not be considered as information sufficient upon which to base an investment decision. Neither Bloomberg Finance LP nor any of its affiliates makes any representation or warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of the information contained in this recording, and any liability as a result of this recording is expressly disclaimed.

Today's episode of Switched On was produced by Cam Gray with production assistance from Kamala Shelling. Bloomberg NEIF is a service provided by Bloomberg Finance LP and its affiliates. This recording does not constitute, nor should it be construed as investment, a vice, investment recommendations, or a recommendation as to an investment or other strategy. Bloomberg ANIF should not be considered as information sufficient upon which to base an investment decision. Neither Bloomberg Finance LP nor any of its affiliates makes any representation or warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of the information contained in this recording, and any liability as a result of this recording is expressly disclaimed.