Surviving El Chapo: The Twins Who Brought Down A Drug LordCOVID hits the prisons so the twins can’t see their families for months. Jay spends 56 days in hospital. Finally, after 12 years in prison, the twins are released on the November 5th, 2020.
H everyone then your prison go on. Like they had a lot of struggles.
It's hard not to attack clear in your life, especially when you have identity questions or you're not we used to be, disassociate yourself with so much of your pass and then you know, for me, now I'm here, but now I'm a home new set of issues.
Hey, it's the Descent and I'm Charlie Webster. This is Surviving ol chapter The Twins who brought down a Dubord Season two.
M h.
The Floor Is Twins spent eight months trying to get out Chappo on tape while they were running drug for him in Mexico. They handed themselves into authorities and then spent the next ten years cooperating for the government in prison.
Then it was two long days on the witness stand.
Finally El Chapel was sent to prison for life plus thirty years.
Everything the twins had worked award for over a decade trying to turn their lives around culminated at this moment, and it was finally over. For the first time in their lives they could look forward to. They're happily ever after and on his life outside of the world of peddling, kilos or the bars of a prison cell. But what does that actually mean For two people whose introduction to the drug life began at seven years old? The cooperation was over and at thirty eight, the brothers only had two years left until they would finally be free.
The government no longer needed them, so their protection as high profile witnesses was over. After what they had gone through over ten years. Another two might see music, But there was one challenge. None of us saw it coming.
COVID.
Who was the last two years any different?
Fear miserable because they continue to fight to go home, and then COVID hit We're in twenty four hours lockdown. We'reusually unlockdown in death aspect, and we'll let your out when we think it's safe, and you're like, how could they do that? It was kind of like the ridiculous to think that we've been on segregated you know, you know, it's set apart from the society for safety reasons and that.
COVID hit right, But we're COVID free.
We never been around anyone exposed to coviche, So the only people that have been exposed to go with are the cards and that's the only way to get it in. Is that they're going to bring it into us. So they get to go home and every day and come back, go home, come back. But where you're stuck in the cell and you're back captive again.
You know, you're you're hungry, you know, you're just in that stall, you know.
And I'll write letters to my wife feeling miserable about what she was dealing with on her home.
I can't explain to you what it's like to.
Do that, like to write letters, writing so many letters. And if I didn't get the mail, like didn't write, I feel so sick. My anxiety would be so horrible. If I didn't hear from her, they could least you know that she was okay, the kids were okay. And then the worst part is that these pieces of shit he old us, like.
Do you have to write a book every day?
Like, man, do your fucking job, man, you know, pick my fucking mail, put in the mailbax, Like we don't want to read it, Like are you serious? We're fucking log down in cord, we have no access to the phone, we can't call that family. You're gonna fucking talk shit about me right in a letter? This is my fucking right to write a letter for my children and or worried you can't call home and check and learn my mom and everyone. I wasn't allowed to see them talk like octour for one hour behind like that plastic shower.
Prisoners nationwide was stopped from seeing any visitors from March twenty twenty, when COVID first hit the world. When Pete was finally able to have his family visit seven months later, it had to be done through a plastic shower curtain, and their time together was limited to an hour on the other side of the car. COVID had hit Jay's prison early on, so Viole applied for compassionate release, hoping he would be allowed to serve his final months under home confinement. The compassionate release was denied. The twins were not eligible for home confinements for safety reasons.
The last few months were seen longer than then. Some of the time I was like there, and you know, with COVID, it's just kind of like made some everything a little bit harder, and any other situation, I would have been home already. Like because of my situation, I wasn't like privilege to some of the opportunities that regular inmates had like a happy house or home confinement or anything like that. So any other time would have been home already worked.
But we filed for compassionate release just because in the prison he was at, COVID was already there and there was already like inmates and staff that had it.
And this was you know, early on, right, you don't know nothing about COVID.
Yeah, it was scary.
Around the same time, Jay started to feel sick, but none of the prison gods believed him. They thought he was faking his illness because his compassionate release had been denied.
It was hard, It was I was so thankful for not being sick, for being healthy most of my time in prison.
It was probably one of the hardest times of just not knowing, especially the whole time that he was in prison.
It's like we were there every weekend, and.
Then when COVID hit, we couldn't see him for the last year, and he ended up getting sick during that time.
You know, for me to get to that point and then being sick, especially during COVID, just made everyth even harder.
They must have thought that because it was around the same time that we filed for compassion release that he was like almost making it up until like his whole face like blew up and his throat, like his airwaves ended up closing on him, so he was almost incompatitated by the time they took him out of the prison. That's how the infection got so bad, and then that's how he ended up getting acceptis.
I can imagine that must have been so horrific for you. What was it like for you being in a settle and struggling to breathe and not being held.
I think just being like helpless in the cell. I just like it got to a point where I couldn't you know, like I'm shaking, Like I can't even tell you, like what that last week was like, because you're in pain, and I'm just lost.
Jay called me one day he couldn't like even speak because his face and his like everything was so swollen, like even when he was speaking, like he I couldn't really understand him.
And I got into this whole rant that.
He needs to sign out of the program just so that way they can take him to a regular prison, so that way he had the right to go to a hospital.
You know, I was in panet, desperate and I was training everything, and I guess it was getting to a point where I was like not well, and you know, they mean people around me are just trying to take care of me. And I just don't even recall. I just know that an officer doing his rounds and night saw me and I was unrecognizable at this point. I was like he saw me, and he saw me, and were your face and that he saw me, He's like, hey, like oh my something that you know. I just couldn't even like I was taking an oxygen. I don't recall. I do know that they carried me out myself. They put me in an ambulance, and I remember the doctors being really upset, like this doesn't happen in a day, you know, just because like what, why why wasn't he here sooner? This doesn't happen a day or two days. It's been going on for a long period of time. This is not acceptable, you know. I'm just like at this point, just like listen, fix me, you know, do whatever you have to do.
Transfer him to another hospital for intensive care. Yeah, another hospital, And.
I guess they just they got lost the first few days that those hospital. But is just not being able to talk to my family or know from them. You can't communicate so and they can't be there.
They didn't like even know what was going on with him, like if he was okay, if he was you know, alive. We just knew that it was really really bad because like in a prison like that, when it comes to like security purposes, they don't take you out to the hospital unless.
You're like almost dying.
So for me to know that, because Jay has to be moved with marshals and it's like this big, it takes a lot of work to move him to a hospital.
So it was devastating.
Not being able to know what was going on and speaking to the attorneys and trying to find out if my husband was okay, because I'm like, just tell me that he's not in a coma, tell me he's you know stable, tell me something, and they couldn't.
And I want to.
Direct access to his doctors. I needed some type of line of communication just to know he was okay. I didn't know need to know what has what he was at. I just needed to know that, you know, he was breathing.
You know.
He spent fifty six days in the hospital. He had three surgeries. I think Yeah, it was hard. Like you know, you're alone, right, you're in the shoe like people you spend time in the shoe and then like solitaries like that's solitude is is hard, but being sick and kind of helpless, helpless being in the hospital where you have no one to like care for your nurture, you.
Your shackle to a bad Yeah, I.
Have a shackle. Like that's hard. I do remember like once I started like feeling like a little bit better, like I was being in I was in pain. I had too going down like in my throat and so I couldn't speak, and I remember that's when you really feel that lone. It's like it's you know, I was to have all these like thoughts about wow, like when you're like not conscious or when you're in those situations, that's when you look for that nurturing mom right as a baby, like I remember just having those feeling like like wow, this is why marriage and family is so important. You're supposed to have someone, you're supposed to have each other. And I think that it's just kind of like to me was like again just a reminder right of what it's like to be alone, you know, and when you when you're in those situations, you wonder like this is gonna I'm gonna die alone, Like this is what's gonna be like, so kind of going back to those times. So just going through all that and not having my family, not having being able to talk to them, that was very hard cause I'm a very like I dependent on my family, dependent on my wife. I'm a social person, and just not being able to talk and just be inter paining, just kind of just keeping it to yourself, which a lot of people might think, well, a lot of people keep thesearch of I just thanks to my wife and thanks for me having a twin brother, I never had to keep something to myself that was foreign to me that I'm kind of suffering alone in a way.
Jay got an infection which led to sepsis. Because he was left without treatment for so long, he spent fifty six days in hospital before he was eventually transferred back to prison, but he didn't stay there for long. By the time he got back, he only had a few weeks left until he was released. The twins were able to get two years and two months taken off their sentence for good behavior, which is the maximum a federal inmate can earn off their sentence for staying out of trouble. It was around fifteen percent. Because they received the same sentence, they were released on the same day. When they first went to prison, they spent eight months in the Shoe. Now twelve years later they would go to the Shoe for the last time. Because of COVID, prisoners had to spend two weeks quarantined in the Shoe before they left. On November fifth, twenty twenty, it was time to go home. Jay was first out.
What was it like for you when you came out of prison? What was that day? What happened on that day? I think it was so real. That was that was like for sure, Like I couldn't even course, I didn't sleep, And as soon as the doors opened, everybody came to my you know, they have been saying goodbye, and you know, people came just give me letters and and I still couldn't believe. It was emotional, believe or not. I left a lot of good people behind that. I think that you had a a lot of relationships, yeah, for sure. And I think, yeah, absolutely, I think that I guess I think I used to just having me right as a positive, like let me come to you for advice or you know, and just were just like be there for them, and and I did worry about somewhere like them, what are they gonna do without me? And you know, I made a really good friend and I was with him for ten years. He was my selling and I knew he needed me and he was there for me too, Like I remember, I used to go through them hard times and I went through a hard situation with my family and like we're in the cell and he just came and hug me, and I remember like just being an emotional and he was like one of those tough men like, oh, I'm not gonna cry and I'm not gonna And then when it was time for me to go, like that day, he was like he cried. He was like, what am I gonna do without you? And it's weird because this individual is famous for how many brothers he has. And I remember he said, I need to tell you something, like I never had the relationship with my own brothers that I've had with you at and I'm really gonna like I'm really gonna miss you, and I'm happy that you're going home. Man, you deserve it. It was emotional you think about it. He was in my life every day for ten years. That was as long as my run. So all those people that meant to meet something in the street that I knew for within those ten years or sometimes less, that I felt close to. You just could imagine what it was like for me to be with just you know, with him for ten years. And he did have a day to come home at that time. It was four years, and you know there's people either that were not coming home soon or not coming home at all. So it didn't kind of weigh. I mean it's like bittersly, like you know, I waited for this day for so long. I'm more worried about them, like you're overdoing it.
You know.
He would like say that, like nah, I said, you guys aren'ta be all right? You know, I just kind of give him a those speech because I'm right hugged them and did you give him a little speech? Yeah? What did you say? I thank them for everything because I think that you depend. That's your family, and I'm a family man. We have our own little group where it's like that you kind of live with every day that you depend. You formed this bond and I had begged the staff. They're like, please come get me early. You know, like, don't take your time. You know you're gonna go home with you. We're gonna be here at eight. And they said, your wife is not gonna be on time. We're not doing that. I said, listen, yes she is, I said, listen. I waited a long time for this, please, And they came from me early. They came probably a little bit before six am, and they let me say goodbite everybody, and just walking down the hallway, I just couldn't. That was emotional for sure, like goose toumps all on my body. Just even when it was time for me to sign off paperwork, I was like, wow, this is really gonna happen, and uh, I'll never forget. Like after I signed the paperwork, they're like, go ahead, call your wife, see if she's here. I was like, excuse me, they call your wife. Pick up the phone and call your wife. I said I could pick up the phone. He said, technically you're not in prison anymore. And I was like, oh shit, pick up the phone. No answer, no answer, no answer. I don't remember a lot of phone I'm I'm like calling like hold on, no answer, no one is answering my phone. I'm like, no, this ain't happening. And finally I called. She answered, I'll never forget. She was like, well, Peter, in an hour, I said, what I like, listen. I was so hurt.
It hurt me.
I was sitting there like and because of my situation, they just didn't want to like They're not just gonna put me out the door. They want to make sure that I leave the premises safely. And I was so embarrassed to you manager, she said, Now, she said, I told you. I was like, oh my god, and thinking like this is not happening to me. And I was like wow, just sitting there and they're like, you want to use the phone, go ahead and just call your wife back, make sure she gets hurt. And I was like oh okay, and called her back. I said I could talk to you like on the phone, like wow, I don't have to use like you know, the operators don't have to tell me I'm being recorded. It was like wow, I'm That was the first secum for like being free that I felt, which was amazing. And yeah, she got there a little bit like an hour and towns later.
And I felt so bad because there's like a whole entourage and everyone has to wait in order to like release Jay, to make sure that you know he's safe, our family is safe.
It's a process which you think it's like arm guard. It's like taking you. Yeah, and they waited, and you know, now she just has everyone waiting.
I felt really embarrassed, but when I got out of the car, everyone was like, Okay, I get it. I broke my foot the night before. I was trying to like run around the house and make everything perfect.
That's like what I do.
I want to like lay everything out and make sure everything.
You know what I would tell her, you're so worried about everything else that you just focus on what's important.
I just wanted to make sure, like what, no matter I charged Jay's toothbrush, I wanted to make sure.
He had his like everything he could possibly be, like his slippers.
Like I was like, my mind just goes to the most simplest things of what he's going to need, and I just wanted to make everything perfect for him, and no.
Matter what it was special. I ended up.
Just running outside and putting up all of the Christmas lights.
It was just barely November. I had the landscapers out there, just.
Trying to make everything so nice for him, and I ended up tripping over one of the cables outside and I completely broke my foot.
I was.
What is going on? And it was it was hard, but you know, it didn't take away like once I was there and once I felt like like I still couln't believe I felt free, like no shackles, no, And of course it was a more so all my kids were there and we just stood there just crying in.
Tears, crying. It was so sorrey.
You got to go, like be there, you have to go. So I had to jump in the car and it was like I still remember my son, you know, just kind of quiet looking at me. He was happy at a smile on his face, and he can hug me, and I'm like, I told you I was always going to be there.
That's your youngest who had never actually lived with you, he'd only ever known you in prison, and.
He could not even like comprehend that his dad one day was going to be able to walk out that door. Like he didn't even He's like, there's no way, are you sure? He never thought that he would be released from prison.
It twere. I was lost of words, Like I was just like this feeling of fulfillment just hard to describe. And and they're just it was really emotional and just me wanting to like touch them and just you know, hug yeah, hugging.
Yeah.
And you know, I had advantage of being home alossom than my brother because of the time different. I would turn with my kids and eventually we touched my two nieces and so I was like, hey, oh my god, like and they're crying, and they were on FaceTime.
They were so excited, they were so anxious, which.
Is I'm still getting used to the like I was facetiming. He could actually see them, and you know, like that was different.
Dan was like, this is so weird.
This is so different, Like this is a weird, and I like, this could have made my business so much easier.
Don't forget that. Jay and Pete went to prison in two thousand and eight, two years before FaceTime existed. Jay had never seen FaceTime. In fact, when they went to prison, the original iPhone had.
Only been out for years.
Yeah, the twins started that business back in the days of the Nokia thirty two to ten. Jay settled in at home across the country. Heat was preparing to leave.
I can I can even imagine, like the thing was really coming. I had like a little homemade little calend that I kept on me. This is a little legal paper like that. I just wrote my own own lines on the days, and.
I crossed my mind. So when the day came, what happened? I sleep. I don't think anyone could leave.
I was like I had my room clean, I cleaned my cell toil, everything folded and everything to grab my own blankets and folding my mattress and left everything like WHI should be.
And I think that every.
Person who's done a long time has that little thought like is this really gonna.
Happen for me?
I remember that, like, yeah, it was coming to you got your wife can't beard the I think they were gonna take some re court whatever to live beer.
At nine, I was like nine, you know, I'm mad.
That my brother's gonna be out earlier cause he's you know, he was in at different times on and they called me to the office that I could your wife be here any earlier? I was like, yes, she can't, And then she was an answerment caller. What m.
Anyways?
But like walking out on a beautiful sunnay day and early and not feeling good. I was down like twenty pounds. I was downtime one thirty. I had a osama up, been lot and beard. You know, we weren't allowed to get haircut to. My hair was articulately long, and I remember like pulling the cart out like I had a couple of boxes.
With my belonging. I don't know what to tell you.
The joy for uh to see my family then, cause she liked me made it like I can't tell you what it was, might cancer, you know, no, yeah, well she looked more beautiful than ever.
That's a I couldn't like. I wanted to leave, like let it go and find me.
I closing the door, and I was like, I ain't jump to the back, see cause my sister wasn't the front, and the kids their own shit just.
Looking at me. Ag. I didn't want to say. I was speechless, like really speechless. That says a lot for someone like me who talks a lot. It must have been so surreal.
It was so not really like to think that I would be free in America. I would be free in the USA, and like back in the States and.
Free cause the last time you were free in America was when you were like twenty two, twenty three, right, I was twenty two.
Se you've not really.
Been free in America in your adulthood.
Yeah, I wanted to say, I can't tell you what it felt like, like I wanted to hold my kids, hold everyone.
And I remember my kids being around like that, like you're really here, like you're not in khakis. Yeah, I'm really here.
I could see in their eyes that there like a million questions, like it's just like what's next for us? Like I remember just something, just just don't knok back, man, Let's look forward to our future. And I say that we could forget that past. But it's just change of view a little bit because it was such a.
Long time.
And I didn't want them to literally look behind.
That's twelve years. It's a long time.
My kids never seen me outside that present to that day, never.
See me I eat like a normal food.
They never really got to see how I smell, see me in my without my shirt on, and there were like normal kids to see their father or like do something for them. My wife just know that what she felt to see you, to see him with their father what it meant to her, you know.
M hmm.
Yeah.
I see Peter.
He's coming out and he has is like a cart with the prison guards. So he has a cart like a book cart, and he has like boxes, and we were just just looking at him. My god, oh my god. But it was like almost silence in the car, silence, like just watching him. He opened the drunk and he puts his things in there, and then he gets in the car and it was really surreal to see him, like just see his presence, just be in his presence, and the kids were there and he got in the backseat and the kids were just he was just holding the kids he didn't know, like touching their hair, and I don't know. They were crying and the happy and they were just overjoyed, like just to see just to finally have them mirror. I was nervous, and I mean, I haven't been this close to him in twelve years, almost thirteen years.
It was really it was really difficult for me.
When he hugged me, I almost felt like I was trembling, like my body was a little trembling, a little nervous. I kind of avoided him, like I was like, oh, I'm gonna do this.
I want to wash the dishes.
And I was like, but after a while, you know, the kids wanted to have a movie night. So we lay blankets on the floor and we put a movie on and they were just everyone was just so happy and and still they couldn't take their eyes off of him.
Come on, get to the funny part.
Oh, so you know they're young.
I mean, they're old enough they're going to do something. It's funny.
Yeah, they're really well where they're you know, they're really market and they're.
Like, you left us.
You didn't even finish the movie.
But they're understand you know, they're understanding, and they're funny. They're really funny kids. Yeah, really mature for their age.
Because it's weird that they made it so awkward for us.
And then my sister in law was there and she was like, leave your mom and dad alone.
Yes, they're talking about the S word sex. The last time Pete and viv were intimate in that way was black when they were cooperating in the government offices in Chicago. Remember the three bees, the first bee, the baby. Whilst I was talking to Pete, he called his youngest daughter to chat about the day he came home from prison.
Hello, how are you?
How good are you? I'm good, thank you.
I was telling Charlie about the day I came home.
Yeah, and I was telling you how you We were just staring at using the whole time, and Mom was avoiding me.
Yeah.
I think that we were all like so like shocked. It was like, oh my gosh, he's out of prison. And it's funny because like I remember every little like every little sentence he said that day. Well, when he first got in a car, like he didn't say anything, but he told me specifically, like he put me in the link. He was from my ear, don't look back, just keep your eyes on like on the road. And then when he got home, he was just like mesmerized, like by the house, you know, having a home. So then like when he he went into the room and he was like he laid on the bedding and then like just like tour in the house. And remember he finally ate no good warm meal because of COVID he couldn't have warm meals, so like he was focusing on his food and we didn't really eat. We were just like looking at him.
Whole time, just like was that eating funny.
Yeah, yeah, you were eating You're you're eating good. I think, yeah. I just really be like, oh my god, this is my friends mual. So my sister and I really really excited, like we had like a whole night turned out or really watch watch of like our favorite movies or whatever really series. And you know, my sister got already and I was like, Dad like, mom, lets let's go. And so my sister and I were waiting on the cash for them for like five hours. I was like, oh, Okay, let's just gonna end. I'm tired. He's like, yeah, it's a pretty cool.
After spending so much time with the Flora's family, I felt like I'd gotten to know them pretty well. We'd spoken about so much and delved into their deepest emotions together. Some of the things we got into and have shared on this podcast they've never talked about before. By this point, I got to know the children quite well too. I was struck why the fact that despite everything, they were also close, and the way the kids were with their fathers and vice versa. You'd never really have known that they've been in prison the majority of their children's lives.
I would take the children and go see Peter at least twice a year over the years, just so that way he was always a part of our children's lives and vice versa when it comes to Peter's children, because I think Jay and Peter had this connection to where they almost feel like these are all of their kids, all of their children together, one family. And when I would see Peter, it was like almost shocking to me because I'd sit there and watch him with Viv and watch him with the kids, and I felt like I was almost looking in from a lens.
Which was so.
Weird because I was just seeing me and Jay and the way that Jay would interact with me, and the way he would interact with our children, and it was everything when it comes to body gestures, when it comes to body language, when it comes to body and movement, when it comes to conversations, when it came to everything. And I used to come back and tell Jay like, oh my god, this is so crazy. I feel like I'm looking at our family like watching from a camera, and it was just like unreal to see.
Over the twelve years that Pete and Jay were in prison, the family, including the kids, spent nearly every weekend visiting them. With the exception of COVID, and that's only because they weren't physically allowed to visit and of course a few months in a safe.
House leading up to their sentencing.
That are fathers that aren't in prison that see their children less. All that being said, I could tell how much of an impact what they've been through had on the children. Because the twins were moved around the country so much, their families also had to move to be with them. This meant the kids were constantly changing schools. It wasn't like they were able to have close friends anyway. The kids had to hide their own identities. They were never allowed to talk about their family, where they were from, or reveal anything about their backgrounds. Their kids had to be as hypervigilant as their parents. Even now that Jay and Peter are out of prison, the children are still hypervigilant about their own identities being revealed and wake up every morning wondering if their fathers are going to get taken away from them again. I sat down with all the children to understand what it was like for them. This is Pete's daughter again, who you just heard on the phone.
It was like every single holiday, a birthday, that's all I wanted. It's friend death, come home. My dad would always like he always try to be honest with us. I remember when we were like I was I think.
Four years old.
I was school and I had a friend and I told her that my dad.
Was in a cage.
I was like really curious about everything because as much as like my dad tried to explain everything to us and what he did, I still couldn't understand it. So I remember like googling stuff and me just like reading it. It just all came together, you know, about his whole life. I think I was like scared to like no, because you know, I did one thousand and one hundred and fifty two days with.
Him, fifty two days.
Yes, when he told me, I think I like started to think more.
And I was like, you know, why would you like do that you didn't think about us.
I think I became more like I was so upset.
And then having to go home, and then going home to have to like put on this like.
Costume, you know where your home life is.
Like no one knew anything about my home life, like at school, like no one that knew always just.
My mom and my brother in at all.
So it was just like having to do with keeping that secret from like everybody.
It's not just their fathers that the kids are worried about, it's their mothers too. Within six months of Pete and Jay getting out of prison, SWAT teams surrounded each of their houses in the early hours of the morning, and I WestEd Val and viv on money laundering charges.
My Van and I did a me and Viviana. I felt like.
We knew what was coming.
We told our children that the Feds would come one day and they'd come into the house and they would possibly take us and arrest us and put us in prison.
That was the hardest thing I think we ever had to deal.
The kids were all home when their mothers were arrested. We'll get to how it all unfolded in the next episode.
I remember just like waking up in the morning, my dad feel like try to get up, and then they put in their haircuffs and they went in the car and then I just remember so I was like kind of like I didn't comprehend it yet. I was just I think I was like I was in shock because I didn't think that it would happen. And I remember my dad was like breaking down, and so my mom told me before she left, just like stay strong. I got up and I was like, I woke my brother up, and I just told them, and then I walked out of the room and I just started cleaning and cooking china, trying to make everything as normal as possible.
Surviving l Chapo. The Twins Who Brought Down a Drug Lord Season two is hosted by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and me Charlie Webster, produced by myself and Jackson mcclennan, Assistant producer and research support by Casey Hurtz. Edit and sound designed by Nico Kalella. Theme music and original score by Ryan Sorenson. It's executive produced by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and Me Charlie Webster. Curtis fifty cent Jackson presents a Lionsgate Sound and G Unit audio production exclusively for iHeart Podcasts.
