Ep 07: Marble Palace

Published Aug 2, 2023, 8:00 AM

Sarah becomes the youngest woman in history to argue in the Supreme Court. A controversial decision by Warren puts Harry in an uncomfortable position. 

~~ Cast Credits ~~
Sarah Weddington: Maya Hawke
Justice Harry Blackmun: William H. Macy 
Bea: Laura Benanti
Cady: Ashley Eskew
Deb: Andrea Savage
Jay Floyd: Peter Oldring
Justice Brennan: Aaron Tracy
Justice Powell: Sam Stumpf
Justice Stewart: Richard Newman
Justice White: Bill Mondy
Linda Coffee: Abigail Breslin
Male Guard: Pat Kelly
Lena: Susanne Potrock
Reporter: Katie Couric
Roy Lucas: Luke Kirby
Dottie Blackmun: Felicity Huffman
Dr. Erdahl: Mark Chavez
Gloria: Karen Foreman
Harry's Mom: Barbara Pollard
Librarian: Karen Foreman
Linda Coffee: Abigail Breslin
Justice Marshall: Joe Costa
Justice Burger: William Fichtner

From iHeart Podcasts. This is Supreme The Battle for Rows eighteen Roll against Wayne, starring Maya Hawky and William H. Mason.

Whenever you are.

Ready, mister Chief Justice and Maya Pleased the Court.

Episode seven Marble Palace.

Mister Chief Justice man, please may please the court, please mabe.

Please the court.

Oh five am? Well that was wrestful.

Far fucking now, Linda, sh Sarah, no one's around. Who's gonna hear me? The car doesn't care?

I hear you. Show some respect to this place. Brother. We're supposed to go to the Marshall's office first. There it is. Hello there, I'm Sarah Weddington and this is Linda. Coffee. We're the lawyers arguing this morning. Sorry, we're a little early.

Come back in an hour, ladies, you'll still be early.

Come on, ma'am, have a heart, won't you. We've never done this before.

We're nervous as heck.

Put yourself in our shoes.

Sorry, I need coffee. Welcome to the Supreme Court, ladies. Here's a card authorizing what you may and may not bring into the courtroom and other instructions.

For you both.

You have a third, don't you?

Yes?

Right, Lucas, I'll be at our table. He won't be speaking now, let me see these instructions remain seated at the reserve table through out the argument of the case, which immediately precedes.

Your case that doesn't apply to us. We're the first case today.

When counsel's turn comes for argument, he will proceed to the rosterrum without being called. He should not begin until he has been recognized by the Chief Justice. Then he should open his argument with mister Chief Justice and may it please the court? Wow?

Sorry about that. Not a lot of call for a female version of these.

This is intense. There are fewer protocols when we meet the queen.

How would you possibly know that? Linda? Thank you, ma'am. Come on, Lyda, let's go.

Missus Weddington.

Yes, I just want you to know a bunch.

Of US staffers here at court we're rooting for you today. Go get them.

Thank you. Thank you so much, Linda. Did you just hear what she just said to me?

Keep it together, Sarah. Check out the courtroom, Sarah, Okay, you look white, I mean more than usual.

The courtroom is smaller than I thought.

Three hundred and fifty seats, isn't enough for you. You think your jan is chompling all of a sudden. Look, that must be the three minute section, my son.

For tourists, they sit for three minutes at a time, then get replaced by a new group.

Well, that's not gonna be distracting at all.

But I had no idea. The lawyers stand was this close to the bench. Why don't they move it back? My God, when I stand here, if I reach out my hand and the Chief Justice reaches out here, we could shake.

Okay, but you're not gonna do that. Ray, right, Sarah.

It's like sitting in the dang front row of a movie theater, says on the ends, won't even be in my field of vision.

Breathe, Sarah breathed in an out look. Gifts for us, handmade goose quill pens. We get to keep these.

Every lawyer who's ever argued here has.

Oh what is it now, Sarah, why do you look weird?

No, it's just it reminds me of my father's church. I wasn't expecting that.

Okay, this is a bad time for an acid flashback, Sarah.

The pews, the gallery, the lectern, the stage.

Okay, is church a happy memory or a sad memory.

When I was a little girl, I used to entertain my father's whole congregation.

There are some of my fondest memories.

Happy then, if I can just pull you back into the present for a minute, Sarah, remember what we practiced. Look, they even put a cheat sheet on the lectern for you with the Justice seating arrangement. Make eye contact with Powell on everything related to ninth Amendment. Look at Burger when pushing the fourteenth. He may be persuadable on that.

What about black Man?

Don't focus on him, Harry. Blackman is just burger sidekick. Convince Warren and Harry will follow, And don't go over the allotted time. A white light goes on here when you have a few minutes left, when the red light goes on, sit your buck down.

I know I'm the one who told you all that I got it. Linda good, Okay, So.

What do you want to do for the next three hours?

Excuse me, sir, We can't seem to find the lavatory we're arguing.

This morning, of course, missus Whittington. It's in the lawyer's lock.

Actually, I only saw a man's room in there, Oh right.

The women's facilities are in the basement.

I think, of course, why.

Wouldn't they be, Sarah, Mama, you look so beautiful, sweetie.

Momma, you remember leading.

To coffee him? Missus Rigel, how was the fly? Very easy?

Here?

The girl's drum scrapook needs you a card?

Thanks, Mama. Where's Daddy still in the cap?

Daddy couldn't make it, Dear, What what do you mean?

He just he couldn't make it? Oh, Sarah, do not fall apart on me.

Not now.

Big a day of my life and he couldn't come.

Excuse me, Missus Rigel, I need Sarah for a second. Of course, go get ready.

Good luck, it's fine. Daddy's very busy. It's a long trip from Dallas.

It's fine, Sarah.

Your father is a freaking minister and a Texan and a man. Some part of you feel like if he was a portive of this and almost wouldn't be worth you in.

I guess.

I can't believe you scored these seats, Katie.

Must have been expensive.

It's not a next game, Mike yat they were free.

Did you speak to Sarah this morning?

Wish your good luck from the group. No, I didn't want to rattle or we'll catch her after me. I should be able to breathe again.

By then, missus Weddington, Thanks coffee, mister Lucas, good to see you.

I can't believe this crowdland. Everybody's here. Look. Anne Richards is sitting right over there.

By wrong yep, your husband is also two seats away from Betty for Dan.

That's Betty for Dan. Oh, and there's Mikey and Katie from the Institute. There's being deb who those women in the private area next to the bench.

I think that's the life's box. Believe me, no Justice's wife. I used to miss this one.

I wonder what the justices are doing right now. I think they're as nervous as we are.

Are you kidding? They're shaking their robes. They kind of answer to the Sarah Wennington today.

What do you see between what distinction do you make between one and nine months of justice?

You look nervous, Harry.

I'm just trying to be prepared, warn.

Relax, especially with this one. Not a lot of suspense here, all right, gentlemen, here we go.

The Honorable the Chief Justice and the Associate Justices of the Supreme Court of the United States o ya o ya o ya.

All right, here we go, Sarah.

All persons having business before the Honorable the Supreme Court of the United States are admonished to draw near and give their attention. But the Court is now sitting.

Be sitting.

We'll hear arguments in number eighteen row against uh Wade. Missus Weddington. You may proceed whenever you're ready.

Mister Chief Justice, and may it please the Court. The Texas abortion laws are unconstitutional for two reasons. They're impermissibly vague, and they violate a woman's rats. They permit abortions only to save the life of the woman.

Now, Missus Weddington, does this hold true for doctors as well?

An interesting question, Chief Justice Burger, Why.

Thank you, Missus Weddington.

The current law is unclear, mister Chief Justice. Unless they can prove it's necessary to save a woman's life, doctors could be prosecuted under the law. But what if a woman comes to a doctor alleging she'll commit suicide if he doesn't give her an abortion.

What's the doctor to do? The law is too vague, your honor.

Let's talk about access, Missus Weddington.

Oh okay, Justice.

Blackman, you go into it extensively in your brief, But why is lack of access an undue burden on a woman?

Thank you for the question, Justice Blackman.

I would say that all personal and familial problems for a woman are bound up in pregnancy.

It changes a woman's life.

What I mean to say is pregnancy is one of the most determinative aspects of her life. It disrupts her body, it disrupts her education, it disrupts her employment, and it often disrupts her entire family. We feel that because of this fundamental impact on the woman, she must have access and ability to decide whether to continue or to terminate her pregnancy.

Mister Floyd, when you're ready.

Mister Chief Justice, and may it please the court.

It's an old joke, but when a man argues against two beautiful ladies like these, they are going to have the last word.

Get on with it, mister Floyd.

Yes, mister Chief Justice.

Yes, Before I proceed, I would like to bring the lack of standing to the Court's attention. We believe that this case is moot and should be dismissed outright because Jane Rowe, as well as the other plaintiffs are no longer pregnant.

Mister Floyd, Are you suggesting there are no pregnant females in the state of Texas.

This is a.

Class action suit, mister Floyd, Yes, your honor, But for a class action suit to be valid, at least one member of the original suit must have standing.

None of these plaintiffs in this case do.

Mister Floyd. In the American judicial system, cases take longer than nine months to reach us. That's just fact. Under your reasoning, how could any pregnant woman ever sue?

Withstanding they cannot justice Blackman?

Some issues simply have no remedy. What I mean to say is that the woman makes her choice prior to the time she becomes pregnant.

That is the time of choice.

Or maybe she makes her choice when she decides to live in Texas.

Mister Floyd, your honors, how long a woman has been pregnant should be a part of the Texas law and it is not.

What distinctions do you make, missus Whittington me, your honor. Yes, you point out that Texas law doesn't refer to how long a woman has been pregnant, But what is your opinion?

It is a I would say I have a more difficult time saying the state has no ability to regulate in late pregnancy.

Justice black Man, Why why is that?

I think it's more the emotional response to a late pregnancy, Justice Marshall say, in the seventh or eighth or ninth month, it might be out of bounds, but it's an emotional distinction rather than a constitutional one.

Emotional an emotional response by whom Missus.

Weddington, Well, I suppose by anyone considering this issue outside the legal profession, just as Marshall.

In other words, you don't think there's a legal argument to me made about the distinction between early and late term abortions. Missus Weddington.

Well, if we're speaking about a legal context, your honor.

As long as we're in the courtroom, Missus Weddington, we may as well.

This is Weddington. Let me make this simple. Do you or don't you say that time frame should be a part of the constitutional question.

I would say, yes, Your Honor, the number of months that pass and a pregnancy are relevant.

Okay, then, mister Floyd, when does life begin?

Excuse me, Justice Marshall, you heard me.

You represent the state of Texas. What is your position?

Is there life in the first few weeks of pregnancy the last few. Surely, if your state intends to prohibit abortion on the grounds that it's taking away a life, you can tell us when the cutoff is, after all, mister Floyd, laws must be precise.

Of course, Justice Marshall.

So when is it, mister Floyd? Is there life after seven months, seven days one? Now the very moment of conception?

Perhaps?

Well, Justice Powell.

And what scientific data do you have to support whatever your conclusion is, mister Floyd.

And be specific, yes, Justice Blackman, it's the development of the embryo, is Mister Justice.

I think it's humbling to there are some unanswerable.

Questions, your honor, And we're talking about when the soul comes into the unborn, if a person believes in the soul, the soul.

You know what, mister Floyd, did?

I withdraw the question, Missus Weddington, You've made a very eloquent policy argument against the Texas law. What provisions of the Constitution do you rely on?

Chief Justice Burger?

In the lower court it was held that the right to terminate a pregnancy rested upon the Ninth Amendment. I think that the due process clause incorporated into the fourteenth Amendment is an equally appropriate place the Fourteenth Yes, just as Blackman prohibiting the deprivation of life, liberty, or property by the government. We believe that if liberty is meaningful at all, it should mean liberty from being forced to continue unwanted pregnancies.

Missus Weddington, your case then depends primarily on our holding that the fetus is not a person with constitutional rights. Is that correct?

Yes, Justice Brandon.

So if it were established that the fetus was a life, you would have a difficult case, wouldn't you, Missus Weddington.

Oh well, mister Floyd, do you know of any case anywhere that is that an unborn fetus is a person within.

The meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment?

No, mister Chief Justice.

We can only go back to what the framers of our Constitution had in mind.

Really, the framers, you want to take a moment to rethink that, mister Flood.

Justice Brennan, I know this Court has given certain rights to groups that the Framers couldn't have foreseen in their day, But in this case there is no such rights that are.

Mister Floyd, I don't think that's Justice Brennan's issue, or not his Ownly issue anyway.

What is the issue, Justice Marshall.

One issue is that the Framers were not particularly involved in the drafting of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Mister Floyd. The Amendment was written in eighteen sixty six.

Or are you suggesting that some of our founding fathers were immortals, mister.

Floyd, No, your honor, I misspoke. Sticking with the Fourteenth Amendment for a moment, mister Floyd, let's look at the text. Does it define a person as someone who is born?

It says all persons born or naturalized in the United States of America are afforded.

Yes, But that's not the definition of a person, mister Floyd. That's the definition of a citizen. Isn't it true, mister Floyd, that the medical profession itself is not an agreement as to when life begins?

I think that is true, Justice Blackman.

But on the twentieth day, practically all of the faculties are there that you and I have.

What are you basing that on, mister Floyd?

On research, your honor?

You care to be more specific.

Your honor.

A fetus is a person within the framework of the Constitution, simple as that.

Uh huh.

Of course, if you're right about that, mister Floyd. You can sit down. You've won your case.

Yes, mister Chief Justice, the child has rights. This Court has been diligent in protecting the rights of the minority, and we hold that they are a minority, a silent minority, the true silent minority.

Who is speaking for these children?

Where is their protection for right to trial by jury when the mother wants to abord?

Okay, But mister Floyd, if the fetus or embryo is not a person, then you've lost your case. If it's simple one way, it's just as simple. The other.

Court observers are now pouring over the questions posed by the justices for any hints at how they might be leaning. The Court's decision has the potential to completely disrupt upcoming elections. In his previous life, Chief Justice Burger was an active member of the Republican Party. Can he now tune out the GOP's vocal desire to end the expansion of rice begun under the previous court, or will this case end up expanding them even more?

How on earth did I let you drive me here? Sarah? I feel like I'm on a sixth grade field trip.

Stop complaining will you how often are we in d see Linda?

You think I'm not going to see the Lincoln Memorial.

I'm just saying it's a strange way to celebrate what we just finished.

And I think it's the perfect way. Let's pay our quick respects to honest tape. Then I want to see the Air and Space Museum and take one of those paddle boat things over to the Jefferson.

Okay, just promise me we're not going back to the Supreme Court because the guided door would feel a little intoclimactic.

Oh hush, Linda. Anyway, what do we have better to do? The case is officially out of our hands down. All we can do is wait, Hi, there.

You two lovely ladies enjoying the sights.

We sure are well.

My buddies and I are heading over to duke Zieberts for some drinks. Would you ladies care to join?

We're fine things anyway?

What about you, doll?

I'm sorry, we have a bunch of more sized to see today orally in town a couple of days.

Okay, Well, can't blame a guy for trying. Where are you all visiting from from Dallas? No, the Cowboys are my team. What do you all do down there?

We're lawyers.

Get out of here.

My pal over there and I are at Georgetown Law.

Where are you two in school or not?

We're practicing?

Yeah, right, No, we are really re litigators.

Mm hmm. Ever argued a case before?

Uh huh, you could say.

So, all right, let's get going, gentlemen. Anybody need anything before we start deliberations?

Water, coffee, But let's just get going more.

And find that Michael, take this back to my chambers. Tell the other porters we're squared away and let the clerks know. We'll be in closed conference. No disturbances.

Yes, your.

The state has the right to protect the fetus.

End of story.

Diving right in then, thank you, whizar.

Oh Hawash Council demonstrated that the state has never given a fetus rights before. The young lady proved her argument.

Yes she did, and the other lawyer, Floyd did himself. No favors. The Texas Statute is rife with contradictions.

Doesn't mean we should strike it down their goood. It's still the state's issue to deal with. We should send it back to them.

The country expects a resolution to this issue. We're not dodging at this time.

Hey, no one's dodging anything, Bill, but it's not necessarily our role to weidhe in.

The hell it isn't. The country's a mess. We can't have abortion illegal in the South and legal in the north.

Oh, come on, do not equate this with eighteen sixty The good he's not whizzer. I'll be damned that this is going to become my dread Scott. But we also can't pretend this won't inflame the country whichever way we come down, Harry, what do you think?

I'm well, maybe, now let's get into specifics. What about when the woman is married, does the husband have any say in whether she kills the baby?

It's not a baby, Lewis, and it's not killing.

Yes, But if we buy the privacy argument, husbands will have no control whatsoever.

And I have a lot of trouble with that, so do I.

I'm not about to suggest the ninth Amendment of the Constitution allows anybody to do anything they like in private, and certainly not something like this without consulting the father.

No, certainly not.

And I'd be interested to see the research about whether there's a connection between promiscuity and abortion.

Holy hell, wizard. People aren't going to use it as a form of birth control.

I have trouble with the idea that taxpayer money goes towards the procedure.

It's less than what they'll pay for welfare.

Lewis, Come on, all right, all right?

Should we take a vote? See where we are?

Absolutely not. We need to talk some more, Warren. We've barely scratched the surface.

Let's just see where we're at their good. All those for striking down the Texas abortion law? Okay, all opposed? Okay, so that's about even with a couple of abstentions. Wait, Harry, I missed your vote.

No you didn't. I didn't make one.

You're not voting, Harry.

I think we should talk more. We haven't even begun on medical ethics, and I want to reread some of the briefs.

Look at that.

I can't remember you ever not voting with your pal on a first go round.

You're out of line, Lewis.

I'm not voting with or against anyone. I'm simply abstaining until I have a chance to really dig into some of this.

Are you kidding me?

Harry? We discussed this, You discussed it. The hell does that mean.

I don't think you two should be discussing your vote before all arguments.

Oh please, you're always coluding with with me?

Hey the hell, Hey, Convince.

All you want point is this conference room is where we should first see where we all stay agreed.

Otherwise there's the potential for too much politicking.

All right, All right enough, Harry, what's your vote?

Stop muddling around? I told you, Warren, I need to give further.

Con veteration, should find you do that. In any event, I'm assigning the opinion to Harry.

What talking about Warren?

Harry is our resident expert in all medical matters. He worked at the Mayo Clinic.

For years as in house counsel. Warren. He wasn't operating on people anyway.

Harry hasn't written the decision in a major case.

Yet exactly, So what it's his turn in the rotation or something, Warren. That's not how we do things.

Bigger issue, gentlemen, this isn't your case to assign Warren. Douglas is the senior justice in the majority, So no.

No, he's not.

There's no majority yet their goods, so the chief makes the assignment.

I could argue with the exact opposite with him.

We're done here, gentlemen.

Warren, hold up a second. You sure your boy is up for this? Lewis stop.

I know Harry is your friend, but he's only been here a short time.

He's not nearly ready for this. What the hell are you up to?

Warren?

Don't worry about it, Supreme.

The Battle Farrow from iHeart Podcasts, created and written by Aaron Tracy, directed by Rachel Winter, starring Maya Hawk, William h. Macy, and Abigail Breslin, also featuring Laura Bonanti as b Andrea Savage as deb William Fickner as Warren, Felicity Huffman as Dottie, Peter Oldring as j Floyd, Luke Kirby as Roy, and Katie Kuric as the Reporter. Executive produced by Eva Longoria, Ben Spector, Rachel Winter and Aaron Tracy, as well as Katrina Norvell in Anna Stump from iHeart produced by Kelly and Kelly. Executive producers for Kelly and Kelly are Chris Kelly, Lauren Berkovich, and Pat Kelly. Produced by Tamara Black for Kelly and Kelly. Director of Audio Chris Kelly. Original score by Hamilton Lighthauser and Anna Stump. Sound designed by Paul Teduscini, Edited by Max Collins. For a full list of credits, please see show notes.

This is a production of Unbelievable Entertainment in partnership with iHeartRadio

Supreme: The Battle for Roe

At 26 years old, Sarah Weddington stands in a courtroom for the first time in her life and argues th 
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