Matt Bair and Ryan Hedrick continue talking about the steps in their recovery journeys, sharing how the twelve steps have made a positive difference in their lives and improved their relationships with those who support them. The idea is that these steps often provide the answers to what addicts or alcoholics are struggling with. By working through the steps, we can get better with ourselves, which helps us get better with the people who love and care for us.

Step Four is about honestly examining your actions and behaviors and how they affect your life. It requires honesty and humility because it shows that you can’t do everything alone. Step Five takes this further by sharing what you’ve discovered with someone else and your higher power, admitting your flaws out loud. This helps you realize that you need support beyond just yourself.

Timestamps and Discussions: 

4:24 to 6:44 -  Matt discusses how these steps focus on the addict’s journey. In his Step Four, everyone he wrote about was a caregiver somehow. He explains how he uses the steps to measure what his relationships could look like.

6:44 to 8:23 -  Ryan discusses a question regarding what society expects of him in the fourth step. He shares how his obsession and compulsion can still be intense, even during recovery. He also mentions that Step Four looks at his strengths, not just the negatives.

8:36 - 8:59 - Why rigorous honesty is vital to the fourth step. Getting our house in order to do this step takes willingness. 

9:26 - 11:13 - The guys explain how steps four and five are related. The fourth step involves looking inward to identify past actions. After looking at himself in step four, Ryan explains that step five is about talking to someone else about what he's found. 

11:14 - 14:39 - Matt says step four is about writing, and step five is about talking. Matt was so paralyzed by shame that he found his writing cathartic—step four addresses anxiety, fear, and sexual behavior. 

14:56 - 17:00 - The personal inventory in the fourth step is deeply personal and loving, allowing us to see things for what they were. When we were using, we were professional victims. We used every excuse in the book to continue our behavior. Ryan talks about the therapeutic value of one addict helping each other. 

17:20 - 19:25 - We can't carry shame or will use/drink again. The steps are in order for a reason. Sitting in recovery meetings and listening to people share their experiences about how they apply the steps in their lives can help your addict identify similar experiences.  Pain can be a great motivator. 

20:00 - 23:07 - The steps are designed to bring your addict closer to a loving higher power who can guide us in our recovery. Commitment is an often overlooked principle. Ryan talks about the fantasies he created during his drug use. Commitment to work and applying the principles in these steps is the most important thing your addict needs to do. 

23:39 Closing thoughts. 

Resources: 

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Al-Anon: Al-Anon.org

AA Meetings: aa.intergroup.org/meetings

NA Meetings: virtual-na.org

Suicide Prevention Hotline: (800) 273-8255