Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from house Stuff Works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to the podcast. I'm josh Joshua Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Jerry is over there, just Jerry uh. And that's stuff you should know that. She has a new sitcom out on that its called Jerry. It's suddenly Jerry. Um, how you doing. I'm fine as well, coming too, intrude, just checking. I'm excited about this. When I first read our article, I was a little bit like, oh, this is a little unwieldy because it's so folklore. It's just it's an amorphous. As it turns out, it's everything. Yeah, pretty much. But then you sent, um, what was that other good article from? Actually we should shout that out. It was from a I think the University of Louisiana or something like that. They have a folk life folklore department, and it was basically, we we stumbled upon some unit for teachers to teach what folklore is, and we're like, hey, it works for us, super helpful. Yeah, it was very helpful. It definitely. It took a lot of this amorphous stuff that was in our article and chipped away at the edges and give it a little more shape, you know, agreed, So, um, you did kind of hit it on the head. It's it's kind of like, um, nailing jelly to the wall, defining what folklore is, because it is so much stuff that phrases folklore. If if it isn't just me saying it, if I share it and now other people say it, it could become stuff you should know folklore oral oral folklore? Did you make that up? It was? I think I've heard it before, So that's folklore. Yeah, I guess, so it's a it's a variation though of Um, what else did I hear? Oh? Yeah, we were talking about the the nuclear fusion reactor where they were saying that keeping plasma contained is kind of like trying to hold jelly in a bunch of rubber bands. That's a nerd science folklore. That's what inspired made us say nailing jelly to the wall. I like that. It seems like it really sums it up. So folklore. Yeah. I found this other definition I thought was pretty good, which is uh, traditional art, literature, knowledge and practice that is disseminated largely through oral communication and behavioral example. Uh. And then this was the key for me. Things that people traditionally believe do no make and say. In other words, everything, Yeah, I mean, you're right, everything that that's That's about as good a definition as you're gonna find. One of the problems with studying folklore is that there are so many definitions out there. Apparently folklorists, who are people who study folklore, UM. I don't like to be too judge. It's kind of part and parcel with their um their field of study. You don't judge stuff, you just collect information. The problem is is that they've also just kind of collected definitions for folklore along the way, and there isn't one set definition that's accepted by everybody. Yeah, a folklore collected stuff. I was like, that's stupid. It wouldn't be it would be a good Why are you guys doing that? That's a good TV show? The bad folk folklore? And I might say folk here and there because I mispronounced that word often and how are you saying it? Well, a lot of times I'll say the l In fact, up until about a year ago when someone wrote it in was a stupid It's pronounced folke like f o k folk and not folk. But the weird thing is is like I hear the l missing when I hear folk weird. That's some sort of like I don't hear f o k e. Like it's clear to me that there's a fo l k in there. You hear the silence. It's a great word. Oh okay, it's beautiful. It is beautiful. Um. And another thing too that we should point out that folklore is love to point out is that, um, it is not and should not be associated with being backward or old timey or uneducated. Like I think a lot of people have that connotation in their heads that folklore is like the hillbilly on the porch, you know, when their homespun wisdoms, and it can be that, but it's it's it's not that at all. Like it's not just that, right. Um. A really good example that contradicts that is, um Snopes. Snopes dot com is basically a clearinghouse of modern folklore. I never really thought about that, you know, Um, the Nigerian prince scam. That's folklore. Yeah, it sure is. Emoticons even are considered now a form of um verbal communication verbal folklore. Yeah, And like you said, it's everything and the reason it's everything is because um it comes out of groups. Like if I just have a habit, you know where Um, I keep a rubber band twisted around my finger until it turns purple, and then I'll take it off for half an hour and then do it again. This is just some weird habit that's not folklore. Folklore is something that's shared between a group. Yeah, and uh, those groups can be like almost anything the I think them. That great article you sent and it says neighborhoods, communities, and regions, but also religious groups, families, occupations, gender like pretty much any grouping, enthusiast, hobbyists, anything you can think of that you can group more than two people together. It can be a folk group exactly. You can have like a Catholic dockyard worker who is also a member of an RC playing club, who also is a member of a book club at the local library. Right, So that one person is going to be a member of all those different folk groups, and all those folk groups are gonna have their own folklore. True. But uh, that's yeah, you're right. That's another good thing to point out is you're not just in one group. You have you spanned many, many groups, and for instance, I have family folklore. Uh, we have probably occupational folklore, you know, the old podcaster folklore for us and our colleagues. Uh, and my gender and my age and uh religious affiliation growing up, like, we all have many many groups in subgroups that we fall into, right, and we get our information from that. Yeah. One of the things that I think has been tricky about defining folklore is that there's not it's not obvious necessarily what folklore is for. Yeah, not at first blush, but if you go and read some of the people who study it. Um. The idea of folklore is that one of the main things it does is it reinforces membership in a group. It makes you feel special for being part of that group, an insider um. And then it also um reinforces the norms of that group. Like folklore is based on basically norms, customs, traditions, things that the members of the group have said, this is what you know, we identify with. Yeah, and not always too um, As that teaching site points out, not always reinforcing those norms, sometimes overturning those norms. Yeah. Like a good way to overturn the norm is to take an existing norm and turn it on its ear because it makes it really approachable to the other people in your folk group. They understand what you're doing very clearly, and it gives them a different perspective. Or using the traditional channels. Yeah, like uh. I think one example I saw somewhere was taking a traditional folk song maybe and adding verses to it to spend its meaning to the opposite, perhaps like Bob Dylan he's famous for stealing things. Or Jimmy Page. Uh oh, yeah. Have you heard that song the Zeppelin or the Yes Stairway to Heaven lawsuit? No, no, who whose song was it? Originally? I can't remember the name. I mean, this is not news. It's been around for a while, but um yeah, I mean they've been sued. Uh. It was a group that opened up for for Zeppelin on an early tour and supposedly played this song, and I think Zeppelin has I haven't looked at it up lately, but I think they have defeated the suit. But when you hear the song, you're like, oh, that sounds a little bit like the opening bit the Stairway to Heaven. So it was like the musical the music. It wasn't like any of the leader. Yeah, that that opening guitar strumming pattern, UM was pretty darn similar. But um, as any musician will tell you, everybody steals. There's only so many variations of chords and picking patterns that you can do. And uh, it's just part of the rich tradition of music. It's the nick things, respectfully, not you know, not right buster's I want a new drug kind of feeling. Yeah, I mean that's when your lawsuits come up. Um, it's not just music that there's that long tradition of stealing um or nicking or whatever you want to euphemism. It's literature is very much the same way. There's something like five or ten themes and all of literature and everything else is just basically a variation of them. And that's one of the things that folklore, uh are folk folklorists have learned through studying folklore, is that we humans share what can be called basically a common imagination. That humans across time and space, um all have a a like a certain number of slots of looking at the world. Certain things in the world capture the human imagination in a similar way in all different parts of the world, and we tend to use similar explanations for them. So you'll have independently evolving folklore among groups who've never met before, um, that seek to explain or have a story about something that is just kind of out there in the environment. Yeah, that's a good point. Um. One of the examples of that is uh, in folklore stories are frogs and toads can be found and all kinds of old stories and all cultures all over the world. That I mean, it's possible too if you're close to one another, like uh, Korea and China may have stories to overlap one another just through a common geographical boundary. But stuff like frogs and toads will pop up, you know, let's say in Europe or medieval Europe or in Asia, like places aren't even close to one another where it's inexplicable basically, right, and they'll share like a similar um personality or something in the story. So like frogs and toads are commonly thought of as shape shifting tricksters. Yeah, and I think, um, this article points out that that's probably because they go from tadpole to frog or toad and they change themselves physically. So it's um, you know, the old dummies back in the day they would just use that obvious. Obviously they can become human too, since they go from tadpole the frog exactly like the frog prince. And you you mentioned also um shared regional characteristics that are most likely the result of stories making it from one group to another, crossing borders. But among groups that are close together and UM that example you gave of East Asia, UM, Japan and Korea, Thailand, China, they all have UM. They the idea that there's a rabbit in the moon and he's using a mortar and pestle. And what that would be is a motif. Like all of them have the shared idea that there's a rabbit in the moon. Right, But then there's what are called variations of that motif. So in Japan and Korea, the rabbits making mochi, which is a sweet, squishy rice cake that often has like something even sweeter injected in like red sweetness. Right. Um. In China the rabbit is making medicine. In Thailand's husking um rice. So you have variations on what the rabbit is doing. But the motif is if you look up at the moon, there's a rabbit doing something up there. Yeah, and like we said it's most likely because of a shared border or just because simply people moving between those countries. So we'll talk about where folklore comes from. Friends, if you can believe it or not. Right after this chuckers, So we're back. We're talking folklore. We should also say folklore is actually um a fairly recent word. It was coined in eighteen forty six by a guy named William J. Toms. Yeah. He was a an early and tiquarian. He was also very interested in studying um what has now come to be called folklore or folk life. We should point out that's a modern term that people folklore is like even more yeah, because folklore has this connotation that um, that it has to do with stories, oral traditions, or even not true things. Because you've heard like, oh, that's just folklore, like an old lives tale. Yeah, exactly. So they've expanded it to include or to reflect how inclusive it is by calling it folk life. But um. William Thomas came up with folklore, and it was originally hyphenated UM, and he was describing these stories that he would go out into the countryside and collect from folk like he published a book of like English rural stories that included things like robin Hood and Friar talk and some of the other stories that we have become disnified over the years. This guy originally put down for the first time on pen and paper and became one of the early folklore. Yeah, and didn't they call just anyone living in rural areas. Weren't they just called folk? Which is why we sort of associate it as like being a bumpkin today. But I used that word all the time, in fact, on the Facebook wall here. That's my most common way of addressing the stuff. You should know army is hey folks. Oh, I know, it just sounds like chummy. Yeah, very folks. Folk. See there you go, y hey folks. Uh. So there are a bunch of innumerable, innumerable groups really that pass along folklore. Um, and they're called folk groups folk groups, but we can we can group them generally, not folk groups like Peter Paul Mary, Yeah, but folk groups. Yeah. I think I said it with the ELG just now, didn't I Maybe I like it. It's called the regional addiction. People get all hung up on that stuff. You gotta say this wrong. What's weird though, is like neither one of us sound like Southerners. Yeah, not really, And I mean like you were born here and you don't sound like a Southern. Yeah, I say I have certain colloquialism, so like, uh, have your picture made? Oh yeah, that's sometimes I'll say, like you mash a button instead of push a button. And there there's It's. I think people should embrace things like that regional dialect instead of getting all hung up on the Queen's English or the King's English. See right there, Yeah, that's a that's regional. I imagine either one the prince is English. Um, it's that what you're talking about is antithetical to globalization, chuck, Oh really sure, look at you regionalism smarty fans. Well, I mean that's that's counter to globalization. Globalization is turning the earth into one large village with all these shared values and everything. Regionalism is saying like, no, we'll just stay his pockets of interacting groups that have our own, our own values and traditions and customs. That I think it's on brain because I posted something today on words that are mispronounced a lot, and um, what what's up there? Oh? I mean also like banal and uh dr SEUs suppose supposed supposedly pronounced his name is so so ice. I can't remember how he pronounced it, but it's just like common words, you're probably mispronouncing. And the was on there And someone said, you guys always pronounced the wrong because supposedly, yeah, exactly, supposedly there's a rule. Not supposedly, I think there is a rule. You mean supposedly, Well, that wasn't on there. Um, Well that's a different that's just saying the wrong word. But I think the you should say the when the following noun is starts with a vowel, like the apple, not the apple, but you could say, you could say the test because the apple almost sounds like it's th h apostrophe apple. Yeah, and I get it. But the app it's just sort of a regional thing. I think in the South you might hear more the m then the snotty New Englander soon. I've never really paid that much attention to that one. I haven't either, you know why, because we are laid back, that's right, Um, all right, So what we're talking about, we're talking about people who spread the groups, the folk groups. One of those folk groups, though not Peter Paul Mary one of his children. And uh, this is a really big one because when you think about going back to your childhood, everything like the games like hide and see cop scotch. Uh, this article pointed out how you decide who's it like that is super specific to your region. Um, but also not not just that the differences regionally, but think about how intricate some of the rules were some of those games, like they were like really well thought out, intricate rules that no one ever wrote down. They were just past. Yeah, you knew it from observation, imitation orally like somebody told you. But people no one handed you a flyer called like kick the can and you you know, well one kid did, but we didn't know one like that kid. You learned the hard way not to do that. What was your How did you decide who was it? I'm sure you probably had a go to well. The author of this article mentions bubble gum, bubble gum in a dish. I've never heard that. I have heard that. Okay, I love that one. That the images it evokes, like how many pieces do you wish? And you go one to three, somebody says how many they want? And then you count out between two or three people like seven, and then whatever you laying on that person? Is it right? Yeah? Uh? Usually we did dirty dirty dish rag though, yes, I've never heard of that one. Either your mother and my mother were hanging out clothes. My mother socked your mother in the nose. Never heard it. What came after that? That's misogynistic and violent something it really was. Something else happens after that, and then it just suddenly goes to and you are a you dirty dirty dish rag? Do we did? There were three that I remember very strongly. The one potato to potato uh, engine engine number nine, Yeah, going down Chicago Line. If the train you dump the check? Do you want your money back? Oh? Yeah, I forgot that. And then maybe so who maybe so wanted their money back? Of course you want your money back. Of the train derails, now that's the kid who just wanted to get along. And then engine and or no no uh? Any meaning? Is the other one? Any meani money more kitch to talk about them though? The hollers let them go? Any renie? Is that it? And then we also there were variations on you know, usually counting out like I'm making my two hands locked together. We would do like that and and then if you when you landed on them, you would split them into two two fists and then count each one. So there were lots of variations. And uh, I mean that goes down to the neighborhood you live in, you know, it's like that specific. Yeah. We would also just leg wrestle for domination and then that person would choose who was it. I've never leg wrestled. It's not fun. Yeah, I don't. I didn't even know what it is. Really, it's exactly what it sounds like. I mean, I think have seen it. You lay on the ground and lock legs like there's no no other body parts involved, right, I mean, you're just basically on your backup on your elbows, using your legs to do basically make the other person cry or stop shout to stop. But it's not there's not like a pinning or like like an army. Yeah you can, you can pin and it's not it's one of those things like um, like the Supreme Court's view of pornography, Like there's no obvious pin it's just you just kind of know what when you see it, you know what I mean, Like you can tell you oh yeah, that's a pin, but I mean you wouldn't. Again, there's no kid like handing out a leg wrestling and you flyer that shows what counts as a pin. You just kind of know what it pens. Alright. Another folk group are families. Very rich traditions within families from everything, uh from family recipes to holiday traditions. Uh and I think, um, like whether or not you use the the plastic tinsel on your tree is technically a type of family folk lore. Yeah, Or whether you open gifts on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day, or whether or not you're you hide your Easter baskets yeah, or you burn your Christmas tree on Christmas Day, or your family gets in a huge fight every Christmas Day. Sure, that's another one rich traditions. Um. Family stories also make up traditions. So like, um, my family story about my aunt Squeaky taking shooting at President Ford, that that would count as family folklore. It's very good. Uh So within families it's another very um strong place where you see variants and motifs. Um. Well, yeah, across like all folklore, yeah, but especially within families. For me, Uh, well, I think within all families because like you know your grandmother's recipe for uh like I make the Thanksgiving dressing. What other people in the North called stuffing, we called dressing, And it's my family recipe. That has to do with what he uses the base though, doesn't it Like if it's corn based, it would be dressing. Dressing Again, if it's like bread based or wheat based, it would be stuffing. I don't know who knows, but go ahead, Sorry for interrupting. Now, that's right, minds both though, Like cornbread dressing also has uh as as either biscuits or bread in it as well. But that was my family recipe. My grandmother made it, my mom made it, she taught me, and I put my own spin on it as and that's my own motif. That's your own variation on the motif. Very variational. So so the motif would be the dressing or stuffing, and then what you do with the recipe would be the variation of it. Yeah, and I mix it up from year to year, even just kind of testing things out. Man, you are a folk rebel, that's your am. But yeah, so family recipes are very that's a common um family folklore, family generated folklore. We've got a lot of our indoctrination to just folklore in general through families, and so it was so important in some cultures, including some Native American tribes and some West West African tribes, that they would have a designated basically a folklore's what a folklore um a modern folklore researcher would call a tradition bearer who like, their job in this village or group is to tell each family their family folklore. Like that, it was that person's job to keep in charge of all of the folklore of the different families in the community. Yeah, I bet that that was a pretty cool gig. I imagine they were like the the uh, the great storytellers that they could tell a story if they're tried, the great racin tours. Um it's another word. Yeah, yeah, you like that one. Yeah. I don't know how I feel about that word. No, really like I think about it once in a while, almost every time I encountered m I don't know how I feel about that word. Interesting, I like it, did you know? Also, Chuck, while we're on this, UM, I of the one of the most amazing stories I've ever heard about paint On. It must have been on MPR or something, but they were tracking, um, the color of paint, the specific color of paint used in southern porches for ceilings. There's like a specific blue. Yeah, and um, that would count as folklore, just that color paint. That would be um the next type community folklore. That's right. But the reason I bring that up because rackon Tour. It just makes me think of like somebody sitting in a rocking chair and a porch recounting stories. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, So that is a great example, you're right of a community folklore. Um, a festival that you're telling, you know, the strawberry festival in your town is folklore. The jazz fest in New Orleans. Any sort of local custom, um that takes place within your community can all be considered folklore. Like that's how we do it around here. That's folklore, right, as long as it's not like damaging. I wonder though, like all of this stuff is um supposedly at the very least innocuous, if not positive. Yeah, that's that's my point. But I mean, surely there's negative folklore that still counts as folklore. I don't know, you know, like racism, it depends on the group, you know, that's just how we do it around here, or right or not folklore? I don't think. Well, what about something where like like stories or mythology or origin stories that support um human sacrifice among groups in the past that did that, you know, I mean, that would technically be folklore. Whatever stories they used to reinforce that, whatever traditions and rituals they had around it, that would that would be folklore. I don't know if you would call that positive. I know I wouldn't. I wouldn't either. I'd like to hear from I'm sure we would get some folklore so that are just giddy right now by the way that we're covering this, or they're shouting at their stereo. No, I bet they seem like kindly folk that would just be like excited that we're even hitting on the topic, you know, shining a light their way. They're like, you got everything wrong, but in a way that's right because you just generated entirely no folklore. Yeah, that's a good point. So, Chuckers, we talked about children, families, communities. There's all sorts of different folk groups. Those are the big ones, um, And just a second, we're going to talk about all the different folk genres right after this, so chuck, we're back. Yes, I forgot what we were talking about. Folklore. Yeah, we were talking about genres of folklore like disco and new metal and Norwegian death metal, right and other kinds of metal music. Well, no, they would have like their own folklore for sure, those groups that are into that. But I mean music is you know, that's a category. Actually, um, that was one of the things that stuck out to me. Is very specific, at least according to this University of Louisiana article. Like they were like, folklore can be this, it can be family recipes, it can be uh, the boat that your family passed down, or you know, it can be the Viking funeral that your community gives every year. But when it comes to folk music, it's like these five types of music. Yeah, you know, sure, surely. Yeah. I mean that's a little because if you're like pull my finger if and I'll fart, that's family folklore and the Bryant family, well, I mean I can guarantee you folklore would not judge that. Oh, speaking of which, did you see that thing about the oldest recorded joke I sent? Oh? Yeah, so jokes are an obvious example of folklore. Um and jokes fascinate me up because ever since I was a kid, I wondered who made up you know, this joke, like common jokes, Like someone was the first person to tell this joke, and it becomes so widespread it's just amazing to me how they get passed around. And apparently in two thousand eight this is from Reuters? Is it Routers or Reuters? The world's oldest joke was traced back to Samaria in b C. And uh it is this uh, something which has never occurred since time immemorial, Basically since time began, a young woman did not fart in her husband's lap. So that's the oldest joke. Supposedly, I'll go ahead and reach the other doesn't encount as a joke. Passingly rye observation, which is a joke? I guess it seems like folklore's definition of joke. All right, how about the six BC uh in about a pharaoh? Here's the joke. How do you entertain a board pharaoh? How you sail a boatload of young women dressed only in fishing nets down to the Nile and urged the pharaoh to go catch a fish? Supposedly, that was a joke, and then the English one. Now they're starting to get funny. Yeah, they're getting better. The British joke they found one that dates back to tenth century. Uh, what hang? And this is a bit of a riddle what hangs at a man? A bit of a body riddle? Body? Indeed, what hangs at a man's thigh? And wants to poke the hole that it's often poked before? I don't know a key. Oh yeah, so those are the oldest jokes. Well, at least by the tenth century, they were starting to take the shape of a modern joke, right, yeah. And I sent that on Facebook to our buddy Brian, Brian Highie of Conan, the writer for Conan, because he's like, this is it, this is what I've been looking for. Well, he's just he's one of the best crafters of just solid jokes that I know. So I was like, Brian, you'll appreciate this nice and he said, listen up in tonight's monologue. And I think he was kidding. But if that's actually that would be super awesome. Uh. Let's see. So we're talking about folk genres jokes specifically, um constitute what are what's called the oral genre, which is you know, jokes, poems, um. Fairy tales are a huge one. Myths, legends, Uh, basically anything that used to be told orally that these days is probably put down um on paper, but isn't necessarily because I think a game instructions for a game passing that along would be would constitute oral folklore. Yeah, but the game itself would constitute um, material folklore. I think maybe this is where the whole thing gets fuzzy, Like the edges between these things are very fuzzy and porous. There's a lot of osmos is going on between these genres. Yeah, it's a lewid thing. There's nothing wrong with that. Materials which you just mentioned, um they list as artifacts and food ways so um like food recipes, yeah, recipes or costumes uh, cultural costumes, Uh they said, carved duck decoys, even uh folded paper airplanes like I guess that little game of paper football, Like all of those are material Like how you specifically fold that paper football? Um, it was taught to you by some kid in your elementary school, and it may be different than another kid in another school. Yeah you know. Uh. And then when you mentioned music, right, at some point we did sure and that that can be anything. Um, but one that comes to mind for me especially are lullabys. They just remind me to me of like folk tradition. Depending on your family, you're gonna sing whatever lullabies you sing to your baby, right, little kids singing like ringing around the rosy, Yeah, exactly. Apparently it was about some epidemic in London. I think, oh, really, ringworm around the rosie? Yeah, like the rosie has to do with like what like your face looked like when you caught this fever flu or something like that. Well, and then it end you all fall down? Is that dying? Wow? Not to look into that. Dance is a is a big one. Uh. Any kind of rhythmic movement is generally taught within a folk group. Can you dance? No? Boy? You and I? No, those would be personal habits bad dancing, I think, Yeah. I mean I knew before I even answered that, because I know me and how I dance, and I'm picturing you and it's equally as fast. I stand still. I know what I know. I've reached the point in my life from like I don't dance, well, no, I don't even try I mean, you get me sauce at a wedding and something might happen. What do you do? Something magical might happen, like the electric slide or something, or did you just get out on the floor and go like I'm gonna live forever. I did have one of those. My my friend Jerry in Portland or no, my friend Scott n Emily in Portland at their wedding. Um, they had a jazz band and uh, we were all just having a good time and sort of dancing. And I remember very specifically, and I was much younger, but um, there was like a jazz drum breakdown and it dude, I don't know what came over me. The spirit came over me and the circle cleared and I was in the middle and I just did this like weird scat drums dance solo to this guy's thing and it went over great everyone. It was one of those like, oh my god, look at Chuck go. And I'm not saying it was good, but did your tuxedo dickie roll up at the bought me in the nose? It was pretty great though, Like it stands out in my memory as one of the best parts of the wedding for some reason. I can imagine why. I don't know if everyone else remembers. It sounds pretty great, Chuck, it was pretty great. I wish you were on vide you. Emily likes my dancing. I do a lot of TV theme song dancing to make her laugh. But it's all in the house, you know. It's it's our little secret. Well not anymore. I'll just shared with the world. I'll post videos later. What else we have? We have a belief that's a big one. Uh yeah, that's another genre which is kind of confounding until you get to a good example. This belief is like anything from mythology to religion, um too, weird customs two, all this other stuff that you would think, well, well no, wait a minute, that's that would be oral or that would be material, right. No. Belief is when folklore effects behavior, like it's good luck to do this before a wedding exactly, or I'm not leaving the house because it's Friday the thirteenth, or I'm not going to you know, um, I've got to wear black because I'm in mourning or something like that. Where you have a belief, it's a folk belief that is affecting your behavior. That's that's belief folklore. Yeah. Another good example they use is uh, the Jewish tradition when you give bread and sugar and salt to your new neighbor as a housewarming gift. I thought they gave another great example in this article too, which was, UM, you get into uh, you get rear ended by somebody in your car, and rather than getting out and screaming at them, you remember the Golden rule, which is a folklore, UM, and you calm yourself and say, it's cool, happens to the best of us. That's belief folklore in action, it says, in action, and then you call your wife and do the complaining. Can you believe this? This is idiots? Oh, it's nice to him, but you know you didn't deserve it else the Golden rule in action. Body communication is one I've never really thought about. But UM. Gestures and expressions are very much cultural specific. Um. If you think about like and here in America we might flip the bird at somebody, and England they do they do two fingers, Yeah, the two fingers up like that or the old I don't even know what that's called. With the arm and the inner elbow your arm, you know what. I think that is based on that and like the like tooth. Yeah, I think it's like an evil eye, kind of like a hex or a curse. I think that's what those are born from. Now, it's just hilarious. Yeah, somebody does that talk about diffusing the tension. You know, if you're about to fight somebody and they like put their thumb on their front tooth, atche, that's you're just gonna go over and pat him on the shoulder and say thanks for that. I like that. I'm gonna start using that. Although I had had my fake front tooth, I wouldn't want to mess with that. Well what about this one the finger on the thumb on the nose and your fingers up and twiddling. Yeah, that's an old one that reminds me. I asked you guys if you saw the breakdancing six year old right, yeah, Oh my gosh. One of the things this girl does like a rake off. She's in a competition with this maybe twelve year old boy. He's pretty good. This girl levels him and one of the things she does is like slide towards him on her knees, doing that with like her film on her nose like wagging her fingers at him, and you're like, oh, yeah, this girl is six years old that it's awesome. You have to check her out. I love that, Like everyone out there is, like Josh is mentioning this girl every other podcast, and I'm going to continue to until everybody writes in and say, yes, I've seen it. Now. The other um, the other insult is the old uh this one right here? Oh yeah, I've seen I saw that a lot in the seventies. I guess you can just probably describe. It's where you Yeah, I was trying to fingers under your chin, yeah, and flick it, flick them all together outward. Yeah yeah, yeah, like a buzz off. Buddy. You know who does that is a Maggie Simpson. She does that. Oh really Yeah, She's a classic girl. So Chuck, we could probably just keep doing this for the next four or five hours because folklore is everything. Yeah, and we both have our own folklore. Um, but I think we kind of covered it. I think so too. You got anything else right now? No, I mean I really don't like you said it's so all encompassing and broad. I think we just think it's pretty good overview Yeah, but what's neat is I mean, like, if you're even remotely interested in this, there's a whole world out there, all the stuff you take for granted. If you just go start looking into folklore research, totally open your eyes, and what's neat is you'll see your own stuff reinforced. You'll see your reflection of yourself, but you'll also see other cultures as well, and how they do bear similarities to your own, your own beliefs. And it's a lot it's a lot harder to to feel inclusive and exclusive from groups that you realize that you share some really fundamental stuff in common with, no matter how distant they are. Yeah, and that's the point I saw a lot in the research. I think it's it's pretty neat. It's a common it's a binding agent for humanity. Pretty neat, go humanity. All right, Well, if you want to learn more about folklore, you can type that word into the search bar how stuff works dot com. And since I said that, hey, there's a little bit of how stuff for stuff you snow folklore. Yeah, Uh, it's time for listener mail. I'm gonna call this, uh creepy email. Sort of when you think about it. How's that for a title, I can't wait. That's a tradition is awkwardly named listener mails by me. Okay, I wouldn't say awkward. You do pretty great with them. Okay, I appreciate it. Hey, guys and Jerry, I have just listened to your podcast on the Singularity a k a. The Rise of the Machines, and it occurred to me that the entire podcast explored the question of how and when the Singularity will happen. But since we do not know exactly what would cause it or what the results would be, isn't it entirely possible that it has already happened. It is quite conceivable that singularity happened some time ago, and that the sheens decided, knowing that humans currently believe the Singularity not to have happened, that the best course of action was to keep their sentience hidden until some appropriate future time. Uh. It is fun to imagine, he says. Fun. I say chilling through the bone. To imagine the machine simply lying in wait. As humans unaware adopt technology into every conceivable facet of modern life, then one day we will wake up and our computer screens will simply say hello. World. That is from j m oh JM. He's like he doesn't want to be targeted by the machine though they know you type that pal sure. Uh, yeah, that is a little creepy, don't you think? I never thought about it? That could It could very well be true. And if computers are sentient and they're smart enough to be quiet for now, yeah, then we're in big, big trouble because that already displays a lot of deceptiveness. I think quietly sentient was that was a pink Void song, think learning to be Quietly? Yeah. Uh, if you want to give us some great Pink Floyd titles, we love those. I think you could probably start a meme with that. Uh. You can send them to us via Twitter using our Twitter handle at s y s K podcast. You can join us on Facebook dot com slash stuff you Should Know. You can send us an email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com and has always joined us at our home on the web, Stuff you Should Know dot com For more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff Works dot com.

Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from house Stuff Works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to the podcast. I'm josh Joshua Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Jerry is over there, just Jerry uh. And that's stuff you should know that. She has a new sitcom out on that its called Jerry. It's suddenly Jerry. Um, how you doing. I'm fine as well, coming too, intrude, just checking. I'm excited about this. When I first read our article, I was a little bit like, oh, this is a little unwieldy because it's so folklore. It's just it's an amorphous. As it turns out, it's everything. Yeah, pretty much. But then you sent, um, what was that other good article from? Actually we should shout that out. It was from a I think the University of Louisiana or something like that. They have a folk life folklore department, and it was basically, we we stumbled upon some unit for teachers to teach what folklore is, and we're like, hey, it works for us, super helpful. Yeah, it was very helpful. It definitely. It took a lot of this amorphous stuff that was in our article and chipped away at the edges and give it a little more shape, you know, agreed, So, um, you did kind of hit it on the head. It's it's kind of like, um, nailing jelly to the wall, defining what folklore is, because it is so much stuff that phrases folklore. If if it isn't just me saying it, if I share it and now other people say it, it could become stuff you should know folklore oral oral folklore? Did you make that up? It was? I think I've heard it before, So that's folklore. Yeah, I guess, so it's a it's a variation though of Um, what else did I hear? Oh? Yeah, we were talking about the the nuclear fusion reactor where they were saying that keeping plasma contained is kind of like trying to hold jelly in a bunch of rubber bands. That's a nerd science folklore. That's what inspired made us say nailing jelly to the wall. I like that. It seems like it really sums it up. So folklore. Yeah. I found this other definition I thought was pretty good, which is uh, traditional art, literature, knowledge and practice that is disseminated largely through oral communication and behavioral example. Uh. And then this was the key for me. Things that people traditionally believe do no make and say. In other words, everything, Yeah, I mean, you're right, everything that that's That's about as good a definition as you're gonna find. One of the problems with studying folklore is that there are so many definitions out there. Apparently folklorists, who are people who study folklore, UM. I don't like to be too judge. It's kind of part and parcel with their um their field of study. You don't judge stuff, you just collect information. The problem is is that they've also just kind of collected definitions for folklore along the way, and there isn't one set definition that's accepted by everybody. Yeah, a folklore collected stuff. I was like, that's stupid. It wouldn't be it would be a good Why are you guys doing that? That's a good TV show? The bad folk folklore? And I might say folk here and there because I mispronounced that word often and how are you saying it? Well, a lot of times I'll say the l In fact, up until about a year ago when someone wrote it in was a stupid It's pronounced folke like f o k folk and not folk. But the weird thing is is like I hear the l missing when I hear folk weird. That's some sort of like I don't hear f o k e. Like it's clear to me that there's a fo l k in there. You hear the silence. It's a great word. Oh okay, it's beautiful. It is beautiful. Um. And another thing too that we should point out that folklore is love to point out is that, um, it is not and should not be associated with being backward or old timey or uneducated. Like I think a lot of people have that connotation in their heads that folklore is like the hillbilly on the porch, you know, when their homespun wisdoms, and it can be that, but it's it's it's not that at all. Like it's not just that, right. Um. A really good example that contradicts that is, um Snopes. Snopes dot com is basically a clearinghouse of modern folklore. I never really thought about that, you know, Um, the Nigerian prince scam. That's folklore. Yeah, it sure is. Emoticons even are considered now a form of um verbal communication verbal folklore. Yeah, And like you said, it's everything and the reason it's everything is because um it comes out of groups. Like if I just have a habit, you know where Um, I keep a rubber band twisted around my finger until it turns purple, and then I'll take it off for half an hour and then do it again. This is just some weird habit that's not folklore. Folklore is something that's shared between a group. Yeah, and uh, those groups can be like almost anything the I think them. That great article you sent and it says neighborhoods, communities, and regions, but also religious groups, families, occupations, gender like pretty much any grouping, enthusiast, hobbyists, anything you can think of that you can group more than two people together. It can be a folk group exactly. You can have like a Catholic dockyard worker who is also a member of an RC playing club, who also is a member of a book club at the local library. Right, So that one person is going to be a member of all those different folk groups, and all those folk groups are gonna have their own folklore. True. But uh, that's yeah, you're right. That's another good thing to point out is you're not just in one group. You have you spanned many, many groups, and for instance, I have family folklore. Uh, we have probably occupational folklore, you know, the old podcaster folklore for us and our colleagues. Uh, and my gender and my age and uh religious affiliation growing up, like, we all have many many groups in subgroups that we fall into, right, and we get our information from that. Yeah. One of the things that I think has been tricky about defining folklore is that there's not it's not obvious necessarily what folklore is for. Yeah, not at first blush, but if you go and read some of the people who study it. Um. The idea of folklore is that one of the main things it does is it reinforces membership in a group. It makes you feel special for being part of that group, an insider um. And then it also um reinforces the norms of that group. Like folklore is based on basically norms, customs, traditions, things that the members of the group have said, this is what you know, we identify with. Yeah, and not always too um, As that teaching site points out, not always reinforcing those norms, sometimes overturning those norms. Yeah. Like a good way to overturn the norm is to take an existing norm and turn it on its ear because it makes it really approachable to the other people in your folk group. They understand what you're doing very clearly, and it gives them a different perspective. Or using the traditional channels. Yeah, like uh. I think one example I saw somewhere was taking a traditional folk song maybe and adding verses to it to spend its meaning to the opposite, perhaps like Bob Dylan he's famous for stealing things. Or Jimmy Page. Uh oh, yeah. Have you heard that song the Zeppelin or the Yes Stairway to Heaven lawsuit? No, no, who whose song was it? Originally? I can't remember the name. I mean, this is not news. It's been around for a while, but um yeah, I mean they've been sued. Uh. It was a group that opened up for for Zeppelin on an early tour and supposedly played this song, and I think Zeppelin has I haven't looked at it up lately, but I think they have defeated the suit. But when you hear the song, you're like, oh, that sounds a little bit like the opening bit the Stairway to Heaven. So it was like the musical the music. It wasn't like any of the leader. Yeah, that that opening guitar strumming pattern, UM was pretty darn similar. But um, as any musician will tell you, everybody steals. There's only so many variations of chords and picking patterns that you can do. And uh, it's just part of the rich tradition of music. It's the nick things, respectfully, not you know, not right buster's I want a new drug kind of feeling. Yeah, I mean that's when your lawsuits come up. Um, it's not just music that there's that long tradition of stealing um or nicking or whatever you want to euphemism. It's literature is very much the same way. There's something like five or ten themes and all of literature and everything else is just basically a variation of them. And that's one of the things that folklore, uh are folk folklorists have learned through studying folklore, is that we humans share what can be called basically a common imagination. That humans across time and space, um all have a a like a certain number of slots of looking at the world. Certain things in the world capture the human imagination in a similar way in all different parts of the world, and we tend to use similar explanations for them. So you'll have independently evolving folklore among groups who've never met before, um, that seek to explain or have a story about something that is just kind of out there in the environment. Yeah, that's a good point. Um. One of the examples of that is uh, in folklore stories are frogs and toads can be found and all kinds of old stories and all cultures all over the world. That I mean, it's possible too if you're close to one another, like uh, Korea and China may have stories to overlap one another just through a common geographical boundary. But stuff like frogs and toads will pop up, you know, let's say in Europe or medieval Europe or in Asia, like places aren't even close to one another where it's inexplicable basically, right, and they'll share like a similar um personality or something in the story. So like frogs and toads are commonly thought of as shape shifting tricksters. Yeah, and I think, um, this article points out that that's probably because they go from tadpole to frog or toad and they change themselves physically. So it's um, you know, the old dummies back in the day they would just use that obvious. Obviously they can become human too, since they go from tadpole the frog exactly like the frog prince. And you you mentioned also um shared regional characteristics that are most likely the result of stories making it from one group to another, crossing borders. But among groups that are close together and UM that example you gave of East Asia, UM, Japan and Korea, Thailand, China, they all have UM. They the idea that there's a rabbit in the moon and he's using a mortar and pestle. And what that would be is a motif. Like all of them have the shared idea that there's a rabbit in the moon. Right, But then there's what are called variations of that motif. So in Japan and Korea, the rabbits making mochi, which is a sweet, squishy rice cake that often has like something even sweeter injected in like red sweetness. Right. Um. In China the rabbit is making medicine. In Thailand's husking um rice. So you have variations on what the rabbit is doing. But the motif is if you look up at the moon, there's a rabbit doing something up there. Yeah, and like we said it's most likely because of a shared border or just because simply people moving between those countries. So we'll talk about where folklore comes from. Friends, if you can believe it or not. Right after this chuckers, So we're back. We're talking folklore. We should also say folklore is actually um a fairly recent word. It was coined in eighteen forty six by a guy named William J. Toms. Yeah. He was a an early and tiquarian. He was also very interested in studying um what has now come to be called folklore or folk life. We should point out that's a modern term that people folklore is like even more yeah, because folklore has this connotation that um, that it has to do with stories, oral traditions, or even not true things. Because you've heard like, oh, that's just folklore, like an old lives tale. Yeah, exactly. So they've expanded it to include or to reflect how inclusive it is by calling it folk life. But um. William Thomas came up with folklore, and it was originally hyphenated UM, and he was describing these stories that he would go out into the countryside and collect from folk like he published a book of like English rural stories that included things like robin Hood and Friar talk and some of the other stories that we have become disnified over the years. This guy originally put down for the first time on pen and paper and became one of the early folklore. Yeah, and didn't they call just anyone living in rural areas. Weren't they just called folk? Which is why we sort of associate it as like being a bumpkin today. But I used that word all the time, in fact, on the Facebook wall here. That's my most common way of addressing the stuff. You should know army is hey folks. Oh, I know, it just sounds like chummy. Yeah, very folks. Folk. See there you go, y hey folks. Uh. So there are a bunch of innumerable, innumerable groups really that pass along folklore. Um, and they're called folk groups folk groups, but we can we can group them generally, not folk groups like Peter Paul Mary, Yeah, but folk groups. Yeah. I think I said it with the ELG just now, didn't I Maybe I like it. It's called the regional addiction. People get all hung up on that stuff. You gotta say this wrong. What's weird though, is like neither one of us sound like Southerners. Yeah, not really, And I mean like you were born here and you don't sound like a Southern. Yeah, I say I have certain colloquialism, so like, uh, have your picture made? Oh yeah, that's sometimes I'll say, like you mash a button instead of push a button. And there there's It's. I think people should embrace things like that regional dialect instead of getting all hung up on the Queen's English or the King's English. See right there, Yeah, that's a that's regional. I imagine either one the prince is English. Um, it's that what you're talking about is antithetical to globalization, chuck, Oh really sure, look at you regionalism smarty fans. Well, I mean that's that's counter to globalization. Globalization is turning the earth into one large village with all these shared values and everything. Regionalism is saying like, no, we'll just stay his pockets of interacting groups that have our own, our own values and traditions and customs. That I think it's on brain because I posted something today on words that are mispronounced a lot, and um, what what's up there? Oh? I mean also like banal and uh dr SEUs suppose supposed supposedly pronounced his name is so so ice. I can't remember how he pronounced it, but it's just like common words, you're probably mispronouncing. And the was on there And someone said, you guys always pronounced the wrong because supposedly, yeah, exactly, supposedly there's a rule. Not supposedly, I think there is a rule. You mean supposedly, Well, that wasn't on there. Um, Well that's a different that's just saying the wrong word. But I think the you should say the when the following noun is starts with a vowel, like the apple, not the apple, but you could say, you could say the test because the apple almost sounds like it's th h apostrophe apple. Yeah, and I get it. But the app it's just sort of a regional thing. I think in the South you might hear more the m then the snotty New Englander soon. I've never really paid that much attention to that one. I haven't either, you know why, because we are laid back, that's right, Um, all right, So what we're talking about, we're talking about people who spread the groups, the folk groups. One of those folk groups, though not Peter Paul Mary one of his children. And uh, this is a really big one because when you think about going back to your childhood, everything like the games like hide and see cop scotch. Uh, this article pointed out how you decide who's it like that is super specific to your region. Um, but also not not just that the differences regionally, but think about how intricate some of the rules were some of those games, like they were like really well thought out, intricate rules that no one ever wrote down. They were just past. Yeah, you knew it from observation, imitation orally like somebody told you. But people no one handed you a flyer called like kick the can and you you know, well one kid did, but we didn't know one like that kid. You learned the hard way not to do that. What was your How did you decide who was it? I'm sure you probably had a go to well. The author of this article mentions bubble gum, bubble gum in a dish. I've never heard that. I have heard that. Okay, I love that one. That the images it evokes, like how many pieces do you wish? And you go one to three, somebody says how many they want? And then you count out between two or three people like seven, and then whatever you laying on that person? Is it right? Yeah? Uh? Usually we did dirty dirty dish rag though, yes, I've never heard of that one. Either your mother and my mother were hanging out clothes. My mother socked your mother in the nose. Never heard it. What came after that? That's misogynistic and violent something it really was. Something else happens after that, and then it just suddenly goes to and you are a you dirty dirty dish rag? Do we did? There were three that I remember very strongly. The one potato to potato uh, engine engine number nine, Yeah, going down Chicago Line. If the train you dump the check? Do you want your money back? Oh? Yeah, I forgot that. And then maybe so who maybe so wanted their money back? Of course you want your money back. Of the train derails, now that's the kid who just wanted to get along. And then engine and or no no uh? Any meaning? Is the other one? Any meani money more kitch to talk about them though? The hollers let them go? Any renie? Is that it? And then we also there were variations on you know, usually counting out like I'm making my two hands locked together. We would do like that and and then if you when you landed on them, you would split them into two two fists and then count each one. So there were lots of variations. And uh, I mean that goes down to the neighborhood you live in, you know, it's like that specific. Yeah. We would also just leg wrestle for domination and then that person would choose who was it. I've never leg wrestled. It's not fun. Yeah, I don't. I didn't even know what it is. Really, it's exactly what it sounds like. I mean, I think have seen it. You lay on the ground and lock legs like there's no no other body parts involved, right, I mean, you're just basically on your backup on your elbows, using your legs to do basically make the other person cry or stop shout to stop. But it's not there's not like a pinning or like like an army. Yeah you can, you can pin and it's not it's one of those things like um, like the Supreme Court's view of pornography, Like there's no obvious pin it's just you just kind of know what when you see it, you know what I mean, Like you can tell you oh yeah, that's a pin, but I mean you wouldn't. Again, there's no kid like handing out a leg wrestling and you flyer that shows what counts as a pin. You just kind of know what it pens. Alright. Another folk group are families. Very rich traditions within families from everything, uh from family recipes to holiday traditions. Uh and I think, um, like whether or not you use the the plastic tinsel on your tree is technically a type of family folk lore. Yeah, Or whether you open gifts on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day, or whether or not you're you hide your Easter baskets yeah, or you burn your Christmas tree on Christmas Day, or your family gets in a huge fight every Christmas Day. Sure, that's another one rich traditions. Um. Family stories also make up traditions. So like, um, my family story about my aunt Squeaky taking shooting at President Ford, that that would count as family folklore. It's very good. Uh So within families it's another very um strong place where you see variants and motifs. Um. Well, yeah, across like all folklore, yeah, but especially within families. For me, Uh, well, I think within all families because like you know your grandmother's recipe for uh like I make the Thanksgiving dressing. What other people in the North called stuffing, we called dressing, And it's my family recipe. That has to do with what he uses the base though, doesn't it Like if it's corn based, it would be dressing. Dressing Again, if it's like bread based or wheat based, it would be stuffing. I don't know who knows, but go ahead, Sorry for interrupting. Now, that's right, minds both though, Like cornbread dressing also has uh as as either biscuits or bread in it as well. But that was my family recipe. My grandmother made it, my mom made it, she taught me, and I put my own spin on it as and that's my own motif. That's your own variation on the motif. Very variational. So so the motif would be the dressing or stuffing, and then what you do with the recipe would be the variation of it. Yeah, and I mix it up from year to year, even just kind of testing things out. Man, you are a folk rebel, that's your am. But yeah, so family recipes are very that's a common um family folklore, family generated folklore. We've got a lot of our indoctrination to just folklore in general through families, and so it was so important in some cultures, including some Native American tribes and some West West African tribes, that they would have a designated basically a folklore's what a folklore um a modern folklore researcher would call a tradition bearer who like, their job in this village or group is to tell each family their family folklore. Like that, it was that person's job to keep in charge of all of the folklore of the different families in the community. Yeah, I bet that that was a pretty cool gig. I imagine they were like the the uh, the great storytellers that they could tell a story if they're tried, the great racin tours. Um it's another word. Yeah, yeah, you like that one. Yeah. I don't know how I feel about that word. No, really like I think about it once in a while, almost every time I encountered m I don't know how I feel about that word. Interesting, I like it, did you know? Also, Chuck, while we're on this, UM, I of the one of the most amazing stories I've ever heard about paint On. It must have been on MPR or something, but they were tracking, um, the color of paint, the specific color of paint used in southern porches for ceilings. There's like a specific blue. Yeah, and um, that would count as folklore, just that color paint. That would be um the next type community folklore. That's right. But the reason I bring that up because rackon Tour. It just makes me think of like somebody sitting in a rocking chair and a porch recounting stories. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, So that is a great example, you're right of a community folklore. Um, a festival that you're telling, you know, the strawberry festival in your town is folklore. The jazz fest in New Orleans. Any sort of local custom, um that takes place within your community can all be considered folklore. Like that's how we do it around here. That's folklore, right, as long as it's not like damaging. I wonder though, like all of this stuff is um supposedly at the very least innocuous, if not positive. Yeah, that's that's my point. But I mean, surely there's negative folklore that still counts as folklore. I don't know, you know, like racism, it depends on the group, you know, that's just how we do it around here, or right or not folklore? I don't think. Well, what about something where like like stories or mythology or origin stories that support um human sacrifice among groups in the past that did that, you know, I mean, that would technically be folklore. Whatever stories they used to reinforce that, whatever traditions and rituals they had around it, that would that would be folklore. I don't know if you would call that positive. I know I wouldn't. I wouldn't either. I'd like to hear from I'm sure we would get some folklore so that are just giddy right now by the way that we're covering this, or they're shouting at their stereo. No, I bet they seem like kindly folk that would just be like excited that we're even hitting on the topic, you know, shining a light their way. They're like, you got everything wrong, but in a way that's right because you just generated entirely no folklore. Yeah, that's a good point. So, Chuckers, we talked about children, families, communities. There's all sorts of different folk groups. Those are the big ones, um, And just a second, we're going to talk about all the different folk genres right after this, so chuck, we're back. Yes, I forgot what we were talking about. Folklore. Yeah, we were talking about genres of folklore like disco and new metal and Norwegian death metal, right and other kinds of metal music. Well, no, they would have like their own folklore for sure, those groups that are into that. But I mean music is you know, that's a category. Actually, um, that was one of the things that stuck out to me. Is very specific, at least according to this University of Louisiana article. Like they were like, folklore can be this, it can be family recipes, it can be uh, the boat that your family passed down, or you know, it can be the Viking funeral that your community gives every year. But when it comes to folk music, it's like these five types of music. Yeah, you know, sure, surely. Yeah. I mean that's a little because if you're like pull my finger if and I'll fart, that's family folklore and the Bryant family, well, I mean I can guarantee you folklore would not judge that. Oh, speaking of which, did you see that thing about the oldest recorded joke I sent? Oh? Yeah, so jokes are an obvious example of folklore. Um and jokes fascinate me up because ever since I was a kid, I wondered who made up you know, this joke, like common jokes, Like someone was the first person to tell this joke, and it becomes so widespread it's just amazing to me how they get passed around. And apparently in two thousand eight this is from Reuters? Is it Routers or Reuters? The world's oldest joke was traced back to Samaria in b C. And uh it is this uh, something which has never occurred since time immemorial, Basically since time began, a young woman did not fart in her husband's lap. So that's the oldest joke. Supposedly, I'll go ahead and reach the other doesn't encount as a joke. Passingly rye observation, which is a joke? I guess it seems like folklore's definition of joke. All right, how about the six BC uh in about a pharaoh? Here's the joke. How do you entertain a board pharaoh? How you sail a boatload of young women dressed only in fishing nets down to the Nile and urged the pharaoh to go catch a fish? Supposedly, that was a joke, and then the English one. Now they're starting to get funny. Yeah, they're getting better. The British joke they found one that dates back to tenth century. Uh, what hang? And this is a bit of a riddle what hangs at a man? A bit of a body riddle? Body? Indeed, what hangs at a man's thigh? And wants to poke the hole that it's often poked before? I don't know a key. Oh yeah, so those are the oldest jokes. Well, at least by the tenth century, they were starting to take the shape of a modern joke, right, yeah. And I sent that on Facebook to our buddy Brian, Brian Highie of Conan, the writer for Conan, because he's like, this is it, this is what I've been looking for. Well, he's just he's one of the best crafters of just solid jokes that I know. So I was like, Brian, you'll appreciate this nice and he said, listen up in tonight's monologue. And I think he was kidding. But if that's actually that would be super awesome. Uh. Let's see. So we're talking about folk genres jokes specifically, um constitute what are what's called the oral genre, which is you know, jokes, poems, um. Fairy tales are a huge one. Myths, legends, Uh, basically anything that used to be told orally that these days is probably put down um on paper, but isn't necessarily because I think a game instructions for a game passing that along would be would constitute oral folklore. Yeah, but the game itself would constitute um, material folklore. I think maybe this is where the whole thing gets fuzzy, Like the edges between these things are very fuzzy and porous. There's a lot of osmos is going on between these genres. Yeah, it's a lewid thing. There's nothing wrong with that. Materials which you just mentioned, um they list as artifacts and food ways so um like food recipes, yeah, recipes or costumes uh, cultural costumes, Uh they said, carved duck decoys, even uh folded paper airplanes like I guess that little game of paper football, Like all of those are material Like how you specifically fold that paper football? Um, it was taught to you by some kid in your elementary school, and it may be different than another kid in another school. Yeah you know. Uh. And then when you mentioned music, right, at some point we did sure and that that can be anything. Um, but one that comes to mind for me especially are lullabys. They just remind me to me of like folk tradition. Depending on your family, you're gonna sing whatever lullabies you sing to your baby, right, little kids singing like ringing around the rosy, Yeah, exactly. Apparently it was about some epidemic in London. I think, oh, really, ringworm around the rosie? Yeah, like the rosie has to do with like what like your face looked like when you caught this fever flu or something like that. Well, and then it end you all fall down? Is that dying? Wow? Not to look into that. Dance is a is a big one. Uh. Any kind of rhythmic movement is generally taught within a folk group. Can you dance? No? Boy? You and I? No, those would be personal habits bad dancing, I think, Yeah. I mean I knew before I even answered that, because I know me and how I dance, and I'm picturing you and it's equally as fast. I stand still. I know what I know. I've reached the point in my life from like I don't dance, well, no, I don't even try I mean, you get me sauce at a wedding and something might happen. What do you do? Something magical might happen, like the electric slide or something, or did you just get out on the floor and go like I'm gonna live forever. I did have one of those. My my friend Jerry in Portland or no, my friend Scott n Emily in Portland at their wedding. Um, they had a jazz band and uh, we were all just having a good time and sort of dancing. And I remember very specifically, and I was much younger, but um, there was like a jazz drum breakdown and it dude, I don't know what came over me. The spirit came over me and the circle cleared and I was in the middle and I just did this like weird scat drums dance solo to this guy's thing and it went over great everyone. It was one of those like, oh my god, look at Chuck go. And I'm not saying it was good, but did your tuxedo dickie roll up at the bought me in the nose? It was pretty great though, Like it stands out in my memory as one of the best parts of the wedding for some reason. I can imagine why. I don't know if everyone else remembers. It sounds pretty great, Chuck, it was pretty great. I wish you were on vide you. Emily likes my dancing. I do a lot of TV theme song dancing to make her laugh. But it's all in the house, you know. It's it's our little secret. Well not anymore. I'll just shared with the world. I'll post videos later. What else we have? We have a belief that's a big one. Uh yeah, that's another genre which is kind of confounding until you get to a good example. This belief is like anything from mythology to religion, um too, weird customs two, all this other stuff that you would think, well, well no, wait a minute, that's that would be oral or that would be material, right. No. Belief is when folklore effects behavior, like it's good luck to do this before a wedding exactly, or I'm not leaving the house because it's Friday the thirteenth, or I'm not going to you know, um, I've got to wear black because I'm in mourning or something like that. Where you have a belief, it's a folk belief that is affecting your behavior. That's that's belief folklore. Yeah. Another good example they use is uh, the Jewish tradition when you give bread and sugar and salt to your new neighbor as a housewarming gift. I thought they gave another great example in this article too, which was, UM, you get into uh, you get rear ended by somebody in your car, and rather than getting out and screaming at them, you remember the Golden rule, which is a folklore, UM, and you calm yourself and say, it's cool, happens to the best of us. That's belief folklore in action, it says, in action, and then you call your wife and do the complaining. Can you believe this? This is idiots? Oh, it's nice to him, but you know you didn't deserve it else the Golden rule in action. Body communication is one I've never really thought about. But UM. Gestures and expressions are very much cultural specific. Um. If you think about like and here in America we might flip the bird at somebody, and England they do they do two fingers, Yeah, the two fingers up like that or the old I don't even know what that's called. With the arm and the inner elbow your arm, you know what. I think that is based on that and like the like tooth. Yeah, I think it's like an evil eye, kind of like a hex or a curse. I think that's what those are born from. Now, it's just hilarious. Yeah, somebody does that talk about diffusing the tension. You know, if you're about to fight somebody and they like put their thumb on their front tooth, atche, that's you're just gonna go over and pat him on the shoulder and say thanks for that. I like that. I'm gonna start using that. Although I had had my fake front tooth, I wouldn't want to mess with that. Well what about this one the finger on the thumb on the nose and your fingers up and twiddling. Yeah, that's an old one that reminds me. I asked you guys if you saw the breakdancing six year old right, yeah, Oh my gosh. One of the things this girl does like a rake off. She's in a competition with this maybe twelve year old boy. He's pretty good. This girl levels him and one of the things she does is like slide towards him on her knees, doing that with like her film on her nose like wagging her fingers at him, and you're like, oh, yeah, this girl is six years old that it's awesome. You have to check her out. I love that, Like everyone out there is, like Josh is mentioning this girl every other podcast, and I'm going to continue to until everybody writes in and say, yes, I've seen it. Now. The other um, the other insult is the old uh this one right here? Oh yeah, I've seen I saw that a lot in the seventies. I guess you can just probably describe. It's where you Yeah, I was trying to fingers under your chin, yeah, and flick it, flick them all together outward. Yeah yeah, yeah, like a buzz off. Buddy. You know who does that is a Maggie Simpson. She does that. Oh really Yeah, She's a classic girl. So Chuck, we could probably just keep doing this for the next four or five hours because folklore is everything. Yeah, and we both have our own folklore. Um, but I think we kind of covered it. I think so too. You got anything else right now? No, I mean I really don't like you said it's so all encompassing and broad. I think we just think it's pretty good overview Yeah, but what's neat is I mean, like, if you're even remotely interested in this, there's a whole world out there, all the stuff you take for granted. If you just go start looking into folklore research, totally open your eyes, and what's neat is you'll see your own stuff reinforced. You'll see your reflection of yourself, but you'll also see other cultures as well, and how they do bear similarities to your own, your own beliefs. And it's a lot it's a lot harder to to feel inclusive and exclusive from groups that you realize that you share some really fundamental stuff in common with, no matter how distant they are. Yeah, and that's the point I saw a lot in the research. I think it's it's pretty neat. It's a common it's a binding agent for humanity. Pretty neat, go humanity. All right, Well, if you want to learn more about folklore, you can type that word into the search bar how stuff works dot com. And since I said that, hey, there's a little bit of how stuff for stuff you snow folklore. Yeah, Uh, it's time for listener mail. I'm gonna call this, uh creepy email. Sort of when you think about it. How's that for a title, I can't wait. That's a tradition is awkwardly named listener mails by me. Okay, I wouldn't say awkward. You do pretty great with them. Okay, I appreciate it. Hey, guys and Jerry, I have just listened to your podcast on the Singularity a k a. The Rise of the Machines, and it occurred to me that the entire podcast explored the question of how and when the Singularity will happen. But since we do not know exactly what would cause it or what the results would be, isn't it entirely possible that it has already happened. It is quite conceivable that singularity happened some time ago, and that the sheens decided, knowing that humans currently believe the Singularity not to have happened, that the best course of action was to keep their sentience hidden until some appropriate future time. Uh. It is fun to imagine, he says. Fun. I say chilling through the bone. To imagine the machine simply lying in wait. As humans unaware adopt technology into every conceivable facet of modern life, then one day we will wake up and our computer screens will simply say hello. World. That is from j m oh JM. He's like he doesn't want to be targeted by the machine though they know you type that pal sure. Uh, yeah, that is a little creepy, don't you think? I never thought about it? That could It could very well be true. And if computers are sentient and they're smart enough to be quiet for now, yeah, then we're in big, big trouble because that already displays a lot of deceptiveness. I think quietly sentient was that was a pink Void song, think learning to be Quietly? Yeah. Uh, if you want to give us some great Pink Floyd titles, we love those. I think you could probably start a meme with that. Uh. You can send them to us via Twitter using our Twitter handle at s y s K podcast. You can join us on Facebook dot com slash stuff you Should Know. You can send us an email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com and has always joined us at our home on the web, Stuff you Should Know dot com For more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff Works dot com.