Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too. And this is a gold fashioned barn burner of a stuff you Should Know type topic.

Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too. And this is a gold fashioned barn burner of a stuff you Should Know type topic.

Woo whizbang Chuck.

Woo whizbang Chuck.

This was somebody sent this in as a suggestion recently.

This was somebody sent this in as a suggestion recently.

I think, right, yeah, you know, I think you and I had both been aware of this story. But we did get a recent suggestion from David Departcher.

I think, right, yeah, you know, I think you and I had both been aware of this story. But we did get a recent suggestion from David Departcher.

Yeah, David Parcher, I think just a couple of weeks ago sent in the suggestion and look at the timing.

Yeah, David Parcher, I think just a couple of weeks ago sent in the suggestion and look at the timing.

Yeah, well, thank you, David. And we're going to talk about another David, that is David Hahn, the Nuclear Boy Scout.

Yeah, well, thank you, David. And we're going to talk about another David, that is David Hahn, the Nuclear Boy Scout.

Yep.

Yep.

And this is one of those where we owe a huge debt to a single human because this story was may have just gone fairly unnoticed as a pretty localized local news paper item if it hadn't have been found by a gentleman named Ken Silverstein, who ended up writing a very large piece in Harper's Magazine and then a book called The Radioactive Boy Scout colon the True story of a boy in his backyard nuclear reactor, so big, thanks to Ken. A lot of this came from your work.

And this is one of those where we owe a huge debt to a single human because this story was may have just gone fairly unnoticed as a pretty localized local news paper item if it hadn't have been found by a gentleman named Ken Silverstein, who ended up writing a very large piece in Harper's Magazine and then a book called The Radioactive Boy Scout colon the True story of a boy in his backyard nuclear reactor, so big, thanks to Ken. A lot of this came from your work.

Yeah, and shout out also to the journalists from the Natural Resources News Service, which is this investigative journalist group that just as a public good like investigate stories and then turn around and give them to news outlets. And apparently that's how Ken came across the story and began researching it. So there's two people that were responsible for it at least.

Yeah, and shout out also to the journalists from the Natural Resources News Service, which is this investigative journalist group that just as a public good like investigate stories and then turn around and give them to news outlets. And apparently that's how Ken came across the story and began researching it. So there's two people that were responsible for it at least.

Yeah, and three because we have to count David Hahn, the Michigan teenager who in the nineties managed to create a nuclear reaction in the potting shed of his mom's house. It is a story that is interesting and amazing but also very sad in its ending.

Yeah, and three because we have to count David Hahn, the Michigan teenager who in the nineties managed to create a nuclear reaction in the potting shed of his mom's house. It is a story that is interesting and amazing but also very sad in its ending.

Yeah, and technically we should thank five people because it took Patty and Ken Han to reproduce and create David Hahn. So we're at five people now that we need to thank.

Yeah, and technically we should thank five people because it took Patty and Ken Han to reproduce and create David Hahn. So we're at five people now that we need to thank.

All right, So David was born October nineteen seventy six. That's a year you were born.

All right, So David was born October nineteen seventy six. That's a year you were born.

Right, Yeah. I was just a couple months older than him.

Right, Yeah. I was just a couple months older than him.

Yeah, and look what this guy did. Yeah, what have you ever done?

Yeah, and look what this guy did. Yeah, what have you ever done?

Thanks for that?

Thanks for that?

You gotta hit podcasts. You're not sweating it.

You gotta hit podcasts. You're not sweating it.

Oh, I'm sweating.

Oh, I'm sweating.

When he was a little And we say this because it very much figures into the end of David's story. It's very sad. But his mother, Patty was diagnosed with depression and paranoid schizophrenia, was hospitalized through his early childhood off and on, and she would eventually take her own life in nineteen ninety six.

When he was a little And we say this because it very much figures into the end of David's story. It's very sad. But his mother, Patty was diagnosed with depression and paranoid schizophrenia, was hospitalized through his early childhood off and on, and she would eventually take her own life in nineteen ninety six.

Yeah, and that we'll play into the story later on. But Patty remains a character throughout most of it. So too does David's father, Ken, who we mentioned. He's person five. We need to thank Patty and Ken got divorced, I think when David was really little, like maybe a toddler, and Ken ended up marrying a coworker. Person number six we need to thank Kathy missing. Ken and Kathy were both engineers at General Motors. This whole thing took place in the suburbs of Detroit, specifically Clinton Township, Michigan, specifically later on, in a subdivision called Golf Manor as we'll see. But so David lives with Ken and Cathy, and then on weekends he goes and stays with his mom, Patty and her boyfriend. Person number seven who we need to thank Michael Polassic, and they're the ones I believe who lived in golf Manor and under by all accounts, like David lived a pretty normal childhood, just doing normal childhood things. It wasn't until he was ten that his life found its purpose, which is pretty early if you think about it, for your life to find its purpose.

Yeah, and that we'll play into the story later on. But Patty remains a character throughout most of it. So too does David's father, Ken, who we mentioned. He's person five. We need to thank Patty and Ken got divorced, I think when David was really little, like maybe a toddler, and Ken ended up marrying a coworker. Person number six we need to thank Kathy missing. Ken and Kathy were both engineers at General Motors. This whole thing took place in the suburbs of Detroit, specifically Clinton Township, Michigan, specifically later on, in a subdivision called Golf Manor as we'll see. But so David lives with Ken and Cathy, and then on weekends he goes and stays with his mom, Patty and her boyfriend. Person number seven who we need to thank Michael Polassic, and they're the ones I believe who lived in golf Manor and under by all accounts, like David lived a pretty normal childhood, just doing normal childhood things. It wasn't until he was ten that his life found its purpose, which is pretty early if you think about it, for your life to find its purpose.

Yeah, and by the way, if you live in golf Manor, hold your emails, we know you're in Commerce Township.

Yeah, and by the way, if you live in golf Manor, hold your emails, we know you're in Commerce Township.

Yes, thank you for that. I think his dad lived in Clinton Township.

Yes, thank you for that. I think his dad lived in Clinton Township.

Yeah, it's probably like where I lived in New Jersey. It's like all these old townships just run together.

Yeah, it's probably like where I lived in New Jersey. It's like all these old townships just run together.

Yeah, that's what it looked like on the map.

Yeah, that's what it looked like on the map.

Yeah. So the person we really need to thank this is number eight.

Yeah. So the person we really need to thank this is number eight.

Person eight.

Person eight.

Is, like you mentioned, when David was ten years old, his step mom's father, so I guess his step grandfather if you count that as a thing. He was also an engineer at GM. He gave a little David a book called the Golden Book of Chemistry Experiments, and little David was fascinated with science and chemistry, but in particular with the stories of Mary and Pierre Currie and their radium discovery and the glow. I think the glow of that whole thing really enthrall this young guy.

Is, like you mentioned, when David was ten years old, his step mom's father, so I guess his step grandfather if you count that as a thing. He was also an engineer at GM. He gave a little David a book called the Golden Book of Chemistry Experiments, and little David was fascinated with science and chemistry, but in particular with the stories of Mary and Pierre Currie and their radium discovery and the glow. I think the glow of that whole thing really enthrall this young guy.

Yeah, this book was heavily illustrated and like the instructions kind of looked had the same look as like those Ripley's Believe it or not. Yeah, comic strips almost totally something that would appeal to a kid that age are a little older. You can find it online in its entirety as a PDF. And I looked at that illustration. I don't really know what he saw, and it's actually black and white that glows to some lines coming off of a beaker or whatever.

Yeah, this book was heavily illustrated and like the instructions kind of looked had the same look as like those Ripley's Believe it or not. Yeah, comic strips almost totally something that would appeal to a kid that age are a little older. You can find it online in its entirety as a PDF. And I looked at that illustration. I don't really know what he saw, and it's actually black and white that glows to some lines coming off of a beaker or whatever.

But imagination, my friend, for.

But imagination, my friend, for.

Some reason, it enthralled him so much so that within two years of receiving that book, he was devouring his father's chemistry textbooks at age twelve.

Some reason, it enthralled him so much so that within two years of receiving that book, he was devouring his father's chemistry textbooks at age twelve.

Yeah, so he was. I mean, these were books that were more advanced than his age. Clearly a smart guy. At the age of fourteen, he apparently made nitroglycerin by himself, which evidently isn't the hardest thing to do, but is very dangerous to do. There are other stories like he brought wanted to make his own fireworks boy scout camp, so we brought some powdered magnesium. It ended up catching on fire and ruined a tent. So what else. He tried to develop a self tanning method that didn't work out, right.

Yeah, so he was. I mean, these were books that were more advanced than his age. Clearly a smart guy. At the age of fourteen, he apparently made nitroglycerin by himself, which evidently isn't the hardest thing to do, but is very dangerous to do. There are other stories like he brought wanted to make his own fireworks boy scout camp, so we brought some powdered magnesium. It ended up catching on fire and ruined a tent. So what else. He tried to develop a self tanning method that didn't work out, right.

Yeah, he overdosed on Kantha's anthen, which I can't remember which one which episode that came up in, but it's a pigment that turned your skin orange from the inside out. And that's what he did. He was trying to come up with a self tanning method that didn't use any kind of UV radiation.

Yeah, he overdosed on Kantha's anthen, which I can't remember which one which episode that came up in, but it's a pigment that turned your skin orange from the inside out. And that's what he did. He was trying to come up with a self tanning method that didn't use any kind of UV radiation.

Yeah, no comment, but he was that kind of dude.

Yeah, no comment, but he was that kind of dude.

He would just turn up at like a Scout meeting or something bright orange and be like, yeah, too much Cantha's anthen.

He would just turn up at like a Scout meeting or something bright orange and be like, yeah, too much Cantha's anthen.

So yeah, he's exactly that kid. He's also the kind of kid who essentially destroys his bedroom because he's doing science. The walls were wrecked, the carpet was stayed, they had to move the carpet out. Eventually, his dad was like, listen, this is getting serious. You're destroying our home. You got to move into the basement first of all, and when we're not here, you can't be in here either. They took away equipment, they took away some chemicals, and finally they said, all right, this is out of hand. You can't do this anymore. So they said, all right, I'll do it, like every divorce kid says, I'll do it at the other.

So yeah, he's exactly that kid. He's also the kind of kid who essentially destroys his bedroom because he's doing science. The walls were wrecked, the carpet was stayed, they had to move the carpet out. Eventually, his dad was like, listen, this is getting serious. You're destroying our home. You got to move into the basement first of all, and when we're not here, you can't be in here either. They took away equipment, they took away some chemicals, and finally they said, all right, this is out of hand. You can't do this anymore. So they said, all right, I'll do it, like every divorce kid says, I'll do it at the other.

Parents house, that's right, And so he did. He ended up setting up a lab in his mom's potting shit and golf manor in commerce township. And this is where the story really starts to kind of take off, because his dad was getting really worried that his son was basically creating and selling drugs, like that's what he was doing with his chemistry experiments, and so like they would he and his stepmom would drop in in the library when he was supposedly there to see if he was there. Like they really did not trust this fascin with chemistry, which I mean, I can understand if your kid blows himself up a couple of times, you're like, what are you doing exactly here?

Parents house, that's right, And so he did. He ended up setting up a lab in his mom's potting shit and golf manor in commerce township. And this is where the story really starts to kind of take off, because his dad was getting really worried that his son was basically creating and selling drugs, like that's what he was doing with his chemistry experiments, and so like they would he and his stepmom would drop in in the library when he was supposedly there to see if he was there. Like they really did not trust this fascin with chemistry, which I mean, I can understand if your kid blows himself up a couple of times, you're like, what are you doing exactly here?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I don't know if he knew that David went and set up a lab in his mom's potting shed or not and just was like, it's fine as long as side of my house. I'm not sure. I've never seen that either way. But one thing that he did do to try to be like, okay, I think you're creating drugs. You're probably on them, you may or may not be selling them. None of those seem to be true. From what I can tell. You need to become an eagle scout. And he pushed his son to become an eagle scout.

So I don't know if he knew that David went and set up a lab in his mom's potting shed or not and just was like, it's fine as long as side of my house. I'm not sure. I've never seen that either way. But one thing that he did do to try to be like, okay, I think you're creating drugs. You're probably on them, you may or may not be selling them. None of those seem to be true. From what I can tell. You need to become an eagle scout. And he pushed his son to become an eagle scout.

Yeah, and that's exactly what he did, as we will later find out. But when it came to time per merit badge selection, he said, I want the one that says atomic energy, and the scout master said, I think he told the writer of the book, no one had ever chosen that before in the history of the troop, right, So it kind of reminds me of the Brian Coxceine and Rushmore with Bill Murray when he says he's one of the worst students we've got. I can just picture Brian Cox saying that that no one's ever tried for this badge before. But it was a legit badge. It's kind of funny that it existed. It's different now, as we'll see. But in nineteen sixty three they introduced the atomic energy badge. It came with a pamphlet that they created with the nuclear energy industry that turned out to have a lot of really useful information. Almost like a starter kit on how to like source radioactive elements in the real world. Yeah, and how to get your own reactor going.

Yeah, and that's exactly what he did, as we will later find out. But when it came to time per merit badge selection, he said, I want the one that says atomic energy, and the scout master said, I think he told the writer of the book, no one had ever chosen that before in the history of the troop, right, So it kind of reminds me of the Brian Coxceine and Rushmore with Bill Murray when he says he's one of the worst students we've got. I can just picture Brian Cox saying that that no one's ever tried for this badge before. But it was a legit badge. It's kind of funny that it existed. It's different now, as we'll see. But in nineteen sixty three they introduced the atomic energy badge. It came with a pamphlet that they created with the nuclear energy industry that turned out to have a lot of really useful information. Almost like a starter kit on how to like source radioactive elements in the real world. Yeah, and how to get your own reactor going.

Yeah. One of the projects you could do was to build your own Geiger Counter. Like it was serious stuff.

Yeah. One of the projects you could do was to build your own Geiger Counter. Like it was serious stuff.

Yeah, maybe so legit that, Like I said, the boy Scouts would eventually change that badge. I think probably because of what happened with David in two thousand and five. They replaced it with the Nuclear Science Badge.

Yeah, maybe so legit that, Like I said, the boy Scouts would eventually change that badge. I think probably because of what happened with David in two thousand and five. They replaced it with the Nuclear Science Badge.

Yes, so he's still working on the original, the Atomic Energy Badge from nineteen sixty three. Right, Oh, yeah, So he's just devouring this. He's having the best time. He visits a hospital ward to learn about X rays, which is part of the Merit Badge certification. The thing that really changed things, though, Chuck, is he decided just these things the Merit Badge was having him do. Like one of the things was draw a diagram of a fission reaction, or build a model of a nuclear reactor, but a model like a cardboard model basically, or paper machine, or yes, or I will create my own nuclear reactor in my mom's potting shed. He decided he was so psyched about atomic energy that he wanted to do it. Himself.

Yes, so he's still working on the original, the Atomic Energy Badge from nineteen sixty three. Right, Oh, yeah, So he's just devouring this. He's having the best time. He visits a hospital ward to learn about X rays, which is part of the Merit Badge certification. The thing that really changed things, though, Chuck, is he decided just these things the Merit Badge was having him do. Like one of the things was draw a diagram of a fission reaction, or build a model of a nuclear reactor, but a model like a cardboard model basically, or paper machine, or yes, or I will create my own nuclear reactor in my mom's potting shed. He decided he was so psyched about atomic energy that he wanted to do it. Himself.

Yeah. I mean, I guess you do the model and you're like, hey, that wasn't so hard. Let me see if I can do it for real. And he wanted to build, and you know, this shows that he was a kid. I think. I don't think this was to cause harm. He wanted to build a neutron gun, and the way I just for my research this is speculation. But it didn't seem like he was like I want to build a neutron gun to try and like blow up the city that I live in.

Yeah. I mean, I guess you do the model and you're like, hey, that wasn't so hard. Let me see if I can do it for real. And he wanted to build, and you know, this shows that he was a kid. I think. I don't think this was to cause harm. He wanted to build a neutron gun, and the way I just for my research this is speculation. But it didn't seem like he was like I want to build a neutron gun to try and like blow up the city that I live in.

Not at all.

Not at all.

It seemed more like a kid who was really into science and sci fi and chemistry and wanted to make a little pew pew gun.

It seemed more like a kid who was really into science and sci fi and chemistry and wanted to make a little pew pew gun.

Yeah. I think neutron gun is a it's a misleading term. I can't get the Nintendo Duck Hunt gun out of my head whenever I hear neutron gun. But really, what a neutron gun is, at least the one that David made. It's a block of lead with a cavity carved out, and you put radioactive material in the cavity and then cover it over with like aluminum foil, and then you just point the aluminum foil side of that block of lead at what you want to irradiate, and then you try to start a chain reaction, a nuclear reaction. That seems to be the sum total of his goals. He wasn't trying to build a bomb, he wasn't trying to sell plutonium to the Libyans, he wasn't doing anything like that. He just wanted to see if he could start a nuclear chain reaction, this thing that had fascinated him since he was ten years old. And so we set about doing that with help from this eagle scout merit badge pamphlet.

Yeah. I think neutron gun is a it's a misleading term. I can't get the Nintendo Duck Hunt gun out of my head whenever I hear neutron gun. But really, what a neutron gun is, at least the one that David made. It's a block of lead with a cavity carved out, and you put radioactive material in the cavity and then cover it over with like aluminum foil, and then you just point the aluminum foil side of that block of lead at what you want to irradiate, and then you try to start a chain reaction, a nuclear reaction. That seems to be the sum total of his goals. He wasn't trying to build a bomb, he wasn't trying to sell plutonium to the Libyans, he wasn't doing anything like that. He just wanted to see if he could start a nuclear chain reaction, this thing that had fascinated him since he was ten years old. And so we set about doing that with help from this eagle scout merit badge pamphlet.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, so that's the whole thing that much more nuts.

Yeah, so that's the whole thing that much more nuts.

Yeah. And also by adopting a persona as a professor, because he starts writing into organizations, trying to get information, trying to get materials, trying to get schematics. He said he was Professor Hahn that taught at his high school, Chipawa Valley High School.

Yeah. And also by adopting a persona as a professor, because he starts writing into organizations, trying to get information, trying to get materials, trying to get schematics. He said he was Professor Hahn that taught at his high school, Chipawa Valley High School.

Oh goat and chipmunks are they? I don't know.

Oh goat and chipmunks are they? I don't know.

And over the next few years, basically and apparently you know, he he applied himself. He didn't apply himself in school. He was smart, but he was failing almost failing out, basically barely passing, like the math and English exams needed to graduate eventually. But that is to say these letters had like spelling errors and grammatical errors. It didn't seem like they were written by a professor. But people bought it, and before you know it, he's like corresponding as a professor to these adults.

And over the next few years, basically and apparently you know, he he applied himself. He didn't apply himself in school. He was smart, but he was failing almost failing out, basically barely passing, like the math and English exams needed to graduate eventually. But that is to say these letters had like spelling errors and grammatical errors. It didn't seem like they were written by a professor. But people bought it, and before you know it, he's like corresponding as a professor to these adults.

Yeah, and these adults are just totally into this correspondence. They're really enjoying helping this who they think a high school physics teacher learn the stuff he's looking for about nuclear energy to ostensibly go and teach to the kids. Right, So this correspondence is like genuine. The only thing illegitimate about it was that he was misrepresenting who he actually was, Yeah, a professor rather than a high school student. But other than that, everything else about it seems to be pretty neat.

Yeah, and these adults are just totally into this correspondence. They're really enjoying helping this who they think a high school physics teacher learn the stuff he's looking for about nuclear energy to ostensibly go and teach to the kids. Right, So this correspondence is like genuine. The only thing illegitimate about it was that he was misrepresenting who he actually was, Yeah, a professor rather than a high school student. But other than that, everything else about it seems to be pretty neat.

Yeah, except for the fact that it's dangerous and illegal.

Yeah, except for the fact that it's dangerous and illegal.

Yes. So one of the people that he corresponded with, I think he corresponded with him the most, was named Donald erb e Erb and he was the guy who was the head of the department that produces isotopes. If you need isotopes, you can go to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. This is not you, but like, if you are in some sort of industry that uses isotopes, and this herb will be like, I got you, I got you covered. For some reason, they come in these little baggies with like card suits printed all over him. It's weird. That's an herb kind of touch.

Yes. So one of the people that he corresponded with, I think he corresponded with him the most, was named Donald erb e Erb and he was the guy who was the head of the department that produces isotopes. If you need isotopes, you can go to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. This is not you, but like, if you are in some sort of industry that uses isotopes, and this herb will be like, I got you, I got you covered. For some reason, they come in these little baggies with like card suits printed all over him. It's weird. That's an herb kind of touch.

It's so nice.

It's so nice.

But he was. He worked for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and nobody helped David Hahn more than Donald erb did again unwittingly.

But he was. He worked for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and nobody helped David Hahn more than Donald erb did again unwittingly.

Yeah, absolutely, So should we take a break.

Yeah, absolutely, So should we take a break.

We should?

We should?

Okay, all right, I was about to keep going, but let's take a break, and we're going to talk about his pursuit of radioactive materials right after this.

Okay, all right, I was about to keep going, but let's take a break, and we're going to talk about his pursuit of radioactive materials right after this.

I don't know.

I don't know.

M M.

M M.

By the way, Chuck, it's the Chipewa Valley, Big Red, which appears to be a giant cardinal. If you ask me, that was a that was a missed, missed opportunity. Chipmunks, chip chipmunks, the rabbit chipmunks.

By the way, Chuck, it's the Chipewa Valley, Big Red, which appears to be a giant cardinal. If you ask me, that was a that was a missed, missed opportunity. Chipmunks, chip chipmunks, the rabbit chipmunks.

Yeah, I love it, all right. So when we left off, David han was getting serious about building this uh nuclear reactor. He needs material to do that, so and we should point out that, you know, I said it was dangerous. It was dangerous. He did know this. He still pursued it, but he like he had a lead shield that he worked with. He threw away his contaminated clothes. He left his shoes in there and didn't take them in his house, so.

Yeah, I love it, all right. So when we left off, David han was getting serious about building this uh nuclear reactor. He needs material to do that, so and we should point out that, you know, I said it was dangerous. It was dangerous. He did know this. He still pursued it, but he like he had a lead shield that he worked with. He threw away his contaminated clothes. He left his shoes in there and didn't take them in his house, so.

It was like it was driving shoes, but in a potting show he was building a breeder reactor.

It was like it was driving shoes, but in a potting show he was building a breeder reactor.

Do you have driving shoes? Is that a thing?

Do you have driving shoes? Is that a thing?

I know that it's a thing from watching old episodes of Frasier.

I know that it's a thing from watching old episodes of Frasier.

I've never heard that.

I've never heard that.

Yes, you've seen driving shoes. People wear them and they're totally unaware that you're not supposed to wear them out of your car. But it's like, if your car is so nice, you take off your outdoor shoes and put on your driving shoes that never leave your car, and that way you don't get car dirty. Yeah.

Yes, you've seen driving shoes. People wear them and they're totally unaware that you're not supposed to wear them out of your car. But it's like, if your car is so nice, you take off your outdoor shoes and put on your driving shoes that never leave your car, and that way you don't get car dirty. Yeah.

I don't know if I have seen them. I guess I just you have. You did?

I don't know if I have seen them. I guess I just you have. You did?

They're like they look kind of like a cross between the loafer and a moccasin. And then the dead giveaway is the tread on the bottom comes up the back of the heel as well. Because of the position that your foot is in when you're driving, it gives you grip.

They're like they look kind of like a cross between the loafer and a moccasin. And then the dead giveaway is the tread on the bottom comes up the back of the heel as well. Because of the position that your foot is in when you're driving, it gives you grip.

All right, I'm gonna have to look this up. You've seen them all right, all right, so that's amazing. Fifty two years old never knew about this.

All right, I'm gonna have to look this up. You've seen them all right, all right, so that's amazing. Fifty two years old never knew about this.

I was only probably forty when I learned about it, So I don't feel bad.

I was only probably forty when I learned about it, So I don't feel bad.

Yeah, all right. So he starts looking for materials, and these are just a few sort of stories about he would go about that he wanted some amoricium two forty one for this neutron gun. In the booklet that he got from the Boy Scouts said you can get the stuff in smoke detectors. So he tries to steal them from the Boy Scout camp, got caught and sent home early. Then he writes smoke detector companies saying I need a bunch of these things for a school project. Eventually one company sold him one hundred broken ones for one hundred bucks. Couldn't figure out how to find this amoresium, so got in touch with another smoke detector company. It was like, oh, well, here's where you find it, and was able to extract amorsium enough to like weld together with a blowtorch.

Yeah, all right. So he starts looking for materials, and these are just a few sort of stories about he would go about that he wanted some amoricium two forty one for this neutron gun. In the booklet that he got from the Boy Scouts said you can get the stuff in smoke detectors. So he tries to steal them from the Boy Scout camp, got caught and sent home early. Then he writes smoke detector companies saying I need a bunch of these things for a school project. Eventually one company sold him one hundred broken ones for one hundred bucks. Couldn't figure out how to find this amoresium, so got in touch with another smoke detector company. It was like, oh, well, here's where you find it, and was able to extract amorsium enough to like weld together with a blowtorch.

Yes, So remember I was talking about. The neutron gun is a lump of lead with a cavity hollowed out and then you put your radioactive material in the cavity of lead. No radioactive material, that's right, Amrisium is I looked up why it would be in smoke detectors. Did you see why? No, it's really interesting just for a second. So a marisium it because of its radioactive decay. It creates a flow of ions, positive and negative ions that are are moved across like this metal plate. And there's a constant movement of ions that this americium is creating from the air around it. And when smoke interacts with those ions, it actually breaks that flow. That flow is detected by the smoke detector, which triggers it to go off. Isn't that just so bizarre. That's how your smoke detector works.

Yes, So remember I was talking about. The neutron gun is a lump of lead with a cavity hollowed out and then you put your radioactive material in the cavity of lead. No radioactive material, that's right, Amrisium is I looked up why it would be in smoke detectors. Did you see why? No, it's really interesting just for a second. So a marisium it because of its radioactive decay. It creates a flow of ions, positive and negative ions that are are moved across like this metal plate. And there's a constant movement of ions that this americium is creating from the air around it. And when smoke interacts with those ions, it actually breaks that flow. That flow is detected by the smoke detector, which triggers it to go off. Isn't that just so bizarre. That's how your smoke detector works.

And that's how they still work.

And that's how they still work.

Yeah, oh yeah, there's still a marisium in smoke detectors today.

Yeah, oh yeah, there's still a marisium in smoke detectors today.

Amazing.

Amazing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you said he built his own Geiger counter. I don't know if it was this one or if he ended up getting the other one, but he would drive around Upper Michigan with this Geiger counter on, just looking for naturally occurring uranium out in the world. And then eventually he's like, this isn't working out, so he got a Czechoslovakian firm that the NRC told him about and sourced uranium.

So you said he built his own Geiger counter. I don't know if it was this one or if he ended up getting the other one, but he would drive around Upper Michigan with this Geiger counter on, just looking for naturally occurring uranium out in the world. And then eventually he's like, this isn't working out, so he got a Czechoslovakian firm that the NRC told him about and sourced uranium.

Or Yeah, he had that Geiger counter mounted to his dashboard and apparently anytime he drove he had it turned on. Isn't that amazing?

Or Yeah, he had that Geiger counter mounted to his dashboard and apparently anytime he drove he had it turned on. Isn't that amazing?

Yeah, I mean that's what you gotta find this stuff.

Yeah, I mean that's what you gotta find this stuff.

And he actually did find some stuff called pitch blend and it's a source of low grade uranium and he tried to extract it, but he couldn't purify it enough. So, like you said, he was like, well, just buy some pure uranium from a firm in Czechoslovakia that he heard about, either from the pamphlet or from Donald or one of the two.

And he actually did find some stuff called pitch blend and it's a source of low grade uranium and he tried to extract it, but he couldn't purify it enough. So, like you said, he was like, well, just buy some pure uranium from a firm in Czechoslovakia that he heard about, either from the pamphlet or from Donald or one of the two.

Yeah. Another thing he did was the little mantle like the little mesh sacks that you tie on to a gas lantern. He bought thousands of those because they have little tiny amounts of thorium two thirty two, and so you know, he buys that of these from surplus stores, buys thousands of dollars in lithium batteries to extract lithium. So he's been very you know, I think, showing a lot of initiative at least how to find this stuff.

Yeah. Another thing he did was the little mantle like the little mesh sacks that you tie on to a gas lantern. He bought thousands of those because they have little tiny amounts of thorium two thirty two, and so you know, he buys that of these from surplus stores, buys thousands of dollars in lithium batteries to extract lithium. So he's been very you know, I think, showing a lot of initiative at least how to find this stuff.

Yeah, I mean, like he's using is his after school job money to buy one thousand dollars in lithium batteries to purify the thorium that he got from the gas lanterns that he purchased and extracted it from. Like, I can't imagine how much time and effort this took. And by the way, he did purify that thorium pretty well. I saw that he got it to nine thousand times the level found in nature of radioactivity and about one hundred and seventy times the level that you would need a license from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to possess.

Yeah, I mean, like he's using is his after school job money to buy one thousand dollars in lithium batteries to purify the thorium that he got from the gas lanterns that he purchased and extracted it from. Like, I can't imagine how much time and effort this took. And by the way, he did purify that thorium pretty well. I saw that he got it to nine thousand times the level found in nature of radioactivity and about one hundred and seventy times the level that you would need a license from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to possess.

He also went around, of course, where you're going to find old, dangerous radioactive things, junk yards and antique shops. So he would take that Geiger counter into a junk shop or an antique store and he would walk around until something lit up, like radium paint if you remember our I think it was pretty excellent podcasts on the Radium Girls, and he would find like radium paint in an old clock.

He also went around, of course, where you're going to find old, dangerous radioactive things, junk yards and antique shops. So he would take that Geiger counter into a junk shop or an antique store and he would walk around until something lit up, like radium paint if you remember our I think it was pretty excellent podcasts on the Radium Girls, and he would find like radium paint in an old clock.

Yeah. Yeah, he found a vial of paint just tucked away inside of one and that then he really had his radioactive material for his neutron gun. He actually stepped it up and built a second gun. He'd also from corresponding with Donald Herb, gotten even better at creating a neutron gun that was going to be useful in creating a nuclear reaction. He also found that when he used the radium on I think the thorium that he purified, he was trying to trigger a chain reaction by bombarding thorium with neutrons. That's what he was trying to do. He found that the thorium wasn't converting into uranium like it was supposed to, so he contacted Donald RB and Donald ERB said, your neutrons are too fast. You got to slow him down. One of the best ways to slow him down is tritium. And he said, well, where would I find tritium? And apparently they use tritium to make the glowing sites on gun scopes and gun sights. So he ordered I think dozens of gun sights from Miller catalogs from stores, and then he would scrape the tritium off and then send them back and say, I need this site repaired. There's no tritium on it, and they would put more tritium on it and send it back, and he just created a new pseudonym and send that back. And that's how methodical that kid was.

Yeah. Yeah, he found a vial of paint just tucked away inside of one and that then he really had his radioactive material for his neutron gun. He actually stepped it up and built a second gun. He'd also from corresponding with Donald Herb, gotten even better at creating a neutron gun that was going to be useful in creating a nuclear reaction. He also found that when he used the radium on I think the thorium that he purified, he was trying to trigger a chain reaction by bombarding thorium with neutrons. That's what he was trying to do. He found that the thorium wasn't converting into uranium like it was supposed to, so he contacted Donald RB and Donald ERB said, your neutrons are too fast. You got to slow him down. One of the best ways to slow him down is tritium. And he said, well, where would I find tritium? And apparently they use tritium to make the glowing sites on gun scopes and gun sights. So he ordered I think dozens of gun sights from Miller catalogs from stores, and then he would scrape the tritium off and then send them back and say, I need this site repaired. There's no tritium on it, and they would put more tritium on it and send it back, and he just created a new pseudonym and send that back. And that's how methodical that kid was.

So this is all kid stuff. He's like fourteen, fifteen years old. Eventually he turned seventeen, and he says, all right, I think I want to build an actual nuclear reactor. It's called a tiny breeder reactor. They've been around since the early nineteen fifties when the US developed them, when we were you know, sort of the beginning of the age of trying to use nuclear power for electricity, and they're like, well, these little tiny breeder reactors might be a good way to extend the supply of fuel or something. It never quite worked out that way. I think they're still working on that kind of thing in Russia and China, but it never really went off the ground. But it was enough to inspire David to think that maybe I can build a small thing like this in my mom's potting garage or potting shed.

So this is all kid stuff. He's like fourteen, fifteen years old. Eventually he turned seventeen, and he says, all right, I think I want to build an actual nuclear reactor. It's called a tiny breeder reactor. They've been around since the early nineteen fifties when the US developed them, when we were you know, sort of the beginning of the age of trying to use nuclear power for electricity, and they're like, well, these little tiny breeder reactors might be a good way to extend the supply of fuel or something. It never quite worked out that way. I think they're still working on that kind of thing in Russia and China, but it never really went off the ground. But it was enough to inspire David to think that maybe I can build a small thing like this in my mom's potting garage or potting shed.

Yeah. The difference between a breeder reactor and a regular reactor is that you in a regular reactor, you just use fuel and you get energy from the fuel. With the breeder reactor, you get energy from the fuel, but it also creates more fuel and you end up with more fuel than you started with. I saw it liken to leaving your house or the car with the half a tank of gas and when you return home the tank is full. That's kind of like what it does. And yet they just could never get it to work. But that's what he was trying to do. And the reason why is because you start with uranium two thirty eight, and that's the most abundant uranium found in nature.

Yeah. The difference between a breeder reactor and a regular reactor is that you in a regular reactor, you just use fuel and you get energy from the fuel. With the breeder reactor, you get energy from the fuel, but it also creates more fuel and you end up with more fuel than you started with. I saw it liken to leaving your house or the car with the half a tank of gas and when you return home the tank is full. That's kind of like what it does. And yet they just could never get it to work. But that's what he was trying to do. And the reason why is because you start with uranium two thirty eight, and that's the most abundant uranium found in nature.

That's right. So he doesn't have enough uranium, matter what kind it is, to create an actual chain reaction for normal reactors. So he says, maybe I can at least do something like it. Seemed like he became sort of obsessed just with this goal of creating some kind of nuclear reaction himself, got a blueprint from one of his dad's textbooks, took that emericium in the radium from his neutron guns, mixed it with some aluminum, shaving some beryllium, wrap that up in aluminum foil, and basically you have yourself a very small reactor core right there.

That's right. So he doesn't have enough uranium, matter what kind it is, to create an actual chain reaction for normal reactors. So he says, maybe I can at least do something like it. Seemed like he became sort of obsessed just with this goal of creating some kind of nuclear reaction himself, got a blueprint from one of his dad's textbooks, took that emericium in the radium from his neutron guns, mixed it with some aluminum, shaving some beryllium, wrap that up in aluminum foil, and basically you have yourself a very small reactor core right there.

Yeah, he created an atomic pile like the first one that FORMI created in Chicago, but on a much much smaller scale. But it worked like it worked. He created, like you said, a nuclear reactor, and it started a nuclear chain reaction and it started to take off actually pretty quickly.

Yeah, he created an atomic pile like the first one that FORMI created in Chicago, but on a much much smaller scale. But it worked like it worked. He created, like you said, a nuclear reactor, and it started a nuclear chain reaction and it started to take off actually pretty quickly.

Yeah, he's got that Geiger counter and he's measuring this thing like on a daily basis, and he's like it's actually growing, like it's getting more radio active in here. I imagine he was thrilled and also possibly a little bit like Matthew Broderick in wargames where it's like, oh, wait a minute, like what have I done here, such that he was worried and took it apart.

Yeah, he's got that Geiger counter and he's measuring this thing like on a daily basis, and he's like it's actually growing, like it's getting more radio active in here. I imagine he was thrilled and also possibly a little bit like Matthew Broderick in wargames where it's like, oh, wait a minute, like what have I done here, such that he was worried and took it apart.

He did. Apparently he could detect it from five houses down the street. And I looked up pictures of Golf Manner and I mean their yards are decent size, so five houses away is a pretty good distance to be able to pick up his nuclear reactor in his mom's potting shed with his Geiger counter. And at that big sideyards there, yeah, lots of big side yards. No zero lines, no, no, no, nothing like that. No, this is Golf manner Man that we're talking about. So he took it apart and he just kind of distributed the different parts to try to drop the radioactivity levels in his mom's potting shed and he kind of went about his life after he disassembled his reactor. He'd achieved his goal, but apparently he had a penchant for stealing wheels and tires off of cars. He admitted as much in an interview later on as an adult, and he seems to have gotten caught doing that by the police shortly after he disassembled his reactor. And when the police caught him, they said, we're going to search your car, and he said, go ahead, search my car, but do not open that toolbox. That toolbox is highly radioactive.

He did. Apparently he could detect it from five houses down the street. And I looked up pictures of Golf Manner and I mean their yards are decent size, so five houses away is a pretty good distance to be able to pick up his nuclear reactor in his mom's potting shed with his Geiger counter. And at that big sideyards there, yeah, lots of big side yards. No zero lines, no, no, no, nothing like that. No, this is Golf manner Man that we're talking about. So he took it apart and he just kind of distributed the different parts to try to drop the radioactivity levels in his mom's potting shed and he kind of went about his life after he disassembled his reactor. He'd achieved his goal, but apparently he had a penchant for stealing wheels and tires off of cars. He admitted as much in an interview later on as an adult, and he seems to have gotten caught doing that by the police shortly after he disassembled his reactor. And when the police caught him, they said, we're going to search your car, and he said, go ahead, search my car, but do not open that toolbox. That toolbox is highly radioactive.

Is that a good cliffhanger for a break?

Is that a good cliffhanger for a break?

I think so. Imagine the cops going what they're.

I think so. Imagine the cops going what they're.

Like, we got to listen to ads before we know what happens. Sorry, all right, we'll be right back, all right. So it's August almost September nineteen ninety four. That reactor is taking apart. I think you put the thorium in a shoe box. The radium in the americium was in the shed still, and the rest is in the trunk of his car. He's just been pulled over, like you said, because there was reports that he was stealing tires and wheels, and he said, warning that things radioactive don't open up that toolbox. So they said, well, maybe we should. This sounds like an ied to me and improvised explosive device. Why don't we call him the bomb squad to be safe, called in the bomb squad, they said, this whole car basically is radioactive, and all of a sudden, the Federal Radiological Emergency Response Plan is triggered, and the EPA and the FBI and the INNER and the DOE are in the state and local authorities are all like trying to not trying to get this kid, but trying to figure out what in the world is going on with this kid.

Like, we got to listen to ads before we know what happens. Sorry, all right, we'll be right back, all right. So it's August almost September nineteen ninety four. That reactor is taking apart. I think you put the thorium in a shoe box. The radium in the americium was in the shed still, and the rest is in the trunk of his car. He's just been pulled over, like you said, because there was reports that he was stealing tires and wheels, and he said, warning that things radioactive don't open up that toolbox. So they said, well, maybe we should. This sounds like an ied to me and improvised explosive device. Why don't we call him the bomb squad to be safe, called in the bomb squad, they said, this whole car basically is radioactive, and all of a sudden, the Federal Radiological Emergency Response Plan is triggered, and the EPA and the FBI and the INNER and the DOE are in the state and local authorities are all like trying to not trying to get this kid, but trying to figure out what in the world is going on with this kid.

Yeah, he's seventeen at the time still, and all of a sudden, these huge agencies are like swooping down on him to figure out what's going on. The thing is, I guess they didn't think to ask the right questions or their imaginations just didn't go as far as they could have. But they seem to have in this initial questioning not really have gotten any further than his car, And he didn't offer up any information whatsoever about his actual like nuclear reaction experiments in his mom's potting shed. They didn't even know there was a potting shed at his mom's house.

Yeah, he's seventeen at the time still, and all of a sudden, these huge agencies are like swooping down on him to figure out what's going on. The thing is, I guess they didn't think to ask the right questions or their imaginations just didn't go as far as they could have. But they seem to have in this initial questioning not really have gotten any further than his car, And he didn't offer up any information whatsoever about his actual like nuclear reaction experiments in his mom's potting shed. They didn't even know there was a potting shed at his mom's house.

Really hard believe.

Really hard believe.

Yes, but that's the level of questioning that this kid was subjected to. And I mean, in retrospect, you're like, are you guys kidding? You didn't know about the potting shed right off the bat. But if you're an FBI agent, Department of Energy agent, and you're talking to a seventeen year old kid, you're probably not going to assume that because they have this stuff and a toolbox in their car, they actually were successfully creating nuclear chain reactions in their mom's potting shed. I can kind of commiserate with that.

Yes, but that's the level of questioning that this kid was subjected to. And I mean, in retrospect, you're like, are you guys kidding? You didn't know about the potting shed right off the bat. But if you're an FBI agent, Department of Energy agent, and you're talking to a seventeen year old kid, you're probably not going to assume that because they have this stuff and a toolbox in their car, they actually were successfully creating nuclear chain reactions in their mom's potting shed. I can kind of commiserate with that.

Sure, you probably assume you just got it at radiation are pretty much so. A few months later is when they finally got an expert from the state Department of Public Health to interview David more thoroughly, and that turned up the potting shed. David's mom at this point had gathered most of the radioactive stuff and gotten rid of it, I imagine, not in a very safe way at all, probably just went in the trash can. And they still found a lot of radiation at the house and the materials there in the shed they had apparently those of vegetable can that had about a thousand times the normal back ground radiation. And so they called in federal authorities and they said, well, your house is this, Well, the potting shed at least is a superpun site.

Sure, you probably assume you just got it at radiation are pretty much so. A few months later is when they finally got an expert from the state Department of Public Health to interview David more thoroughly, and that turned up the potting shed. David's mom at this point had gathered most of the radioactive stuff and gotten rid of it, I imagine, not in a very safe way at all, probably just went in the trash can. And they still found a lot of radiation at the house and the materials there in the shed they had apparently those of vegetable can that had about a thousand times the normal back ground radiation. And so they called in federal authorities and they said, well, your house is this, Well, the potting shed at least is a superpun site.

Yeah. They ended up spending sixty grand on a two to three day operation between June twenty sixth and twenty eighth of nineteen ninety five disassembling the potting shed, I think, getting some of the earth around it out of there, putting them in sealed barrels with you know, radioactive hazard symbols on it, and they sent it to the Great Salt Lake Desert where they were buried with other canisters of low level radioactive waste. His mom's potting shed is in a Great Salt Lake desert buried with other radioactive material. That's kind of neat. The real stuff though, like you said, it ended up in like the landfill nearby. There was a quote from David that I saw where he said the authorities got the garbage, and the garbage got the good stuff, in reference to what his mom and thrown away. So, yeah, there's some lumps of amrisium and radium sitting somewhere in the garbage pile outside of Clinton Commerce.

Yeah. They ended up spending sixty grand on a two to three day operation between June twenty sixth and twenty eighth of nineteen ninety five disassembling the potting shed, I think, getting some of the earth around it out of there, putting them in sealed barrels with you know, radioactive hazard symbols on it, and they sent it to the Great Salt Lake Desert where they were buried with other canisters of low level radioactive waste. His mom's potting shed is in a Great Salt Lake desert buried with other radioactive material. That's kind of neat. The real stuff though, like you said, it ended up in like the landfill nearby. There was a quote from David that I saw where he said the authorities got the garbage, and the garbage got the good stuff, in reference to what his mom and thrown away. So, yeah, there's some lumps of amrisium and radium sitting somewhere in the garbage pile outside of Clinton Commerce.

Township and what's in like a thousand years, it'll be safe.

Township and what's in like a thousand years, it'll be safe.

Probably something like that.

Probably something like that.

I was just I don't know how long that would be. I bet somebody knows.

I was just I don't know how long that would be. I bet somebody knows.

So oh though right now.

So oh though right now.

So David falls into depression after this. His high school classmates were not kind to him. Of course, they called him radioactive boy. The EPA said, Hi, we should you know, we can examine you in your body to see if you're okay. He said, no, no, no, I don't want anything to do with that. I'll be fine. He did get that Eagle Scout badge. I think the Scout leaders are like, should we really do this? But they did. They give him that Eagle Scout badge. And no, apparently that the neighborhoods, all those huge side yards came in handy because no one in the neighborhood, and no one at the home or in his family apparently ever, suffered from any kind of radiation sickness.

So David falls into depression after this. His high school classmates were not kind to him. Of course, they called him radioactive boy. The EPA said, Hi, we should you know, we can examine you in your body to see if you're okay. He said, no, no, no, I don't want anything to do with that. I'll be fine. He did get that Eagle Scout badge. I think the Scout leaders are like, should we really do this? But they did. They give him that Eagle Scout badge. And no, apparently that the neighborhoods, all those huge side yards came in handy because no one in the neighborhood, and no one at the home or in his family apparently ever, suffered from any kind of radiation sickness.

That is so lucky. Yeah, like that is really lucky for him and for everybody, but he no one got hurt. That's just mind boggling. At this point, he went on and joined the Navy a couple of years later, and he served for several years. Was honorably discharged and ironically served on the USS Enterprise, which is a nuclear submarine, but he didn't work in any capacity near the nuclear part of the submarine.

That is so lucky. Yeah, like that is really lucky for him and for everybody, but he no one got hurt. That's just mind boggling. At this point, he went on and joined the Navy a couple of years later, and he served for several years. Was honorably discharged and ironically served on the USS Enterprise, which is a nuclear submarine, but he didn't work in any capacity near the nuclear part of the submarine.

He I think he fully served his time in the Navy.

He I think he fully served his time in the Navy.

He did. Yeah, he was honorably discharged.

He did. Yeah, he was honorably discharged.

No, no, No, I think I think he was discharged from the Marines. I think he like he fully served his time in the Navy. Oh, I thought they thought he was never discharged.

No, no, No, I think I think he was discharged from the Marines. I think he like he fully served his time in the Navy. Oh, I thought they thought he was never discharged.

I thought they discharged you when your time was up too.

I thought they discharged you when your time was up too.

No, you just you're just done. You just like a discharge means it's time for you to go. And they're like, wait, I got three more years, and they're like, no, it's time for you.

No, you just you're just done. You just like a discharge means it's time for you to go. And they're like, wait, I got three more years, and they're like, no, it's time for you.

To get gotcha, Okay, I gotcha all right. So yes, in between the Navy and the Marines, he went to college and started working on an associate's degree. Like you said, he joined the Marines. He was honorably discharged, and his life was just not going the way he wanted it to. Two thousand and seven found him unemployed. His mental illness had really kind of kicked in, and toward the end of his life spoiler alert, he died at age thirty nine there was an FBI report on him where somebody had been informing on him that he was not using his meds, that he was heavily using cocaine, and that he was acting really paranoid. From what I can tell based on the FBI documents, it seems like the person informing on him seems concerned, not like they're doing it out of any kind of vengeful reason.

To get gotcha, Okay, I gotcha all right. So yes, in between the Navy and the Marines, he went to college and started working on an associate's degree. Like you said, he joined the Marines. He was honorably discharged, and his life was just not going the way he wanted it to. Two thousand and seven found him unemployed. His mental illness had really kind of kicked in, and toward the end of his life spoiler alert, he died at age thirty nine there was an FBI report on him where somebody had been informing on him that he was not using his meds, that he was heavily using cocaine, and that he was acting really paranoid. From what I can tell based on the FBI documents, it seems like the person informing on him seems concerned, not like they're doing it out of any kind of vengeful reason.

Right.

Right.

But when FBI showed up and interviewed him again, this is when he's in his thirties, he passed all the inspection or queries that they gave him, questioning that they gave him.

But when FBI showed up and interviewed him again, this is when he's in his thirties, he passed all the inspection or queries that they gave him, questioning that they gave him.

Yeah, and there were you know, there were other complaints and reports with the police that you know, he was trying to do this again, that he had a small reactor at his house. Another landlord I think, said that he had stolen some smoke detectors that they were missing, and they found them, like you know, torn apart, basically near David's garage. But they never they never found any kind of radiation. He said he hadn't done that kind of stuff in a decade, and you know, they went and checked like where he was living, and they never found any evidence that he had at least started up any more radioactive work.

Yeah, and there were you know, there were other complaints and reports with the police that you know, he was trying to do this again, that he had a small reactor at his house. Another landlord I think, said that he had stolen some smoke detectors that they were missing, and they found them, like you know, torn apart, basically near David's garage. But they never they never found any kind of radiation. He said he hadn't done that kind of stuff in a decade, and you know, they went and checked like where he was living, and they never found any evidence that he had at least started up any more radioactive work.

Yeah. Imagine during your FBI questioning, you're like, I haven't done any nuclear reactions at home for like ten years. Man, that's like that is a different chet. It's like a lifetime and age stuff. Yeah, exactly. The FBI documents also give just kind of a sad note. In twenty ten, which is where the FBI's investigation of him as an adult left off based on those complaints, they noted that he was in rehab after being charged with a bunch of drug charges. So apparently the cocaine use thing was true. That was twenty ten, six years later, like I said, he was dead at age thirty nine.

Yeah. Imagine during your FBI questioning, you're like, I haven't done any nuclear reactions at home for like ten years. Man, that's like that is a different chet. It's like a lifetime and age stuff. Yeah, exactly. The FBI documents also give just kind of a sad note. In twenty ten, which is where the FBI's investigation of him as an adult left off based on those complaints, they noted that he was in rehab after being charged with a bunch of drug charges. So apparently the cocaine use thing was true. That was twenty ten, six years later, like I said, he was dead at age thirty nine.

Yeah. So in the media, of course, initially there were some people that said that the radioactivity did him in or that was a factor at least very sadly, the report came back that wasn't true. But he died from combined effects of alcohol and fentanyl and ben a drill, and he suffered from mental illness just like his mom, I think, from paranoid schizophrenia and depression. And it's just a very sad to a story of the kid. He sounds like he was really smart and just wanted to try and do something really amazing, you know.

Yeah. So in the media, of course, initially there were some people that said that the radioactivity did him in or that was a factor at least very sadly, the report came back that wasn't true. But he died from combined effects of alcohol and fentanyl and ben a drill, and he suffered from mental illness just like his mom, I think, from paranoid schizophrenia and depression. And it's just a very sad to a story of the kid. He sounds like he was really smart and just wanted to try and do something really amazing, you know.

Yeah, he was found dead in the bathroom at the Walmart that he had gone shopping in the night he died. And it is a sad end. I don't quite know what to make of it, Chuck.

Yeah, he was found dead in the bathroom at the Walmart that he had gone shopping in the night he died. And it is a sad end. I don't quite know what to make of it, Chuck.

Like jam it's if he was still alive.

Like jam it's if he was still alive.

I don't know. I think it would be a much different story somehow.

I don't know. I think it would be a much different story somehow.

Yeah, but he did something.

Yeah, but he did something.

I don't know. Maybe it's the story of somebody who was just so single minded they did something that most other people would have given up on or never even attempted. And that's worth mentioning, you.

I don't know. Maybe it's the story of somebody who was just so single minded they did something that most other people would have given up on or never even attempted. And that's worth mentioning, you.

Know, Yeah, absolutely, And I tried to look at other angles. I just I never saw anything like nefarious. Really no.

Know, Yeah, absolutely, And I tried to look at other angles. I just I never saw anything like nefarious. Really no.

No, either an FBI interview or a media interview, the interviewer was like, I mean, were you thinking of making a bomb or whatever? And they said they reported like he seemed to just be like that never even crossed my mind, Like, no, it's not at all what I was doing. He was just obsessed with creating a nuclear reaction and.

No, either an FBI interview or a media interview, the interviewer was like, I mean, were you thinking of making a bomb or whatever? And they said they reported like he seemed to just be like that never even crossed my mind, Like, no, it's not at all what I was doing. He was just obsessed with creating a nuclear reaction and.

He did it. Yeah. Well, thankfully we don't have to end it on that sad note, because Livia found this other great story of a kid named Taylor Wilson who got the radio Active Boy Scout book from his grandmother as an eleven year old science kid and operating under supervision and oversight and getting real experts to help, actually became the youngest person to achieve nuclear fusion at the age of fourteen.

He did it. Yeah. Well, thankfully we don't have to end it on that sad note, because Livia found this other great story of a kid named Taylor Wilson who got the radio Active Boy Scout book from his grandmother as an eleven year old science kid and operating under supervision and oversight and getting real experts to help, actually became the youngest person to achieve nuclear fusion at the age of fourteen.

Yeah, this is amazing. I mean, fusion is a whole new ballgame.

Yeah, this is amazing. I mean, fusion is a whole new ballgame.

But yeah, fourteen and works as a nuclear physicist as an adult.

But yeah, fourteen and works as a nuclear physicist as an adult.

Yeah, and supposedly, according to The Guardian, a super cool dude too.

Yeah, and supposedly, according to The Guardian, a super cool dude too.

Yeah, and directly inspired from David's story.

Yeah, and directly inspired from David's story.

Yeah, and apparently his grandmother lived to regret it again according to The Guardian. Oh really Yeah, that's what the Guardian said, because I guess his grandmother was giving it to him as a cautionary tale and he was like, oh, I want to try this miss out.

Yeah, and apparently his grandmother lived to regret it again according to The Guardian. Oh really Yeah, that's what the Guardian said, because I guess his grandmother was giving it to him as a cautionary tale and he was like, oh, I want to try this miss out.

Very interesting.

Very interesting.

Taylor Wilson's grandmother is the eleventh person we need to thank in this episode, Taylor Wilson being ten and Donald Irb being number nine.

Taylor Wilson's grandmother is the eleventh person we need to thank in this episode, Taylor Wilson being ten and Donald Irb being number nine.

Right, nice work.

Right, nice work.

If you want to know more about the Nuclear or Radioactive Boy Scout, David Han, there's a lot of stuff out there, but you would be remiss in not reading Ken Silverstein's article at least, if not his book on David Hant. And while you're looking that up, we'll just go ahead and do listener mail.

If you want to know more about the Nuclear or Radioactive Boy Scout, David Han, there's a lot of stuff out there, but you would be remiss in not reading Ken Silverstein's article at least, if not his book on David Hant. And while you're looking that up, we'll just go ahead and do listener mail.

All right, this is from Tiffany. Hey, guys, thank you for bringing back some vivid memories from my eighth grade reading class too many decades ago to admit. But my reading teacher was also the social studies teacher, and I guess that explains where all of our reading lists included Animal Farm, Hiroshima, all applied on the Western Front and you know it The Jungle by Upton Sinclair to Ham home what we read. He would incorporate details of the book into a little imaginary coin toss he did each day to determine whether the boys or girls got to go first and walk to lunch in single file line. For the weeks we discussed the Jungle. It would sound something like this. Today's menu includes hot dogs. Call it in the air. Is it the rusty nail or the severed finger? What a great teacher. One day we noticed that half the kids in the class had an edition of the book that included this, and yes, I still remember it. Decades later. Mary had a little lamb and when she saw it sicken. She sent it off to the packing town and now it's labeled chicken. I was really hoping you guys had seen this so we could hear a recitation during the podcast, but we just did it right there, Tiffany.

All right, this is from Tiffany. Hey, guys, thank you for bringing back some vivid memories from my eighth grade reading class too many decades ago to admit. But my reading teacher was also the social studies teacher, and I guess that explains where all of our reading lists included Animal Farm, Hiroshima, all applied on the Western Front and you know it The Jungle by Upton Sinclair to Ham home what we read. He would incorporate details of the book into a little imaginary coin toss he did each day to determine whether the boys or girls got to go first and walk to lunch in single file line. For the weeks we discussed the Jungle. It would sound something like this. Today's menu includes hot dogs. Call it in the air. Is it the rusty nail or the severed finger? What a great teacher. One day we noticed that half the kids in the class had an edition of the book that included this, and yes, I still remember it. Decades later. Mary had a little lamb and when she saw it sicken. She sent it off to the packing town and now it's labeled chicken. I was really hoping you guys had seen this so we could hear a recitation during the podcast, but we just did it right there, Tiffany.

That's great. Yeah, I didn't run across that.

That's great. Yeah, I didn't run across that.

I didn't neither. That's a great ad.

I didn't neither. That's a great ad.

Yeah, thanks a lot, Tiffany. That's a great email and we appreciate it big time. And hats off to your teacher. The thirteenth person we need to thank in this episode. You're number twelve, Tiffany, Can we think, Jerry? Sure? Why not? We'll go with fourteen. We could thank ourselves and just bring it up to sixteen, a nice.

Yeah, thanks a lot, Tiffany. That's a great email and we appreciate it big time. And hats off to your teacher. The thirteenth person we need to thank in this episode. You're number twelve, Tiffany, Can we think, Jerry? Sure? Why not? We'll go with fourteen. We could thank ourselves and just bring it up to sixteen, a nice.

Even number, sweet sixteen.

Even number, sweet sixteen.

We're gonna make it seventeen because we want to thank you for listening, and we want to thank you in advance for getting in touch with this via email. It's stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

We're gonna make it seventeen because we want to thank you for listening, and we want to thank you in advance for getting in touch with this via email. It's stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.