Stuff You Should KnowViruses are big jerks that invade regular cells and hold them hostage, making you sick while they're doing it. Learn everything you ever needed to know about viruses, including how the common cold works, in this classic episode.
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Hello, friends out there, It's Chuck Bryant here on a Saturday to intro my select pick for this week from October four two fourteen. Virus Talk with Josh and Chuck. Not a spin off show, but as podcast episode we recorded about virus is very very interesting stuff. Give it a listen right now. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of My Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles w Chuck Bryant, There's Jerry Uh. And this is Stuff you Should Know, featuring my enormous dot up nose and how appropriate. Yeah, well that was one of the reasons why I wanted to do this one. I figured I'm a little sick right now. Yeah still, and uh, I wanted to know more about the monster inside of me. That's right, Like I'm not feeling great and knowledge is power, like we always say, exactly, Like, just from researching this, I was like starting to break a sweat and tremble and I was like, I'm getting better, and then I passed out and hit my head. Yeah, and I didn't have enough time to finish studying so good, I'm gonna have to make a lot of this up. Chuck cool. Yeah, we've covered we covered ebola recently, and we are definitely going to cover HIV at some point. We just haven't gotten around to it. Yeah, but both of those are viruses. So there's another one we talked about that seemed to come up in this I don't remember what it was, but um, the herpies. No, no, we never talked about herpes. Um well, you know, not mixed company what what was it? I don't remember, but there was definitely microbiome maybe Yeah, No, I don't remember what it was. But we've talked about viruses and viral infections. But to me, I think viruses are one of the most fascinating things on the entire planet. They're jerks, like, we don't know where they came from. We don't quite know how to classify them because they really kind of operate on the line between a living in a non living thing. Yeah, this article said like most scientists agree, but I found a lot of people that said that they're not living things too, So yeah, um, but who cares really, They still definitely have an effect. You know. The weird thing is about a virus is why some people say it's living and some people say it's non living. Is that it to to be a living thing, you have to have something like arms. Yeah, you have to have arms. Rocks rocks don't have arms, No point proven um. You have to have You have to be able to carry out the processes that keep you alive, like self sustaining. Yeah, like you A cell. A cell is the smallest living organism. It's the smallest possible living organism because you get lower than that and you have maybe the things that make up a cell, but they can't sustain themselves. A cell can sustain itself health and things can be made up of cells like us, and therefore we are a living organisms. The cells that make us up our living organisms. Plants are living organisms, but viruses they don't have any means of carrying out the processes that keep them alive, which doesn't matter because they're not alive, But more important, they don't have any processes that allow them to reproduce. Yeah, they're just like by themselves that they're not worth very much. They need to glom on. They're always gloming on to everyone else's junk exactly, which is basically what a virus does. But for something as simple as a viruses, And we'll talk about how simple they are in a second. They have devastating effects when they do start to really get busy, you know. So, Chuck I was saying, like, they don't know exactly where viruses came from. They know they're very old. But there there are a couple of theories. My favorite one, probably the one that's right, is um that they are former bits of cells that basically evolved into freelance renegades. Really yeah, which explains why certain viruses fit with certain cells. Well that makes sense. Huh. So they could have just been basically like drifting genetic material that that evolved enough to say I'm gonna learn to reproduce by hijacking renegade drifters. Yep, So are you saying that viruses or John Rambo? Pretty much? So let's talk about like what makes a virus? Uh? Yeah, Well, like you said, a cell is is on its own It can do its own thing. Viruses cannot. Viruses are super tiny, about one millionth of an inch long, which is a thousand times smaller than bacteria, which are smaller than human cells. Most of them. There are some viruses that are actually larger than the average sized bacteria, but for the the most part they are smaller, which is still super tiny. Sure it is like you need an electron microscope to view these bad boys, right. Uh. And they can infect just about any living thing. As a matter of fact, any living thing could be theoretically infected by a virus, like a bacteria can get a viral infection. Man, that's crazy, isn't that crazy? I don't even know what that seaweed can get viruses? Yeah, donkeys, Yeah, all sorts of stuff, the whole the whole gamut from seaweed to donkeys. U a virus itself. If you just want to look at what that that little tiny particle is is. Uh, it's a very on Is that how we're going to say that viron viron? Yeah? Why didn't they just leave the second eye out environ? Yeah? I don't know how much better. Basically, what it is is a set of genetic instructions. Can be either DNA or RNA, can't be both. Uh, And it's you know, it's just instructions, that's all it is. Well, that's that's the nucleic acid that is part of a VIRON. Like a VIRON is like a particle. It's like an individual viral particle. Yeah, and part of that is the nucleic acid. Yeah, and that's surrounded by capsid, which is just a protein coating to protect it. And then sometimes if it's an envelope virus, it will also have an envelope around that capsid. If it's naked, it doesn't need or I guess it just doesn't have that other protein code, right, And the enveloped ones are enveloped with this um a lipid, a fat of some sort um. But for a naked virus, it's can it's made up of two things. It's got. It's it's nucleic acid and it's protein coding that protects the nucleic acid. So it's not just nucleic acid floating around, that's right. And um, the nucleic acid is like you said, it's basically just a blueprint for how to make more viruses. Because if speaking teleologically, a virus is its whole purpose is to make more viruses. That's all it cares about. And you can say, well, that applies to about any living organism if you get down to the bare bones, just to put the gate. Yeah, with the virus, it's like that's it, man, it's not doing anything else. It doesn't care about playing cards. It doesn't want to do anything but reproduce and make you sick. Yeah, pretty much. Uh there. Their shape varies a lot, but they're basically three types helical or hell eqal. It's like a tube. You got your polyhedral, so it's sort of like a soccer ball, and then you have your complex shapes and they are complex there. You know, they can look crazy, they can have tails, they can have crazy looking spider legs like the what they both which one looks like the Apollo lunar Lander. I'm gonna go with complex, I would for sure, but yeah, yeah, I don't think it could be polyhedral. It's startling how much it looks like that. Yeah, it looks like it was made to look like a cool little lunar Lander. Or that the lunar Lander was modeled after the virus maybe, which doesn't make much because they wanted to infect the Moon, which you may have astronaut jokes. Uh So, Unlike cells that can do their own thing, viruses don't have enzymes like cells do that basically allowed to operate uh independently as their own little units. Some do. Some viruses contain just enough enzymes to take their DNA or their RNA and and do something with it to basically primate to be transcribed or something like that. Or they have enzymes that go hijack the enzymes in the cell. Yeah, so some do. Most don't write. But um, yeah, that's that's the whole point of infecting a host cell. If all of virus wants to do is reproduce, but it can't reproduce, that's where the host cell comes in. That's right. They basically move into the factory with and say we're going to use your equipment. They're like, they don't mind. There's gonna be some big changes around here because there's a new share eriff in town. And the virus. Although all viruses don't not kill people, we should point that out, no, And so it depending on what kind of virus it is, whether it's naked or enveloped. Um, it will attach itself to the to the host cell and either inject it. If it's naked, it has to stay outside the host cell and it basically injects its genetic material into the host cell. Or if it's enveloped that fat lipid coding that that makes it an enveloped virus basically connects to the host cell's own fat lipid coding, and that protein coated virus can basically slip through, just absorb right into the cell and say tada when it makes it on the inside. Yeah. Is that what an antigen is? I think that's the protein that has to match, like the antigen looks for another uh like protein so it can get that tight bond. And if they and if they're not similar enough, they can't bond and infect that cell. Be wrong? And that is that right? I don't know if that's the it sounds right, and the reason it sounds right because I saw elsewhere in the research that, Um, that's why viruses go after specific kinds of cells. Okay there there, Um, that's they recognize the type of cells that they're capable of infecting, right, and say, I can bind to you very tightly, my friend, exactly, So let's dance exactly all right. Right after this message, we are going to get down to the nitty gritty on what happens once they have bound themselves to that cell. All right, Josh, they moved into the cell. They like the looks of it. It's a nice open concept floor plan, which everyone loves these days, right. What happens from there, Well, it depends on the virus. So let's say it was one that injected it. It's got its genetic material floating around. Maybe there's an enzyme that's assisting the genetic material, or if the virus itself showed up, Um, it's releasing its genetic material all over the place. But basically what happens is that sounds pretty crossy. Yeah, well it is pretty gross. It happens exactly like it like you think, Um, but the the once inside the cell, you'll see a lot that the virus hijacks the cells um processes. Yeah, like hey, we need to use your deal because we don't have our own. Exactly. Um, they're not. The reason people use the word hijack is because it really gets the point across, but it's also because science isn't on how viruses do it, and they they what they think basically is that if there's an accompanying enzyme or something, the enzymes, but basically wait for a line of other enzymes, the cell zone enzymes to go past, and then it grabs the last one in the line. That old trick hits it over the head hypnotizes it basically, and then sends it back out to go recruit other enzymes, and then all of a sudden, the cell is it's enzymes, it's workers. If you think of the enzymes as like the workers in the cell um, they're all working for this virus, and the cells like, what the heck is going on? It's too late. The enzymes are focused on transcribing the DNA, which ultimately just makes more DNA or RNA for the virus, and then assembling it with proteins that the enzymes are now making, so they're now making more and more and more viruses. It's a hostile takeover. It is very much a hostile takeover. That's one way to go. There's another thing called a retrovirus, which I'm a huge fan of. Some of the worst viruses around a retroviruses, which is ironic because they actually have the softest impact on the host cell. But a retrovirus goes in very quietly, hangs around clothing and right, Yeah, because HIV is a retrovirus. Um, so is uh. I think a flu flu is a retrovirus too, I think um. But it goes in and it it just inserts its DNA into the cells DNA alright, So it's like, yeah, I go about your business or whatever. But now there's this extra sequence that when you go over it and you transcribe it and you do what this this um d NA or this genetic material is telling you to do to make you're gonna Also is a byproduct spit out um viruses, so it's just duplicating itself, it is. So that's there's a lot of different things that can go on. But it's like you said, there's a hostile takeover or the cell is tricked into making more viruses, but what happens is more and more and more and more viruses are being made within the host cell, which can be pretty bad for the hostel. Ultimately, well, yeah, because eventually the virus is gonna leave, and they can either if it's a naked virus, it'll bust out and just destroy the host cell and be like, hey, I'm tired of your little apartment. I'm just gonna burn it down because I'm my own thing now and I can live on my own um. Or if it's an envelope virus and it'll just kind of pinch away and keep that protective cell membrane and just be like, well, fine, I'll just take my stuff and and leave and you're free to do what you want. Right. Well, that's another reason why retroviruses are easy on the host cell is because all retroviruses are enveloped viruses. So these new newly made viruses just moved to the outside membrane and and bud off. And then what happens when they bud off or when the cell breaks open because there's so many new viruses, it ruptures the cell. Yeah, it's just pretty horrific if you think about it. Um, all of a sudden, you're contagious. Yeah, and it's duplicating and spreading all throughout your body at a pretty rapid rate. Lots of these guys. So let's let's look at your well, let's look at you for instance. Okay, what have you got right now? I got something some sort of viral infection cold, not the flu, probably, Yeah, you achy, fevery no, no, feverish. I mean, uh so what do you What do I have? Doc? Well, I would say you have a cold, but I had a cold that that turned into a sinus infection. I may have one of those from the color of the stuff that's coming out of my nose, I would say I probably have a size infection. Yes. Would you describe it as khaki? Uh? I would describe it as a drab all of oh Man, way worse than Khaki. When I was sick a couple of weeks ago, I had some serious, bright, bright, almost fluorescent yellow coming out, which is all very gratifying to get rid of, either with your Nettie Potter just blowing your nose or whatever. I've been Nettie Potting like a madman. Yeah. You know you can overdo that when you're sick. Apparently, Yeah, I can imagine, because this just the salt. Get too much salt up there, and I think just fluid like unless you really really get it all out. Uh, it's better like you need to dry out completely in between. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I definitely all right, We'll just take two of these and come back and see me next week. Well you're diagnosing what was going on, Well, you've got a cold, I think, um, but let's say you're in the office. I think we should make this as real as possible. I was. Let's say that I'm hanging out with my sweet little four year old niece, who herself has a cold. Uh. She the she, the the person. I don't want to name names, but I think she's she's on your list now. So all right, So your little niece probably sneezed or something or just put her dirty little hands all over your face because she loves Uncle Josh. She she has her dad would not allow her to have dirty hands. Okay, I think she an Okay, yeah, uh. And what you probably did was inhaled a virus particle, and that probably attached to your the linings of your nasal passages, your sinuses, because apparently there's basically only three ways that a virus gets into your body. You inhale it uh, attaches to your mucous membranes like your nose or your gums or something, or enters through a break in the skin. That's right. So your host cell is going to break open, your virus is gonna move in there with and say I'm gonna use your equipment like we talked about. Then maybe travel to your bloodstream, travel to your lungs uh, and you're gonna end up getting Let's say, maybe one of the first signs is a running nose because you're losing cells and your sinuses, and now that fluid is gonna be loosened up as a result. Yeah, the nasal, the literal cellular lining of my sinuses is being is rupturing to attack. Because here's the thing. When you go through and look at like what a virus does, you're looking at what one individual virian is doing. You don't necessarily just pick up one individual viron. You can be exposed to many, many, many virians and they are each reproducing, producing thousands more just in one cell. So all this is going on, it can have a pronounced effect. Like if you just lost one cell your in your nasal lining, it's not gonna do much. You're probably never ever going to notice. But if you lose a ton of the cells at the same time, you're gonna have a runny nose, or if it happens in your throat, you're gonna have a sore throat. That's right, that's just fluid. You know, it's attacking those cells in your throat and the lining, and it's dripping and just causing like a usually some sort of inflammation. Yeah, and those because that those ruptured cells are being carried down by your nose juice to the back of your throat, which is turn That's what I was raised on. It's in turn um nose juice okay, which in turn U and they attach an attack to the cells lining your throat and then this whole thing is just going on and on and on again. Yeah, if you've ever had aches and pains because of maybe a flu, that's because your muscle cells are being attacked. And it sucks because you don't know that this is going on at first, like it's just this war being waged inside your body and you're like, you know, hey, I'm just going to the grocery store and I'm feeling pretty good exactly, and by the time you start to feel it's too late, it is too late. I'm glad you brought that up because I did a don't be dumb on when you're actually contagious. Yeah, what's the final on that? So it depends on it does it vary? The how long you're contagious varies, But when you start is a about a day before you start showing symptoms. So like remember how I said, if you have one cell burst and and you're not gonna notice it, it's gonna take many many cells to burst before you finally have a sore throat. Well, while those things are bursting. After that first one bursts, you're contagious, buddy. So for a day before you even know you're sick, you're walking around infecting other people. With a cold, you go from the day before symptoms to about four days after. And with the flu, you go from the day before symptoms to five to seven days after, so you can still be It is true when people are like, I'm not contagious anymore, they're usually probably totally wrong. But say they're flu last eight days. If they say that on day eight, they're they're actually right. Most people say it by like day three or four or whatever. That's it's not right. Well, they need to watch Don't Be Dumb. Josh's award winning web series so many awards, man, I think the next award is gonna win. Is the most divisive web series because half the people, more than half the think, are like, man, this is the best thing ever. People I don't good it. Why is Josh acting so weird? And I'll just respond with, yeah, you don't get it, And I mean it's definitely not for everybody. I've learned, Well, it's very funny. I think it turns out. You asked me if I if I feel feverish, and I don't, Apparently my body is slacking on the immune response. Well, I think you don't always get the fever. But fever is a good thing because your body is wired to operate optimally at ninety eight point six, even though I heard that was nine eight point seven. Now is that right? Yeah? I heard that they kind of abandoned that as like an average body temperature because it varies enough between human beings that they're they're like, now it's this between this rather than point six, and if you don't have that, you're sick. So somewhere in that range, let's say, uh, chemical reactions and basically anything going on your body just that's the temperature it likes. So when you get a fever, it's actually slowing all those processes down, including the virus is spread. Yeah, because it's like, oh man, it's hot, I can't can't work as much, that's right, Uh, which is kind of a weird, indirect, roundabout way of slowing a fever down or slowing an infection down. Yeah. I mean, I guess if it works, So it's good to have a fever it is good to have a fever. And it's it actually makes sense in a strange way because some infections, some viruses attack the very cells that are meant to mount the immune response. Like remember a bola, it goes right after like every immune response cell that can find. HIV goes after T cells, which attack and destroy foreign bodies, so to to slow them down and just the spread so that the immune response can continue and mount a full attack is kind of clever. Yeah, And and since you mentioned HIV, it's it's another scary one because it's one of those viruses that can just lay in wait and they even call it sleeping it some sometimes, you know, like it's not obvious you could have HIV and be spreading HIV without ever feeling any kind of sick or any kind of symptoms, and um, basically eventually that virus is gonna do its thing. You know, it could lay in wait for years even without without acting right and then it depends on the virus. But they figure that there's some sort of environmental trigger. One I saw was like exposure to UV light or something like that. It's the same thing. Herpies is a virus like that, it sleeps which is why people who have like say herpie simplex don't always have um cold source. It'll just flare up, right, it will flare up. And they often say, like in times of stress or something like that, Well the virus isn't like this person is stressed out, let's go. There's probably cortisol triggers the virus to start reproducing. But one of the one of the devious aspects of this is when that when that virus sneaks in and inserts its d n A or RNA into the DNA of the cell and just hang back and wait. Well that cell is dividing as like normal again the virus unwittingly right without the virus even being reproduced, and now set up to be reproduced rather than in just one cell now four or eight or sixteen or thirty two. And then all hell breaks loose when all of them start going at the same time because they were all exposed to cortisol. That's what I'm saying. Viruses are amazingly interesting and wicked, wicked, wicked things they are. Um, So here are some tips the way on you know, if your office is sick, or you're around your four year old niece, Uh, here's some tips from your buddies here to keep you from getting sick. You know that there are carrier organisms like mosquitoes and fleas. They can spread viruses. We know it can be airborne. We already talked about bodily fluids, whether that's nose juice or saliva or blood or semen or vaginal secretions as one way you can get a direct transfer. Uh, surfaces on which bodily fluids have dried, which is kind of scary to think about. Yeah, you know you wanted to keep all those secretions like off of surfaces because the virus can live outside of the body for a while. Apparently flu virus can live for seven days just on the surface. Yeah, that's why, like you sneeze in your hand and you open the door to your office, then there's there could be little virus on that door knob and um, that's why they super advise. And one of the things that we're advising now is to wash your hands a lot if you're sick or if you know that there are sickness around you. Like I wouldn't be Howard Hughes about it, but I wash my hands a lot when I know that there's viruses going around. I started washing my hands a lot more once I've found out or was told what you're actually doing when you're washing your hand, Um, you're not actually killing anything on your hands, any germs. What you're doing by introducing soap is you're creating something that will basically go and cling to germs on your hands. And then when you wash off the soap, you're washing off the germs. So you're not like waging war or anything like that. You're basically just rinsing your hands clean. Literally. So once once I realized that, I was like, oh, yeah, washing washing hands makes a lot of sense, because before that I was like some doesn't do anything. Yeah, like and I don't even use antibacterial soap as a rule. But so I was like, it's definitely not doing anything. Now like it is doing something. So let's wash our hands as often as possible. That's a good idea and a really long T shirt. If you are sick, you're going to want to cover your mouth when you sneeze and cough, because that's just common decency. Um, you want to avoid contact with anyone else's bodily fluids, whether you're sick or not. And whether they're sick or not. It's just you don't want to have anyone else's bodily fluids on you, r in you unless you know you're like married or something. Right then, unless you really love that person, the fluids are welcome. Uh. And antibiotics and this this thing's gotten blue a few times. It's a very sexy show. Yeah, sexy virus. Uh, antibiotics aren't gonna help with um a viral infection that is obviously for bacterial infections only. Yes, But it occurred to me, Chuck that if you you could cure a viral infection, if a in a bacteria with antibiotics would be kind of like euthanasia, but it would cure the viral infections. Good point, bacteria infected with the virus. That's how tough viruses are. And we have no idea how they originated or where they came from. We don't. We just know they're super old and the ones that are the oldest are the ones that kill the least. Yeah, if you think about it, a virus would just, by right of natural selection, evolved to be able to reproduce without killing the host, because if the host survives, then that just increases the chances of the virus to be spread from most host Right, So a really deadly virus is probably newer as far as humanity is concerned. And a virus that can infect more organism, more types of organisms, like one that could make grass sick but also make a human sick, that's probably a pretty old virus. Old virus just sounds intimidating. Well, we have like basically what amounts to fossilized viruses in our DNA from all those viruses as retroviruses that came in inserted as genetic material, and our body learned to mount a defense against them. But that that stuff is still in the human genome. Crazy viruses. Uh. There. There are also immunizations, of course, and you know how they work. They pre infect your body so it knows, you know how to mount the the fight against it to make sure it has all the right equipment. It's like putting up wanted posters in your body. Yeah, but those virus has changed slightly, ever so slightly enough to where you have to keep updating these vaccines so you know it keeps working well, Yeah, you know, yeah, they evolve fairly quickly. Um. Lastly, Chuck, I want to address something. There is a I guess a misconception or urban legend or whatever that you can tell where there you have a viral infection or a back sterial infection um or what kind of virus you have based on the color of your mucus. We talked about fluorescent or something like that. They they don't in and of themselves relate to a specific type of virus or bacterial or viral infection or anything like that. It's not true. So that's viruses. Yeah, I got nothing else. It is good to know how this stuff works out because, um, you know, when you get sick, you understand a little better. Maybe you can mentally fight the stuff more effectively. I'm doing it right now. You see how I'm bleeding from my scalp. Oh my god, I'm using a lot of mental power. It's amazing. If you want to know more about viruses, you can start by typing that word into the search bar at how stuff works dot com and it will bring up this cool article. And I said how stuff works. So it's time for listener mail. I'm gonna call this Headstones. My name is Georgia Gilbert. I'm a new but enthusiastic fan from the University of Washington Huskies. I was listening to your Tombstone's podcast, and I want to say that the move to churchyard burials is a bit more complicated than you implied, uh If I remember correctly, burials in churchyards began mostly as a common practice because of the plague. Churches would sell spots for burial within the church itself, in the walls and the floors, etcetera, because there was a common belief during the Middle Ages that being buried in the church was being very closer to God, and if you're very closer to God, the better off you're going to be in the afterlife, the reasoning goes. Many people would actually get spots within their local church to be buried, or at least very close to the walls outside. During the plague gears, however, the amount of bodies accumulated to be buried became too much, and they began to bury people further outside the church, even if they had paid for a spot inside. I read a great book on death in London through the Ages that talked about it that was called Necropolis. Highly recommend it. So thanks for teaching me such awesome Stuff guys, I can now ask my mother in law intelligent questions about growing up in Germany during the Cold War thanks to your Berlin Wall program. Nice and that is from Georgia. That was fascinating. The plague, by the way, it was bacterial, not viral, in case anybody was one doing like me. Yeah, we did one in the plague, right we did? Yeah, black death or black plague. Yeah, anyway, who is that again, Georgia. Thanks a lot, Georgia. We appreciate that. That was a great email. If you have a great email, you can try to tweet it to us if it's short at s y s K podcast. You can post it on Facebook if you like, at Facebook, dot com slash Stuff you Should Know, or you can send us an email like a normal person to stuff podcast at how stuff Works dot com and as always, in the meantime, hang out with us at our home on the web. Stuff you Should Know dot Com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works for more podcasts for my Heart Radio because at the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows
