Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here too. Dave's here in spirit like Obi wan Kenobi. So let's get started.

Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here too. Dave's here in spirit like Obi wan Kenobi. So let's get started.

That's right. And you cobbled this together. And this is about the long U caves.

That's right. And you cobbled this together. And this is about the long U caves.

I think cobbled is generous here.

I think cobbled is generous here.

No, it's fine. These caves in China, specifically the how would you pronounce that, Josh, The province, yeah, Jiujiang, the Jujiang province in China where in the early nineties and nineteen ninety two, specifically, the people that lived in the villages near these ponds. There's ponds all over the place there. Yeah, but they are all these sort of historical rumors of some of them being bottomless, these bottomless ponds kind of Chinese lore. And one day this guy and actually found his name, and now I can't find it. His name was Wu, I do know that. But he said, you know what, I'm going to find out what's going on. I saw some places say that he caught this enormous fish in one, but I think that's not true because part of the thing about these ponds is that they had no fish.

No, it's fine. These caves in China, specifically the how would you pronounce that, Josh, The province, yeah, Jiujiang, the Jujiang province in China where in the early nineties and nineteen ninety two, specifically, the people that lived in the villages near these ponds. There's ponds all over the place there. Yeah, but they are all these sort of historical rumors of some of them being bottomless, these bottomless ponds kind of Chinese lore. And one day this guy and actually found his name, and now I can't find it. His name was Wu, I do know that. But he said, you know what, I'm going to find out what's going on. I saw some places say that he caught this enormous fish in one, but I think that's not true because part of the thing about these ponds is that they had no fish.

Yeah, that they were totally devoid of life.

Yeah, that they were totally devoid of life.

But I saw two different things that he caught this giant fish and was intrigued, but I just think that's made up. Bs.

But I saw two different things that he caught this giant fish and was intrigued, but I just think that's made up. Bs.

Okay, that's great that you laid that out there, because we should probably say there's a lot of questions about all of this.

Okay, that's great that you laid that out there, because we should probably say there's a lot of questions about all of this.

There really is. It's surprisingly hard to get a lot of stuff on this. So anyway, he was intrigued and said, I'm going to buy a water pump and I'm going to drain that thing. And as the story goes, they ended up investing as a village into several more water pumps and after seventeen days of pumping, drained this thing to see if it was in fact a bottomless pond. What did they find.

There really is. It's surprisingly hard to get a lot of stuff on this. So anyway, he was intrigued and said, I'm going to buy a water pump and I'm going to drain that thing. And as the story goes, they ended up investing as a village into several more water pumps and after seventeen days of pumping, drained this thing to see if it was in fact a bottomless pond. What did they find.

They found not just in that one pod, but five ponds, really deep caverns that you'd be like, oh, okay, that's kind of a neat thing to find a cavern that was filled with water that everybody thought was a pond. But wait, all you had to do was peer over the surface into this cavern and you would see a staircase that had been carved into the rock descending below into the darkness.

They found not just in that one pod, but five ponds, really deep caverns that you'd be like, oh, okay, that's kind of a neat thing to find a cavern that was filled with water that everybody thought was a pond. But wait, all you had to do was peer over the surface into this cavern and you would see a staircase that had been carved into the rock descending below into the darkness.

Wh yeah, yeah, and these are this is the mystery of the long U caves. Because they still don't know, and this is what we'll talk about, you know, probably in part two. They still don't know why these things were built, this amazing system of underwater caverns, or well originally underwater but just underground caverns. Now, how many were there in total? I think twenty four they ended up finding.

Wh yeah, yeah, and these are this is the mystery of the long U caves. Because they still don't know, and this is what we'll talk about, you know, probably in part two. They still don't know why these things were built, this amazing system of underwater caverns, or well originally underwater but just underground caverns. Now, how many were there in total? I think twenty four they ended up finding.

Yeah, they found twenty four of them, five major ones and nineteen slightly smaller ones.

Yeah, they found twenty four of them, five major ones and nineteen slightly smaller ones.

Yeah, one is a tourist attraction. Now maybe more that was even hard to find out for sure, but at least one.

Yeah, one is a tourist attraction. Now maybe more that was even hard to find out for sure, but at least one.

The whole thing, this whole system of what they call grottos, of twenty four grottos covers seven and a half acres and the biggest one has a ceiling that's one hundred feet off of the floor. Yeah, soaring thirty meters plus. That's a really tall cave and a really long staircase. And also you would say, well, wait a minute, how is this thing even being held up? My friend? They carved pillars that held this thing up. And that's just the very beginning of all the astounding stuff that there is to say about these caves.

The whole thing, this whole system of what they call grottos, of twenty four grottos covers seven and a half acres and the biggest one has a ceiling that's one hundred feet off of the floor. Yeah, soaring thirty meters plus. That's a really tall cave and a really long staircase. And also you would say, well, wait a minute, how is this thing even being held up? My friend? They carved pillars that held this thing up. And that's just the very beginning of all the astounding stuff that there is to say about these caves.

Do you carve a pillar or do you carve everything? Around what will eventually be a pillar.

Do you carve a pillar or do you carve everything? Around what will eventually be a pillar.

They say that, I think Michelangelo saw, like in a slab of marble, like raw marble, what he was supposed to chip away to reveal, you know, David beneath or something like that. So yeah, I mean, just what a great way of looking at things.

They say that, I think Michelangelo saw, like in a slab of marble, like raw marble, what he was supposed to chip away to reveal, you know, David beneath or something like that. So yeah, I mean, just what a great way of looking at things.

He stared at it, and he could just see that flaccid.

He stared at it, and he could just see that flaccid.

Penis right, he could hear.

Penis right, he could hear.

All right, So let's talk a little bit more about these because when you walk down those steps, you're gonna find those pillars, and then you're gonna look around at these walls and you're gonna be like, hold on a second. If I look at all these walls, I will notice and the ceilings, mind you, like basically all of the surface except for the floor, right.

All right, So let's talk a little bit more about these because when you walk down those steps, you're gonna find those pillars, and then you're gonna look around at these walls and you're gonna be like, hold on a second. If I look at all these walls, I will notice and the ceilings, mind you, like basically all of the surface except for the floor, right.

I don't think the floor has them.

I don't think the floor has them.

Now you will find it is made up of these carved out parallel or I saw one sort of poo poo or call them parallelish parallel lines that are How wide are these things?

Now you will find it is made up of these carved out parallel or I saw one sort of poo poo or call them parallelish parallel lines that are How wide are these things?

Well, it depends. So if you're talking about the parallel lines that go that circle all the way down a pillar, they're usually about twenty four inches wide.

Well, it depends. So if you're talking about the parallel lines that go that circle all the way down a pillar, they're usually about twenty four inches wide.

I'm talking about the ones on the walls.

I'm talking about the ones on the walls.

They vary in length okay, or width both okay, but they'll vary in width from like say, this wall to that wall in a local area. They're all going in generally the same direction, they're generally the same link, they're generally the same.

They vary in length okay, or width both okay, but they'll vary in width from like say, this wall to that wall in a local area. They're all going in generally the same direction, they're generally the same link, they're generally the same.

Width, right.

Width, right.

But when you put it all together, it has this amazing effect of creating a uniform textured background to everything that's on these walls and to the walls themselves, the pillars themselves, they're adorned with texture.

But when you put it all together, it has this amazing effect of creating a uniform textured background to everything that's on these walls and to the walls themselves, the pillars themselves, they're adorned with texture.

That's right. And within each of these sort of carved out lines are smaller vertical clearly like chisel marks that are chisel at a sixty degree angle to the vertical surface of the wall or the pillar or whatever it is.

That's right. And within each of these sort of carved out lines are smaller vertical clearly like chisel marks that are chisel at a sixty degree angle to the vertical surface of the wall or the pillar or whatever it is.

Yeah, so it's definitely human hands had a big role in shaping these things.

Yeah, so it's definitely human hands had a big role in shaping these things.

Lots and lots of human hands. And I guess we can take a break now and we'll talk about all this other good stuff right after this. So first of all, how old is this stuff? We should talk about that for a second.

Lots and lots of human hands. And I guess we can take a break now and we'll talk about all this other good stuff right after this. So first of all, how old is this stuff? We should talk about that for a second.

That's a great question, Chuck.

That's a great question, Chuck.

Well, probably about two thousand years old.

Well, probably about two thousand years old.

That's the guess. And the reason that they're saying that is that they found pottery embedded in the silt on the floor of this thing when they drained it of these caves, and that this pottery dated to about the reign of Emperor Swan I think the tenth emperor of the Han dynasty, and his reign was up to forty eight BCE, so over two thousand years ago is when these caves would have been dug.

That's the guess. And the reason that they're saying that is that they found pottery embedded in the silt on the floor of this thing when they drained it of these caves, and that this pottery dated to about the reign of Emperor Swan I think the tenth emperor of the Han dynasty, and his reign was up to forty eight BCE, so over two thousand years ago is when these caves would have been dug.

Yeah, exactly. And another weird thing about this system is that usually you would know because the Chinese were great about keeping records and documenting stuff like this, like exactly like this. Yeah, they have found no documentation anywhere ever about how this was done or what these things were used for.

Yeah, exactly. And another weird thing about this system is that usually you would know because the Chinese were great about keeping records and documenting stuff like this, like exactly like this. Yeah, they have found no documentation anywhere ever about how this was done or what these things were used for.

Yeah, the closest they could come was a poem from the seventeenth century written by Yushun, who was writing over fifteen hundred years after these caves were o sensibly carved, And that's the only mention they have. And it's really weird, like why would it not be documented by a culture that documented everything. The other thing about it, Chuck, is that it doesn't match any of the other minds quarries, grottos, ceremonial sites, palaces. It just as it's they're their own thing. There's one other group of grottos called the Hua Shan Grottos. They're also build as mysterious, but supposedly they were built about fifteen hundred years after the ones in long U, the long U Caves.

Yeah, the closest they could come was a poem from the seventeenth century written by Yushun, who was writing over fifteen hundred years after these caves were o sensibly carved, And that's the only mention they have. And it's really weird, like why would it not be documented by a culture that documented everything. The other thing about it, Chuck, is that it doesn't match any of the other minds quarries, grottos, ceremonial sites, palaces. It just as it's they're their own thing. There's one other group of grottos called the Hua Shan Grottos. They're also build as mysterious, but supposedly they were built about fifteen hundred years after the ones in long U, the long U Caves.

Yeah, another couple of remarkable things is that each one of these has only one entrance, like you're talking about that vertical shaft staircase. So it's not like they're connected together. Although they are beside one another, they neighbor one another, sometimes to the point where these walls are just a couple of feet thick between them, but you can't move from one to another while you're down there. And then once you get down there, they found that they used to have these drainage channels and ways to drain them in this like sort of central water pool that would collect water. Yeah, but they eventually completely filled with water. And a lot of this still is you know, guesswork, because they really just don't know much about it, but they think that they flooded over time because these drains stopped working.

Yeah, another couple of remarkable things is that each one of these has only one entrance, like you're talking about that vertical shaft staircase. So it's not like they're connected together. Although they are beside one another, they neighbor one another, sometimes to the point where these walls are just a couple of feet thick between them, but you can't move from one to another while you're down there. And then once you get down there, they found that they used to have these drainage channels and ways to drain them in this like sort of central water pool that would collect water. Yeah, but they eventually completely filled with water. And a lot of this still is you know, guesswork, because they really just don't know much about it, but they think that they flooded over time because these drains stopped working.

Yeah, and clearly the people who built these were incredibly talented, because, like you said, they shared walls, and those walls in some cases were only two feet thick, and if you're carving out spaces independently and you're using a shared wall, you're at a really high risk of carving into the other chamber, the other room through the wall. They didn't they figured out that precisely how to carve the next chamber that shared the wall with the first chamber without puncturing that shared wall. That's really tough to do.

Yeah, and clearly the people who built these were incredibly talented, because, like you said, they shared walls, and those walls in some cases were only two feet thick, and if you're carving out spaces independently and you're using a shared wall, you're at a really high risk of carving into the other chamber, the other room through the wall. They didn't they figured out that precisely how to carve the next chamber that shared the wall with the first chamber without puncturing that shared wall. That's really tough to do.

Oh totally. And they didn't just go in there with like the biggest tools that were available to them at the time. They and you know, it's because we're these these little lines that are carved. They've basically settled on the fact that like lots and lots of people did this with pretty small tools like chisels and hammers, basically when they could have used bigger things at the time.

Oh totally. And they didn't just go in there with like the biggest tools that were available to them at the time. They and you know, it's because we're these these little lines that are carved. They've basically settled on the fact that like lots and lots of people did this with pretty small tools like chisels and hammers, basically when they could have used bigger things at the time.

Yeah, I saw that they think that they actually carved from the surface of the ground downward, layer by layer, that that's how they carved it out. So they're carving this pillar over here by you know, along the way, they were carving another pillar over here along the way, and they just kept carving down with chisels. So there's an estimate. I'm not sure who estimated this.

Yeah, I saw that they think that they actually carved from the surface of the ground downward, layer by layer, that that's how they carved it out. So they're carving this pillar over here by you know, along the way, they were carving another pillar over here along the way, and they just kept carving down with chisels. So there's an estimate. I'm not sure who estimated this.

This is all over the internet the home.

This is all over the internet the home.

It was worried for sure. We got it from Interesting Engineering, so blame them. We tried to go as legit a source as we could, and they said that in an estimate with tools at the time, just removing the rock, not the like intricate carving or anything like that, but just to remove the rock to create the caverns would have taken one thousand people six years if they worked twenty four straight hours. Yeah, so that's pretty nuts because they would have moved a million cubic meters of rock. This didn't soil everybody. This is siltstone. It's very hard rock that they carved into.

It was worried for sure. We got it from Interesting Engineering, so blame them. We tried to go as legit a source as we could, and they said that in an estimate with tools at the time, just removing the rock, not the like intricate carving or anything like that, but just to remove the rock to create the caverns would have taken one thousand people six years if they worked twenty four straight hours. Yeah, so that's pretty nuts because they would have moved a million cubic meters of rock. This didn't soil everybody. This is siltstone. It's very hard rock that they carved into.

Yeah, and there's no evidence of where all that stuff went, that million cubic meters of rock, because it's not like there's you know, a big mountain nearby of some stacked siltstone. There were no tools that they found. They're they're surmising this chisel and hammer thing from how you know, like the end result, not the fact that they found a bunch of chisels and hammers down there right like after some great flood or something. And then you mentioned the intricate patterns there. It's not just the carving and the walls and the ceilings and these pillars. But there is art down there, like bass relief carvings all over the place and almost everywhere I found said that this is almost certainly came much much later, yea, and was not done at the time.

Yeah, and there's no evidence of where all that stuff went, that million cubic meters of rock, because it's not like there's you know, a big mountain nearby of some stacked siltstone. There were no tools that they found. They're they're surmising this chisel and hammer thing from how you know, like the end result, not the fact that they found a bunch of chisels and hammers down there right like after some great flood or something. And then you mentioned the intricate patterns there. It's not just the carving and the walls and the ceilings and these pillars. But there is art down there, like bass relief carvings all over the place and almost everywhere I found said that this is almost certainly came much much later, yea, and was not done at the time.

Well, let's get into it, because I think we should finish on skepticism, shall we shall?

Well, let's get into it, because I think we should finish on skepticism, shall we shall?

We shall?

We shall?

So some people are like that boss relief thing is a great example of questioning anything we know about this because sources, legitimate sources will be like, this boss relief is and shockingly good condition, having been underwater for centuries, and skeptical sources say, probably it's because it was carved after these things were drained in the nineties to enhance their attraction for tourists, and that over here in the West, we're like, wow, look at that boss relief. It's like it was carved within the last thirty years. Yeah, And it's just a misunderstanding. So when you learn about that, it starts to make you a question, Well, okay, what else is just misunderstanding? What else is just the tourist board in China saying something and we're not quite getting it, and we think that this is a mystery more than it.

So some people are like that boss relief thing is a great example of questioning anything we know about this because sources, legitimate sources will be like, this boss relief is and shockingly good condition, having been underwater for centuries, and skeptical sources say, probably it's because it was carved after these things were drained in the nineties to enhance their attraction for tourists, and that over here in the West, we're like, wow, look at that boss relief. It's like it was carved within the last thirty years. Yeah, And it's just a misunderstanding. So when you learn about that, it starts to make you a question, Well, okay, what else is just misunderstanding? What else is just the tourist board in China saying something and we're not quite getting it, and we think that this is a mystery more than it.

Is exactly because you do have to keep that in mind, like what we're talking about or where we're talking about. There have been theories over the years of what it could have been. None of them completely make sense. If it was like a mine, it wouldn't have been they wouldn't have taken so much time to make it so sort of precise and intricate. If it was a palace, because some people have put that forward, it would have had rooms. This is like, I don't know if we got it across. Each one is like its own just huge room. And that's not how palaces were. They had different chambers in different rooms. And another thing was maybe it's a garrison for troops, but they wouldn't have taken so long to do something like that.

Is exactly because you do have to keep that in mind, like what we're talking about or where we're talking about. There have been theories over the years of what it could have been. None of them completely make sense. If it was like a mine, it wouldn't have been they wouldn't have taken so much time to make it so sort of precise and intricate. If it was a palace, because some people have put that forward, it would have had rooms. This is like, I don't know if we got it across. Each one is like its own just huge room. And that's not how palaces were. They had different chambers in different rooms. And another thing was maybe it's a garrison for troops, but they wouldn't have taken so long to do something like that.

Probably no, they would have needed garrisons like much more quickly. You don't, you know, it's not something that you would take, you know, six years, using one thousand people for twenty four hours a day.

Probably no, they would have needed garrisons like much more quickly. You don't, you know, it's not something that you would take, you know, six years, using one thousand people for twenty four hours a day.

It's a heck of a foxhole.

It's a heck of a foxhole.

You exactly right.

You exactly right.

I did see one video of this woman online put forward the idea that it's sort of like an Okham's razor thing. Wait is Okham's razor. Yeah, that's the simplest explanation, right, Yeah, yeah, they were cisterns, and she had a lot of compelling reasons why she thinks they were sistern uh. And a lot of people in the comments this is.

I did see one video of this woman online put forward the idea that it's sort of like an Okham's razor thing. Wait is Okham's razor. Yeah, that's the simplest explanation, right, Yeah, yeah, they were cisterns, and she had a lot of compelling reasons why she thinks they were sistern uh. And a lot of people in the comments this is.

YouTube, of course, they're like, I'm gonna kill your family.

YouTube, of course, they're like, I'm gonna kill your family.

Now. A lot of people are like, that actually makes a lot of sense. And she compared them to different cisterns at other places in the world that kind of had some similar looks, and that, you know, they they functioned well as cisterns because they collected a ton of water that they had still been using for fresh water.

Now. A lot of people are like, that actually makes a lot of sense. And she compared them to different cisterns at other places in the world that kind of had some similar looks, and that, you know, they they functioned well as cisterns because they collected a ton of water that they had still been using for fresh water.

Yeah. Yeah, And I'm sure the ancestors the ghosts were like, what are you doing when they saw the villagers pumping these things out?

Yeah. Yeah, And I'm sure the ancestors the ghosts were like, what are you doing when they saw the villagers pumping these things out?

Yeah? Maybe, but I don't know that. I think there are some things that don't quite hold water.

Yeah? Maybe, but I don't know that. I think there are some things that don't quite hold water.

Well no, oh boy, chuck. The biggest one is I'm sorry we didn't finish on that, but that was beautiful. The biggest one for me is why would you make such intricate carvings in a cistern?

Well no, oh boy, chuck. The biggest one is I'm sorry we didn't finish on that, but that was beautiful. The biggest one for me is why would you make such intricate carvings in a cistern?

I don't know.

I don't know.

That's a great time.

That's a great time.

That makes sense.

That makes sense.

So from what we can tell, there is a pretty decent amount of mystery to the Long UK's it's not just misunderstanding.

So from what we can tell, there is a pretty decent amount of mystery to the Long UK's it's not just misunderstanding.

Yeah, and I don't think we're probably ever going to find out for sure.

Yeah, and I don't think we're probably ever going to find out for sure.

So Chuck, what do you think about the idea that they were cisterns?

So Chuck, what do you think about the idea that they were cisterns?

I think it doesn't hold water.

I think it doesn't hold water.

Beautiful Short Stuff is apt.

Beautiful Short Stuff is apt.

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Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.