Hey, welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck and Jerry's here and this is short stuff a great one because it has to do with ecology, environment, biology, drama, matchbooks. That's right. I came across this because I was on how Stuff Works dot com because I was putting something together that we're not doing now but I hope to do soon. On symbiosis. Oh yeah, and this is not symbiosis, so it was mentioned as kind of not the opposite of symbiosis, but that was something that's you know, runs a foul of symbiosis. It's symbiosis is more confusing cousin, more selfish cousin. It's very difficult to pin down in some weird ways. But we're talking commence. All is um, and the based definition of commence ai is um is that um. It happens when an animal benefits another animal or organism just by doing its own thing, and it's not affected by it one way or the other. The other animal like benefits from it, but there's no there's no like tip for tat, there's no um harm in it. There's it's just kind of a thing. Yeah, it's a kind of cooperation Uh. A couple of things that it's not that we should probably mention Besides, symbiosis is uh, it doesn't mean you're a parasite. Parasitism is when something is actually causing harm to another thing by sort of sponging off of them, like the movie parasite, that's right. Or uh, you know, or a parasite that lives on your body and feeds on the host and the host may not be aware of it, but that's damaging the host, like the movie Alien. Right, that's right. Uh. It's also not mutualism, in which that that's a little more line with symbiosis, in which both partners are benefiting from this relationship, like bees and flowers. They each get a little something. They're scratching each other's backs and it's all good, like the movie Wall Street. Right, Oh man, we should just make this the whole episode. Uh. Commence Alism though, is like you said, uh, and they're actually called commence als is which is the one that is benefiting, not the one that is unawares and just sort of neither benefiting nor being harmed. And benefiting is kind of one way to put it. You could also say that commence al also requires the other animal to go about their daily business for that one to survive. Sometimes. Yeah, let's give a let's give a great example here that is found in this house stuff Works article about Eastern screech owls and blind snakes chalk. This is interesting, Uh, I thought so too. So Eastern screech owls love to eat blind snakes. It's their favorite delicacy. It's like fall graw sushi and tika masala to the average American, love it right, Okay, And so the eastern screech owld brings a bunch of blind snakes back to its nest to feed their chicks, which is usually bad for the blind snakes, But some blind snakes get away and they actually burrow into the nest, deeper into the nest, out of the reach of the owls, and they live there. And while they live there, they actually feed on little bugs in the nest. That's right, uh, those little larvae, and those larvae would probably be parasites upon the owl. Right. So there's a lot of benefit going on here, right, But in particular, the blind snake is providing the benefit to the blind owl because studies have shown that that um I guess hatchlings Eastern screech owl. Hatchlings that are raised in nests where there's blind snakes embedded in them typically grow bigger, faster, stronger, etcetera. And they have a lower mortality rate than UH than hatchlings that are raised in nests where there's not blind snakes. So it does seem like the benefit they're providing is getting rid of the parasite load in that nest. But as far as the blind snake is concerned, it's just eating. It's doing its normal thing. What's a blind snake? It's a snake that is blind, as far as I know. I looked him up, and it's a It is a specific thing. It's not just like any snake that's blind, obviously, But um, I had never really heard of them before. I had neither. What's an owl? I have no idea. I told you about the owl cafe that you mean, and I went to in Tokyo, right, I don't think so. It was very nice. I would have remembered this. It was so neat. Are you in there with owls? Yes, like they're right there. You can hold them on your hand, you can pet them. And I realized that it's like, it's not their natural habitat, like they're capped and all that. But it was very cool and they were very well taken care of as far as captive animals go. Um, but it was it was a really neat experience. Yeah, it's okay to think that's a neat experience. Are you sure? I'm so nervous right now, I think so. I mean, I'm I'm going We're finally going to Disney World in a couple of weeks, and we're staying at Animal Kingdom, and I really want to wake up with a giraffe standing outside my window. Yeah, go and work up. Does that make me a bad person? Yeah, we're wanting to delight my well myself. Frankly, are you going to go on the Avatar ride? It's supposedly the greatest ride humans have ever created. We're actually going to Animal Kingdom. We're just staying there. We have three park days, so we're doing okay, and that's not one of them. Now, we're doing Kingdom, Hollywood Studios and then uh Universal, I'll tell you what your daughter is going to love. Hollywood Studios, Toy story Land. It is that nuts how well they did that? Yeah, I don't, I don't think we're prepared for the delight that is to follow. It's great. Yeah, and big shout out to our buddy Brandon. Yes, might as well. Who's who's helping us out. He works down there and he's just very kind and generous with especially if you don't know how to navigate Disney with all the tips and stuff. Yeah, he's just a wonderful guy, good stuff. Started out as a fan who reached out and quickly became a true friendage right, all right, So, hey, we needed a little padding, So we'll come back right after this and talk a little bit more about commencelism. Thanks for the padding, Brandon, just like start so much, alright, Chuck. So this article basically practically admits that ecologists don't really know how to define commence all is um but they're like, but we still have it separated into three categories. That's right. The first, which is in quillonism, sounds totally made up. Uh. That is, when a species lives on or inside another can be in that nest, like the blind snake living in the nest of the owl. Uh. Anytime it's within a There's another example they give of the gopher tortoise. Uh. Southeastern US. They have these really long tunnels, like you know, sometimes thirty to fifty feet in length, and that of course becomes a home for lots of different things, mainly insects, but some of them have like evolved over the years to need to live there, and some of them, including this one moth, can only feed on the keratin of the shells of these dead gophers. Ye, that's niche right there, that's super niche. And so it's not just that moth. There's a bunch of others. There's a bunch of other kinds of animals too, But yeah, that moth is about as big a commence al as you'll find in nature. Um. There's another type of commence ali is um called metabiosis, which sounds kind of similar, but it's where an organism unintentionally creates a habitat for another. This is really where we get to the point where I'm saying, like commence all is um, they don't know what they're talking about. Somebody figured out something that didn't hold out to be true and they ended up creating a whole subdiscipline of ecology out of it. Yes, because there is no example that we have gone over or will go over that you can't ascribe to something else. Symbiosis parasite is yes, and now it's commence as um. It's a very confusing thing that we're doing right now. Yeah, but didn't that kind of a lot of science is the more you know, the more you can drill down and separate things out with their minor distinctions. Yes, if there are actual distinctions that separate them out, that's what I'm saying. I don't think there are, Like, like, let me give you an example. So gopher tortoises, right, so there's commence als that live there that don't just feed on the the gopher tortoise. I will give you that one, that moth that feeds exclusively on the keratin from gopher tortoises. Okay, that's probably a true commence a list relationship. But the kind of animals that living gopher tortoise holes, that eat parasites in the gopher tortoise hole, that's symbiosis. Man, There's no way around it. There. The gopher has provided a place for these animals to live. The animals are eating the parasites that would otherwise be sucking the life force out of the gopher. Tortoise. That's symbiosis. There's no other definition for it. And that's given as an example of commence a ism. But I didn't did I didn't see that they did eat the parasites it would harm the gopher. Yeah, some of them do. It says that they likely lower parasite loads for tortoises. See that now even highlighted it. Yeah, that's that's mutualism. Well, should we talk about the last category? Should we just throw this in the trash? Now? Let's talk about it the last one. This is fun to kick it around, all right? Come here you uh foresty p h O R E s y. That's when an animal attaches to another physically, uh, to catch a ride. Basically. Okay, this one is commence a list. I'll give you that, all right. Do you want to talk about an example that's not a biosis? That just annoys me because it's the same thing as in quillon is um and a lot of its symbiosis. But yeah, for c is like um. Like, if you're a mite that catches a ride on a b you can go from Mtville to my town really quick, whereas otherwise you may never go there in your life time. As a might because you can't make it that far you But as far as the bee is concerned, it's not. As long as you're not feeding on it like a parasite. The bee couldn't care less. It's not getting any benefit from it, it's not being harmed from it. But I'll bet the might still feeding on it, which makes it parasite is um not commence ali is um. Okay, I was gonna make a judgment on whether or not I'm with you on this, but then I decided I didn't care. That was very right minded of you, get good um. There is one point that I think is worth making though, that commence ai is um can actually put an entire ecosystem under stress, especially if you take the example of that moth that feeds on gopher tortoise keratin. Right, if you take that moth and gopher tortoises suddenly die off, you're not just losing the gopher tortoise, You're also going to lose that moth species too. They're going to die off too because they're fully dependent on gopher tortoise shells. They're gonna have a bonanza at first, and then eventually they're going to run out of food, and that the more commensali is um you have in an ecosystem, the shakier ground that ecosystem is built on. You want species, ideally to keep it as biodiverse as possible, that can basically stand on their own, that aren't so fully interrelated that they can't exist without another species creating a home for them, or um providing food for them or something, or giving them rides from might build might town. But we should be good since there are very very few examples of true commence als. Right, that's my that's my take. I'm glad we're good. Yeah, I'm glad we're good. To Chuck, do you think we're out? I think we're out. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Hey, welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck and Jerry's here and this is short stuff a great one because it has to do with ecology, environment, biology, drama, matchbooks. That's right. I came across this because I was on how Stuff Works dot com because I was putting something together that we're not doing now but I hope to do soon. On symbiosis. Oh yeah, and this is not symbiosis, so it was mentioned as kind of not the opposite of symbiosis, but that was something that's you know, runs a foul of symbiosis. It's symbiosis is more confusing cousin, more selfish cousin. It's very difficult to pin down in some weird ways. But we're talking commence. All is um, and the based definition of commence ai is um is that um. It happens when an animal benefits another animal or organism just by doing its own thing, and it's not affected by it one way or the other. The other animal like benefits from it, but there's no there's no like tip for tat, there's no um harm in it. There's it's just kind of a thing. Yeah, it's a kind of cooperation Uh. A couple of things that it's not that we should probably mention Besides, symbiosis is uh, it doesn't mean you're a parasite. Parasitism is when something is actually causing harm to another thing by sort of sponging off of them, like the movie parasite, that's right. Or uh, you know, or a parasite that lives on your body and feeds on the host and the host may not be aware of it, but that's damaging the host, like the movie Alien. Right, that's right. Uh. It's also not mutualism, in which that that's a little more line with symbiosis, in which both partners are benefiting from this relationship, like bees and flowers. They each get a little something. They're scratching each other's backs and it's all good, like the movie Wall Street. Right, Oh man, we should just make this the whole episode. Uh. Commence Alism though, is like you said, uh, and they're actually called commence als is which is the one that is benefiting, not the one that is unawares and just sort of neither benefiting nor being harmed. And benefiting is kind of one way to put it. You could also say that commence al also requires the other animal to go about their daily business for that one to survive. Sometimes. Yeah, let's give a let's give a great example here that is found in this house stuff Works article about Eastern screech owls and blind snakes chalk. This is interesting, Uh, I thought so too. So Eastern screech owls love to eat blind snakes. It's their favorite delicacy. It's like fall graw sushi and tika masala to the average American, love it right, Okay, And so the eastern screech owld brings a bunch of blind snakes back to its nest to feed their chicks, which is usually bad for the blind snakes, But some blind snakes get away and they actually burrow into the nest, deeper into the nest, out of the reach of the owls, and they live there. And while they live there, they actually feed on little bugs in the nest. That's right, uh, those little larvae, and those larvae would probably be parasites upon the owl. Right. So there's a lot of benefit going on here, right, But in particular, the blind snake is providing the benefit to the blind owl because studies have shown that that um I guess hatchlings Eastern screech owl. Hatchlings that are raised in nests where there's blind snakes embedded in them typically grow bigger, faster, stronger, etcetera. And they have a lower mortality rate than UH than hatchlings that are raised in nests where there's not blind snakes. So it does seem like the benefit they're providing is getting rid of the parasite load in that nest. But as far as the blind snake is concerned, it's just eating. It's doing its normal thing. What's a blind snake? It's a snake that is blind, as far as I know. I looked him up, and it's a It is a specific thing. It's not just like any snake that's blind, obviously, But um, I had never really heard of them before. I had neither. What's an owl? I have no idea. I told you about the owl cafe that you mean, and I went to in Tokyo, right, I don't think so. It was very nice. I would have remembered this. It was so neat. Are you in there with owls? Yes, like they're right there. You can hold them on your hand, you can pet them. And I realized that it's like, it's not their natural habitat, like they're capped and all that. But it was very cool and they were very well taken care of as far as captive animals go. Um, but it was it was a really neat experience. Yeah, it's okay to think that's a neat experience. Are you sure? I'm so nervous right now, I think so. I mean, I'm I'm going We're finally going to Disney World in a couple of weeks, and we're staying at Animal Kingdom, and I really want to wake up with a giraffe standing outside my window. Yeah, go and work up. Does that make me a bad person? Yeah, we're wanting to delight my well myself. Frankly, are you going to go on the Avatar ride? It's supposedly the greatest ride humans have ever created. We're actually going to Animal Kingdom. We're just staying there. We have three park days, so we're doing okay, and that's not one of them. Now, we're doing Kingdom, Hollywood Studios and then uh Universal, I'll tell you what your daughter is going to love. Hollywood Studios, Toy story Land. It is that nuts how well they did that? Yeah, I don't, I don't think we're prepared for the delight that is to follow. It's great. Yeah, and big shout out to our buddy Brandon. Yes, might as well. Who's who's helping us out. He works down there and he's just very kind and generous with especially if you don't know how to navigate Disney with all the tips and stuff. Yeah, he's just a wonderful guy, good stuff. Started out as a fan who reached out and quickly became a true friendage right, all right, So, hey, we needed a little padding, So we'll come back right after this and talk a little bit more about commencelism. Thanks for the padding, Brandon, just like start so much, alright, Chuck. So this article basically practically admits that ecologists don't really know how to define commence all is um but they're like, but we still have it separated into three categories. That's right. The first, which is in quillonism, sounds totally made up. Uh. That is, when a species lives on or inside another can be in that nest, like the blind snake living in the nest of the owl. Uh. Anytime it's within a There's another example they give of the gopher tortoise. Uh. Southeastern US. They have these really long tunnels, like you know, sometimes thirty to fifty feet in length, and that of course becomes a home for lots of different things, mainly insects, but some of them have like evolved over the years to need to live there, and some of them, including this one moth, can only feed on the keratin of the shells of these dead gophers. Ye, that's niche right there, that's super niche. And so it's not just that moth. There's a bunch of others. There's a bunch of other kinds of animals too, But yeah, that moth is about as big a commence al as you'll find in nature. Um. There's another type of commence ali is um called metabiosis, which sounds kind of similar, but it's where an organism unintentionally creates a habitat for another. This is really where we get to the point where I'm saying, like commence all is um, they don't know what they're talking about. Somebody figured out something that didn't hold out to be true and they ended up creating a whole subdiscipline of ecology out of it. Yes, because there is no example that we have gone over or will go over that you can't ascribe to something else. Symbiosis parasite is yes, and now it's commence as um. It's a very confusing thing that we're doing right now. Yeah, but didn't that kind of a lot of science is the more you know, the more you can drill down and separate things out with their minor distinctions. Yes, if there are actual distinctions that separate them out, that's what I'm saying. I don't think there are, Like, like, let me give you an example. So gopher tortoises, right, so there's commence als that live there that don't just feed on the the gopher tortoise. I will give you that one, that moth that feeds exclusively on the keratin from gopher tortoises. Okay, that's probably a true commence a list relationship. But the kind of animals that living gopher tortoise holes, that eat parasites in the gopher tortoise hole, that's symbiosis. Man, There's no way around it. There. The gopher has provided a place for these animals to live. The animals are eating the parasites that would otherwise be sucking the life force out of the gopher. Tortoise. That's symbiosis. There's no other definition for it. And that's given as an example of commence a ism. But I didn't did I didn't see that they did eat the parasites it would harm the gopher. Yeah, some of them do. It says that they likely lower parasite loads for tortoises. See that now even highlighted it. Yeah, that's that's mutualism. Well, should we talk about the last category? Should we just throw this in the trash? Now? Let's talk about it the last one. This is fun to kick it around, all right? Come here you uh foresty p h O R E s y. That's when an animal attaches to another physically, uh, to catch a ride. Basically. Okay, this one is commence a list. I'll give you that, all right. Do you want to talk about an example that's not a biosis? That just annoys me because it's the same thing as in quillon is um and a lot of its symbiosis. But yeah, for c is like um. Like, if you're a mite that catches a ride on a b you can go from Mtville to my town really quick, whereas otherwise you may never go there in your life time. As a might because you can't make it that far you But as far as the bee is concerned, it's not. As long as you're not feeding on it like a parasite. The bee couldn't care less. It's not getting any benefit from it, it's not being harmed from it. But I'll bet the might still feeding on it, which makes it parasite is um not commence ali is um. Okay, I was gonna make a judgment on whether or not I'm with you on this, but then I decided I didn't care. That was very right minded of you, get good um. There is one point that I think is worth making though, that commence ai is um can actually put an entire ecosystem under stress, especially if you take the example of that moth that feeds on gopher tortoise keratin. Right, if you take that moth and gopher tortoises suddenly die off, you're not just losing the gopher tortoise, You're also going to lose that moth species too. They're going to die off too because they're fully dependent on gopher tortoise shells. They're gonna have a bonanza at first, and then eventually they're going to run out of food, and that the more commensali is um you have in an ecosystem, the shakier ground that ecosystem is built on. You want species, ideally to keep it as biodiverse as possible, that can basically stand on their own, that aren't so fully interrelated that they can't exist without another species creating a home for them, or um providing food for them or something, or giving them rides from might build might town. But we should be good since there are very very few examples of true commence als. Right, that's my that's my take. I'm glad we're good. Yeah, I'm glad we're good. To Chuck, do you think we're out? I think we're out. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.