Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, Chuck's here too, Jerry's here to Dave's not, but you know the jam and this is short stuff. You go, Okay, I'll go. So we're talking about the Benin bronzes and they are a treasure trove of artworks that came out of Benin, which is a former kingdom. Actually it's still a current kingdom in Edo State in the south of Nigeria right now, but before Nigeria was Nigeria, Benin was a kingdom along West Africa that was a very powerful kingdom. And one of the things that they did when a new king, which they called an obah oba or a new queen mother, ascended to the throne, when there was some sort of important event or even something that they just wanted to kind of chronicle, they would make these plaques, these incredibly intricate, well made ron's plaques. And over time, over hundreds of years of creating these things and documenting the kingdom, they ended up with a lot of these things, and so much so that it became essentially considered a cultural legacy of the world, but in particular of Benin in West Africa.

Hey, and welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, Chuck's here too, Jerry's here to Dave's not, but you know the jam and this is short stuff. You go, Okay, I'll go. So we're talking about the Benin bronzes and they are a treasure trove of artworks that came out of Benin, which is a former kingdom. Actually it's still a current kingdom in Edo State in the south of Nigeria right now, but before Nigeria was Nigeria, Benin was a kingdom along West Africa that was a very powerful kingdom. And one of the things that they did when a new king, which they called an obah oba or a new queen mother, ascended to the throne, when there was some sort of important event or even something that they just wanted to kind of chronicle, they would make these plaques, these incredibly intricate, well made ron's plaques. And over time, over hundreds of years of creating these things and documenting the kingdom, they ended up with a lot of these things, and so much so that it became essentially considered a cultural legacy of the world, but in particular of Benin in West Africa.

Yeah. Absolutely, boy, what a set up.

Yeah. Absolutely, boy, what a set up.

Thanks. I've been practicing it for like eight days.

Thanks. I've been practicing it for like eight days.

I really know what you're doing. They also serve as a historical record, of course, because like you said, they came along when there were new obas and new queen mothers. So it's art and its history all wrapped up into one. And one element of the historical part of it is how it figures in, and this very much figures in with sort of the story. Here is their contact with Europeans in Europe and these countries, the first of which was the Portuguese. When they started trading and having diplomatic contacts and relations with Portugal, so they were sort of the first on board. They would send emissaries back and forth between Portugal and Benin and they negotiated their their their deal, their trade deal, their sort of how they were going to work together as people, and that's where Europe enters the picture basically as far as Benin is concerned.

I really know what you're doing. They also serve as a historical record, of course, because like you said, they came along when there were new obas and new queen mothers. So it's art and its history all wrapped up into one. And one element of the historical part of it is how it figures in, and this very much figures in with sort of the story. Here is their contact with Europeans in Europe and these countries, the first of which was the Portuguese. When they started trading and having diplomatic contacts and relations with Portugal, so they were sort of the first on board. They would send emissaries back and forth between Portugal and Benin and they negotiated their their their deal, their trade deal, their sort of how they were going to work together as people, and that's where Europe enters the picture basically as far as Benin is concerned.

Yeah, and it was just the Portuguese at first. That was I don't know if you said it or not, but starting in the fifteenth century they made contact and we're trading with them, and then shortly after that this is like the Age of Discovery, where people from Europe just started sailing around being like, hey, hey, who wants to buy our stuff? And whose stuff can we buy so or take? Yeah, yeah, exactly. They were very quickly followed by the French, the Dutch, the English, and Benins trading with all of these European nations. And they were already a fairly powerful kingdom from what I can tell, but they became exponentially powerful because they positioned themselves as the contact between European traders and countries and kingdoms and states in the interior. You wanted to trade with any other groups in West Africa, you needed to go through the Kingdom of Benin to do that if you were a European. And so they became very very powerful, and that's kind of how things went for a couple of centuries. They became really involved in the West African slave trade. They supplied slaves to the Europeans, They traded leopard skins, pepper, ivory, things that were really valued in Europe. They had a lot of stuff that the Europeans wanted, So, like I said, they became powerful. But as industrializations started to really take hold in Europe, particularly in the UK, Great Britain became more and more powerful, and essentially eventually I should say, dominated trade with West Africa and Benin in particular. But they weren't happy with having a monopoly. They wanted to get rid of Benin altogether and just be able to trade with people in the er. Why should they have a middle man, and so they started to kind of antagonize Benin and things just kind of went south from there.

Yeah, and it was just the Portuguese at first. That was I don't know if you said it or not, but starting in the fifteenth century they made contact and we're trading with them, and then shortly after that this is like the Age of Discovery, where people from Europe just started sailing around being like, hey, hey, who wants to buy our stuff? And whose stuff can we buy so or take? Yeah, yeah, exactly. They were very quickly followed by the French, the Dutch, the English, and Benins trading with all of these European nations. And they were already a fairly powerful kingdom from what I can tell, but they became exponentially powerful because they positioned themselves as the contact between European traders and countries and kingdoms and states in the interior. You wanted to trade with any other groups in West Africa, you needed to go through the Kingdom of Benin to do that if you were a European. And so they became very very powerful, and that's kind of how things went for a couple of centuries. They became really involved in the West African slave trade. They supplied slaves to the Europeans, They traded leopard skins, pepper, ivory, things that were really valued in Europe. They had a lot of stuff that the Europeans wanted, So, like I said, they became powerful. But as industrializations started to really take hold in Europe, particularly in the UK, Great Britain became more and more powerful, and essentially eventually I should say, dominated trade with West Africa and Benin in particular. But they weren't happy with having a monopoly. They wanted to get rid of Benin altogether and just be able to trade with people in the er. Why should they have a middle man, and so they started to kind of antagonize Benin and things just kind of went south from there.

It's a little early, but I think we should take a break because it's such a good cliffhanger.

It's a little early, but I think we should take a break because it's such a good cliffhanger.

Wow, thanks man, all right, we'll be right.

Wow, thanks man, all right, we'll be right.

Back, all right. So when we left off, Great Britain was like, hey, you know what, we don't need this gatekeeper anymore. We don't need a middle man. We want to be able to do what we want in Africa and Central Africa and not go through Benin. So in eighteen ninety seven, in January of that year, they supposedly a peaceful mission, but it was a pretty aggressive, provocative thing that they did. The British Trade mission went in and they were attacked when they're on their way to Benin City, and this really changed everything. There were seven British delegates who died in this attack. I think two hundred and thirty of the African carriers died. But as far as Britain was concerned, is it's on now because seven of us are dead. And that triggered a full scale a retaliatory military assault and expedition on Benin, which of course was no match at all for the British forces at the time. Yeah.

Back, all right. So when we left off, Great Britain was like, hey, you know what, we don't need this gatekeeper anymore. We don't need a middle man. We want to be able to do what we want in Africa and Central Africa and not go through Benin. So in eighteen ninety seven, in January of that year, they supposedly a peaceful mission, but it was a pretty aggressive, provocative thing that they did. The British Trade mission went in and they were attacked when they're on their way to Benin City, and this really changed everything. There were seven British delegates who died in this attack. I think two hundred and thirty of the African carriers died. But as far as Britain was concerned, is it's on now because seven of us are dead. And that triggered a full scale a retaliatory military assault and expedition on Benin, which of course was no match at all for the British forces at the time. Yeah.

No, it was something that Great Britain could point to and just be like, oh, look, we don't have any moral quander anymore. We can go take over Benin now under the guise of revenge. This is called the Punitive expedition. And so they sent in a bunch of a large military contingent and they just occupied Benin, killed off a lot of the chiefs, they exiled the Oba, they pilled and this is really critical, This is kind of the point of this short stuff. They pillaged stuff, they found treasures, they found a Benin and one of the things they pillaged was the Benin bronzes. And in addition to those plaques that we talked about, the Benin bronze, that that term, it's like an umbrella term to describe a whole group of artworks that were created in the Kingdom of Benin from about the at least the fifteenth century up until the nineteenth century, although they seem to have been creating pretty great artworks even before that fifteenth century, like in the medieval era. But this it could be made of ivory, it could be made of brass, it could be made of bronze. All sorts of different media in making jewelry, or making busts, or making altar pieces, or making those plaques, all of those are encompassed by this Benin bronze term. And all of those were pillaged. I think ten thousand pieces of art and cultural artifacts were pillaged during this occupation by the British of Benin.

No, it was something that Great Britain could point to and just be like, oh, look, we don't have any moral quander anymore. We can go take over Benin now under the guise of revenge. This is called the Punitive expedition. And so they sent in a bunch of a large military contingent and they just occupied Benin, killed off a lot of the chiefs, they exiled the Oba, they pilled and this is really critical, This is kind of the point of this short stuff. They pillaged stuff, they found treasures, they found a Benin and one of the things they pillaged was the Benin bronzes. And in addition to those plaques that we talked about, the Benin bronze, that that term, it's like an umbrella term to describe a whole group of artworks that were created in the Kingdom of Benin from about the at least the fifteenth century up until the nineteenth century, although they seem to have been creating pretty great artworks even before that fifteenth century, like in the medieval era. But this it could be made of ivory, it could be made of brass, it could be made of bronze. All sorts of different media in making jewelry, or making busts, or making altar pieces, or making those plaques, all of those are encompassed by this Benin bronze term. And all of those were pillaged. I think ten thousand pieces of art and cultural artifacts were pillaged during this occupation by the British of Benin.

Yeah, and a lot of that went back to the UK. You know, they call that spoils of war, which is a nice way to say things we stole after we invaded a country, and some of it they distributed among some of the people of the expedition, like here, you take this, you take this, I'll be taking this, and they basically remove Benin as that gatekeeper, and all of a sudden, you know, Central Africa was open for all of Europe to trade with, certainly England, and these artifacts ended up you know where they always end up in the hands of nobility, private collections and notably museums, where a lot of this stuff are still in these museums today, right.

Yeah, and a lot of that went back to the UK. You know, they call that spoils of war, which is a nice way to say things we stole after we invaded a country, and some of it they distributed among some of the people of the expedition, like here, you take this, you take this, I'll be taking this, and they basically remove Benin as that gatekeeper, and all of a sudden, you know, Central Africa was open for all of Europe to trade with, certainly England, and these artifacts ended up you know where they always end up in the hands of nobility, private collections and notably museums, where a lot of this stuff are still in these museums today, right.

Yeah, the two largest collections are held by the British Museum and the Ethnographic Museum in Berlin. And even though that that umbrella term Benine bronzes refers to a lot of different artworks, typically you're also really talking about those plaques that show different you know, different Obasa sending to the throne, different you know, moments in benin history. And they're they're considered like a again I think I said, a cultural legacy of humanity. But they're also just treasure. I mean, they're worth Chuck, I saw an estimated one hundred and thirty billion dollars. They are priceless, I guess not priceless. They were the one hundred and thirty billion, but they're incredibly valuable, not just monetarily, but also culturally and historically, and they are outside of Africa. There was a French report by a restitution group that was commissioned by Emanuel Macron in twenty seventeen that estimated that ninety to ninety five percent of Africa's cultural hair is held by major museums outside of Africa because of something called the Scramble for Africa in the late nineteenth century, when all these European powers just invaded Africa and started carving it up and turning it into colonies. They took all the stuff that they liked and sent it back to Europe and it's still in these museums.

Yeah, the two largest collections are held by the British Museum and the Ethnographic Museum in Berlin. And even though that that umbrella term Benine bronzes refers to a lot of different artworks, typically you're also really talking about those plaques that show different you know, different Obasa sending to the throne, different you know, moments in benin history. And they're they're considered like a again I think I said, a cultural legacy of humanity. But they're also just treasure. I mean, they're worth Chuck, I saw an estimated one hundred and thirty billion dollars. They are priceless, I guess not priceless. They were the one hundred and thirty billion, but they're incredibly valuable, not just monetarily, but also culturally and historically, and they are outside of Africa. There was a French report by a restitution group that was commissioned by Emanuel Macron in twenty seventeen that estimated that ninety to ninety five percent of Africa's cultural hair is held by major museums outside of Africa because of something called the Scramble for Africa in the late nineteenth century, when all these European powers just invaded Africa and started carving it up and turning it into colonies. They took all the stuff that they liked and sent it back to Europe and it's still in these museums.

Yeah. But and this is something we've talked about before in some other art podcasts. Part of that twenty seventeen study. The whole point of that was repatriation, was getting this art back into the hands of the countries of origin, these stolen artifacts. And Emmanuel Macron said, you know what, over the next five years, we're gonna return the stuff that we have. Germany got involved the Smithsonian, like individual museums, the Smithsonian and the met all have said like, all right, we need to start, you know, returning these these looted art pieces, especially these were not as spac actually, but for this episode, you know, notably these bronze plaques from Nigeria, and so Nigeria is getting so much stuff back that next year. I don't know if it's still on track, but in twenty twenty five, they are opening the Edo Museum of West African Art because they finally have art again.

Yeah. But and this is something we've talked about before in some other art podcasts. Part of that twenty seventeen study. The whole point of that was repatriation, was getting this art back into the hands of the countries of origin, these stolen artifacts. And Emmanuel Macron said, you know what, over the next five years, we're gonna return the stuff that we have. Germany got involved the Smithsonian, like individual museums, the Smithsonian and the met all have said like, all right, we need to start, you know, returning these these looted art pieces, especially these were not as spac actually, but for this episode, you know, notably these bronze plaques from Nigeria, and so Nigeria is getting so much stuff back that next year. I don't know if it's still on track, but in twenty twenty five, they are opening the Edo Museum of West African Art because they finally have art again.

Yeah, there was a sculptor from Nigeria called a Hanjazo Gleiley, He's a sculptor and said that there's an artistic awakening in Nigeria because of the return of these bronzes.

Yeah, there was a sculptor from Nigeria called a Hanjazo Gleiley, He's a sculptor and said that there's an artistic awakening in Nigeria because of the return of these bronzes.

Yeah. But I think this one in particular comes with a little bit of controversy, right because the the current OBA is that right, Yes, his Royal Majesty Oba Uwaar the second I'm going with ure the second okay, legally speaking as the rightful owner of these bronzes. But in twenty twenty three, Muhammadu Bihari, who is the outgoing president said, you know, any of this looted stuff that comes back to the Oba like belongs to the Oba and the palace of the Oba, and no one can do anything with it unless the Oba says so.

Yeah. But I think this one in particular comes with a little bit of controversy, right because the the current OBA is that right, Yes, his Royal Majesty Oba Uwaar the second I'm going with ure the second okay, legally speaking as the rightful owner of these bronzes. But in twenty twenty three, Muhammadu Bihari, who is the outgoing president said, you know, any of this looted stuff that comes back to the Oba like belongs to the Oba and the palace of the Oba, and no one can do anything with it unless the Oba says so.

Yeah, and if you are in Nigeria and like Benin, it's still it's just a department, like we said, it's a not considered like an independent nation state or even kingdom. I guess it's part of Nigeria. But it's like the Oba has like a government advisory role to the Nigerian government like they're they're viewed legitimately in similar lines to the way the man somebody's gonna kill us for this little bit. But the royal family is in Great Britain. They don't actually rule Great Britain, but they still have they're still consulted on things, they still have some sort of cultural importance as well. That's the impression that I have there. But so the Nigerian president doing that makes total sense in Nigeria, like it was the Kingdom of Benins to begin with, the Kingdom of Benin is still there. Though oh Ba is the leader of the Kingdom of Benina, ancestor or a descendant of these people from whom these plaques were stolen, it makes sense that it's his. But outside of Nigeria, if you're a museum curator, you don't like the sound of that at all.

Yeah, and if you are in Nigeria and like Benin, it's still it's just a department, like we said, it's a not considered like an independent nation state or even kingdom. I guess it's part of Nigeria. But it's like the Oba has like a government advisory role to the Nigerian government like they're they're viewed legitimately in similar lines to the way the man somebody's gonna kill us for this little bit. But the royal family is in Great Britain. They don't actually rule Great Britain, but they still have they're still consulted on things, they still have some sort of cultural importance as well. That's the impression that I have there. But so the Nigerian president doing that makes total sense in Nigeria, like it was the Kingdom of Benins to begin with, the Kingdom of Benin is still there. Though oh Ba is the leader of the Kingdom of Benina, ancestor or a descendant of these people from whom these plaques were stolen, it makes sense that it's his. But outside of Nigeria, if you're a museum curator, you don't like the sound of that at all.

Yeah, I mean, there's definitely been some complaints from these Western museums who are like, you know, I don't know about returning all this stuff and having it just be claimed by the palace, and you know, apparently the museum director there, Philip Ihanako, is how I'm going to pronounce it. Although I have appealing that I might be silent, said, you know what, you don't really get a say in this anymore. Yeah, like you can't loot this stuff over you know, a long period of time and then a expect it to be you know, handled like you want or handled you know, perfectly in a very quick manner.

Yeah, I mean, there's definitely been some complaints from these Western museums who are like, you know, I don't know about returning all this stuff and having it just be claimed by the palace, and you know, apparently the museum director there, Philip Ihanako, is how I'm going to pronounce it. Although I have appealing that I might be silent, said, you know what, you don't really get a say in this anymore. Yeah, like you can't loot this stuff over you know, a long period of time and then a expect it to be you know, handled like you want or handled you know, perfectly in a very quick manner.

And so yeah, the West is like, okay, you know, we agreed, like these are illegitimately taken from Benin, so they need to go back to Benin, and they're just going to have to deal with the fact that this this cultural legacy of humanity is privately owned by one person, the Oba of Benin.

And so yeah, the West is like, okay, you know, we agreed, like these are illegitimately taken from Benin, so they need to go back to Benin, and they're just going to have to deal with the fact that this this cultural legacy of humanity is privately owned by one person, the Oba of Benin.

I mean, is it the complaint that it's not going to be or not necessarily going to be on display.

I mean, is it the complaint that it's not going to be or not necessarily going to be on display.

I don't know, because they built the Museum of West African Art, so I don't know that that's it. I think the idea is in the West, if a museum owns something, it belongs to everybody, and the museums is kind of the keeper of that. They protected the keeper shape. They show you this this stuff, they put it on display. This is like, no, these things belong to the Oba. He can do whatever he wants.

I don't know, because they built the Museum of West African Art, so I don't know that that's it. I think the idea is in the West, if a museum owns something, it belongs to everybody, and the museums is kind of the keeper of that. They protected the keeper shape. They show you this this stuff, they put it on display. This is like, no, these things belong to the Oba. He can do whatever he wants.

Yeah, essentially, Okay, so they're afraid it's just going to be like decorating the bathroom or something.

Yeah, essentially, Okay, so they're afraid it's just going to be like decorating the bathroom or something.

I guess I think so, I'm not sure. I just think that they're a little skittish about the whole thing. And I think the guy who, like Well West needs to butt out of it and just give us our plaques back. It's tough not to. It's tough to discount his thoughts too. Are you got anything else?

I guess I think so, I'm not sure. I just think that they're a little skittish about the whole thing. And I think the guy who, like Well West needs to butt out of it and just give us our plaques back. It's tough not to. It's tough to discount his thoughts too. Are you got anything else?

I got nothing else.

I got nothing else.

If you want to know more about the Benin bronzes, go look them up online. They're really fascinating and beautiful. And since I said that short, stuff's out.

If you want to know more about the Benin bronzes, go look them up online. They're really fascinating and beautiful. And since I said that short, stuff's out.

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