Stuff You Should KnowQ Anon: When Wild Conspiracy Went (sort of) Mainstream
Q Anon believes many things, including that Tom Hanks is a Satan-worshipping, child-eating pedophile. Yeah. We'll just leave our "drop" right here for you to make up your own mind.
Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too, and we're just getting conspiratorial here on Stuff you should know the podcast.
That's right, the episode we wanted to do so much that it sat in our folder for four.
Years I believe it was. Yeah, the very beginning of twenty twenty one, I would say, probably.
Yeah, all right, let's do it.
We are. I gotta say, it's gonna be nice to see that removed from my desktop. It's just been sitting there for so long.
Just staring at you. That que like a big blinky, winky eyeball.
Yes with a one single eyelash attached. So we should probably say at the outset to anybody tuning in that who is like part of the q and No movement? We're going to approach this as if everything the QAnon movement believes is not true or made up, not from the perspective of people who believe in the QAnon movement, although we'll explain a lot of the same stuff. I just don't want anybody to, you know, get five minutes in and be like, what is this, you know.
Yeah, I think that's a fair CoA And yeah, I mean that's just the deal.
Well, yeah, we're taking the anthropological stance.
Okay, Yeah, so let's dive in, shall we.
Well let's give a little bit of a definition for the three people who've never heard of QAnon.
Yeah, and also, what I'm hoping is is that there's a lot of people like me who actually probably I probably knew more about it than some people even, but a lot of people probably just sort of knew a little bit or know a little bit about what this thing was slash is m M, but you know, didn't really know much about it, and it's just good to know about stuff. So hopefully that'll brighten some corners of your life as well.
Yeah, and one thing I kept running into while researching this is that there's a lot of families that have been torn apart, families, friendships, sure, because people will go down the QAnon rabbit hole, and the friends and family that are like, that's not true get left behind because they haven't woken up yet. So yeah, I can really mess things up. So possibly there's some people listening to this who have lost friends or family that might be a little wiser to it might be able to try to get their friend or family member back afterwards. Who knows.
Yeah, And the final CoA I guess is that some of this stuff is so outlandish that it's hard to not laugh.
But it's not funny at all.
It's dangerous and scary and sad. So if I might laugh at something or giggle, it's not that I don't take it seriously. That it's a serious kind of thing that's happened.
Yeah, it kind of like not even kind of. It very much trapes us into the territory of high camp, but is not at all being ironic or campy. It's just just approach this as like everything we're gonna say is believed seriously by people in the QAnon movement. And then sorry, CoA Number five, we're probably going to get a lot wrong. This is an incredibly expansive, ever evolving movement conspiracy theory that you know, we're not We're going to walk right past some stuff where we might misspeak here there, but hopefully the general contours and outlines we're going to we're going to get to be able to get across.
Correctly all right onward.
So this whole thing The q Andon movement is a online conspiracy theory that essentially the world is run by a cabal of global elites, mostly liberals, Hollywood typesment high government officials, and that they do all sorts of nefarious things, which we'll get into in a second. But one of the things to understand about this first is that a lot of it is rooted in some really old existing conspiracy theories, in particular a lot of anti Semitic ones that have been around for centuries. In particular, the blood libel is one that Jews for like a thousand years essentially, maybe longer, have been persecuted, executed, massacred because of rumors that they steal Christian babies and kill them and use their blood to make leaven bread or unleavened bread for Passover, and that stuff gets around and people get all up in arms and scared about their kids being kidnapped, and then the next thing you know, Jewish people are dead because of this blood libel. That's part of it. And although Jewish people are targeted in some quarters, you don't have to be anti Semitic to be a queue not member necessarily, right.
Other things that it echoes from the past are something called the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which was in the nineteenth and twentieth century. Another anti Semitic conspiracy, basically the tired trope that there's a global Jewish cabal kind of running the world, running the banking system, plotting to overthrow the gentile governments of the world. We mentioned Henry Ford and our Henry Ford podcast was a believer in this kind of thing. And versions of this, versions of the Blood Libel have been sort of wrapped up, given a new, brand new shine coat of wax, and was trotted out as QAnon, which is and you know, Dave helped us with this many years ago, and thankfully Dave didn't quit his job and he's still around to help us out more.
But it's a catch all.
This conspiracy that you said is very vast, very wide ranging, but mostly has to do with these power or full liberal elites that are some are pedophiles, some are Satan worshippers. Some they claim literally eat children. And we're talking about the Clintons, of course, and we're talking about Tom Hanks and Oprah Winfrey and George Soros and Ellen DeGeneres and even the Dali Lama.
Yeah, and Pope Francis. So anybody who's even remotely left leaning who holds power in the world, especially in the government or you know, pop culture, they are probably a part of this secret cabal. And it checks all the boxes for pearl clutching. They run the world, They worship Satan, their pedophiles, and their cannibals. Can you think of a worse group of people than that. I can't think of any other thing you could throw at the at the wall to see what would stick. Like, that's as bad as anything gets. So the idea behind QAnon? What else could I've been trying to think? Give me something.
Else, maybe Philadelphia sports fans.
Oh, now we're gonna get some hate mail, man, And.
That's where the hate mail is gonna come from. So I'm just getting brotherly love.
Right, Yeah, and batteries. So the whole thing, though, is that these people who are Satanic, pedophile cannibals, thank you. People new to the podcasts are gonna be like, what's wrong with that one guy?
It's hard to even get that sentence out.
It is thanks man, that they run the world. They run things, and it all happens below the surface. Everything that normies like you and I and probably most of the people listening to this podcast believe is true. Is brainwashed. We've been brainwashed by the mainstream media to be given this line that things are the way they seem, when in reality, things are not at all the way they seem. There's a Satanic worshiping cult running the world, and they're doing all sorts of terrible things. Those of us who don't believe in QAnon just haven't awakened to this idea yet of what's actually reality.
Right, So that's one part. Those are the bad guys. The good guys, or rather the good guy is former president and twenty twenty four candidate Donald Trump, who, according to QAnon and the theory, was picked, handpicked by the leaders of the US military to fight these evil forces, and everything that he does and tries to do is in service of that mission. Anything working against him, even within his own party, as part of the deep state plot, and they are all awaiting what's known or what they call the storm, which is when Trump reveals who he is and what he has done to fight these evil forces, declares martial law, and everyone that has been a part of that secret cabal is rounded up by the military and tried and convicted and killed, at which time that the Great Awakening will occur, in which Trump and the QAnon supporters are a lot of his heroes around the world.
Yeah, and this will bring about the founding of a right wing authoritarian regime that Trump will lead. This is again, this is what they believe is going on. So when Donald Trump became president, for some reason, he had to play along with this great charade that the liberal leftist Satanists were producing, rather than I don't know, just being overt about what his mission was. So that means that since he had to play along, he had to leave little like he had to give little winks and nods and leave what are called bread crumbs, which are little bits of information or little clues that the QAnon community dissects, discusses, argues over. And what that's called is baking. They take the breadcrumbs and they bake it, and when they finally come to some sort of consensus or somebody comes up with the best craziest interpretation of it, that becomes basically the QAnon canon, and that spreads throughout social media, and then the QAnon movement just gets that much more solidified that much more extensive, and because of these tweets on social media, some people say, well, what the heck is everybody talking about, and we'll go look this stuff up and very often fall down the rabbit rabbit hole and become q andon members themselves.
That's right, So are we done?
Yep? That was it. That's everything you need to know about QAnon. Everybody.
Yeah, let's just read six ads and go home.
There's two more things I wanted to add about this global Satanist pedophile cannibal elite that's running the world secretly. They are also suspected by some to be actual lizard people, which is a direct ripoff of the the mini series from the early eighties. And then, secondly, the reason that they sacrifice the kids that they sexually abuse is because they're after they're adrenochrome, which.
Yeah, this is this is pretty fun.
Metabolis. Adrenochrome is metabolized adrenaline. It's oxidized adrenaline, and according to QAnon, it's like the elixir of life. So these Satanists are sacrificing kids to get their adrenochrome and drinking it, and they're they're staying forever young and vital. And there's a few things wrong with this one. It seems to be based on a misinterpretation of what adrenochrome does and where you get it, based on fear and loathing in Las Vegas, because Hunter Thompson has basically a throwaway intimation that the adrenochrome that he does and goes on a crazy trip over it can only be gotten from the adrenal gland of a live human.
Right, that's right, And that is not true. It's synthesized in a lab. You can it's it's available. That is not true at all. So none of that is true.
Okay, so I think we'd laid the foundation pretty well, Like that's essentially the greatest broad strokes of what people in QAnon believe is going on in reality.
That's right. Should we take a break?
I think so.
All right, we'll come back and we'll talk about pizza right after this. All right, we promised talk of pizza. That's because you can't talk about q and on without mentioning a bit of a precursor to QAnon, which was Pizzagate, that is to say, in twenty sixteen, and this is we should say that the first QAnon sort of activity, which are called q andon drops started in twenty seventeen kind of what like October. And this is in twenty sixteen when the Democratic Convention servers were hacked and emails were published on Wiki leaks, and one of them kind of rose to the top, which was an email from John Podesta, who was Hillary Clinton's twenty sixteen campaign chairman, in which he put forth, Hey, there's this pizza place called Comet Ping Pong in the DC area here, and we should hold a fundraiser there. I don't know if he said this in the email, but the fact is that his brother was a regular there and said, hey, this is probably a good place to do that. They got pretty good pizza, they got a bunch of ping pong tables. It's a good place for people to meet up. And that was found in I guess exposed, which is kind of a funny way to say it on four Chan, where people started saying, oh, well, that is the HQ. Basically that's ground zero for where this elite cabal is meeting and they are sacrificing children in the basement of that place. There is no basement to that place, but who cares about that? That was what was put forth on four Chan and hashtag pizzagate started spreading like wildfire.
Surprisingly, yeah, and the fact that there is no basement means, according to like qann thinking, that means that it's hidden. And even if we don't have any proof it's there, because the fact that it's being used by this secret cabal and it's hidden is proof that it's there. Right, That's the kind of circular thinking that keeps these things going, and in Pizzagate in particular with Comet ping Pong, within a month October twenty ninth was the first post about how this is this is one of the home bases of this child sex trafficking that this cabal engaged in October twenty ninth was the first post. By December fourth, a little over a month later, a man so riled up by the idea that Comet ping Pong was a hub of child sex trafficking drove a few hundred miles from North Carolina to DC and showed up with at comment Ping Pong with the AR fifteen and shot up a door to get the door open.
That's right.
He also had a handgun on his side. Nobody was hurt. People got out of there, very quickly. He kind of wandered around the place alone for about twenty minutes. I couldn't get in that door shot it up, told authorities that he was self investigating Hillary Clinton's pedophile.
Ring, and that was that. He went to jail. Is now out of jail.
I think he went for a few years, interestingly sentenced by Kintaji Jackson Brown who now sits on the Supreme Court. Oh really, side note, huh, Yeah, but that was it basically, But you know, that was Pizzagate, and it was a precursor to what would follow in October twenty seventeen when Q first, I guess revealed himself but not really.
Right, Yeah, so I think. Yeah. The first drop was October twentieth seventeen on four Chan, which is an image board which is like you post images and then people comment on them and conversations breakout, and in particular, four Chan was known as like one of the really dark recesses of the Internet. And on this image board a guy named Q Clearance Patriot, and the first post read open your eyes many in our government worship Satan. That was the first Q drop that ever came out. In October twenty seventeen.
That's right. And Q clearance.
You know what QAnon means is Q clearance is a top secret clearance utilized by the Department of Energy, specifically meaning you have access to nuclear the nuclear weapons program. And the anon comes from just a sort of a regular thing that would be people on four Chan who claim to be like part of the FBI, like FBI, non ciaann like whitstler blowing kind of thing. So q anon became the name and claimed to be a intelligence officer, a very high ranking person within the US government who had direct evidence of this satanic pedophile cult and very clear approvable knowledge that Donald Trump was on a secret mission from the US military to reverse all this.
Right, and so between October twenty seventeen and sometime in twenty twenty, the Q drops amounted to I guess more than five thousand, and they were really really cryptic. They were not like, hey, this is going on comet ping Pong is actually a hub of child sex trafficking. They were very cryptic, and so that just lent themselves to be dissected and discussed and thought about and interpreted and misinterpreted. And so there's an example of one from September twenty eighteen. This would be shortly after the whole thing started, and it said panic in dc LL talking equals truth revealed, Tarmac bc LL talking equals truth revealed Comy HRC email case. And it goes on and on and it mentions Hussein, which is how Q always referred to Barack Obama.
Thanks for shortening this, by the way, Yeah.
And it just it keeps going on. But the last line is Faiza brings down the house? When do bird sing? And what the what the focus was on was the at the time, the Hillary Clinton email server scandal that Loretta Lynch was the Attorney General at the time, and she met on a tarmac and in private with yeah, yes, with Bill Clinton on a plane and it was a huge scandal and everybody's like, what were they talking about really and all that. So that's what this Q thing reference. So that was the kind of stuff that they would say, like like using just people's initials, just really cryptic, short staccato statements or questions and like that was it. It would they would just go away, and then people would just go crazy trying to figure out what it meant that's.
Right, and really like get into the deciphering. I think that was part of the oh geez. I don't even know if fun is the word to use, but maybe they were having fun. But part of the whole experience, I guess is the best way to say it, is deciphering these message messages, chatting with each other on what everything means, what these initials are, who everyone is, and just to get that kind of robust conversation going on these dark corners of the web, initially dark corners, and eventually the mainstream social media of the World Wide Web.
Yeah, so, like I said, four chan is considered one of the darker backwaters of the web, and then it moved on to eight chan, which became eight kun or eight kun, and it just kept getting darker and darker and darker the places these Q drops were happening. But then eventually, like I said earlier, people would start tweeting about this stuff, and all of a sudden it spread out from the darker parts of the web to the more mainstream parts of the web, and then the actual mainstream media started reporting on it. So this thing spread far and wide, and the more far and wide its spread, the more believable the whole thing became you know, like you'd see it everywhere and people were talking about it seriously, so it was kind of easy to fall down a rabbit hole the further along this whole thing went, just because there was more and more information to be found down those rabbit holes.
Yeah, And you know, as scary as it is, all of a sudden and you're at home for the pandemic, you have a lot of more time on your hands. You're or maybe you know, lost your job or something which would have been awful, and have more time on your hands, and all of a sudden, you're reading things like you don't know what four chan is or eight chan maybe, or how to get there, And all of a sudden, you see something on Facebook or Instagram or one of the close to seventy million tweets referencing QAnon related hashtags and.
Phrases over a three year period.
All of a sudden, you're thinking like, oh, well, this is this is if I'm seeing on Facebook, which is where I also see pictures of my kid's soccer team.
So that makes it.
Bona fide and believable, which is in itself kind of sad that that's as far as it goes research wise, and people digging into that kind of the truth.
Of the matter. But that's what happened.
Well. People also went to the trouble of essentially compiling books, creating lengthy documentaries all supporting these QAnon theories and explaining them and busting them out, sometimes grabbing actual, verifiable, real world examples and interpreting them differently and putting the whole thing together. And so the fact that there's a documentary on this legitimizes it to a lot of people too, So there was it just became legitimized weirdly in some really weird, questionable ways. And again, all of this, the entire thing was in service to the idea that Donald Trump was secretly fighting this cabal and he would bring about the storm one day and people like Nancy Pelosi would be executed live on TV. And people were really psyched about that idea.
Yeah.
Absolutely, you know, I mentioned the pandemic because that's when the biggest spike and QAnon activity took place. In March of twenty twenty, the Institute for Strategic Dialogue, which is a think tank, did some investigating about just like spikes and activity and stuff, and March of twenty twenty is when it really really took off, of course, when unique Facebook users jumped one hundred and sixty one percent from year over year basically, and Twitter discussion of q and on increased what was at one hundred and thirty nine percent over the month as well, So that's where it started and really got going there.
So when you are on social media and you see there's hashtags like WWG onega where we go one, we go all, but there's a bunch of them. One in particular was kind of hijacked from a legitimate anti child trafficking group. It's hashtag saved the Children. And the reason that it was hijacked was because this is part of the mission of QAnon is to stop sex trafficking of children, right, which is great, but that is one way that a lot of people were kind of innocently brought into the QAnon sphere. They were looking up save the children hashtags because they were concerned about sex trafficking, and they ended up on some tweets or on Facebook accounts of people who are like, now that you're here, let us explain who's actually doing the sex trafficking. It's Nancy Pelosi and Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton, and that's the rabbit hole that they started to fall down through hashtags like that.
Yeah, for sure, And it even got so far as the online retailer Wayfair. I guess one of the rumors that got going on q via QAnon was that if you were cabinet shopping on Wayfair, then that was a secret sort of portal into children shopping. Instead of cabinets, it was actual children. And the other thing we didn't mention about Pizzagate is that when John Podesta and his email was talking about cheese pizza, it was really child pornography. So it's like things like that were getting twisted around and served to a willing audience.
Yeah, that whole thing, like ten thousand dollars cabinets with female names that just got translated into well, Wayfair's a sex trafficking site. And one of the first posts I saw, the person led it with my spidey sense is tingling, and that's how it just took off. Somebody's spidy sense was tingling. There was a weird price for a cabinet and a girl's name, and that's all it took. So that's how that stuff spreads, It's how it takes root and that's just the thinking that people have with Q nine. There's all the clues are everywhere, and nothing is what it seems.
Yeah, for sure.
So we mentioned how presidential candidate Donald Trump was the supposed savior for all this sex trafficking and everything that's going on, and this became clear.
If you ever, you know, saw.
Donald Trump rallies then or now still, I'm sure you would see like Q posters and Q T shirts and Q flags and stuff like that. To be sure, we're not saying that Donald Trump was like, hey, everybody, I am.
That guy, by the way, and.
Literally got involved in this when he was asked though directly over the years, specifically in August of twenty twenty, they asked him point blank, you know, are you courting these QAnon followers? He said he didn't know anything about it, and then quote, I heard that, but I heard that these are people that love our country. I understand they like me very much, and it's gaining a popular larity. When they followed up with a question about him being the savior from child sex traffickers, he you know, that's when I feel like he probably had a choice to directly say, like this is a ludicrous conspiracy. But he said, you know, is that supposed to be a bad thing. If I can help save the world from problems, I'm willing to do it. And the QAnon crowd ate this stuff up and they thought it was, you know, him sort of secretly saying that he is on their side. When he would wear a pink tie, which is a color associated with the movement, they would say, that's him signaling to us another little breadcrumb that he's leaving for us.
Stuff like that.
Yeah. There's also a very famous press conference a speech he did in the White House in twenty seventeen where he used two hands to drink from a bottle of Fiji water and he did it twice during this speech and people like remember that. Yeah, people made fun of him for it, like what's wrong with you? How do you not know how to drink out of a bottle of water? But the qan On support were like, yes, that a breadcrumb. Yes, the q and On supporters are like, yep, Fiji is a huge hub for sex trafficking. It's a destination and a hub, and he's pointing it out to us. He's letting us know he knows what's going on. That's what it was translated to. And that's one of the explanations that a lot of people gave for why it started to take off. Is it came along when Donald Trump was early in his presidency and was getting pummeled from every which way. So this was kind of a way to transform that, to transform the weird awkwardness into this is what's really going on, He's actually sending us signals.
Yeah.
In twenty twenty two, Trump started to sort of openly post q and on theories, where before he danced it around a little more. After he had founded his own social media gathering place, I guess, Truth Social, where he started using q and on words to refer to himself like he was a martyr. He literally reposted a Q draw up. They played a q and on song WWG one WGA at one of his rallies, and.
Over the years.
Between twenty twenty two and twenty twenty four, here's the stat I was looking for. Trump reposted q andon content more than eight hundred times on truth Social, so he definitely amplified the message. I guess we could say in the kindest.
Way, Yeah, I did the math. That's a q andon repost every one point three six days, so that's a lot, and that's a complete turnaround. I read somewhere Chuck that at some of his rallies in twenty nineteen, he was trying to distance himself from q and On so much that there were people who went to his rallies who reported that the Secret Service as they were going through the metal detector was like, turn your shirt on inside out because they were wearing a q Andon shirt. They're like, we don't want to see those at the rallies anymore because it's just such bad there's such a bad name associated with it that Trump didn't even want to be associated with it. But then something happened in twenty twenty two. It's almost like he stopped and actually listened to what they were saying at QAnon and he was like, oh, okay, I really do like that, and he fully embraced it, like you said, yeah.
But here's the thing is, when you're dealing with a false conspiracy like this that's based on the idea of a deep state and secrets, there's no turning it around.
You can't prove it wrong.
Even if he came out and fully denounced it, which he never did.
They would then just say, you know.
That he's got to do that because it's all part of the big secret. So it's one of those sad cases where it's born out of paranoia and untruth such that you can't you can't truthify it, like no amount of truth will get the most ardent believers to think that they're not right.
No, for sure. And one of the things that I saw also that explained it, in addition to like paranoia, anger, that kind of thing, as you kind of hit upon it earlier when you were questioning, like is it fun? And I think it definitely is fun for a lot of people because it's I saw it described as hazardous participatory civics, so like the people in their way are participating in the machinations, the secret machinations of the government. So I think it is thrilling and fun in a lot of ways too. I don't think it's one hundred percent negative or angry or ragy. I think that for people in the q Andon movement there's a lot of positivity to it too. And I think there's one other thing to mention about QAnon people here, Chuck, especially the influencers, they are well aware that their beliefs look totally crazy to people in the mainstream, people like you and me who just believe things are the way they seem they are. But to them, we just haven't woken up to reality yet. So there's not like there's not like just a total loss of perspective and self reflection. It's just been inverted in a way like you're the one that's deluded, not me.
That's right, all right, So I think we should take another break. We'll come back in a second and talk about who this q person might be and stop your emailing because Hazardous Participatory Civics is the best band name that we've ever had. We'll be right back.
So there's a lot of people in the q andon movement who've tried to guess who q is. One of the big candidates was the Trump's first national security advisor, Michael Flynn, Lieutenant General Michael Flynn, and we'll get to him again in a minute. But if you don't believe that QAnon's real, there's some really good candidates for who posted these q andon drops, And crazy enough, it seems to have been two different people, and the second group of people rested control of q andon away from the guy who originally started it.
Yeah, and this story gets a little confusing. Is there a way we can simplify this a little bit?
Yeah? I think I can. You want me to try, well, sure, well, let.
Me set up the players first, and then you can simplify what happened there. What everyone seems to think is that the current Q even though and we'll get to how much Q is around these days at all a little bit later. But the last Q or whatever most recent was a father and son team named James and Ronald Watkins, internet entrepreneurs, Americans living in the Philippines, where they ran owned and ran eight chan, which was that message board that originally hosted.
That Q account.
The other guy that we need to mention here is a guy named Frederick Brennan. He was the original creator of eight chan, but left those boards when it became clear that it was just a home for the worst stuff on the Internet.
Yes, and he turned into the greatest critic and largest source of information about who really is Q because he knew the watkinses.
That's right, And now maybe if you can explain how it was the mantle was unwillingly passed.
Okay, so what people think is that the first guy who actually was Q was a South African man named Paul Ferber who was intensely interested and fascinated by American politics and conspiracy theories. And they think that he's responsible for the first Q drop up to sometime in twenty eighteen, that he was the original Q. The whole thing started on four chan, but very quickly migrated to eight chan because of apparently Q's account got hacked and he had to create a new account, so he moved to the more anonymous, more secure eight chan and started posting there.
That's right, And he started posting on a message board called CBTs Calm before the storm, and he owned that sub board, Paul Ferber did, so that was his sub board.
Yeah, And so that means that he could see who was posting it, could see like their actual metadata, right, So he was the only person who could verify that Q was Q. Same thing when they transferred from four chan to eight chan. He was the only person who could verify that this was actually the same guy, same IP address. So believe me, everybody, it's the same Q. So go ahead, Q essentially is what they were saying. And then all of a sudden, in twenty eighteen, Q Paul Thurber said, hey, q'sq's account got hacked again, everybody, so we're gonna have to start a new account. But then, probably very much to Paul Therber's surprise, Q joined in and said, actually, no, my account hasn't been hacked. Paul Thurber's been compromised. So I'm going to start posting it a new board. This would be a board that Paul Thurber had no authority or administrative duties over, but Jim and Ron Watkins did. So now they were the only ones who could verify he Q was. And so they think that with that transition, and because they had administrative domain over eight chan, they took Q away from Paul Thurber and started posting his Q themselves.
Yeah, and to be clear, this was the second time that account had been hacked. I do want to mention also that the first time it was hacked, they it was found out that the password for Q originally was Matt Block, which I just think is hysterical one of the.
Few laughs were going to get here.
Yeah, but the reason that the Watkinses wanted to sort of wrestle that away was because at some point Thurber started appearing on some right wing conspiracy like YouTube shows and stuff like that YouTube programs, so it was getting out there in a more mainstream way, and the Watkinsons were like, hey, this is you know, we can turn eight chan into a real conspiracy hotbed for the online right wing space, and so they saw an opportunity basically right.
So it gets way more intricate than that. Like Fred Brennan has really gone into great detail to dig up a lot of evidence that all this happened, and we're not going to go into it here, but suffice to say that most people agree that he's probably right about this. That it started out as Paul Ferber and then turned to Ron Watkins, and the whole thing went until about June twenty twenty and then stopped, and those seemed to be the canonical Q drops, and then they picked up again in I think twenty twenty two, and as we'll see, those kind of got ignored because the community had changed so much in those eighteen months without Q dropping Q drops, right, But in the meantime the movement had taken over. I saw it described as it didn't need Q anymore. It had become its own. What was I saw written as the world's first open source cult where anybody could add or subtract, or debate or help create this again ever evolving mythos of what was really going on in the world with Donald Trump at the center of the whole thing. And the problem with that is is that it made it out of the darkest corners of the Internet to the mainstream Internet, to the mainstream media, and then into real life to where it very frequently Yeah, I think you could use the word frequently disturbed individuals who had fallen down the QAnon hole acted out in real life violence. Not just the comet ping pong guy from North Carolina. There's a whole slew of people who have engaged in real world violence because of what they learned about from QAnon.
Yeah, for sure.
There was one case I remember hearing about this when in twenty eighteen, this guy pled guilty to terrorism charges because he got an armored truck and blocked the road crossing the Hoover Dam with two assault rifles and had a sign that said release the OIG report, which was referring to the quote unquote real Mueller report that QAnon believers thought provided basically kind of exposed Hillary Clinton's criminal activities because I mean, there were a lot of people that they targeted, but the Clintons and especially Hillary were obviously because she ran against Donald Trump, but she was kind of squarely in the crosshairs for them.
Yeah, this was at the time people were chanting lock her up, like she was very much in the crosshairs for sure. And Obama still was too. He had just finished being president after all when this whole thing started. One of the most puzzling acts of violence to me in the real world based on QAnon was the assassination of a Gambino mafia boss named Francesco Frankie Boy Cali, and he was killed by a Quanon supporter who believed he was an agent of the deep state, like a high up agent of the deep state. I could not find anything about what that guy's rationalization was for that. But this is the first time since nineteen eighty five, This is a twenty twenty one, I think, the first time since nineteen eighty five that a mafia boss had been assassinated and it was by a QAnon adherent.
Yeah, just really bizarre.
But if anybody knows why that guy killed him because of that, like I would love to hear it.
Yeah.
The other thing that I don't understand or not understand, but I'm really curious about, is whoever Q is Watkinson's or not? Like what was their endgame here? Like did they really and do they really really believe this stuff?
Or is it Are they just bad.
Actors who have a sick I don't know, not sense of humor, but maybe sense of humor to try and start something like this, or was it financially related or do they really believe that it's just that's That's the one thing I wish I could find out that we'll probably never know.
I know, and I don't know, but I suspect that they don't believe it. I mean, if they're posing as Q, I don't I don't think that they actually believe it, you know, well.
Right, because they're not secret government higher ups that really have this information obviously, But I mean, do they really believe Tom Hanks is killing and eating children?
No? I don't. I don't think so. Again, I don't know the people. I don't know enough about him to really definitively say, but just don't know. I don't think that makes.
It even more sad somehow that it is stretched from the darkest reaches in the Internet to literal suburban parents who had too much time on their hands between soccer pickups.
Yeah, there is a really sad, disturbing act of violence based on QAnon that happened in twenty twenty one where a man from California killed both of his children, a baby and a toddler, with a spear gun because he believed that they had gotten reptilian DNA from their mother. Because remember, lizard people are walking among us. So he said that he knew what he was doing was wrong, but it was the only way to save the world. And it was because of QAnon. He murdered his two children because of QAnon. And like Paul Pelosi is another one. He was beaten with a hammer by a guy who was driven by q and on motivation. Like the idea, I'm with you if the idea that these guys were just doing it for lulls and because they were nihilistic or even for money, and that it translated into real world violence like that is just it's abominable for sure.
That's right. Are we done?
No, We've got to give a little bit of an update. Okay, okay, all right, well, I'll start. So there was a really big problem because Trump was always in charge as part of the QAnon mythos. No matter what was going on, Trump was in control, is the way they said it. Well, Trump was obviously supposed to be re elected in twenty twenty, but he wasn't. And so in following with tradition of kind of prophetic cults, the people in QAnon just essentially were like, Okay, well, this is all just part of the act. This is trust in the plan, and they kind of rationalized it in all sorts of ways, and that's kind of part and parcel for what they've been doing. Like the assassination attempt of Trump in Pennsylvania led to a huge crisis initially among QAnon followers because because that clearly demonstrated Trump wasn't in control if he was getting shot at, and some people were like it was stage and other people are like, no, no, no, we got it. This is proof positive that Trump has been anointed by God to bring the storm to overthrow the Satanic cabal, because how else could he have not been shot in the head by the assassin's bullet. And so I saw that some people who kind of left QAnon after Trump didn't get elected, came raging back into it after the assassination attempt, and there were a lot of families that were like, Okay, good my friend or family members back and then oh god, there they go again. After the assassination attempt.
Yeah, I read a really sad article about the guy who came into the pizza place about him getting out of prison and marrying his girlfriend and having a kid, and it was you know, it's just sad, wreckless guy.
Oh yeah, I bet that's the kind of thing that kind of follows you around for life.
Right, Yeah, I would imagine.
One of the other things that happened post election, I believe is Michael Flynn was a luminary. Remember, some people thought he was Q and he was outed as saying privately that he thought the whole thing was total nonsense and that he believed actually it was a CIA psyop to discredit the Right by making them look foolish and gullible. So the whole the community is very much fractured, but it's still very much alive. There was a poll that found that in May of twenty twenty one, fifteen percent of people believed Americans I should say, believed QAnon beliefs in some form or fashion. You would think that it would have gone down since Trump didn't get re elected. In fact, it rose by eight points in twenty twenty three, two years later. So the belief in QAnon just keeps spreading and spreading and spreading and becomes more and more mainstream. And it's even as it does, it gets kind of divorced from QAnon and becomes just what people think about things about reality.
Sorry, I checked out, and I was just thinking in my head, I was just hearing what a wonderful warl by Louis Armstrong, over and over.
That's a good. How am I not surprised that you do a great Louis Armstrong?
Oh he's easy.
I would have guessed you did the izzy Hawaiian guys version.
Oh that's a fun one too.
Or no, he did somewhere over the rainbow. I'm sorry, Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Somewhere over the rainbow.
There's one o the things. Let's leave on a semi positive note, Chuck. A couple of different places, I saw people who were interviewed who had lost a friend or family member or hung on to a friend or family member while they'd fallen down the Q rabbit hole, and the fact that they'd gotten him back, universally was because that person stuck with them, let him know they didn't agree with them, but they loved them nonetheless, and as they put it, provided a soft landing place for the people when they finally were like, this isn't real. I can't believe that I've believed this for so long. Had they were there for them without any kind of judgment or cruelty or I told you so, And that helped allow the people to kind of get back on their feet in a very gentle manner.
Yeah.
And there's a lot of great websites and organizations that have now had to help people through this stuff, and like how do you help your family members and things like that, like you were just talking about. Certainly one place you can start is the Anti Defamation League website, but there are plenty plenty of places to go so you don't just like argue with your family member and tell them they're not using you know, rational thought with stuff like this. You got you gotta you gotta try a different tack there, yep.
Yeah, And there's all sorts of advice all over the internet. So if you want to look go find it, uh, and be careful what you do look for there, be careful of the hashtags you follow. And since I said that, obviously it's time for listener mail.
That's right, a quick not correction, but just enlightening because we've had a bunch of people write in already about our glasses episode because we could not figure out why Livia titled her research four eyes bad.
And this is from just one of them. Is from Marty.
Hey, guys, listen to the episode about glass as great as usual. I've been wearing glasses for over forty years. Regarding the phrase four eyes bad, I believe that as a joke reference to the book Animal Farm by George Orwell. In the book, the animals use the phrase four legs good, two legs bad as they rise against the humans.
That must be it. Love the show, longtime listener.
That is from Marty Mishka from Omaha, Nebraska, parentheses living in the Blue Dot, and I haven't read Animal Farm in so long I completely forgot that, But I bet you are right on the money because that's a very Livia kind of easter egg.
Yeah, that is a deep cut literary wise, So nice work, Libya, and who is that Marty?
That was Marty, But many people have written in and we'll continue.
To Yeah, thanks a lot, Marty, and thanks a lot to everybody who's written in to let us know, help us figure that out. We love that kind of thing. If you want to be somebody like that, you can send us an email too, to stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com.
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