Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Couldn't come up with a jokey nickname. Jerry's here to everybody. Uh, and this is stuff you should know the um that's not a Noith edition. So uh. After researching alligators and looking at a lot of videos of alligators, you're an expert on alligators, I'm an expert. No. Um. I had seen plenty of alligator footage and things, and I never really just sat and really really watched them for long. And once you do that, you cannot help. But just think, what era am I living in here to be watching this weird, crazy looking dinosaur dragon beast walking along? Okay, Like you gotta see him walk, like seeing him swimming around, that's great, But when you see them walking around with their bellies off the ground, it looks crazy. Yeah, especially if you have the theme to the Alfred Hitchcock shows playing alongside of it works really well. They look crazy. It looks like it doesn't look like something that should be walking along on today's Earth. Did you know that the theme from the Alfred Hitchcock show is called The March of the Marionettes. I didn't know that. It is, all right, how does it go? Dude? Do do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do do good evening, do do do do do do do do. It's so nice you can't sing. Have you seen an alligator in real life in the wild? Uh? Yeah, sure. I talked about it at one point when I did my Oky Finoki swamp paddle and we woke up in the morning on our camping pad that they just have stationed periodically along the canoe trail. Well, now we know those things must be at least five ft above the water, right, Well, I tell you, I don't know if it was or not. But now that I've read this that they can jump out of the water that high, I think it's just not something they often do. But you know, we woke up surrounded by alligators growling at us or groaning or whatever they're doing. It's just sort of a are you sure they were alligators and not crocodiles? I'm almost sure, and I have a little bit of statistics to back that up. Um. Even though the Okay finok is not Florida. I think there are about I'm sorry, yeah, it wouldn't have been crocodiles. Um about ten if I'm sorry. Five million American alligators one point to five million in Florida, whereas Florida only has about a hundred crocodiles. I'm sorry, a thousand. Cheez, I get this all wrong. One point two five million alligators in Florida, one thousand crocodiles. And that's the only place on Earth where crocodiles and alligators live in the same place. Yeah, down in the Everglades. Yeah, there's evergladiers just like whatever, man bring it. And it's not nile crocodiles. There's a specific kind of crocodile called the American crocodile, just like there's the American alligator. It just sounds like the the Is that a crocodile or an alligator? I think it's an all like I think it's a gaddile. I remember that poster from the eighties. It said, like, save an alligator, eat a preppy. That's right, what is your tattoo? Say? Oh? Wait, wrong one. It clearly has the rounded snout. We'll get to the difference between them. This is mainly about alligators though, uh as as these like I just called them almost dinosaurs. Yeah, you're you're amazed by that. It came through in the article you put together. Yeah, it's amazing. Or dragons, Like whenever you see the closeup of a dragon, they have that same sort of scale male armoring. Chucky realized that dragons are made up by humans who have probably seen alligators, right exactly. I think we probably talked about that in our Dragons episode. Surely we did. So let's let's talk about gators. Huh. Yeah, we are talking gators and they like I love among them, Like there's one like just outside of my condo and the ponds that we have here, and figured them a lot around here. You just have to like be on your guard, just knowing when you're walking a little moment around not alongside bushes you can't see through and just stuff like that. Don't walk her around a pond. Um, just have to be a little extra smart, and they generally tend to leave you alone. Right, but stick to inner city parking lots exactly. That's the only place she's put her in the car, drive into the city, let her out, and put her back him. So um, like they're fascinating in and of themselves. It never ceases to amaze me to look at an alligator. But um, I've had no idea how amazing they actually are. And one of the things that you put put down there was that they have intensely small brains, like the average alligators many feet long ten nine to eleven feet long probably on average, um often quite longer, but that their brain is only like eight or nine grahams. And then this how Stuff Works article, it says that would take up one half of a tablespoon, So it's a really small brain. And on the one hand, that means that like if you had an alligator as a pet, which is a terrible idea. It's a terrible, terrible idea, like that alligator is never going to come to love you. Or two, there's never going to be a point where you can let your guard down and relax because this alligator is not going to eat The alligator would eat you like the first moment it occurred to it to eat you. Right, Yeah, But they're so they're killing machines in that sense, they're like mindless killing machines. But at the same time, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that they are way smarter than they should be for having a brain the size of half of a table spoon. They can do things like climb chain link fences. Do you ever see a video of that? Terrifying? They can climb trees. Um. They have been shown to be able to figure out how to escape enclosures, like not randomly either, like looking for ways out, and can actually like manipulate manipulate vents and stuff like that. And somebody found that they use tools and that they will put sticks on their snouts, like they'll gather sticks on their snouts and um yeah to uh to attract migratory birds who might be nesting, so that they might come to grab a stick and then the alligator gets them. It's way smarter than you would think for something that has a brain the size of a half of a table spoon. Yeah the uh. Some of this came from the House stu Works article I believe written by House of Works founder Marshall Brain. Oh boy, uh ben a while since I've read one of those. But he called them instinctual living machines, which I think is a great band name. But what he basically means is if an alligator is hungry. It's gonna eat something, period. Like that's all. It's sort of like the description of the great white shark and jaws, Like all it does is swim and eat like an alligator basically just wants to eat and hang around. Uh. They are reptiles members of the Crocodilia order, of which there are twenty three different species, including those crocodiles of different stripes and sizes and caymans, which we're not really going to talk about much in here. The poor cayman never gets any of the it's like, but the Crocodilia as we know it, and that body for has been around for more than a hundred and eighty million years, uh, which you know is you got that big head, you got that big lizard like body, you got those little stubby legs. And when they bring that belly off the ground to walk on them, it looks super greepy. And they got that big long tail that looks like it was just made for for whacking things. Yes, and the tail um keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger as the gator grows. Um, and it might not usually I think tops out at maturity. I think when they reach sexual maturities about the time they they stopped growing. They used to think that they alligator would just grow indefinitely as it aged goldfish. Yeah, but now there's like a top size for it. They realize. Um, but the tail might not keep getting longer, but it can keep getting fatter because that's where the gator stores it's fat. It's fat reserves. Any excess energy gets stored in its tail, which is one of the things that makes gator tail so ridiculously delicious if you're into that kind of thing. Yeah, and you mentioned, Uh, they can grow on average about eleven feet as if they're male five to seven hundred pounds. The ladies are a little shorter. They're about eight feet long and way about half as much. But um, there was one that I had looked up. I think it's still alive. Um, if the Alligator Adventures, Gator Park and Myrtle Beaches, they're at least not advertising that utan has passed away. Yeah, he looked like he was still there based on their website. I think so unless they're just like, don't tell anyone Utan died, and you know, we're just trying to get people in the door. They just have an intern wearing Utan's right. Well, Utan, my friends, was born in nineteen sixty four, and it's just over eighteen feet long and weighs two thousand pounds. And if you want to see something that looks like it, it's c g I from a movie. Just go look at Utan and how big this thing is. And watch the people in the in the cage with Utan feeding at those skinned rabbits. Wow, I mean they're in there in Utan. I guess is the deal is, as long as you're feeding Utan, you can do this show. Uh. And I guess we should go ahead and tell people that, I mean, now is a good time to say that they don't eat that much for as big as they are. It's very surprising how little an alligator needs to eat to survive. Um. They I think they feed this thing a rabbit. You know, it's got to be uh in bite sized chunks. They can't you know, it's not like a python that can swallow these eat these big things whole. Although it did see a video of a python eating an alligator, which was remarkable. It was a small alligator, but it was a big python. You know what I'm saying. I know you, I know I know what you know what I'm laid down? Um, what was I saying though you were saying it bites they like bite size, so they don't need Yeah, they don't need to eat that much compared to their size, and then go a long time without eating because of those fat stores. Right. Um. And when a long time like you're you mean a long time like a week usually in between feedings in the wild, right yeah, but if if if the s is hitting the fan for some reason, alligators can shut it down for a year or two. I know that's like using up a lot of fat up. But they have some skinny little tails. Yeah, probably when they're by the end of a year. But but a week in the wild to One thing I didn't see though, was exactly how much it takes to fill them up, like how much percentage of their body way to the eat, Like is a rabbit enough for a week or is that like once a day kind of thing. It's a daily thing, just because I think they probably try and do a little feeding show every day. Yeah. So Um. One of the things, um, that a lot of people might not realize because they're so often associated with coastal areas, is that alec heres are freshwater. Did you know that I did? Okay, surely there's somebody out there who fits the bill with what I just described there like what like, But they are freshwater. And one of the things about like Florida's, if there's like a something larger than an ephemeral puddle, there's probably an alligator in there. Like they Yes, they'll any body of water. They will inhabit a pond, a lake, a river, a stream, a canal, an irrigation ditch, a drainage ditch, whatever. As long as there's fresh water available, they will um hang out there. And even when it dries up, they'll they'll um dig what are called alligator den's that is basically a burrow back down into the water table, and that when some of these uh like more ephemeral wetlands kind of dry up, the alligator den um might be the only place in the area that has water. And then when the alligator leaves, they're leaving that water behind, that water filled hole behind, and then when that dries up, it provides a burrow for other animals that burrow as well. So there for and that reason, they're considered a keystone species in their ecosystem. It's just about to ask are the keystone. They're so keystone, dude, it's like keystone species. Um, all right, let's take a little break. I'm all worked up and I'm all over the place, So I'll refocus and we'll be back right after this. I want to learn about a terrosorticel, how to take a proprit with all about fractal kiscon. That's a little hun the Lizzie Border murders and they kind of all runs on the plane every day that we should know. Word up, Jerry Stuck, Stuck Stuck. I don't know that you know it. Stuck in this stucks. It's a great name, that's the name of it. It's a great name. Alright, Stuck st with with an X. Okay, so I did mention. By the way, I should just point out since I mentioned Utan's age of fifty seven years old, born in sixty four. That's in captivity. I think they can live a long time, but more like forty years in the wild. Um, so fifty seven is you know, that's really on the highside. Utan is doing quite well in captivity. But I imagine Utanan's towards the in the twilight years. Yeah, I've seen though, Um, like a couple of I saw a couple of articles that said, you know, some alligator was captured based on that and that was estimated to be about a hundred years old. Um, so I don't think it is necessarily like just ridiculously unheard of. But I saw in Smithsonian Zoo I believe they're pretty legit. They said fifty is usually around the average. I think for a wild alligator, probably a lot of that is humans cutting that average down. I would guess, Yeah, we'll talk about poaching in a minute. That's definitely an issue. Um, should we talk about the armor plating? Yes? I think we should. This stuff is cool And what made me kind of think of this to begin with was watching that dumb show I talked about before a Loan Beast where they drop you off and give you a dead animal and no tools. And in the Buyou they gave people alligators and people had to figure out how to cut into this alligator without knives. And you know, they do the same for these for mammals on other episodes, but the alligator was a particular challenge because of this armor plating that they have, which is just really super tough to get into. Yeah. Um, that's called osteoderms or scoots. I prefer osteoderms, don't you. I'm a scooter, okay, Um, But that is that's one reason why it's really hard to kill an alligator especially um, like as far as hunting alligators goes, um, the state of Florida in particular really ties your hands with what you can use um, and it really gives the alligators like a fighting chance and they literally tie your hands. They do. They push you into the water, bunch of gators and say you shouldn't be hunting. Um. So they literally do have that kind of like the bony plates underneath their skin, which does make them pretty tough. Um. But despite being weighed down by what amounts to like plate mail armor, they're surprisingly fast. And we did this, um, we did an episode years and years ago. Do you remember whether whether yeah, in a zigzag pattern And the answer to that is absolutely not. Don't do that because the allegory will probably catch you because it's going to run straight, because it's going to be smarter than you and that uh in that moment. But um, they can top out at about like eleven miles an hour on land. Yeah, and that's you know, if you're just a regular human, you may be able to run that fast at top speed for a little while at your sprint. And you know, alligators are mainly that's there. You know, they don't have a ton of stamina, but they can't get after you really fast. And if you've ever seen a video of them coming out of the water to get something unsuspecting creature on the shore, uh, you know how fast they can be. It did crack me up in this article how they were talking about you know that they don't have much staminaus because the way their respiration works, and like, if you need to just all you have to do is just outrun an alligator for like thirty minutes and they'll tire out, right, And that's three minutes. Yeah, that seems like a lot of that's a lot I would tire out. I know, the alligator just laugh and laugh as it swam away, like sucker. Five more minutes I would have been tired out. But you only made it to twenty five minutes, that's right. So one of the other things is, uh, we said that they're freshwater, right and not salty. It's because they lack of salt gland, which is something things like sharks and shorebirds have their glands that actually excrete excess salt from the body. Um alligators don't have that. That's why they prefer fresh water. But they can hang out in water as long as it's freshwater. And they have a lot of cool add up to atians. Remember their reptiles, they're not amphibians. Their lizards basically that can hang out in the water, which makes them pretty interesting in and of themselves. One of the things that they have are um nictitating membranes over their eyelids, which are just these clear second islands. They have regular eyelids like we do, but underneath those they have ones that come over as like a clear film that cover their eyes so that they can see underwater. Yeah. It's almost like a contact lens goggle hybrid. Yeah and yeah and it and it functions exactly as that they can see really well underwater. And I think they go back to front instead of just the regular top to bottom eyelids that they have. That's pretty neat. And the other cool thing is when they do get underwater, they can they close up all their holes, all their orifices. Uh, they have flaps on the ears. Are you laughing at that? They have flaps that close on their ears and their nostrils. Uh, they have those inner eyelids already closing, and then they have a flap called the palateo valve or palatal valve probably that's what I had in my head, that closes at the back of the throat, and that's going to keep water out of the stomachs and the lung the stomach, like there's more than one, the stomach and the lungs, and so when they dive, there's no water getting in anywhere, and they can stay down there for ten or twenty minutes on a regular dive, or if there is some weird reason, some threat that they have to stay under for a couple of hours and just really rest and chill out, they can do that too. Yeah. And that palatal valve too means that, um, they can open their mouths without water getting into their lungs, which means they can carry their prey underwater. They can bite still and manipulate things using their mouth underwater without drowning, which is a big advantage, as we'll see because we're talking now, Chuck about the alligator diet and here's where it gets gnarly. Yeah, it's the creepiest style of feeding. I think they are lurkers. Yeah, they're not hunters, they're not gathers there lurkers. Yeah. There's sort of like ticks. They wait for something to keep come close enough for them to get it. Basically, they stay very still. They just got those little eyeballs over the water. Maybe they're nostrils if they want to breathe. When you when you notice one that you hadn't noticed before and they're so still, yeah, well that's why when okay pinoki, we heard the growling and I was like, wtf is going on? Because it's not like you look up and there's a bunch of alligators having coffee on top of the water, like you had to look and I was like, oh my god, they're everywhere. It's very chilling, like your your fingers going to your mouth, like, oh my god. Uh. They don't have really sharp teeth though, I mean those teeth look super scary. Their teeth actually aren't even very sharp. They look really gnarly in their mouth, but they're more for crushing, like because they need to be able to break bone and like break a big sea turtle shell. Yeah, they've got some really strong jaws. Their jaws have been shown to be about three to exert about three thousand, three thousand p s I, which I think makes them the sixth strongest bite on earth, and crocodiles have them beat by about eight hundred p s I. Yeah, crocodiles are number one. They have the strongest bite. And for reference, if you're not down with p s I, like you can't, just to me immediately imagine what you're talking about when you hear three thousand p s I. Lions and tigers. Adult lions and tigers typically have bites of around a thousand p s I. So gators and crocodiles are are mucco macho when it comes to bite strength. I guess is how you put it if you were insane. Yeah. At one point in time, we did an episode on the Worst Ways to Die? Is there a Worst way to die? About a hundred years ago, and I don't think this is included, but I would have to put it on the list because when an alligator gets ahold of you, it's goal is to drag you into the water and drown you as you're getting essentially, you know have the most pounds of pressure per square inch put down on your body as your bones and ribs or snack or snacking, they're snapping your most snackid almost gonna that that's what they do. They drown you and crush you basically and close that, you know, close that flap so they're not drowning again. And then eventually they'll they'll tear you up into bite sized chunks because they can't, like I said, they can't um Like I get the feeling when this guy was feeding it the rabbit that was sort of a max size. Yeah, they want, like you said, bite size for gator, and I guess that's about the size of a rabbit. They want bite sized chunks because they swallow everything whole and they just digest it to They digest everything they eat, including bone. Um. But if they happen to catch prey, and we should say here, like yes, that would be a terrible way to die. And if you look at an alligator, you would think they must kill people like every day. Apparently it's vanishingly rare that somebody like you're about fifty six times more likely to die of a hornet wasper beasting um in the United States than you are of an alligator attack UM, and I think they get about one person a year UM and unfortunately that person is usually under age twelve because they basically attack based on size, they size up prey. It is, so it's very unlikely that that would happen, but yes, it would suck terribly. But more likely if you are a deer or like a wart hog or some other like larger animal in Florida that might wander too close to the banks of a um a pond and you're caught by a gator. UM. That gator is going to take you and stash you under a log as you were saying, and is going to just leave you there for a few days a week maybe and basically let you um ripen so that you're it's easier to tear bite size chunks of your rotting flash off from and then they have to bring you up to the surface to to toss you into the air and eat you um because they have to open that palatal valve. Man. There's one other thing about gators eating, we should say, is that they use what's called twist feeding, or more commonly known as the death roll, where they just basically spin on the axis. I'm not sure if that would be yaw control or what, but they spin around lengthwise um in the water and it's weird what they're doing. I thought it was just for drowning um, but actually what they're doing is there. Actually it's like a type of um biomechanical manipulation where they're actually trying to pull you apart the way of just pulling you apart. And there's this video of a dude at some like see life UM, I guess an aquarium or something like that, some demonstration or show where he's showing how he can stick his hand in this this gator's mouth, maybe a crocodile, And of course the alligator crocodile clamps down on his arm um and catches him really well and immediately starts doing a death roll, and you can see the way that guy's arm twists. He had to roll with it. This guy suddenly rolled like he was hoist gracy and was grappling all of a sudden with this alligator. But when he wasn't able to roll as fast, you could see the direction that his arm was going that the alligator crocodile is about to just twist it clean off just from this this um, this twist feeding it was doing. So it's pretty ingenious, clever way to break something into bite size chunks. But that's why they do that death roll is to literally tear you apart so that they can eat you more efficiently. You gotta do with Steve Winwood. You gotta with a baby that's right or in access and be like, never tear us apart. Oh wow, did you have that planned? No? How could I possibly plan that? I don't know? Oh man r I P Michael Hutchins. I know. I thought it was from earlier when I texted you just get ready for the Steve Winwood joke, and then I said, I've got my own l well um. And here's the thing with that, the fresh water like launching off, the from the water to the shore thing is that we've all seen the videos of the animals that are just like, oh, I'd like I have to drink. It presents a real conundrum for mammals or anything really on shore. That's like I've got to get some of that water, like I needed to live. Like you look around you look around your wart hog uh or or have Alina, and you're like, I don't see anything. I don't even see those eyeballs. And you you sneak down to that shore to two ft in front of them, there's an alligator. They're waiting, yep. And then that's it for the Havelina unless he can run away quickly, which as we've seen, that's possible. Oh, that's Havelna's cold truck. And I could see that Havevelina is still continuing to run like a mile after that alligator gave up. Can't you so chuck? Because they are so um, just vicious when they're eating, and that they're eating machines, killing machines in a lot of ways. Like it's it's not really easy for most humans to sympathize with alligators. They they got a bad rap for a very long time, and um people used to kill them especially. I don't know if we said their range goes from about North Carolina down to Texas along the southeastern United States. That's where you're going to find the American alligator. Yeah, and then in China, not for the American, but they have alligators in China. Yes, it's the Chinese alligator. It's much smaller. It goes to about five ft and it is critically endangered. Now you can only find out on the lower yang Z. But now American alligators are doing so well that I saw their starting to show up in Tennessee. Yes, they now there. They have extended their range to include Tennessee, which is nuts because it gets cold in Tennessee. Well, we'll talk about later how they adapted to that. But um, because they are these killing, vicious machines. Some of the early um Europeans who lived in the in the southeastern United States first showed up there. Um they would kill alligators, mostly as like a matter of course, like you see an alligator, you don't want anywhere near your cattle or your livestocks, so you kill the alligator. And that was about that. It wasn't a huge problem for the alligators because there were so many alligators, way more than there are now. Um. But then as more and more people came along and human civilization encroached further and further onto alligators land, there were more and more encounters. There were more and more, um, gruesome discoveries when you called in the cattle from pasture um, and more and more alligators started getting killed. But then it was the French. It was late Francais that really brought about the near extinction of alligators in America. Strangely enough, that's right because French designer said, you know what looks fantastic is a handbag made from alligator or maybe some alligator shoes. And then all of a sudden, in just a hundred years, uh, in Florida they killed an estimated ten million alligators, and by the nineteen fifties, I believe the entire United States only had about a hundred thousand alligators. Yes, dude, that is awfully close to expe Yeah, yeah, especially I mean considering there are five million now. Um. So, Florida outlawed alligator hunting in nineteen sixty two, then federally five years later they did the same thing with its classification as an endangered animal. And uh, in just a few years though, things they came roaring back, literally, because alligators have a sort of a unique breeding such wation and that they recover very quickly because they can lay a lot of eggs. A female alligator lays about thirty to fifty eggs, buries them in rotting vegetation, and they're a little a little bigger than a big chicken egg they're not huge, and that nest is like sort of like a compost ban it provides this heat. And this, to me is one of the facts of the episode is the alligator will be gendered depending on how hot that pile gets. Yeah, and it's real specific to like basically, if it's in the low eighty degrees fahrenheight, it's gonna be girls, right, Yes, If it's in the higher eighties or low nineties, it's going to be boys, little boys. And then if it's in between, it's going to be a mix. Like that's how that's how close the threshold is. Is Like, if it's between eight and ninety, like, that's just the smallest ways in temperature is going to turn one into a boy and turn one into a girl. Yeah, but if you're laying thirty to fifty eggs, I don't know about survival rates, but let's say half of those survive. What's the number? So it depends are you're talking eggs or juveniles, because let me just tell you. Let's start with eggs. Eggs. I don't know. Okay, let's take them. Let's start with taking them both together. How about that eighty percent of alligators do not make it to adulthood. That's still a lot of alligators, that's my point. It is still a lot. Like if you're talking, I saw some um, some middle aged females are able to lay up to ninety eggs in a clutch at once. But so like, that's a lot. But it makes a lot of sense that something like eight percent of eggs and juvenile alligators would be killed because alligators are in addition to being a keystone speacies, they're also an apex predator, which means that they have virtually no predators natural predators themselves, like the occasional anaconda python. Apparently maybe once in a while, like a big panther will get ahold of one and kill it. But for the most part, the um, like an alligator, is not going to be killed by anything other than a human and adult alligator. So the way that alligator's population is naturally controlled is by the faithful raccoon UM who comes along and steals alligator eggs much at its own personal risk UM, and in doing that and then also eating like baby alligators after they've hatched hatchlings, UM, the alligator population is controlled like rather than on the other end, it's on the it's on the beginning end, which I find fascinating. Nature is just gosh darn fascinating. I love it. Yeah, I mean, if you want your mind blown, just look at the video I saw of a leopard swimming through a pond two to tackle an alligator on shore from behind and drag it into the pond. I was like, wait a minute, like my world has turned upside down, isn't I thought it was the other way around. I didn't know these things. I didn't know any cat really enjoyed swimming. And this thing swam through the water and stalked on land this alligator from behind and grabbed it and took it right back in the pond. I was like, what is what world am I living in? As amazing? I can't watch that stuff anymore, though I don't mind, I know what you mean. Like Emily can't and never could. And I was always like, you know, it's just the life cyclists, the world's order, it's nature, and she's like, I know, but I don't care. I don't want to watch it. And I was like, fair enough, so you can't. Now you can't watch it? Have I soapboxed about this? Recently? I don't think so let's hear it. She's like, why, what's what's the problem? What changed? And I said, I had to think about it, and I figured it out. It's not that like what you've just described. I'm generally okay with. I've read a lot of David Pierce, who's this awesome philosopher who's on the end of the world, and he basically says, no, that's suffering still, and we should we should figure out how did program the biosphere so that there's no suffering any longer, so that there isn't that kind of stuff. But if you take all that aside and you do just kind of subscribe to the natural order of things, then I'm fine with that. What I realized I have a problem with is humans training their cameras onto it and almost like purient interest of death, of blood, of of the the end of life, of like viciousness, and that it's like it's that's I don't like that impulse, and I certainly don't like celebrating and putting out on display and people not you, but I mean, like, um, like like the conservationists even who who who make documentaries like that saying like it's just life it's just the natural cycle of things. Um, it's like, no, that's it's it's almost like a form of like like snuff pornography, but with animals. That's kind of how I've come to feel about it. That's why I can't watch it anymore. I don't fault you for I'm just I just I'm affected by it now and I wasn't before. I don't know what changed. Yeah, I hear you, I think, and I'm not defending myself here, but I think like I watch it through a very sort of scientific eye and like I definitely know that though there are people that watch stuff like that where they're like yeah, right, yeah, whereas I'm never like that. I'm always like, oh man, that's terrible, Like I feel so bad for those animals, and like, boy, nature is rough, what I say when I turned the channel. Probably see it every time. Boy nature is rough. But I'm never like I always feel bad and it's always hard to watch. Right. Yeah, I know I'm with you now. I understand like I said, like I was saying, I wasn't calling you or anybody else out. It was more like I had never really thought about why before, and it was definitely new so I figured it was worth sharing. It is very much, and you did talk about that once you can't remember, But well, then we're gonna edit all this out because I don't know. No, no, no, no, we're too young to start having that little of cognitive decline. Do you know that I couldn't add seven and six this morning? I was like, I think it's thirteen, and I was going on with my brain. It was troubling. I guess let's put a button on the breeding and then we'll take a break. But um, mommy is going to protect the nest as best as she can from those raccoons, and then about forty days later, those little hatchlings are gonna make a little noise and then mama's going to dig them out. And then Mama does something unique here, uh in terms of modern reptiles, and that she's gonna stick around and protect protect those little ladies and dudes. Uh if they get into trouble right away for a little while. And that doesn't really happen with modern reptiles. It's usually like you're on your own, here's the world. But Mama alligator is going to protect them for a bit, which is something that certain dinosaur species did, which people say like, hey, there you go, and that's why, as you were saying earlier, like that they had this huge comeback because of their reproductive strategies. Yeah, even of fifty eggs as a lot of gators. Yeah, because they get kind of big. It's like, well, let's take a break and we'll come back and talk a little more about I don't know, Chuck, how about alligators sounds good. I want to learn about a rosortic college, how to take a perfect but with all about fractal getting kiscone, that's a little hun the Lizzie Border murders that they kind of all runs want to play every day that we should know. No word up, Jerry Stuck, stuck, stuck. I don't know that you know it stuck and stuck. It's a great name, that's the name of it. It's a great name. Alright, stuck within with an X. So, Chuck, I told you that I saw that article about how I think it was from the Tennessee Valley Authority basically saying like, yeah, there's alligators here now and they're here to stay. You can probably thank climate change for that. I said that they didn't um I mean it's Tennessee Valley Authority. UM. But that just enjoy nature and steer clear of them if you see them. That was the message. It was like, yes, they're here, now, they're they're not going anywhere, which I thought was pretty interesting. Um, because Tennessee can get pretty cold. It snows like just about every year in Tennessee during the winter. UM. And you think you know of gators, usually is something that live in very hot tropical climates, right, yeah, exactly, the reptiles. They're cold blooded, they need to be warm. Well, they don't actually hibernate, I don't believe, like not technically. They will burrow and hang out, but they're not like in a state of hibernation like you know, we did a whole episode on that. UM. But when it snows, that means that the water can freeze, and if they're in the water, chuck. They actually have a UM strategy for dealing with these freezing temperatures, because, as everyone knows, if a pond freezes, it'sund like the fish all die. Underneath is actually a little warmer under towards the bottom than it is up top. That's why it doesn't freeze all the way through solid um and the fish can hang out there as well. A gator can do the exact same thing. And I think we should just share with the world with their strategy is because it's it's outstanding. Yeah, I think it could be summed up with two words. And this is probably what they yell out when that lake starts to freeze to each other. Nostrils out. That's right, that's kind of it. Yeah, they just think those little snouts up so they can breathe, and then they just let the ice form around them and their little snout. That's it. Have you seen a photo of that. I didn't look that up for some reason. It's pretty amazing. Yeah, I mean it's exactly what you think. It looks like it's a gator snout just barely sticking out of the ice frozen pond. But they're just sitting there in in a you know, they're not sitting there like doing their tax is there anything, Like they're in a very like slow state of metabolism. But again they're not they're not hibernating, and when the pond thaws enough, they'll break free and swim away until the next time there's going to be a freeze and then they'll say, what nostrils out? That's right. Uh. I guess The implication though, is that it's better to be in that frozen lake than on the shore. That's my that's my understanding. Again. I think maybe the water temperature is warmer than the air temperature below the ice. I don't know, I guess because my thing would be like, it takes a while if it's not like water doesn't freeze in an instant, So I would be like, why don't they just get out of the water, But they must stay in there for a reason. Yeah. This is in the day after tomorrow, for Pete's sake, man, that poor Scottish helicopter guy. Goodness so um, so yes, they can live in Tennessee. Now look out Tennessee. Um. One of the other things, Chuck, whether we've kind of talked about is, you know, almost interchangeably talked about crocodiles and alligators, and they're definitely different. Um. And when you look at them, if you know what you're looking for, you can very easily differentiate between an alligator and a crocodile, right, Yeah, I mean my go to would be to look at their teeth and if their mouths are shut. You can see for both of them, you can see those upper teeth pointing downward, but only for a crocodile can you see those bottom teeth pointing up right? They have that toothy grint is how it's put and it really is an appropriate description it is. They're creepier looking, I think because of that. But the the actual shape of this nout is different to the alligators have a wider rounded U shaped now and the crocodiles there's more long and pointed and V shaped, And I think alligators have a wider upper jaw, and then the crocodile have the same upper and lower jaw. That's why you can see those teeth. Man, speaking of crocodile teeth, you know that bird that cleans a crocodile's teeth? Yeah, I think I feel like I remember that. Apparently that is a science nature myth. Oh, that's sad. Supposedly there's no genuine photo documentary evidence of this bird cleaning the crocodile's teeth, and that somehow somewhere a legend of it grew up because that was like an example of symbiosis, right, yes, exactly, but it's fake symbiosis apparently, which is such a bummer. Man, man, I know we got a bus myths. But yeah, well, well don't. I don't want to drag anyone down in the Alligator episode. That's okay, you'll just as usual. Give me the the blue pill. I always forget which pill it is, Yeah, blue pill, the blue Pill. You see that new Matrix document or trailer, No, there's a new one. Uh is it? Is it like the same everybody? I believe it is just Lanta Wakowski, not both the Okowskis as far as the filmmaking goes. But yeah, I mean it's Canu. And I saw what's her name? Oh what was her name? I had the biggest crush on her back then carry Moss, Carrie and Moss. She was great Memento and it looked like a I don't think it's a d aged Larry Fishburn. I think it's just a younger actor that they got. It looks a lot like Neo, not Neo. What was his name? Jerry? Yeah, Laurence Fisherman's character and the Matrix is Jerry, just like our Morpheus. Yeah right, And I think even the lady was the in it. The the oracle. Yeah. Yeah, I think she's even in it. Oh, yeah, it looks pretty good. I don't know. I mean, I'll go see it. Yeah, sure, wouldn't though they burned us with the second third ones. Oh I don't know about that, did they. I didn't definitely wouldn't have seen the third, but I think I saw the second one. They weren't well regarded. Some people will defend them, but they're generally were not regarded. I see, okay, Uh, I guess quickly before we go, we should talk a little bit about the fact that they do have a hunting program in Florida. Now, after saying you can't kill them at all, they have introduced a hunting program where they issue a limited number of hunting permits. I believe you can only capture a couple of them. Uh, and their limits is to size and all that stuff. And I guess this is population control, right, I mean that's what that's what hunters say usually, and apparently it has like helps stabilize the population from basically every account I've seen. I know there was a big outcry because the year after they took him off of the endangered list is when they started the hunting program. Um. But from what I saw, it has kept the population stable. So um. I mean it's been going on for thirty years. And I know, like I said, they tie hunters hands in Florida, not literally you said, no firearms. They you can use what's called a bang stick UM, which basically delivers one um usually a forty four caliber charge bullet to the back of the gader's head. It's basically like a like a spear with a bullet coming out of the end. Um. But that's it as far as like firearms go. You can't use guns or anything like that. You can use fishing fishing rods. Did you see that. Yeah. I also saw a video of a guy that was fishing in a Florida pond and an alligator came up on shore after him and he ran away like filming it. Well, this is like people will fish for gators. They make gator rods and like you know, you can use certain kind of fishing line and hooks to fish for gators. Um. You can also use harpoons. You can use crossbows, bows and arrows. But again these are things. It's like, these gators are tough and it takes a lot to like fish for a gator and then fight it for thirty minutes before you can bring it in. UM. So, you know, I don't advocate hunting in any form, but you know, it sounds like Florida's kind of set it up where there's a um it's it's it's not just like you know, like you can't shoot, uh exactly. Remember Internet hunting maybe the most despicable thing of all time. Yet I know, hats off to you Mack in the day I was assigned that and I was like, I'm not writing this, um, but supposedly there are It's not like that by any stretch, but supposedly a lot of the hunts, like especially if you're an out of stater coming to Florida to hunt an alligator, like a guy Ritchie type, um, and you show up, you very well, maybe hunting a what amounts to a tame alligator from an alligator farm that has no fear of humans because it's been fed hand fed chickens and rabbits its whole life and wants to come toward you. UM, and that you probably you're going to be hunting one of those. And it's perfectly legal, although it's kind of unethical. UM So if you are going to hunt alligators. Again, I don't advocate it. You really need to do your your research and your homework and make sure you're dealing with a legit outfit. Yes, and because poaching in the black market is still a problem since you brought it up, you should never feed alligators. And as a matter of fact, you as a bystander should feel comfortable yelling at somebody who's feeding an alligator. Yeah, it's not something you do for sport. I've seen it's terrible, But I've seen people like drag meet behind their boat just for fun to like tow an alligator along. Um, keep your distance, like you said, don't don't walk your small dogs near ponds or bushes where you can't really see what's going on in there. And uh, if if you do get run at they do, say like you said earlier, to run straight as you can, fast as you can. And if it happens to get ahold of you, you got to fight him like a shark. You gotta hit him, you gotta poke out their eyes, you gotta punch it in the head, go for the palatal valve. I've heard plenty of times. Yeah, Like, do whatever you can because that alligator is going to need to adjust at some point. It's sort of like when you're playing uh, tug of war with your dog, right, you act like you're not paying attention, so the dog readjusts and that's when he yank it. Yeah, that's how you get the dog every time. That's also how you escape with your life from a gator. Dumb dogs. Did you ever see the video of the guy who was walking his cute little dog too close to a pond and the gator got ahold of it. No, no, no, and the guy jumped in and just calmly, almost expertly, like open pride, open the gator's mouth to free his dog. And he was smoking his cigar, had his cigar in his mouth the whole time while he's doing this like he does it like it's part of his and his dog's morning routine. Okay, yeah it was, Okay, it was a little scratched up and I think probably deeply traumatized. But if it lived and I don't even know if it like had to go to the hospital or not, amazing, It is amazing. There's a lot of videos you can check out on alligators if you're board. Yeah, there it's pretty fun to watch. Um, yeah, it is. Uh. If you want to know more about alligators, then go learn more about alligators. There's plenty to learn. Just don't get too close. Since I said don't get too close, it's time for a listener mail. I'm gonna call this gentle ribbing from Louise. Hey, guys, I was listening to the episode on I'm Bombing this morning while I was making my breakfast. When I got to the part about the body's blood being drained out and going into a regular water treatment. It made me laugh. How Josh was so dismayed that they would law blood to go through the same process as poop and b It was almost as if he had never menstruted. This is a very embarrassing email from me. This is at both of us because I certainly didn't say, well, what about menstruation? It was far from my mind too. That's very nice of you to say, but this is really most embarrassing for me. How will take the bullet with you? While I occasionally have some background knowledge or at a perspective on the topic, it is rare that I hear either of you exclaim and wonder over something I've known about since I was twelve, just some gentle ribbings, since you manage to make me feel befriended over the years. Really enjoy your podcasts and all that I learned through your lighthearted and conversational tone during these strict shutdowns at the beginnings of the pandemic. You definitely provided me with a sense of companionship as I listened to you talk to each other while also teaching me. I appreciate the diversity of topics you present in the way you make challenging concepts approachable without being condescending. Keep up the good work, Louise. Louise, that was the sweetest uh gentle ribbing we've ever gotten, so thank you for that. Really pulled it out at the end there, Louise very much, so thanks a lot. Ah. You got anything else? I got nothing else? Okay, Well, if you want to be like Louise and ribb us gently, we always appreciate that kind of thing. You can wrap it up in an email and send it off to do stuff podcasts at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app. Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H