Happy Saturday. Theodora became the sole empress of the Byzantine Empire on January eleventh, ten fifty five. That was nine hundred and seventy years ago today, at least theoretically, depending on calendars, that happened after the death of Emperor Constantine the ninth. Constantine had been married to Theodora's sister Zoe, and they had previously been co empresses. Our episode on Zoe and Theodora is Today's Saturday classic that originally came out on March third, twenty twenty one.

Happy Saturday. Theodora became the sole empress of the Byzantine Empire on January eleventh, ten fifty five. That was nine hundred and seventy years ago today, at least theoretically, depending on calendars, that happened after the death of Emperor Constantine the ninth. Constantine had been married to Theodora's sister Zoe, and they had previously been co empresses. Our episode on Zoe and Theodora is Today's Saturday classic that originally came out on March third, twenty twenty one.

So enjoy.

So enjoy.

Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. So our show has been skewing a little bit more for the nineteenth and twentieth centuries lately, including something we've just recorded that's coming out after this one. So when I picked today's topic, I wanted to just break a little farther out of that, and I have had Byzantine Empresses Zoe and Theodora on my list for ages. They went through a whole series of twists and turns in eleventh century Constantinople, and over the course of almost thirty years. Sometimes Zoe ruled alongside one of her husbands, sometimes she and Theodora ruled together, and then in the end Theodora ruled alone. All of that happened against a backdrop of a lot of distrust and intrigue and possibly some murder. A note on the names before we get started. Pretty much all the English language sources on this use Anglicized rather than Greek names. That's what folks will probably find if they go looking for more information in English on this, including in scholarly work. So for the sake of clarity, even though that's a little weird to me, we're going to stick with that convention rather than trying to translate all the names back into Greek.

Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Frye. So our show has been skewing a little bit more for the nineteenth and twentieth centuries lately, including something we've just recorded that's coming out after this one. So when I picked today's topic, I wanted to just break a little farther out of that, and I have had Byzantine Empresses Zoe and Theodora on my list for ages. They went through a whole series of twists and turns in eleventh century Constantinople, and over the course of almost thirty years. Sometimes Zoe ruled alongside one of her husbands, sometimes she and Theodora ruled together, and then in the end Theodora ruled alone. All of that happened against a backdrop of a lot of distrust and intrigue and possibly some murder. A note on the names before we get started. Pretty much all the English language sources on this use Anglicized rather than Greek names. That's what folks will probably find if they go looking for more information in English on this, including in scholarly work. So for the sake of clarity, even though that's a little weird to me, we're going to stick with that convention rather than trying to translate all the names back into Greek.

Right, and we are also going to give a little bit of context first, both about the available sources for this episode and the imperial dynasty that Zoe and Theodora were part of. There are always challenges when it comes to researching historical figures from this long ago. Documentation obviously is pretty scarce. We have had so many conversations on the show about the oldest surviving records of a person, or even records about them having been written decades or even centuries after the fact, or the oldest surviving written record being a copy of something that was written much earlier, but we don't have the original for comparison because it hasn't survived, so we don't know if that copy is accurate, or how many iterations it may have gone through, or even just editorial flare or interpretation. In some cultures we do have a sense of how history was preserved through an oral tradition, but often there are just a lot of unanswered questions about how later accounts reflect something that happened way before. So Zoe and Theodora come with a slightly different challenge than the one that we are usually talking about, with things from this long ago. The most detailed record of their lives and their rule is the chronographia of Mikhael Pilosh. Silash lived from about ten eighteen to ten eighty two, and he was a writer, a political advisor, and a government official before eventually becoming a monk. His chronicle documents events that he actually lived through and in some cases witnessed. Although it does start with things that happened when he was a baby, and did not have a personal memory of Silash met Zoe and Theodora. Multiple times, Theodora frequently invited him to leave his monastery and come visit her in the palace. Although it was written shortly after the things it documents, the Chronographia is not really a straightforward presentation of people and events. Its writing style is often very poetic and dramatic. In places, it reads like a novel or a memoir. Sometimes Slash describes things that happened behind closed doors with no one there to witness and report on them. His personal opinions are often very apparent, and in places entire paragraphs are about himself instead of his purported subjects. Sometimes he also gives ages and dates that contradict official records of the time.

Right, and we are also going to give a little bit of context first, both about the available sources for this episode and the imperial dynasty that Zoe and Theodora were part of. There are always challenges when it comes to researching historical figures from this long ago. Documentation obviously is pretty scarce. We have had so many conversations on the show about the oldest surviving records of a person, or even records about them having been written decades or even centuries after the fact, or the oldest surviving written record being a copy of something that was written much earlier, but we don't have the original for comparison because it hasn't survived, so we don't know if that copy is accurate, or how many iterations it may have gone through, or even just editorial flare or interpretation. In some cultures we do have a sense of how history was preserved through an oral tradition, but often there are just a lot of unanswered questions about how later accounts reflect something that happened way before. So Zoe and Theodora come with a slightly different challenge than the one that we are usually talking about, with things from this long ago. The most detailed record of their lives and their rule is the chronographia of Mikhael Pilosh. Silash lived from about ten eighteen to ten eighty two, and he was a writer, a political advisor, and a government official before eventually becoming a monk. His chronicle documents events that he actually lived through and in some cases witnessed. Although it does start with things that happened when he was a baby, and did not have a personal memory of Silash met Zoe and Theodora. Multiple times, Theodora frequently invited him to leave his monastery and come visit her in the palace. Although it was written shortly after the things it documents, the Chronographia is not really a straightforward presentation of people and events. Its writing style is often very poetic and dramatic. In places, it reads like a novel or a memoir. Sometimes Slash describes things that happened behind closed doors with no one there to witness and report on them. His personal opinions are often very apparent, and in places entire paragraphs are about himself instead of his purported subjects. Sometimes he also gives ages and dates that contradict official records of the time.

He really has some parts that are just like, I'm going to talk about myself for a minute. Enough about you, how about how I feel about you? So. The Chronographia also follows literary tropes that were common during the Byzantine era. The emperors and empresses or usually described as physically flawlessly beautiful, which was pretty much the standard way to describe royalty, and the depictions of women are often stereotyped. So for example, here is how he describes Zoe after one of her husband's confined her to the women's quarters in the palace under guard.

He really has some parts that are just like, I'm going to talk about myself for a minute. Enough about you, how about how I feel about you? So. The Chronographia also follows literary tropes that were common during the Byzantine era. The emperors and empresses or usually described as physically flawlessly beautiful, which was pretty much the standard way to describe royalty, and the depictions of women are often stereotyped. So for example, here is how he describes Zoe after one of her husband's confined her to the women's quarters in the palace under guard.

Quote.

Quote.

Anyway, she avoided the despicable feminine trait of talkativeness, and there were no emotional outbursts. So it is not entirely clear whether his criticisms of Zoe and Theodora reflect their actual behavior or if they are more drawn from the sexist stereotypes of the day.

Anyway, she avoided the despicable feminine trait of talkativeness, and there were no emotional outbursts. So it is not entirely clear whether his criticisms of Zoe and Theodora reflect their actual behavior or if they are more drawn from the sexist stereotypes of the day.

As we noted at the top of the show, Zoe and Theodora were empresses during the eleventh century in the Byzantine Empire. The Byzantine Empire, also known as the Eastern Roman Empire, was established in the fourth century after Diocletian divided the Roman Empire into Eastern and Western portions, each with its own rulers.

As we noted at the top of the show, Zoe and Theodora were empresses during the eleventh century in the Byzantine Empire. The Byzantine Empire, also known as the Eastern Roman Empire, was established in the fourth century after Diocletian divided the Roman Empire into Eastern and Western portions, each with its own rulers.

Constantine the First became the emperor of the Eastern portion and established Constantinople as its capital. Today it is Istanbul, Turkey, and it was built on the site of the ancient city of Byzantium. The term Byzantine Empire comes from this ancient city, although that term was not coined until around the sixteenth century. People living in this empire did not typically describe it as Byzantine. They only even use the word Byzantium pretty rarely. They generally referred to themselves as Romans, while people in the Western Roman Empire were more likely to refer to them as Greek and to call the empire the Empire of Constantinople or New Rome. So within the field of Byzantine history, there is starting to be some discussion about whether to move away from this terminology and into something that is more accurate. Still in motion, still in motion, like pretty new conversation from I mean, I'm not a Byzantine historian, but as I understand it, this is a pretty new conversation just about the whole field and how to approach it and how to kind of unload some of the Westernized baggage, which like the naming convention of Anglicized names, is also part of So this empire had started to decline by the ninth century, when Emperor Basil the First came to power. This started a new imperial dynasty known as the Macedonian dynasty because Basil had been born to a peasant family in Macedonia. The Byzantine Empire at least in theory was an elective monarchy, but Basil took steps to establish a dynastic line that would be passed down through his descendants for generations. Although this line of succession was interrupted by various usurpations and rifts, the Macedonian dynasty ruled the Empire for almost two hundred years. The Macedonian dynasty is described is ushering in the Byzantine Golden Age, marked by a period of literary and artistic flourishing, as well as an expansion of the empire's territory. And this expansion wasn't just about extending the empire's political influence. It was also about spreading Christianity. The Bulgarians, Serbs, and rus all converted to Christianity during this phase of the Byzantine Empire.

Constantine the First became the emperor of the Eastern portion and established Constantinople as its capital. Today it is Istanbul, Turkey, and it was built on the site of the ancient city of Byzantium. The term Byzantine Empire comes from this ancient city, although that term was not coined until around the sixteenth century. People living in this empire did not typically describe it as Byzantine. They only even use the word Byzantium pretty rarely. They generally referred to themselves as Romans, while people in the Western Roman Empire were more likely to refer to them as Greek and to call the empire the Empire of Constantinople or New Rome. So within the field of Byzantine history, there is starting to be some discussion about whether to move away from this terminology and into something that is more accurate. Still in motion, still in motion, like pretty new conversation from I mean, I'm not a Byzantine historian, but as I understand it, this is a pretty new conversation just about the whole field and how to approach it and how to kind of unload some of the Westernized baggage, which like the naming convention of Anglicized names, is also part of So this empire had started to decline by the ninth century, when Emperor Basil the First came to power. This started a new imperial dynasty known as the Macedonian dynasty because Basil had been born to a peasant family in Macedonia. The Byzantine Empire at least in theory was an elective monarchy, but Basil took steps to establish a dynastic line that would be passed down through his descendants for generations. Although this line of succession was interrupted by various usurpations and rifts, the Macedonian dynasty ruled the Empire for almost two hundred years. The Macedonian dynasty is described is ushering in the Byzantine Golden Age, marked by a period of literary and artistic flourishing, as well as an expansion of the empire's territory. And this expansion wasn't just about extending the empire's political influence. It was also about spreading Christianity. The Bulgarians, Serbs, and rus all converted to Christianity during this phase of the Byzantine Empire.

Zoe and Theodora came to power five generations after Basil the First at the end of this imperial dynasty. They were the daughters of Constantine the eighth and his wife Helena, and nieces of Constantine's brother, Basil the second. Basil and Constantine were sons of the emperor Romanus the Second. They were named co emperors in the year nine sixty. They were both still children then. Depending on which account you are looking at, Basil was either three or five, and his younger brother, Constantine was either a baby or a toddler. Their father was still living when they were named as his successors, but then when Ramanus died in nine sixty three, it kicked off a period of instability. At first, Basil and Constantine's mother, Theofano, acted as their regent, but then she married a general named Nicophorus Phocus. This was one of many apparently unhappy marriages in this story. He was an accomplished general, but deeply unpopular as a ruler. He was ultimately assassinated in nine sixty nine, and Theofano was implicated in his death, along with another general, John Simisk's. John Simiskis took the throne and banished Theofano to a monastery. He then reigned until his death in nine seventy six.

Zoe and Theodora came to power five generations after Basil the First at the end of this imperial dynasty. They were the daughters of Constantine the eighth and his wife Helena, and nieces of Constantine's brother, Basil the second. Basil and Constantine were sons of the emperor Romanus the Second. They were named co emperors in the year nine sixty. They were both still children then. Depending on which account you are looking at, Basil was either three or five, and his younger brother, Constantine was either a baby or a toddler. Their father was still living when they were named as his successors, but then when Ramanus died in nine sixty three, it kicked off a period of instability. At first, Basil and Constantine's mother, Theofano, acted as their regent, but then she married a general named Nicophorus Phocus. This was one of many apparently unhappy marriages in this story. He was an accomplished general, but deeply unpopular as a ruler. He was ultimately assassinated in nine sixty nine, and Theofano was implicated in his death, along with another general, John Simisk's. John Simiskis took the throne and banished Theofano to a monastery. He then reigned until his death in nine seventy six.

Although Basil the Second and Constantine the eighth technically came into power as co emperors, at that point, Basil was seen as the far better choice to lead. He was described as thoughtful and intelligent, while his brother was more interested in maintaining a life of luxury than actually ruling. As we said earlier, Basil was the older of the two, and even so he was just barely considered to be an adult. So all the parties involved generally agreed that Basil would take the lead and his brother Constantine would be co emperor pretty much in name only.

Although Basil the Second and Constantine the eighth technically came into power as co emperors, at that point, Basil was seen as the far better choice to lead. He was described as thoughtful and intelligent, while his brother was more interested in maintaining a life of luxury than actually ruling. As we said earlier, Basil was the older of the two, and even so he was just barely considered to be an adult. So all the parties involved generally agreed that Basil would take the lead and his brother Constantine would be co emperor pretty much in name only.

As emperor, Basil faced a series of revolts launched by other claimants to the throne, some of whom were close enough to the Macedonian dynastic line that they might have been able to gain some acceptance if they actually succeeded. It wasn't until nine eighty nine, thirteen years after coming to power, that Basil's forces defeated the last of them. This Byzantine victory came with the aid of Vladimir, the Great Grand Prince of Kiev, so itccounts.

As emperor, Basil faced a series of revolts launched by other claimants to the throne, some of whom were close enough to the Macedonian dynastic line that they might have been able to gain some acceptance if they actually succeeded. It wasn't until nine eighty nine, thirteen years after coming to power, that Basil's forces defeated the last of them. This Byzantine victory came with the aid of Vladimir, the Great Grand Prince of Kiev, so itccounts.

Very somewhat in their details on this, but it was all connected to a political and religious agreement in which Vladimir married Basil and Constantine's sister Anna, and as part of the marriage negotiations, also agreed to convert to Christianity. We also have an episode of this in the art, but if you go check it out, be aware that most of this region was described at the time as Russia, but today it's Ukraine.

Very somewhat in their details on this, but it was all connected to a political and religious agreement in which Vladimir married Basil and Constantine's sister Anna, and as part of the marriage negotiations, also agreed to convert to Christianity. We also have an episode of this in the art, but if you go check it out, be aware that most of this region was described at the time as Russia, but today it's Ukraine.

During his fifty year reign, Basil implemented land reforms, forcing wealthy families to return land that had been seized from the peasantry. Of the course of decades, he expanded the Byzantine Empire's territory and consolidated its influence in territory that had already held. He was nicknamed Basil the Bulgar Slayer after his conquest of Bulgaria.

During his fifty year reign, Basil implemented land reforms, forcing wealthy families to return land that had been seized from the peasantry. Of the course of decades, he expanded the Byzantine Empire's territory and consolidated its influence in territory that had already held. He was nicknamed Basil the Bulgar Slayer after his conquest of Bulgaria.

Basil also hoped to form an alliance with the Holy Roman Empire, which at the time encompassed a lot of central Europe and what's now northern Italy. And that is where we finally get back to Zoe, so we will turn our attention to her after a quick sponsor break. We have only mentioned two of them so far, but Byzantine Emperor Constantine the eighth and his wife Helena had three daughters. The oldest, Eudokia, had become a nun. According to Psilash, this was because she had been scarred by an illness. That illness was probably smallpox. The middle daughter, Zoe, was born around nine seventy eight, and the youngest, Theodora, was born around nine eighty one. Zoe and Theodora were both known by the honorific Porfirogenita, or born in the Purple, which was used for the daughters of emperors born during their reign. Emperor's sons had the corresponding title of Porphyrogenitus.

Basil also hoped to form an alliance with the Holy Roman Empire, which at the time encompassed a lot of central Europe and what's now northern Italy. And that is where we finally get back to Zoe, so we will turn our attention to her after a quick sponsor break. We have only mentioned two of them so far, but Byzantine Emperor Constantine the eighth and his wife Helena had three daughters. The oldest, Eudokia, had become a nun. According to Psilash, this was because she had been scarred by an illness. That illness was probably smallpox. The middle daughter, Zoe, was born around nine seventy eight, and the youngest, Theodora, was born around nine eighty one. Zoe and Theodora were both known by the honorific Porfirogenita, or born in the Purple, which was used for the daughters of emperors born during their reign. Emperor's sons had the corresponding title of Porphyrogenitus.

Basil the second's plan to create an alliance between the Eastern Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire involved a marriage between his niece Zoe and Holy Roman Emperor Auto the third. This arrangement was made in the year one thousand and one, so Zoe would have been about twenty three. She was described as being exceptionally beautiful, although, as we noted earlier, Byzantine royalty were generally all was described this way. But the alliance would have brought together two massive political powers. But when Zoe arrived in Bari in southern Italy to be married, having sailed there from Constantinople, it turned out that Otto had died suddenly of a fever at the age of only twenty one. Had he survived, though this probably would have been a tumultuous marriage, Otto actually died after fleeing a rebellion and losing control of the imperial city. Zoe returned to Constantinople, and she largely disappeared from the historical record until Basil the Second's death in ten twenty five. Over the course of his reign, Basil had become more and more sober and reserved, and in his last years he was described as having an almost monk like austerity. He had never married, so his brother Zoe and Theodora's father, Constantine the eighth, followed him on the throne. Although Constantine had the three daughters that we already mentioned, he a Soo had no male heir. He became ill in ten twenty eight at the age of seventy, and on his deathbed he appointed his relative Romanos Argyris, who was the eparch of the city of Constantinople, to be his successor, and he also arranged a marriage between Romanos and Zoe. Although Romanos was a relative, he wasn't within the Macedonian line of succession, so according to silash In Romanos's mind, this was the start of a new ruling dynasty. He would be its founder and it would carry on through his descendants. If that was the case, though there was a big flaw in his plan. Zoe was fifty, making it sort of unlikely that he was going to be able to father any children with her. Silash describes the couple trying all kinds of fertility treatments and charms in an attempt to conceive an air. This really seems to have driven a wedge between Zoe and her husband. Each of them took lovers.

Basil the second's plan to create an alliance between the Eastern Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire involved a marriage between his niece Zoe and Holy Roman Emperor Auto the third. This arrangement was made in the year one thousand and one, so Zoe would have been about twenty three. She was described as being exceptionally beautiful, although, as we noted earlier, Byzantine royalty were generally all was described this way. But the alliance would have brought together two massive political powers. But when Zoe arrived in Bari in southern Italy to be married, having sailed there from Constantinople, it turned out that Otto had died suddenly of a fever at the age of only twenty one. Had he survived, though this probably would have been a tumultuous marriage, Otto actually died after fleeing a rebellion and losing control of the imperial city. Zoe returned to Constantinople, and she largely disappeared from the historical record until Basil the Second's death in ten twenty five. Over the course of his reign, Basil had become more and more sober and reserved, and in his last years he was described as having an almost monk like austerity. He had never married, so his brother Zoe and Theodora's father, Constantine the eighth, followed him on the throne. Although Constantine had the three daughters that we already mentioned, he a Soo had no male heir. He became ill in ten twenty eight at the age of seventy, and on his deathbed he appointed his relative Romanos Argyris, who was the eparch of the city of Constantinople, to be his successor, and he also arranged a marriage between Romanos and Zoe. Although Romanos was a relative, he wasn't within the Macedonian line of succession, so according to silash In Romanos's mind, this was the start of a new ruling dynasty. He would be its founder and it would carry on through his descendants. If that was the case, though there was a big flaw in his plan. Zoe was fifty, making it sort of unlikely that he was going to be able to father any children with her. Silash describes the couple trying all kinds of fertility treatments and charms in an attempt to conceive an air. This really seems to have driven a wedge between Zoe and her husband. Each of them took lovers.

Romanus also cut Zoe off from the royal treasury and put her on a strict allowance, which infuriated her. In some accounts, Zoe also became really jealous of her sister, who had at one point been considered as Romanos's bride, and other accounts her advisors were the ones who suggested that her sister might be a threat to her. Either way, Theodora was confined to the women's quarters in the palace and then eventually sent to a monastery, and some accounts Zoe also cut her sister's hair into a tonsure. Silash also describes Romanos as an ineffective ruler, overconfident in his knowledge of both letters and military tactics, and this led him to make all kinds of strategic blenders that he tried to pay for by raising taxes. But then he also spent a lot of money trying to build churches and monasteries. Unlike Basil the Second, he didn't get in the way of big landowners, once again trying to take over land from the peasantry, which pushed the empire toward a more feudal existence. The Byzantine army, commanded by Romanos himself, suffered a humiliating and expensive defeat at the Battle of Azzaz in ten thirty. Zoe's lover during all of this was Michael, brother of John the Orfanotrophus, who had been a prominent eunuch in the court of Basil's second. Michael was in his twenties and Zoe was in her fifties, and Romanos seems to have known about this relationship but pretty much ignored it, possibly because he thought that trying to put a stop to it would just lead Zoe to take other lovers instead. Michael also had epilepsy, and the Cronographia describes Romanos as feeling sorry for him ignoring. This relationship did not work out for Romanos, though multiple accounts either suggest or flat out state that Zoe and Michael conspired to slowly poison him. Then in ten thirty four, he either drowned or was drowned in his bath while preparing for the next day's Good Friday observances. Silash has a riveting account of his body servants holding him under the water.

Romanus also cut Zoe off from the royal treasury and put her on a strict allowance, which infuriated her. In some accounts, Zoe also became really jealous of her sister, who had at one point been considered as Romanos's bride, and other accounts her advisors were the ones who suggested that her sister might be a threat to her. Either way, Theodora was confined to the women's quarters in the palace and then eventually sent to a monastery, and some accounts Zoe also cut her sister's hair into a tonsure. Silash also describes Romanos as an ineffective ruler, overconfident in his knowledge of both letters and military tactics, and this led him to make all kinds of strategic blenders that he tried to pay for by raising taxes. But then he also spent a lot of money trying to build churches and monasteries. Unlike Basil the Second, he didn't get in the way of big landowners, once again trying to take over land from the peasantry, which pushed the empire toward a more feudal existence. The Byzantine army, commanded by Romanos himself, suffered a humiliating and expensive defeat at the Battle of Azzaz in ten thirty. Zoe's lover during all of this was Michael, brother of John the Orfanotrophus, who had been a prominent eunuch in the court of Basil's second. Michael was in his twenties and Zoe was in her fifties, and Romanos seems to have known about this relationship but pretty much ignored it, possibly because he thought that trying to put a stop to it would just lead Zoe to take other lovers instead. Michael also had epilepsy, and the Cronographia describes Romanos as feeling sorry for him ignoring. This relationship did not work out for Romanos, though multiple accounts either suggest or flat out state that Zoe and Michael conspired to slowly poison him. Then in ten thirty four, he either drowned or was drowned in his bath while preparing for the next day's Good Friday observances. Silash has a riveting account of his body servants holding him under the water.

Nice that we don't know actually happened.

Nice that we don't know actually happened.

Yeah, Zoe put her influence as empress to work to marry her lover Michael and place him on the imperial throne. But just like her late husband's decision to ignore that affair had not really worked out for him, Zoe's efforts to establish Michael as emperor, Michael the fourth did not work out for her. He seems to have concluded that a woman who would allegedly conspire with her lover to poison her husband might get a new lover and do that again. So he confined Zoe to the women's quarters and dismissed all of her loyal eunuchs and ladies in waiting, and then replaced them all with people of his own. Choosing Michael the fourth was not particularly popular As an emperor. He raised taxes and required that they paid in currency, which was a change and a hardship for people who had access to goods but not money. This led to an uprising in ten forty and that fed into a revolt by the Bulgar people against Byzantine rule in general, with the rebels taking over multiple cities in laying siege to Thessalonica. During all of this, Michael had recurring and sometimes serious illnesses. It's not clear whether this was a complication of his epilepsy or something else. His brother, John the Orfino Trophos, convinced him to name their sister's son, who was also named Michael, just to confuse things as Caesar or co emperor, to help take some of the pressure off of.

Yeah, Zoe put her influence as empress to work to marry her lover Michael and place him on the imperial throne. But just like her late husband's decision to ignore that affair had not really worked out for him, Zoe's efforts to establish Michael as emperor, Michael the fourth did not work out for her. He seems to have concluded that a woman who would allegedly conspire with her lover to poison her husband might get a new lover and do that again. So he confined Zoe to the women's quarters and dismissed all of her loyal eunuchs and ladies in waiting, and then replaced them all with people of his own. Choosing Michael the fourth was not particularly popular As an emperor. He raised taxes and required that they paid in currency, which was a change and a hardship for people who had access to goods but not money. This led to an uprising in ten forty and that fed into a revolt by the Bulgar people against Byzantine rule in general, with the rebels taking over multiple cities in laying siege to Thessalonica. During all of this, Michael had recurring and sometimes serious illnesses. It's not clear whether this was a complication of his epilepsy or something else. His brother, John the Orfino Trophos, convinced him to name their sister's son, who was also named Michael, just to confuse things as Caesar or co emperor, to help take some of the pressure off of.

Him, So two Michaels at this point ruling at least in name. Yes.

Him, So two Michaels at this point ruling at least in name. Yes.

One of the things that was a little frustrating about this episode is how many of the same names were used by different people, not just spread apart, but like within a couple of generations, So like there's a lot of having to crosscheck. Was this the same theo Fano, Yes, different Michael No, no, no. But there were some barriers to the younger Michael getting any kind of support in this plan. Although his mother was the sister of both the Emperor Michael four and John the Orfana Trophos, he was of common birth. His father was a Cauker. To try to give the younger Michael a clearer connection to the imperial throne, John suggested that Zoe adopt him as her son. This would bolster his legitimacy as caesar, both because of his adopted mother being the Empress and because at this point she was pretty popular. She was an emperor's daughter, born in the Purple and the niece of another emperor, and she was also generous with the royal treasury, at least when the Emperor let her have access to it. The elder Michael became seriously ill in ten forty one, and between that illness and his military failures, he rapidly lost support. He tried to hang on to the throne for as long as he could, including planning military expeditions to Bulgaria. That was something that his physicians and advisers suspected that he just wouldn't not survive. Ultimately, he was either forced off the throne or chose to retire to a monastery. John the Orfino Trophos was imprisoned and then later blinded.

One of the things that was a little frustrating about this episode is how many of the same names were used by different people, not just spread apart, but like within a couple of generations, So like there's a lot of having to crosscheck. Was this the same theo Fano, Yes, different Michael No, no, no. But there were some barriers to the younger Michael getting any kind of support in this plan. Although his mother was the sister of both the Emperor Michael four and John the Orfana Trophos, he was of common birth. His father was a Cauker. To try to give the younger Michael a clearer connection to the imperial throne, John suggested that Zoe adopt him as her son. This would bolster his legitimacy as caesar, both because of his adopted mother being the Empress and because at this point she was pretty popular. She was an emperor's daughter, born in the Purple and the niece of another emperor, and she was also generous with the royal treasury, at least when the Emperor let her have access to it. The elder Michael became seriously ill in ten forty one, and between that illness and his military failures, he rapidly lost support. He tried to hang on to the throne for as long as he could, including planning military expeditions to Bulgaria. That was something that his physicians and advisers suspected that he just wouldn't not survive. Ultimately, he was either forced off the throne or chose to retire to a monastery. John the Orfino Trophos was imprisoned and then later blinded.

So Michael's nephew Michael, followed him as emperor, becoming Michael the Fifth. And if you're thinking right about now. Hey, it seems like there's a pattern here, and he's probably not going to act very grateful for Zoe's help in getting him on the throne. Spoiler alert, You're exactly right, and we're going to talk about that after a sponsor break.

So Michael's nephew Michael, followed him as emperor, becoming Michael the Fifth. And if you're thinking right about now. Hey, it seems like there's a pattern here, and he's probably not going to act very grateful for Zoe's help in getting him on the throne. Spoiler alert, You're exactly right, and we're going to talk about that after a sponsor break.

Even though Michael the Fifth's acceptance as emperor was really only possible thanks to Zoe agreeing to adopt him and publicly supporting him, once he was on the throne, he banished her to a monastery and started spreading rumors that she had been plotting to kill him. And although there are some source that conclude that Zoe really was involved in the poisoning of her first husband, Romano so or at least that it was possible that she had been, they also generally agree that this whole accusation by you know, the younger Michael, now Michael the fifth, like that was just baseless.

Even though Michael the Fifth's acceptance as emperor was really only possible thanks to Zoe agreeing to adopt him and publicly supporting him, once he was on the throne, he banished her to a monastery and started spreading rumors that she had been plotting to kill him. And although there are some source that conclude that Zoe really was involved in the poisoning of her first husband, Romano so or at least that it was possible that she had been, they also generally agree that this whole accusation by you know, the younger Michael, now Michael the fifth, like that was just baseless.

As word spread about Zoe's treatment, the people of Constantinople were outraged. In the words of slosh Quote, the indignation, in fact was universal, and all were ready to lay down their lives for Zoe. Michael's father, being of common birth made the whole thing particularly insulting. Quote. How was it this low born fellow dared to raise a hand against a woman of such lineage.

As word spread about Zoe's treatment, the people of Constantinople were outraged. In the words of slosh Quote, the indignation, in fact was universal, and all were ready to lay down their lives for Zoe. Michael's father, being of common birth made the whole thing particularly insulting. Quote. How was it this low born fellow dared to raise a hand against a woman of such lineage.

When people learned that Zoe had been banished to a monastery, an armed mob attacked the palace and started tearing down royal buildings. Zoe was retrieved from the monastery to give a public appearance alongside Michael the Fifth, still dressed in her nun's habit, but this did not appease the mob. They did not want Zoe the nun. They wanted Zoe the Empress.

When people learned that Zoe had been banished to a monastery, an armed mob attacked the palace and started tearing down royal buildings. Zoe was retrieved from the monastery to give a public appearance alongside Michael the Fifth, still dressed in her nun's habit, but this did not appease the mob. They did not want Zoe the nun. They wanted Zoe the Empress.

Also, the people of Constantinople had not forgotten about Zoe's sister, Theodora, who had spent at least the previous ten years in a monastery. When they couldn't restore Zoe to the throne, they went to Theodora's monastery, brought her out of it, and proclaimed her to be the empress. This did not settle all the unrest, though, and in April of ten forty two, Emperor Michael the fifth fled the palace. According to the Chronographia, his relationship with his uncles had become increasingly contentious, and he'd had all of them castrated, with the exception of his uncle Constantine, who he had promoted to Noblissimus, and in the wake of the mob's attack on the palace, both Michael the fifth and his uncle Constantine were exiled and blinded. And with that there were two empresses, Zoe and Theodora, both of whom had popular support, even though a lot of people didn't think it was quite proper for a woman to be empress without a husband. The empresses dismissed everyone who had been involved with Zoe's banishment, and they kept the people they thought were loyal, but otherwise they did not appoint new counselors for a while. Here's how the Chronographia describes them. Quote the elder Zoe was the quicker to understand ideas, but slower to give them utterance. With Theodora, on the other hand.

Also, the people of Constantinople had not forgotten about Zoe's sister, Theodora, who had spent at least the previous ten years in a monastery. When they couldn't restore Zoe to the throne, they went to Theodora's monastery, brought her out of it, and proclaimed her to be the empress. This did not settle all the unrest, though, and in April of ten forty two, Emperor Michael the fifth fled the palace. According to the Chronographia, his relationship with his uncles had become increasingly contentious, and he'd had all of them castrated, with the exception of his uncle Constantine, who he had promoted to Noblissimus, and in the wake of the mob's attack on the palace, both Michael the fifth and his uncle Constantine were exiled and blinded. And with that there were two empresses, Zoe and Theodora, both of whom had popular support, even though a lot of people didn't think it was quite proper for a woman to be empress without a husband. The empresses dismissed everyone who had been involved with Zoe's banishment, and they kept the people they thought were loyal, but otherwise they did not appoint new counselors for a while. Here's how the Chronographia describes them. Quote the elder Zoe was the quicker to understand ideas, but slower to give them utterance. With Theodora, on the other hand.

It was just the reverse in both respects, for she did not readily show her innermost thoughts, but once she had embarked on a conversation, she would chatter away with an expert and lively tongue. Zoe was a woman of passionate interests, prepared with equal enthusiasm for both alternatives death or life. I mean in that she reminded me of sea waves now lifting a ship high and then plunging it down to the depths. Such characteristics were certainly not found in Theodora. In fact, she had a calm disposition, and in one way, if I may put it so, so a dull one. Zoe was open handed, the sort of woman who could exhaust a sea teeming with gold dust in one day. The other counted her staters when she gave away money, partly, no doubt, because her limited resources forbade any reckless spending, and partly because inherently she was more self controlled in this manner.

It was just the reverse in both respects, for she did not readily show her innermost thoughts, but once she had embarked on a conversation, she would chatter away with an expert and lively tongue. Zoe was a woman of passionate interests, prepared with equal enthusiasm for both alternatives death or life. I mean in that she reminded me of sea waves now lifting a ship high and then plunging it down to the depths. Such characteristics were certainly not found in Theodora. In fact, she had a calm disposition, and in one way, if I may put it so, so a dull one. Zoe was open handed, the sort of woman who could exhaust a sea teeming with gold dust in one day. The other counted her staters when she gave away money, partly, no doubt, because her limited resources forbade any reckless spending, and partly because inherently she was more self controlled in this manner.

I can't help but think about Zoe and her perfumes also being associated with poisons. He also described Zoe as very pious and not enjoying the typically feminine tasks like spinning and working on a loom, but really enjoying again that thing that I just referenced, making perfumes and having a laboratory set up in her rooms for that purpose.

I can't help but think about Zoe and her perfumes also being associated with poisons. He also described Zoe as very pious and not enjoying the typically feminine tasks like spinning and working on a loom, but really enjoying again that thing that I just referenced, making perfumes and having a laboratory set up in her rooms for that purpose.

When it comes to talking about their leadership, though, so Lash is not quite as flattering. I mean, I would call that earlier thing that I read kind of flattering but also sometimes a little tempered. But when it came to talking about their rule, he wrote quote to put it quite candidly, for my present purpose is not to compose a eulogy, but to write an accurate history. Neither of them was fitted by temperament to govern. They neither knew how to administer, nor were they capable of serious argument on the subject of politics. For the most part, they confused the trifles of the harem with important matters of state. Even the very trait of the elder sister, which is commended among many folk today, namely her ungrudging liberality, dispensed very widely over a long period of time. Even this trait, although it was no doubt satisfactory to those who enjoyed it because of the benefits they received from her, was after all the sole cause, in the first place, of the universal corruption and of the reduction of Roman fortunes to their lowest ebb.

When it comes to talking about their leadership, though, so Lash is not quite as flattering. I mean, I would call that earlier thing that I read kind of flattering but also sometimes a little tempered. But when it came to talking about their rule, he wrote quote to put it quite candidly, for my present purpose is not to compose a eulogy, but to write an accurate history. Neither of them was fitted by temperament to govern. They neither knew how to administer, nor were they capable of serious argument on the subject of politics. For the most part, they confused the trifles of the harem with important matters of state. Even the very trait of the elder sister, which is commended among many folk today, namely her ungrudging liberality, dispensed very widely over a long period of time. Even this trait, although it was no doubt satisfactory to those who enjoyed it because of the benefits they received from her, was after all the sole cause, in the first place, of the universal corruption and of the reduction of Roman fortunes to their lowest ebb.

Zoe and Theodora ruled together from April to June of ten forty two, And as we said earlier, while they both seem to have been beloved, there wasn't ever present since that it was simply wrong for them to be on the throne without a man. So to solidify their position, Zoe married again, this time to Constantine Monomachos. He was a wealthy aristocrat who had a reputation for being a womanizer, but he also had experiencing government. He also had his own connection to the dynasty, although it was a somewhat distant one. He was related to Zoe's late first husband, Romanos, and he, in this marriage became Emperor Constantine the ninth. Zoe, Theodora, and Constantine all ruled together, but getting married did not really do much to avert scandal as it had been intended. Constantine had a lover named Sclorina, and that by itself would not have raised too many eyebrows, especially if he had kept her in his own house without being too showy about it and without being too extravagant and public, and any gifts that he might give to her. He did not do that, though he moved her into the palace and essentially treated her as though she were his wife, giving her the title of Augusta and having the staff refer to her as Empress. That's not problematic at all. According to the Chronographia, Zoe, who at this point was in her sixties, actually didn't really object to this. Scleriina seems to have wanted to stay in the Empress's good graces, gifting them things that they particularly loved. For Zoe that was sweet herbs, and for Theodora it was Persian coins, which she collected. But in ten forty four Scleriina, who had asthma and had been experiencing chest pains, died suddenly.

Zoe and Theodora ruled together from April to June of ten forty two, And as we said earlier, while they both seem to have been beloved, there wasn't ever present since that it was simply wrong for them to be on the throne without a man. So to solidify their position, Zoe married again, this time to Constantine Monomachos. He was a wealthy aristocrat who had a reputation for being a womanizer, but he also had experiencing government. He also had his own connection to the dynasty, although it was a somewhat distant one. He was related to Zoe's late first husband, Romanos, and he, in this marriage became Emperor Constantine the ninth. Zoe, Theodora, and Constantine all ruled together, but getting married did not really do much to avert scandal as it had been intended. Constantine had a lover named Sclorina, and that by itself would not have raised too many eyebrows, especially if he had kept her in his own house without being too showy about it and without being too extravagant and public, and any gifts that he might give to her. He did not do that, though he moved her into the palace and essentially treated her as though she were his wife, giving her the title of Augusta and having the staff refer to her as Empress. That's not problematic at all. According to the Chronographia, Zoe, who at this point was in her sixties, actually didn't really object to this. Scleriina seems to have wanted to stay in the Empress's good graces, gifting them things that they particularly loved. For Zoe that was sweet herbs, and for Theodora it was Persian coins, which she collected. But in ten forty four Scleriina, who had asthma and had been experiencing chest pains, died suddenly.

Constantine, who it seems Zoe chose as a husband in part because of his administrative experience, turned out to be pretty lavish in his spending and also delegated most of the actual work of governing to other people. Just spent money really freely from the royal treasury and did not do a lot of the management work himself. He also ordered the execution of John the Orfanotrophos, who had already been exiled. He fought off a revolt led by a soldier named Maniases, and the empire also had to defend itself against a Russian fleet which attacked in retaliation for the death of Ascidian noble, who was killed in a brawl in Constantinople. Then there was another attempted usurpation, complete with the false rumor that Constantine was actually dead. That rumor was helped along by the fact that he did have some kind of recurring serious illness.

Constantine, who it seems Zoe chose as a husband in part because of his administrative experience, turned out to be pretty lavish in his spending and also delegated most of the actual work of governing to other people. Just spent money really freely from the royal treasury and did not do a lot of the management work himself. He also ordered the execution of John the Orfanotrophos, who had already been exiled. He fought off a revolt led by a soldier named Maniases, and the empire also had to defend itself against a Russian fleet which attacked in retaliation for the death of Ascidian noble, who was killed in a brawl in Constantinople. Then there was another attempted usurpation, complete with the false rumor that Constantine was actually dead. That rumor was helped along by the fact that he did have some kind of recurring serious illness.

Toward the end of her life, Zoe put more and more of the day to day administration of the empire in Constantine's hands, which he, of course then delegated. Then, after a short and intense illness, she died in ten point fifty at the age estimated to be about seventy two. Constantine was described as being heartbroken after her passing, and he died five years later. That left Theodora as the last of the Macedonian dynasty and Slasha's words quote she herself appointed her officials, dispensed justice from her throne with due solemnity, exercised her vote in the courts of law, issued decrees, sometimes in writing, sometimes by word of mouth. She gave orders, and her manner did not always show consideration for the feelings of her subjects, for she was sometimes more than a little abrupt. But Silash also says that she didn't trust her own judgment, relying too much on the opinions of other people and appointing a man who was quote completely lacking in political temperament as the head of her administration. And this doesn't come up in the accounts of Zoe and Theodora personally, but it was a big enough historical moment that it seems weird not to mention it. In ten fifty four, the Pope Leo the ninth excommunicated the Patriarch of Constantinople, Michael Serrelarius, from the Roman Catholic Church, and the patriarch excommunicated the pope in turn. This became known as the Schism of ten fifty four or the East West Schism, which was the the final split between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches after years of growing tension. So that was toward the end of Theodore's life. She never married.

Toward the end of her life, Zoe put more and more of the day to day administration of the empire in Constantine's hands, which he, of course then delegated. Then, after a short and intense illness, she died in ten point fifty at the age estimated to be about seventy two. Constantine was described as being heartbroken after her passing, and he died five years later. That left Theodora as the last of the Macedonian dynasty and Slasha's words quote she herself appointed her officials, dispensed justice from her throne with due solemnity, exercised her vote in the courts of law, issued decrees, sometimes in writing, sometimes by word of mouth. She gave orders, and her manner did not always show consideration for the feelings of her subjects, for she was sometimes more than a little abrupt. But Silash also says that she didn't trust her own judgment, relying too much on the opinions of other people and appointing a man who was quote completely lacking in political temperament as the head of her administration. And this doesn't come up in the accounts of Zoe and Theodora personally, but it was a big enough historical moment that it seems weird not to mention it. In ten fifty four, the Pope Leo the ninth excommunicated the Patriarch of Constantinople, Michael Serrelarius, from the Roman Catholic Church, and the patriarch excommunicated the pope in turn. This became known as the Schism of ten fifty four or the East West Schism, which was the the final split between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches after years of growing tension. So that was toward the end of Theodore's life. She never married.

She died on August thirty first, ten fifty six, at the age of about seventy five. She named a civil servant as her successor, and he became Michael the sixth Stratiotkos.

She died on August thirty first, ten fifty six, at the age of about seventy five. She named a civil servant as her successor, and he became Michael the sixth Stratiotkos.

This was the start of another period of chaos. Michael six was overthrown in a military rebellion in ten fifty seven, and then there was an abdication a general who took the throne, only to be captured by the Turks and replaced with a puppet ruler, and then yet another military revolt, the Byzantine Empire was finally conquered by the Ottoman Empire in fourteen fifty three. Yeah, like four hundred more years passed between that sum up of things that immediately followed this last Michael and the end of the empire. There's a mosaic of Zoe and the Hya Sophia in Istanbul. It bears the inscription Zoe the most Pious Augusta. It's also possible that Zoe and Theodora are depicted in medallions in the Kakuli Triptych, which is a poison a depiction of the Virgin Mary. The figures in that are not specifically named, but one of these medallions depicts two empresses together with the Virgin Mary, possibly being blessed or crowned, and it's actually the only known depiction of two empresses together with the Virgin Mary. And all of Byzantine art, that is the kind of roller coaster of Zoe and Theodora with uh with some question marks about the the accounts in some cases, yes, and who poisoned whom?

This was the start of another period of chaos. Michael six was overthrown in a military rebellion in ten fifty seven, and then there was an abdication a general who took the throne, only to be captured by the Turks and replaced with a puppet ruler, and then yet another military revolt, the Byzantine Empire was finally conquered by the Ottoman Empire in fourteen fifty three. Yeah, like four hundred more years passed between that sum up of things that immediately followed this last Michael and the end of the empire. There's a mosaic of Zoe and the Hya Sophia in Istanbul. It bears the inscription Zoe the most Pious Augusta. It's also possible that Zoe and Theodora are depicted in medallions in the Kakuli Triptych, which is a poison a depiction of the Virgin Mary. The figures in that are not specifically named, but one of these medallions depicts two empresses together with the Virgin Mary, possibly being blessed or crowned, and it's actually the only known depiction of two empresses together with the Virgin Mary. And all of Byzantine art, that is the kind of roller coaster of Zoe and Theodora with uh with some question marks about the the accounts in some cases, yes, and who poisoned whom?

And did? Did did anyone drown accidentally or were they purposefully drowned? So many, so many potential murders and assassinations in this story. Thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday. If you'd like to send us a note, our email addresses History Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com, and you can subscribe to the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

And did? Did did anyone drown accidentally or were they purposefully drowned? So many, so many potential murders and assassinations in this story. Thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday. If you'd like to send us a note, our email addresses History Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com, and you can subscribe to the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.