The story of how strawberries went from small forage item to one of the world’s most popular fruits – though they're technically not a true fruit – involves lots of crossbreeding experimentation, as you might expect, but also a bit of spy craft.
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Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Frye.
And I'm Tracy V. Wilson.
Tracy, have you noticed that strawberries are kind of having a moment.
I'm gonna be honest, I haven't, just because I'm not aware of anything happening fashionably.
Do you know what it is? It's also just that you're not a rabid consumer the way I am. Okay, Holly buys a lot of things she doesn't mean, but strawberries are. They're having a moment. If you look at clothing or home design goods that are out this year, strawberries are everywhere. I literally got an email promotion for like plush strawberry pillows. Oh my goodness. It's like, all right, humans have been enjoying strawberries around the world for thousands of years, but as a cultivated plant, they're actually pretty new. The story of how they went from a small forage item to one of the world's most popular fruits. There is a technicality in there regarding that designation that we're going to talk about in just a moment, but that story involves a lot of crossbreeding experimentation as you would expect, but what I love about it is there's also a bit of spycraft. I didn't mean to pick another French thing. I really just wanted to learn more about strawberries because they were in my face everywhere. But that's what we're talking about today.
Strawberries are actually part of the rose family, from the family rose a cia. If that seems surprising, the rose family is really quite massive. It contains four subfamilies, more than ninety genus categories, and roughly twenty five hundred species.
A rose is.
In the genus Rosa. We think of it as a flower, but rose are also a fruit. The Roseesia family also contains almonds, pears, and apples, lots of other fruits as well. Strawberries, which are rich and vitamin see, are in the genus Frigaria. So the seeds of the strawberry, if you've ever seen one, are of course on the outside, and that makes it unique in the fruit world. But it's actually not really a fruit or a berry at all. A strawberry, the thing we eat and what we think of as the strawberry, is actually the end of the plant's stamen, right it's the receptacle that receives pollen. So if you look at a strawberry flour, there's a nodule at the center, and that is the receptacle, and it's that nodule that eventually grows into the fleshy thing we eat, provided it's been pollinated. And the strawberry is sometimes called an accessory fruit because of this, and each of those seeds on the outside is the actual fruit, known as a chienes, although we wouldn't think of them fruit because they're not delicious. I mean, there might be someone that thinks strawberry seeds are delicious, but I've never met one. And an average strawberry has as many as two hundred of these not really seeds on its skin, and those can be used to grow new plants, but the more common way for new plants to form is actually through runners. So a healthy plant will send out shoots called stolens, and those who will root when they touch the ground, and then a new plant will grow there. Strawberries have not been cultivated in the sense that we know them now for really all that long, only about two hundred and fifty years, but of course they've been around for a lot longer than that. If you've ever seen strawberries growing in the wild, or even if you've grown some from seed, those were probably a lot smaller than the ones you might buy at a grocery store. And that's what strawberries are like without human intervention in breeding and cultivation. But even before humans knew how to grow big, juicy strawberries, they really loved them. Horticultural biologist James F. Hancock notes in his book on Strawberries, quote, the ease with which strawberries can be collected from the wild may actually have delayed their cultivation until almost modern times. Naturally occurring strawberries have been enjoyed in recorded history since at least ancient Rome, and probably longer, but that's the first time we have a record of them. It's estimated that people started domesticating strawberries, growing them on purpose but not messing with their genetics, about two thousand years ago, and that seems like a long time, but if you compare that to the domestication of grain, which started roughly ten thousand years ago, it's obviously not that long. And even so, these were in all likelihoods just clippings or transplants of the small, previously forged strawberries that we mentioned a moment ago, and again not the fat, juicy ones. Larger versions seen in markets today are the ones that we mentioned as being cultivated in the last two hundred and fifty years, and we'll get to how those came about in just a bit. Avid mentioned strawberries in his writings, and so did Virgil, but these mentions were not about them as food, more about them as ornamentals and identifiers. For example, in Avid's Metamorphoses, strawberries come up twice, once in a line where he just mentions the gathering of mountain strawberries, and another where character of Polypemus says to his estranged lover quote, with thine own hands, thou shalt thyself gather the soft strawberries growing beneath the woodland shade. Pliny the Elder mentions the strawberry in Natural History as a plant native to Italy, but he also seems to confuse it with another plant with a similar name. In the same book, and in Virgil's work Eclogues, written in the first cent BCE, he notes the boys that gather flowers and strawberries low hid within the grass a serpent lies. It's a warning about snakes more than it's about the strawberry. The scant other mentions of strawberries and writing before the fourteenth century tended to be about the appearance of the berries or the flowers rather than their edible potential.
And even once people did start eating them or consuming them in other ways, strawberries were just as likely to be consumed for health reasons as for having any kind of sweet fruit, and all parts of the plant have been used in various treatments. So there are mentions of strawberries being used to treat diarrhea, gout, indigestion, skin irritations, sunburn, pimples, and yellow teeth in various medical texts throughout history, and these uses have some solid scientific basis, although those early users of strawberries as medicine wouldn't have had the data we have today. To Turk heard to you right now, we know that strawberries are, as we mentioned earlier, loaded with vitamin C and also full like acid, antioxidants and potassium, as well as just being full of fiber.
Where the name strawberry comes from is a matter of speculation, and the theory is very quite a lot One idea is that because they grow on the ground, they may have often been seen growing in straw. Another is that the berries might have been threaded on straw to be easy to carry and sell, or maybe that they were stored on beds of straw for transport to markets. Another, and one that maybe makes the most sense, is that they were first called strawberries because of the way that they grew strewn about the ground, or maybe because they ripened at the same time as hay did, and then that eventually the name shifted to a different vowel in the first syllable. I have seen the speculation that maybe those little seed like bits on the outside looked like straw dust to people, and that was maybe the source of it. But anyway, the first known use of the word strawberry comes from a pictorial vocabulary of the latter fifteenth century. In the fourteenth century, strawberries had become popular enough in France that the transition was made from foraging them to gardening them. This was a strawberry species that had been found in the woods fragaria vesca, which people started to purposely grow near their homes for easy access, Although they still were often sought out for their visual appeal and not necessarily for eating. There are also many instances of strawberries appearing in religious art in Europe in its early years of cultivation. Strawberries appear in imagery throughout the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries, often symbolizing righteousness. In thirteen sixty eight, strawberries were included in the gardens of the At this time it was still the main palace of the King of France, who is Charles the Fifth, and at the King's request, royal gardener Jean Dudoit incorporated twelve hundred strawberries into the garden's design. I bet that was so pretty, yeap. By the fourteen hundred, strawberries were being sold by street vendors in London, and by the fifteen hundreds, another species Fugaria muscata, also known as the musk strawberry, had made its way into gardens as well. Strawberries were grown in other European countries in addition to England and France. Shakespeare's Richard the Third includes a mention of strawberries by the Duke of Gloucester, who described seeing them in the garden of the Bishop of Ely and asks that the Bishop sent him some. By the time Shakespeare wrote that play in fifteen ninety seven, strawberries had been extremely popular in England for decades. King Henry the eighth was a big fan. They were described does a medicinal remedy in the fifteen twenty sixth book The Great herbal and were discussed at length in a fifteen thirty sixth book, The Natcheri Usturpium Libri, which was written by a botanist named Druelius. The strawberry had also been classified as a plant that was appropriate for women to cultivate in the fifteen fifty seven book Five hundred Points of Good Husbandry. By that point there was a clear division in writings between strawberries that were purposely grown versus strawberries that were naturally occurring, and France had continued to embrace the strawberry into the sixteenth century. Henry the fourth of France's personal physician wrote about them in the fifteen sixties. Their cultivation was described in detail in the fifteen seventy eight writing Le Criculture re Maison rustique, written by Jean le Beau and Charles Etienne, and in this book that duo recommended that fields should be planted with rawberries every third year as a way to keep them fertile. Across the Atlantic, North America had its own native strawberry, the Fragaria virginiana or Virginia strawberry. Sometime in the seventeenth century, the Virginia strawberry made its way to Europe. How that happened exactly is a little unclear, but as Europe already loved strawberries, this new variety was embraced and it started to be actively cultivated and crossed with others, creating more than two dozen new species, but these were still in terms of the fruit on the small side.
In seventeen fourteen, something happened that changed the strawberry forever. The short version is that a native Chilean species known as Fragaria chiloensis made its way to Europe. But the story is much more interesting than that, and we're going to talk about it after we pause for a sponsor break. Fragaria chili insis is naturally a bit larger than the strawberries that Europeans and North Americans were accustomed to in the early eighteenth century. It was more than likely cultivated by the mapuch and Huilich people for centuries before Europeans ever knew about it. When conquistador Francisco Pizarro's forces conquered Chile in the mid sixteenth century, they took some of these strawberries with them to Cuzco, Peru. There the fruit was written about by Garcelazzo de la Vega. His description was of a heart shaped fruit that had seeds on the outside. Although it's clear that's talking about a strawberry. He called it by a name that we associate with something very different. He called it the Chile. Other Europeans who traveled to Chile also made note of this fruit, comparing it to its European counterparts, but all was mentioning it, mentioning that it had better flavor and was larger, some comparing them to the size of large nuts. These Chilean strawberries are described as being different colors in different people's accounts, ranging from red to white, with basically every gradation in between. But for some reason, no one writing these descriptions ever thought to bring one back to Europe.
These accounts, and particularly won by French priest Louis Foyer, got the attention of France's King Louis the fourteenth. He wanted to know more about this delicious berry, so he found an engineer who could be sent to the Americas to assess the forces of the Spanish colonies there. Louis the fourteenths grandson, the Duke of Anjous, had become King Philip the Fifth of Spain following the War of Spanish Succession, so this spy work was more about making sure things were good and that Louis the Fourteenth's financial and political backing of Philip the Fifth were worthwhile, as well as ensuring that France understood the situation completely in case everything went sideways on the global stage. So even though Spain and France were allies at this time, this was still a secret mission. But the selected spy was also tasked with collecting information and samples of the plant life of South America. Depending on the source you read, was possibly also keeping an eye out for the amazing strawberry that Fuia and others had written about. Yes, there's not a clear line of evidence that says that that it was a straw was like, go get me some strawberries, but it does seem like he was very intrigued by them, and this person certainly does get some That spy that we're talking about was a thirty two year old lieutenant colonel named Amade Flansois Flesier. Flesier was born in sixteen two in Chamberry, Savoy, which is in the eastern part of France. It's about three hundred kilometers from the Swiss border. Initially, the path that Amade Francois was expected to follow in terms of education was one that was going to lead him to the legal profession, which is what his father did. But Fresier was not interested in the law. He was interested in science, and he managed to convince his father that he should go to Paris to study that instead of law. In his studies, he focused on navigation and astronomy, and he wrote his thesis on the relationship.
Between the two. And when he had completed his education in Paris, he then spent time in Italy, where he also indulged his interest in architecture and art and studied those disciplines during his time there, but he didn't immediately translate his education into a strictly scientific vocation. In seventeen hundred, at the age of eighteen, Fresier joined the military, enlisting with the Army of France, but he still did keep his scientific work going, really for no other reason than to occupy himself. He had a lot of free time in the infantry. He wrote a paper on pyrotechnics, including instructions on the manufacture of fireworks. But this did actually advance his military career, as did mention the possible uses of fireworks by the military. So this landed him a position as a military engineer. That position was part of the intelligence branch, and that's how he came to be the man for the job that Louis the fourteenth had in mind. His varied knowledge of navigation, explosives, and science led to him being selected by his commanding officers as the man they recommended. He sailed out on January seventh, seventeen twelve, when Frasier boarded the ship the Saint Joseph headed for South America. He knew that he would be undercover as he completed this mission. He arrived in Concepts, Chile on June sixteenth, and he couldn't exactly hide, so instead he created an alternate backstory for himself and posed as a merchant trader. This persona made it possible for him to travel openly and to visit places under the guise of mere curiosity instead of performing reconnaissance. For two and a half years he toured Peru and Chile, feigning to be a merchant and a tourist, all the while documenting the fortifications of the Spanish military. He made detailed maps of the Spanish colonial forts, with detailed accounts of their artillery and their weak points where an attack might be mounted, as well as their potential roots of escape, and accompanying those maps and accounts, he included information about the surrounding areas, such as the indigenous populations, the municipal governments, religious practices of the locals, etc.
These were cultivated strawberries in soil that Frazier described as quote extraordinarily fertile. He wrote of the location, quote there they plant whole fields with a sort of strawberry rushes differing from ours, and that the leaves are rounder, thicker, and more downy. The fruit is generally as big as a walnut, and sometimes as a hen's egg, of a whitish red, and somewhat less delicious of taste than our wood strawberries. Besides these, there is plenty in the woods of our European kind. Frasier also noted in the description that he had collected some of these plants for the King's garden. He also included a life size drawing of the strawberries. He described this drawing showed them full of fruit, but not showing the plant's flowers. When Frasier returned to France on August seventeenth, seventeen fourteen, he carried with him five of the strawberry plants which he had cared for on the voyage back across the Atlantic. This was no small feet. Listen, if you've ever transported plants, you know there are dangers, and in addition to all of the jostling that a plant might meet at sea, water was rationed on this trip, so prioritizing the plant's need for it had required careful calculation in some assistance from a crew member who will mention in just a moment. Fresier was honored by Louis the fourteenth for this work, with a cash reward for the many maps he returned with and of course those strawberries. Amedi Fresier wrote a book about his travels titled Account of the Voyage from the South Sea to the coasts of Chile, Peru, and Brazil, made during the years seventeen twelve, seventeen thirteen, and seventeen fourteen. Louis the fourteenth did not live long enough to see this published. He died on September first, seventeen fifteen, which was the year before it was finished, so he really didn't get to see the full results of the spy mission or the fruit that came from it. A lot of people got to read about it, though, because Frasier's book, which corrected a number of map errors made by his predecessor Lui Flier, and caused an ongoing feud between those two men that was translated into English, Dutch, and German. Monica Barnes, writing for the American Museum of Natural History in two thousand and eight, noted of this popular text quote, most of the information in Frasier's text is superficial, obviously biased, and available from other sources. However, during the second and third decades of the eighteenth century, there was little information on western South America available to readers outside the Spanish speaking world. To a certain extent, Frasier filled that gap. The great strength of his work lies not in its narrative, but in its many excellent illustrations.
The illustrations are very good. So of those five plants that we mentioned that he brought back, only one of them actually went to the king, or more specifically, to the King's gardener in Paris, Antoine de Jusieux. Remember, strawberries readily reproduce and spread through runners, so that one plant led to many, and in addition to the King's plant, Fresier kept one for himself, he gave one to his boss, Monsieur Pelletier, and he gave two to a Monsieur Rux, who had been in charge of cargo on the voyage to France and who had been very key to making sure the plants got water. But though all of these plants produced new plants through runners, what they weren't producing was fruit, because, as it turned out, the Chilean strawberry was a species that has male plants and female plants, as many strawberries are, and you need both of those to achieve pollination and produce fruit.
It's long been presumed that Fresier, and wanting to bring the best plants back to France, naturally selected ones that bore large fruit that meant they were all female. Although Jesu had shared the runners of the King's plant with other gardeners both in France and abroad, they just couldn't get them to produce any fruit, except occasionally very small, misshapen, and incomplete ones. There were a lot of studies made of the plants, with details about their large flowers and stout leaves, and all of this was recorded and analyzed, but there was just no fruit. One Dutch botanist called it the Chili strawberry without blooms or fruits in his notes. They were taken to gardeners in England who tried to solve the puzzle. Some experimenters got really good at producing large, healthy blooms, but that was all the success they could really achieve. By the seventeen forties, a lot of gardeners had grown tired of trying to get something out of the Chilean plants, and in England they had fallen out of favor.
But the strawberry was not abandoned by every hopeful horticulturist. We'll talk about the breakthrough that offered some hope for the almost mythical berries that Fresier had touted. After we paused for a sponsor break. In France, some gardeners were managing to produce fruit from Fresier's plants, although not very many. There are notes of a Monsieur Denuete Greux, who reported that he had managed to get some very large berries, some with a circumference of seven point five inches, by crossing the Chilean plant with quote pollens from native berries. Fifty years after Fresier's plants arrived in Europe, someone produced large fruit from a Chilean strawberry and presented a bowl of that fruit to King Louis the fifteenth on July sixth, seventeen sixty four. That person was a teenager. He was just seventeen, and his name was Antoine Kolas Dushane, and he got his strawberries by crossing the Chilean strawberries with musk strawberries. Dushane, who was in line to inherit the job of superintendent of the King's buildings from his father, had learned a great deal about botany from the younger brother of the King's Paris gardener. That brother's name was Bernard de Jasieux, and Dushane was building on the work of other gardeners and botanists, and because of this gift to the King, he was given funding from the King to continue this work, and he used that funding to produce what would become a foundational text on strawberry cultivation. He also, at the King's request, collected specimens of all the known species of strawberry to be part of the gardens at Versailles.
His revelation regarding the sex of the plants had come on May twenty ninth, seventeen sixty four, when he had a Fragaria chiluensis sent to him from the Versailles garden. It had already bloomed and no berries were growing on it, and he was able to see that these flowers were female without any male Chilean plants. He placed it near a male musk strawberry, which he had noticed had some similarities to the Chilean import and by June sixth, just a week later, one of the receptacles had started to swell. It had been pollinated. This was the experiment that led to the berries that he presented to the King. Figuring out the key to consistent strawberries and their fertility did not happen instantly, though. Those beautiful berries that the seventeen year old Dushane brought to Versailles had not been able to reproduce. They didn't produce viable seeds.
Dushane dedicated himself to learning basically everything known about the strawberry and all of its varieties, as he also experimented with different iterations of cross pollination. He also consulted with well known scientists, including Linnaeus as he worked through his experiments, both for advice and kind of as a sort of peer review of his observations. But even Linnaeus was unconvinced of this idea of separate male and female plants, and he thought that perhaps Dushane had been observing strawberries that were frostbitten or damaged in some other way. When Duchane wrote his book about his work, he noted, quote no one I believe suspected before me the separations of the sexes in the capiton. And through working with his own experiments and the information he collected from other horticulturists, he was able to figure out that the greatest success in cross pollination happened when the female Chilean strawberries were combined with male Virginia strawberries. Large fruit was the consistent result, and that resulting fruit bore seeds, and those seeds produced plants that could self pollinate. He had created a new species of strawberry, which he called Fragaria ananasa. So ananasa is a reference to pineapples, because these resulting berries smelled to dushane like pineapple, and the Fragaria ananasa is the strawberry that we eat today.
The success of the combination of the two North American strawberry species has led to the theory that these two species were possibly originally from the same species, likely one that originated in Asia, and that these two lines developed in the separate climates of Chile and then farther north in North America. If that's the case, the two plant species went on a huge journey before being finally brought back together in France. So if you speak French, you may have been thinking throughout all of this that because of this extended spy mission, the word fres which means strawberry, was applied to the beloved fruit as an honor to the man who brought the Chilean samples back to the French king. But in a hilarious twist, that is actually the opposite of what happened. Fresier's family already had an association with the strawberry going quite away's back, and the name Fresier had been gifted to them by a previous king of France. So this story goes all the way back to the tenth century, when one of amide Frasier's ancestors, Julius du Bery, which is hilarious that he was already called Berry, served King Charles the Third strawberries at the end of a banquet as a gift. Not only was the king delighted, but his Italian guest, Cardinal Clemens of Monte Alto, was bowled over and described these berries as superior to any that could be found in Italy. So in thanks for making France look very good with a foreign official, Charles the Third knighted Julius de Berry and bestowed the name fres Strawberry upon him, as well as giving the family coat of arms strawberry blossoms, and then over time Frez shifted to Fresier. So in terms of lore, it almost seems like Ami Day was destined to be Louis the fourteenth Strawberry Guy. As for Fresier's life, host strawberry retrieval. It was a full one. He went back across the Atlantic in seventeen nineteen, this time as chief engineer at Santa Domingo in the Dominican Republic. He returned to Europe and oversaw the building of a reported twenty six defense structures. He got married and had a family, and he continued working, rising higher in his career until he finally retired at the age of eighty two. But he continued to write and read a great deal and died in seventeen seventy three at the age of ninety one, having been celebrated for a wide variety of achievements. Yeah, he's one of those people that was pretty recognized as like an icon and a sage. It is t time he got to enjoy the benefit of his reputation while he was still alive. Antoine Nicola Dushane continued to experiment with strawberries and other plants and published a lot of books about his work. He was able, for example, to identify the optimal temperatures at which strawberries would produce, and eventually also developed a master diagram of the theoretical genealogical tree, which included all of the known types of strawberries and how he believed they developed from a single origin point. When the French Revolution of seventeen eighty nine erupted, Duchane lost his post, and because he was so connected to the royal family, he was in real danger of being guillotined. He did manage to ride out the conflict with his life, though, and he turned to teaching once things had settled down. But after that his life became sort of a series of bad money management, sorrow at the loss of his wife and daughter, ventually rapidly declining health. He died in eighteen twenty seven after a series of strokes, just shy of his eightieth Birthdayshane saw in his lifetime the benefit of his work in strawberry breeding. Before he died, many many gardeners throughout Europe were implementing the information he had developed to produce big, juicy, self fertile strawberry crops. Dishes featuring strawberries became luxury items, with strawberries and cream being especially popular. Doushane's legacy is still part of every supermarket strawberry we eat. The USDA estimates that ninety four percent of all US households consumed strawberries in some form each year, with each person eating an estimated four point eighty five pounds on average annually. The US produces three billion pounds of strawberries each year at a rate of about six thousand pounds per acre. By the early twenty teens, strawberries had become the third most important fruit crop for the US economy, following grapes and oranges.
And all because of Duchane and fresier.
Do you have some listener mail for us?
Yeah, I surely do. This is from our listener Katie, who writes, Hi, Holly and Tracy, I really enjoyed your recent episode on the children's morality code. My kid's elementary school has used a program called Character Strong for the last several years. I saw some of the lessons when school was over zoom. I definitely saw some echoes of this old morality code in them. There was one that was about determination, if I remember correctly, That featured a video celebrating a disabled girl running along race even though she was unable to walk. Afterwards, being reminded of the program made me curious, so I checked out their website. It doesn't have many particulars about the program, but it does have this in the description quote explicit direct skill instruction designed to lead to three powerful outcomes. Be strong, be kind, be well. Yikes, I've sent you all pictures of our pets before, so I thought i'd mix it up and send a recent quilting project. I'm still a novice, but I've made a lot of progress and an Abert's squirrel eating fallen bird seed. Thanks for all the work you do and throwing in some lighter episodes during all of this. You may be a novice, but this quilting is beautiful. It's a really beautiful kind of green and cream with accents of peach and pink florals on it. It's absolutely gorgeous. And I always love a squirrel picture. We have squirrel friends to visit our deck all the time. I just put out food for them too. We keep everybody fat and happy on our deck. But Katie, thanks for this. Terrifying to know that we're still doing that garbage.
Yeah, I mean, like we said in the behind the scenes, I totally get teaching kids about things like honesty.
Yes, and like strength of character great. Yeah, but the idea of like you have to push beyond your physical limits to a point that seems dangerous, where you are unable to function. That's not strength, that's that's dangerous.
The idea of associating morals with being.
Well, right, you'll be less disabled if you're stronger is messed up. Uh huh, super messed up. I hope somebody is reviewing that and realizing how woefully bad it is. Listen, teach kids to be kind, take care of themselves and one another. So good you don't you don't have to do any of the other moralizing about what it is to be a stronger. I hate all that. Yes, it gives me the ick.
Really, I'm reminded of the person who sent us a letter whose two family rules were don't hit and hold hands in the parking lot, which they had as an adult sort of re envisioned as be kind to one another and look out for each other.
That's very funny. You are reminding me of many moons ago. I used to manage a hair salon and one of our clients had two boys and they did the thing. I've heard of other families doing this, but this mom made these two boys do this in public ones and it tickled me. And I don't know if anyone would think it was terribly cruel, but they were fighting real bad, okay, in public, and so she had a giant shirt that she made them wear together.
I think I've heard of this, the giant shirt story.
She's not the only one. She stuck out to me because of some prominence in terms of being connected to a professional athlete. But you know, what was one of those things where it just I understand the logic of it. I'm not a parent. I don't know what works for any given family, but the logic, right is, of course, if you have to be in that close proximity, you cannot be physically fighting or you will just both fall down. Yeah. Yeah, there's a whole restraint discussion to be had there, but I get it. Listen, the rules of how people teach kids are constantly changing. Yeah. In any case, Yeah, just be kind to one another, be kind of look out for each other. If you would like to write to us to tell us whether or not you had to share a shirt with a sibling when you fought, or anything else, you can do that at History Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com, and you can subscribe to the podcast Easiest Pie on the iHeart Radio app, or anywhere you listen to your favorite shows.
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