Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson, and I'm Holly Frye. I don't remember exactly what was happening when, like the first seed was planted for this episode, but I am pretty sure I was on discord, which means I was playing a game, whatever it was. Things were winding down and somebody said I moved that the meeting be adjourned. We were not in a meeting, but well, we all knew what that meant, and I found that whole moment hilarious. So that's stuck in my brain, even though the exact surroundings of what was happening did not. And then in the weeks after that, just random references to Robert's Rules of Order kept popping up at odd places in my life, until I was finally like, Okay, who is Robert? Robert was Henry Martin Robert, so unlike what I had always assumed, Robert was his last name, not his first name. My first experience with Robert's Rules of Order was in four AH meetings in the nineteen eighties, and to me, it somehow felt like something out of my parents' generation. But Henry Martin Robert lived way before that, and he was connected to multiple events that we have covered on the show before, most of them really had nothing to do with parliamentary procedure. I know all of you know how much I like to read from old historical documents on the podcast. And if you're thinking, Tracy, are you about to trick us into listening to you read Robert's Rules of Order? No, we are not going to read Robert's.

Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson, and I'm Holly Frye. I don't remember exactly what was happening when, like the first seed was planted for this episode, but I am pretty sure I was on discord, which means I was playing a game, whatever it was. Things were winding down and somebody said I moved that the meeting be adjourned. We were not in a meeting, but well, we all knew what that meant, and I found that whole moment hilarious. So that's stuck in my brain, even though the exact surroundings of what was happening did not. And then in the weeks after that, just random references to Robert's Rules of Order kept popping up at odd places in my life, until I was finally like, Okay, who is Robert? Robert was Henry Martin Robert, so unlike what I had always assumed, Robert was his last name, not his first name. My first experience with Robert's Rules of Order was in four AH meetings in the nineteen eighties, and to me, it somehow felt like something out of my parents' generation. But Henry Martin Robert lived way before that, and he was connected to multiple events that we have covered on the show before, most of them really had nothing to do with parliamentary procedure. I know all of you know how much I like to read from old historical documents on the podcast. And if you're thinking, Tracy, are you about to trick us into listening to you read Robert's Rules of Order? No, we are not going to read Robert's.

Rules of Order.

Rules of Order.

Because I don't want to, and I also don't want people who are super familiar with it to yell at me about getting anything wrong. This is way about his life than the specifics of Robert's rules, all right.

Because I don't want to, and I also don't want people who are super familiar with it to yell at me about getting anything wrong. This is way about his life than the specifics of Robert's rules, all right.

So, Henry Martin Robert was born May second, eighteen thirty seven on his grandfather's plantation near Robertville, South Carolina, And yes, Robertville was named for the Robert family, although they were descended from Huguenots, who probably would have pronounced it in a more French way because who wouldn't want you anyway? The white families in this area were tightly connected through various intermarriages. Henry's parents Joseph Thomas Robert and Adeline Lawton were cousins.

So, Henry Martin Robert was born May second, eighteen thirty seven on his grandfather's plantation near Robertville, South Carolina, And yes, Robertville was named for the Robert family, although they were descended from Huguenots, who probably would have pronounced it in a more French way because who wouldn't want you anyway? The white families in this area were tightly connected through various intermarriages. Henry's parents Joseph Thomas Robert and Adeline Lawton were cousins.

Henry was one of six children born to Joseph and Adeline, and four of those children survived until adulthood. This family was devoutly religious. They had been devoutly religious for generations. Those ancestors who first immigrated to North America included Pierre Robert, who became pastor of South Carolina's first French Huguenot church. Eventually, the Robertses had become Baptists, and Henry's father and grandfather were both Baptist ministers. His father, Joseph Thomas Robert, also trained as a doctor.

Henry was one of six children born to Joseph and Adeline, and four of those children survived until adulthood. This family was devoutly religious. They had been devoutly religious for generations. Those ancestors who first immigrated to North America included Pierre Robert, who became pastor of South Carolina's first French Huguenot church. Eventually, the Robertses had become Baptists, and Henry's father and grandfather were both Baptist ministers. His father, Joseph Thomas Robert, also trained as a doctor.

In the years before the US Civil War, there were white clergy who used the Bible and religion to justify slavery, but Joseph Robert's religious convictions eventually led him to oppose slavery. Some of the more recent writing on Henry Martin Robert makes it sound like his father was a vocal abolitionist who manumitted his enslaved workforce and moved the family to the free state of Ohio to get away from the institution. Many of the more recent writings also assigned this viewpoint to Henry's mother, Adeline as well as to Henry himself. The reality is a.

In the years before the US Civil War, there were white clergy who used the Bible and religion to justify slavery, but Joseph Robert's religious convictions eventually led him to oppose slavery. Some of the more recent writing on Henry Martin Robert makes it sound like his father was a vocal abolitionist who manumitted his enslaved workforce and moved the family to the free state of Ohio to get away from the institution. Many of the more recent writings also assigned this viewpoint to Henry's mother, Adeline as well as to Henry himself. The reality is a.

Little bit more complicated. Though they did not go straight from South Carolina to Ohio, they moved several times between eighteen thirty nine and eighteen forty nine. The exact reasons for all those moves aren't clearly documented, but it was pretty common for past to move from one congregation to another for all kinds of reasons. The family's first move was to Covington, Kentucky, in eighteen thirty nine. Kentucky was a slave state and there were both pro and anti slavery factions in Covington. They were in Covington for less than two years before moving to Lebanon, Ohio, so a free state, but then five years later they moved to Georgia, a slave state, where Joseph served as pastor of the First Baptist Church of Savannah. In eighteen forty nine, they moved back to Robertville. When the family moved yet again to Portsmouth, Ohio, they were in a free state, but they were in a town that had a lot of Southern sympathizers. Although there are family stories about Adeline trying to teach enslave children to read in her youth and coming to oppost slavery as well. She also maintained strong Southern sympathies and clearly missed her plantation life in South Carolina and Henry Martin robert views on slavery are not specifically detailed in his public writings or in the papers that have been made available to historians and biographers. Yeah, I read a whole paper that was published back in twenty twelve that was like, his personal views on almost everything are a total mystery. And while there is a biography that came out after that paper was written, it also is not very specific about his views on pretty much anything. We'll talk about that a little bit more on the Friday Behind the Scenes. While the Roberts family was living in Portsmouth, Ohio, Henry Martin Roberts was appointed to the US Military Academy at West Point in New York, where he hoped to train as an engineer. He was sixteen, That made him one of the youngest cadets in his class. He graduated in eighteen fifty seven, and during his last year at the academy, he also served as a mathematics instructor. Math is, of course a huge part of engineering and a lack of mathema proficiency was one of the main reasons that cadets failed out of that course of study. Henry really excelled at math, though so much so that they had him teaching it before he had even graduated, and then he graduated fourth in his class overall. When he graduated, he became a second lieutenant in the Army Corps of Engineers, and for a year he continued teaching at West Point. I will say, if you can do your studies and have the job of teaching and still graduate fourth, I think you're terrifying as an achiever in a good way. After that, his first assignment was to Washington Territory. He set out on October third, eighteen fifty eight, taking a steamship south, crossing the Isthmus of Panama by train and making the rest of the voyage by sea. He contracted malaria while traveling across Panama, and he wasn't really given any time to recover. Once he arrived in Washington, he and his unit were immediately set to work building a road. The United States was at war with indigenous nations in the Pacific Northwest, and the Army Corps of Engineers was building roads and bridges and surveying for railroad lines to facilitate troop movements in that conflict. Yeah, that's not the only place that wars with indigenous people were going on, but he was. That's where he was located at that point. Robert's work building roads was disrupted by an incident we covered on the show almost a decade ago. That was the Pig War, and we will run that episode as a Saturday Classic, but briefly, because of some unspecific treaty language, the United States and the United Kingdom were both claiming to control San Juan Island, which is east of Vancouver Island and northwest of Seattle. On June fifteenth, eighteen fifty nine, an American named Lyman Cutler shot and killed a pig that was rooting through his crops. And this pig was the property of the Hudson's Bay Company, so this became an international incident. As this dispute escalated, Robert and a ten man engineering team were sent to the island to build fortifications in a camp along with a one hundred man army detachment. They built an earthen redoubt that was nicknamed Robert's Gopher Hole. In doing so, they totally changed the landscape of San Juan Island. Much of it had been covered by fir trees which were felled to build that redoubt, leaving a prairie behind. The Remains of this redoubt are still visible today. It's a National Historic Landmark that's part of San Juan Island National Historic Park. This redoubt is sometimes credited with helping to keep this standoff from turning into an active shooting war. It offered cover for cannons from an army steamer that had been dragged up a hill, so that made it possible for a very small American force to hold the island against pretty much any attack that the British could muster. But the building process for this did not go very smoothly. There was a lot of difficult, dirty labor, A lot of it was more physically grueling than the engineers were used to. The army detachment was simultaneously frustrated that Robert was not rationing out enough whiskey and also able to get access to enough illicit alcohol that drunkenness and misbehavior were ongoing problems. There were two mutinies, a court martial and at least one duel that had to be broken up. Eventually, President James Buchanan ordered General Winfield Scott to the island to try to restore calm. By that point, Robert's engineering team had finished the redoubt and were building other defenses and a larger camp. Scott ultimately negotiated a joint occupation of San Juan Island, so those defenses and camp facilities were no longer needed. Robert was sent back to the road project that he had been working on before the Pig War, but in April of eighteen sixty Robert asked to be relieved of duty. He was chronically ill and also frustrated by the work he was doing didn't really line up with what he had been studying at West Point or hoping to do. Another frustration was what he saw as a lack of discipline and protocol in the men who were serving under him. Initially, he did not get a response to this request, and he became very ill. A couple of months later, while trying to blaze a pack trail to Fort Vancouver, he finally received word that he could return to Washington, d C. Once he was relieved by another officer. That happened, and he left in September of eighteen sixty. That, of course, was not long before the start of the US Civil War, and we will get into that after we pause for a sponsor break. Brother against brother is one of the cliches that comes up a lot around the US Civil War, and the Robert family was one that really did have members on opposite sides. Henry Martin Robert's father, Joseph, stayed in the North, something that most sources attribute to his feelings on the issue of slavery. Henry's mother, Adeline, was more conflicted. She stayed with her husband, but she still felt a deep loyalty to her home state of South Carolina. She really hated being cut off from all of her family there because of the war. She was also terrified that her brothers, who joined the Confederate Army, would wind up facing her son Henry in combat because Henry remained with the United States Army.

Little bit more complicated. Though they did not go straight from South Carolina to Ohio, they moved several times between eighteen thirty nine and eighteen forty nine. The exact reasons for all those moves aren't clearly documented, but it was pretty common for past to move from one congregation to another for all kinds of reasons. The family's first move was to Covington, Kentucky, in eighteen thirty nine. Kentucky was a slave state and there were both pro and anti slavery factions in Covington. They were in Covington for less than two years before moving to Lebanon, Ohio, so a free state, but then five years later they moved to Georgia, a slave state, where Joseph served as pastor of the First Baptist Church of Savannah. In eighteen forty nine, they moved back to Robertville. When the family moved yet again to Portsmouth, Ohio, they were in a free state, but they were in a town that had a lot of Southern sympathizers. Although there are family stories about Adeline trying to teach enslave children to read in her youth and coming to oppost slavery as well. She also maintained strong Southern sympathies and clearly missed her plantation life in South Carolina and Henry Martin robert views on slavery are not specifically detailed in his public writings or in the papers that have been made available to historians and biographers. Yeah, I read a whole paper that was published back in twenty twelve that was like, his personal views on almost everything are a total mystery. And while there is a biography that came out after that paper was written, it also is not very specific about his views on pretty much anything. We'll talk about that a little bit more on the Friday Behind the Scenes. While the Roberts family was living in Portsmouth, Ohio, Henry Martin Roberts was appointed to the US Military Academy at West Point in New York, where he hoped to train as an engineer. He was sixteen, That made him one of the youngest cadets in his class. He graduated in eighteen fifty seven, and during his last year at the academy, he also served as a mathematics instructor. Math is, of course a huge part of engineering and a lack of mathema proficiency was one of the main reasons that cadets failed out of that course of study. Henry really excelled at math, though so much so that they had him teaching it before he had even graduated, and then he graduated fourth in his class overall. When he graduated, he became a second lieutenant in the Army Corps of Engineers, and for a year he continued teaching at West Point. I will say, if you can do your studies and have the job of teaching and still graduate fourth, I think you're terrifying as an achiever in a good way. After that, his first assignment was to Washington Territory. He set out on October third, eighteen fifty eight, taking a steamship south, crossing the Isthmus of Panama by train and making the rest of the voyage by sea. He contracted malaria while traveling across Panama, and he wasn't really given any time to recover. Once he arrived in Washington, he and his unit were immediately set to work building a road. The United States was at war with indigenous nations in the Pacific Northwest, and the Army Corps of Engineers was building roads and bridges and surveying for railroad lines to facilitate troop movements in that conflict. Yeah, that's not the only place that wars with indigenous people were going on, but he was. That's where he was located at that point. Robert's work building roads was disrupted by an incident we covered on the show almost a decade ago. That was the Pig War, and we will run that episode as a Saturday Classic, but briefly, because of some unspecific treaty language, the United States and the United Kingdom were both claiming to control San Juan Island, which is east of Vancouver Island and northwest of Seattle. On June fifteenth, eighteen fifty nine, an American named Lyman Cutler shot and killed a pig that was rooting through his crops. And this pig was the property of the Hudson's Bay Company, so this became an international incident. As this dispute escalated, Robert and a ten man engineering team were sent to the island to build fortifications in a camp along with a one hundred man army detachment. They built an earthen redoubt that was nicknamed Robert's Gopher Hole. In doing so, they totally changed the landscape of San Juan Island. Much of it had been covered by fir trees which were felled to build that redoubt, leaving a prairie behind. The Remains of this redoubt are still visible today. It's a National Historic Landmark that's part of San Juan Island National Historic Park. This redoubt is sometimes credited with helping to keep this standoff from turning into an active shooting war. It offered cover for cannons from an army steamer that had been dragged up a hill, so that made it possible for a very small American force to hold the island against pretty much any attack that the British could muster. But the building process for this did not go very smoothly. There was a lot of difficult, dirty labor, A lot of it was more physically grueling than the engineers were used to. The army detachment was simultaneously frustrated that Robert was not rationing out enough whiskey and also able to get access to enough illicit alcohol that drunkenness and misbehavior were ongoing problems. There were two mutinies, a court martial and at least one duel that had to be broken up. Eventually, President James Buchanan ordered General Winfield Scott to the island to try to restore calm. By that point, Robert's engineering team had finished the redoubt and were building other defenses and a larger camp. Scott ultimately negotiated a joint occupation of San Juan Island, so those defenses and camp facilities were no longer needed. Robert was sent back to the road project that he had been working on before the Pig War, but in April of eighteen sixty Robert asked to be relieved of duty. He was chronically ill and also frustrated by the work he was doing didn't really line up with what he had been studying at West Point or hoping to do. Another frustration was what he saw as a lack of discipline and protocol in the men who were serving under him. Initially, he did not get a response to this request, and he became very ill. A couple of months later, while trying to blaze a pack trail to Fort Vancouver, he finally received word that he could return to Washington, d C. Once he was relieved by another officer. That happened, and he left in September of eighteen sixty. That, of course, was not long before the start of the US Civil War, and we will get into that after we pause for a sponsor break. Brother against brother is one of the cliches that comes up a lot around the US Civil War, and the Robert family was one that really did have members on opposite sides. Henry Martin Robert's father, Joseph, stayed in the North, something that most sources attribute to his feelings on the issue of slavery. Henry's mother, Adeline, was more conflicted. She stayed with her husband, but she still felt a deep loyalty to her home state of South Carolina. She really hated being cut off from all of her family there because of the war. She was also terrified that her brothers, who joined the Confederate Army, would wind up facing her son Henry in combat because Henry remained with the United States Army.

Although South Carolina seceded from the Union over the issue of slavery, Henry Martin Robert's decision to remain in the US Army doesn't seem to have been about slavery at all, or if it was, that's not something that he left any kind of record of in the material that's been available to biographers and historians. Robert thought South Carolina did have the right to secede, but he also thought that if states seceded, they would eventually destroy themselves through factionalism and division. Like his mother, he felt a sense of loyalty to South Carolina, but he thought it was in the state's best interest to preserve the Union. Robert had actually been thinking about leaving the army before the Civil War started. He had been offered a job as a professor. He had also married Helen Marie Thresher in December of eighteen sixty. They had been courting for a couple of years, with a lot of that courtship happening through letters while he was in the Pacific Northwest. But when he heard about the Battle of Fort Sumter in April of eighteen sixty one, he ended his furlough a week early and he went to Washington, d c. He was promoted to first lieutenant and assigned to work under Major John G. Bernard fortifying the area around the capitol. Robert still had not fully recovered from malaria, though, and soon his illness was one again, affecting his ability to work, he was transferred to Philadelphia, where the work was expected to be less strenuous, and then in April of eighteen sixty two he was transferred again, this time to New Bedford, Massachusetts, where it was helped that the cooler climate would help him recover.

Although South Carolina seceded from the Union over the issue of slavery, Henry Martin Robert's decision to remain in the US Army doesn't seem to have been about slavery at all, or if it was, that's not something that he left any kind of record of in the material that's been available to biographers and historians. Robert thought South Carolina did have the right to secede, but he also thought that if states seceded, they would eventually destroy themselves through factionalism and division. Like his mother, he felt a sense of loyalty to South Carolina, but he thought it was in the state's best interest to preserve the Union. Robert had actually been thinking about leaving the army before the Civil War started. He had been offered a job as a professor. He had also married Helen Marie Thresher in December of eighteen sixty. They had been courting for a couple of years, with a lot of that courtship happening through letters while he was in the Pacific Northwest. But when he heard about the Battle of Fort Sumter in April of eighteen sixty one, he ended his furlough a week early and he went to Washington, d c. He was promoted to first lieutenant and assigned to work under Major John G. Bernard fortifying the area around the capitol. Robert still had not fully recovered from malaria, though, and soon his illness was one again, affecting his ability to work, he was transferred to Philadelphia, where the work was expected to be less strenuous, and then in April of eighteen sixty two he was transferred again, this time to New Bedford, Massachusetts, where it was helped that the cooler climate would help him recover.

He had an experience while living in New Bedford that later led him to study and write about parliamentary law. Although some of the details are fuzzy and some of the accounts of this are conflicting, there was a meeting. It was probably a public meeting, it was probably held at a church, and it was probably about the local defenses.

He had an experience while living in New Bedford that later led him to study and write about parliamentary law. Although some of the details are fuzzy and some of the accounts of this are conflicting, there was a meeting. It was probably a public meeting, it was probably held at a church, and it was probably about the local defenses.

If you are familiar with the form.

If you are familiar with the form.

Of governance known as the New England town meeting, meaning that rather than electing a representative government, the entire body of eligible voters acts as the town's legislature and open meetings. This was not that New Bedford was chartered as a city in eighteen forty seven, and by definition of open town meetings are four towns, not cities. So New Bedford had a mayor and a board of aldermen and a common council, but it could also convene more general meetings on matters of public good whatever the details of this meeting. Robert was elected to serve as its chair, maybe because he was there in his officer's uniform so he seemed like a logical person to put in charge. Some accounts say that this meeting went on for fourteen hours and was generally terrible, and others say that it actually didn't go all that badly, But Robert wasn't happy about it. He wasn't expecting to have to chair a meeting and didn't know what to do. In his opinion, his study at West Point and his army service had not prepared him for this at all. Some things he thought he needed to know but didn't know included which motions took precedence over others, which were debatable, and which could be amended. So he said, quote, I plunged in, trusting to providence that the ass Asembly would behave itself. But with the plunge went the determination that I would never again attend to any meeting until I knew something on the subject of parliamentary law. After this experience, he reportedly made himself kind of a little quick reference in case he found himself in this situation again, just a sheet of paper that listed out the types of motions that could be put forth during a meeting according to their rank, along with which of the motions could be debated or amended. He did not start working on the book that would become Robert's Rules of Order until a bit later, though. The first of Henry and Helen's five children was born on April eighteenth, eighteen sixty five. I was a daughter, also named Helen, and about four months later Henry asked for another transfer. He had been dealing with the effects of malaria at this point for more than five years, and he needed the help of aids to carry out his regular duties in the field.

Of governance known as the New England town meeting, meaning that rather than electing a representative government, the entire body of eligible voters acts as the town's legislature and open meetings. This was not that New Bedford was chartered as a city in eighteen forty seven, and by definition of open town meetings are four towns, not cities. So New Bedford had a mayor and a board of aldermen and a common council, but it could also convene more general meetings on matters of public good whatever the details of this meeting. Robert was elected to serve as its chair, maybe because he was there in his officer's uniform so he seemed like a logical person to put in charge. Some accounts say that this meeting went on for fourteen hours and was generally terrible, and others say that it actually didn't go all that badly, But Robert wasn't happy about it. He wasn't expecting to have to chair a meeting and didn't know what to do. In his opinion, his study at West Point and his army service had not prepared him for this at all. Some things he thought he needed to know but didn't know included which motions took precedence over others, which were debatable, and which could be amended. So he said, quote, I plunged in, trusting to providence that the ass Asembly would behave itself. But with the plunge went the determination that I would never again attend to any meeting until I knew something on the subject of parliamentary law. After this experience, he reportedly made himself kind of a little quick reference in case he found himself in this situation again, just a sheet of paper that listed out the types of motions that could be put forth during a meeting according to their rank, along with which of the motions could be debated or amended. He did not start working on the book that would become Robert's Rules of Order until a bit later, though. The first of Henry and Helen's five children was born on April eighteenth, eighteen sixty five. I was a daughter, also named Helen, and about four months later Henry asked for another transfer. He had been dealing with the effects of malaria at this point for more than five years, and he needed the help of aids to carry out his regular duties in the field.

He asked to.

He asked to.

Be sent to the United States Military Academy to teach instead, and this request was granted and he was put in charge of the Department of Practical Military Engineering at West Point, and he taught there until the autumn of eighteen sixty seven. That year, Robert was promoted to major and named Chief Engineer of the Military Division of the Pacific. He and the family moved to San Francisco, where they lived until eighteen seventy one. A lot of his engineering work from this point on focused on shorelines, rivers, and lighthouses, and he worked on some of the infrastructure around the Presidio in San Francisco. His time in San Francisco also included a lot of work with social, religious and reform organizations. He was on the board of trustees of San Francisco's first Baptist Church and on the board of directors at the YMCA. His work with the Baptist Church included establishing Sunday School for Chinese immigrants. This was about a decade before the passage of the Chinese Exclusion Act banned all immigration from China to the United States, and San Francisco had a significant population of Chinese workers, who were frequently the targets of racism, discrimination, and violence. He also served as treasurer of the Society for the Rescue of Fallen Women, which was a ministry that essentially tried to rescue women from sex work. Something Robert noticed while working with these and other organizations in San Francisco was that there were a lot of disputes and a lot of time spent in meetings arguing California had become a US territory after the Mexican American War ended in eighteen forty eight. It had become a state in eighteen fifty, so is still pretty new in terms of being part of the United States. A lot of people living there were relative newcomers from other parts of the US. People all had their own ideas about how to do things, and those ideas were informed by whether they had previously been living somewhere that had been colonized by Britain, France, or Spain, whether they had indigenous or African ancestry, what kinds of organizations they had experience with. People just all had different ideas of how to do things, and they wasted a lot of time arguing over the substance of their meetings, but also over procedural questions about how the meeting itself should be conducted. So Robert thought there really needed to be one uniform rule set which could be used all over the United States, so that as people moved around and tried to establish new organizations and tried to run meetings, they would at least all start out on the same page when it came to the way that the meeting should be structured and organized.

Be sent to the United States Military Academy to teach instead, and this request was granted and he was put in charge of the Department of Practical Military Engineering at West Point, and he taught there until the autumn of eighteen sixty seven. That year, Robert was promoted to major and named Chief Engineer of the Military Division of the Pacific. He and the family moved to San Francisco, where they lived until eighteen seventy one. A lot of his engineering work from this point on focused on shorelines, rivers, and lighthouses, and he worked on some of the infrastructure around the Presidio in San Francisco. His time in San Francisco also included a lot of work with social, religious and reform organizations. He was on the board of trustees of San Francisco's first Baptist Church and on the board of directors at the YMCA. His work with the Baptist Church included establishing Sunday School for Chinese immigrants. This was about a decade before the passage of the Chinese Exclusion Act banned all immigration from China to the United States, and San Francisco had a significant population of Chinese workers, who were frequently the targets of racism, discrimination, and violence. He also served as treasurer of the Society for the Rescue of Fallen Women, which was a ministry that essentially tried to rescue women from sex work. Something Robert noticed while working with these and other organizations in San Francisco was that there were a lot of disputes and a lot of time spent in meetings arguing California had become a US territory after the Mexican American War ended in eighteen forty eight. It had become a state in eighteen fifty, so is still pretty new in terms of being part of the United States. A lot of people living there were relative newcomers from other parts of the US. People all had their own ideas about how to do things, and those ideas were informed by whether they had previously been living somewhere that had been colonized by Britain, France, or Spain, whether they had indigenous or African ancestry, what kinds of organizations they had experience with. People just all had different ideas of how to do things, and they wasted a lot of time arguing over the substance of their meetings, but also over procedural questions about how the meeting itself should be conducted. So Robert thought there really needed to be one uniform rule set which could be used all over the United States, so that as people moved around and tried to establish new organizations and tried to run meetings, they would at least all start out on the same page when it came to the way that the meeting should be structured and organized.

He started reviewing the books that were already available about parliamentary laws, that is, the various rules protocols, standards, and points of etiquette that are used to govern meetings of legislatures or non legislative organistsations. Those non legislative organizations that conduct their meetings according to parliamentary law are often called deliberative assemblies. Robert intended for his work to be used by deliberative assemblies, not by legislatures. When Robert started this research, the major works on parliamentary law in the United States included Thomas Jefferson's eighteen oh one Manual of Parliamentary Practice and Luther S. Cushing's seventeen forty five Rules of Proceeding and Debate in Deliberative Assemblies that was more often known as Cushing's Manual.

He started reviewing the books that were already available about parliamentary laws, that is, the various rules protocols, standards, and points of etiquette that are used to govern meetings of legislatures or non legislative organistsations. Those non legislative organizations that conduct their meetings according to parliamentary law are often called deliberative assemblies. Robert intended for his work to be used by deliberative assemblies, not by legislatures. When Robert started this research, the major works on parliamentary law in the United States included Thomas Jefferson's eighteen oh one Manual of Parliamentary Practice and Luther S. Cushing's seventeen forty five Rules of Proceeding and Debate in Deliberative Assemblies that was more often known as Cushing's Manual.

Cushing's Manual was in pretty common use, but Robert really didn't think either of these works was well suited for non legislative bodies. Thomas Jefferson was Thomas Jefferson and Luther S. Cushing had been clerk of the Massachusetts House of Representatives, so both of their works were informed by working in legislatures. He also thought that these rules a lot of the time were too specific and too complicated for something like a non legislative local organization. And some of the rules just were not relevant to those kinds of organizations. He also got a copy of the Congressional Manual and John M. Barclay's Digest of Rules and Practices of the House, but again these were rules for legislatures. That wasn't quite what he wanted in the end. In eighteen sixty nine, he wrote a brief pamphlet of basic rules, which he had printed at his own expense and handed out to friends, family, and colleagues. He started working on a short manual that would be suitable for wider distribution, but he wasn't able to finish it before being transferred to Portland, Oregon, where he wound up being a lot busier with his engineering work than In late eighteen seventy three, Robert was sent to Milwaukee, Wisconsin to oversee the construction of lighthouses around Lake Michigan. When he got there at the very end of descem much of the lake was frozen and temperatures were well below zero fahrenheit. That put a stop to pretty much all of the work that had to be done outside. His wife and children also stayed behind in Dayton, Ohio for a while, and so this finally gave him time to really focus on his work on parliamentary law, and then he continued that work after the weather warmed up and his family got to Milwaukee.

Cushing's Manual was in pretty common use, but Robert really didn't think either of these works was well suited for non legislative bodies. Thomas Jefferson was Thomas Jefferson and Luther S. Cushing had been clerk of the Massachusetts House of Representatives, so both of their works were informed by working in legislatures. He also thought that these rules a lot of the time were too specific and too complicated for something like a non legislative local organization. And some of the rules just were not relevant to those kinds of organizations. He also got a copy of the Congressional Manual and John M. Barclay's Digest of Rules and Practices of the House, but again these were rules for legislatures. That wasn't quite what he wanted in the end. In eighteen sixty nine, he wrote a brief pamphlet of basic rules, which he had printed at his own expense and handed out to friends, family, and colleagues. He started working on a short manual that would be suitable for wider distribution, but he wasn't able to finish it before being transferred to Portland, Oregon, where he wound up being a lot busier with his engineering work than In late eighteen seventy three, Robert was sent to Milwaukee, Wisconsin to oversee the construction of lighthouses around Lake Michigan. When he got there at the very end of descem much of the lake was frozen and temperatures were well below zero fahrenheit. That put a stop to pretty much all of the work that had to be done outside. His wife and children also stayed behind in Dayton, Ohio for a while, and so this finally gave him time to really focus on his work on parliamentary law, and then he continued that work after the weather warmed up and his family got to Milwaukee.

Henry's wife, Helen, played a key part in this book. Henry had written out his rules of order, including rules for obtaining the floor and introducing business, types of motions and their order of precedence, committees, debates, voting, and officers, as well as some miscellaneous rules. But Helen pointed out that these rules were only really useful to someone who already knew how to run a meeting. People who were just getting started would want to know how to convene a meeting, how to call it to order, and what was supposed to happen from there.

Henry's wife, Helen, played a key part in this book. Henry had written out his rules of order, including rules for obtaining the floor and introducing business, types of motions and their order of precedence, committees, debates, voting, and officers, as well as some miscellaneous rules. But Helen pointed out that these rules were only really useful to someone who already knew how to run a meeting. People who were just getting started would want to know how to convene a meeting, how to call it to order, and what was supposed to happen from there.

Henry didn't want people to open the book and think it was all just basics though. He was trying to update and reform parliamentary law into something that could be used and endorsed by respected organizations all around the country. But he also saw his wife's point, and he wound up writing a second part to the book, titled Organization and Conduct of Business, to supplement the rules that were in the first part. The finished book was one hundred and seventy six pages long, and it was meant to be easy to carry around and use. In eighteen seventy five, he had this book typeset and four thousand copies printed, but he had trouble finding someone to bind and distribute it. Robert had written this book because he thought what was already available was inadequate, but publishers thought there was no way some random military engineer's parliamentary law book would supplant Cushing's manual. He finally worked out a deal with publisher s C. Griggson Company, in which Robert paid for almost all of the binding costs himself. Copies of the book were earmarked to give away eight hundred by the publisher and two hundred by Robert, and the publisher would pay Robert forty percent of the retail price of any of the other three thousand copies that were sold. The Pocket Manual of Rules of Order for Deliberative Assemblies, or just Robert's Rules of Order, sold for seventy five cents. They sent those thousand free copies to parliamentarians, schools, and organizational leaders all over the United States, and to book reviewers, and this book was very well received. In the words of A review in a San Francisco newspaper quote, it is less cumbersome than Jefferson, more American than Cushing, and better adapted than either to the common wants of the masses. A review in the Chicago Standard wrote, quote, a book more needed has not appeared in many a day. We are happy to find that this one meets the case so admirably.

Henry didn't want people to open the book and think it was all just basics though. He was trying to update and reform parliamentary law into something that could be used and endorsed by respected organizations all around the country. But he also saw his wife's point, and he wound up writing a second part to the book, titled Organization and Conduct of Business, to supplement the rules that were in the first part. The finished book was one hundred and seventy six pages long, and it was meant to be easy to carry around and use. In eighteen seventy five, he had this book typeset and four thousand copies printed, but he had trouble finding someone to bind and distribute it. Robert had written this book because he thought what was already available was inadequate, but publishers thought there was no way some random military engineer's parliamentary law book would supplant Cushing's manual. He finally worked out a deal with publisher s C. Griggson Company, in which Robert paid for almost all of the binding costs himself. Copies of the book were earmarked to give away eight hundred by the publisher and two hundred by Robert, and the publisher would pay Robert forty percent of the retail price of any of the other three thousand copies that were sold. The Pocket Manual of Rules of Order for Deliberative Assemblies, or just Robert's Rules of Order, sold for seventy five cents. They sent those thousand free copies to parliamentarians, schools, and organizational leaders all over the United States, and to book reviewers, and this book was very well received. In the words of A review in a San Francisco newspaper quote, it is less cumbersome than Jefferson, more American than Cushing, and better adapted than either to the common wants of the masses. A review in the Chicago Standard wrote, quote, a book more needed has not appeared in many a day. We are happy to find that this one meets the case so admirably.

Side note. One of the places that Robert sent free copies of his book was the seminary for Friedman, where his father worked. Henry's mother, Adeline, died in eighteen sixty six, so she never returned to the South after the start of the Civil War, but his father had moved south in eighteen seventy because of his health. He got a job at Augusta Bible Institute, which was one of several schools for free black people established by the American Baptist Home Mission Society. Joseph Thomas. Robert served as the institute's first president. It later moved to Atlanta, and in nineteen thirteen it was renamed Morehouse College. Robert sent the free books in eighteen seventy seven, when the institute was still in Augusta, Georgia.

Side note. One of the places that Robert sent free copies of his book was the seminary for Friedman, where his father worked. Henry's mother, Adeline, died in eighteen sixty six, so she never returned to the South after the start of the Civil War, but his father had moved south in eighteen seventy because of his health. He got a job at Augusta Bible Institute, which was one of several schools for free black people established by the American Baptist Home Mission Society. Joseph Thomas. Robert served as the institute's first president. It later moved to Atlanta, and in nineteen thirteen it was renamed Morehouse College. Robert sent the free books in eighteen seventy seven, when the institute was still in Augusta, Georgia.

We will talk more about his life and Robert's rules after a sponsor break Henry Martin. Robert had thought that those three thousand copies of his Rules of Order would last for two years, but they sold out in only six months. Even though he had no formal training as a parliamentarian. This meant that he was immediately seen as a big authority on parliamentary law. So many people wrote to him with questions, and some of those questions were very specific. He tried to individually answer all of these letters and also to use the kinds of questions that people were asking him to inform later revisions and updates to his rules. At the same time, though, he also encouraged the people writing him to adapt these rules to their circumstances and just to approach problems and disputes with common sense, patience, and understanding, rather than trying to rigidly adhere to rules for their own sake. Also, Robert's whole goal here was for people to be able to run their meetings efficiently and effectively, and to that end, he also wanted to write articles and other material about parliamentary law and to create a shorter version of his rules, specifically for churches. This led to a dispute with his publisher, who was afraid that if he kept reprinting the same rules in other publications, he was going to lose control over the copyright of his work. As Robert revised and added to his rules of order, he also continued to serve in the Army Corps of Engineers. In eighteen eighty nine, he was appointed to a board of engineers to select a site for a port on the Gulf of Mexico. The board selected the island of Galveston, Texas as the side of this port, and Robert worked on a series of jetties to change the way the river water moved through the gulf and to make the water deep enough for ships to be able to navigate over a sandbar. Robert's return home from Galveston was disrupted by the Johnstone flood on May thirty first, eighteen eighty nine. Was stuck on his train for two days and spent a week in Altoona, Pennsylvania before he was able to continue on. Prior host Sarah and Deblina covered the Johnstown flood on the show in twenty twelve, and we ran that episode as a Saturday Classic back in twenty eighteen, but briefly an earth and dam owned by the South Fork Fishing and Hunting Club failed, causing massive flooding and damage downstream and killing more than twenty two hundred people. This flood became notorious both for the catastrophic damage and death and because of survivor's lengthy and unsuccessful efforts to collect damages from the club, whose members included people like Andrew Carnegie, Henry Clay Frick, and Andrew Mellin. In February of eighteen ninety, Robert was named Engineer Commissioner for the District of Columbia. While he was in Washington, d C. He continued to focus both on his engineering work and on social reform. For example, he didn't think it was feasible to totally ban alcohol or sex work, but he saw both of them as the causes of various societal problems, so he wanted to limit and regulate them. Of course, this was something else in his life that was influenced by his own religious beliefs, and he also kept working on his rules and answering people's letters about them. This added up to a lot of work, and Robert left this role in October of eighteen ninety one after a doctor diagnosed him with neurasthenia brought on by overwork. By the following year, Robert's rules had been through twenty one printings, with more than one hundred and forty thousand copies in circulation, but salees started to drop in eighteen ninety three in the wake of the financial panic that year, and his publisher also went out of business. Then, on October tenth, eighteen ninety five, his wife Helen died suddenly of heart failure. Robert continued working, though, including on various defense projects, when the Spanish America War started in eighteen ninety eight. By that point he was getting close to the army's mandatory retirement age of sixty four. He turned sixty four on May second, nineteen oh one, and retired with the rank of brigadier general, and by that point had also been named Chief of Engineers. Robert had been awarded this promotion on April thirtieth, nineteen oh one, so just a couple of days before he retired, which had involved a considerable amount of jockeying. A few years before Chief of Engineers, William P. Craighill had retired, Robert and his friend and colleague John M. Wilson were the same age, with birthdays on May second and October eighth, respectively. In addition to being a few months older, Robert had seniority, and both men thought that when Craig Hill retired, Robert would be promoted, and then when Robert retired, Wilson would be promoted, so both men would retire with the distinction and benefits that came with the rank of brigadier general. Both of them were surprised when Wilson got the promotion instead. Wilson protested this decision and then spearheaded a whole campaign, complete with newspaper editorials and letters to President William McKinley, to try to get Robert promoted before his retirement. McKinley was reluctant to allow this because of the precedent that it would set, but ultimately Wilson did retire a few months early and Robert was promoted.

We will talk more about his life and Robert's rules after a sponsor break Henry Martin. Robert had thought that those three thousand copies of his Rules of Order would last for two years, but they sold out in only six months. Even though he had no formal training as a parliamentarian. This meant that he was immediately seen as a big authority on parliamentary law. So many people wrote to him with questions, and some of those questions were very specific. He tried to individually answer all of these letters and also to use the kinds of questions that people were asking him to inform later revisions and updates to his rules. At the same time, though, he also encouraged the people writing him to adapt these rules to their circumstances and just to approach problems and disputes with common sense, patience, and understanding, rather than trying to rigidly adhere to rules for their own sake. Also, Robert's whole goal here was for people to be able to run their meetings efficiently and effectively, and to that end, he also wanted to write articles and other material about parliamentary law and to create a shorter version of his rules, specifically for churches. This led to a dispute with his publisher, who was afraid that if he kept reprinting the same rules in other publications, he was going to lose control over the copyright of his work. As Robert revised and added to his rules of order, he also continued to serve in the Army Corps of Engineers. In eighteen eighty nine, he was appointed to a board of engineers to select a site for a port on the Gulf of Mexico. The board selected the island of Galveston, Texas as the side of this port, and Robert worked on a series of jetties to change the way the river water moved through the gulf and to make the water deep enough for ships to be able to navigate over a sandbar. Robert's return home from Galveston was disrupted by the Johnstone flood on May thirty first, eighteen eighty nine. Was stuck on his train for two days and spent a week in Altoona, Pennsylvania before he was able to continue on. Prior host Sarah and Deblina covered the Johnstown flood on the show in twenty twelve, and we ran that episode as a Saturday Classic back in twenty eighteen, but briefly an earth and dam owned by the South Fork Fishing and Hunting Club failed, causing massive flooding and damage downstream and killing more than twenty two hundred people. This flood became notorious both for the catastrophic damage and death and because of survivor's lengthy and unsuccessful efforts to collect damages from the club, whose members included people like Andrew Carnegie, Henry Clay Frick, and Andrew Mellin. In February of eighteen ninety, Robert was named Engineer Commissioner for the District of Columbia. While he was in Washington, d C. He continued to focus both on his engineering work and on social reform. For example, he didn't think it was feasible to totally ban alcohol or sex work, but he saw both of them as the causes of various societal problems, so he wanted to limit and regulate them. Of course, this was something else in his life that was influenced by his own religious beliefs, and he also kept working on his rules and answering people's letters about them. This added up to a lot of work, and Robert left this role in October of eighteen ninety one after a doctor diagnosed him with neurasthenia brought on by overwork. By the following year, Robert's rules had been through twenty one printings, with more than one hundred and forty thousand copies in circulation, but salees started to drop in eighteen ninety three in the wake of the financial panic that year, and his publisher also went out of business. Then, on October tenth, eighteen ninety five, his wife Helen died suddenly of heart failure. Robert continued working, though, including on various defense projects, when the Spanish America War started in eighteen ninety eight. By that point he was getting close to the army's mandatory retirement age of sixty four. He turned sixty four on May second, nineteen oh one, and retired with the rank of brigadier general, and by that point had also been named Chief of Engineers. Robert had been awarded this promotion on April thirtieth, nineteen oh one, so just a couple of days before he retired, which had involved a considerable amount of jockeying. A few years before Chief of Engineers, William P. Craighill had retired, Robert and his friend and colleague John M. Wilson were the same age, with birthdays on May second and October eighth, respectively. In addition to being a few months older, Robert had seniority, and both men thought that when Craig Hill retired, Robert would be promoted, and then when Robert retired, Wilson would be promoted, so both men would retire with the distinction and benefits that came with the rank of brigadier general. Both of them were surprised when Wilson got the promotion instead. Wilson protested this decision and then spearheaded a whole campaign, complete with newspaper editorials and letters to President William McKinley, to try to get Robert promoted before his retirement. McKinley was reluctant to allow this because of the precedent that it would set, but ultimately Wilson did retire a few months early and Robert was promoted.

A few days after his retirement. On May eighth, nineteen oh one, Robert married Isabelle Livingston Hoagland. They went on a honeymoon to Cuba, and after they got back, Henry started consulting as a civilian engineer. A massive hurricane had struck Galveston on September eighth, nineteen hundred. Past hosts covered this hurricane in an episode called Five Historical Storms that was also a Saturday Classic in twenty eighteen and again briefly. Galveston was on a low lying island and this hurricane caused a massive storm surge. More than six thousand people died, and the city faced immense damage. Henry Martin, Robert Alfred Noble, and Henry Clay Ripley were tasked with finding a way to protect the city, which they did by building a massive sea wall and raising the city. Robert also worked on a causeway bridge linking Galveston to the mainland. In nineteen eleven, the government of Mexico invited Robert to work on improvements to the port of Fronterra in the state of Tabasco, and Isabelle went with him. They did not get to see this project through to completion, though, due to the Mexican Revolution. Resident Porfirio Diaz was forced out of office on May eleventh, nineteen eleven. He went into exile and the Robertses went back to the United States. By this point, there had been a number of updates and reprintings of robert Truls of Order. The first one to be specifically framed as a revised edition came out in nineteen fifteen. In nineteen sixteen, Robert started work on a much longer work called Parliamentary Law, which he intended for the use of professional parliamentarians and people who taught parliamentary procedure. He also worked on a shorter training manual called Parliamentary Practice, which included lessons and drills. Parliamentary Practice was published in nineteen twenty one, and Parliamentary Law in nineteen twenty two. His wife Isabelle and daughter in law Sarah Corbin Robert were a very big part of getting these books written, as was their friend Mildred Anderson. And that was because at this point Robert was advancing in age, and he had developed cataracts and hearing laws, and he just needed people to help take notes and dictation as he wrote out this work. Henry Martin Robert died in Hornell, New York, on May eleventh, nineteen twenty three, at the age of eighty six. He was buried at Arlington National Cemetery. Robert's Rules of Order became the almost ubiquitous manual of parliamentary procedure in the United States. Not every organization uses it, of course, but there are still a lot of nonprofits, student governments, homeowners' associations, and other organizations that rely on it. This includes some legislative bodies, like some of the New England town meetings that we mentioned earlier. There's some suggestion that Robert's Rules of Order did more than just give existing organizations a formal framework on how to conduct meetings more efficiently and in a more orderly way, that it also inspired the creation of new organizations by providing a practical reference for how to do it. And the words of historian Don H. Doyle, writing an American Quarterly in nineteen eighty quote, Robert's remarkable achievement came about because his book both stimulated and fed a soaring popular demand for parliamentary law. It's definitely true that there was an explosion of organizations, especially organizations devoted to some kind of social or political reform, in the progressive era of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. In other words, after Robert's Rules came out, a lot of those letters Robert personally answered came from people who were trying to start or manage organizations for women's suffrage or racial equality, prohibition, and other social and political issues. For example, Carrie Chapman Kat once wrote to Robert to say that she had been running suffrage meetings with his rules for thirty years.

A few days after his retirement. On May eighth, nineteen oh one, Robert married Isabelle Livingston Hoagland. They went on a honeymoon to Cuba, and after they got back, Henry started consulting as a civilian engineer. A massive hurricane had struck Galveston on September eighth, nineteen hundred. Past hosts covered this hurricane in an episode called Five Historical Storms that was also a Saturday Classic in twenty eighteen and again briefly. Galveston was on a low lying island and this hurricane caused a massive storm surge. More than six thousand people died, and the city faced immense damage. Henry Martin, Robert Alfred Noble, and Henry Clay Ripley were tasked with finding a way to protect the city, which they did by building a massive sea wall and raising the city. Robert also worked on a causeway bridge linking Galveston to the mainland. In nineteen eleven, the government of Mexico invited Robert to work on improvements to the port of Fronterra in the state of Tabasco, and Isabelle went with him. They did not get to see this project through to completion, though, due to the Mexican Revolution. Resident Porfirio Diaz was forced out of office on May eleventh, nineteen eleven. He went into exile and the Robertses went back to the United States. By this point, there had been a number of updates and reprintings of robert Truls of Order. The first one to be specifically framed as a revised edition came out in nineteen fifteen. In nineteen sixteen, Robert started work on a much longer work called Parliamentary Law, which he intended for the use of professional parliamentarians and people who taught parliamentary procedure. He also worked on a shorter training manual called Parliamentary Practice, which included lessons and drills. Parliamentary Practice was published in nineteen twenty one, and Parliamentary Law in nineteen twenty two. His wife Isabelle and daughter in law Sarah Corbin Robert were a very big part of getting these books written, as was their friend Mildred Anderson. And that was because at this point Robert was advancing in age, and he had developed cataracts and hearing laws, and he just needed people to help take notes and dictation as he wrote out this work. Henry Martin Robert died in Hornell, New York, on May eleventh, nineteen twenty three, at the age of eighty six. He was buried at Arlington National Cemetery. Robert's Rules of Order became the almost ubiquitous manual of parliamentary procedure in the United States. Not every organization uses it, of course, but there are still a lot of nonprofits, student governments, homeowners' associations, and other organizations that rely on it. This includes some legislative bodies, like some of the New England town meetings that we mentioned earlier. There's some suggestion that Robert's Rules of Order did more than just give existing organizations a formal framework on how to conduct meetings more efficiently and in a more orderly way, that it also inspired the creation of new organizations by providing a practical reference for how to do it. And the words of historian Don H. Doyle, writing an American Quarterly in nineteen eighty quote, Robert's remarkable achievement came about because his book both stimulated and fed a soaring popular demand for parliamentary law. It's definitely true that there was an explosion of organizations, especially organizations devoted to some kind of social or political reform, in the progressive era of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. In other words, after Robert's Rules came out, a lot of those letters Robert personally answered came from people who were trying to start or manage organizations for women's suffrage or racial equality, prohibition, and other social and political issues. For example, Carrie Chapman Kat once wrote to Robert to say that she had been running suffrage meetings with his rules for thirty years.

At the same time, there have been increasing criticisms of Robert's Rules in more recent years. Although he wrote it for non legislative bodies, it was informed by existing rules for parliamentary procedure. Those had roots that mostly went back to the British Parliament. So this comes from a very Eurocentric perspective and from the rules of governing bodies that were made up exclusively of men at the time.

At the same time, there have been increasing criticisms of Robert's Rules in more recent years. Although he wrote it for non legislative bodies, it was informed by existing rules for parliamentary procedure. Those had roots that mostly went back to the British Parliament. So this comes from a very Eurocentric perspective and from the rules of governing bodies that were made up exclusively of men at the time.

Aside from that, even a brief overview of re Robert Rules can seem overwhelming to someone who doesn't already have a background in it, which can make meetings less accessible to newcomers. The twelfth edition of Roberts Rules came out in twenty twenty, and it is definitely not a pocket sized book. It's eight hundred and sixteen pages long, perhaps if you have very big pockets. Roberts Rules in Brief, which came out the same year as two hundred twenty four pages. There are various quick references in cheat sheets, but still all of this can just feel like a lot. It's also possible for people to use Robert Trulls in bad faith to get their own way or to silence people, especially if those other people that are being silenced are not as familiar with the rules. Some organizations instead focus on methods that emphasize consensus building and collaboration rather than formal rule sets, for things like introducing motions, controlling the floor voting, and determining when it is acceptable to interrupt the person speaking.

Aside from that, even a brief overview of re Robert Rules can seem overwhelming to someone who doesn't already have a background in it, which can make meetings less accessible to newcomers. The twelfth edition of Roberts Rules came out in twenty twenty, and it is definitely not a pocket sized book. It's eight hundred and sixteen pages long, perhaps if you have very big pockets. Roberts Rules in Brief, which came out the same year as two hundred twenty four pages. There are various quick references in cheat sheets, but still all of this can just feel like a lot. It's also possible for people to use Robert Trulls in bad faith to get their own way or to silence people, especially if those other people that are being silenced are not as familiar with the rules. Some organizations instead focus on methods that emphasize consensus building and collaboration rather than formal rule sets, for things like introducing motions, controlling the floor voting, and determining when it is acceptable to interrupt the person speaking.

At the same time. Some of the criticisms of are unfounded. For example, the US Congress does not use Robert's rules of order. Most legislative bodies, apart from things like New England town meetings, have their own specific rules. So if you are mad about something going on with the Senate or House rules in the United States, you're going to need to find somebody else to blame besides Henry Martin.

At the same time. Some of the criticisms of are unfounded. For example, the US Congress does not use Robert's rules of order. Most legislative bodies, apart from things like New England town meetings, have their own specific rules. So if you are mad about something going on with the Senate or House rules in the United States, you're going to need to find somebody else to blame besides Henry Martin.

Robert.

Robert.

He is not the cause of philibus. No, he did not make that happen in Congress. I have some listener mail to take us out.

He is not the cause of philibus. No, he did not make that happen in Congress. I have some listener mail to take us out.

Fabulous.

Fabulous.

This is from K and k wrote, Hi, Tracy and Holly, I always get excited for disease related episodes because it's something I've always found fascinating. In this episode, that episode, being the one on measles, turned out to be relevant to my academic life, which at the moment is the same as my life in general. I'm a PhD student in education and am at the stage of knowing enough about my dissertation topic to start info dumping at the slightest invitation, but not yet to the writing and dedicated research stage. I'm studying polio, specifically how it contributed to the formation of disabled identity in the United States, but also filling in some of the archival gaps what happened when someone who wasn't a middle class, white, urban educated nine to twelve year old got polio. As part of my information gathering, I'm working on a paper on schools as sites of healthcare, specifically how schools became trial sites for vaccines. So I was delighted to hear you discuss measles vaccine trials, and then immediately disgusted but not surprised, to hear that disabled children were used as guinea pigs. This happens over and over with medical advances, and it's horrifying and infuriating, so I really appreciate that you explicitly call out the horror and fury. Willowbrook is a notorious name in disability history. It was famously the subject of an expose film by a young GERALDO Rivera that exposed the deplorable and inhumane conditions of the institution, which led to public outcry and years of legal cases that eventually shuddered the institution. It comes up frequently in my disability studies courses, and every single time I have to brace myself because it's always worse than I remember. Thank you as always for the work you do, and so as not to end on a downer, here's some cats. My torty baby shark toposts will display her belly, but it is such a trap. The two babies on the tree are my cat nieces Pesto and Yoki the pastas or sisters from the same litter and are spoiled rotten by my sibling and sib in law.

This is from K and k wrote, Hi, Tracy and Holly, I always get excited for disease related episodes because it's something I've always found fascinating. In this episode, that episode, being the one on measles, turned out to be relevant to my academic life, which at the moment is the same as my life in general. I'm a PhD student in education and am at the stage of knowing enough about my dissertation topic to start info dumping at the slightest invitation, but not yet to the writing and dedicated research stage. I'm studying polio, specifically how it contributed to the formation of disabled identity in the United States, but also filling in some of the archival gaps what happened when someone who wasn't a middle class, white, urban educated nine to twelve year old got polio. As part of my information gathering, I'm working on a paper on schools as sites of healthcare, specifically how schools became trial sites for vaccines. So I was delighted to hear you discuss measles vaccine trials, and then immediately disgusted but not surprised, to hear that disabled children were used as guinea pigs. This happens over and over with medical advances, and it's horrifying and infuriating, so I really appreciate that you explicitly call out the horror and fury. Willowbrook is a notorious name in disability history. It was famously the subject of an expose film by a young GERALDO Rivera that exposed the deplorable and inhumane conditions of the institution, which led to public outcry and years of legal cases that eventually shuddered the institution. It comes up frequently in my disability studies courses, and every single time I have to brace myself because it's always worse than I remember. Thank you as always for the work you do, and so as not to end on a downer, here's some cats. My torty baby shark toposts will display her belly, but it is such a trap. The two babies on the tree are my cat nieces Pesto and Yoki the pastas or sisters from the same litter and are spoiled rotten by my sibling and sib in law.

Best K.

Best K.

Thank you so much K for this email, which also included some potential episode topics related to Kay's dissertation research. I very much appreciated this email. These kitty cats so adorable.

Thank you so much K for this email, which also included some potential episode topics related to Kay's dissertation research. I very much appreciated this email. These kitty cats so adorable.

The tummy trap them. I feel lucky because none of mine have a tummy trap. I've even our cat that came to us feral.

The tummy trap them. I feel lucky because none of mine have a tummy trap. I've even our cat that came to us feral.

Uh huh.

Uh huh.

If you can get your hand on his tummy, he's like, oh, relaxing. Yeah, and he's the one I would have thought would be setting the trap, but he doesn't.

If you can get your hand on his tummy, he's like, oh, relaxing. Yeah, and he's the one I would have thought would be setting the trap, but he doesn't.

Yeah. Both of ours do a thing where they flump over on their signs and they want to be petted kind of aggressively to me, like on the side slash slash belly area, and neither of them do the thing where they suddenly aggressively attack you. Uh. But they will sort of do a thing that is like a little bunny kick, but very lightly and like I'm putting my teeth on you. I'm not biting you. I'm just putting my teeth on you, which is sort of funny to me because it's like all of the motions of the tummy trap cat bitiness, but like in the most gentlest, delicatenest way. It's because they were raised together. Yeah, so they've taught each other to temper that behavior and be like no, no, if you're playing with me, you're playing with me. Yeah, don't be throwing those claws and teeth out. No, they're so good. This is why you should always get two kittens together. I feel strongly on this issue. Yeah, we intentionally when we got them, were looking at rescues and intentionally looking for a pair of kittens because we did not have any other cats in the house, because I had come to Massachusetts with a cat who had eventually passed away at the age of nineteen, and so since we had no other cats in the house, we definitely wanted two kittens together because it is definitely better for kittens to have behaviorally, it's so much other cats around, so much easier. They had also been taken care of by a foster family who, in my opinion, was really good. They also had other cats to sort of teach the kittens how to be.

Yeah. Both of ours do a thing where they flump over on their signs and they want to be petted kind of aggressively to me, like on the side slash slash belly area, and neither of them do the thing where they suddenly aggressively attack you. Uh. But they will sort of do a thing that is like a little bunny kick, but very lightly and like I'm putting my teeth on you. I'm not biting you. I'm just putting my teeth on you, which is sort of funny to me because it's like all of the motions of the tummy trap cat bitiness, but like in the most gentlest, delicatenest way. It's because they were raised together. Yeah, so they've taught each other to temper that behavior and be like no, no, if you're playing with me, you're playing with me. Yeah, don't be throwing those claws and teeth out. No, they're so good. This is why you should always get two kittens together. I feel strongly on this issue. Yeah, we intentionally when we got them, were looking at rescues and intentionally looking for a pair of kittens because we did not have any other cats in the house, because I had come to Massachusetts with a cat who had eventually passed away at the age of nineteen, and so since we had no other cats in the house, we definitely wanted two kittens together because it is definitely better for kittens to have behaviorally, it's so much other cats around, so much easier. They had also been taken care of by a foster family who, in my opinion, was really good. They also had other cats to sort of teach the kittens how to be.

Cats, how to be good citizens. They've taught them cat parliamentary procedure.

Cats, how to be good citizens. They've taught them cat parliamentary procedure.

Yeah, yeah, they know. They know which motions can be debated and amended. So anyway, thank you again so much for this email. If you would like to send us a note about this or any other podcasts or a history podcast at iHeartRadio dot com, we're on some social media at miss in History, Facebook, the x Thing, Instagram, is it right now? And you can subscribe to our show on the iHeartRadio app and wherever else you'd like to get your podcasts. Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Yeah, yeah, they know. They know which motions can be debated and amended. So anyway, thank you again so much for this email. If you would like to send us a note about this or any other podcasts or a history podcast at iHeartRadio dot com, we're on some social media at miss in History, Facebook, the x Thing, Instagram, is it right now? And you can subscribe to our show on the iHeartRadio app and wherever else you'd like to get your podcasts. Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.