Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello, welcome to the podcast. I'm editor Candas Cason, joined today as usual by start writer Josh Clark. Hey, Candice, Hey, Candice, who you're gonna vote for? I'm kidding. I wouldn't really ask you that, although I did hear recently that, um, there were some Hillary supporters who said that they intended to vote for Hillary in the general election. Have you heard about that? Um? No, I heard there were some Hillary supporters who were going to vote for McCain. Uh, and some who for who will vote for Obama too, sure, but there are some who plan on voting for Hillary. And of course you you say, why would you do that? That's a waste of a vote, right, sort of like a vote for someone like Bob bar someone who's not one of the teen major parties, right, or Ross Perrot, who I heard was considering throwing his hat in the ring. Why not? Well, that's that's a great question. I mean, is it a wasted vote? Um? I've spoken to my wife about this. Uh, she's voted third party before and I'm like, wow, you really wasted your vote, didn't you? And I think her response with something along the lines of, how is it wasting a vote when I'm voting for the person I want to vote for rather than voting for someone I don't really like to defeat someone I like even less. You know, it votes a personal it's a personal thing. It's not to be used strategically. So I see that, and you know, I my hat is off to the Hillary supporters who are going to vote for Hillary no matter what. You know, I they're gonna have to write her in. Um. But it kind of brings up this question of, you know, just how much does a vote count? Like, you know, there's been several instances in the history of the US where people have voted for one of the two major candidates and you know, one of them gets the most votes but still doesn't win the presidency. Uh, you were around in two thousand, right, Yes, Okay, I was just a baby, but I was here. Have you Do you know much about the two thousand election? Yeah? I do. Actually, it all boils down to the fact that Gore won the popular vote and by like half a million votes, which is pretty close because there's like a hundred million votes cast that year. And then Bush went on to when they vote from the electoral college. Yeah, and it's funny because predictions said the exact opposite would happen, that Bush would win the popular vote and Gore would get the votes from the electoral college. Yeah, because this is back before you know Gore was the environmentalist that he is, or at least as well known as the environmentalist that he Isn't I remember him being looked upon as fairly stiff. Uh. There's this great Simpsons episode where Lisa Simpson buys one of his books, and the information that his book has been purchased as transmitted to the White House. Somebody comes running and goes, Mr Vice President, someone actually bought your book, and he goes, well, this calls for a celebration. And he turns around and puts the needle on a record player and it's cool and the gang celebrate good times, and he goes, I will. So he's kind of a stuff shirt. So I'm surprised to get a popular vote, or of your that I liked him better. He was sort of a solid wall of man, and now he's got kind of yeah, and he's I don't know, I got a little softer. Well, you know that that two thousand election was determined by two lawsuits that were filed in Florida. Florida was the point of contention for the whole thing. Gore wanted a recount of the popular vote, and Uh Bush um didn't want one. So they sued one another, uh and sued the state of Florida because you remember, this whole box of votes went missing from the polling station to the counting station, right. Um. So there was a bunch of contention and everything. Finally the U. S. Supreme Court said, no, Florida, you can't extend the deadline for the votes to be counted, which meant that a recount wasn't possible. And you know, by proxy, Bush won the state and the election, which kind of leads me to my question, is it fact or fiction that my vote, your vote, anyone's vote doesn't really count. That's a really tough question, and thank you. I can't be miss history today. I think that that's really an ideological debate, and but I will be miss history for for a few minutes. Actually, I can't say whether I'll say it's faction. There you have it, it's faction. Um. It all boils down to the actual creation of the electoral college, and it wasn't something that we made up willingly. The framers of the Constitution put the electoral college in place, and it's sort of a compromise between essentially Congress designing the next president of the United States or a popular vote choosing the next president of the United States. And you have to, you know, sort of put the electoral college in context and think about the United States. It's as a nascent nation. And essentially the opinion among the framers of the Constitution was that people in general were not educated and informed enough back then to definitely before L. Gore invented the Internet, precisely to really make a good choice, a good, sound, informed choice for the president. There wasn't this widespread dissemination of information. You know. Today, you can go on the internet copyright al Gore. You can pick up a newspaper, you can download a podcast. There's so many ways you can find out, you know, what's really going on candidates. But back then they thought people you know, far flong across the coast wouldn't really know. So I can see this kind of necessary elitism right back then, Well I think that's a charged word. Maybe I don't know if I would say elitism. I would say, I mean they were doing this as the founding fathers, they were doing it as a fatherly gesture, and you would have to ask yourself, is that still impoor it in today? Is that? The second part of my question is is it anachronistic? I don't know. Again, I think that's a personal choice. I mean, do you honestly believe that everyone out there voting is making an affirmed choice, or do you think people are saying, well, I like Sarah Palin's hair, or I think that Barack Obama's kids are cuter. Yeah. And it does seem like, especially in the circus that the two thousand and eight uh elections become Uh it does. It does strike me that people are making kind of shallow judgments about candidates rather than on the issues. And I think a lot of that is coming from the candidates themselves. No one's willing to discuss the issues. Um. I was watching the Daily Show last night and they had a generic off on the topic of the economy, and they wanted to see who could be more generic, and uh, actually I think it was a three way tie between Obama, McCain and Biden and Sarah Palin actually came out sounding you know, the most specific. So, um, I don't think anyone's really discussing the issue. So how can a public be informed about where candidate stands on the issues if no one's discussing them at the same time, though, this electoral college that you're talking about, who who's who? Comprises that? How does that work? It's made up of electors and essentially each state has a number of electors that are equal to the number of representatives in the House, and then the number of senators representatives. Every state has two senators and then say a state head five representatives, they'd have seven electoral votes, right, okay, which means that it's a weighted system. If you're a state that has a greater population, you're going to have more, say, you know, as far as the electoral college vote goes. So that's why when candidates are out stumping, you hear them, you know, trying to win a state like Ohio or you know, it being really important for them to get the public riled up in California. Right, these are the states that have the most day, which could be fair or unfair depending on where you live. I mean, if you're a call Foreignia, and you may feel that you're represented. But if you live in a state with a very small number of electoral votes, you may feel that your vote really doesn't count. But it boils down to two different types of electoral votes, and the most popular one is called the winner take all system, and forty eight states use this. And essentially, when you vote in these states, you're casting a vote for the electors, and then the electors in turn cast their vote for the president. Okay, so it does because then you know you you've you've cast a vote for say the Republican, and you're actually voting for the elector right to vote for the Republican Canada, right, Okay, so if enough people elect the Republican, then that Republican elector goes to vote. And so it follows the popular vote, right most of the time. How when does it not when you have what's called a faithless elector, And this is when the elector casts a vote that's different from the popular vote. And most electors won't do this, and there are some states that actually have fines imposed to electors who do. I think North Carolina imposes like a ten dollar fine. But this is a state law and it wouldn't hold water against the constitutional law which says you can't do that. So again, I mean if elector, if an elector wants to be taken seriously and he or she is elected by the state party, they're probably going to stay true to that particular party line, but they could conceivably betray the vote of the people who cast the popular ballots. Yes, I got you. Now. The other system that's used, and just Maine in Nebraska is called the district system, and this one is like the popular vote. The elector follows the popular vote, so that one was a little bit more closely aligned. I understand, I understand. So I know two thousand wasn't the only election. There were three others as far as I understand, right. That was John Quincy Adams and eighteen Rutherford B. Hayes in eighteen seventy six, and Benjamin Harrison in eighteen eighty eight, all of whom were eventually elected by the electoral college instead of the popular vote. And you know, it's funny because today a lot of those presidents, maybe with the exception of Adams, there's sort of not inconsequential because I wouldn't say any of our presidents has been inconsequential. Everyone's done something to either get people riled up or pacify them or please them. But off the top of my head, you know, I can't name any great success that success is associated with those administrations. So I don't know. Who knows what would have happened if the popular voted one. Maybe the tides would have turned in some way for our nation. Maybe so maybe so that may have happened very recently too, You never know. And I mean what happens when there's a majority as well? I mean what happens when there's a tie in the electoral College, I should say, I mean there has to be a tiebreaker, right, yes, well sort of. Then the vote goes to the House of Representatives and that is sanctioned by the twelve and at the Constitution. And there have been two elections in history that have resorted to death and that was when Thomas Jefferson and Aaron Burr squared off in eighteen o one, victory went to Teach and then in eight when John Quincy Adams competed against Andrew Jackson, and it went to j Q Adams. So, so what happens in this instance, I mean, like if if there if the vote goes to the House of Representatives to pick the the president, I mean what happens that Does each state get it one vote basically yes, and then you just keep voting. If there's a tie, yes, I got you. Okay, all right, So this sounds a lot like um, like delegates at a at a party convention sort of. Yeah, And it's something I like to think of it in my mind as the People's Choice Awards versus the Academy Awards. You know, which is more prestigious. I think most of us would say the Academy Awards. You know, people get more gussied up for the oscars. You know, they're considered a little bit more formal. Um, But you know, who would you rather be thought more highly of? Your peers? The people who actually in your industry are a very well informed, very educated body of people who know your trade and say you're the best of the best. For this, I still say it's the latest and outdated. But thanks for clearing it up formula. Well, let our our listeners decide, of course. And in case you were wondering how many votes it takes to get the majority in the electoral cop Okay, how that you go ahead, go ahead, I just wanted everyone to know that I knew already. I know it's two hundred forty three. That's not right. I was just tested. And now everyone, now we have informed listeners. Go forth and vote, and remember there's no such thing as a wasted vote as their candice no. And you can read even more about votes and whether or not they're wasted when you read how the Electoral College works on how stuff works dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com. Let us know what you think. Send an email to podcast at how stuff works dot com. M

Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how Stuff Works dot com. Hello, welcome to the podcast. I'm editor Candas Cason, joined today as usual by start writer Josh Clark. Hey, Candice, Hey, Candice, who you're gonna vote for? I'm kidding. I wouldn't really ask you that, although I did hear recently that, um, there were some Hillary supporters who said that they intended to vote for Hillary in the general election. Have you heard about that? Um? No, I heard there were some Hillary supporters who were going to vote for McCain. Uh, and some who for who will vote for Obama too, sure, but there are some who plan on voting for Hillary. And of course you you say, why would you do that? That's a waste of a vote, right, sort of like a vote for someone like Bob bar someone who's not one of the teen major parties, right, or Ross Perrot, who I heard was considering throwing his hat in the ring. Why not? Well, that's that's a great question. I mean, is it a wasted vote? Um? I've spoken to my wife about this. Uh, she's voted third party before and I'm like, wow, you really wasted your vote, didn't you? And I think her response with something along the lines of, how is it wasting a vote when I'm voting for the person I want to vote for rather than voting for someone I don't really like to defeat someone I like even less. You know, it votes a personal it's a personal thing. It's not to be used strategically. So I see that, and you know, I my hat is off to the Hillary supporters who are going to vote for Hillary no matter what. You know, I they're gonna have to write her in. Um. But it kind of brings up this question of, you know, just how much does a vote count? Like, you know, there's been several instances in the history of the US where people have voted for one of the two major candidates and you know, one of them gets the most votes but still doesn't win the presidency. Uh, you were around in two thousand, right, Yes, Okay, I was just a baby, but I was here. Have you Do you know much about the two thousand election? Yeah? I do. Actually, it all boils down to the fact that Gore won the popular vote and by like half a million votes, which is pretty close because there's like a hundred million votes cast that year. And then Bush went on to when they vote from the electoral college. Yeah, and it's funny because predictions said the exact opposite would happen, that Bush would win the popular vote and Gore would get the votes from the electoral college. Yeah, because this is back before you know Gore was the environmentalist that he is, or at least as well known as the environmentalist that he Isn't I remember him being looked upon as fairly stiff. Uh. There's this great Simpsons episode where Lisa Simpson buys one of his books, and the information that his book has been purchased as transmitted to the White House. Somebody comes running and goes, Mr Vice President, someone actually bought your book, and he goes, well, this calls for a celebration. And he turns around and puts the needle on a record player and it's cool and the gang celebrate good times, and he goes, I will. So he's kind of a stuff shirt. So I'm surprised to get a popular vote, or of your that I liked him better. He was sort of a solid wall of man, and now he's got kind of yeah, and he's I don't know, I got a little softer. Well, you know that that two thousand election was determined by two lawsuits that were filed in Florida. Florida was the point of contention for the whole thing. Gore wanted a recount of the popular vote, and Uh Bush um didn't want one. So they sued one another, uh and sued the state of Florida because you remember, this whole box of votes went missing from the polling station to the counting station, right. Um. So there was a bunch of contention and everything. Finally the U. S. Supreme Court said, no, Florida, you can't extend the deadline for the votes to be counted, which meant that a recount wasn't possible. And you know, by proxy, Bush won the state and the election, which kind of leads me to my question, is it fact or fiction that my vote, your vote, anyone's vote doesn't really count. That's a really tough question, and thank you. I can't be miss history today. I think that that's really an ideological debate, and but I will be miss history for for a few minutes. Actually, I can't say whether I'll say it's faction. There you have it, it's faction. Um. It all boils down to the actual creation of the electoral college, and it wasn't something that we made up willingly. The framers of the Constitution put the electoral college in place, and it's sort of a compromise between essentially Congress designing the next president of the United States or a popular vote choosing the next president of the United States. And you have to, you know, sort of put the electoral college in context and think about the United States. It's as a nascent nation. And essentially the opinion among the framers of the Constitution was that people in general were not educated and informed enough back then to definitely before L. Gore invented the Internet, precisely to really make a good choice, a good, sound, informed choice for the president. There wasn't this widespread dissemination of information. You know. Today, you can go on the internet copyright al Gore. You can pick up a newspaper, you can download a podcast. There's so many ways you can find out, you know, what's really going on candidates. But back then they thought people you know, far flong across the coast wouldn't really know. So I can see this kind of necessary elitism right back then, Well I think that's a charged word. Maybe I don't know if I would say elitism. I would say, I mean they were doing this as the founding fathers, they were doing it as a fatherly gesture, and you would have to ask yourself, is that still impoor it in today? Is that? The second part of my question is is it anachronistic? I don't know. Again, I think that's a personal choice. I mean, do you honestly believe that everyone out there voting is making an affirmed choice, or do you think people are saying, well, I like Sarah Palin's hair, or I think that Barack Obama's kids are cuter. Yeah. And it does seem like, especially in the circus that the two thousand and eight uh elections become Uh it does. It does strike me that people are making kind of shallow judgments about candidates rather than on the issues. And I think a lot of that is coming from the candidates themselves. No one's willing to discuss the issues. Um. I was watching the Daily Show last night and they had a generic off on the topic of the economy, and they wanted to see who could be more generic, and uh, actually I think it was a three way tie between Obama, McCain and Biden and Sarah Palin actually came out sounding you know, the most specific. So, um, I don't think anyone's really discussing the issue. So how can a public be informed about where candidate stands on the issues if no one's discussing them at the same time, though, this electoral college that you're talking about, who who's who? Comprises that? How does that work? It's made up of electors and essentially each state has a number of electors that are equal to the number of representatives in the House, and then the number of senators representatives. Every state has two senators and then say a state head five representatives, they'd have seven electoral votes, right, okay, which means that it's a weighted system. If you're a state that has a greater population, you're going to have more, say, you know, as far as the electoral college vote goes. So that's why when candidates are out stumping, you hear them, you know, trying to win a state like Ohio or you know, it being really important for them to get the public riled up in California. Right, these are the states that have the most day, which could be fair or unfair depending on where you live. I mean, if you're a call Foreignia, and you may feel that you're represented. But if you live in a state with a very small number of electoral votes, you may feel that your vote really doesn't count. But it boils down to two different types of electoral votes, and the most popular one is called the winner take all system, and forty eight states use this. And essentially, when you vote in these states, you're casting a vote for the electors, and then the electors in turn cast their vote for the president. Okay, so it does because then you know you you've you've cast a vote for say the Republican, and you're actually voting for the elector right to vote for the Republican Canada, right, Okay, so if enough people elect the Republican, then that Republican elector goes to vote. And so it follows the popular vote, right most of the time. How when does it not when you have what's called a faithless elector, And this is when the elector casts a vote that's different from the popular vote. And most electors won't do this, and there are some states that actually have fines imposed to electors who do. I think North Carolina imposes like a ten dollar fine. But this is a state law and it wouldn't hold water against the constitutional law which says you can't do that. So again, I mean if elector, if an elector wants to be taken seriously and he or she is elected by the state party, they're probably going to stay true to that particular party line, but they could conceivably betray the vote of the people who cast the popular ballots. Yes, I got you. Now. The other system that's used, and just Maine in Nebraska is called the district system, and this one is like the popular vote. The elector follows the popular vote, so that one was a little bit more closely aligned. I understand, I understand. So I know two thousand wasn't the only election. There were three others as far as I understand, right. That was John Quincy Adams and eighteen Rutherford B. Hayes in eighteen seventy six, and Benjamin Harrison in eighteen eighty eight, all of whom were eventually elected by the electoral college instead of the popular vote. And you know, it's funny because today a lot of those presidents, maybe with the exception of Adams, there's sort of not inconsequential because I wouldn't say any of our presidents has been inconsequential. Everyone's done something to either get people riled up or pacify them or please them. But off the top of my head, you know, I can't name any great success that success is associated with those administrations. So I don't know. Who knows what would have happened if the popular voted one. Maybe the tides would have turned in some way for our nation. Maybe so maybe so that may have happened very recently too, You never know. And I mean what happens when there's a majority as well? I mean what happens when there's a tie in the electoral College, I should say, I mean there has to be a tiebreaker, right, yes, well sort of. Then the vote goes to the House of Representatives and that is sanctioned by the twelve and at the Constitution. And there have been two elections in history that have resorted to death and that was when Thomas Jefferson and Aaron Burr squared off in eighteen o one, victory went to Teach and then in eight when John Quincy Adams competed against Andrew Jackson, and it went to j Q Adams. So, so what happens in this instance, I mean, like if if there if the vote goes to the House of Representatives to pick the the president, I mean what happens that Does each state get it one vote basically yes, and then you just keep voting. If there's a tie, yes, I got you. Okay, all right, So this sounds a lot like um, like delegates at a at a party convention sort of. Yeah, And it's something I like to think of it in my mind as the People's Choice Awards versus the Academy Awards. You know, which is more prestigious. I think most of us would say the Academy Awards. You know, people get more gussied up for the oscars. You know, they're considered a little bit more formal. Um, But you know, who would you rather be thought more highly of? Your peers? The people who actually in your industry are a very well informed, very educated body of people who know your trade and say you're the best of the best. For this, I still say it's the latest and outdated. But thanks for clearing it up formula. Well, let our our listeners decide, of course. And in case you were wondering how many votes it takes to get the majority in the electoral cop Okay, how that you go ahead, go ahead, I just wanted everyone to know that I knew already. I know it's two hundred forty three. That's not right. I was just tested. And now everyone, now we have informed listeners. Go forth and vote, and remember there's no such thing as a wasted vote as their candice no. And you can read even more about votes and whether or not they're wasted when you read how the Electoral College works on how stuff works dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com. Let us know what you think. Send an email to podcast at how stuff works dot com. M