Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of I Heart Radio Happy Friday. I'm Tracy Vie Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. But here's a little behind the scenes, behind the scenes, behind the behind the scenes, behind the behind the scenes. As we are recording this three part episode on Jim Thorpe, we have some unresolved scheduling questions about how the episodes are going to fall across two weeks. So, um, we are Normally we would be like, ah, this is this, this is the ones that happened on Monday and Wednesday, but we're not actually sure. It's a mystery at this moment in time. Bump bump bum. So I I have had Jim Thorpe on my list for an episode for a really, really long time. I might have had him on my list actually before the two parter that we did on The fort Show Indian Schoolgirls basketball Team back in I think that was he definitely moved up the list as I was doing the research for that episode, because that is what I first learned about, um, all the all the stuff that Carlisle was doing to win football games that would later get written out of being within the scope of the rules, because there are just really was stuff that they were doing that fell under the umbrella of well, it's not against the rules. Specifically, nothing in the rule book says we can't shove the ball under somebody's jersey, right. I feel like I would have been better at sports and stuff like that. We're an option for me, yeah, yeah, um, yeah, the the whole. I don't know that I would have it in me to to do this as an actual episode because that, as I referenced way back in that that episode on the fort shot Indian School girls basketball team, like, I don't follow sports. I don't follow any sports. I don't understand football. I think I even said in that episode, like I don't know what the first down line means. And people have tried to explain the first down line to me, and it just it's just like it just falls directly out of my mind and I'm like, really, just told me how it works. I still don't understand so um, and that comes from having watched many years of football games as a member of the high school marching band. So I don't think I could really wrap my head around an episode on like the years of of evolution of of gridiron football rules, but it did go through phases where it was like, wow, these rules are injuring players to the point of death. We gotta fix that. Like that was a whole thread in part of that trajectory. Yeah, I'm not a big football person. My my very best friend is big into football all and it kind of becomes that thing where I like, not in support her, but I don't really know what she's talking about. Most of the time. I understand the rules of football, but it's just never been my game. More of a hockey person. But it is fascinating I had not realized until you had mentioned it a while back, like how some of these cockamami plays worked in an effort to gain an edge. I feel like today because we did grow up in such a time when the rules were already pretty well established and regulated. Right, there haven't been a lot of changes to football rules in our in our lifetimes. Like I was so raised in that whole like if you cheat, you're just cheating yourself and you have to play straight and fair, and like I'm like, I wonder if they ever did that. Like, yes, we got the advantage out of this, but it feels sneaky and not necessarily honorable. Well, and it that's really interesting to think about because one of the things that really clear about Jim Thorpe as like his father really raised his sons. Um I don't I have I know nothing about his relationship with his daughters whatsoever, but in terms of his sons, like he really raised them with a love of sports and a love of play, and a love of being fair and a sense that like in your games, you your behavior was sporting, you didn't do things that were unfair or illegal. And so I wonder how that messed with like Carlisle's trick plays while he was on that football team. I don't actually know, Yeah, I mean, I think it's worth noting. Right, obviously, the stakes of college football today are very different than they would have been then. So even though they did take it seriously in terms of wanting to be the best, it wasn't quite the same. I feel like there was more of a sense of play. And that's mentioned in in these players wanting to play literally in the sense of like playfulness rather than necessarily being like a driven like this is how we bring you know, money into the school. Even though that was part of it, not that the same level we're dealing with today in college sports, right right, So it may have felt a little less problematic because of that. Yeah. Yeah, so I am very excited to be sharing three parts on Jim Thorpe. Um. As I said at the top of the episode, that is not what I thought was going to happen when I sat down to turn my notes into an actual outline. Uh. And then I think it's like six PM or something, I sent you this note that was like, I have basically a one long ish but okay length part one, and then a part two that was literally twice as long. I got to figure out how to do this. Yeah. In the second part of our three part episode on Jim Thorpe talked about the twelve Summer Olympic Games, at which he was amazing. Uh, and then about how the A a U and the IOC took his medals away, which made me so angry. Yes, it was a piece of the story I knew was going to happen. It was like, it was not something that I was surprised to learn or anything like that. What did surprise me though, was I had taken all these notes for these episodes, and then I started working them into the actual outline to use for the episodes instead of just like half sentences that don't connect to each other. And when I got to this part, I got so angry and I was like, wow, I already knew this was coming. I took notes about it, I read all the things I knew about it before, but wow, I'm just livid at this moment. And then when we were recording the episode just now, we got to the part when we were just about to go into the sponsor break leading into the discussion of taking away his Olympic medals um, and I just I got really visc early angry, and I was like, Wow, this is apparently the thing that I am furious about today. There's a lot in these episodes to be furious about. To be clear, this early grabbed me today. Uh tempering that that visceral anger for me is a memory that this jogged of my mother, who was, I want to be charitable, a bit of a panicky person who would kind of like take a bit of information and gallop away with it thinking she had grasped the full thing and may or may not have, but I remember her invoking Jim Thorpe a lot when I was a kid, or when anyone else, uh, you know, when I did something or anyone else did something. Here's where it came up once and I just remember being like, huh um, I uh did a lot of stuff with drama in high school. I'm majored in theater and film study in college as well as English. But there was a point where another high school had hired me, I think, to do stage makeup for them for one of their plays, and my mom flipped out, and I mean, like we're talking like twenty bucks. It was next to nothing even then, and it was one of those things where she's like, you will never get a college scholarship for theater if you do this because Jim Thorpe and like she just like piled some things together that made her very panicky that I should never do any side hustle growing up, which you know I was doing all the time, because it would somehow come back to bite me in this way. So I don't know if this was a story that got told in her family a lot growing up or what, but she would literally invoke this. It's like a reason to never accept money for doing anything if you thought you ever wanted a scholarship. I remember being like you know, in in uh classroom assignments to like debate or to write a paper on a subject like I remember this subject of what counts as an amateur athlete being like thrown out as a topic a lot. Yes, um, And it was a lot of these same questions of like, if you get a full ride to go to college, does that are you a professional athlete? You know? Then that folds into all kinds of other things about how much money colleges make off of their athletes and whether those athletes are being appropriately compensated for any of that, like the whole huge thing. Um. But yeah, it's uh, it was part of just a whole big discussion of being like, you know, if you say this, if you say you can't, you can't be paid fifteen dollars of meal muddy a week in a totally different sport three years before, like you're putting big emits on who can compete in the Olympics, Like right, Well, and it becomes that thing of in my head, is this just the semantics issue? Like if they had just said this is your per diem, would all of that have not been a problem. Well, and there's also the idea of like amateur is that that's made up. It's made up, made up definitions and made up idea. Uh, it's you know, I get the fact that it's so connected to the International Olympic movement, but it's like also a term that people created to you know, apply to a specific thing that then was just enforced so differently for different players, especially in this story. Um, the the IOC and the a AU did not buy this argument of there were a lot of other people doing it who were doing it under pseudonyms, which which Thorpe was using his own name, so he was he was not disguising his identity. Um, like a lot of other people were getting away with it. And I totally see the argument of like just because everybody else is doing it doesn't make it okay. But then it's like, but everybody else is not being held accountable for it, only Jim Thorpe. So yeah, there's more on this in Part three. Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production of I Heart Radio Happy Friday. I'm Tracy Vie Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. But here's a little behind the scenes, behind the scenes, behind the behind the scenes, behind the behind the scenes. As we are recording this three part episode on Jim Thorpe, we have some unresolved scheduling questions about how the episodes are going to fall across two weeks. So, um, we are Normally we would be like, ah, this is this, this is the ones that happened on Monday and Wednesday, but we're not actually sure. It's a mystery at this moment in time. Bump bump bum. So I I have had Jim Thorpe on my list for an episode for a really, really long time. I might have had him on my list actually before the two parter that we did on The fort Show Indian Schoolgirls basketball Team back in I think that was he definitely moved up the list as I was doing the research for that episode, because that is what I first learned about, um, all the all the stuff that Carlisle was doing to win football games that would later get written out of being within the scope of the rules, because there are just really was stuff that they were doing that fell under the umbrella of well, it's not against the rules. Specifically, nothing in the rule book says we can't shove the ball under somebody's jersey, right. I feel like I would have been better at sports and stuff like that. We're an option for me, yeah, yeah, um, yeah, the the whole. I don't know that I would have it in me to to do this as an actual episode because that, as I referenced way back in that that episode on the fort shot Indian School girls basketball team, like, I don't follow sports. I don't follow any sports. I don't understand football. I think I even said in that episode, like I don't know what the first down line means. And people have tried to explain the first down line to me, and it just it's just like it just falls directly out of my mind and I'm like, really, just told me how it works. I still don't understand so um, and that comes from having watched many years of football games as a member of the high school marching band. So I don't think I could really wrap my head around an episode on like the years of of evolution of of gridiron football rules, but it did go through phases where it was like, wow, these rules are injuring players to the point of death. We gotta fix that. Like that was a whole thread in part of that trajectory. Yeah, I'm not a big football person. My my very best friend is big into football all and it kind of becomes that thing where I like, not in support her, but I don't really know what she's talking about. Most of the time. I understand the rules of football, but it's just never been my game. More of a hockey person. But it is fascinating I had not realized until you had mentioned it a while back, like how some of these cockamami plays worked in an effort to gain an edge. I feel like today because we did grow up in such a time when the rules were already pretty well established and regulated. Right, there haven't been a lot of changes to football rules in our in our lifetimes. Like I was so raised in that whole like if you cheat, you're just cheating yourself and you have to play straight and fair, and like I'm like, I wonder if they ever did that. Like, yes, we got the advantage out of this, but it feels sneaky and not necessarily honorable. Well, and it that's really interesting to think about because one of the things that really clear about Jim Thorpe as like his father really raised his sons. Um I don't I have I know nothing about his relationship with his daughters whatsoever, but in terms of his sons, like he really raised them with a love of sports and a love of play, and a love of being fair and a sense that like in your games, you your behavior was sporting, you didn't do things that were unfair or illegal. And so I wonder how that messed with like Carlisle's trick plays while he was on that football team. I don't actually know, Yeah, I mean, I think it's worth noting. Right, obviously, the stakes of college football today are very different than they would have been then. So even though they did take it seriously in terms of wanting to be the best, it wasn't quite the same. I feel like there was more of a sense of play. And that's mentioned in in these players wanting to play literally in the sense of like playfulness rather than necessarily being like a driven like this is how we bring you know, money into the school. Even though that was part of it, not that the same level we're dealing with today in college sports, right right, So it may have felt a little less problematic because of that. Yeah. Yeah, so I am very excited to be sharing three parts on Jim Thorpe. Um. As I said at the top of the episode, that is not what I thought was going to happen when I sat down to turn my notes into an actual outline. Uh. And then I think it's like six PM or something, I sent you this note that was like, I have basically a one long ish but okay length part one, and then a part two that was literally twice as long. I got to figure out how to do this. Yeah. In the second part of our three part episode on Jim Thorpe talked about the twelve Summer Olympic Games, at which he was amazing. Uh, and then about how the A a U and the IOC took his medals away, which made me so angry. Yes, it was a piece of the story I knew was going to happen. It was like, it was not something that I was surprised to learn or anything like that. What did surprise me though, was I had taken all these notes for these episodes, and then I started working them into the actual outline to use for the episodes instead of just like half sentences that don't connect to each other. And when I got to this part, I got so angry and I was like, wow, I already knew this was coming. I took notes about it, I read all the things I knew about it before, but wow, I'm just livid at this moment. And then when we were recording the episode just now, we got to the part when we were just about to go into the sponsor break leading into the discussion of taking away his Olympic medals um, and I just I got really visc early angry, and I was like, Wow, this is apparently the thing that I am furious about today. There's a lot in these episodes to be furious about. To be clear, this early grabbed me today. Uh tempering that that visceral anger for me is a memory that this jogged of my mother, who was, I want to be charitable, a bit of a panicky person who would kind of like take a bit of information and gallop away with it thinking she had grasped the full thing and may or may not have, but I remember her invoking Jim Thorpe a lot when I was a kid, or when anyone else, uh, you know, when I did something or anyone else did something. Here's where it came up once and I just remember being like, huh um, I uh did a lot of stuff with drama in high school. I'm majored in theater and film study in college as well as English. But there was a point where another high school had hired me, I think, to do stage makeup for them for one of their plays, and my mom flipped out, and I mean, like we're talking like twenty bucks. It was next to nothing even then, and it was one of those things where she's like, you will never get a college scholarship for theater if you do this because Jim Thorpe and like she just like piled some things together that made her very panicky that I should never do any side hustle growing up, which you know I was doing all the time, because it would somehow come back to bite me in this way. So I don't know if this was a story that got told in her family a lot growing up or what, but she would literally invoke this. It's like a reason to never accept money for doing anything if you thought you ever wanted a scholarship. I remember being like you know, in in uh classroom assignments to like debate or to write a paper on a subject like I remember this subject of what counts as an amateur athlete being like thrown out as a topic a lot. Yes, um, And it was a lot of these same questions of like, if you get a full ride to go to college, does that are you a professional athlete? You know? Then that folds into all kinds of other things about how much money colleges make off of their athletes and whether those athletes are being appropriately compensated for any of that, like the whole huge thing. Um. But yeah, it's uh, it was part of just a whole big discussion of being like, you know, if you say this, if you say you can't, you can't be paid fifteen dollars of meal muddy a week in a totally different sport three years before, like you're putting big emits on who can compete in the Olympics, Like right, Well, and it becomes that thing of in my head, is this just the semantics issue? Like if they had just said this is your per diem, would all of that have not been a problem. Well, and there's also the idea of like amateur is that that's made up. It's made up, made up definitions and made up idea. Uh, it's you know, I get the fact that it's so connected to the International Olympic movement, but it's like also a term that people created to you know, apply to a specific thing that then was just enforced so differently for different players, especially in this story. Um, the the IOC and the a AU did not buy this argument of there were a lot of other people doing it who were doing it under pseudonyms, which which Thorpe was using his own name, so he was he was not disguising his identity. Um, like a lot of other people were getting away with it. And I totally see the argument of like just because everybody else is doing it doesn't make it okay. But then it's like, but everybody else is not being held accountable for it, only Jim Thorpe. So yeah, there's more on this in Part three. Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.