Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class a production of I Heart Radio, Hello and Happy Friday and Holly Fry and I'm Tracy Vie Wilson. We talked about monarch butterflies this week. We did, and I didn't once drop into my ten year old child self and talk ad nauseam about the Monarch from Venture Brothers, which is one of my favorite animated shows, and the Monarch as a villain question Mark is a spectacular and very fun character that show, obviously a little more adult in theme, but really really wonderful. And they do have a whole thing about milkweed on one of the episode and how the monarch became the Monarch who I want, I won't do. His voice is pretty great. But this is one of those things that I am curious about and I'm gonna kind of crowdsource from listeners if they're interested in participating, because Tracy, I bet you like me, probably at some point in elementary school went to see like a monarch chrysalis situation on a field trip, or they came to you in some way. Yeah. So I remember this in two different places, and one was we had a place that at the time was called the Nature Science Center, which was a you know, nature museum type place aimed at children. Uh and I so I remember there they would have like the little stem of milkweed with a little chrystals on it, and you could see what was going on with lots of interpretive signs about butterflies. But then I also remember something that probably was like ordered from a science supply store or something that was like a little classroom, tiny little terrarium type ing in the classroom. Yeah, I am wondering, and my question to listeners, if anybody has insight, is whether or not they're doing those field trips these days, even like pre pandemic, because I feel like there are so many more digital resources than we I mean, we didn't have digital resources when we were in elementary school. So I'm wondering if there's still that kind of like in person learning experience or if um that's transition more to to digital and online stuff. I do know that EPCOT during it during Flower and Garden Festival returing Food and Wine Festival, Epcott at one point during the year does do like a monarch garden, and they'll sometimes have a little roosting area that you can go look at but I think that's a it would be hard to plan for it. You got to kind of catch the right time by accident. But yeah, so I'm curious if you have have kiddos that are elementary school age and they have done uh Monarch, you know study, what if if they're still doing in person or if they are as I suspect possibly many doing online these days. They're so beautiful. I love them so much. One of my favorite running outfits was the dress that I painted to look like a giant monarch butterfly, because I am ridiculous. Um. I also wanted to mention there was an interesting thing about Catesby's two volume work UH Natural History, and his why it took him twenty years to get the second volume out and a pretty long time to get the first volume out and it didn't merit inclusion. We already included a lot of biographical information about people to kind of give timeline context, and I didn't want to keep getting bogged down in that. But when he came back, even though the Royal Society had paid for all of it, they didn't like pay for his book to be made. And he was very much a hands on per person and he did not have the funds to like pay a printer the normal going rate to get his book published. So he learned the book publishing process himself, like how to do book plates, how to do everything. Some of that delay is a learning curve for him, and then he sold it via subscription model. It was like the original indiego go or go fund me kind of thing where if it meets its goal, I could publish this book. I just thought that was all very fascinating. Yeah, We've talked about various people that have like like the model of getting subscribers to get your book rented, but not the learning how to do it yourself part. I'm gonna learn how to run a press. I'm gonna figure out it appeals to my soul that that kind of that kind of d I Y approach. Yeah, And I'm just thinking about we were was it when we were in I don't know. It was on our West Coast tour there was a book binder museum that I went to and I was literally the only person in the museum, so I basically got like a just by myself guided tour of the whole place. U there are a lot of steps in book binding methods that involved urine. So if you're not schooled in the usage of all of the urine parts, that seems like it might be particularly unpleasant. There's some there's a lot of work in the whole thing, So hats off to you, Mr Catesby in history for learning how to do all of that yourself. Um. This was a really interesting one because I knew about Catalina's story. She since remarried and she has a different last name. I didn't include it in the episode because, as we mentioned, like while she has done some stuff and she has worked with some conservation groups and butterfly in interest groups, she's not a big like I to be out there in the public eye person, which is why I did not include her current last name, even though it's not hard to find. Um, and I want her to have credit for what she did, but I also want to make sure you know you and I normally would not include a person who is still alive in the podcast. She's an outlier in that regard, so I wanted to be as like hyper respectful of her privacy. Yeah, we have still living people that come up from time to time, but a lot of times they are still living people. Who are like a lot more publicly visible then she is, and so if so and so is a leading academic researcher who does public history all the time. Bl blah blah blah. Like that's a different situation from like a private citizen who was maintaining a pretty private life at this point. Yeah, she has, he said in interviews like, I like, I like my quiet life. Yeah, and I don't want to mess with that. Um. I did notice there was an interview she did with a butterfly group where someone was asking how she viewed this whole thing, and she is saying, you know, people got it wrong for so long and it's getting better. But also I'm I'm obviously not directly quoting, but basically like, because there have now been decades of misinformation, it's really hard to course correct for a lot of it, which is just an interesting thing to consider. It's kind of like, I mean, I wanted to include that aspect of it because we talk all the time about how, you know, there are versions of history that get completely inadvertently even or vertent lye I don't know, um, you know, kind of written in a way that eliminates key elements or key people in them, and that was one and it was the same reason that I wanted to include that discussion of the fact that Petiver getting all of his amazing samples, which are lauded still as being like such an incredible collection, it's tied to really nefarious and not not rosy and delightful people history. Yeah. Um. We always joked that every piece of history we talked about is we always discover is trace back to racism and slavery in many cases. But I really had not thought about how much naturalist and biological history and our knowledge was tied to the slave trade until I read that paper, and then I was like, oh yeah, and also in other parts of the world like colonialism and right, yeah, yeah, yeah. The good news is you can grow milk wheed at home, um, which I ordered a bunch of And I literally while I was working on this, I texted a bunch of my friends. It was basically like, by the way, you're all going to start growing milk wheat. I already ordered seeds for everybody to be bossy, but the butterflies need us. Um. I have had various stabs at growing uh flowers and nectar plants for insects here in my yard with varying degrees with success. But one of the things that I will say, and if you if you go check out um Monarch joint Venture dot org, which we mentioned at the end of the podcast, they will link you to resources. But one of the things that I did read multiple times is that you should get local milkweed, like the milkweed that naturally grows in your area, because a lot of places sell tropical milkweed that will actually confuse sometimes insects into thinking it's not time to move on. I don't know if that's true. I'm not an entomologist, but definitely like local is always better for your area if you're trying to participate in a project like this um so it's easy Piecy. You'll have some fun flowers and then maybe you'll also get cute visitors who doesn't want that. Yeah, it's interesting. One of the things that came up in several articles, particularly in this last week where the extinction endangered species listing was made UH is that several people in the science community have noted like this is one of the first species that a lot of people in North America feel a natural connection to because they see them in their yards. So hopefully the hope is that one people will want to do, like take those simple steps of like growing local flowering plants so that insects in your area that are important to the whole biosphere of your area will continue to thrive, but also that it will kind of help people make a bigger connection to conservation and to making bigger efforts towards conservation of species that that they maybe don't have that personal connection to. So that is my my hope, my hope, my hope. If you start growing milkweed, send us pictures, tell us all about it and about your success, because I'm very curious. Um, I hope we all do such things because I think that would be great. It's easy. You can even do it in a planter. You don't have to have a big tract of lamp. So hopefully will all improve things and the butterflies will bounce back. I hope. Oh, Tracy, we talked about Luigi this week. He was tricky for me in some ways, which you discovered. There were parts where I had started a sentence and just vanished during that because I could there were things about his life that I did not know how to describe in a way that would be appropriate for our show, because he was, as we talked about, a womanizer in a way that had some very misogynist leanings. UM like. He at one point in his autobiography talked about um offering lessons to women who wanted to take photography lessons for their hobby, and he wrote about them, quote, any woman who takes up photography as a hobby has something emotionally lacking in her life. She must be emotionally starved as I was. So it's like this one too punch where he's like, you wouldn't do this unless you you needed a thrill. But I also understand because I needed a thrill. Like it's a little He always has this kind of duality where he is self deprecating at the same time he's insulting other people, and I think in his head that makes it okay. Um. I was pleasantly surprised though about the ways that he championed in his writing, like not making spectacles out of people who were different. He had this very personal sense of right and wrong, and he relays this one story in his his autobiography where he was asked for photos of what this editor from another magazine that was not New York called Abnormal Fellows, and what he meant was men who wore women's clothing and in it. In it, we Gi said that he called that editor and said, you're not getting the pictures. What's abnormal to you is completely normal to me. Like he just was like, no, I'm not going to exploit somebody for your thing. So he had this voyeuristic tendency, but he was also really weirdly protective of of people in the fringe of society. It's very, very fascinating. The New Yorker had to write up about him, in which they they put it succinctly and much better than I could, where they described him as both exploitative and humane, which is a weird, a weird combo, but it's part of what makes him so fascinating to me. We mentioned his photos of doctor Strange Love, and if you are doing calendar math, you may go, wait a minute. Strange Love didn't come out until the nineteen sixties. I don't know what the scoop is there. It is always specifically mentioned as a thing that happened when he was in Hollywood, but he was back in New York before that. Happened, So I don't know if it's like a thing where And I saw that reported in multiple places, so I wanted to mention it here because it is a little bit weird. I'm not sure what the scoop is there, unless he just got called back by Kubrick for that. There's also an interesting side story story about his life that when he was working in Acne, he was also a fiddle player, and he started playing in a movie theater orchestra huh for a while, and that he hated talkies because once they became a thing and sound attached to picture was more common, he couldn't do that job anymore, which he apparently really loved, and he claimed that he always hated talkies for the rest of his night. I mean that seems like a logical grudge to hold. Yeah, one other thing I wanted to mention because I'm sure someone will ask he was Jewish. We didn't mention it in the show because it's kind of like when we talked about Theodo Vera, he would say things like, oh, I took this holiday off, but he never talked about actually observing any religious practices. It's unclear how connected he was to that as part of his identity versus like those just being the few days he would take off a year because he was a workaholic without question. You know. He he both wrote about himself and it's corroborated by other accounts that like there would be times when, for example, like a gangster was expected to be arrested, and so Press would start to camp out around that person's apartment building and the other guys would take shifts, and Luigi would just stay the whole time, Like even if it took three days, he would not leave. Um, so he kind of had a his circadian rhythms were different than everyone else's. I'll just he could not handle the nine to five day job situation. Uh. The other fun factoried about him is that he estimates that in his time at ACME, he took photographs of more than five thousand murders, which is a lot. That's so many, it is so many have conflicted feelings about all the crime scene photography. Yeah, it's um, I mean it's like it's like we said, he could be very exploitative and also very humane. It's it's really interesting to me, especially like when you see the ways he took those pictures is usually pretty unromanticized. Right, it is a straight photo of like a corpse on the ground. And then when he takes pictures of people that were often outsiders, there is often a little bit more of a loving warmer set up to them, which you can see, like he feels a greater connection to outsiders. Right. He even talks about like what other people found beautiful. He rarely did. Like he talked when he was at Vogue about finding models kind of like just weird. He didn't understand them, they didn't seem to understand themselves. In his opinion, he didn't find anything attractive about a model. But he was perfectly happy to like meet girls on the street and just be like, you want to get in my car and then they would drive around for a while and maybe hook up. It's a little bit of a a strange thing, you know, Uigi. Some of his pictures are so beautiful, some are so upsetting. There's everything in between. If you go looking, know that you're probably going to see some blood at minimum. Yeah. I find the really distorted ones um un nerving. I don't love them, but I don't know if it's because I, you know, grew up and came to be interested in photography and art at a time when he had been so much before that. I had already seen that kind of photo playing and editing kind of played out like to the point where when I find it, when I actually realized that I was looking at his work, I was like seeing it. I mean, he you know, his pictures of New York at night are the real, are the real, like meat and potatoes of his his work, and really like the ones that I think most people find the most engaging versus his later stuff where he was kind of it seems much more purposely trying to figure out new ways to make pictures and to make them interesting, versus just capturing what was interesting about any given scene on its own. Anyway, that was weechie. If you have time off this weekend, I hope you look at some good art. It's just good for your soul. If you don't have time off, I'm sorry, and I hope that it is as RESTful as can being. That you do find some moments of sawace, look at some pretty art that makes you happy. Um, and I hope all of your responsibilities play out as beautifully and ideally as possible. Everybody be good to each other. You will find us right back here tomorrow with a classic, and then starting on Monday, we'll have new stuff for you. Stuff you missed in History Class is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class a production of I Heart Radio, Hello and Happy Friday and Holly Fry and I'm Tracy Vie Wilson. We talked about monarch butterflies this week. We did, and I didn't once drop into my ten year old child self and talk ad nauseam about the Monarch from Venture Brothers, which is one of my favorite animated shows, and the Monarch as a villain question Mark is a spectacular and very fun character that show, obviously a little more adult in theme, but really really wonderful. And they do have a whole thing about milkweed on one of the episode and how the monarch became the Monarch who I want, I won't do. His voice is pretty great. But this is one of those things that I am curious about and I'm gonna kind of crowdsource from listeners if they're interested in participating, because Tracy, I bet you like me, probably at some point in elementary school went to see like a monarch chrysalis situation on a field trip, or they came to you in some way. Yeah. So I remember this in two different places, and one was we had a place that at the time was called the Nature Science Center, which was a you know, nature museum type place aimed at children. Uh and I so I remember there they would have like the little stem of milkweed with a little chrystals on it, and you could see what was going on with lots of interpretive signs about butterflies. But then I also remember something that probably was like ordered from a science supply store or something that was like a little classroom, tiny little terrarium type ing in the classroom. Yeah, I am wondering, and my question to listeners, if anybody has insight, is whether or not they're doing those field trips these days, even like pre pandemic, because I feel like there are so many more digital resources than we I mean, we didn't have digital resources when we were in elementary school. So I'm wondering if there's still that kind of like in person learning experience or if um that's transition more to to digital and online stuff. I do know that EPCOT during it during Flower and Garden Festival returing Food and Wine Festival, Epcott at one point during the year does do like a monarch garden, and they'll sometimes have a little roosting area that you can go look at but I think that's a it would be hard to plan for it. You got to kind of catch the right time by accident. But yeah, so I'm curious if you have have kiddos that are elementary school age and they have done uh Monarch, you know study, what if if they're still doing in person or if they are as I suspect possibly many doing online these days. They're so beautiful. I love them so much. One of my favorite running outfits was the dress that I painted to look like a giant monarch butterfly, because I am ridiculous. Um. I also wanted to mention there was an interesting thing about Catesby's two volume work UH Natural History, and his why it took him twenty years to get the second volume out and a pretty long time to get the first volume out and it didn't merit inclusion. We already included a lot of biographical information about people to kind of give timeline context, and I didn't want to keep getting bogged down in that. But when he came back, even though the Royal Society had paid for all of it, they didn't like pay for his book to be made. And he was very much a hands on per person and he did not have the funds to like pay a printer the normal going rate to get his book published. So he learned the book publishing process himself, like how to do book plates, how to do everything. Some of that delay is a learning curve for him, and then he sold it via subscription model. It was like the original indiego go or go fund me kind of thing where if it meets its goal, I could publish this book. I just thought that was all very fascinating. Yeah, We've talked about various people that have like like the model of getting subscribers to get your book rented, but not the learning how to do it yourself part. I'm gonna learn how to run a press. I'm gonna figure out it appeals to my soul that that kind of that kind of d I Y approach. Yeah, And I'm just thinking about we were was it when we were in I don't know. It was on our West Coast tour there was a book binder museum that I went to and I was literally the only person in the museum, so I basically got like a just by myself guided tour of the whole place. U there are a lot of steps in book binding methods that involved urine. So if you're not schooled in the usage of all of the urine parts, that seems like it might be particularly unpleasant. There's some there's a lot of work in the whole thing, So hats off to you, Mr Catesby in history for learning how to do all of that yourself. Um. This was a really interesting one because I knew about Catalina's story. She since remarried and she has a different last name. I didn't include it in the episode because, as we mentioned, like while she has done some stuff and she has worked with some conservation groups and butterfly in interest groups, she's not a big like I to be out there in the public eye person, which is why I did not include her current last name, even though it's not hard to find. Um, and I want her to have credit for what she did, but I also want to make sure you know you and I normally would not include a person who is still alive in the podcast. She's an outlier in that regard, so I wanted to be as like hyper respectful of her privacy. Yeah, we have still living people that come up from time to time, but a lot of times they are still living people. Who are like a lot more publicly visible then she is, and so if so and so is a leading academic researcher who does public history all the time. Bl blah blah blah. Like that's a different situation from like a private citizen who was maintaining a pretty private life at this point. Yeah, she has, he said in interviews like, I like, I like my quiet life. Yeah, and I don't want to mess with that. Um. I did notice there was an interview she did with a butterfly group where someone was asking how she viewed this whole thing, and she is saying, you know, people got it wrong for so long and it's getting better. But also I'm I'm obviously not directly quoting, but basically like, because there have now been decades of misinformation, it's really hard to course correct for a lot of it, which is just an interesting thing to consider. It's kind of like, I mean, I wanted to include that aspect of it because we talk all the time about how, you know, there are versions of history that get completely inadvertently even or vertent lye I don't know, um, you know, kind of written in a way that eliminates key elements or key people in them, and that was one and it was the same reason that I wanted to include that discussion of the fact that Petiver getting all of his amazing samples, which are lauded still as being like such an incredible collection, it's tied to really nefarious and not not rosy and delightful people history. Yeah. Um. We always joked that every piece of history we talked about is we always discover is trace back to racism and slavery in many cases. But I really had not thought about how much naturalist and biological history and our knowledge was tied to the slave trade until I read that paper, and then I was like, oh yeah, and also in other parts of the world like colonialism and right, yeah, yeah, yeah. The good news is you can grow milk wheed at home, um, which I ordered a bunch of And I literally while I was working on this, I texted a bunch of my friends. It was basically like, by the way, you're all going to start growing milk wheat. I already ordered seeds for everybody to be bossy, but the butterflies need us. Um. I have had various stabs at growing uh flowers and nectar plants for insects here in my yard with varying degrees with success. But one of the things that I will say, and if you if you go check out um Monarch joint Venture dot org, which we mentioned at the end of the podcast, they will link you to resources. But one of the things that I did read multiple times is that you should get local milkweed, like the milkweed that naturally grows in your area, because a lot of places sell tropical milkweed that will actually confuse sometimes insects into thinking it's not time to move on. I don't know if that's true. I'm not an entomologist, but definitely like local is always better for your area if you're trying to participate in a project like this um so it's easy Piecy. You'll have some fun flowers and then maybe you'll also get cute visitors who doesn't want that. Yeah, it's interesting. One of the things that came up in several articles, particularly in this last week where the extinction endangered species listing was made UH is that several people in the science community have noted like this is one of the first species that a lot of people in North America feel a natural connection to because they see them in their yards. So hopefully the hope is that one people will want to do, like take those simple steps of like growing local flowering plants so that insects in your area that are important to the whole biosphere of your area will continue to thrive, but also that it will kind of help people make a bigger connection to conservation and to making bigger efforts towards conservation of species that that they maybe don't have that personal connection to. So that is my my hope, my hope, my hope. If you start growing milkweed, send us pictures, tell us all about it and about your success, because I'm very curious. Um, I hope we all do such things because I think that would be great. It's easy. You can even do it in a planter. You don't have to have a big tract of lamp. So hopefully will all improve things and the butterflies will bounce back. I hope. Oh, Tracy, we talked about Luigi this week. He was tricky for me in some ways, which you discovered. There were parts where I had started a sentence and just vanished during that because I could there were things about his life that I did not know how to describe in a way that would be appropriate for our show, because he was, as we talked about, a womanizer in a way that had some very misogynist leanings. UM like. He at one point in his autobiography talked about um offering lessons to women who wanted to take photography lessons for their hobby, and he wrote about them, quote, any woman who takes up photography as a hobby has something emotionally lacking in her life. She must be emotionally starved as I was. So it's like this one too punch where he's like, you wouldn't do this unless you you needed a thrill. But I also understand because I needed a thrill. Like it's a little He always has this kind of duality where he is self deprecating at the same time he's insulting other people, and I think in his head that makes it okay. Um. I was pleasantly surprised though about the ways that he championed in his writing, like not making spectacles out of people who were different. He had this very personal sense of right and wrong, and he relays this one story in his his autobiography where he was asked for photos of what this editor from another magazine that was not New York called Abnormal Fellows, and what he meant was men who wore women's clothing and in it. In it, we Gi said that he called that editor and said, you're not getting the pictures. What's abnormal to you is completely normal to me. Like he just was like, no, I'm not going to exploit somebody for your thing. So he had this voyeuristic tendency, but he was also really weirdly protective of of people in the fringe of society. It's very, very fascinating. The New Yorker had to write up about him, in which they they put it succinctly and much better than I could, where they described him as both exploitative and humane, which is a weird, a weird combo, but it's part of what makes him so fascinating to me. We mentioned his photos of doctor Strange Love, and if you are doing calendar math, you may go, wait a minute. Strange Love didn't come out until the nineteen sixties. I don't know what the scoop is there. It is always specifically mentioned as a thing that happened when he was in Hollywood, but he was back in New York before that. Happened, So I don't know if it's like a thing where And I saw that reported in multiple places, so I wanted to mention it here because it is a little bit weird. I'm not sure what the scoop is there, unless he just got called back by Kubrick for that. There's also an interesting side story story about his life that when he was working in Acne, he was also a fiddle player, and he started playing in a movie theater orchestra huh for a while, and that he hated talkies because once they became a thing and sound attached to picture was more common, he couldn't do that job anymore, which he apparently really loved, and he claimed that he always hated talkies for the rest of his night. I mean that seems like a logical grudge to hold. Yeah, one other thing I wanted to mention because I'm sure someone will ask he was Jewish. We didn't mention it in the show because it's kind of like when we talked about Theodo Vera, he would say things like, oh, I took this holiday off, but he never talked about actually observing any religious practices. It's unclear how connected he was to that as part of his identity versus like those just being the few days he would take off a year because he was a workaholic without question. You know. He he both wrote about himself and it's corroborated by other accounts that like there would be times when, for example, like a gangster was expected to be arrested, and so Press would start to camp out around that person's apartment building and the other guys would take shifts, and Luigi would just stay the whole time, Like even if it took three days, he would not leave. Um, so he kind of had a his circadian rhythms were different than everyone else's. I'll just he could not handle the nine to five day job situation. Uh. The other fun factoried about him is that he estimates that in his time at ACME, he took photographs of more than five thousand murders, which is a lot. That's so many, it is so many have conflicted feelings about all the crime scene photography. Yeah, it's um, I mean it's like it's like we said, he could be very exploitative and also very humane. It's it's really interesting to me, especially like when you see the ways he took those pictures is usually pretty unromanticized. Right, it is a straight photo of like a corpse on the ground. And then when he takes pictures of people that were often outsiders, there is often a little bit more of a loving warmer set up to them, which you can see, like he feels a greater connection to outsiders. Right. He even talks about like what other people found beautiful. He rarely did. Like he talked when he was at Vogue about finding models kind of like just weird. He didn't understand them, they didn't seem to understand themselves. In his opinion, he didn't find anything attractive about a model. But he was perfectly happy to like meet girls on the street and just be like, you want to get in my car and then they would drive around for a while and maybe hook up. It's a little bit of a a strange thing, you know, Uigi. Some of his pictures are so beautiful, some are so upsetting. There's everything in between. If you go looking, know that you're probably going to see some blood at minimum. Yeah. I find the really distorted ones um un nerving. I don't love them, but I don't know if it's because I, you know, grew up and came to be interested in photography and art at a time when he had been so much before that. I had already seen that kind of photo playing and editing kind of played out like to the point where when I find it, when I actually realized that I was looking at his work, I was like seeing it. I mean, he you know, his pictures of New York at night are the real, are the real, like meat and potatoes of his his work, and really like the ones that I think most people find the most engaging versus his later stuff where he was kind of it seems much more purposely trying to figure out new ways to make pictures and to make them interesting, versus just capturing what was interesting about any given scene on its own. Anyway, that was weechie. If you have time off this weekend, I hope you look at some good art. It's just good for your soul. If you don't have time off, I'm sorry, and I hope that it is as RESTful as can being. That you do find some moments of sawace, look at some pretty art that makes you happy. Um, and I hope all of your responsibilities play out as beautifully and ideally as possible. Everybody be good to each other. You will find us right back here tomorrow with a classic, and then starting on Monday, we'll have new stuff for you. Stuff you missed in History Class is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.