Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. I'm Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. And uh, you know, Julie, I was just thinking the other day about how we're just approaching fifty years of humans going into the space. Like I think it's like like the next April, I think is the is when we'll reach that point fifty years of humans blasting up on the the tip of control explosions, uh, into orbit, hanging out in microgravity and then coming back and uh and and I in in researching what we're gonna talk about today, I was I was thinking, what if everybody who had come back from space came back like just completely changed in terms of their their their mental um, you know, outlook on life and the universe um to the point where it was just like you had space people returning to the planet. Well, and you know my question is, aren't they completely changed? I mean, wouldn't they just be inherently changed from that experience? Well, at some level, I think they generally are. I mean you hear people talk about like I was talking to one of the Virgin Galactic dudes about the whole cell on Virgin Galactic, which, of course Virgin Galactic is the space tourist thing that's gonna eventually start here Richard Branson's brain child. Yeah, I like how you just drop it? Yeah, I was just talking to like the versus Ealactic you know, well not I should out, I should Yeah. I was talking about my seat on the flight, all right. I was not talking to Richard, just one of Richard alright, just to clarify, Yeah, but it was for an article. It wasn't like we weren't hanging out, you know. But but but I was asking him, like, you know about the cell of you know, shooting people into space and whether the what they were they were offering was gonna, you know, really please people or if people would be like, whoa what was that? That was whack? I was told I was going to have a little more of a space experience there, but these seats are awful. Yeah, but he was like, no, it's gonna it's gonna deliver because people go into space, and when they go into space, that's something they talk about for the rest of their lives, Like it becomes this defining experience, right finding moment of their their life story. So yeah, so I think on one level, yes, it does change people. But but the big thing we're going to talk about today is the is this thing called the overview effect, which entails or at least at least it implies that there are greater changes going on in uh in at least human outlook. Right. And this is a relatively new term, right, the overview effect. Right. It was described by Frank White, I believe, and he was talking about this this um common thread that runs through astronauts and their experience when they're out in space and they just kind of look over their shoulder or maybe they're making a repair or something, or they're space walking, yeah, you know, just just as you would be doing on the Moon, and they happen to look over at Earth and then they're just blown away in this sense of euphoria. Yeah, I'm picturing like a double take. You know. It's like alright, preparing repairing the moon buggy, repairing the Moon buggy, and you're sort of glancing like whoa, and then it just all sinks in right, Right, And for a couple of these astronauts has been completely life changing. Yeah, And and it's made them reconsider humanity, our role um on the Earth and in the universe, and some interesting things have come out of that. Yeah, there's a if you back up a little bit too, uh to the nineteen fifties, early nineteen fifties even uh, they had you had psychologists studying aviation pilots, and they had something already called the breakaway effect and and the and this was just generally solo pilots flying at high altitudes having this experience where they're they're just like like, whoa, they feel the strange feeling of detachment from the Earth. Um, do you know, Like I said, generally during solo missions, and it's kind of this spiritual sensation. Yeah. Well, and I think um to me that the most interesting part of this is astronaut edgar Mitchell, and he described his his feelings about the experience, which are really beautiful if you think about it. He said that he was basically overwhelmed by the experience. He became profoundly aware that each and every atom in the universe was connected in some way, and on seeing Earth from space, he had an understanding that all humans, animals, and systems were part of the same thing, a synergistic whole. It was an interconnected euphoria. Wow. Yeah, interconnected euphoria sounds that sounds pretty intense. Yeah, So you look at that experience and you start to consider it, and as scientists and neuroscientists are starting to look at it, and and you think, Okay, well, what happened right before they had that Eufork experience? What are what are astronauts spacewalker? What are these people experiencing, you know, proceeding that very moment, like even the just the pilots into an airplanes that aren't even going into space and there you're probably pulling some serious g s and then you're you're looking out at you know, perhaps the even the curvature of the Earth or something. And I mean even those guys were like they were using language like I felt like a god, or I felt like I was king of the Earth, or even this weird thing where they were like I wanted to just fly on forever. I didn't care if there was any fuel, you know. So so, but then taking it to the they had like a Thumma and Louise moment. Yeah, yeah, where they just want to just drive off the cliff of the universe, right off the cliff. Yeah. So so when you're going into space, though, it's it's that that more complicated a journey, you know, it's it's a it's a lot more effort to actually, um leave the atmosphere. So so yeah, the experiences of getting there are definitely a little more taxing. Yeah. So, I mean you have written about this before in a blog post of about how being out in space kind of makes you a little bit cranky. Yeah, and you talked about stage one. Yeah. Stage one is, uh is a pretty cool well, I mean they're all kind of cool and kind of frightening. Um but but stage stage one is basically like a twenty six drop in sleep efficiency, greater reduced rapid eye movement and uh. And and essentially you have dream deprivation. So you start feeling uncomfortable. You start feeling sluggish in your work. You know, it's like if you stay up all night and you know, pulling all night, or then try to go to work the next day, you know you're gonna feel a little slow. You you may feel you know, a little cranky even and uh, it's like the beginning of a road trip. Yeah. And plus you're in space now, where suddenly your sense of night and day is totally screwed up. Sleeping is a different ordeal. Your stomachs all, you know, messed up. You're having to take You're probably having to take a little medication here and there to to regulate what's night and what's day. Right, you're like the Elvis of the cosmos. Yeah, exactly on your space toilet do you hopefully get off of? Yeah, And so basically you're just sort of trying to acclimate to the atmosphere you're in, the environment, you're in, the people you're with. And then stage two that's sort of like the honeymoon period, right. Yeah, Generally it's about six weeks into a mission and you hit your stride um and uh and and you you're generally gonna have six additional weeks of having it all figured out. You got it, you know, you got your patterns down. Your stomach, I guess has has settled out a little and is not going crazy at every little thing. You're you know, you figured out that the most efficient way to go to the restroom or I don't know, maybe you're you're still in the mode where you can hold it. I don't know how how long, Um, you know, a human can actually um hold out. But if if you really wanted to, maybe twelve twelve weeks, I don't know, Yeah, I don't know, but that would be uncomfortable. I would say, that'd make me cranky. And then stage three you start kind of sniping with each other. Right, the honeymoon's over. Your your crew members, your fellow crew members are driving you nuts. Yeah, this is like I think like our five of a of a terrestrial uh car trip of road trip, you know, where suddenly everybody's a little bit cramped up a little too long here, you're getting a little a little short with everyone, right, you want to listen to your music. Yeah, And a lot of this they say is linked to boredom and isolation obviously, you know. And but some of the stuff was really interesting. They said that some of the studies I was looking at, they said that you could you'd have you know, increased sensitivity to loud noises, changes in musical preference. So I guess suddenly, like you're looking at your iPod, It's like, what was I thinking bringing all this a C D C up here? All I want to do is listen to pure moods. And you're like yeah, yeah, so this is I mean, this is a great reason to make sure that your MP three players loaded down. Like, don't don't just put on all the rock and music you're gonna need for those first twelve weeks. Uh, you know, you're gonna want to be prepared for the for maybe a little calm or listening later on, ye bring some back up. And then you've got stage four right so and and by the way, so just to recap it, you've got fatigued stress, you're feeling a little bit lonely, sensory deprivation, you've got some bone mass loss going on, right, Um, poor oxygen at at certain times, yes, they're they're you know, they have sensors to regulate that. But you're you're probably countering some some poor oxygen from time to time. You're also you can only clean yourself. So, I mean, I don't know about the rest of you people out there, but if like, camping for me is kind of an ordeal because if I go like a day without taking a shower, I just feel like I'm doing something wrong. Really. Yeah, like in the summer, I'll take two or three if I can get away with it in a day. I know, that's not good for my skin. But man, there's nothing like a shower to like just change your outlook on life. I guess that means I would be well suited to space travel. I don't mind the funk. Yeah, yeah, I feel like it's it's a morning to others. Well, that's the thing. It's so you're gonna have how you know, a number of people in a in a very enclosed environment, all using their funk as a warning to see this is why this might be ideal for me, idea well solo mission maybe yeah, okay, yeah, I don't know, you're right, but so all these things are happening and uh and then I kind of look at what stage four as sort of the extreme teenage mode where you just get super cranky because you know that the thing is going to come to a close pretty soon. But is this also when euphoria might set in? Yeah, this is when you start getting this uh this one final symptom, and it is quote prevailing feelings of euphoria. This is uh, this this is you know, we're getting into the into the overview effect territory here. This is linked to multiple accounts from astronauts of of how their their mental state is gone throughout a mission because you know NASA, UM, you know any of these space programs that they're very interested in the mental shape of their their astronauts before, during, and after a trip. And so this is an established pattern right here. So I think that's interesting to know that you have to undergo all these different, uh see changes in yourself before you get to experience you for you. I think that guess that's a clue. Yeah, it's kind of like, um, my wife and I often will try and make this a Friday evening relaxation yoga thing, and uh and it's generally I'm just exceedingly cranky when I get there because I've just got just gotten home from working, you know, and she's just gotten home, and we're putting off having dinner till after yoga. So we're maybe a little up. What I think is is known in scientific circles as angry. This is when you're both hungry. You're you're angry, but it's due to hunger issues, all right, your blood sugar levels are not. Yeah, so we're a little angry. We just you know, we've just been running NonStop and now we're at yoga and you know, we get in there and granted is you know, some calming music and all, but then it's you know, start getting into uncomfortable poses and and then it just makes me crankier. And then there's a karate uh lesson going on in the room next to it, so it's like I can't relax with are you going on next door? But then eventually at the very end after all this like karate and and and uh and yoga, it's like we start doing the relaxation mode, like I guess like an hour and a half end, and then then you can actually relax, so I kind of get that impression from from going into space. At the long end of this arduous process, suddenly all this in insight starts happening. So it's sort of like a release. Yes, is your hypothesis well sort of sort of my hypotheis yeah, yeah, no, I can see that. Yeah, but like yes, a NASA reports they document this, and they refer to this stuff feeling as quote is giving one quote new insights into the meaning of life and the unity of mankind, right, and that those are the implications that some people are trying to apply to humanity as a whole. In a certain way, which we'll talk about a little bit. But um, I think that we want to look maybe a little bit more at this feeling of euphoria and question a little bit more, especially since you've already kind of talked about this this release aspect of it and the fact that it is a pattern that you know, it happens after the following steps. So you've got to wonder if if the euphoric feeling that they're experiencing isn't necessarily something from beyond them, which is something usually the case that they feel like this is um, not God so much, but it's not a force outside of themselves that's that's acting on them, is the general impression that I get. Yeah, so you've got to kind of wonder if if this isn't coming from inside um, if you look at their brain as it changed a little bit, Um, are they having this experience because of all those different conditions that we talked about. Yeah, Like, like one thing that that I found out when I was researching this is that if you go you know, it's like spaces travel. You know, when you go into space, you're traveling into an extreme environment, a very hostile environment, one where humans cannot really live unless they bring a little encapsulations of their own environment up with them. The same is true of the deep ocean, where we have two different um um effects going on. There's there's one effect called the rapture of the deep, also more commonly known I guess as nitrogen narcosis, and this starts hitting people out around a hundred feet below sea level. It's also known as the Martini effect because the idea is that you start feeling the effects of one drink for every thirty three feet below sixty five feet. Yeah, I think it's like it's been described as like as a as a beer buzz that you experience UM. And then another deep sea um condition that is often encountered or occasional encountered anyway, is a hydrogen narcosis. And this occurs if you in some people, if you hit a thousand feet below sea level four five minutes or more. And with this you can get hallucinations, disorientation, confusion, UM and and again these are these are very much you know, due to physiological conditions, right, so it could have it could be a neurological event, right. Brown University for instance, had a they've connected a four year study where They gauge the possible effects of thin air on astronauts by studying climbers who are ascending Mount Everest, which Mount Everest is another one of these conditions, these situations where you're you're entering a dangerous and extreme environment that people really, you know, nobody, but healthwise nobody should really go to the top of Mount Everest. It's it's it's not not a good place. When you've been you're sharp, and you've been in an environment and you've been doing it as a young child, and you you've been lugging up like Imax cameras your whole life, and and you know, all sorts of stuff so that some you know, some American dude from Vermont can stand on the top of the mountain and pretend he did it all himself and then he's like carrying me down. I can't breathe, but get the picture hurried. But they found that low oxygen environments can damage both the brains uh uh. And I'm gonna say this completely wrong. If your glaubus palladis, which control subconscious voluntary movements, um and uh and even the hit the hippocampus. So the climbers in the study exhibited ended up exhibiting decreased UM cognitive capacity, UM sentence comprehension fell off during the ascent, and that one climber, noted in the two thousand four report um even fell to his death two days after being advised of his condition. So again it's like suddenly you're you know, your voluntary your subconscious voluntary movements are taking a hit. Not an ideal situation while you're climbing Mount Everest, not for you want to be in the old Martin game. And then there was a two thousand and eight study in the European Journal of Neurology and they concluded that extremely high altitude exposures can permanently damage brain regions involved in motor activity. So so you know, based based on these studies, um, you know, people in NASA, E, S A, etcetera. Are really into the idea of having and of keeping these uh you know, atmospheric monitors to keep an eye on oxygen levels. Because just as you don't want decreased subconscious voluntary movements, uh while you're climbing a mountain, you also don't want it like while you're on a spacewalk or while you're trying to like, you know, do some experiment about tiny screws, right, and you also don't want people to go nuts up there too. So I'm sure that they've got invested interest in making sure that everybody is psychologically safe and um, in fact, don't they have some sort of virtual psychologist program? Yeah? Well yeah, they've been working on it is because they would really like if you've seen the movie Moon, I don't know if you haven't seen that, Okay, well, the movie Moon, which are Sam Rockwell, has this this robot computer voiced by Kevin Spacey that kind of checks in with him and sees how and you know, finds out how he's doing emotionally and mentally throughout the picture. And that's exactly the kind of thing NASA has been looking at, h and it would it would it would basically be kind of like you know these little personality tests you take online. It'd be kind of like that you take that every few days, and then the computer monitors you to see if you're starting to exhibit signs of craziness. Okay, I can't help think of like two thousand and one and like having how's your's your psychologist? You know, hopefully that wouldn't happen. I'm sure hopefully the computer would not go crazy, yeah and start just messing with you. You're enough feelings so great? Um? Okay, So I think all of these things are kind of spelling out something, um about maybe it being more of an internal thing, even though the hopes are that it would be this Eufork feeling might be some sort of universal truth about our unitedness as humanity. Not so eloquently, but you know what I'm saying. I think on one level, there's often tendency to to equate it more with you just for spiritual awakening. But I think if we've examined here, there's definitely a biological side to it, the end of a grueling trip in an extreme environment, possibly some oxygen issues going on. And then there's just the there's just the blatant fact it's easy to overlook. Here you're in space looking at the Earth. This is it's going to mess with you. Yeah, it's an incredible experience by all accounts, right, it's not. It's something that you can't really comprehend, right, Like what that's outside of our understanding? Right? Like like you yourself, have you ever encountered, like just seen a sight, uh you know, be it a you know, a breath taking vista or you know, or something in the sky that's just really just blowing your mind. Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking about the Grand Canyon. I'm not trying to be little the experienced by saying it's like the Grand Canyon, because like you just said, I mean, it's it's beyond you know, our understandings. And you see something like that, you see the Earth from a distance like that, and you see the weather paddings patterns going on, you must be like, oh my god, this this thing is beautiful. And that's why astronauts like fall in love they go gaga over Earth and just start thinking, oh, we're all one. But you know, just on the smaller scale, I think about the Grand Canyon. You look at it and it's if it's something that you've never seen before, geological structure like that, then all of a sudden you have a completely different understanding of the earth underneath your feet, and and you start to sort of reconsider the way. At least that was my experience being there is understand um humanity a little bit different, or even you just give you a historical perspective. Yeah, like I think even it's like take city dwellers for instance. I think any even, uh, you know, we can get a slice of that cake just by going suddenly finding going out to a a rural setting or you know, going out into a some sort of national park environment and suddenly you're just an entirely different environment and you can be like, whoa, look at this, there's nature happening all around me, and I've you know, it's and you can suddenly feel this oneness with with this the biodiversity in the system that's branching out all around you. Yeah. I also think too about how and you and I had talked about this before, about how sometimes you can come back from space and you don't have that you fork feeling. In fact, you feel anxious and fearful. Yeah. The studies by NASA, ESA, etcetera. They also recognized that some people came back feeling a little freaked out by the whole experience. Yeah, and it kind of makes me think of LSD and tripping. Yeah, you hear. It's you know, it's kind of like you have the classic stories, especially the ones that were were that showed up in different films aimed at young people in the sixties, where people freak out and you know, try and force themselves through a keyhole and jump out of a window, and then you have appeal themselves because they think they're an orange Oh yeah, yeah, that kind of thing. And then the other sort of traditional, you know, hippie sort of thing where people you know, take this and then feel totally in touch with the universe. Right the doors of perception fly open and you're suddenly your terence from kinda yeah, and you're you're communing with aliens and so on and so forth. Now speaking of aliens, um, I mean that's the thing. Sometimes you come back from from from space, then you experienced the overview effect and you you found what kind of sounds like a religion, right, yeah, sometimes you do, and perhaps that's the hinky part of it, right yeah, tell us about about this, all right. So you come back and your name is Edgar Mitchell, and you had that experience that we talked about um where he was basically saying he felt this oneness and you feel like you've got to do something about it, and so you start noetic science, or what it would be the seeds for noetic science, which I think is the Institute of Noetic Sciences, I believe, and you really try to take that philosophy, that overwhelming feeling that we all are part of one system and apply it to human consciousness by using science. So it's interesting. It's a great proposition. I mean, who wouldn't want us to all become better human beings through Yeah. The problem is I think that you know, I know, is that some of the some of the studies that they're carrying out you have to be a little bit skeptical about. And that would be like healing three distances for instance. So if you know I've got cancer and I've got a group of Buddhist monks praying for me on the other side of the ocean, Um, that might somehow affect my ability to heal myself. Well it's a little bit of a specious argument, you know. It's Um that's where you kind of look at the message and you think, Okay, I love the message, but I'm not sure that we can actually translate this into stuff that's going to be practical for us, right or certainly if it's a even if it's a you know, a great practical message, it doesn't mean we necessarily need to prop it up with science. I mean science. I mean it's when things are kind of like of a spiritual religious nature. I'm more of the mindset like, don't try and prove that with science. I mean, you've it's its own thing, right, Yeah, to embrace it for what it is and just say you know what it is. I mean, not that it was a personal experience mistake, though I'm totally fine with with scientific explorations of religious claims. That's totally valid. Yeah. And I think you and I discuss this before, to you that it seems like this is such a personal perspective that it's hard to create something so personal when through one one's own filter and apply it in a universal way. But you know, I think that it's really interesting what they're trying to explore with this. And in fact, Andy Newburgh, he's a neuroscientist and he's got some experience in space medicine. He's hoping to find out whether there is an actual psychological phenomenon by scanning the brain pre impost space travel. So I don't I haven't been able to find any follow up information on that whether or not he's been successful in doing so, but I think that's the first line of trying to apply some science to it to see what is actually happening in the brain. Well, it seems it seems perfectly valid because we've discussed before how like taking having a year of piano lessons can can change your brain. You know, So if piano lessons can can change your brain, which and I took piano lessons and I remember very little of it, I imagine something as memorable as a trip into orbit would would rearrange your thinking a bit. Oh yeah, change you forever. Um. And then do you also have the Overview Effect Institute and they actually want to try to reproduce this at a level that everybody could experience it. So um, they're kind of thinking about it as some some sort of video iPod like device that could deliver a dose of overview effect and let everyone experience that euphoria. So just like it would be kind of like watching two thousand one on Imax or something that's their whole thing perhaps, or trying to maybe recreate that that sense of wonder and that sort of again, that that ocean neck feeling of oneness, which I would sign up for that. Yeah, yeah, you couldn't douce that this presentation is brought to you by Intel sponsors of tomorrow. Yeah, I can't help. But wonder if if we reach the point where where we decide, yeah, it's sending people into space totally changes the way you look at the world, makes you a more spiritual person or something. Uh, you know, might we reached the point where we're taking criminals and miscreans and instead of sending them into prisons or even like you know, terrestrial rehabilitation programs, we just start shooting them into space. I mean not I mean men bringing them back, that's key, but but yeah, shooting them up on Virgin galactic you know, um, you know, eight at a time, they all come back and they're instantly enlightened. So I don't think that will happen, but it's a beautiful idea. Did you talk to Richard Branson's guy about that? I did not. I should have asked him if this is I wish I thought to I could be like, hey, are there any plans to uh to fill any of these early flights up with with murderers and they would probably said no, probably not. I think they'd have to change their name too. I don't know. Virgin galactic miscreants. Yeah, because I because I imagine the you know, the early flights are all going to be you know, celebrities and you know, self made millionaires and billionaires, so they're probably not gonna want to sit next to people that are in chains. Well, so that's kind of not fair. Do they do they all get to be shot up into space and then become enlightened? Is that? Is that what we're I'm hoping, like, I'm really you know, they don't. They don't release the info about who has has purchased tickets unless the person who has purchased the ticket or reserved the tickets is actually outspoken about it. And I really am looking forward to the first um uh rapper hip hop artist that goes into space, experiences the overview effect, and then comes back and shares that with the world through music. That's gonna be amazing. That's gonna be the best rapping. Yeah, I'm really hoping. It's ludicrous. So you're listening book that flight? Man? That's right? Man? Okay, So do we have any listener mail? Seems like our inbox has been busy lately. Yes, I received a cool email from a listener by the name of Ann, and she had a few thoughts about our our our podcast, Our Creatures Are Sleeping, which dealt with everything from unihmistteric sleep to what our cats are are doing when they're laying there in funny shapes and uh and she pointed pointed out. She said, quote, h if you haven't checked out, Mike bro Brickly is um interview on NPR, and she gave a link. He has rapid eye movement behavior disorder and once ran out of a second story window of a hotel while asleep. He's also a great comedian and just wrote a book called Sleepwalk to Me and other painfully true stories. And I don't know, I don't know if you've listened to Mike Prickly any He's got a awful Yeah. I mean it's comedy gold, but it's awful. Yeah, it's worth he's worth looking up. He also has been featured on the Moth podcast, which is like storytelling, you know, situations and uh and and I think also in this American Life but but yeah, he suffers from this really kind of horrible sleep um disturbance and uh and has a humorous outlook on it even though he's doing things like leaping through glass windows and having to explain to hotel clerks that he's quote like the Hulk, and then then getting checked into the hospital. But but I found that amusing, and so I think and for bringing that to our attention. Also received some cool thoughts about our Inside Out People podcasts. When we discussed uh aversion yeah and um, we had a listener by the name of Keith who pointed out that there's a Mythbufters episode on differential pressure and diving suits. So that's where checking out if you want a little more UH things or people possibly but not really turning inside out. And and we also discussed cartoons, right and how I was a little shocked that there were so many like children's cartoons where people um or animals turn inside out. Yeah, where your fear of being turned inside out was manifested. Yeah. And we had a listener by the name of Brad who who pointed out on our Facebook page that in SpongeBob square Pants there is a character named squid Word and he becomes turned in inside out at one point. And the interesting thing about this is the creator of SpongeBob is he has a background in marine biology, so it makes total sense that that would pop up at some point during that shows a long run, because the thing is we discussed in the podcast, things that live in the ocean are just always averting themselves, like cucumbers who have nine d or no like a thousand high qu dedicated to them. Yes, in Japanese culture, sharks that vomit up their stomach like a like somebody turning their pocket inside out to get a little rid of limp. So anyway, if you want to point anything out to us on Facebook or Twitter, you can find us at both places as Blow the Mind and speaking of sea creatures, we are still getting our sea legs as a podcast as Stuff to Blow your Mind, So please share your thoughts with us. Let us know what you like, what you don't like. We'd love to hear from you. You can email us at blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com For more on this and thousands of other topics. 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Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. I'm Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. And uh, you know, Julie, I was just thinking the other day about how we're just approaching fifty years of humans going into the space. Like I think it's like like the next April, I think is the is when we'll reach that point fifty years of humans blasting up on the the tip of control explosions, uh, into orbit, hanging out in microgravity and then coming back and uh and and I in in researching what we're gonna talk about today, I was I was thinking, what if everybody who had come back from space came back like just completely changed in terms of their their their mental um, you know, outlook on life and the universe um to the point where it was just like you had space people returning to the planet. Well, and you know my question is, aren't they completely changed? I mean, wouldn't they just be inherently changed from that experience? Well, at some level, I think they generally are. I mean you hear people talk about like I was talking to one of the Virgin Galactic dudes about the whole cell on Virgin Galactic, which, of course Virgin Galactic is the space tourist thing that's gonna eventually start here Richard Branson's brain child. Yeah, I like how you just drop it? Yeah, I was just talking to like the versus Ealactic you know, well not I should out, I should Yeah. I was talking about my seat on the flight, all right. I was not talking to Richard, just one of Richard alright, just to clarify, Yeah, but it was for an article. It wasn't like we weren't hanging out, you know. But but but I was asking him, like, you know about the cell of you know, shooting people into space and whether the what they were they were offering was gonna, you know, really please people or if people would be like, whoa what was that? That was whack? I was told I was going to have a little more of a space experience there, but these seats are awful. Yeah, but he was like, no, it's gonna it's gonna deliver because people go into space, and when they go into space, that's something they talk about for the rest of their lives, Like it becomes this defining experience, right finding moment of their their life story. So yeah, so I think on one level, yes, it does change people. But but the big thing we're going to talk about today is the is this thing called the overview effect, which entails or at least at least it implies that there are greater changes going on in uh in at least human outlook. Right. And this is a relatively new term, right, the overview effect. Right. It was described by Frank White, I believe, and he was talking about this this um common thread that runs through astronauts and their experience when they're out in space and they just kind of look over their shoulder or maybe they're making a repair or something, or they're space walking, yeah, you know, just just as you would be doing on the Moon, and they happen to look over at Earth and then they're just blown away in this sense of euphoria. Yeah, I'm picturing like a double take. You know. It's like alright, preparing repairing the moon buggy, repairing the Moon buggy, and you're sort of glancing like whoa, and then it just all sinks in right, Right, And for a couple of these astronauts has been completely life changing. Yeah, And and it's made them reconsider humanity, our role um on the Earth and in the universe, and some interesting things have come out of that. Yeah, there's a if you back up a little bit too, uh to the nineteen fifties, early nineteen fifties even uh, they had you had psychologists studying aviation pilots, and they had something already called the breakaway effect and and the and this was just generally solo pilots flying at high altitudes having this experience where they're they're just like like, whoa, they feel the strange feeling of detachment from the Earth. Um, do you know, Like I said, generally during solo missions, and it's kind of this spiritual sensation. Yeah. Well, and I think um to me that the most interesting part of this is astronaut edgar Mitchell, and he described his his feelings about the experience, which are really beautiful if you think about it. He said that he was basically overwhelmed by the experience. He became profoundly aware that each and every atom in the universe was connected in some way, and on seeing Earth from space, he had an understanding that all humans, animals, and systems were part of the same thing, a synergistic whole. It was an interconnected euphoria. Wow. Yeah, interconnected euphoria sounds that sounds pretty intense. Yeah, So you look at that experience and you start to consider it, and as scientists and neuroscientists are starting to look at it, and and you think, Okay, well, what happened right before they had that Eufork experience? What are what are astronauts spacewalker? What are these people experiencing, you know, proceeding that very moment, like even the just the pilots into an airplanes that aren't even going into space and there you're probably pulling some serious g s and then you're you're looking out at you know, perhaps the even the curvature of the Earth or something. And I mean even those guys were like they were using language like I felt like a god, or I felt like I was king of the Earth, or even this weird thing where they were like I wanted to just fly on forever. I didn't care if there was any fuel, you know. So so, but then taking it to the they had like a Thumma and Louise moment. Yeah, yeah, where they just want to just drive off the cliff of the universe, right off the cliff. Yeah. So so when you're going into space, though, it's it's that that more complicated a journey, you know, it's it's a it's a lot more effort to actually, um leave the atmosphere. So so yeah, the experiences of getting there are definitely a little more taxing. Yeah. So, I mean you have written about this before in a blog post of about how being out in space kind of makes you a little bit cranky. Yeah, and you talked about stage one. Yeah. Stage one is, uh is a pretty cool well, I mean they're all kind of cool and kind of frightening. Um but but stage stage one is basically like a twenty six drop in sleep efficiency, greater reduced rapid eye movement and uh. And and essentially you have dream deprivation. So you start feeling uncomfortable. You start feeling sluggish in your work. You know, it's like if you stay up all night and you know, pulling all night, or then try to go to work the next day, you know you're gonna feel a little slow. You you may feel you know, a little cranky even and uh, it's like the beginning of a road trip. Yeah. And plus you're in space now, where suddenly your sense of night and day is totally screwed up. Sleeping is a different ordeal. Your stomachs all, you know, messed up. You're having to take You're probably having to take a little medication here and there to to regulate what's night and what's day. Right, you're like the Elvis of the cosmos. Yeah, exactly on your space toilet do you hopefully get off of? Yeah, And so basically you're just sort of trying to acclimate to the atmosphere you're in, the environment, you're in, the people you're with. And then stage two that's sort of like the honeymoon period, right. Yeah, Generally it's about six weeks into a mission and you hit your stride um and uh and and you you're generally gonna have six additional weeks of having it all figured out. You got it, you know, you got your patterns down. Your stomach, I guess has has settled out a little and is not going crazy at every little thing. You're you know, you figured out that the most efficient way to go to the restroom or I don't know, maybe you're you're still in the mode where you can hold it. I don't know how how long, Um, you know, a human can actually um hold out. But if if you really wanted to, maybe twelve twelve weeks, I don't know, Yeah, I don't know, but that would be uncomfortable. I would say, that'd make me cranky. And then stage three you start kind of sniping with each other. Right, the honeymoon's over. Your your crew members, your fellow crew members are driving you nuts. Yeah, this is like I think like our five of a of a terrestrial uh car trip of road trip, you know, where suddenly everybody's a little bit cramped up a little too long here, you're getting a little a little short with everyone, right, you want to listen to your music. Yeah, And a lot of this they say is linked to boredom and isolation obviously, you know. And but some of the stuff was really interesting. They said that some of the studies I was looking at, they said that you could you'd have you know, increased sensitivity to loud noises, changes in musical preference. So I guess suddenly, like you're looking at your iPod, It's like, what was I thinking bringing all this a C D C up here? All I want to do is listen to pure moods. And you're like yeah, yeah, so this is I mean, this is a great reason to make sure that your MP three players loaded down. Like, don't don't just put on all the rock and music you're gonna need for those first twelve weeks. Uh, you know, you're gonna want to be prepared for the for maybe a little calm or listening later on, ye bring some back up. And then you've got stage four right so and and by the way, so just to recap it, you've got fatigued stress, you're feeling a little bit lonely, sensory deprivation, you've got some bone mass loss going on, right, Um, poor oxygen at at certain times, yes, they're they're you know, they have sensors to regulate that. But you're you're probably countering some some poor oxygen from time to time. You're also you can only clean yourself. So, I mean, I don't know about the rest of you people out there, but if like, camping for me is kind of an ordeal because if I go like a day without taking a shower, I just feel like I'm doing something wrong. Really. Yeah, like in the summer, I'll take two or three if I can get away with it in a day. I know, that's not good for my skin. But man, there's nothing like a shower to like just change your outlook on life. I guess that means I would be well suited to space travel. I don't mind the funk. Yeah, yeah, I feel like it's it's a morning to others. Well, that's the thing. It's so you're gonna have how you know, a number of people in a in a very enclosed environment, all using their funk as a warning to see this is why this might be ideal for me, idea well solo mission maybe yeah, okay, yeah, I don't know, you're right, but so all these things are happening and uh and then I kind of look at what stage four as sort of the extreme teenage mode where you just get super cranky because you know that the thing is going to come to a close pretty soon. But is this also when euphoria might set in? Yeah, this is when you start getting this uh this one final symptom, and it is quote prevailing feelings of euphoria. This is uh, this this is you know, we're getting into the into the overview effect territory here. This is linked to multiple accounts from astronauts of of how their their mental state is gone throughout a mission because you know NASA, UM, you know any of these space programs that they're very interested in the mental shape of their their astronauts before, during, and after a trip. And so this is an established pattern right here. So I think that's interesting to know that you have to undergo all these different, uh see changes in yourself before you get to experience you for you. I think that guess that's a clue. Yeah, it's kind of like, um, my wife and I often will try and make this a Friday evening relaxation yoga thing, and uh and it's generally I'm just exceedingly cranky when I get there because I've just got just gotten home from working, you know, and she's just gotten home, and we're putting off having dinner till after yoga. So we're maybe a little up. What I think is is known in scientific circles as angry. This is when you're both hungry. You're you're angry, but it's due to hunger issues, all right, your blood sugar levels are not. Yeah, so we're a little angry. We just you know, we've just been running NonStop and now we're at yoga and you know, we get in there and granted is you know, some calming music and all, but then it's you know, start getting into uncomfortable poses and and then it just makes me crankier. And then there's a karate uh lesson going on in the room next to it, so it's like I can't relax with are you going on next door? But then eventually at the very end after all this like karate and and and uh and yoga, it's like we start doing the relaxation mode, like I guess like an hour and a half end, and then then you can actually relax, so I kind of get that impression from from going into space. At the long end of this arduous process, suddenly all this in insight starts happening. So it's sort of like a release. Yes, is your hypothesis well sort of sort of my hypotheis yeah, yeah, no, I can see that. Yeah, but like yes, a NASA reports they document this, and they refer to this stuff feeling as quote is giving one quote new insights into the meaning of life and the unity of mankind, right, and that those are the implications that some people are trying to apply to humanity as a whole. In a certain way, which we'll talk about a little bit. But um, I think that we want to look maybe a little bit more at this feeling of euphoria and question a little bit more, especially since you've already kind of talked about this this release aspect of it and the fact that it is a pattern that you know, it happens after the following steps. So you've got to wonder if if the euphoric feeling that they're experiencing isn't necessarily something from beyond them, which is something usually the case that they feel like this is um, not God so much, but it's not a force outside of themselves that's that's acting on them, is the general impression that I get. Yeah, so you've got to kind of wonder if if this isn't coming from inside um, if you look at their brain as it changed a little bit, Um, are they having this experience because of all those different conditions that we talked about. Yeah, Like, like one thing that that I found out when I was researching this is that if you go you know, it's like spaces travel. You know, when you go into space, you're traveling into an extreme environment, a very hostile environment, one where humans cannot really live unless they bring a little encapsulations of their own environment up with them. The same is true of the deep ocean, where we have two different um um effects going on. There's there's one effect called the rapture of the deep, also more commonly known I guess as nitrogen narcosis, and this starts hitting people out around a hundred feet below sea level. It's also known as the Martini effect because the idea is that you start feeling the effects of one drink for every thirty three feet below sixty five feet. Yeah, I think it's like it's been described as like as a as a beer buzz that you experience UM. And then another deep sea um condition that is often encountered or occasional encountered anyway, is a hydrogen narcosis. And this occurs if you in some people, if you hit a thousand feet below sea level four five minutes or more. And with this you can get hallucinations, disorientation, confusion, UM and and again these are these are very much you know, due to physiological conditions, right, so it could have it could be a neurological event, right. Brown University for instance, had a they've connected a four year study where They gauge the possible effects of thin air on astronauts by studying climbers who are ascending Mount Everest, which Mount Everest is another one of these conditions, these situations where you're you're entering a dangerous and extreme environment that people really, you know, nobody, but healthwise nobody should really go to the top of Mount Everest. It's it's it's not not a good place. When you've been you're sharp, and you've been in an environment and you've been doing it as a young child, and you you've been lugging up like Imax cameras your whole life, and and you know, all sorts of stuff so that some you know, some American dude from Vermont can stand on the top of the mountain and pretend he did it all himself and then he's like carrying me down. I can't breathe, but get the picture hurried. But they found that low oxygen environments can damage both the brains uh uh. And I'm gonna say this completely wrong. If your glaubus palladis, which control subconscious voluntary movements, um and uh and even the hit the hippocampus. So the climbers in the study exhibited ended up exhibiting decreased UM cognitive capacity, UM sentence comprehension fell off during the ascent, and that one climber, noted in the two thousand four report um even fell to his death two days after being advised of his condition. So again it's like suddenly you're you know, your voluntary your subconscious voluntary movements are taking a hit. Not an ideal situation while you're climbing Mount Everest, not for you want to be in the old Martin game. And then there was a two thousand and eight study in the European Journal of Neurology and they concluded that extremely high altitude exposures can permanently damage brain regions involved in motor activity. So so you know, based based on these studies, um, you know, people in NASA, E, S A, etcetera. Are really into the idea of having and of keeping these uh you know, atmospheric monitors to keep an eye on oxygen levels. Because just as you don't want decreased subconscious voluntary movements, uh while you're climbing a mountain, you also don't want it like while you're on a spacewalk or while you're trying to like, you know, do some experiment about tiny screws, right, and you also don't want people to go nuts up there too. So I'm sure that they've got invested interest in making sure that everybody is psychologically safe and um, in fact, don't they have some sort of virtual psychologist program? Yeah? Well yeah, they've been working on it is because they would really like if you've seen the movie Moon, I don't know if you haven't seen that, Okay, well, the movie Moon, which are Sam Rockwell, has this this robot computer voiced by Kevin Spacey that kind of checks in with him and sees how and you know, finds out how he's doing emotionally and mentally throughout the picture. And that's exactly the kind of thing NASA has been looking at, h and it would it would it would basically be kind of like you know these little personality tests you take online. It'd be kind of like that you take that every few days, and then the computer monitors you to see if you're starting to exhibit signs of craziness. Okay, I can't help think of like two thousand and one and like having how's your's your psychologist? You know, hopefully that wouldn't happen. I'm sure hopefully the computer would not go crazy, yeah and start just messing with you. You're enough feelings so great? Um? Okay, So I think all of these things are kind of spelling out something, um about maybe it being more of an internal thing, even though the hopes are that it would be this Eufork feeling might be some sort of universal truth about our unitedness as humanity. Not so eloquently, but you know what I'm saying. I think on one level, there's often tendency to to equate it more with you just for spiritual awakening. But I think if we've examined here, there's definitely a biological side to it, the end of a grueling trip in an extreme environment, possibly some oxygen issues going on. And then there's just the there's just the blatant fact it's easy to overlook. Here you're in space looking at the Earth. This is it's going to mess with you. Yeah, it's an incredible experience by all accounts, right, it's not. It's something that you can't really comprehend, right, Like what that's outside of our understanding? Right? Like like you yourself, have you ever encountered, like just seen a sight, uh you know, be it a you know, a breath taking vista or you know, or something in the sky that's just really just blowing your mind. Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking about the Grand Canyon. I'm not trying to be little the experienced by saying it's like the Grand Canyon, because like you just said, I mean, it's it's beyond you know, our understandings. And you see something like that, you see the Earth from a distance like that, and you see the weather paddings patterns going on, you must be like, oh my god, this this thing is beautiful. And that's why astronauts like fall in love they go gaga over Earth and just start thinking, oh, we're all one. But you know, just on the smaller scale, I think about the Grand Canyon. You look at it and it's if it's something that you've never seen before, geological structure like that, then all of a sudden you have a completely different understanding of the earth underneath your feet, and and you start to sort of reconsider the way. At least that was my experience being there is understand um humanity a little bit different, or even you just give you a historical perspective. Yeah, like I think even it's like take city dwellers for instance. I think any even, uh, you know, we can get a slice of that cake just by going suddenly finding going out to a a rural setting or you know, going out into a some sort of national park environment and suddenly you're just an entirely different environment and you can be like, whoa, look at this, there's nature happening all around me, and I've you know, it's and you can suddenly feel this oneness with with this the biodiversity in the system that's branching out all around you. Yeah. I also think too about how and you and I had talked about this before, about how sometimes you can come back from space and you don't have that you fork feeling. In fact, you feel anxious and fearful. Yeah. The studies by NASA, ESA, etcetera. They also recognized that some people came back feeling a little freaked out by the whole experience. Yeah, and it kind of makes me think of LSD and tripping. Yeah, you hear. It's you know, it's kind of like you have the classic stories, especially the ones that were were that showed up in different films aimed at young people in the sixties, where people freak out and you know, try and force themselves through a keyhole and jump out of a window, and then you have appeal themselves because they think they're an orange Oh yeah, yeah, that kind of thing. And then the other sort of traditional, you know, hippie sort of thing where people you know, take this and then feel totally in touch with the universe. Right the doors of perception fly open and you're suddenly your terence from kinda yeah, and you're you're communing with aliens and so on and so forth. Now speaking of aliens, um, I mean that's the thing. Sometimes you come back from from from space, then you experienced the overview effect and you you found what kind of sounds like a religion, right, yeah, sometimes you do, and perhaps that's the hinky part of it, right yeah, tell us about about this, all right. So you come back and your name is Edgar Mitchell, and you had that experience that we talked about um where he was basically saying he felt this oneness and you feel like you've got to do something about it, and so you start noetic science, or what it would be the seeds for noetic science, which I think is the Institute of Noetic Sciences, I believe, and you really try to take that philosophy, that overwhelming feeling that we all are part of one system and apply it to human consciousness by using science. So it's interesting. It's a great proposition. I mean, who wouldn't want us to all become better human beings through Yeah. The problem is I think that you know, I know, is that some of the some of the studies that they're carrying out you have to be a little bit skeptical about. And that would be like healing three distances for instance. So if you know I've got cancer and I've got a group of Buddhist monks praying for me on the other side of the ocean, Um, that might somehow affect my ability to heal myself. Well it's a little bit of a specious argument, you know. It's Um that's where you kind of look at the message and you think, Okay, I love the message, but I'm not sure that we can actually translate this into stuff that's going to be practical for us, right or certainly if it's a even if it's a you know, a great practical message, it doesn't mean we necessarily need to prop it up with science. I mean science. I mean it's when things are kind of like of a spiritual religious nature. I'm more of the mindset like, don't try and prove that with science. I mean, you've it's its own thing, right, Yeah, to embrace it for what it is and just say you know what it is. I mean, not that it was a personal experience mistake, though I'm totally fine with with scientific explorations of religious claims. That's totally valid. Yeah. And I think you and I discuss this before, to you that it seems like this is such a personal perspective that it's hard to create something so personal when through one one's own filter and apply it in a universal way. But you know, I think that it's really interesting what they're trying to explore with this. And in fact, Andy Newburgh, he's a neuroscientist and he's got some experience in space medicine. He's hoping to find out whether there is an actual psychological phenomenon by scanning the brain pre impost space travel. So I don't I haven't been able to find any follow up information on that whether or not he's been successful in doing so, but I think that's the first line of trying to apply some science to it to see what is actually happening in the brain. Well, it seems it seems perfectly valid because we've discussed before how like taking having a year of piano lessons can can change your brain. You know, So if piano lessons can can change your brain, which and I took piano lessons and I remember very little of it, I imagine something as memorable as a trip into orbit would would rearrange your thinking a bit. Oh yeah, change you forever. Um. And then do you also have the Overview Effect Institute and they actually want to try to reproduce this at a level that everybody could experience it. So um, they're kind of thinking about it as some some sort of video iPod like device that could deliver a dose of overview effect and let everyone experience that euphoria. So just like it would be kind of like watching two thousand one on Imax or something that's their whole thing perhaps, or trying to maybe recreate that that sense of wonder and that sort of again, that that ocean neck feeling of oneness, which I would sign up for that. Yeah, yeah, you couldn't douce that this presentation is brought to you by Intel sponsors of tomorrow. Yeah, I can't help. But wonder if if we reach the point where where we decide, yeah, it's sending people into space totally changes the way you look at the world, makes you a more spiritual person or something. Uh, you know, might we reached the point where we're taking criminals and miscreans and instead of sending them into prisons or even like you know, terrestrial rehabilitation programs, we just start shooting them into space. I mean not I mean men bringing them back, that's key, but but yeah, shooting them up on Virgin galactic you know, um, you know, eight at a time, they all come back and they're instantly enlightened. So I don't think that will happen, but it's a beautiful idea. Did you talk to Richard Branson's guy about that? I did not. I should have asked him if this is I wish I thought to I could be like, hey, are there any plans to uh to fill any of these early flights up with with murderers and they would probably said no, probably not. I think they'd have to change their name too. I don't know. Virgin galactic miscreants. Yeah, because I because I imagine the you know, the early flights are all going to be you know, celebrities and you know, self made millionaires and billionaires, so they're probably not gonna want to sit next to people that are in chains. Well, so that's kind of not fair. Do they do they all get to be shot up into space and then become enlightened? Is that? Is that what we're I'm hoping, like, I'm really you know, they don't. They don't release the info about who has has purchased tickets unless the person who has purchased the ticket or reserved the tickets is actually outspoken about it. And I really am looking forward to the first um uh rapper hip hop artist that goes into space, experiences the overview effect, and then comes back and shares that with the world through music. That's gonna be amazing. That's gonna be the best rapping. Yeah, I'm really hoping. It's ludicrous. So you're listening book that flight? Man? That's right? Man? Okay, So do we have any listener mail? Seems like our inbox has been busy lately. Yes, I received a cool email from a listener by the name of Ann, and she had a few thoughts about our our our podcast, Our Creatures Are Sleeping, which dealt with everything from unihmistteric sleep to what our cats are are doing when they're laying there in funny shapes and uh and she pointed pointed out. She said, quote, h if you haven't checked out, Mike bro Brickly is um interview on NPR, and she gave a link. He has rapid eye movement behavior disorder and once ran out of a second story window of a hotel while asleep. He's also a great comedian and just wrote a book called Sleepwalk to Me and other painfully true stories. And I don't know, I don't know if you've listened to Mike Prickly any He's got a awful Yeah. I mean it's comedy gold, but it's awful. Yeah, it's worth he's worth looking up. He also has been featured on the Moth podcast, which is like storytelling, you know, situations and uh and and I think also in this American Life but but yeah, he suffers from this really kind of horrible sleep um disturbance and uh and has a humorous outlook on it even though he's doing things like leaping through glass windows and having to explain to hotel clerks that he's quote like the Hulk, and then then getting checked into the hospital. But but I found that amusing, and so I think and for bringing that to our attention. Also received some cool thoughts about our Inside Out People podcasts. When we discussed uh aversion yeah and um, we had a listener by the name of Keith who pointed out that there's a Mythbufters episode on differential pressure and diving suits. So that's where checking out if you want a little more UH things or people possibly but not really turning inside out. And and we also discussed cartoons, right and how I was a little shocked that there were so many like children's cartoons where people um or animals turn inside out. Yeah, where your fear of being turned inside out was manifested. Yeah. And we had a listener by the name of Brad who who pointed out on our Facebook page that in SpongeBob square Pants there is a character named squid Word and he becomes turned in inside out at one point. And the interesting thing about this is the creator of SpongeBob is he has a background in marine biology, so it makes total sense that that would pop up at some point during that shows a long run, because the thing is we discussed in the podcast, things that live in the ocean are just always averting themselves, like cucumbers who have nine d or no like a thousand high qu dedicated to them. Yes, in Japanese culture, sharks that vomit up their stomach like a like somebody turning their pocket inside out to get a little rid of limp. So anyway, if you want to point anything out to us on Facebook or Twitter, you can find us at both places as Blow the Mind and speaking of sea creatures, we are still getting our sea legs as a podcast as Stuff to Blow your Mind, So please share your thoughts with us. Let us know what you like, what you don't like. We'd love to hear from you. You can email us at blow the Mind at how stuff works dot com For more on this and thousands of other topics. 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