Today, we're going to be talking about IBM's role in an educational model known as p Tech, which was established inn with a mission to empower students with the skills they need for careers in STEM. We'll be talking with Joe L. Mangan, executive director of the p Tech Program at IBM, as well as PTech graduate and hardware developer Eric Cholula Martinez and p tech graduate and IBM apprentice Suhlia Karam Doran. If you want to hear previous entries in this series, you can simply look up the episodes labeled smart Talks and our feed from earlier this year, and you can also check out the episodes of smart Talks on the I Heart Media podcast tech Stuff. And now let's jump right into our conversation. Joel, let's start with you. Can you tell us a bit about yourself, your background and how you wound up working for IBM. Yes, so um I joined pe Tech just about over a year ago. I am actually a recent American. I was born in Africa in the country call Cameroon and uh and I moved to the US about eight years ago after you know, doing work and studying in in the UK and working all over Europe, in Student and Denmark, mainly in IBMS consulting business. So I joined our CSR team a couple of years ago and this has been my most exciting work at IBM doing this work at p Tech. Now, what led you to get involved specifically in education? UM? Education has always played a really important role in my life. I have benefited from a lot of opportunities that my my ps did not get and the outcomes in our lives has been is very very clear to see us as we've all got gotten older. Also, my mom was an avid believer in education. She stopped her education at the age of thirteen, and she was so insistent that we get the best education that we that we could get and that we took it seriously. I was really inspirational was that after she had six children and she was thirty five at the time, she went back to school and she studied to become a teacher and she was an elementary school teacher for the rest of our life. So it's something that has been a really passionating in our family. So we work a lot in education, but mainly in access to education, and this is my first foray really into the systematic part of education. Well, let's talk about about p tech for a second then, So, so first of all, can you just tell us what p tech is, what it stands for, and then how does it work. PETE stands for Pathways to Technology Early College, high School and so now you know, I we just call it pe tech UM. So PETER was conceived ten years ago to have a different and innovative way to tackle the skills gap. I think we can talk about the skills gap in a minute, but focus really on how p tech works. UM. Pe tech allows ninth graders in a p tech school to complete a STEM related Associates degree and the high school diploma at the same time. So the aim of the program is that while you're in high school that you complete UM that your p tech program with a STEM Related Associates degree as well as your high school diploma. Obviously, so instead of having a nine to twelve model, so the K to twelve model that we're all familiar with is a kid to fourteen, which means that's an extra two years that a student may use to be able to complete both the diploma and and the the associate's degree in a STEM field. What is unique about petech is the role that industry plays. So there are three parties to every p tech school. There's the high school, there is the community college which offers the associates degree, and then there's the business. What the business does in p tech, which which is really unique in this program in education programs, is that it aligns the degree pathway to what is a growing job area, job area that is in high demand for for the future of work. And then the business provides mentoring for the students, which is to help them build a series of eleven critical skills that are really important for for for work these days. And then the last thing we do is to provide paid internships to provide real experience at work and to expand the network of students UH and also to to to domestify working in the tech space. And then lastly, the students who complete and become graduates of p tech are first in line to be able to take jobs in the companies that their partnered within their p tech school. So, so, Helia, can you tell us a bit about yourself and what led you to get involved with p tech. So when my parents started their divorce, I was in my last year of middle school and my dad was the sole provider of the household. My mom was a stay at home mom, and the reality for me at that time was since I won't be with dad, I don't have money for college and it was really scary. And p Tech was starting in the high school in our area, and I said, hey, this is a really great opportunity if I get chosen to get a college education without having to pay for it. So when I chose to apply, it was just I had a minor interest in tech from when I lived in the Bronx and I was a part of the Lego robotics team at my elementary school, and I thought, if I could just apply that little piece of knowledge to whatever coursework all face in high school, then maybe I have a good chance at surviving college in high school together. So, do you still have a particular interest in robotics or have you moved on to other things. Pe Tech really helped me realize there are multiple sectors in tech, and it's just not engineering per se. Right now, I'm a part of the UX Design Apprenticeship because during my time of Pechech I got to be a CSR intern and I got to realize helping people and interacting with people is something I really love and robotics wasn't anything like that, so it wasn't my passion. And you said, sorry, just for people who aren't familiar. So this user experience. But what is CSR. Oh, it's the Corferent Social Responsibility Team at IBM. Oh great, and uh, Eric, the same thing. Can you tell us a bit about your background, about yourself and your interests and what led you into p tech. Yeah, so what led me to pechech was I went to the orientation where Rushie Davis talked about, um, how you can get a free associate degree along with your high school diploma, and I saw, uh, you know what better way of getting a degree? It's free? And for sure I couldn't probably in debt if it wasn't for for this program. Um. So I'm very thankful to be tech right now, I'm a hardware developer at IBM. I what I do mainly is characterized ships and characterize things inside main frames to better understand our systems and to further progress than for future generations of IBM machines. Now I'm curious, well, what does it mean to characterize a chip? So it would just to be to stress test them. Have you ever played a video game like UH in terms of like a console or PC, as you could tell, like stressing the system would UH differ between you know, playing a game that runs sixty frames per second versus just googling something. So we're just taking different UH workloads and seeing how they how much power, how much UH ampires and stuff like that the chips would produce when running different stress tests. Oh excellent, Okay cool? Will the new BioShock melt my computer? I don't think that's my question? But Joel, let's come back to you. So if you think about p tech as an answer, what is the question? What are the problems it is designed to solve? So, UM, if we mentioned the skills cap before and and just to explain what the skills gap is, is that in the marketplace there are and this has been consistent for for modern ten years UH. The technology is changing jobs very very quickly. So there used to be a couple of companies, tech companies that needed technology skills. Now every company needs technology skills. And what we've seen is that the the the jobs that are available in the marketplace, UM, there are not enough people with skills to actually feel those jobs. Who have the skills to fill those jobs. The paradox of all of this is that there actually is a large population of people who are unemployed, and so so the labor market has people who could be taking these jobs, but they are not. They don't have the skills to take these job. So that's that's the skills go That's one thing that Petech is trying to solve. The second thing that Pete is trying to solve, which is much more fundamental, and it speaks to why we start at ninth grade, is that one way of looking at the labor market is to look at what that gap is between the jobs that are available and and and the skills, and that skills gap right now as we're speaking, or at least before COVID was about seven hundred thousand tech jobs that we're going on field because the skills were not available in the marketplace. The other way to look at that is like why are they not available in the marketplace? And if there were, like which types of people do not have access to those jobs? So there's sometimes where it's not just a matter of skills, but it's a matter of opportunity. So are you getting the option to get a degree. Are you getting the option to get a degree in the in the in the right area that puts you on a path to be able to get a job. Do you have the networks to actually get a job? Would you even find out if this job was going in a place like i DM, do you have the networks to be able to get into that? And so if we look at our society, there are many people who are just locked out of the opportunity. So there's also an opportunity gap. And what Pete is trying to solve is like in the communities that businesses working, how can we create a program away for people who have talent to be matched with the opportunity to get into these jobs, but also to acquire the skills and the credentials to get the job. So if you look at pro tech design, it disintegrated curriculum where you get your associates degree, and then where the Associates degree is really the output is putting you in a place where you can get that job. But then everything about the mentorship and the paid work experiences is about expanding that network and giving you access to where the jobs are. So you have a strong network and you have also a strong visibility to be able to get into the into these jobs. So, Joel, this might overlap with the answer you just gave, but maybe this will get it a different aspect of it. P tech was created about a decade ago, right and roughly in the wake of the Great Recession, when obviously the job's outlook was or had recently been pretty grim for a lot of people. How has the world changed since then? Does p tech still address the same problems it was originally meant to solve, or have new challenges and opportunities presented themselves over the course of the lifetime of p tech. So when, yeah, when petech was created, the unemployment rate I think was about ten percent after um, you know, the financial crisis. And when you look at this big economic shocks that we get, like COVID and the financial crisis, they always lead to to unemployment. What has been strange about what passed not so strange because we see the acceleration of technology, the next relation of technology has only gone faster and faster. Is that even in those types of recession and even now when you look at COVID, the jobs that still continue to remain on field as still continue to grow and be stable at tech jobs. So in a way, pe tech has is more relevant now than than ever, and there's a recognition of that actually in education systems around around the world. So just in the past eighteen months, PETE has grown from about in from eight countries to twenty five countries. And that's because many policymakers around the world are now really seeing the need to be adopting these types of programs into the public education systems that really better prepare people to feel the skills guide, but also in a way that creates that opens of opportunity for people within communities to be able to get access to these jobs. So I would say it's much more relevant and now than ever. I'm we're seeing it in the adoption rates. If you could speak to some specifics and concrete examples, what kind of new tech and tech relategy jobs are really emerging today and in the near future as opposed to in the recent past. Yes, so there are a few jobs that simply I did not exist five years ago, but are really very prominent now or when past when not as prom prominent. So so if we look at cloud and develops jobs, um, there there are new versions of those now that are relevant in the marketplace and that I've developed AI jobs are frankly new in many areas. But then if you look at much more of the stable tech jobs like software development, UM hardware development, which is something that Eric does, UM, you see that there's been not only constant, but they're growing. And also what you early is doing is is user experience design. We're creating so many more products right now that in the hands of consumers that are not mechanical anymore. Where it's about how the consumers react with products and how they interact with them. So there's just a lot of new jobs that have been created, jobs that have changed aged. But the most important thing is that the acceleration of technology means that this continues to we continue to see a very very strong demand in these new jobs. So I guess, as you just alluded to it, it's not just that students who are preparing to enter the workforce today need specific technical skills that are relevant to the jobs that exist, but they also need to be able to adapt to a constantly changing set of requirements for for the you know, the technological world we live in. So I guess this is a question for all three of you. Maybe Joel, we can start with you. Do you think adaptation itself is a skill that can be taught if the tech industry is constantly and rapidly changing, Does the technology education require training on how to adapt to new skills? I think what we what we've all experienced, I guess as students UM and going through the university and going through college, and is that the education system just changes a little slower than the technology space uh and and specifically tech because tech is just moving so fast and frankly, it is hard for any sector, even policies to catch up. UM. So, what I think is unique about Peter in the way that it helps people react to change and continue to learn. Is this idea that we spend a lot more time with the young people, exposing them to what happens in the industry. I think giving people a sense of what is happening in the industry and having them giving them the chance to work with mentors, and giving them the chance to work with the internships, seeing how just the things that they play with in school, how much it changes by the time they get to the internship, how much it changes by the time they get to work. It gives us It gives them the same experience as we have at work, where we know we have to continually learn because it's very clear to us in the way we work just how much things are changing and that we have to keep up our skills. So I think it really starting and giving young people that exposure way be for they have to face that world is something that I think is a critical component of PEA Tech. And so Suhalia and Eric, do you have thoughts about this. Did your educational experience or does your educational experience incorporate that feeling, that feeling that you need to learn how to adapt in addition to just learning, you know, what skills are required today. Uh? Yeah, I could definitely say that it's kind of something you learn while in college or ear decided it's not about just prorarium something. It's about learning how to fix it. It's about identifying the problem, looking at it through multiple UH lenses, and determining what solutions are there, and then eliminating those solutions so you get to the best one. I personally think that learning to adapt doesn't even really only to tech. During my time in pe Tech, all of my teachers, whether it be in English or social studies. They explained that as time goes on, things have to change, and just because you learn how to do something one way doesn't mean it's always going to be that way. And understanding how to study, understanding how to research are all important parts of adapting and making yourself a better person so you're better equipped to solve problems. All right, let's come back to Joel. Here is the need for new technological skills something that primarily affects people in the tech industry, say software and hardware developers, or does this apply to other fields as well. We have a belief in the company at IBM that all jobs are going to be impacted by by technology. So we all, regardless of what we do. When I say technology, the AI specifically an automation impacting all jobs. Um if so, I mean if you if your restaurant right now, your interaction with technology is massive, especially during of it you're probably feeling, you know, most of your your orders and your revenue through a tech interface for for for delivery and take out during this period. And that's just a small example. So we believe that no matter what job you're in, it is really important to get to understand the technologies that are impacting our lives, that are very much keen in our lives and are changing the nature of our work and are changing the nature of our society. One of the things that we've done alongside pe tech is to create a platform called open p tech, and open pe tech is really focused on this. It's about like really helping students, regardless of whether they're in p tech or outside p tech, to learn about these key technologies that are really transforming our lives. And they are cloud, artificial intelligence, there is a cyber u, there is blockchain and so and very much design design thinking, which is a way of how we solve problems. So these are some of the things that I really impacting allies, and I think everybody needs to understand them because they're impacting society, not just jobs. So I'm interested in the way that p tech fuses together secondary and post secondary education in the one unified pathway. I guess, first Joel, what was the thinking behind that design? And then for Eric and to Helio, what is that experience? Like, Yeah, I'm really interested to hear the experience of Eric and here and they they're thinking behind that is that pathways have been proven to impact completion. So they you see pathways a lot in education programs, and they've been shown that when you have built in pathways for students, you you help them complete whatever you're trying to get them to to to the goal. Um So it was another thing is that early college students that take part in any kind of early college ended up going to college. More so, those two things that way existing successful things within the education system were into p tech. Um So this pathway of using both high school and and college was something that was already proven to um at least they are taking the early college were already proven to work for students. The big difference that we brought in was that there was a real clear goal right now, and the goal was that you leave pe Tech with a degree. And so instead of just having early college courses where you can take whatever you like and just have access to early college, this is packaging in such a way that you're taking things at all together actually deliver you something that all of your early college opportunity is really focused on delivering you. This uh, this associate's degree, the associates degree is really the goal in p tech because the high school diploma, it's something that was created in the in the agree and economy, it's not enough anymore to take you to really guarantee you a career. So but at the same time, you don't need a four year degree to be able to get into some of the some some really good well paid jobs right now. I mean the jobs that is advertising right now do not need a four year degree. So there was this point about the asocis degree, which is a critical point to get students too and using these pathways together to allow them to have a strong pathway that was guided where they will be housed in a in a in a in a high school and don't have a drop off points where they have to like finish one and then say okay, I'm going to apply to that and move into a different system. Those things have proven to help students complete So that's why the pathway and is using of those pathways was important in the design and uh Eric and to Haley had what are your thoughts on this, What was the experience like and did you have, say friends or peers to compare the experience with who weren't involved in educational pathways that fused together the associate's degree with the high school experience the same way. Yeah, so for me, the experience went pretty smoothly. UM, but that was fortunate. UM. I think it definitely did sump me up for success without a doubt in terms of like I had exposures to robotics as uh to Haley had and uh I did there for basically all my years in in high school. And not only that, it kind of translated into other courses I took at a college level. And in addition to that, it also sets up a nice foundation, so I didn't stop at my associate's degree. I continue to get my bachelor's. UM. It sets a nice foundation in terms of either you could stop at your associates or not and continue with your bachelor's. I would say the p Tech experience is one of a kind that there's not anything you could compare it to if you've been through the traditional high school model, because you're taking high school classes alongside your college classes, and whether that be in the high school or on a college campus, they're very different. And when you have teachers like at my school that weren't a part of the p tech staff that would teach you alongside your non p tech student colleagues, it was just different seeing how everyone reacted to certain situations. I feel like petech prepares you more for the outside world, app like after high school, what that's gonna look like. Because during my time in pe tech, they were like, Hey, this is how you set yourself up for the future if you want to have an apprenticeship or an internship. And at the same time, my high school friends that weren't in p tech, we're just going about their high school experience, like, Hey, there's a football game on Friday, and I was like, I can't I have a test on Monday. For college, I got to study. So protech really teaches you how do you manage your parming yourself pretty well, and because of that, I feel like it prepared me a lot better for after high school graduation what life was going to look like. Okay, oh, that sounds like it comes back to the question about adaptation, the kind of skills that are applied to anything. Really Yeah, and I I think, I mean Eric somehow managed to just sailed by. But you know, when we talk to PETE students, we definitely see that the schedule can be grueling, which is wonderful that we have so many students who drive through. And so when we look at the graduates that come, we are to our to our business. We finished this, We're looking at people that we know as seriously motivated UM and and I've really shown just by going through this program that it means a lot to them and that they can work, and that they can they can drive through, and that they have discipline. So I think when Joel talks about discipline, it really starts the p text students apart from traditional high school model students, because when you step into the college realm of your course work, your college teachers look at you and go, hey, I know that your sixteen, but I'm not going to treat you like your sixteen because you're being held to a different standard here at the college. And I can't say, you know what, they're sixteen, I'm going to grade them differently because that's not the point of pe Tech. They're trying to give you the skills that adults have so you can go have a career outside of high school. And it was really motivational to be able to see that there were other people like me that I knew that held the same values and disciplines as I did. Because it made the high school. Part of my experience a lot easier because there were people whose goals aligned with mine, so it was a lot easier to make friends and have study groups. So, Joel, let's come back to you. What aspects of pe tech are you most proud of. I'm really proud about his systemic nature. That it is built into the education system. So what I mean is it starts to contribute to the body of knowledge that we have about like how do we think about the education system in the future. So, uh yeah, So I like the fact that that it's not like a private program that you know, a company has created on the site. It's actually built, really built in within the public education system, where the responsibility still for for the curriculum and everything is the same as everywhere else in the public education sector and sector. And then the business is coming to augment and add this alignment. The other effect of that is that we are reaching in and actually making sure that economic growth is inclusive. Um. So, if I just look at our own company, we are firmly creating talent and hiring talent from New York and we're making sure that by the time we're looking for talent, we are not just looking at those who have like uh, you know, who've managed to go to Harvard and to m I T. Which to make sure that we go and give access to young people to be able to to you know, get the qualifications that they need and build the skills that they need to be able to get access as to these jobs. UM. So the talent is there, and the talent needs opportunity. So the other part of that I'm really proud about it is that we are actually creating opportunity for talented young people to be able to bring that talent to benefit our business and that way where we get to grow or when the business is growing and then econ and the economy is growing, it's it's more inclusive with p TEK. So there's only two aspects that I'm really proud of. So, Eric and Shlia, a couple of questions for you to um and we'll start with you. So, Helia, what would you tell a student who's considering going down this path? What would you tell them about about pe TECH? I would tell them it's one of the most rewarding experiences that they could look back on as long as they're serious about it. When I look at my experience in high school. I would look at the students who didn't take petech as seriously, and I would feel bad because they're missing out on this great opportunity because they don't feel passionate about whatever degree we were urging, whether it be cybersecurity, computer science. So I would tell them, if you're not passionate about the degree that you're p tech school offers, don't feel like you have to apply because someone said this is a good idea and you should do it. As long as you're passionate about what you're learning about and you're passionate about making a change in the STEM field, you'll be okay. And there are gonna be so many people you'll meet along the way that are going to help you, whether it be academically or outside of that. In your internships, you'll have mentors who will tell you, hey, this is how you overcome this fear you have about public speaking. I used to be really shy, like something like this would have literally brought me to tears, how scared I would have been. But my mentor was there and was like, hey, baby steps, this is how we're going to accomplish being more outspoken and being more of a people person and if it wasn't for her, if it wasn't for petech, I wouldn't be the person I am today. So I would tell them be passionate and take it very seriously because it's a once in a lifetime opportunity because after high school, petech isn't an option. Awesome, what about you, Eric, I would definitely tell them if this is the path they want to take, because there are different pea techs out there, like I think there are even some now that are catered to the medical field. Um. So I would tell them to make sure that's what you want to do, because sometimes you get into it or sometimes you're not really passionate about it and you end up leaving or you end up not caring. Um. Oh. And I would also tell them that, you know, definitely, um, you're gonna have to take some time out of your day to study, take some time out every day to really just apply yourself because it is it is a workload, uh, but it is rewarding at the end. So I would say that the coolest part of pre tech is it's gender inclusive. And I'm really proud of the efforts that the pre tech model puts forward to include females in STEM professions. I remember when I took my first college class, the class before us that was in the room, there were only two girls in the class that left, and the rest of the class was boys. And when my class entered the room, I looked around and I realized there was actually a fifty split of girls and boys in that room, and it felt really empowering to know that me and my female classmates were going to be a part of generation of STEMP professionals that younger girls could look up to. And at my school we had the she Can stem event every March for Women's History Month, which was something I implemented during my time as an entering and being able to look at middle school girls in the school district and say, hey, I'm a girl in a computer profession, which is really crazy considering any time you ask them what an engineer looks like, what a computer scientist looks like, they usually say someone like Steve drops and no offense, but it's always a guy. And being able to be a girl that younger girls could look up to was really cool. And p tech is the only platform I've ever seen give women a chance to say, hey, I enjoy technology, and I'm really good at what I do. So they gave us a voice to be like, hey, I have something I can bring to the table, and it made you feel comfortable speaking out. So finally, Joel, what do you see for the future for this program and for programs like it? UM, I'll send of you my hopes. I hope that they continue to to inspire mkas and education leaders about how we should be looking. UM had continually improving our education system going forward with the world that we have right now and with the challenges that we we face. UM, I then that's that's so, that's that's my hopes we have. P tech is a mature model right now, is ten years old, and so it is clear that it's working. There has been a report that has just been published by an independent party m NDRC, which has shown that students are actually getting better outcoms as a resort of of p tech. We're seeing as more schools mature than more of our graduates going to college and getting hired. Also in companies like our like ours and there's nobs are growing. So from an impact perspective, we we we know that it works UM, so we are really looking for making sure that that we the publishing poblicy makers get inspired by it and and and take it up and implemented in as many places as possible. What I'm excited about is that I think it's a privilege to get to work on some of the problems that we're working on as a company. We just by the nature of being a large globle company, we get to see really interesting problems that are brought to us via clients that helped to change the world. And I think it's wonderful that we are creating the opportunity for people who are talented like as Failier and and Eric to be able to bring their talents to work on these types of problems. It's I think we should make sure that that people inside to get the chance to work on world changing things. And so I'm really excited by the fact that we are working in areas where we're giving students real opportunity to take that talents and contribute to work problems that they can be really proud it off. And so and then so I want to see pe Tech in more states, in more schools, and just continue to see the model grow both in the US and internationally. All Right, well, thanks again to Joel so Halia and Eric for chatting with us today. Again, if you want to hear more from this series, you can look up the episodes of our show as well as episodes of tech Stuff labeled smart Talks. To learn more about smart Talks, you can go to IBM dot com slash smart Talks, and to read more about p tech you can check out www dot PTech dot org. And of course, if you want to hear other episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind, you can find us wherever you get your podcast huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a topic for the future, or just to say hello, you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Today, we're going to be talking about IBM's role in an educational model known as p Tech, which was established inn with a mission to empower students with the skills they need for careers in STEM. We'll be talking with Joe L. Mangan, executive director of the p Tech Program at IBM, as well as PTech graduate and hardware developer Eric Cholula Martinez and p tech graduate and IBM apprentice Suhlia Karam Doran. If you want to hear previous entries in this series, you can simply look up the episodes labeled smart Talks and our feed from earlier this year, and you can also check out the episodes of smart Talks on the I Heart Media podcast tech Stuff. And now let's jump right into our conversation. Joel, let's start with you. Can you tell us a bit about yourself, your background and how you wound up working for IBM. Yes, so um I joined pe Tech just about over a year ago. I am actually a recent American. I was born in Africa in the country call Cameroon and uh and I moved to the US about eight years ago after you know, doing work and studying in in the UK and working all over Europe, in Student and Denmark, mainly in IBMS consulting business. So I joined our CSR team a couple of years ago and this has been my most exciting work at IBM doing this work at p Tech. Now, what led you to get involved specifically in education? UM? Education has always played a really important role in my life. I have benefited from a lot of opportunities that my my ps did not get and the outcomes in our lives has been is very very clear to see us as we've all got gotten older. Also, my mom was an avid believer in education. She stopped her education at the age of thirteen, and she was so insistent that we get the best education that we that we could get and that we took it seriously. I was really inspirational was that after she had six children and she was thirty five at the time, she went back to school and she studied to become a teacher and she was an elementary school teacher for the rest of our life. So it's something that has been a really passionating in our family. So we work a lot in education, but mainly in access to education, and this is my first foray really into the systematic part of education. Well, let's talk about about p tech for a second then, So, so first of all, can you just tell us what p tech is, what it stands for, and then how does it work. PETE stands for Pathways to Technology Early College, high School and so now you know, I we just call it pe tech UM. So PETER was conceived ten years ago to have a different and innovative way to tackle the skills gap. I think we can talk about the skills gap in a minute, but focus really on how p tech works. UM. Pe tech allows ninth graders in a p tech school to complete a STEM related Associates degree and the high school diploma at the same time. So the aim of the program is that while you're in high school that you complete UM that your p tech program with a STEM Related Associates degree as well as your high school diploma. Obviously, so instead of having a nine to twelve model, so the K to twelve model that we're all familiar with is a kid to fourteen, which means that's an extra two years that a student may use to be able to complete both the diploma and and the the associate's degree in a STEM field. What is unique about petech is the role that industry plays. So there are three parties to every p tech school. There's the high school, there is the community college which offers the associates degree, and then there's the business. What the business does in p tech, which which is really unique in this program in education programs, is that it aligns the degree pathway to what is a growing job area, job area that is in high demand for for the future of work. And then the business provides mentoring for the students, which is to help them build a series of eleven critical skills that are really important for for for work these days. And then the last thing we do is to provide paid internships to provide real experience at work and to expand the network of students UH and also to to to domestify working in the tech space. And then lastly, the students who complete and become graduates of p tech are first in line to be able to take jobs in the companies that their partnered within their p tech school. So, so, Helia, can you tell us a bit about yourself and what led you to get involved with p tech. So when my parents started their divorce, I was in my last year of middle school and my dad was the sole provider of the household. My mom was a stay at home mom, and the reality for me at that time was since I won't be with dad, I don't have money for college and it was really scary. And p Tech was starting in the high school in our area, and I said, hey, this is a really great opportunity if I get chosen to get a college education without having to pay for it. So when I chose to apply, it was just I had a minor interest in tech from when I lived in the Bronx and I was a part of the Lego robotics team at my elementary school, and I thought, if I could just apply that little piece of knowledge to whatever coursework all face in high school, then maybe I have a good chance at surviving college in high school together. So, do you still have a particular interest in robotics or have you moved on to other things. Pe Tech really helped me realize there are multiple sectors in tech, and it's just not engineering per se. Right now, I'm a part of the UX Design Apprenticeship because during my time of Pechech I got to be a CSR intern and I got to realize helping people and interacting with people is something I really love and robotics wasn't anything like that, so it wasn't my passion. And you said, sorry, just for people who aren't familiar. So this user experience. But what is CSR. Oh, it's the Corferent Social Responsibility Team at IBM. Oh great, and uh, Eric, the same thing. Can you tell us a bit about your background, about yourself and your interests and what led you into p tech. Yeah, so what led me to pechech was I went to the orientation where Rushie Davis talked about, um, how you can get a free associate degree along with your high school diploma, and I saw, uh, you know what better way of getting a degree? It's free? And for sure I couldn't probably in debt if it wasn't for for this program. Um. So I'm very thankful to be tech right now, I'm a hardware developer at IBM. I what I do mainly is characterized ships and characterize things inside main frames to better understand our systems and to further progress than for future generations of IBM machines. Now I'm curious, well, what does it mean to characterize a chip? So it would just to be to stress test them. Have you ever played a video game like UH in terms of like a console or PC, as you could tell, like stressing the system would UH differ between you know, playing a game that runs sixty frames per second versus just googling something. So we're just taking different UH workloads and seeing how they how much power, how much UH ampires and stuff like that the chips would produce when running different stress tests. Oh excellent, Okay cool? Will the new BioShock melt my computer? I don't think that's my question? But Joel, let's come back to you. So if you think about p tech as an answer, what is the question? What are the problems it is designed to solve? So, UM, if we mentioned the skills cap before and and just to explain what the skills gap is, is that in the marketplace there are and this has been consistent for for modern ten years UH. The technology is changing jobs very very quickly. So there used to be a couple of companies, tech companies that needed technology skills. Now every company needs technology skills. And what we've seen is that the the the jobs that are available in the marketplace, UM, there are not enough people with skills to actually feel those jobs. Who have the skills to fill those jobs. The paradox of all of this is that there actually is a large population of people who are unemployed, and so so the labor market has people who could be taking these jobs, but they are not. They don't have the skills to take these job. So that's that's the skills go That's one thing that Petech is trying to solve. The second thing that Pete is trying to solve, which is much more fundamental, and it speaks to why we start at ninth grade, is that one way of looking at the labor market is to look at what that gap is between the jobs that are available and and and the skills, and that skills gap right now as we're speaking, or at least before COVID was about seven hundred thousand tech jobs that we're going on field because the skills were not available in the marketplace. The other way to look at that is like why are they not available in the marketplace? And if there were, like which types of people do not have access to those jobs? So there's sometimes where it's not just a matter of skills, but it's a matter of opportunity. So are you getting the option to get a degree. Are you getting the option to get a degree in the in the in the right area that puts you on a path to be able to get a job. Do you have the networks to actually get a job? Would you even find out if this job was going in a place like i DM, do you have the networks to be able to get into that? And so if we look at our society, there are many people who are just locked out of the opportunity. So there's also an opportunity gap. And what Pete is trying to solve is like in the communities that businesses working, how can we create a program away for people who have talent to be matched with the opportunity to get into these jobs, but also to acquire the skills and the credentials to get the job. So if you look at pro tech design, it disintegrated curriculum where you get your associates degree, and then where the Associates degree is really the output is putting you in a place where you can get that job. But then everything about the mentorship and the paid work experiences is about expanding that network and giving you access to where the jobs are. So you have a strong network and you have also a strong visibility to be able to get into the into these jobs. So, Joel, this might overlap with the answer you just gave, but maybe this will get it a different aspect of it. P tech was created about a decade ago, right and roughly in the wake of the Great Recession, when obviously the job's outlook was or had recently been pretty grim for a lot of people. How has the world changed since then? Does p tech still address the same problems it was originally meant to solve, or have new challenges and opportunities presented themselves over the course of the lifetime of p tech. So when, yeah, when petech was created, the unemployment rate I think was about ten percent after um, you know, the financial crisis. And when you look at this big economic shocks that we get, like COVID and the financial crisis, they always lead to to unemployment. What has been strange about what passed not so strange because we see the acceleration of technology, the next relation of technology has only gone faster and faster. Is that even in those types of recession and even now when you look at COVID, the jobs that still continue to remain on field as still continue to grow and be stable at tech jobs. So in a way, pe tech has is more relevant now than than ever, and there's a recognition of that actually in education systems around around the world. So just in the past eighteen months, PETE has grown from about in from eight countries to twenty five countries. And that's because many policymakers around the world are now really seeing the need to be adopting these types of programs into the public education systems that really better prepare people to feel the skills guide, but also in a way that creates that opens of opportunity for people within communities to be able to get access to these jobs. So I would say it's much more relevant and now than ever. I'm we're seeing it in the adoption rates. If you could speak to some specifics and concrete examples, what kind of new tech and tech relategy jobs are really emerging today and in the near future as opposed to in the recent past. Yes, so there are a few jobs that simply I did not exist five years ago, but are really very prominent now or when past when not as prom prominent. So so if we look at cloud and develops jobs, um, there there are new versions of those now that are relevant in the marketplace and that I've developed AI jobs are frankly new in many areas. But then if you look at much more of the stable tech jobs like software development, UM hardware development, which is something that Eric does, UM, you see that there's been not only constant, but they're growing. And also what you early is doing is is user experience design. We're creating so many more products right now that in the hands of consumers that are not mechanical anymore. Where it's about how the consumers react with products and how they interact with them. So there's just a lot of new jobs that have been created, jobs that have changed aged. But the most important thing is that the acceleration of technology means that this continues to we continue to see a very very strong demand in these new jobs. So I guess, as you just alluded to it, it's not just that students who are preparing to enter the workforce today need specific technical skills that are relevant to the jobs that exist, but they also need to be able to adapt to a constantly changing set of requirements for for the you know, the technological world we live in. So I guess this is a question for all three of you. Maybe Joel, we can start with you. Do you think adaptation itself is a skill that can be taught if the tech industry is constantly and rapidly changing, Does the technology education require training on how to adapt to new skills? I think what we what we've all experienced, I guess as students UM and going through the university and going through college, and is that the education system just changes a little slower than the technology space uh and and specifically tech because tech is just moving so fast and frankly, it is hard for any sector, even policies to catch up. UM. So, what I think is unique about Peter in the way that it helps people react to change and continue to learn. Is this idea that we spend a lot more time with the young people, exposing them to what happens in the industry. I think giving people a sense of what is happening in the industry and having them giving them the chance to work with mentors, and giving them the chance to work with the internships, seeing how just the things that they play with in school, how much it changes by the time they get to the internship, how much it changes by the time they get to work. It gives us It gives them the same experience as we have at work, where we know we have to continually learn because it's very clear to us in the way we work just how much things are changing and that we have to keep up our skills. So I think it really starting and giving young people that exposure way be for they have to face that world is something that I think is a critical component of PEA Tech. And so Suhalia and Eric, do you have thoughts about this. Did your educational experience or does your educational experience incorporate that feeling, that feeling that you need to learn how to adapt in addition to just learning, you know, what skills are required today. Uh? Yeah, I could definitely say that it's kind of something you learn while in college or ear decided it's not about just prorarium something. It's about learning how to fix it. It's about identifying the problem, looking at it through multiple UH lenses, and determining what solutions are there, and then eliminating those solutions so you get to the best one. I personally think that learning to adapt doesn't even really only to tech. During my time in pe Tech, all of my teachers, whether it be in English or social studies. They explained that as time goes on, things have to change, and just because you learn how to do something one way doesn't mean it's always going to be that way. And understanding how to study, understanding how to research are all important parts of adapting and making yourself a better person so you're better equipped to solve problems. All right, let's come back to Joel. Here is the need for new technological skills something that primarily affects people in the tech industry, say software and hardware developers, or does this apply to other fields as well. We have a belief in the company at IBM that all jobs are going to be impacted by by technology. So we all, regardless of what we do. When I say technology, the AI specifically an automation impacting all jobs. Um if so, I mean if you if your restaurant right now, your interaction with technology is massive, especially during of it you're probably feeling, you know, most of your your orders and your revenue through a tech interface for for for delivery and take out during this period. And that's just a small example. So we believe that no matter what job you're in, it is really important to get to understand the technologies that are impacting our lives, that are very much keen in our lives and are changing the nature of our work and are changing the nature of our society. One of the things that we've done alongside pe tech is to create a platform called open p tech, and open pe tech is really focused on this. It's about like really helping students, regardless of whether they're in p tech or outside p tech, to learn about these key technologies that are really transforming our lives. And they are cloud, artificial intelligence, there is a cyber u, there is blockchain and so and very much design design thinking, which is a way of how we solve problems. So these are some of the things that I really impacting allies, and I think everybody needs to understand them because they're impacting society, not just jobs. So I'm interested in the way that p tech fuses together secondary and post secondary education in the one unified pathway. I guess, first Joel, what was the thinking behind that design? And then for Eric and to Helio, what is that experience? Like, Yeah, I'm really interested to hear the experience of Eric and here and they they're thinking behind that is that pathways have been proven to impact completion. So they you see pathways a lot in education programs, and they've been shown that when you have built in pathways for students, you you help them complete whatever you're trying to get them to to to the goal. Um So it was another thing is that early college students that take part in any kind of early college ended up going to college. More so, those two things that way existing successful things within the education system were into p tech. Um So this pathway of using both high school and and college was something that was already proven to um at least they are taking the early college were already proven to work for students. The big difference that we brought in was that there was a real clear goal right now, and the goal was that you leave pe Tech with a degree. And so instead of just having early college courses where you can take whatever you like and just have access to early college, this is packaging in such a way that you're taking things at all together actually deliver you something that all of your early college opportunity is really focused on delivering you. This uh, this associate's degree, the associates degree is really the goal in p tech because the high school diploma, it's something that was created in the in the agree and economy, it's not enough anymore to take you to really guarantee you a career. So but at the same time, you don't need a four year degree to be able to get into some of the some some really good well paid jobs right now. I mean the jobs that is advertising right now do not need a four year degree. So there was this point about the asocis degree, which is a critical point to get students too and using these pathways together to allow them to have a strong pathway that was guided where they will be housed in a in a in a in a high school and don't have a drop off points where they have to like finish one and then say okay, I'm going to apply to that and move into a different system. Those things have proven to help students complete So that's why the pathway and is using of those pathways was important in the design and uh Eric and to Haley had what are your thoughts on this, What was the experience like and did you have, say friends or peers to compare the experience with who weren't involved in educational pathways that fused together the associate's degree with the high school experience the same way. Yeah, so for me, the experience went pretty smoothly. UM, but that was fortunate. UM. I think it definitely did sump me up for success without a doubt in terms of like I had exposures to robotics as uh to Haley had and uh I did there for basically all my years in in high school. And not only that, it kind of translated into other courses I took at a college level. And in addition to that, it also sets up a nice foundation, so I didn't stop at my associate's degree. I continue to get my bachelor's. UM. It sets a nice foundation in terms of either you could stop at your associates or not and continue with your bachelor's. I would say the p Tech experience is one of a kind that there's not anything you could compare it to if you've been through the traditional high school model, because you're taking high school classes alongside your college classes, and whether that be in the high school or on a college campus, they're very different. And when you have teachers like at my school that weren't a part of the p tech staff that would teach you alongside your non p tech student colleagues, it was just different seeing how everyone reacted to certain situations. I feel like petech prepares you more for the outside world, app like after high school, what that's gonna look like. Because during my time in pe tech, they were like, Hey, this is how you set yourself up for the future if you want to have an apprenticeship or an internship. And at the same time, my high school friends that weren't in p tech, we're just going about their high school experience, like, Hey, there's a football game on Friday, and I was like, I can't I have a test on Monday. For college, I got to study. So protech really teaches you how do you manage your parming yourself pretty well, and because of that, I feel like it prepared me a lot better for after high school graduation what life was going to look like. Okay, oh, that sounds like it comes back to the question about adaptation, the kind of skills that are applied to anything. Really Yeah, and I I think, I mean Eric somehow managed to just sailed by. But you know, when we talk to PETE students, we definitely see that the schedule can be grueling, which is wonderful that we have so many students who drive through. And so when we look at the graduates that come, we are to our to our business. We finished this, We're looking at people that we know as seriously motivated UM and and I've really shown just by going through this program that it means a lot to them and that they can work, and that they can they can drive through, and that they have discipline. So I think when Joel talks about discipline, it really starts the p text students apart from traditional high school model students, because when you step into the college realm of your course work, your college teachers look at you and go, hey, I know that your sixteen, but I'm not going to treat you like your sixteen because you're being held to a different standard here at the college. And I can't say, you know what, they're sixteen, I'm going to grade them differently because that's not the point of pe Tech. They're trying to give you the skills that adults have so you can go have a career outside of high school. And it was really motivational to be able to see that there were other people like me that I knew that held the same values and disciplines as I did. Because it made the high school. Part of my experience a lot easier because there were people whose goals aligned with mine, so it was a lot easier to make friends and have study groups. So, Joel, let's come back to you. What aspects of pe tech are you most proud of. I'm really proud about his systemic nature. That it is built into the education system. So what I mean is it starts to contribute to the body of knowledge that we have about like how do we think about the education system in the future. So, uh yeah, So I like the fact that that it's not like a private program that you know, a company has created on the site. It's actually built, really built in within the public education system, where the responsibility still for for the curriculum and everything is the same as everywhere else in the public education sector and sector. And then the business is coming to augment and add this alignment. The other effect of that is that we are reaching in and actually making sure that economic growth is inclusive. Um. So, if I just look at our own company, we are firmly creating talent and hiring talent from New York and we're making sure that by the time we're looking for talent, we are not just looking at those who have like uh, you know, who've managed to go to Harvard and to m I T. Which to make sure that we go and give access to young people to be able to to you know, get the qualifications that they need and build the skills that they need to be able to get access as to these jobs. UM. So the talent is there, and the talent needs opportunity. So the other part of that I'm really proud about it is that we are actually creating opportunity for talented young people to be able to bring that talent to benefit our business and that way where we get to grow or when the business is growing and then econ and the economy is growing, it's it's more inclusive with p TEK. So there's only two aspects that I'm really proud of. So, Eric and Shlia, a couple of questions for you to um and we'll start with you. So, Helia, what would you tell a student who's considering going down this path? What would you tell them about about pe TECH? I would tell them it's one of the most rewarding experiences that they could look back on as long as they're serious about it. When I look at my experience in high school. I would look at the students who didn't take petech as seriously, and I would feel bad because they're missing out on this great opportunity because they don't feel passionate about whatever degree we were urging, whether it be cybersecurity, computer science. So I would tell them, if you're not passionate about the degree that you're p tech school offers, don't feel like you have to apply because someone said this is a good idea and you should do it. As long as you're passionate about what you're learning about and you're passionate about making a change in the STEM field, you'll be okay. And there are gonna be so many people you'll meet along the way that are going to help you, whether it be academically or outside of that. In your internships, you'll have mentors who will tell you, hey, this is how you overcome this fear you have about public speaking. I used to be really shy, like something like this would have literally brought me to tears, how scared I would have been. But my mentor was there and was like, hey, baby steps, this is how we're going to accomplish being more outspoken and being more of a people person and if it wasn't for her, if it wasn't for petech, I wouldn't be the person I am today. So I would tell them be passionate and take it very seriously because it's a once in a lifetime opportunity because after high school, petech isn't an option. Awesome, what about you, Eric, I would definitely tell them if this is the path they want to take, because there are different pea techs out there, like I think there are even some now that are catered to the medical field. Um. So I would tell them to make sure that's what you want to do, because sometimes you get into it or sometimes you're not really passionate about it and you end up leaving or you end up not caring. Um. Oh. And I would also tell them that, you know, definitely, um, you're gonna have to take some time out of your day to study, take some time out every day to really just apply yourself because it is it is a workload, uh, but it is rewarding at the end. So I would say that the coolest part of pre tech is it's gender inclusive. And I'm really proud of the efforts that the pre tech model puts forward to include females in STEM professions. I remember when I took my first college class, the class before us that was in the room, there were only two girls in the class that left, and the rest of the class was boys. And when my class entered the room, I looked around and I realized there was actually a fifty split of girls and boys in that room, and it felt really empowering to know that me and my female classmates were going to be a part of generation of STEMP professionals that younger girls could look up to. And at my school we had the she Can stem event every March for Women's History Month, which was something I implemented during my time as an entering and being able to look at middle school girls in the school district and say, hey, I'm a girl in a computer profession, which is really crazy considering any time you ask them what an engineer looks like, what a computer scientist looks like, they usually say someone like Steve drops and no offense, but it's always a guy. And being able to be a girl that younger girls could look up to was really cool. And p tech is the only platform I've ever seen give women a chance to say, hey, I enjoy technology, and I'm really good at what I do. So they gave us a voice to be like, hey, I have something I can bring to the table, and it made you feel comfortable speaking out. So finally, Joel, what do you see for the future for this program and for programs like it? UM, I'll send of you my hopes. I hope that they continue to to inspire mkas and education leaders about how we should be looking. UM had continually improving our education system going forward with the world that we have right now and with the challenges that we we face. UM, I then that's that's so, that's that's my hopes we have. P tech is a mature model right now, is ten years old, and so it is clear that it's working. There has been a report that has just been published by an independent party m NDRC, which has shown that students are actually getting better outcoms as a resort of of p tech. We're seeing as more schools mature than more of our graduates going to college and getting hired. Also in companies like our like ours and there's nobs are growing. So from an impact perspective, we we we know that it works UM, so we are really looking for making sure that that we the publishing poblicy makers get inspired by it and and and take it up and implemented in as many places as possible. What I'm excited about is that I think it's a privilege to get to work on some of the problems that we're working on as a company. We just by the nature of being a large globle company, we get to see really interesting problems that are brought to us via clients that helped to change the world. And I think it's wonderful that we are creating the opportunity for people who are talented like as Failier and and Eric to be able to bring their talents to work on these types of problems. It's I think we should make sure that that people inside to get the chance to work on world changing things. And so I'm really excited by the fact that we are working in areas where we're giving students real opportunity to take that talents and contribute to work problems that they can be really proud it off. And so and then so I want to see pe Tech in more states, in more schools, and just continue to see the model grow both in the US and internationally. All Right, well, thanks again to Joel so Halia and Eric for chatting with us today. Again, if you want to hear more from this series, you can look up the episodes of our show as well as episodes of tech Stuff labeled smart Talks. To learn more about smart Talks, you can go to IBM dot com slash smart Talks, and to read more about p tech you can check out www dot PTech dot org. And of course, if you want to hear other episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind, you can find us wherever you get your podcast huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get in touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a topic for the future, or just to say hello, you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.