Before we begin today's episode, we have an announcement for you, fellow conspiracy realists. This is something that we are massively excited about. We've been working on it for a while and astute listeners, you'll notice we've been hinting about it for what would you say, guys, a month or so. That's right, you've been asking for more episodes, and we have granted thine wishes. Usually the fanfare comes before the announcement, but I think it still works. It's true we're going to five episodes a week. You're still going to get the deep dive stuff they don't want to know episodes you're used to every Wednesday and Friday, but we're introducing a few other new styles of episode into the mix as well. We often say that you, specifically, you are the most important part of this show. We're putting our money where our metaphorical mouth is here, and we'll have a special listener mail episode each and every single week. We'll also have up to the minute ish conspiracy news on our Strange News segment, which comes out on Mondays. And for everyone who's written to us searching for the older episodes that you just can't find on Apple podcast will be reintroducing our classics to the feet, so we hope you are as excited as we are. Look forward to lots more than Matt Noel and Mission Control coming to you very soon. This episode contains explicit language, frank conversation, and we wanted to let you know going in. If you're a person who is bothered by curse words, perhaps this is not for you. Yes, this is a little bit of a different type of conversation that you might be used to on stuff that it wants you to know. Um, we and our guests dive deep into some very frank conversations around race and politics and a lot of the things that are going on right now in the world. So just before one oh and one more thing, we recorded this in mid June, so you're gonna hear us reference a couple of events that were current at the time but have already resolved or have evolved since then. So just keep that in mind as you're listening. From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of My Heart Radio Hello, Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name isn't all They called me Ben. We are joined as always with our super producer Paul Mission controlled decades. Most importantly, you are you, You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. In the age of ubiquitous information, it's no secret that protests are waged as much online as they are in the streets, and there is an ongoing struggle with many participants to control the narrative of events, to spend the stories you see on the news, here, on the radio, or hear from your friends on social media. Today's questions where do these discrepancies come from? And how do we combat them? Now? What we'd like to do in today's episode is to explore a number of wide ranging topics with some help from our peer podcasters, the host of one of our newest and in my opinion, best shows on the I Heart Network, Waiting on Reparations. We are immensely fortunate to be joined today with Dope Knife and Link with Franca. Thank you so much for coming onto the show today. Yeah, it's tough to be here. Thank you as for having us. Let's just maybe have you guys introduce yourselves and tell us about eating on reparations. So link with if you don't mind, can we start with you? Yeah? So um I UM a linguists, an educator, UM, a rapper, community organizer, and a politician here in Athens, Georgia. I've been organizing in the community since two thousand sixteen. Started off doing it around hip hop shows and then later translating those skills into electoral campaign work, and then decided to run for off myself. So um. I got my Masters and linguistics at the University of Georgia in two thousand seventeen. Currently working on my PhD and trying to kick gas, take names, transform some broken systems. Uh that I think a lot of us are seeing across the country need transforming. Uh. So it's really great to have this podcast at a time where people are looking for direction in this movement, like what does it look like to transform things in a localized way? What does it look like on the ground organizing in these communities? Is that needed? Um? So, Yeah, it's a little bit about me. What about you? Mac oh um. My name is Dope Knife Um. I'm a rapper producer from Savannah, Georgia. Originally from Liberia, um son of a diplomat. I grew up overseas. I used to work for the State Department at one point in time before I started rapping. I've toured all over the country, and uh, I'm pretty pretty good at rapping, and you're an amazing illustrated Yes, I'm also a comic book artist, and I direct and edit music videos, and I'm also the producer as well as co host of the Waiting on Reparations podcast. So so do linquick? Could you tell us a little bit about the impetus that led to the creation of Waiting on Reparations and maybe describe what our audience encounters when they hear an episode. Well, frankly, I've been a fan of Mac for many years before we'd be came collaborators, and so when we went on tour together back into thousand seventeen, we got to learn a lot about each other's politics and are like music and come to appreciate each other's perspectives on both those things. And so when no reached out to me about doing this podcast, he was the first person I thought of. In fact, he was living in Savannah at the time, and I invited him to come move into my house so that we could do this podcasts together. But um, given his background with international travel and his expertise in LIKE media and my expertise with like policy making at a local level, I just made sense to bring together a podcast that touches on both of those worlds in our brains and help listeners to hip hop or followers of UH political developments across the country to synthesize those ideas and kind of see the way they relate through this show. Yeah. I mean think the tour that we went on is probably the most like, you know, the biggest revelation and the fact that we'd be able to work together, because it was like a solid with two three weeks just being on the road and we're just hanging out and just talking and getting to know each other better. Because like when we first initially met, it was like I was at a show and we were talking like over loud music in a in a club while another performer was going on. And then after that it was just like Facebook and internet correspondence. So for that first time of us being able to go on tour and then especially then it was like, oh ship, you're wrapping now and you've got an album and you're on tour ship all right, you know, so getting to know her better like that, and seeing the type of chemistry that we had, just in terms of the conversations we would have, like when we're not being recorded, it was like, okay, yeah, we could. We could definitely do a podcast and have it be dope, so listeners will get a taste of um. The way that hip hop us influence public policy, anything from like back in the nineties with the Crime Bill, the way that gangster rap was being investigated by the Senate Judiciary Committee and like and how that influenced mass incarceration that followed the ninety four crime though, to the way that hip hop artists have pushed forward messages of social change through their music, to the way that poblic policy has shaped the history of hip hop, you know, anything from policy around sex work to labor rights to again mass incarceration, the way that has inflected hip hop as we know it. And so those are the kinds of things that you'll end up hearing when you listen to Writing on Reparations. The first episode of your of your podcast addresses the current events that are happening since George Floyd's murder, and I think maybe our audience would be very interested in your take on the situation from that, from that policy making, actually knowing where there are things that can be done, places where improvement can can be done. Uh, maybe just give us your take on what's happening with the movement to seek change right now. Ultimately, for me, it depends on where everyone's head is at, because like, right now, there's it's definitely like the beginning of it where everyone's got emotion behind them, and emotion is needed because it's got people out there in the streets and it's bringing attention to, you know, things that need to be done. But I think now it's going to start moving into the phase of is there like a solid policy goal behind it? You know, so far it seems to be so far to defund the police seems to be the flagship that everyone's like writing on. But only time will tell with things like like this, you know, like right now, I think what makes this different is just this unique situation that we're in where we've got a global pandemic and then we're in a damn near recession, if not a full on recession. Then you go and add this to the mix, and it's just like a spark that starts civil unrest. It's the sort of thing where I think if George Floyd had just if George, if George Floyd had happened at any other time, then I think it would be a situation where people would be mad for about two weeks and then we'd go on about our lives, you know what I mean. But now I think the urgency of the times that we live in just make everything that much more heightened. And that's what I think has people really energized to be like, no funk this. I mean, something has to change, and it has to change now. You know, there's no no more of this like waiting for for stuff to like incrementally change. We've got to like get out there and make it happen now. And when we're talking about making it happen, you know, people have been calling to defund the police, but taking to the streets to that end, It's only so effective. You can raise awareness, you can cause mass disruption that draws attention to the this um this need, but it really requires folks at the local level, in my opinion, to start to get to know their local government to add their local government's budget especially and start making concrete, tangible demands for the reallocation of funds if that's what people are desiring for from this, which I agree is necessary. We've seen that reforms haven't worked. Chokeholds were already banned in places, and people keep dying from them anyway. Um, cops keep getting more training in de escalation and use of force, but the cop that shot Rachard Brooks, you know, that didn't stop him from murdering a man, even though he'd recently received that training. And so I am one of those folks that is um joining in calls to the funding police. But it requires understanding their current funding. Requires looking at that several hundred page document and understanding where that money is going and where that money isn't going in terms of community investments, to understand how much we're spending on housing and social work and wellness and community programs, and whether or not we're fully meeting the needs of the community, and how we can better allocate funds to actually support folks and not getting you know, not uh falling asleep in a Wendy's parking lot because they're too funked up or whatever. So yeah, so what do we do now? People are up in arms, a lot of folks that haven't been involved in organizing before. But it's really critical that folks come to understand the local governments, especially because cysically we're not educated and how to get involved in our local government. All the focuses on the federal level and you know, somewhat so on the state level, and we ignore who our county commissioners are and who our city counselors are and we need to when but we can go to that person's house and demand change. We can like write them a letter or call them on the phone and they'll actually pick up the phone. And so that is like, to me, the critical uh pressure point that people need to be taking advantage of and like and exploring and learning more about and leaning on absolutely. And I think people get really caught up in like getting disenchanted by, oh, I only have so much power, and it's all about like you know, national elections rather than state elections or local government, and so people kind of like lose sight of some of those ways that you can't actually affect change on that level. I think that's a really good good advice just in general, just kind of be more aware of these levers that you have at your disposal. I mean, the government is technically there to serve you in the community, and it's up to you to get involved and to reach out and to ask questions and to you know, investigate this kind of stuff. But I'd like to just really quickly double back to the idea of defunding the police on its surface and as a rallying cry, and if you don't really know anything about it, it it seems really extreme. It seems like really radical, like let's get rid of police. People will say, well, who's going to protect us? You know what happens then it's gonna be chaos in the streets. And I think it's really important to point out that that's not what that means. It's more what you said where it's like, where is that money going. I saw a meme or something where I was like, how come teachers have to buy their own supplies, but every cop gets a Captain America a shield. You know, It's like the amount of money that's like it costs to like outfit a health worker in Ppe pales in comparison to what it costs to outfit a police officer and right here. So it's just, you know, it's all about that kind of like disconnect, I think, and I think, you know, the idea of saying defund the police. It's easy to get worked up about that and say, oh, that's absurd, that's extreme. But I don't know, i'd let's just talk a little bit more about what that actually means at heart and and and what it looks like. Yeah, I kinda, I kind of. I mean, personally, I think that, um, you know, I've I've heard the argument that it's like it's not on the the burdens, not on the people who are out there to to come up with a slogan that's fitting or suitable, and I completely understand that, but just in terms of messaging, I think it's a pretty stupid name for what they mean because it's well, I think I think that the issue isn't like, well, it wasn't up to them to come up with a good slogan. It's that these folks have been organizing on the ground and studying the work up abolitionist thinkers for decades, and so if they decided that this is what they wanted to go with, it's not that they just made it up on the fly. It's like, this is an intentional effort and we should get behind them. From a principal standpoint, I totally get that. It's just it's just a matter of everybody who I hear talking about defund the police always has to like start with it doesn't actually mean. Well, if if defund the police legitimately meant defund the police, like what those words mean, then that's what we mean. That it does literally mean take money away from police departments. Well, I mean it doesn't it more so. I mean maybe it's me misunderstanding it, but from it seems like it more means like reallocating funds for police departments, like for example, you know the whole notion of um, why send somebody who's arm to go answer like a situation that's not a dangerous situation. I literally had a constituent this morning text me to say that they were on a walk with their dog and saw a man laying down in his yard who, when approached, wasn't able to identify himself by name, and so they were trying to figure out They didn't want to call nine one one, but they wanted to get this man help. Unfortunately, one of their other neighbors called nine one, one, and four cop cars showed up. Does that make that man laying in his yard feel safer to know that, oh good, there's a bunch of dudes with guns here now. And so I also conceptualized this as like reimagining public safety, uh, diversifying the way we address community crisis and crisis prevention. So, I mean, I get whatever critiques people want to have about defund the police, but the organizers that came up with it are smart folks, and so I stand with them. I mean again, I still I still think the fund the police. It it rolls off the tongue nicely, but at the end of the day, I mean, we saying it know that it evokes a perception like it makes people think that it's something that it's not. So my you know, just my general thinking is okay, then why don't we say what we mean? But I mean, you know, if the it seems like the strategy is to just to stick to that slogan and that and the messaging is more important than necessarily worrying about who can easily understand it. The political education has to happen either way. If we're like, well, we want to reallocate funding to housing. Like still it requires that study our budgets to understand to what degree we need to do that reallocation and like how many dollars are actually putting into that stuff, and then answering those questions about what public safety will look like if we reallocate funding. So I don't buy, I don't buy people saying to fund the police doesn't work because the political education that's happened. No matter what, I think, we're hitting on a fantastic point here, and and it's a larger one because we're talking about, you know, to a degree, we're talking about messaging, right and mass perception and this this goes into this concept of of narrative, right. I think for anyone who's been watching the protests ongoing right, anybody's watching this or participating, notices this huge discrepancy between what you're seeing on you know, your local channel two versus what you're seeing from your own experience or what you're seeing in your friends Instagram stories or protesters posting directly to social media. What do opponents of various grassroots movements who control the levers of mass media, what what tactics do they use too, I would say, dilute or deter or control, uh, the narrative of a movement and and how do people how do people combat that? I mean, it makes it all the more important for us to be their own reporters of our experiences. The importance of social media right now. It's disseminate uh, verified accounts of like what's going on, because they can easily focus on that ten second shot of this tussle happening in the Crown where a pro police in a defund the police protesters are throwing fisticuffs and miss out on the other four hours of the protests where they're marching peacefully and singing together. And so it's so important for us to tell our own stories because I think they are cherry picking their informants. They are trying to sensationalize what's happening by focusing on the most the triolic imagery that they can find. And so yeah, I would agree that mass perception is sort of being twisted by folks that get clicks when it looks violent, or get views when people are glued to their screen because what they see scares them, rather than getting a variety of accounts to give a better, clearer, more objective view of what's happening out here. What I think about that kind of it kind of you know, goes back into the the last question that we're talking about in terms of messaging and with the defund the police, because it's like, we can't ignore the fact that something like Fox News exists and that Fox News talks to millions and millions of people. So I'm not saying we have to gear any sort of message for Fox News, But what I'm saying is, if we know that Fox News is manipulated, if channels like Fox News in these big corporate news stations, if we know that they're manipulating our messages and stuff like that, to me, it just seems like counterproductive to give them AMMO, you know, because it's like, we know what to fund the police means, but there's a whole echo chamber out there that's being literally brainwashed to think it means something other than what it means. So we can either like be in the mindset of like, yo, that sixty million people, screw them. We don't give a funk about what they know or what they think, or what who's feeding the went information we're sticking by your thing because you should you should know what we know then. I mean, I'm just saying like, if that's if that's where we're at, then okay. But I just think that it would probably be you know, and even saying it out loud sounds stupid because it's like, oh, protesters and an activist should be thinking about a slogan. That sounds ridiculous. But you know, in the world that we live in, you know, messaging matters, and I just think that of a more streamlined message would be would be better for that. What do you all think about the way that this uprising is being portrayed in the media. Well, I mean, I think one of the main things to look at right now is what's happening in Seattle exactly perfect point. Yeah, just just the very almost polar opposite ways in which the movement there is being portrayed in the media. Um, and it really, like like you're saying, it does speak to I mean you'd have to you have to go back really far to really get into all this stuff. But really thinking about the media bubbles that have existed for a while, that have been shaped by these different companies who are serving specific audiences, and you know they're they're telling their audiences what they want to hear in order to capture their eyes and ears for advertising dollars. Right. I mean, that's really what it is, um. And when you you know, I'll just to stand up for a second. Like I've been having, I think a lot of us have been having a lot of conversations with our friends and families. Maybe I know, I know in my family, my wife's family, there's been some hard conversations trying to get people to see a little more evenly rounded of what it's happening here, so to be able to see points of view outside of their own, outside of our own, my own, um. And it's been a difficult process because we can each be fed our own version of the truth or the thing that we want to believe is the truth for sure. And that's why I like that person to person political education is so important for us to have that conversation with our cousins or co workers or classmates about what to fund the police means because everyone else has an agenda, they got ads lots to feel, uh. Whereas a person genuinely expressing their vision for a better world to someone that they trust and know. It's a lot more effective way of like building a movement to spelling myths and just building community as well as like having that honest kind of dialogue. And in general, we're not a political show. We do our best to kind of stay relatively a political and not you know, show too much of our personal opinions about a lot of stuff. We try to stick to the facts, but you'll talk about a lot of governmentships, We absolutely do, but our goal is not to be editorializing most of the time. UM. And with this stuff, it's kind of pushed things to a place where that's really difficult to do. UM. And I think that's why we're we're ready to have this conversation with with y'all and because it's such a polarizing time more than ever. But it's also like, I don't know, it's like we're we sometimes are dancing around like, oh, how do we say this, how do we couch this? How do we you know, say our opinions about this without offending anybody or offending the people were trying to support. And I just an example for me personally as my ex wife who I'm really close with, and I and our eleven year old daughter and a friend of hers and her son, Um we did like a little mini protests because they've been really careful about coronavirus and she has a young baby, young young toddler, and so she's like, I want to do the thing. And we both live in the same predominantly black neighborhood in Atlanta and um Candler mccafee area. And at first I was uncomfortable because I was like, Okay, we're it's five of us. We're standing on the corner on this you know, busy intersection in this predominantly black neighborhood that is being gentrified and we are part of that. And I was like, a, are we coming off as like preaching to the choir where people are like duh, black lives matter? Yeah, Like what are you? Who are you trying to tell? But that was another response we got at all, and I felt this sense of like, Okay, it matters that people see that they are supported and that they are seeing And it was something that like was very empowering is not the right word, but it just it gave me this feeling that I hadn't that have been struggling with where it's like how do you voice your support without coming off as performative or coming off in whatever way. And the fact is, if you really mean what you're saying, then you're not going to come off that way. And if you really are and maybe somebody calls you out for performativity and you accept that with grace and you like learn and you figure out how to be a better ally, but like you have to be willing to fail. So the fact that you went out there on that corner and just like I'm going to hold this on and see what happens, like you have to do that kind of stuff and to learn what is the most effective form of support that your community needs. I'd like to interject your real quick No, with all due respect, I disagree with your characterization of the show all things, all actions are political actions. Uh tell them. I feel that we have the facts on our side, or we work very hard to find the facts. And when we've been accused of being quote unquote political, it's often by people who are angry that the facts and the reality of the world do not conform to their opinion. And that's I think that's an important distinction there. Um and and I think you're making excellent points about direct action and protest. Everyone is involved. You can admit it or you you can accept it or you can deny it. But everyone is involved in every action is inherently a political action. And then I completely agree with you. And all I was trying to say was we do our best to grandstand or to make it about us. It's all about the facts, like you said, and people that get upset don't like which side the facts fall on, whether it makes them feel bad about their view or or what have you. Um, when I say we're trying to be a political show, that was a poor choice of words. I just mean, you know, we are. We do try to be fact based and let the chips fall where they may in terms of how people interpret that or the reality. It's not up to us. We just, like you said, do the research and try to you know, get to the heart of things. And many of those things are political issues. Yeah, and on that point, you know, we just had a recent episode about coincial pro and in it um talking a lot about the gears of government that turn unseen beyond the veneer of electoral politics. We elect people and put them in office that then task the FBI these paper pushers, these agents that are just taking orders from the higher ups to do things like like burn Black Cultural Meeting center US to the ground, or to wire tap or sabotage or drum up false charges against them. So those facts remain, you know, the facts, but they do come from a political place, and that someone in a place of power is is setting that machinery into motion for sure. And will continue our conversation after a word from our sponsor and we're back. Let's let's talk about the militarization of police forces within the United States, because this is something we've talked about before a little bit. It is incredible to see the show of force from police departments when there are protests, even if there is civil disobedience going on as part of that protest, it's not any action that you would need literally a military force to be there. So I mean two recent examples. I organized a march here and Athens of about two thousand people on May thirty one that was peaceful. In fact, there was two protests going on, and we were able to march the city and merge them and continue in our you know route, shutting down downtown together, and it was really moving the way that people came together UH to listen to black folks come up and speak about their experience of racism, to speak to the crowd about policy next steps. UM. But then at one point in the protest UM a number of men armed with UM A K s and stuff like that showed up in Hawaiian shirts UH and kind of put everybody on edge. So we decided to disband the rally at that point and send everyone on their way. Now, a couple of hundred people remained downtown through the evening peacefully occupying the main square, and the mayor set a curfew to try to send people home around nine Around midnight, the police decided to use tear gas and be your bean backgrounds to uh disperse the crowd, and ended up arresting nineteen people. In their subsequent police report, they identified these protesters as um booloo. Though these are all friends of mine that are organized at the community, who lived here for years and who were you know, peacefully occupying this square. But this intel about you know, far right groups are Antifa infiltrating these peaceful gatherings, to do harm to our community, to do property, damage to life. Fires was used as a pretext to bring in the National Guard. For the following weekend, we had thousands of troops and police people stationed on top buildings and riding down the streets and tanks while another people gathered peacefully in the street. Once again. And so, I mean we've seen that equipping are are are police department with weapons of of you know that they want to say that are used to keep their peace. But like things like tear gas like are outlawed in the Geneva Convention. Like it, it's almost like it gives them a reason to look for an excuse to use us on folks. They want to see us as the boogeyman. They want to see us as uh the boogaloo boys, when in fact we're just peacefully occupying a square. It's somewhat in the logic of the way they operate that, like civilians are just enemy combatants that need to be quelled by force, uh if possible. And so I've seen the way that this military militarizision has um played out, you know, in a small town like Athens, and I can't imagine in larger cities and municipalities how that must feel to be occupied by this military force and under these threats of of UM violence from the stain Ben. In our previous episode on agent provocateurs, we touched briefly on the idea of this far right movement, the Boogaloos, and you had said, oh, this was worth an episode in itself. Could you talk a little bit about what that is, what you what your research has shown you on what this group is? And is it a thing? Is it like this kind of specter like Antifa that's sort of used and thrown around to sort of give a face to this like emminent threat or is it like a real thing. That's an interesting question. I think that's when we would we should we should pose to everyone here because um, you know, link wise you brought up that phrase, the boogaloo boys, right, Uh, this this phrase is UM. It's found its way into media, It's found its way into narrative. You can find them portrayed as UH far alt rights agitators who are who are seeking to UM escalate a protest. You can see it's weird. It's almost like anonymous because UH membership is defined by describing oneself as anonymous or describing oneself as boogaloo. There's no like club or authorization process. You don't have to send you a membership. It's it's like um. As far as the political leanings, it's kind of all over the map. It can go from libertarians to actually like far left people to you know, straight up neo Nazi types can be in it um pretty much. The term boogaloo is actually is actually related to hip hop in away Um the movie Breaking Back in the Day, Breaking Part two, the Electric Boogaloo was the name of the sequel to Breaking, So their whole entire, like the thing is that there's gonna be a second civil war, so it's like Civil War two Electric Boogaloo. That's the Boogaloo boys. So, like, you know, depending whatever side that they're on, whether you know it's like left this boogal loose or right boogal loose, they're pretty much all preparing to go to war with the government and to incite that in some way. So a massive mass protest that's engulfing the entire country. It's kind of like the perfect situation for like groups of that nature, which is one of the things that makes it tricky because on one end, yeah, definitely, the authorities are going to try to discredit the protests however they can, but they damn sure just arrested one of the Boogaloo boys for like spraying up some cops today. That was today with like a with like a homemade machine gun pipe bombs. So but my thing that is, like I hear that name and I hear that association with that that film, which is you know, a part it is, like you like that kind of breakdancing culture is like a big part of like hip hop culture and black culture, and it seems to me to be like a far right white group appropriating that term, which makes me think it's inherently racist. They're looking for like a race war, but I'm hearing that it's more anti government that it's anti black or like anti it's it's I mean, there's definitely black bugaloos and there's there's that. So again, it all depends, like you know, you could be in a situation to where you have one group of Buggaloos and they see another group of Boogaloose and they're like, oh, those guys are sucking Nazis, you know what I mean, And they're having that sort of conflicts amongst each other. So it's like Antifa, it's like not really an organization, is more of a like idea and philosophy. So it's it's just it's harder to classify exactly what it is and what they want. Just from my from my understanding of it, if you were to get like ten buggaloos in a room, eight of them are pretty much just cause players, you know what I mean, and like two of them like have some like extremists like the other the other guys like think, oh man, yeah, like we're Hawaiian shirts and we have tactical vests on this is this is cool? Like you know, so yeah, that's that's the thing. That's what I think makes it so um easy for mainstream media narrative controllers because if you have a group that can just you know, self appoint a group that internally disagrees on a great many things, then you can make that phrase a thought terminating cliche like who okay, thankfully you know we've made this explicit so I can say it plainly. Who the funk would have thought in twenty that being against fascism is a bad thing? Like say it? Please say? I know? Motherfucker's who loosely called it like I'm in I'm in Antifa, blah blah. Like all the people in Antifa couldn't fill up a fucking civic center in most cities. So like the fact that it's being dubbed some great threat, I mean, you know it's You don't even have to say that it's a bullshit to just know that it's bullsh it, you know what I mean. Like, you can't name any deaths that have been caused by anybody who is in Antifa, but you can name a hell of a lot of people that neo Nazis and right wingers have killed. So there's black men and women getting hung from trees all across this country right now, and who's who's doing that and ain't Antifa. And one of those one of those murders was I think initially somehow rule this suicide. Yeah, I've had kind of information overload and haven't learned a lot about this other than I'm aware that this is happening, and I, you know, myself, have gotten some threasts of lynching recently on the internet and so like that definitely makes me feel a little afraid to know that this is happening actually in other places, Uh, so maybe I should look into what happened and uh get some home security system. We're just talking the other day about getting like a tear gas gun or something. At least I was, yeah, kevlars leaves to fend off NiFe attacks. Uh, borrowing a friend's dog, big old German shepherd to hang out in the house. I have a personal security team of folks to show up if that's anything. We can joke about all this stuff, and it's almost like you do it to keep from like going insane or just completely depressed. But it's like, this is real. These threats are real, like and it's more prevalent now and more obvious now than I think it's maybe ever been. And you know, I mean, I I don't want to be a down or anything, but like, I mean, how can you not. But like, for example, the comments section on your page on Apple Podcasts for the show, like it's as it's got like almost a thousand reviews, and it's got as many one star reviews, it has five star reviews and about and nothing in between. And all the people the people that right text and this is true of any podcast reviews for the most part, people that actually take the time to you know, rate and review there, and we want people to rate and view them if you like it and give positive feedback, and if you don't want to give negative feedback, make it constructive at the very least. But this stuff that we're seeing here is not constructive. It's literally saying like I'll buy you a ticket back to Africa. Or there was some stuff we actually got like taken off because it was outright threatening like it it it cited uh like you know, said like keep hiding joggers or something like that, and it was like referring to the shooting that took place in Brunswick. Um, the mon Areverrey and we we got it taken off. Yeah. So but all I'm saying is like I haven't read that. I haven't read our comments section yet. These people exist, don't don't bother. I just wouldn't. It's it's not worth the pain and the stress and just seeing out whatever. It just makes you kind of sad about people, and you know the state of people's minds and how can people think like this? Um, but these people are real and then these extreme views are real, and I you know, it's just something that you have to be aware of. And you have to kind of guard against like with maybe with tear gas cannons at your door or whatever. I am, I don't know. I mean that's the direction that we're heading, I guess. I mean, if the police are militarized, like, what's the as private citizens, what's the big old deal if we you know, I mean, my my number one issue in all of this is just like for me, it's it's hard to think about anything in any sort of context that doesn't involve like the cult of Trump. And I know you guys were trying to like keep it, you know, not like make it to like political, but I mean, it's just just like every aspect of the situation that we're in, you know, I just think people need to realize that there is a literal death cult that's numbered in millions of people that like live in the country amongst us, you know what I mean. And I just don't I just foresee in the next few months Trump doing something ridiculously insane and having way more people than there should be following what he does. And that's what's gotten. That's what keeps me up at night to pick up on that point. You know, Um, one thing that this the people in this country have taken for granted. Is you know, any any student of geopolitics knows this, Uh, the peaceful transfer of power is it's astonishing that it ever happens with human beings, just the way we're hardwired. But there there's a very real danger. I don't want to be alarmist or whatever or you know, conspiratorial quote, You're not being alarmist. And like all of this ship hangs on a very very like thin thread, you know. I mean, I grew up immersed in African politics of the nineteen eighties and nineties. The Civil War of Liberia was like the backdrop of my childhood, so like it's very hard to know about how that ship went down. And then look at what the political situation is in America right now. The only reason that you could think that, oh, that couldn't happen here is because you're racist and you think, oh, it's white people, so they wouldn't do that, you know what I mean. But no, it could get just as fucked up here here is as it could anywhere else, because like really, I think like Western democracies really hinge on like the the veneer of like civility. You know what I mean. So it's it's it's kind of important that the Western politicians feel the need to have to lie to their constituents, you know what, Like once, once you have politicians that don't give a funk about lying, like wholesale, whether you know they're lying or not. Once they don't care about that and they're openly lying, that's when the like the the body politics should be up in, you know, it should have like the hairs raised. Is like, Yo, something's not right, you know, something is like extremely wrong with this because because tomorrow, if if, if the election happened, this is this is what I think. And this is just me being pessimistic. Let's say election night goes through, and let's say Trump loses and he's like, fuck it, I'm not going anywhere. I'm just kind of in the state where it's like I see a lot of people reading about that on their cell phone and being like, oh, I gotta go to work, and that'd be in it is Matt Matt Angry tweets for about an hour, you know what I'm saying, and then motherfucker's got shipped to do. Sorry I didn't bring it down. We've wandered we've wandered far, far away from anything we had. You know, this is what this is what I would say. I can totally see why you And sometimes I think that that is a possibility, like for sure, but just from what's from rhetoric, from what's happened. Yeah, I have I Yeah, I have to. Honestly, I have to believe that the transfer of power, no matter what happens, is going to occur because of I don't believe that, like it's bunker time for Maddie over here, Like I'm going in the bunker and my family is not coming out for months. To what extent do you when you when you say the peaceful transfer of power, Like, what do you mean exactly? Because I don't think that there's gonna I don't think that there's like a situation to where like the generals are like, yes, we're on the side of Trump. I don't mean that. I mean something a lot more smaller scale, but say the same amount of menace, you know what I mean? Like, I honestly think that if Donald Trump was getting arrested right now and as putting on the handcuffs on him and he was looking in the camera was like burn it down, burn it all down. I think you'd have like bare minimum five million people that would be out in the street shooting, shut up and setting it on fire. That's what I think. Now I could be paranoid or wrong, but I don't really don't think. I am. Well, that's the I guess that's the that's the question, right, So what is the peaceful transfer power? At the most uh most basic level, I would say it's the idea that people vote through our cartoonishly uh imperfect system, which is I think designed to be cartoonishly inefficient. Uh people vote, one candidate wins, and then that candidate gets that position and there's not there's not a war, there's not Trump saying burn it all down with the handcuffs on. But but that's something that um, I think we've taken for granted in this country at times, and it's it's very real, um, a very vulnerable point for democracies as a structure or republic or what have you. And this I think the militarization of police is in step with this. And if you if we look back at the militarization, right, it really begins like when when we start seeing swats and military grade equipment. It really begins with something called the Omnibus Crime Control and Safe Streets Act way back in n and then in step with that evolution, we also see widespread defunding of educational systems. So keep people scared, make sure they're dumb, and don't give them an opportunity to think critically about why there is a fucking tank at the corner of the public park. It's scary. Well, it wasn't a large impetus. Also, wasn't it the Watts riots. Wasn't that one of the main reasons why SWAT teams came around. I think it's l A. P D. I can't remember the officers or the chief's name that actually started. We talked about our when our old video has been but specifically they link it to the Watts riots, uh, and them saying that they were unprepared for it and they needed basically a military police to handle that. And then a war on drugs, a war on terrorism, and then you know, at the end of the day, it's like, you know, you just have to you know, factor in like human nature, you know what I'm saying, like so many to to a lot of police officers, like it's just a job, like anyody else would have a job. It shouldn't be, but a lot of them like see it as just a job. So you've got like this thing that's a job. And then they're just giving them all of these toys to play with, and of course they're gonna abuse that ship and you're like, what else do they have to do? You know, because obviously that much military force isn't needed from police, so if they have it, they're gonna like use it on something. So it's like, I think the key step is to like take all that ship away. Have these motherfucker's be like British cops with like a billy club, just not even a billy cloud. What do you what do you call those uh those little those little nightstick things, well, cardboard ryant shields. I think the I think the proper British term for them is a truncheon. Truncheon truncheon. Love that And with that, we're gonna take a quick break to hear a word from our sponsors, but we'll be right back and we're back. Hey. And we talked about elections and just how perhaps poorly designed they are on purpose. We just had an election here in Georgia not long ago, and you know, I know all and what up. I know y'all are in Athens, but specifically here in Fullon County, we had some serious issues. I wonder if y'all had been following all of that and just what your thoughts were. Yeah, that's kind of that. That all again, this is all just a continuous cycle. But that feeds into what we're just talking about with the peaceful transfer of power. It's like there is an entire political party that doesn't care about democracy at all, you know. So it's just like there's just certain things that we're really lucky of. Like, for example, I was watching I forget what the hell was watching, but that somebody mentioned that it was really a really good point. But did you guys hear about how in North Carolina, after the Democrats won the governorship, the Republican state Senate started changing a bunch of laws to strip power away from the governor since they were since they lost power. Well, I mean, that same sort of thing can happen on a national scale. And that's what again, this is one of those things that people don't think about. If the House and the Senate we're both Republican and Joe Biden. One, you can rest assured that they would change a bunch of rules to make the president pretty much powerless until Republican become president again, and that they're they're doing ship like that, they're doing the voter suppression with making having them be long lines, throwing out voter ballots again. It's just it's stuff that it's like, it's it's weird. It seems like it's just regular political corruption as usual. But I just have a sense that it's like something a bit more long term and nefarious with that sort of thing happening, because that's those those lines that were going on in Georgia. That's not that's not anything that anybody's like reading too deep into, Like you can clearly see it, and it's it's clearly meant to suppress the vote. So yeah, link wid just do you have any specific thoughts on it just too as an elected official. UM, I mean, I find it very because concerning I think that we already have a hard time or I have seen like really low voter turnout in general in the district where I serve, and the fact that there's already all these impediments in terms of folks that gotta work, folks who don't have access to reliable transportation or child care, um, and the ways that prevents people from voting in the first place. When you add all these technological impediments of machines that aren't down, or absentee ballots that don't get sent, and these long lines, when you know, folks gotta go back to work in an hour while they're you know, trying to fix the machines that aren't working. Uh, it does give me a lot of pause, and uh I feel somewhat powerless to stop it at the local level, because, like, we can criticize the folks in control of the Secretary of State's office all day, but then we're gonna also need them for stuff. And so to like like retain positive relationships with these higher ups with whom we don't always agree is a very weird delicate as to try to maintain as an elected official. So figuring out how best to like address this, how best to educate the public about has secured their votes? Uh, When at the same time, you can't account for the things that can pop up on election day, like what we saw with the long lines in Fulton County in the election that has happened last Tuesday. My experience was even even worse than the long lines. I know, Ben and I both I think Matt was smart and did a mail in ballot or an absentee ballot and voted early. Lucky he said they got sent one. You know, Ben and I both waited in different precincts for quite a while, at least two hours a piece or so. And mine was in my old neighborhood where I just moved from, so I still obviously registered there. And I waited about three hours in line. And at the end of the line there was this lady who wasn't there. They were like a c LU like poll monitors there, and there were poll workers and stuff, but this lady was just a civilian, and I guess she had voted her, you know, and came back around to tell everybody and kind of warn everybody. Hey, it's not really clear about this second step in the voting process. You the first part of it is like the old school way, where you take the little scam card, they put all your info on it, they give it to you, put it in the machine, you use your little stylus and they give you because you know, COVID and they sanitize it all that you get your own special stylus. Um, you do it on the screen. But the new step is it prints you out this page. And a lot of people were leaving with that page thinking this is my receipt, and and nobody was stopping them. And this lady was warning everybody in line, walking along the line, warning everybody about this. And my one of my best friends who actually was been my roommate until very very recently, um, very very politically active guy like canvases like you know, he was there ahead of me just because we were both registered in the same spot because that's where we moved from. And he was about an hour ahead of me in line, and so I saw him leave with that paper in his hand, and I caught him and I said, hey, dude, I think you missed a step. And he's like, no, no, it's just like it used to be. This is just a new thing where you get this receipt. And he's a he's a smart guy. Um, and he he went back in sure enough came out without the paper. So I'm not saying it's necessarily malicious, but the people that were there were not trained to spot that, and so the guy behind me in line was reporting it as voter irregularity. A reporter reached out to me through UH a friend of mine UM, and then I told her about my friend's story and she asked to be connected with him. So, you know, it's that really concerns me, like how many people walked out of that voting place without their vote counted. So peek behind the scenes, UM to our to our missied episode. In our original conversation that we sadly did not record, UH, we knew coming into today's show that the five of us would have a wealth of topics. We had one of the best problems you can have on a podcast, which is we have so much stuff to explore that we we knew that we probably wouldn't get to all of it UH today. But with that being said, you know, we have to thank you, thank you both link, thank you Dope for coming on the show today and and being so generous with your time. We like to end or draw things to a conclusion by giving our fellow listeners UH action points, something actionable, some some like direct takeaway or set of things they can do in the in the real world. UM. With that mind, wondering, Uh, you know earlier link what you talked about the importance of being informed about the local budget, right, Like, you know, don't just vote every four years when someone is going to be president. Make your voice heard locally. Do you think that's a good place for maybe protestors are activists or would be protesters or activists to start? Yes, absolutely, finding out who your city council person is and sending their office an email to see where they stand on things. Uh, if you can join an organization that has been keeping tabs on your local elected officials. Uh, there's Athens for everyone. Here in Athens, there's various political groups and various cities that have already been doing this work and so to kid kind of caught up to speed, um, as well as getting more localized action steps from them about you know, projects they are already working on. Who the leaders are in the community to follow, what events are going on. What you can do to help strengthen your community and bring more people into the fight. UM. I recommend everyone trying to join an organization like that, uh if one exists, or start one if the one doesn't exist in your community. Thus far um, Yeah, and just educate yourself. Uh, be willing to be wrong, you know, go stand out there on the corner by yourself with your Black Lives Matter sign uh. And if someone throws a milkshake at you, like if like, you know, take that in stride. Learn from you know, what tactics are effective and what the community really needs in terms of solidarity and support. Um. But definitely getting to know the folks that represent you. You are their boss. You pay these people salaries. They must be accountable to you, So hold them accountable, figure out what that's going on in their office, is what they're thinking about with their budgets, and develop a relationship. I second that, Yeah, No, I mean, you know, knowledge is power, and that's that's kind of my thing is like just keep yourself informed about whatever it is that that's important to you. Just make sure that you're you're read up and up to speed about the things that they are to know about it. And as well, I would add to that, read up on history, you know, learn about the social movements that came before us, learn about the thinkers that have informed uh uh visionary social change movements. Looks like Angela Davis, Ruth Wilson, Gilmore, Cornell West to get a better understanding of like how we got to this point in terms of progress, as well as the ideas that are going to lead the way for what our future needs to look like. So stay on top of what's going on, but also learned from the past. Thank you so much for joining us. Tell everybody the best way to listen to Waiting on Reparations to find more information about it, and you know, to find your music as well. So we're on Instagram at I Heart Reparations, uh, Facebook, waiting on Reparations, Twitter, I Heart Reparation or something. Don't worry about that. We're not really on Twitter. I don't even try to find us on today. But my music can be found at Lingua Franca dot band camp dot com. That's l I in Q you a f R A and q A and uhm Lingua Franca on Instagram or Mariah for Athenes on Instagram as well. Uh you can find my music at dope knife dot com or if you just type in dope Knife anywhere you'll you'll find me my Instagram's Dope Underscore Knife and um yeah, yeah, I'm out there. Awesome, awesome. You can also find us if you want to if you have any questions about this show, you know obviously right to all of us. Uh, anything we talked about today, if something sparked you know, something within you, and you think there's another episode we need to cover because of everything we've talked about, please write to us. Let us know. You can find us on Facebook and Instagram, Twitter mostly conspiracy stuff conspiracy stuff show on Instagram. Uh, and if you don't want to do any of that, you can give us a call. Our number is one eight three three st d W I t K. You are able to leave electronic voice messages and three minute increments, So um, either you know, really condense your story down to three minutes or be ready to call back. But we will put this together, and I think there's going to be a future where we're going to have many more opportunities to discuss some of these amazing voicemails, um that all of us have access to. And if you don't want to do any of that, you can just send us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at I heeart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.