From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Nell. They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer Ball Mission Control decades. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Happy three everybody, Congratulations to all of us. Go team. There is currently not a third World war, right the world just a sixth mass extinction. Yes, there are with a silver lining man, you know there it is uh so, it's it's crazy right. Most of the people listening today do not have personal experience with World War two. If you're human, it is most likely going to be a memory of a parent, probably a grandparent, maybe a great grandparents. People aren't thinking about a full scale World war the way they would think about Vietnam or a rock et cetera. And the problem is, history is again much closer than it looks in the rear view mirror. And that's why billions of people are convinced a third World War is on the way, not so much a question of if as a question of when. There's no shortage of predictions about how this war might occur. I mean, Matt Noll, you know, it wasn't too long ago that we we said there's a high likelihood World War three could occur over water, right over like as a I'm sorry, I'm picturing like over water like an air war, you know, but now this is water the resource. We're gonna fight for that stuff to the death. Yeah, thankfully. Weirdly, in recent news, California and the Western United States has been drenched in a terrible way, but at least some of the reservoirs got filled. Here he goes with the silver, silverlighted he's our guy. Uh yeah, I mean, it is an interesting thing once you take into consideration other impending issues like climate change, where you could be like, oh, yeah, that's cool, we're getting more rain in these arid regions, but it also portends something potentially ominous, the fact that that's that didn't used to have been like, and it causes landslides, mud slides, flooding, and terrible things. Yeah, just general holes in the ground will occur out of nowhere right, and uh, privatized insurance is a thing. So privatized insurance may say you didn't get the extra whole policy for your crazy random you know, sinkholes, so good luck and good hustle. Hey, can we just say too. I mean, like the kinds of insurance you're required to have if you live in like a floodplaine or whatever, they're pretty limited. I mean, you know you have to have them, but it's not like it's gonna make you a whole most of the time. If my experience with insurance is any indication, unless you make no fun left behind, I mean I'm just saying, I just, you know, no shade out there directly, I guess if you're in the insurance game. But I think we all know that there there are some real shortcomings with these things to the folks that maybe can't afford just the absolute top tier levels of coverage. No, what, what does your hat say? It's pretty good? I was liking at this earlier. It says loking awesome. Oh, okay, okay in a positive way. Yeah, I mean it's like a skateboard company or something. I did buy it at a skateboard shop. I do not skateboard. But my kid is starting to try, so I'm allowed to wear this at damn it. So it's not any way meant to insult the idea of awesome. It's just adding to it. It's like that line in that macklemore song, you know about popping tabs at the thrift story says this is being also, you know, that's just my outlook on life. That guy's government name also is Ben Benjamin McLemore Xavier Esquire, the third roy that's my theory. Well, you know what, He's definitely well traveled, as are many celebrities. The average per soon has a difficult time traveling that widely, and so it can be very scary to think about the world and have some weird doomsday prophecy about things going inevitably in a chaotic direction. You know, wars over water, climate refugees, two very true things. A domino of nuclear detonations because once once someone shoots a gun, it's no longer a standoff, it's a hot war. Oh yeah, well, it makes me think of the I don't know if you call it a border dispute, but the dispute with the South China. See that's been going on where there where tensions are rising higher and higher as people, as other governments and their militaries encroach a little bit further, just to see where those lines are um in what China believes is there property I guess also interesting use of language in justifying it. They we called it just now the South China Sea. Other countries in that part of the ocean do not call it the South China Sea. So what we're looking at here is what is legally called between just two countries, a differing perspective or differing territory. Today's episode is about one uh one possible cause for a third World War. It's one that might be unfamiliar to many of our fellow conspiracy realist. It's a beef with China and India. Here are the facts. They're big, they're big, the big deals. Yes, they're big deals as countries because of their size, you know, their actual land mass and the number of human beings that live within the borders of those countries. And they're also a big deal because they got this little technology that you know, we humans developed in the forties. It's called nukes. Yes, also putting a positive spin on things. These are these are seats of ancient cultures invented so many things. China and India historically not perfect few countries are, right, but they did big stuff. And you're right, Matt, they're they're literally the biggest countries in terms of population. Right, we're keeping the US bracketed. The US and the EU are distant thirds and fourths respectively. How many people are we talking in China and India? Well, uh, they're very populous places. Let's just say, and we can we can put some numbers to that, um, with China being the number one most populous country on the planet with one point four billion people, India is nipping at its heels and I'm not. I'm at a close second with over one point three eight billion residents in that country. Uh. And that leads to a super fun statistic that you found, ben Um. If you picked a single person at random out of every single individual on the planet, that random person is most likely to be either from India or China. That's a fun game. Yeah, we should try that. No, that's hard, too hard, We'll just keep it in the realm of conceptual examples. Yeah, and if you took a big picture of planet Earth and looked at the two land masses that comprise China and India. And you thought about the number of humans that are on there, and then you thought about that statistic, right, you may think, oh, man, oh everybody here, if they must have a lot in common, they must be like pretty good friends. They're really close. They've been around together for gosh, thousands and thousands of years. Has been pointed to in their ancient civilizations, they must be pals. Not so much, well, kind of there's a lot of trade, right, there is trade, but like you know, culturally, a lot of differences in terms of maybe priorities, um, you know, moral morals, you know, things like that that they're just kind of based in in those ancient cultures that you're talking about that maybe get passed down generationally. Um. And there really are some pretty significant divides between the two countries. Yeah, that can feel weird. Two people in the west, these uh, these cultures, these modern nations are so old that their history descends into legend and myth at some time. What we're saying is two very big deals who have a lot in common and happen, due to geography to be a little bit complicated. You know, they have historically worried about their borders, primarily about their borders with other countries, not even talking about them together. India is very worried about Pakistan. It's stressing some other stuff in the Himalayas. We know about China and the West. That's the reason, that's the reason all of us on this show are about fifty fifty to get into mainland China through legal means. So this all leads us to something a lot of Westerners don't think about often. How did China and India get along? Would they ever enter open combat in the modern age in a way that would trigger a Third World War? So it's such a weird question, yeah, and again not one that people in the West ponder very often. I certainly don't. I mean, I don't think we we've really not talked about it outside of recording the podcast before and until we started really doing research. I mean, I'm sure some of us, I mean, I'm sure we're aware of it to some extent, the tensions and some of the stuff that's been popping up in the news. But when it comes to an existential dread feeling about the next thing that sparks World War three, it hasn't been on my radar. Yeah, what about you know, I mean, I just like you said, Um, the idea of a world war sort of seems like a relic at this point. It just feels like there's more kind of small conflicts surrounding specific issues, or maybe we come into the aid of a country, you know, if it sort of serves our interests. But like, I don't know, the closest thing maybe I could see would be what's happening in Ukraine, and just like you know, the the the maneuvering of someone like a dictator uh type figure like Putin who maybe you know, while it's not certainly not on par with what was going on with Hitler, Um, it's the kinds of actions when escalated farther enough, the world sort of demands, uh, you know, action uh. And I don't think we're there yet, you know, with that. But that's the closest thing that I could think of. I just I guess it just feels like the world is interconnected in such a way now that maybe it wasn't during the eras of the first two World wars, So it seems less likely for it to be an all out, all encompassing everyone's on board on one side or the other, you know, conflict. Yeah, that makes sense. The idea that we are at the end of history, the idea that wars as understood in preview is millennia no longer apply. Like the idea of a world war when everyone is financially connected becomes a very different conversation. So, as we're saying now, a lot of people aren't aware of this tension between China and India, nor how specific it is. You will see authors writing about it in near future sci fi like Neil Stephenson's Termination Shock. But this is a real thing. It's a border. Most people in the world will never visit. It is constantly shifting. It's about two thousand miles long. It's in the middle of nowhere. It's not a place you would go for fun. It's in the Himilaya Mountains and not the fun part. And neither the government of India nor the government of China will actually call it a border. And they've been beefing about this for decades. Instead, for many decades they have been calling this the quote line of actual control. As we record today's podcast, it is the largest, most dangerous border dispute on the planet. Then In researching this, it feels to me like a little bit like the d m Z that we talked about between the DPRK and South Korea. And but it's but it's a morphous in a very different way. It's uh, it feels like it can change, really really change, like depending on which side you're on and what you decide to believe in the moment, if you're a commander, let's say, or somebody who's in charge of a military either I can't wait to get into this, but why why don't we take a quick break. We'll come right back in and learn about the line of actual control. Here's where it gets crazy. So the story really starts back in the late fifties when India and China had a proper beef properly beefed up UM and modern history, these countries have fought only one war against each other. Mind you, the Sino Indian War UM, which took place for just a single month, seems like not that big a deal. Right from November to October of nineteen sixty two, India lost that conflict or confrontation or whatever event they want to call it, UH, and China unilaterally declared a ceasefire. But let's just not forget that a ceasefire really is just kind of like pressing pause on a conflict, and it can be rescinded and any thought. Sometimes cease fires can go on for a very long period of time if you know, an actual um official declaration of you know, an end to the war can take place, right, So like a ceasefire band could last year's sure. Yeah, and I like that you brought up the Korean peninsula because that war also has not ended. There's an armistice, right, So this ceasefire in nineteen sixty two means that the countries never agreed on what constituted a border. They just started using the phrase line of actual control, which is and this is on purpose, and none of the none of us are proud of this. This is an example of the overuse of the phrase liminal space in contact in context. I know, Matt, I see you. We love liminal space as we talk about them all the time. It's like a place between the place like the airport is a good example of where I mean it actually can be a real example in terms of like where duty free rates apply. You're not actually in the US, but you're not actually in the country yet, so you're in this kind of middle ground that allows you to buy whiskey and bulk without paying tax um. But if you're you see that duty free shop and you're not you know, on an international flight, you're not in that space, but you're still in the liminal space that allows you to have a drink at eight in the morning. So two of the most populous countries on the planet say, hey, let's just agree that we do not agree, and let's look at the facts on the ground. You know, who controls what, and they mapped it out. You can look at any number of these attempts to map out the line of actual control. But be aware of folks, the maps are wildly different. Yeah, but either way, and no matter what your map looks like, let's say you're either China or India, you say, you know, even though we're not really sure where these lines are, let's definitely put a bunch of troops, like as close as we can get to whatever that thing is on both sides, which is always you know, a way to really reduce tension. If you imagine the countries as stressed out individuals, how would you map how would we uh how would we illustrate or demarcate the line of actual control? Well, guys, I do not know this region very well. I am a guy in Atlanta talking to you about it. This information comes from the Hindustan Times. And where do they quoting been Oh, they are quoting members of Indian military. Well, there you go. So this is maybe one perspective on as well as as well as Indian government outside of the military. Got it. Well, this is what we have. The line of actual control runs between China's Tibet Autonomous Region and the Indian states of Arunachal Pradesh in the northeast, Himachal Pradesh and Utra Khand and Ladock in the north. And I pronounced those things incorrectly. I apologize. Those are names that you likely aren't aware of. But you can look some of those things up if you wish. Yes, perfect, If you pull up a world map and you zoom in to southwestern China, call it that right, and you see the the Himalayan Mountains, then along that line, essentially wherever there is not a Nepal or Bhutan, then there is Chinese Indian border dispute, burn Indian Chinese border dispute, and there are two major areas on the on either side right right, the sides that are not Nepal, and there in the middle because they're higher up in the mountains. So, like you said, Matt, there are troops on both sides of this not a border trademark, and they get in fights all the time, and both countries are terrified of giving any ground, which is weird because they feel like nothing occurs in a vacuum. So if either side of the L A C or Line of actual Control gives an inch, they will lose a mile. And maybe we can talk about some of their concerns. Yes, indeed, UM concerns on both sides. To the west, the L A C Line of actual Control runs along the already quite tense Kashmir border UM India. It's also very worried that Pakistan UM might use any territorial shift to kind of bolster their own claim to Kashmir UM. And this is a very reasonable concern UM. So they're not going to give at all if they can do anything in their power to to keep from doing so. UM. The western l A C also runs along the Chinese controlled Axi at Chin region also known as Eastern Ladoc. You mentioned earlier, matt Uh. This is basically, well, actually Western China Shinjiang uh Weaker territory, which is, as many listeners know, We've talked about it plenty of times, is an ethnic group that has been on the receiving end of some pretty awful discrimin nation and horrible treatment by the government of China um as the government of China continues to crack down on that population um through various programs of assimilation. They also don't want to give any territory to India because it could further destabilize an already kind of if he you know, region of control. These are kind of geopolitically speaking, Razor thin Margins were talking about here, because right in that same area I have at least the maps I'm looking at. It's not circular necessarily, but it looks like a small circle where you've got China on one side, you've got India kind of coming up to a point, and then Pakistan right here. And like you were saying, Ben, like it does make total sense that India would be super weird and out about any kind of development within the border there, within that circle or the other line of control between India and Pakistan. Yeah, it's weird, right. Imagine, you know, if making it a micro cosmic example, let's imagine you live in a subdivision and you hate your neighbors, but but you're you have the same backyard fences, and you will moved in when there was some sort of chain link fence already there. And so now you're starting to think about whose backyard is, who's right, or whoms is whoms if we're being fancy. So this is this is a dangerous thing because one tremendous point stands out. China and India are nuclear powers. If you look at the other side of what's called the line of actual control, you will see that east of Bhutan, there's a whole other thing geopolitically. And the thing we need to know for now is this neither of these sides, neither India nor China, ever agreed on an actual border. Both of them are powerful, as you said, Matt, both of them can launch nuclear weapons, and they both have, as you said, Noel, incredibly understandable fears about what would happen if they give an inch, you know, And maybe the best way to put it is that what we're looking at is two immovable objects that find themselves occupying the same space. It is not a sustainable calculation. It's not even possible. Physics says no. Physics says no. Okay, So why is there not a war? Well, as we're recording this, there isn't one yet. Hopefully when we get back there still won't be one because we're gonna take a quick and we're back. Why indeed isn't there that war that we've been teasing at this whole time, or maybe at least asking the question of what does it take for this to happen in this day and age? Weirdly enough, India and China are, as you mentioned, well, both of you, Matt and been mentioned, economically reliant on one another um to a kind of absurd degree. Um. They are very much part of a delicate balance in terms of how much they need each other for imports and exports and all of that. And a lot of that has to do with that proximity that we talked about. India is China's second largest trading partner. Um from this trade relationship was essentially the equivalent of eleven point five eight three billion dollars um. That would be an absolute catastrophe, Uh, if it was messed with, you know, and this is something that folks are taking into serious consideration when making these kinds of plays, are deciding whether or not to do so with these territorial disputes. And just to be clear, that is China trading goods to India. Yeah, and US dollars. It's a lot of money. And look, there's no secret. Uh, the government of China has tremendous military capabilities. So if everything else were taken out of the equation, it would be a pretty one sided war. But you know, nobody wants to have these huge conflicts. As a result, after a bunch of low levels skirmishes and back and forth, things got a little bit less heated. Back in September seven of that year, both countries came together and said, well, we still don't agree, but we're gonna do it politely. That's what I know. I just like that. Well, you know, yeah, let's just kind of keep this thing as it is. Um. It's this thing known as the Border Peace and Tranquility Agreement Tanquility Inclusion. It's it does it seems lovely? Yeah? Yeah, it's uh, it did this little thing where how did you put it in Oh, they just said they're gonna keep the status quo. They're going to continually disagree politely until they find a permanent solution, and they're gonna work together to build confidence. See that's confidence building in itself. Hey, well they did. They did some cool stuff, right. They said, look, we're going to control the amount of force and the type of force we use on this part of the world that we disagree about. Right, and they specifically said neither side shall use or threatened to use force against the other by any means. They also said no activities of either side shall overstep the line of actual control. So you can like talk big, you can wave flags, you can do oh to your earlier two Knowle's earlier point. You know you uh, you noted about you noted the enmity between these forces. You guys remember the Pakistani Indian border ceremony, right, Matt, do you know what the marching with the legs up really high and yeah, it's like foreheads they got a horn. I mean, is this is essentially that line in the sand everyone's always talking about, you know, or like the one in the Looney Tunes cartoons where you know, bugs Bunny consistently crosses it here and then keeps redrawing in until inevitably somebody falls off a cliff. Except in most cases there is no line. You're in the line of the mind is uh, it is definitely a you should you yeah? Well yeah, And that's why they put things in there that basically stated, you know, if you let's say you're in a if you're a bunch of troops, you're going through the mountains in this region, and you realize all of a sudden, oh crap, I'm on the wrong side of this thing. Uh. They put language in there to say you just if you find yourself in that position, you just back off, go in the correct direction for whichever country you are representing. And we're gonna say it's okay, because remember, when you're here, you are a peacekeeping force, you're not a military, right. Yeah. Oh, the the weather mislead us. We're south of the mountain. We gotta get north of that real quick. Let's let's remember we all agree, okay, So spoiler neither side consider this ideal situation. They had a lot of hand to hand combat, a lot of on the ground disagreements about who was on which side of which line. So the governments of India and China go back to the drawing board in n same year as the Olympics in Atlanta, Georgia, and they totally did not care about that because they were trying to make sure there was not a nuclear war. And this deal gets pretty explicit. This is the one that says, quote, neither side shall open fire or hunt with guns or explosives within two kilometers from the line of actual control. Realizing as we know now that neither side agrees on what the line of actual control is. That's why they said two kilometers. They said two clicks because they were at least anywhere. Oh, there's probably one right now who's like kilometer by elevation or a kilometer by like flat distance European swallow or African swallows. Just so, but see what that that means. That's four kilometers in total, right two kilometers from either side of whatever the line is. That's a big old swath of land right there, if you measure it all the way across. Seems a little wasteful, doesn't it. But also, like, I mean, isn't this the kind of situation like it would really take somebody flexing on the other side and to create a conflict or to create an event or an incident, let's just call it, that might lead to a conflict, like you know, shooting somebody who crossed their idea of the line, or it's just some hapless hunter out there who is doing their regular hunting with explosives thing. Yeah, it's like fishing with dynamite. You know, everybody knows that's the best way. Those snow leopards are everywhere, you know, Yeah, you gotta get them. You gotta hunt the snow leopards with grenades apparently, but this is this is true since there have been no firearms quote unquote allowed, and that agreement has been broken many times. What it's led to largely is a series of grudge matches, hand to hand combat. You like UFC, you like m m A, you like mosh pits. There's a Himalayan mosh pit right now. People are hitting each other with sticks, people are throwing stones, they're broken bones. There are no a k s or collision to cause real time on the ground Krav Magaw training there it is. Yeah, and uh, there was an incident in in Gadwin Valley that led to fatalities. This was one of the most significant border escalations in quote unquote peacetime in modern history. Right, and both sides, by the way, blame each other for the event. Uh, and no one wants to be responsible for starting an actual war, like like you guys point out, like there, these countries are economically reliance upon one another. And that's why you can see multiple videos your browser of choice where it looks like people motion in uniform. It looks like two large crowds just pushing each other. It's weird. The most recent videos that went mainstream came out three weeks before we recorded this episode on January nine. How would how would you guys describe that one um seeing barbed wire on one side that appears to represent some kind of border, but then troops from either side with it looks like lumber honestly in some cases, in other cases huge makeshift clubs, and they are, as you said, literally hitting each other and pushing each other even though there is a like a razor wire or barbed wire fence in between the two groups. Doesn't look very pleasant. Is what you call a skirmish, right, Like a little border skirmish where you know, there's like again an incident, Um, But Hopefully it doesn't result in a bunch of fatalities, because if it did, that would escalate. It is strange because it does appear that there is a concentrated, large group of one of the sides. It appears to be perhaps the Chinese troops that are kind of corralled maybe and they're just not really moving, but they are being attacked. It's very I mean, that's what it looks like from my view. And also I like that you're bringing up views who is holding the camera somebody on the Indian side, it appears, so there's a propaganda aspect of this war as well. There are loads of domestic reports in both countries that entirely seek to justify activities to support their perspectives. India claims that China has expansionist aims. They say China conspires with Pakistan. They also say that China is attempting to swallow up more territory each year, particularly as glaciers shift. Himalaya Mountains are home to uh a treasure trove of fresh water, and that water is you know, not going to be in glacier form for long. Well, yeah, and as it recedes that muddies the water, Oh, I didn't even mean to do it, um, but it does. It changes where the perceived border perhaps is, and is the border actually along the glacier as though you would uh line a border along a river. Let's say it's very common for humans to do that. What if the border is supposed to be along that glacier line, if the glacier recedes, then does that line stay in the same spot on the land or does it go and move with the And they, I believe the agreements call that a matter of differing perception, which is again a very polite sounding way to fundamentally disagree with someone. And let's be honest, if these were just regular street scuffles between gangs, our kids and a playground, you might see it become a meme or a footnote. Right. The problem is, even though these are not conflicts with firearms, often we're talking about proxies for two nuclear capable countries, and let us not forget people are dying and that's what this makes us think about. You could say, hey, that's a regional conflict that's between them. But if it's two countries two countries, do not world war make you know what I mean? Like you would need more countries. What of the world's countries to make a world war? I don't know how they calculate that. I've always wondered that. I mean, yeah, what what doth the world war make? Is it just three countries in very different parts of the world coalitions, right, Like it's about sort of yeah, you know, it's like you band together and then you have a conflict and then you know, I guess, yeah, what at what point did world War one become World War one? Because that was also they had to kind of coin that term, right even back then. I feel like I remember at least three different mixtapes in the early two thousands where someone declared a world war and that didn't catch on. They never got to the UN. They were just rapping. I think maybe that's part of the question behind all this too, is like you really brought up a good point. These are sort of labels that we put on things and sort of run with, and it really is maybe maybe there is, diplomatically speaking, some sort of metric for what what the you know, the criteria for world war is I don't remember it from history class though. It's when you invade poland that's when it becomes a world. When the Archduke Franz Ferdinand gets shot, We've got to stop invading Poland, you know what I mean, just as non Polish people. There are criteria, let's see it, says uh. In order to qualify as the World war, at least one of three criteria must be met at a state placed between multiple nations across the globe. Battles are fought in many different locations. These are still very big, and the war must be fought against great powers with significantly advanced technology. This is bullshnap whatever this says. Sorry, I don't buy this. This is from homework dot study dot com. Somebody got G and college. All right, So that's the problem, you know, I do. I do note that it's value. It's valid to talk about the real estate. Though the war is like real estate. It's geography. It's location, location, location. Geography determines the outcome of geopolitics as much, if not more, than human tactics and policies. So, if China and India did enter a conflict, if they were deploying munitions or sending jets over that airspace which was quote unquote restricted airspace, the jets flew earlier I'm pretty sure if they, if they escalated this war, it would not just be between those two countries. No. No, That's why we pointed out at the beginning of this episode how important trading part Nurse China and India are to each other. I would say probably India a little more dependent on China just because they received so many goods. Same thing with the US and how many goods we received from China. And it does make me wonder so if this did, if that beef got bigger, Um, the US might have to support China, which is so weird that the first time I've had that it would that be true? Do you think that would be true? And I am not I am not privy to the act the geo political conversations that I hear you. I just think it feels to me like it would almost be Yeah, you'd have to be a play that would have to be made. Um, I don't know, that's creepy. You'd have to think about You'd have to think about Korea, the Korean Peninsula, Japan, Australia. Uh, there are so many variables, right, what's going on with Pakistan, you know, which is a friend to China, Right, So these other players get sucked in. There's a domino effect. If China and India declare war, then Pakistan must take a stance, right, Japan must take a stance. Russia would be a different case. At this point, what we can say is that there are literally billions of people in China, literally billions of people in India, well one billion each, which means billions of people overall who are innocent. They have nothing to do with it. They're not involved in this stuff in the middle of nowhere in the him Alayas. But we also have to mention I love the point earlier about how world wars start. You can dismiss these kinds of things, but no, you brought up Franz Ferdinand commonly referred to as you know, the spark that started World War two. Yeah, I mean, and it really is kind of like how the history books right in or what we agree on. Because I was, you know again, I'm looking through this after that idiotic take that I rattled off, I saw an interesting perspective that some historians believe that the Thirty Years War has more claimed to be called World War One than World War One does. Um, just because of the number of you know parties involved, Um it really is. It's a matter of a war, you know, fought between major nations, and it doesn't take much to spark off a great conflict. And with this, I don't know. I I think we I think we have to ask ourselves. Is the line of actual control a thing that will turn into a border within a few years. I hope it doesn't lead to a war. I don't know, what do you think? I don't think it will just because of where where it is. Imagine fighting a full scale war in that territory, in those mountainous areas, at that elevation, in with those temperatures. It just feels like a really bad place to have a hot conflict. Who would have the upper hand? Do you think China? They already won once exactly pretty handily. Yeah, I don't know. Well they would win to India called Uncle Sam because there isn't that is a thing right now India and the United States. I don't know too much about it, but there's the relationship there is getting closer and closer. Yes, yeah, uh. And it's part of the U S strategy to contain China. China what they see as Chinese exp antonism, which is, you know, insulting if you're if you're a Chinese nationalist, right, don't don't try to box me in and so on. Uh, I don't know. I keep thinking about it. I am tempted to agree. I I doubt this is the likely cause of World War three, But consider this. If you wanted to start World War three, this would be a great place to start. You know, this would be a great place to false flags some stuff all you need, all It's relatively simple, right, Yes, I'll be right back. I'm gonna go do a little false flag action. You're like, I'm sorry, I feel like I'm starting a war. I don't know, it's bord, let's do it. I'm trying to think of why, Like what would be the motivations. I don't know. I'm not smart enough to understand there. Yeah, I can second and see a real reason either. It seems it would it would be uh, it would cause a chain reaction that would you know, really ripple outward and affect our relationship with those countries and then our ability to do trade and all of that. So, I don't know. I don't think it's in anybody's best interest. Yeah, unless it's an overall, you know, population reduction plan by someone in a darkened study who has just come up with a way to kill you know, hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions of people in couple uh swift moves. I don't know. It's feeling more and more like some people might be thinking that kind of stuff and it's freaking me out a little bit. Guys, but that's okay, same right. So let us know if you are uh, if you are acquainted with this border, let us know your thoughts. Do you believe that there is uh some sort of world war? What defines a world war? What do you what can you tell us and your fellow conspiracy realist about the relationship between China and India. We'd love to hear your thoughts. We try to be easy to find online. We do, and you can do that by reaching out to us on Twitter and on Facebook or we have a Facebook group called Here's where it Gets Crazy. You can join be a part of the conversation there, and those exist out of the handle Conspiracy Stuff Conspiracy Stuff Show. So we go by on Instagram. Yes, don't forget, Just in case you did, we do have a book and an audiobook it's titled stuff they don't want you to know. 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From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Nell. They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer Ball Mission Control decades. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Happy three everybody, Congratulations to all of us. Go team. There is currently not a third World war, right the world just a sixth mass extinction. Yes, there are with a silver lining man, you know there it is uh so, it's it's crazy right. Most of the people listening today do not have personal experience with World War two. If you're human, it is most likely going to be a memory of a parent, probably a grandparent, maybe a great grandparents. People aren't thinking about a full scale World war the way they would think about Vietnam or a rock et cetera. And the problem is, history is again much closer than it looks in the rear view mirror. And that's why billions of people are convinced a third World War is on the way, not so much a question of if as a question of when. There's no shortage of predictions about how this war might occur. I mean, Matt Noll, you know, it wasn't too long ago that we we said there's a high likelihood World War three could occur over water, right over like as a I'm sorry, I'm picturing like over water like an air war, you know, but now this is water the resource. We're gonna fight for that stuff to the death. Yeah, thankfully. Weirdly, in recent news, California and the Western United States has been drenched in a terrible way, but at least some of the reservoirs got filled. Here he goes with the silver, silverlighted he's our guy. Uh yeah, I mean, it is an interesting thing once you take into consideration other impending issues like climate change, where you could be like, oh, yeah, that's cool, we're getting more rain in these arid regions, but it also portends something potentially ominous, the fact that that's that didn't used to have been like, and it causes landslides, mud slides, flooding, and terrible things. Yeah, just general holes in the ground will occur out of nowhere right, and uh, privatized insurance is a thing. So privatized insurance may say you didn't get the extra whole policy for your crazy random you know, sinkholes, so good luck and good hustle. Hey, can we just say too. I mean, like the kinds of insurance you're required to have if you live in like a floodplaine or whatever, they're pretty limited. I mean, you know you have to have them, but it's not like it's gonna make you a whole most of the time. If my experience with insurance is any indication, unless you make no fun left behind, I mean I'm just saying, I just, you know, no shade out there directly, I guess if you're in the insurance game. But I think we all know that there there are some real shortcomings with these things to the folks that maybe can't afford just the absolute top tier levels of coverage. No, what, what does your hat say? It's pretty good? I was liking at this earlier. It says loking awesome. Oh, okay, okay in a positive way. Yeah, I mean it's like a skateboard company or something. I did buy it at a skateboard shop. I do not skateboard. But my kid is starting to try, so I'm allowed to wear this at damn it. So it's not any way meant to insult the idea of awesome. It's just adding to it. It's like that line in that macklemore song, you know about popping tabs at the thrift story says this is being also, you know, that's just my outlook on life. That guy's government name also is Ben Benjamin McLemore Xavier Esquire, the third roy that's my theory. Well, you know what, He's definitely well traveled, as are many celebrities. The average per soon has a difficult time traveling that widely, and so it can be very scary to think about the world and have some weird doomsday prophecy about things going inevitably in a chaotic direction. You know, wars over water, climate refugees, two very true things. A domino of nuclear detonations because once once someone shoots a gun, it's no longer a standoff, it's a hot war. Oh yeah, well, it makes me think of the I don't know if you call it a border dispute, but the dispute with the South China. See that's been going on where there where tensions are rising higher and higher as people, as other governments and their militaries encroach a little bit further, just to see where those lines are um in what China believes is there property I guess also interesting use of language in justifying it. They we called it just now the South China Sea. Other countries in that part of the ocean do not call it the South China Sea. So what we're looking at here is what is legally called between just two countries, a differing perspective or differing territory. Today's episode is about one uh one possible cause for a third World War. It's one that might be unfamiliar to many of our fellow conspiracy realist. It's a beef with China and India. Here are the facts. They're big, they're big, the big deals. Yes, they're big deals as countries because of their size, you know, their actual land mass and the number of human beings that live within the borders of those countries. And they're also a big deal because they got this little technology that you know, we humans developed in the forties. It's called nukes. Yes, also putting a positive spin on things. These are these are seats of ancient cultures invented so many things. China and India historically not perfect few countries are, right, but they did big stuff. And you're right, Matt, they're they're literally the biggest countries in terms of population. Right, we're keeping the US bracketed. The US and the EU are distant thirds and fourths respectively. How many people are we talking in China and India? Well, uh, they're very populous places. Let's just say, and we can we can put some numbers to that, um, with China being the number one most populous country on the planet with one point four billion people, India is nipping at its heels and I'm not. I'm at a close second with over one point three eight billion residents in that country. Uh. And that leads to a super fun statistic that you found, ben Um. If you picked a single person at random out of every single individual on the planet, that random person is most likely to be either from India or China. That's a fun game. Yeah, we should try that. No, that's hard, too hard, We'll just keep it in the realm of conceptual examples. Yeah, and if you took a big picture of planet Earth and looked at the two land masses that comprise China and India. And you thought about the number of humans that are on there, and then you thought about that statistic, right, you may think, oh, man, oh everybody here, if they must have a lot in common, they must be like pretty good friends. They're really close. They've been around together for gosh, thousands and thousands of years. Has been pointed to in their ancient civilizations, they must be pals. Not so much, well, kind of there's a lot of trade, right, there is trade, but like you know, culturally, a lot of differences in terms of maybe priorities, um, you know, moral morals, you know, things like that that they're just kind of based in in those ancient cultures that you're talking about that maybe get passed down generationally. Um. And there really are some pretty significant divides between the two countries. Yeah, that can feel weird. Two people in the west, these uh, these cultures, these modern nations are so old that their history descends into legend and myth at some time. What we're saying is two very big deals who have a lot in common and happen, due to geography to be a little bit complicated. You know, they have historically worried about their borders, primarily about their borders with other countries, not even talking about them together. India is very worried about Pakistan. It's stressing some other stuff in the Himalayas. We know about China and the West. That's the reason, that's the reason all of us on this show are about fifty fifty to get into mainland China through legal means. So this all leads us to something a lot of Westerners don't think about often. How did China and India get along? Would they ever enter open combat in the modern age in a way that would trigger a Third World War? So it's such a weird question, yeah, and again not one that people in the West ponder very often. I certainly don't. I mean, I don't think we we've really not talked about it outside of recording the podcast before and until we started really doing research. I mean, I'm sure some of us, I mean, I'm sure we're aware of it to some extent, the tensions and some of the stuff that's been popping up in the news. But when it comes to an existential dread feeling about the next thing that sparks World War three, it hasn't been on my radar. Yeah, what about you know, I mean, I just like you said, Um, the idea of a world war sort of seems like a relic at this point. It just feels like there's more kind of small conflicts surrounding specific issues, or maybe we come into the aid of a country, you know, if it sort of serves our interests. But like, I don't know, the closest thing maybe I could see would be what's happening in Ukraine, and just like you know, the the the maneuvering of someone like a dictator uh type figure like Putin who maybe you know, while it's not certainly not on par with what was going on with Hitler, Um, it's the kinds of actions when escalated farther enough, the world sort of demands, uh, you know, action uh. And I don't think we're there yet, you know, with that. But that's the closest thing that I could think of. I just I guess it just feels like the world is interconnected in such a way now that maybe it wasn't during the eras of the first two World wars, So it seems less likely for it to be an all out, all encompassing everyone's on board on one side or the other, you know, conflict. Yeah, that makes sense. The idea that we are at the end of history, the idea that wars as understood in preview is millennia no longer apply. Like the idea of a world war when everyone is financially connected becomes a very different conversation. So, as we're saying now, a lot of people aren't aware of this tension between China and India, nor how specific it is. You will see authors writing about it in near future sci fi like Neil Stephenson's Termination Shock. But this is a real thing. It's a border. Most people in the world will never visit. It is constantly shifting. It's about two thousand miles long. It's in the middle of nowhere. It's not a place you would go for fun. It's in the Himilaya Mountains and not the fun part. And neither the government of India nor the government of China will actually call it a border. And they've been beefing about this for decades. Instead, for many decades they have been calling this the quote line of actual control. As we record today's podcast, it is the largest, most dangerous border dispute on the planet. Then In researching this, it feels to me like a little bit like the d m Z that we talked about between the DPRK and South Korea. And but it's but it's a morphous in a very different way. It's uh, it feels like it can change, really really change, like depending on which side you're on and what you decide to believe in the moment, if you're a commander, let's say, or somebody who's in charge of a military either I can't wait to get into this, but why why don't we take a quick break. We'll come right back in and learn about the line of actual control. Here's where it gets crazy. So the story really starts back in the late fifties when India and China had a proper beef properly beefed up UM and modern history, these countries have fought only one war against each other. Mind you, the Sino Indian War UM, which took place for just a single month, seems like not that big a deal. Right from November to October of nineteen sixty two, India lost that conflict or confrontation or whatever event they want to call it, UH, and China unilaterally declared a ceasefire. But let's just not forget that a ceasefire really is just kind of like pressing pause on a conflict, and it can be rescinded and any thought. Sometimes cease fires can go on for a very long period of time if you know, an actual um official declaration of you know, an end to the war can take place, right, So like a ceasefire band could last year's sure. Yeah, and I like that you brought up the Korean peninsula because that war also has not ended. There's an armistice, right, So this ceasefire in nineteen sixty two means that the countries never agreed on what constituted a border. They just started using the phrase line of actual control, which is and this is on purpose, and none of the none of us are proud of this. This is an example of the overuse of the phrase liminal space in contact in context. I know, Matt, I see you. We love liminal space as we talk about them all the time. It's like a place between the place like the airport is a good example of where I mean it actually can be a real example in terms of like where duty free rates apply. You're not actually in the US, but you're not actually in the country yet, so you're in this kind of middle ground that allows you to buy whiskey and bulk without paying tax um. But if you're you see that duty free shop and you're not you know, on an international flight, you're not in that space, but you're still in the liminal space that allows you to have a drink at eight in the morning. So two of the most populous countries on the planet say, hey, let's just agree that we do not agree, and let's look at the facts on the ground. You know, who controls what, and they mapped it out. You can look at any number of these attempts to map out the line of actual control. But be aware of folks, the maps are wildly different. Yeah, but either way, and no matter what your map looks like, let's say you're either China or India, you say, you know, even though we're not really sure where these lines are, let's definitely put a bunch of troops, like as close as we can get to whatever that thing is on both sides, which is always you know, a way to really reduce tension. If you imagine the countries as stressed out individuals, how would you map how would we uh how would we illustrate or demarcate the line of actual control? Well, guys, I do not know this region very well. I am a guy in Atlanta talking to you about it. This information comes from the Hindustan Times. And where do they quoting been Oh, they are quoting members of Indian military. Well, there you go. So this is maybe one perspective on as well as as well as Indian government outside of the military. Got it. Well, this is what we have. The line of actual control runs between China's Tibet Autonomous Region and the Indian states of Arunachal Pradesh in the northeast, Himachal Pradesh and Utra Khand and Ladock in the north. And I pronounced those things incorrectly. I apologize. Those are names that you likely aren't aware of. But you can look some of those things up if you wish. Yes, perfect, If you pull up a world map and you zoom in to southwestern China, call it that right, and you see the the Himalayan Mountains, then along that line, essentially wherever there is not a Nepal or Bhutan, then there is Chinese Indian border dispute, burn Indian Chinese border dispute, and there are two major areas on the on either side right right, the sides that are not Nepal, and there in the middle because they're higher up in the mountains. So, like you said, Matt, there are troops on both sides of this not a border trademark, and they get in fights all the time, and both countries are terrified of giving any ground, which is weird because they feel like nothing occurs in a vacuum. So if either side of the L A C or Line of actual Control gives an inch, they will lose a mile. And maybe we can talk about some of their concerns. Yes, indeed, UM concerns on both sides. To the west, the L A C Line of actual Control runs along the already quite tense Kashmir border UM India. It's also very worried that Pakistan UM might use any territorial shift to kind of bolster their own claim to Kashmir UM. And this is a very reasonable concern UM. So they're not going to give at all if they can do anything in their power to to keep from doing so. UM. The western l A C also runs along the Chinese controlled Axi at Chin region also known as Eastern Ladoc. You mentioned earlier, matt Uh. This is basically, well, actually Western China Shinjiang uh Weaker territory, which is, as many listeners know, We've talked about it plenty of times, is an ethnic group that has been on the receiving end of some pretty awful discrimin nation and horrible treatment by the government of China um as the government of China continues to crack down on that population um through various programs of assimilation. They also don't want to give any territory to India because it could further destabilize an already kind of if he you know, region of control. These are kind of geopolitically speaking, Razor thin Margins were talking about here, because right in that same area I have at least the maps I'm looking at. It's not circular necessarily, but it looks like a small circle where you've got China on one side, you've got India kind of coming up to a point, and then Pakistan right here. And like you were saying, Ben, like it does make total sense that India would be super weird and out about any kind of development within the border there, within that circle or the other line of control between India and Pakistan. Yeah, it's weird, right. Imagine, you know, if making it a micro cosmic example, let's imagine you live in a subdivision and you hate your neighbors, but but you're you have the same backyard fences, and you will moved in when there was some sort of chain link fence already there. And so now you're starting to think about whose backyard is, who's right, or whoms is whoms if we're being fancy. So this is this is a dangerous thing because one tremendous point stands out. China and India are nuclear powers. If you look at the other side of what's called the line of actual control, you will see that east of Bhutan, there's a whole other thing geopolitically. And the thing we need to know for now is this neither of these sides, neither India nor China, ever agreed on an actual border. Both of them are powerful, as you said, Matt, both of them can launch nuclear weapons, and they both have, as you said, Noel, incredibly understandable fears about what would happen if they give an inch, you know, And maybe the best way to put it is that what we're looking at is two immovable objects that find themselves occupying the same space. It is not a sustainable calculation. It's not even possible. Physics says no. Physics says no. Okay, So why is there not a war? Well, as we're recording this, there isn't one yet. Hopefully when we get back there still won't be one because we're gonna take a quick and we're back. Why indeed isn't there that war that we've been teasing at this whole time, or maybe at least asking the question of what does it take for this to happen in this day and age? Weirdly enough, India and China are, as you mentioned, well, both of you, Matt and been mentioned, economically reliant on one another um to a kind of absurd degree. Um. They are very much part of a delicate balance in terms of how much they need each other for imports and exports and all of that. And a lot of that has to do with that proximity that we talked about. India is China's second largest trading partner. Um from this trade relationship was essentially the equivalent of eleven point five eight three billion dollars um. That would be an absolute catastrophe, Uh, if it was messed with, you know, and this is something that folks are taking into serious consideration when making these kinds of plays, are deciding whether or not to do so with these territorial disputes. And just to be clear, that is China trading goods to India. Yeah, and US dollars. It's a lot of money. And look, there's no secret. Uh, the government of China has tremendous military capabilities. So if everything else were taken out of the equation, it would be a pretty one sided war. But you know, nobody wants to have these huge conflicts. As a result, after a bunch of low levels skirmishes and back and forth, things got a little bit less heated. Back in September seven of that year, both countries came together and said, well, we still don't agree, but we're gonna do it politely. That's what I know. I just like that. Well, you know, yeah, let's just kind of keep this thing as it is. Um. It's this thing known as the Border Peace and Tranquility Agreement Tanquility Inclusion. It's it does it seems lovely? Yeah? Yeah, it's uh, it did this little thing where how did you put it in Oh, they just said they're gonna keep the status quo. They're going to continually disagree politely until they find a permanent solution, and they're gonna work together to build confidence. See that's confidence building in itself. Hey, well they did. They did some cool stuff, right. They said, look, we're going to control the amount of force and the type of force we use on this part of the world that we disagree about. Right, and they specifically said neither side shall use or threatened to use force against the other by any means. They also said no activities of either side shall overstep the line of actual control. So you can like talk big, you can wave flags, you can do oh to your earlier two Knowle's earlier point. You know you uh, you noted about you noted the enmity between these forces. You guys remember the Pakistani Indian border ceremony, right, Matt, do you know what the marching with the legs up really high and yeah, it's like foreheads they got a horn. I mean, is this is essentially that line in the sand everyone's always talking about, you know, or like the one in the Looney Tunes cartoons where you know, bugs Bunny consistently crosses it here and then keeps redrawing in until inevitably somebody falls off a cliff. Except in most cases there is no line. You're in the line of the mind is uh, it is definitely a you should you yeah? Well yeah, And that's why they put things in there that basically stated, you know, if you let's say you're in a if you're a bunch of troops, you're going through the mountains in this region, and you realize all of a sudden, oh crap, I'm on the wrong side of this thing. Uh. They put language in there to say you just if you find yourself in that position, you just back off, go in the correct direction for whichever country you are representing. And we're gonna say it's okay, because remember, when you're here, you are a peacekeeping force, you're not a military, right. Yeah. Oh, the the weather mislead us. We're south of the mountain. We gotta get north of that real quick. Let's let's remember we all agree, okay, So spoiler neither side consider this ideal situation. They had a lot of hand to hand combat, a lot of on the ground disagreements about who was on which side of which line. So the governments of India and China go back to the drawing board in n same year as the Olympics in Atlanta, Georgia, and they totally did not care about that because they were trying to make sure there was not a nuclear war. And this deal gets pretty explicit. This is the one that says, quote, neither side shall open fire or hunt with guns or explosives within two kilometers from the line of actual control. Realizing as we know now that neither side agrees on what the line of actual control is. That's why they said two kilometers. They said two clicks because they were at least anywhere. Oh, there's probably one right now who's like kilometer by elevation or a kilometer by like flat distance European swallow or African swallows. Just so, but see what that that means. That's four kilometers in total, right two kilometers from either side of whatever the line is. That's a big old swath of land right there, if you measure it all the way across. Seems a little wasteful, doesn't it. But also, like, I mean, isn't this the kind of situation like it would really take somebody flexing on the other side and to create a conflict or to create an event or an incident, let's just call it, that might lead to a conflict, like you know, shooting somebody who crossed their idea of the line, or it's just some hapless hunter out there who is doing their regular hunting with explosives thing. Yeah, it's like fishing with dynamite. You know, everybody knows that's the best way. Those snow leopards are everywhere, you know, Yeah, you gotta get them. You gotta hunt the snow leopards with grenades apparently, but this is this is true since there have been no firearms quote unquote allowed, and that agreement has been broken many times. What it's led to largely is a series of grudge matches, hand to hand combat. You like UFC, you like m m A, you like mosh pits. There's a Himalayan mosh pit right now. People are hitting each other with sticks, people are throwing stones, they're broken bones. There are no a k s or collision to cause real time on the ground Krav Magaw training there it is. Yeah, and uh, there was an incident in in Gadwin Valley that led to fatalities. This was one of the most significant border escalations in quote unquote peacetime in modern history. Right, and both sides, by the way, blame each other for the event. Uh, and no one wants to be responsible for starting an actual war, like like you guys point out, like there, these countries are economically reliance upon one another. And that's why you can see multiple videos your browser of choice where it looks like people motion in uniform. It looks like two large crowds just pushing each other. It's weird. The most recent videos that went mainstream came out three weeks before we recorded this episode on January nine. How would how would you guys describe that one um seeing barbed wire on one side that appears to represent some kind of border, but then troops from either side with it looks like lumber honestly in some cases, in other cases huge makeshift clubs, and they are, as you said, literally hitting each other and pushing each other even though there is a like a razor wire or barbed wire fence in between the two groups. Doesn't look very pleasant. Is what you call a skirmish, right, Like a little border skirmish where you know, there's like again an incident, Um, But Hopefully it doesn't result in a bunch of fatalities, because if it did, that would escalate. It is strange because it does appear that there is a concentrated, large group of one of the sides. It appears to be perhaps the Chinese troops that are kind of corralled maybe and they're just not really moving, but they are being attacked. It's very I mean, that's what it looks like from my view. And also I like that you're bringing up views who is holding the camera somebody on the Indian side, it appears, so there's a propaganda aspect of this war as well. There are loads of domestic reports in both countries that entirely seek to justify activities to support their perspectives. India claims that China has expansionist aims. They say China conspires with Pakistan. They also say that China is attempting to swallow up more territory each year, particularly as glaciers shift. Himalaya Mountains are home to uh a treasure trove of fresh water, and that water is you know, not going to be in glacier form for long. Well, yeah, and as it recedes that muddies the water, Oh, I didn't even mean to do it, um, but it does. It changes where the perceived border perhaps is, and is the border actually along the glacier as though you would uh line a border along a river. Let's say it's very common for humans to do that. What if the border is supposed to be along that glacier line, if the glacier recedes, then does that line stay in the same spot on the land or does it go and move with the And they, I believe the agreements call that a matter of differing perception, which is again a very polite sounding way to fundamentally disagree with someone. And let's be honest, if these were just regular street scuffles between gangs, our kids and a playground, you might see it become a meme or a footnote. Right. The problem is, even though these are not conflicts with firearms, often we're talking about proxies for two nuclear capable countries, and let us not forget people are dying and that's what this makes us think about. You could say, hey, that's a regional conflict that's between them. But if it's two countries two countries, do not world war make you know what I mean? Like you would need more countries. What of the world's countries to make a world war? I don't know how they calculate that. I've always wondered that. I mean, yeah, what what doth the world war make? Is it just three countries in very different parts of the world coalitions, right, Like it's about sort of yeah, you know, it's like you band together and then you have a conflict and then you know, I guess, yeah, what at what point did world War one become World War one? Because that was also they had to kind of coin that term, right even back then. I feel like I remember at least three different mixtapes in the early two thousands where someone declared a world war and that didn't catch on. They never got to the UN. They were just rapping. I think maybe that's part of the question behind all this too, is like you really brought up a good point. These are sort of labels that we put on things and sort of run with, and it really is maybe maybe there is, diplomatically speaking, some sort of metric for what what the you know, the criteria for world war is I don't remember it from history class though. It's when you invade poland that's when it becomes a world. When the Archduke Franz Ferdinand gets shot, We've got to stop invading Poland, you know what I mean, just as non Polish people. There are criteria, let's see it, says uh. In order to qualify as the World war, at least one of three criteria must be met at a state placed between multiple nations across the globe. Battles are fought in many different locations. These are still very big, and the war must be fought against great powers with significantly advanced technology. This is bullshnap whatever this says. Sorry, I don't buy this. This is from homework dot study dot com. Somebody got G and college. All right, So that's the problem, you know, I do. I do note that it's value. It's valid to talk about the real estate. Though the war is like real estate. It's geography. It's location, location, location. Geography determines the outcome of geopolitics as much, if not more, than human tactics and policies. So, if China and India did enter a conflict, if they were deploying munitions or sending jets over that airspace which was quote unquote restricted airspace, the jets flew earlier I'm pretty sure if they, if they escalated this war, it would not just be between those two countries. No. No, That's why we pointed out at the beginning of this episode how important trading part Nurse China and India are to each other. I would say probably India a little more dependent on China just because they received so many goods. Same thing with the US and how many goods we received from China. And it does make me wonder so if this did, if that beef got bigger, Um, the US might have to support China, which is so weird that the first time I've had that it would that be true? Do you think that would be true? And I am not I am not privy to the act the geo political conversations that I hear you. I just think it feels to me like it would almost be Yeah, you'd have to be a play that would have to be made. Um, I don't know, that's creepy. You'd have to think about You'd have to think about Korea, the Korean Peninsula, Japan, Australia. Uh, there are so many variables, right, what's going on with Pakistan, you know, which is a friend to China, Right, So these other players get sucked in. There's a domino effect. If China and India declare war, then Pakistan must take a stance, right, Japan must take a stance. Russia would be a different case. At this point, what we can say is that there are literally billions of people in China, literally billions of people in India, well one billion each, which means billions of people overall who are innocent. They have nothing to do with it. They're not involved in this stuff in the middle of nowhere in the him Alayas. But we also have to mention I love the point earlier about how world wars start. You can dismiss these kinds of things, but no, you brought up Franz Ferdinand commonly referred to as you know, the spark that started World War two. Yeah, I mean, and it really is kind of like how the history books right in or what we agree on. Because I was, you know again, I'm looking through this after that idiotic take that I rattled off, I saw an interesting perspective that some historians believe that the Thirty Years War has more claimed to be called World War One than World War One does. Um, just because of the number of you know parties involved, Um it really is. It's a matter of a war, you know, fought between major nations, and it doesn't take much to spark off a great conflict. And with this, I don't know. I I think we I think we have to ask ourselves. Is the line of actual control a thing that will turn into a border within a few years. I hope it doesn't lead to a war. I don't know, what do you think? I don't think it will just because of where where it is. Imagine fighting a full scale war in that territory, in those mountainous areas, at that elevation, in with those temperatures. It just feels like a really bad place to have a hot conflict. Who would have the upper hand? Do you think China? They already won once exactly pretty handily. Yeah, I don't know. Well they would win to India called Uncle Sam because there isn't that is a thing right now India and the United States. I don't know too much about it, but there's the relationship there is getting closer and closer. Yes, yeah, uh. And it's part of the U S strategy to contain China. China what they see as Chinese exp antonism, which is, you know, insulting if you're if you're a Chinese nationalist, right, don't don't try to box me in and so on. Uh, I don't know. I keep thinking about it. I am tempted to agree. I I doubt this is the likely cause of World War three, But consider this. If you wanted to start World War three, this would be a great place to start. You know, this would be a great place to false flags some stuff all you need, all It's relatively simple, right, Yes, I'll be right back. I'm gonna go do a little false flag action. You're like, I'm sorry, I feel like I'm starting a war. I don't know, it's bord, let's do it. I'm trying to think of why, Like what would be the motivations. I don't know. I'm not smart enough to understand there. Yeah, I can second and see a real reason either. It seems it would it would be uh, it would cause a chain reaction that would you know, really ripple outward and affect our relationship with those countries and then our ability to do trade and all of that. So, I don't know. I don't think it's in anybody's best interest. Yeah, unless it's an overall, you know, population reduction plan by someone in a darkened study who has just come up with a way to kill you know, hundreds of thousands of people, if not millions of people in couple uh swift moves. I don't know. It's feeling more and more like some people might be thinking that kind of stuff and it's freaking me out a little bit. Guys, but that's okay, same right. So let us know if you are uh, if you are acquainted with this border, let us know your thoughts. Do you believe that there is uh some sort of world war? What defines a world war? What do you what can you tell us and your fellow conspiracy realist about the relationship between China and India. We'd love to hear your thoughts. We try to be easy to find online. We do, and you can do that by reaching out to us on Twitter and on Facebook or we have a Facebook group called Here's where it Gets Crazy. You can join be a part of the conversation there, and those exist out of the handle Conspiracy Stuff Conspiracy Stuff Show. So we go by on Instagram. Yes, don't forget, Just in case you did, we do have a book and an audiobook it's titled stuff they don't want you to know. 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