From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noman. They call me Ben. You are you? And that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. We are joined by our super producer Alex Williams in the on the ones and twos today in the booth. Are there more than one? Now? Yeah, we have a we have we've expanded in twos and threes by my account. That's fair. Oh you meant more than one? Whatever stereo channels, it's true. There you go. That's the ones in the twos except our m P three's are monos, so we're working on changing them. Yeah, we're working on all sorts of things today. And if we don't take a if we don't take an ill fated trip, all of those things would come true. Just a bit of a bureaucratic notation here. Before we begin today's episode, you're going to see some uh, some big changes coming up with the stuff they'll want you to know. Should we give him the full scoop? I don't know, I don't know to inside Baseball or should we do like a dipp and dot kind of thing. We could just say we've been hashtag blessed with funding from on High, which could mean more and more shows, expansions. And there's a technature. Yeah, there's a tech Crunch article you can find if you wish to learn all about it. M M. Yeah. And we are you know, we have our parent company How Stuff Works. We are now officially our own thing with how Stuff Works. So now if now, if Matt Nolan, I say, uh, this goes all the way to the top, we're talking about the guy who works next next to us. Okay. In our previous episode, well the episode we previously recorded, we mentioned some maritime adventures, right, Noel, you and I have not been on cruises, however our compatriot has. Yes, do we want to rehash the cruises again? Boys? You were you weren't? You didn't hate it? I didn't hate it, And uh, it was a thing. It was a thing that happened, Yes, and it was a creepy and cruise right, which brought us to brought you perhaps to something that many people have heard of, the Bermuda Triangle. Yes, I was near it, but not in it. And yet here you sit right, I made it through, you guys reporting back. It was it was a little weird, but it was cool. And that is the as you know that as the alleged side of numerous plane crashes, boat sinkings, and disappearances. Yeah, but today we're going to examine the alleged Eastern version of this, the so called Devil's Triangle. According to legends, there have been tens of thousands of people who have tried to cross this stretch of ocean, only to perish or disappear in the attempt. In the modern era, so it goes to the story, several Japanese research and military vessels have also gone missing in this triangle, leading to a number of dead and disappeared estimated to be over seven people. Pretty pretty hefty stuff. Uh well, we'll get those claims in a bit. First, let's let's look at the facts. What are we talking about when we say Devil's Triangle. Well, it's not only known at the Devil's Triangle. It's also called the Devil's see the Dragon's Triangle and the Taiwan Triangle. And just as with the Bermuda triangle. It's even sometimes called the Devil's triangle. Dont donte dom Yeah, so it gets weird when we ask each other, you know, well, where is this? What was devil c Dragons triangle, Taiwan triangle? Ah, because there's no official world map that plots this. Yeah, it's written all over the place online where it's supposed to run from. You know, it's a triangle. So in theory it should have some pretty defined areas in which it, you know, is affecting the world around it. Usually it's said to run from Taiwan up to the volcanic island of Miyake Jima that's just south of Tokyo, and then to about Iwa Jima or somewhere in that vicinity pretty close. Both of those locations are along something called the Ezo moaning volcanic arc that's a laye of underwater volcano. It was an islands that stretch well, they're part of a larger system that stretches kilometers all the way from Japan to Guam. And some people like the author Charles Burletts, say that the Devil's see, which I think is my favorite name so far. What do you think I think Devil's see is quite I like ascribing a shape to it, implying that it's sort of a zone. See, it's pretty like the whole sea. Yeah, it's a scene that exists in itself. That's a good point. We didn't need to have parameters. Well, according to this author, Charles Burlets, the Devil's Triangle is every bit as dangerous and mysterious as the Bermuda Triangle. And we can imagine right now, how uh, the people who are very dismissive of the Bermuda Triangle might find this hilarious. Somebody is actually in their car right now going that is true. Oh me, oh my, for sure. But then there are other people in the audiences who, as soon as they hear Devil's Triangle, they think of the vile vortices, which is something that has been traded around amongst the mysteriously minded for quite a while. Vile vortices. Okay, what what's a vile vortes? Oh wait, that's the plural. What are vile vortices? Man? Well, a vile vortex is a concept. Really, it's the idea that there's perhaps something strange going on with either the Earth's electromagnetic system it's the way it functions. Maybe it's a little stronger in this place than anywhere else. And odd things tend to happen with metal objects and living beings. Okay, all right, So the idea then is that these are distributed across the planet. Yes, precisely, there are. There is a map of sorts that you can find, and it shows you where there's one at the North pole, and there's one of the South pole, and then the rest of them are kind of polka dotted in a pattern, albeit across the Earth. And we can trace this idea specifically to the author Ivan T. Sanderson, and he is at the source of a lot of these claims. When he first proposed this concept, other authors took it up and they attributed different causes as the source of the alleged disruption. Right. So, like you said, Matt, electromagnetic stuff gateway to hell um, paranormal things port to another dimension maybe extra dimensional, yeah, extra dimensional portals. And we have a rundown of the of the vortices that that you mentioned, Matt, that are distributed across the planet. Ladies and gentlemen, would you like to know where they are? Okay, let's start at the North and South Pole. If that's okay, just because that's kind of obvious. If you're talking about electromagnetic strangeness, you're gonna have perhaps some things going on at the North and South Pole. Then you move on to the Bermuda Triangle. That's the you know, the granddaddy of these vortices. Uh. Then you got the Algerian Megaaliths. This is just south of Timbuck two uh. And there you can find this stuff online if you want to learn more about these other specific vortices, and perhaps you know, we can pick some of these up later. The Intes Valley over in Pakistan, there's oh, there's a volcano just east of Hawaii. That's a pretty interesting place. We got the Devil c the one we're talking about today, the Triangle, whatever you wanna call it. There's a oh, well, I'm gonna save this one for last, the Wharton Basin, and you can you can find a link to that on Kipedian. Check that out. The Easter Island. Make a list of the statues the just east of Rio de Janeiro. There's a section an area over there that's said to be part of this The Loyalty Islands, which are I believe between just north of the intersection, or I guess the area between New Zealand and Australia. Then my favorite one by far the South Atlantic anomaly, which perhaps is this whole separate episode on its own. It's this place where the Van Allen Belts dip a little bit closer to Earth than the rest of the belts. So you have this radiation at x miles above the Earth that's much higher than it should be and is in any other part of the Earth and can interfere with high altitude orbital craft as well as spacecraft. Right. Yeah, Even astronauts have reported, specifically those above on the Space Shuttle when we would orbit, that they would get the the shooting stars in their eyes when they would go near that area. So then later on down the road they had to improve the radiation shielding for any other vessels, specifically the International Space Station. Folks, they don't know the vent Alan Belts are like, it's like a charged area in the atmosphere. Yeah, it's uh, it's the things. These are the major reason that people one of the major reasons that people believe we never went to the Moon because you couldn't get through that in theory, right right, yeah, and these can they fluctuate, right, but this specific area has a higher rate. So then allen belts wax wayne and depend on solar energy and sometimes they can damage satellites. And I think you are correct. We do have a South Atlantic anomaly episode in our future. Today, most oceanographers or naval experts and scholars and related disciplines are going to has missed the vast majority of claims made by Ivan Sanderson and his supporters, and they're gonna say that's malarkey, don't believe it via vort disease or a whole another other realm of the made up uh. And you know, we see this, We see similar things happen with theories about lay lines or something when they see people are just drawing lines at random and ascribing meaning to them. But what exactly is supposed to be going on here? So in his book UM, which was probosed ninet nine called The Dragon's Triangle, this author of Burlitz said that Japan lost five military vessels in the area that we're talking about between n and that UM accounts for a loss of somewhere in the neighborhood of seven hundred sailors. Another author by the name of Dan Cohen wrote a book in nineteen seventy four called Curses, Hexes and Spouse Calls, in which he reported that legends of the Danger of the Devil, ce, Devil's Triangle, what have you, are centuries old, as far as Japanese lore goes um so it's most famous modern casualty was the number five Kyo Maru, which was a scientific research vessel that disappeared with the loss of everyone on board um on September twenty four, nineteen fifty three. And that's a date that's wrongly reported often then yeah, yeah, yeah, um sometimes nineteen fifty two, nineteen fifty eight, but the actual date is nineteen fifty three. And by any any single person's measurement, it is it is an enormous tragedy to lose people. Let's see. But let's let's look at some of these other claims. There's stories and allegations. That's number five Kayo Maru. That's the most well known modern one according to other pro proponents of the idea. As Noel mentioned just a second ago, the story dates back for centuries. So you will hear tales of fleets from China and Kubla Khan going missing in the area. The specific legend that we're digging around in is one that says in the twelve hundreds Kubla Khan tried several times to invade Japan by crossing the Devil's Triangle. In this process, according to his story, he lost his vessels and he lost forty thousand men are especially the time. Yes, it is um, and we mentioned, you know, we we mentioned that they've wrongly reported the date of that Modern Tragedies nineteen fifty two or nineteen fifty eight, which lets us know that things slip a little um with the Cayu Maru. Oftentimes, the authors who say that this is an example of somebody being lost in Japan's Bermuda Triangle. Uh, they often make increasing the unsubstantiated claims, and they say that everything from visiting Ufo to some sort of lost style electromagnetic fluke. I didn't say what happened. I knew you were going to say that I didn't. Oh man, there's an entire wiki dedicated to lost I'm not yeah, I'm I'm not standing down on that one. The other examples that we heresided are often going to be portrayed as military vessels or large commercial vessels disappearing in calm weather with no clear explanation. That's the thing where it gets weird for me is like, you know, you've got these giant vessels where there's meticulous bookkeeping, they know exactly who's on board, what's on board, and there's you know, protocol of keeping in touch with home base. That's the stuff that really makes me kind of like, thank is this a thing? You know? Yeah, I absolutely absolutely agree that's the Like, the ocean is vast and deep, right, but we also have technology even the fifties that would allow people to be in if not continual, incredibly frequent communication with someone else, you know what I mean, Radio existed. Uh. You know, there's one thing. One of the pieces of research that we looked at in this I think we should just mention at this point was Skeptic wid who did an episode on this and mentions that a lot of the times the large military vessels from way back in the day that were reported being missing, we're actually fishing vessels. Um, just just pointing that out right, I'm glad you mentioned that. We'll we'll see that coming up again later on in the show. For now, we've I think we painted some of the lore and some of the the legend and the claims. Here, let's take a look at the evidence evidence after a word from our sponsor. Unfortunately, evidence of this devil's triangle or see in action is extremely hard to come by, right Sure, Sure, of course there are historical records of fishing boats going missing, sinking, or wrecking throughout regional history, throughout global history, from the ancient past to the modern day. However, in this instance, there are no cases of scholars at the time citing a dragon's triangle or attributing widespread paranormal causes to these tragedies. It was enough for most of human history to just acknowledge that, you know, the ocean is a very dangerous and deadly place and people are not built for it. To be fair, there were also numerous spiritual explanations for the tragedy, But I think we canna agree that's a that's a very different thing made. It's more of a belief system, maybe even in some level coping mechanism. But we would be remiss if we did not talk about the kublack Hahn adventure. Because first things first, there really was an attempted invasion of Japan by the Mongol forces in the twelve hundred's. Not only was there one, there was more than one. I guess anything that isn't one is more than one. In Cresson zero, somebody saved me here, right. So in twelve seventy four, the Yuon fleet set out with an estimated fifteen thousand Mongol and Chinese soldiers and eight thousand Korean soldiers in three hundred large vessels, and they also had four hundred to five hundred smaller craft. Um although figures very widely has to heten do with these things depending on the source. Man, that is a massive fleet. It's a pretty pretty mega fleet. Uh So they initially made significant progress into the area, but then around nightfall, a typhoon caused the Mongol ship captains to suggest the land force re embark in order to avoid the risk of being um, you know, shipwrecked marooned on Japanese soil, which would be bad times. Right. So they were saying, okay, the weather is clearly sourings, we need to hop on the boats here and get back before we are stuck. And who knows what would have happened. You know, maybe other supporting Japanese forces could have come to the area. Can we just set the scene here bends a little bit, or if you would maybe help. What's what's at stake here? What is the kind of like the surrounding reason before this of this event. Well, if we're painting with broad brush strokes, the typical say, the typical line would be that the Mongol Empire depended upon expansion, so it's sort of like unrestricted capitalism. It didn't it could exist without things to consume, you know what I mean. And also the Mongol forces of the time, we're not well known seafaring fighters. They were, they were you know, they didn't have an awesome navy. They were much more well known for their ability to wage one horses for their specialized bows, which were some real, uh, real fascinating stuff. We're talking about explosives, we're talking about rockets. Uh. But can I just pause the conversation here for one second, everybody take one step back. As we're recording this, we're in the aftermath of Harvey here in the United States, and then Hurricane Irma is on its way possibly to striking Florida. Definitely gonna hit the Caribbean islands even coming through Atlanta. Yeah, imagine in the twelve hundreds, you're, you know, you were experts at the sea, if you're you know, the captain of a naval ship back and especially in a military capacity. Still you don't have Doppler radar from across, you know, the other side of the ocean to see as a typhoon is forming and like to really get an understanding of where it's headed or what's going on. That's that's an intense situation because you know, it has to be pretty close just to even see it. You know, I would I I completely agree. I also would be quick not to underestimate the knowledges folks have because they're probably reading the migratory patterns of birds. They're probably noticing little things that would pass most of us completely by, you know. But it's a great point. But still it's not But still you make a great point. It's not comparable to having Doppler radar or something. By daybreak, only of almost all the ships had set out to sail back to mainland China um and those that had. This is where the Devil's Dragons triangle stuff comes in because those that have were destroyed by the storm. We're talking about around two d Mongol ships lost a sea um. The small Japanese boats were much more maneuverable than the Mongol ships, and so the remaining ships were on the Mongols I were boarded by the Japanese and cripple took over. Very un good double plus bad day for everybody, or double un plus. I mean, I'm not caught up in. The Mongols would attempt another invasion just fe years later, in twelve eighty one. So that is as we can see. That is like the root of the cryptic references you'll hear in these vile vortices or dragons triangle books about uh the the great cons who words were lost in the well and as as intense and horrifying as being caught in a typhoon, I'm assuming is I have never experienced it, but I'm assuming it's intense. Especially then it would have been considered not such a strange thing, right, I mean, what people are aware of weather patterns in the force of nature at that time, and you attribute it to, you know, whatever you attribute it to, but generally it's kind of mundane. Was there may be a sense that like the Bermuda Triangle, in some of these areas of you know, disturbance, shall we say, are maybe more prone to extreme weather conditions, and that's sort of what gives them this reputation because there's just you know, that far out to see you're gonna get bigger storms than you are closer to the mainland. I don't know, that's a great question. One of the things that we run into a lot here in the modern day is that authors and critics, opponents and proponents of different ideas will accuse each other of misleading the audience. So Charles Burlitz gets accused of sort of editorializing this thing. Um, this is this instance of a failed invasion and taking a as Matt said, completely explicable sort of series of events and reframing it as something in a poorly written reality TV show. You know, that's the thing about reality television that just to go a little bit off air here. I was never the biggest fan, but I had no idea how much of that stuff is scripted? And carefully will they call it produced? Beause the like industry term for that stuff is unscripted, exactly right, And I think, yeah, I think off air the three of us, at least of all run into what that looks like a little bit behind the curtain, you know. And I guarantee you if you if you watch reality television, I wish you the best and I hope you have a good time with it. But to be to be aware that, I'm sure most people know that every time the camera is not directly on somebody who is making a big deal out of an incredibly insignificant problem, there is a producer or an assistant producer who's sort of grooming them and coaxing them man in some cases trying to get them drunk. And this is sort of like that, only the individuals being described didn't really have a say in it at all. It's just kind of one guy sort of painting with a broad brush, I guess, and uh, deciding with the narrative actually, And I mean we see that all the time with history. I mean they say history is written by the by the victors, and this is a little bit different than that. But I will never forget the end of the Ozzy Osbourne reality TV show where they show you the behind the scenes of the scripted parts. Oh really, yeah, I it blew my mind. Blew my mind. Ozzy Osborne can read well, and I said it was a long time ago. When you imagine that was I guess high school for me. I can't even remember exactly what it was. But you know, I don't remember where this came from, and I will try to find it and put it on our social media. I read somewhere that there was a study being conducted, genetic study being conducted on Ozzy Osbourne. I don't know if this was a hoax, because they were trying to figure out how he could have done so many drugs and still you know, not had debilitating disease and still be relatively all there. I certainly hope he included Keith Richards in that study, right, Yeah, he should be in there too. Um, we've got to well, let's see, well, let's give the show a little bit and see if we can. We can dig that up as we proceed. But yes, also, to be fair to Mr Burlet's we have not spoken with him directly, and to be even even uh, to be even more fair, Um, this typhoon, this historic typhoon, did occur at an abnormal time. The invasion took place in November, but the typical Typhoon season runs from May to October. We've already started talking about some of the problems with this story, and this legend American author named Larry Kush published The Bermuda Triangle Mystery Solved. I know, along the way he debunked or for many people, he debunked Burlits his claims about the Bermuda Triangle and the Dragons Triangle. He says that the military vessels that were mentioned that as we allude to earlier, were actually just fishing vessels. Now why does that matter, Well, it matters because fishing vessels are easily lost, and they're extremely common, right, and they're probably a little bit smaller, and they're yeah, they're going to be in many cases, they're gonna be much much smaller, and uh, for those to get lost is an unfortunate reality of life at sea, especially if we're considering also that many of the fishing military vessels have the ability for their story to be known. They probably have better communications systems, you know, might not be the case with a lot of smaller, uh, fishing vessels you know, anywhere from mom and pop operations to like local businesses or local regional businesses. But there's more. Yes, yes, as Billy Mays was wont to say, is indeed more some of those crashes listed by Charles Burlett's sank outside the area that's the mind as the dragons triangle, that is that a problem with where they sank or you know, the boundaries of the Dragons triangle. Maybe it's bigger than we think, Maybe it is, Maybe it is. Cush also wrote that the Japanese vessel carried not a hundred personnel, as burl its a claim, but only thirty one, and that an undersea volcano is what destroyed it. M Now, that's peculiar on its in its own right in my mind, yeah, under see volcano has sound weird. And then okay, another another problem with this idea. If the legend really does go back for centuries and centuries, then why isn't there more scratched that any information about it in the historical record from any of the countries lining the place where this this triangle is supposed to exist? And then Enters skept the skeptoids. Brian Dunning He did or supposedly did a search for any type of newspaper, magazine, articles, books, really anything written down specifically about the dragons see Triangle, Devil's Triangle, all that stuff, and he came up empty handed until twenty years after the loss of the Cayumaru. Apparently the story then just became it was, was breathed into existence. So yeah, apparently this legend of things going back for centuries was a fairly recent invention, at least according to Brian Dunning and the research he conducted. The first written records of the Trian will only show up in the nineties seventies, and then when they blew up in the fringe scene, the literature became flooded with accounts of this new mysterious region, with tales that had been feared for centuries. Nearly all published references. Again Dunning sites this as well do as well as a couple of others. Nearly all published references are from the early seventies, and they're immediately upon the heels of Ivan Sanderson's articles from nineteen seventy one two, and all of that stuff led Downning to conclude that quote, in short, there is no devil Cy and there never was outside the imagination of Ivan Sanderson and the authors who wrote about his vile vortices. But it sounds so great. Vile vortices. They're just really like disgusting. Yes, yeah, they squeeze toothpaste from the middle. They picked their noses forgot to shower for about a month. So uh. Personally, I think the phrase vile vortices sounds um like a super villain weapon, like something Cobra Commander would use. Yeah, or a team. It's like a team of somebody who's really really dastardly. It's just a it's like a by gang that got a hold of a thesaurus but didn't read the whole entry from Pokemon. So we we do, you know, we do hate to look. We all want to believe in these amazing extraordinary things. And the long and short of it is, in the research that we found, in primary historical sources and in common parlance in the area, this is largely considered a myth, and it's not treated with near as much prominence as several other local or regional h extraordinary events or beliefs. And this is in many ways kind of a Western thing. Yeah, it's a It's a thing that people in the coast of China and in the coast of Japan don't really think about, give near as much credence to it feels like a tale of the other Yeah, yeah, and haven't for uh certainly haven't been worrying about it for centuries. Most people are you know, uh, families or friends on the coast, just hoping their loved ones make it back. Before you know, a storm hits or disaster occurs, which are real dangerous. But we're not ending the tail there yet. We do have some explanations a peak if you will, behind the curtain, after a word from our sponsors, welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. As we promised before the break, we have some possible explanations for some of these bizarre occurrences in the Devil's Sea. Um. Starting off, there's pretty much no way around it. But boats and ships and vessels you know what float uh, they really have disappeared in this area of the Pacific, you know quite a bit in fact, um that much is true. But what's the deal with the triangle or with with all of the triangles? You know what? Why? What? Very the second like, what's the deal with that? Any seinfeld bit seinfeld e rooney too interesting? But really really really really yes, what's going on? Why aren't there more devil's squares or Devil's octagons. Obviously, you know you gotta have some hangs and angles, Devil's pentagram. Come on, that's what I'm saying. You know you Devil's not a square. The Devil's not a circle, alright, Devil is clearly a triangle or a series of triangles shaped like a goat's head. Literally, edgy, Okay, too much, that's fine, Um, but yeah, like that's true. But what's what why? So you know we there there is research that explorers some of these environmental changes um as the cause of such anomalies as said, triangle triangles. Um. One of these explanations is that the vast field of methane hydrates that exists at the bottom of the ocean in that area could potentially have something to do with these disturbances that we talked about. The originally of some people attributed to an electromagnetic lost kind of situation. These are to me the existence of these So yeah, this is this is very unfair. Nature's brutal and unfair. This is one example Nature doesn't care about you. No, not at all. Uh. There are these deposits of methane hydrates gas that thing class rates, and when they reach a certain temperature, they will quote unquote explode that temperature just so you know, is not very insane in sixty four degrees thankfully there you know the bottom of the ocean. Yeah, they're these ice like deposits that break off from the bottom and they can rise, forming bubbles on the surface of the water. And again this is just like, this is the scary part. This theoretical. Uh, these gas eruptions could interrupt buoyancy. What this means is they could easily sink a ship, leaving no trace of debris. You would just be sailing along and then like it would suck you down. Essentially, it almost you lose buoyancy, so you would just you're the ship will just go. When I pictured your Bermuda triangle, that's kind of what I've always pictured is something like that. So that's pretty wild. See in my head, it's it's a vortex essentially. So you're saying it literally just disrupts the ability of your vessel to float. It would be like a bunch of air bubbles down below your ship that you're going over and you just kind of and it's not exactly that because I pictured like the water just opening up in like a hole and then you just fall down. And I always pictured, you know, I remember so many films or older, older things, like episodes of the Twilight Zone, where there would be this gray, all enveloping fall rolling in and then you know, the the captain or the pilot of a plane, for instance, they do the thing where they tap their there yea, their compass and stuff and the altimeter and everything's going crazy and next thing you know, it opens up in there in a weird unknown land. But then they crashed or they're like on top of a mountain or something. I remember, really, I gotta, I gotta harp on this. So the water is affected in such a way that it will not support the weight of the ship. So here's here's the problem. No one has ever seen an actual eruption like this. You wouldn't No one would be left to tell the tale. No one knows how large the bubbles coming off the methane deposit would be. But theory, but yeah, but the scientists who pump your brakes, but the but the the There are scientists who have conducted research on this, and they found that they made a model of a single large bubble coming up under a ship, and they trapped trapped water between vertical class plates. They launched gas bubbles from the bottom right, and they used a video camera to record what happened to this whole they have floating on the surface. If the thing is exactly above the bubble, then it's safe. But if it's far enough way, if it's where it's towards the edge, that it just sinks in and so it doesn't explode, the bubble sort of swallows it for lack of a better word, which to me is more frightening than an explosion. No, you're helping me out real big with my mental image of this phenomenon. It's freaking me out. Uh this is is this uh the best advertisement for cruise ever? I don't really. I don't want to be that far out in the other man, you know, we just did the Titanic. I mean, like, come on, we really are scaring people away from you know, being on the ocean right now. Well, no reason to stop yet, because there's a different explanation, right should we get into great white sharks instead? You know? Because yeah, what's up with you? Save that for another day. I'm just saying, like, another reason why I don't like to swim in the ocean. Bo okay, let's keep going. Oh okay, Well, another reason that ships could disappear more frequently in this area would be that small isle in this triangle and the dragons triangle UH frequently disappear in new islands frequently up here due to um volcanoes and seismic activity. We cannot forget, ladies and gentlemen, about the Ring of Fire. The Ring of Fire is this huge twenty five thousand mile horseshoe shaped area in the basin of the Pacific Ocean down there at the bottom, including in the area that we consider to be the Devil's Sea. It's uh. It's home to just a ton of earthquakes and volcanic activity down there. It's associated with almost a continuous creation of trenches, oceanic trenches, of volcanic arcs, volcanic belts, plate movements, and it has over four hundred and fifty volcanoes. That's over seventy of the world's active and dormant volcanoes exist in this Ring of fire down at the bottom of the ocean. So is it possible that a volcanic eruption on the ocean floor could reach a ship. Well, yeah, you're just talking about the release of gases again as the you know, the immense heat that's being generated right below where the water is and then coming up and meeting with that water, creating steam that has to get pushed up. Again, you're talking about swallowing ships potentially. I know that. Um, this is this kind of ridiculous. Twenty fifteen, there was an active underwater volcano that was that came to life off of Granada and you guys will really enjoy the name. Are you ready? It was called the kick Him Jenny volcano. Kick him Jenny. Yeah, yeah, like that like three words. If it's New Zealand, Uh, keep him kick him Jimmy, Jimmy or Jenny. Yeah, oh boy, everybody and everybody in New Zealand. We apologize we've been practicing this accident. I don't think we have any New Zealand listeners left at this point. No, right in and let us know, actually, let us know about Keyweek conspiracies too. We'd love to hear those. Um. So the problem with this is I'm bringing this up because this is a good um, this is a good specific example of the problems here because not only is a underwater volcano powerful enough, as as Matt said, to affect the surface, but it could even shoot hot rocks into the air. Uh, these can be massive. In the case of kick Him Jenny Um, scientists set up an exclusion zone for ships around the volcano. Recreational ships had to stay three miles away from it, and I think commercial ships had to stay a mile or two away just in case. So it is completely possible that some of these ships, maybe even the Maru that we mentioned earlier number five, it is possible that these ships were instead the victims of volcanoes. Wow. That's terrifying and for me, much more terrifying than a mysterious devil's area. Yeah, what about mysterious gas bubbles? That's that's that's the one that gives me pause. Yeah, I feel like a fiery death at c is Um more understandable than just all this sudden saying, oh we're on the water, now we're in it. Why can't I breathe? Yeah, Yeah, that's the thing that I mean, like a fiery death and see, it seems like it would leave behind more flotsam and jetsam and whatnot, and like the whole you know, kicker of these of these places usually tends to be gone without a trace, right, Like that's sort of like the the calling card. I guess, yeah, and then if you do find them, it's you know, fifty two hundreds of years it or at the bottom of the sea. And we'd like to know what We would like to know what your experiences are, your maritime experiences, and most importantly, what your take is on these ideas of uh the Bermuda triangle, the Dragons triangle. Also, you know, I want to ask people, well, which idea about this vile vortices thing in general, because we would love to hear about a source that comes from before the nineteen fifties. Let's say, you know, I do you live near one, right? Could you go check it out? Or have you had any experiences there? That's how we find out if we have any friends in the Eastern Islands. If so, we may be coming to uh your house to crash. Will be there in two weeks? And is it? Will it take us two weeks? Well, it's just there's a lot of planning that goes into that. That's probably true. Ye, uh so unfortunately, Yeah, a lot of the stuff about this seems to have sprung up after the fact with a little supporting evidence in the preceding literature. However, we do know that there is absolutely nothing fictitious about losing ships at sea. According to a maritime assure named Alian's, losses at sea continue in the modern day. Yeah, I mean this is still clearly happening. We've got UM stats from two thousand seven to indicating that the area comprising South China, Indonesia, and the Philippines UM counted two hundred and forty nine lost ships, while the area north of that think Japan, the Korean Peninsula in the like counted a hundred and thirty three lost vessels. And these numbers are actually on the decline thankfully. Yeah. The maritime industry on the whole has seen the total number of losses decrease UM during five and then the number of incidents or casualties also is on a year over year UM downturn. And according to a another report from Alian's, one of the big questions would be how many ships disappeared without a trace right overall UM from two thousand two thousand and thirteen, there were only seven that were considered what they call missing slash overdue. So you can still be missing for two years and be overdue. Wow, missing for two years. Let's see, it's not a fate I want to experience. And so concludes our show. You know what we haven't done in a little while? Is it at Gona? Our first shoutout gos to Nick says high gang, love your show. In the Effervescent episode three hundred, you mentioned blood donations. I think it was a nine nine Pie podcast or maybe radio lab where I first heard that donated blood is a big business and that hospitals seek out more blood than they need to sell it to other hospitals. It might even have been stuff to blow your mind to, come to think of it. Well, you need to get your podcast straight, Nick, come on. In the process, in the process, lots of plasma gets thrown away. Apparently, here are a couple of links that go that take us down this rabbit hole. So we sent us some great stuff from w PTV. And then there's a nice little reddit today. I learned section here. So we're gonna dive into this, Nick and uh, we'll report back with what we find. Literal blood money about plasma money same ring to it doesn't it's a wave of the future though, right, Plasma money, that's where all the money is. Let's get in early. Our next shout out comes from Nicole. Hi, Guys, what happened to the video podcast in the iTunes store? I haven't received any new updates in quite some time? Are the podcast audio only now? Thanks Nicole? Uh. We mentioned the top of the show, we had some changes in the works in terms of some investment in our company and um, the podcast business. I guess he could say, spinning off from the how stuff works in general. Uh. With that has come kind of an emphasis on the podcasts, and that means a less video and you know, Matt and beyond the iTunes store, Apple Podcast Video Store, we have put a pause on our video production for the stuff they don't want you to know video series, specifically on our YouTube channel, UM and anywhere else that you've been watching our show, maybe on on Amazon, and we're just putting a pause on that. Like Noel said, to focus on this show. Uh, this thing that people who make more money than us and make decisions above us have faith in. So we're gonna keep going with it. But there may be like opportunities online to supplement some of the stuff we do here with some video stuff for SOUF. We'll see but you know, a lot of exciting new stuff coming down the pike, but we're not fully aware of all of it yet. And thanks so much for writing in Nicole. We have one more shout out for today, but it's a it's a bit of a doozy, so get comfortable in your seat or scoot to the edge of it, you know, wherever you prefer to encounter doozy messages. Uh hey, guys, says Laura B. I just listened to your podcast about America's Zone of Death, and I'm actually a former student Professor coult I attached the photo of his class syllabus to prove it. I really appreciate you guys giving him credit for this topic because it's been showing up a lot on social media without him being credited at all. That's a real that's a real pill, I, Laura, I find that personally offensive. Um, that was me, Ben, that wasn't Laura. Laurie continues, You guys should give professor call to Google because he has also written on a wide variety of other super interesting, little discussed topics and I'm sure he'd be more than happy to talk with you guys. Keep up the good work, Laura, thank you so much for writing in Laura. And here's the bonus. Here's the doozy part. Professor Kay did right back to us. He wrote back to us yesterday, I think, and his his email was very, very kind, to the point where I was thinking, Man, I wish you were my professor. He uh, we'll just read some some brief highlights here. Uh what they really liked wash, He said, a few points. I heard and enjoyed your podcast about my Yellowstone theory. I wanted to reach out offer my enthusiastic participation with whatever else you want to do with the subject. And also on the pardon power. As you mentioned. A few points that came to mind as I listened. One you called me doctor cult, but like so many law professors, I'm not a PhD. Also, I pronounced cult like halt or salt, not kilt. Uh. No worries, though I've been called far worse. I think this guy's it creates. It's a humor too. In case you get me feedback on the Yellowstone theory, A very common responses that the state of Idaho would just prosecute you and That's true of most national parks. If the Feds couldn't prosecute you, the state would be able to step in. But in a few of them, like Yellowstone, the FEDS have exclusive jurisdictions, so that's no go. Three, it's worth mentioning that if you tried to use the loophole, you would still be subject to get ensued civil liability and prosecuted for misdemeanors for which you have no right to a jury trial. You also would not be able to use the loophole if you did any part of the crime, like forming your intent or conspiring outside the zone. Oh man, you know what that means. We're already guilty. Our our moonshine operation already went elbows up. Uh. Perhaps most importantly, if you're thinking employing something, there's probably someone else there with the same idea, and he's bigger than you. All of this eliminates much of the loophole's usefulness to would be criminals. I still think the loophole is worth fixing, though, even with all the reasons why it's limited and why it might not work, there really is no good reason not to fix it and just color inside the lines on pardons Number One, you mentioned pardons declaring you guilty. I wrote a short piece and attempt to do disabuse people of that notion. And so he has a piece in the Wall Street Journal that he refers to pardons aren't only for the guilty. And two he said self pardoning was the subject of my first legal article in the chapter of my book in two thousand twelve. If you're ever interested in doing anything on pardons, I'd love to help. And he also recommends uh chapter from a book called Constitutional Cliffhangers, a legal guy for presidents and their enemies. Uh, And it's on the loophole in the twenty second Amendment that could allow a two term president to stay in power. Oh, I want to do both of those. Do you want to both be uh president state of power? Yeah, the that specifically as well as self partnering and partnering in general. I just want to learn more about that, and I think people have to would want to as well. Yeah, let us know if you'd like to learn more about legal loopholes. And we are going to be following up with our new favorite law professor. And for now this concludes our Gosh but not our show. If fear not ladies and gentlemen. We will return next week with something uh strange, either very new or very ancient and eldredge but nonetheless fascinating. In the meantime, if you want to get in touch with us, you can do the social media thing. We are conspiracy stuff on Facebook and Twitter. If you want to do the Instagram thing, we are conspiracy stuff show and Matt, I think there's a there's a there's another way. We always talk about if people don't want to do any of that stuff, what is that It's three candles in a triangle. You have to be in the middle of the Pacific Ocean and there's one this area between Taiwan some volcanic islands anyway on a raft made of cadavers. Yep, that's new raft, that's new foreen. But that's definitely in the in the rules. So if you don't want to do any of that stuff in the cadaver boat just really doesn't you know, strike your fancy, you can just write us an email. We are conspiracy at house stuff works dot com.