From UFOs to psychic power. Since government conspiracies, history is riddled with unexplained events, you can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, and welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They call me Ben. You are you? And that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. This episode is going to be a dive into a mystery that remains controversial in the modern day, literally a dive into one. Yeah. The story we're covering today has been the inspiration for several works of popular fiction. Ian Fleming's nineteen sixty one James Bond novel, which then became the movie Thunderball. Uh, it was inspired by it. And there's a nineteen fifty eight film called The Silent Enemy, which is really great and has nothing to do with fart snol, but it was based directly, well as close as you can get a Hollywood film to be based directly on something occurring. And we know, maybe you've probably read the title for this episode. We know that the name command Er Crab sounds okay, let's just say it. It sounds kind of like it would be the name of a cartoon character. I kept bringing it up to my wife, like, yeah, I gotta do some more Commander crab research, and she's like, what are you saying? It makes me think of Mr Crabs from SpongeBob, like if he had some secret life as a covert um deep cover agent, but I don't think he would do a very good job. He's a little too mouthy. Well, that might be part of his public persona, you know, that might be the thin veneer over a very dangerous cartoon crabs real personality, that tough exoskeleton that comes with being a crab unless your soft shell delicious. Yeah, you know, soft shell crab is not is not bad. I've been I've been doing some experiments with crab recipes for everyone, and it is not for everyone. That is true. H And another thing that was not for everyone. Speaking of segways, is the concept of the Cold War, that is, that is the backdrop, that is the the world in which today's story, today's cover up conspiracy theory takes place. You've heard the phrase cold war before. It describes this global post World War two tension between the clashing ideologies, clashing economies, and clashing cultures of the Eastern Bloc and the Western Bloc. Who's gonna hold sway, Like, who's gonna be the dominant force for all of those things now that we've the dust has cleared away from all the battles. Yeah, who's going to become the hedge them on the power above all other powers. The Eastern Bloc was comprised of the USSR and various Soviet satellite states, so Russia and all of the states that you here entering into really tense NATO conversations in the current day. The Western Bloc was comprised of the US along with NATO allies, and a few other countries sprinkled in. And this conflict, this simmering tension, arguably it existed beforehand, in an earlier incarnation of what was known as The Great Game, which we have a pretty good episode on as well. And this conflict, this Cold War conflict, meant that while these countries were not officially at war since slightly before the end of World War Two. Consider World War two an enemy of my enemy as my friend's situation, right, It's almost like there was a brief quieting of pre exist seeing tensions between the UK and the US and Russia, it's like we don't like each other, but we're gonna hang because we don't like that other guy way way way yeah yeah, yeah, Like, look, we're never going to be friends, but this guy is a real pill. So so, in the absence of all out war of any kind or physical conflicts that are just occurring on a regular basis, what you're dealing with generally are covert operations, operations that are gathering intelligence, just making sure you know what that other team is doing while you're over here doing your thing on your side of the world. Yeah, exactly. During the Cold War, both sides committed heinous and legal acts. There was also a golden age of state secrecy and spycraft. I think I brought this up before, but on a work trip last year, I got to go to the Spy Museum in DC and there's a whole section with little gadgets and stuff in the evolution of these gadgets from this period, and it's stuff like microphones hidden and pens and like, you know, ways of hiding micro dots in um pieces of paper that had like really really tiny messages that have to be put into a magnifying machine to really read. But you could like get pages and pages of information to this tiny little disc of plastic that could be like inserted into in between pages, and all kinds of tape recorders and got Some of that stuff was so clunky too. They had to go in these giant suitcases, and they had remote controls that would like go up their sleeves and they could activate it. I mean now, it's like all the stuff they had back then, we I could do on my iPhone with the map, you know. And the truth of the matter is that even today in tweventeen, a lot of the spies, a lot of the operatives who are on either side of this conflict, when they were caught, they were just left out in the cold. I think that was also the phrase that was used to refer to that. So we will never know how many of these people existed, how many survived to maybe even to the modern day, if they were opera in the eighties, how many just disappeared in the dark ripped out appendix of your history book, Yeah right. And the whole idea is you can't expose the rest of whatever larger operation you're doing. If you've got an operative, it gets caught. And if you'd like to learn more about the Cold War in general. You can check out some of our earlier episodes and videos on the subject, especially the subjects of proxy wars right, which arguably the Middle East is embroiled in today. With that in mind, let's zoom in a little bit. Let's get a bit of a sharper focus to of course, quote taken, spycraft requires a very specific set of skills. Wow, good job, Matt. Yeah, the golden voice. Uh. And some operatives will specialize in certain environments. Right. You might have someone who can physically look like the average member of another country a region, and who can fluently speak those languages, like a business person who just exists incognito somewhere. Right. And this this is crucial because, for instance, if you have two operatives, one of whom speaks fluent Haitian French and looks like they could blend in and Haiti and one of whom speaks fluent Cantonese then and looks like they could hang out in South China, then of course you know roughly where those operatives are probably going to be based. If you, if you're a person with any brain, right, I know we're over something, but yeah, there are some operators who specialize in underwater or maritime or oceanic environments, and one of the names for those people is frogman. You know, that always brings to mind for me. Maybe you guys too. The opening sequence of Johnny Quest where there are these dudes and like skin type you know, green diving suits and they have like those full kind of like masks that go over their eyes and nose and big flippers, and they've got spear guns and Race Bannon kicks one of them in the head. Yeah, I do remember. That's what I always think of when I hear frogman. Wow, I mean, it's not it's not far off of the frogman is. Frogman is an individual trained in what they would call tactical diving, so exactly that you know, you named two very important things. You named diving equipment, and you named weapons. Uh as you might imagine. This is mostly a discipline for military and police forces. Yeah, a lot of times there will be explosives experts that are frogman, because one of the things you do a lot of times in the line of work is sabotaging other ships or even like you know, um places where ships are launched, even probably like ports and the infrastructure that's underwater that you could attach explosives to and cause really horrible structural damage that could really jack things up for the enemy. Yeah, and another thing that's more recent with Frogman. This was really surprising to me. It's spying on underwater network cables, so like huge fiber optic cables and splicing in and getting information out deep underwater, like tapping into them now with a device. That's pretty cool. The spine of the Internet. It's no joke either, because depending on the geography of those cables, Uh, cutting one, and when we say cables, we're not talking about the kind of cable you might have a Time Warner gigantic info pipes essentially, and cutting one could deplete Internet supply in an entire country. It could cut it off. The etymology is a little bit uncertain. If first came as a stage name really the Fearless Frogman from play in the eighteen seventies, and later a guy named John Spence who was an enlisted member of the U. S. Navy said that people called him Frogman because he was training in a green waterproof suit. Dude, that is really cool and he just just see to say, you guys can see just to remind yourself, there's the Johnny Quest frogman there in these green suits and they've got their tanks on and their masks and like the the traditional goggles you see. I just think that is like the quintessential frogman in my ten year old brain. Yeah, and I love that they're walking on land with their flippers on and everything, and their their goggles still attached. Well, they have just emerged, surprised Johnny on the deck of a ship. No, those are their real that's their real face. They're built for frogging. Frog frog person name Johnny Quest. So one of the sorry, one of the one of the other things that Frogman would tend to do, especially during World War two times, along the technology being developed for underwater travel and different kinds of transportation and weapons, there are these things they called chariots. Well chariot was a type of these things, but they're really manned torpedoes. That sounds like a really bad idea, doesn't it doesn't it. It's the kind of idea that the person who doesn't have to actually perform it comes up with. All right, guys, we got this thing. It's great, you're gonna love it. We'll see Okay, so in my head and I didn't do a deep dive into chariots or right, but in my mind it was a way to get these frogmen who you know, who have a limited amount of oxygen. These operatives um to travel a lot faster underwater with you know, without that. Really that's it, just to travel a lot faster underwater something get further distances. But tell me more. I mean, these things were a rig two. Well you see this thing. I think the explosives thing came a little bit later as like, well, why Joe, we we've got these boys going out there, what points to eight knots? Why don't we put a warhead at the end of that thing, you know, with some British some royal admiral was just like, I think we should do it. And then and then the divers were like wait what yeah, because that technology probably existed beforehand, just to accelerate their speed. You know. Uh. The the work, it could be exploratory. But the primary differentiation between your average every day Jane or Joe diver diver person is that being trained, being trained in tactical diving work means that these people will be trained in as you said, matthe use of explosives, UH, the use of surveillance techniques, for instance, stealth diving. We have a lot of former and current members of the military who listened to this show, and we would like to hear for you on this because from what we understand, typically military organizations tend to describe these operators as combat divers or combat swimmers or other similar terms, and the phrase frogman seems to often be used as an informal appellation, you know, so let us let us know. I don't want to stir the pot too much here, I don't want to make too big of a splash here, but I would I would want to know is in your experience, if you have military experience, is the term frogman a just an informal thing? Is it official like in the UK with the with the Royal Frogman or And in addition to that, my second question would be are there any stereotypes because a lot of a lot of different branches of the military have stereotypes about UH specific organization. So do please tell us all of that. Um So, just to jump us back into the Cold War era where we are excellent, excellent, so during this time in Britain, and the United Kingdom. There were a lot of operations that were done in Malta and a lot of these other places where there were smaller conflicts and things, and these these combat divers played a huge role in this. A lot of it was taking out minds that had been placed during the war that they just had to get rid of, or spying on a ship just to make sure, you know, what's going on with this stuff. Is that an actual research vessel or they up to something else. Yeah, the Royal Navy was just all over this stuff at the time, and a lot of not some retired some still active military individuals who were working during World War two ended up finding jobs doing these kind of things. And today a resooming the focus even sharper to the individual. The protagonist of our story Commander Lionel Crab, also known as Buster Crab, Buster Crab, and we'll tell you more after a word from our sponsor. Commander Lionel Crab a k Buster Crab that's Crab with two bees, was born on January nine, o nine. He was a Royal Navy frogman. He was also later on a diver for m I six, that's the British Intelligence Service Think of them like the CIA here in the West, if you're familiar with that. Yeah, they've conducted numerous clandestine operations. It's also fairly obvious this is not related to today's episode that they were aiding and embedding a ring of pedophiles in the United Kingdom. I feel like that needs to be said when they are brought up. Okay, well yep, full stop. So command, yeah, look it up if if you have time and you know you didn't eat recently. Um. So, Commander Crab received what was called the George Medal, that's after King George, for removing Italian minds from the from British warships at Malta. As we said before, So he got a King George Medal. That's a huge deal for his work. Then he also received an o b E or an Officer of the Order of the British Empire, for again clearing minds, this time in Livorno. And that, by the way, is a knighthood. So he got he got knighted. So he's sir Crab. Well yeah, um, and again, if we have any listeners out there that can confirm or deny that, please let us know, because that's what the research looked like to us, and removing moving minds is it's a it's always a good thing, but it's not necessarily a humanitarian thing. This might not have been to protect commercial fishermen, right commercial fishing vessels. This could have been to ensure that other, like friendly military powers were able to traverse these these areas at Malta. Would they do this like manually? Like they would have to hitch it up to some kind of chain that would then raise it up out of these are These are big. Minds are massive. That's a great question. I could not find anything on like physically how they would remove the minds. I'm I was assuming they would blow them up. That that in my head, That's what I was thinking, the way you would a lot of times, the way you would do mindes, the like land mines. There are there are ways to disable a land mine by hand without exploding it, but I don't want to be the person doing that. We should do a show just on existing minds, that the minds of mind fields. Yeah, I would, I would say, without having ever done mind removal in a way that we talk about on air, I would say that there are three ways to disable of mind. Well, the first would be rendering the equipment nonfunctional, so accessing it breaking the wires right h depending on whatever the active mechanism of the mind is at the time. The other one be as Moll said, completely removing it, and then the other would be as Matt said, blowing it up that's out there, yeah or something. And I guess part of that would depend upon how closely the minds were monitored by the people who But yeah, they are crazy looking to their like attached to the sea floor with chains, and then they're you know, at the very top of it look like something out of Hell Raiser. There are these orbs with the spikes and the spikes or what triggered them right like you hit the spice. You know. It always makes me think of that absurdly difficult. Maybe I'm just a dummy PC game Mind Sweeper, Like it's it's remember that game, I remember, But I just like it was the kind of game where like, for the longest time I just kind of clicked it and didn't really know what I was doing. I never really understood how to play it until much later. Um, but that you know, it's not really a fun game exactly. I thought. Mind Sweeper was great. You gotta have the right mouse because in the right mind it's it's key to double it's key to double click. I used to set the difficulty on on the highest you can change the density of minds right or the probable density of minds, and on the largest board. If you said it on the highest, highest density of minds, what will happen is you'll get your first click free. It never lets you die on the first click. And so you click in the middle or wherever you want, and then it will show you that number shows you the number of minds that are in the hidden cells around the one you clicked. One time I got to two clicks on the hardest setting. That was my that was my rate. It was pure accident, pure accident playing it now. All right, all right, Well maybe the three of us, don't you know, maybe the three of us should not specialize in mind removal. Yes, however this guy did it was it was a pretty rare set of skills. There was a specific instance that you looked into matt where the Soviets sent emissaries to Britain. Right by by was it submarine? Was by both? It was by ship there warships and it's pretty interesting. Apparently the this group of Soviets, they were on kind of not a victory tour, but like a propaganda tour of sorts, where they had been to India and a couple other places where they had been. You know, they got off the ship and they were cheered and everybody was like, oh, you guys are so great. You have really beat those Nazis. You guys are awesome. We still really like you guys, and you're doing great things in the world. Um. They then they took they took a trip to Britain and it was Secretary Nikita Khrushchev and the Soviet Prime Premier Nikolai Bulgannon and forgiven my pronunciation there, but they came to Britain in April of nineteen fifty six and they docked with their warships at Portsmouth, and uh that is roughly, oh, I forget to put. Seventy six miles southwest of London is where that port is if you're looking in overall view of the UK. Um. They spent eight full days there in Britain, and their schedule included three days of talks at Downing Street, so talking with the big wigs in Britain, the people, the movers and the shakers and all that. And that's talking opposition party as well as you know, the party that's in power. Um, you know all the a lot of MPs, probably an influential business people. They had a dinner with the Prime Minister at the time, who was Anthony Eden. Twice they did at they visited him at Checkers. And I don't know what that is. This is not the fast food restaurant Checkers, I guess. I honestly, I didn't write down what that was. I just saw it and I was like, Okay, that sounds fun. This episode brought to you by Checkers. But it's spelled the Cold War fast food, Yes, but it's spelled c h E q U e r S, so in course that's how they'd spell it in Britain. Meanwhile, the c I A, the m I six and Naval Intelligence are in the middle of this mission placing divers under the Soviet warships where they're docked at Portsmouth. Yeah, and the whole idea is they that whole concept of we need to know exactly what these guys are doing, where possibly they're going next, what they're doing while they're port while they are docked there, or they reported there, like are they doing any weird stuff with underwater divers checking out our ports? So you know it makes sense from a strategic standpoint, and that's what they were doing. Okay, side note, I just I can't let it ride. Although I thought, or I thought us calling Checkers the fast food is pretty good, you gotta eat that worked really well. Uh. The actual thing is it's short for Checkers Court. That's the country house of the UK Prime Minister. So they went visited at his house like it's like the British Camp David kind of thing. It's a treat, went to check his all right. So let's drill down even further to a specific day, April nineteen, nineteen fifty six. So on this date, Lionel bust a Crab was on a mission to spy on a Soviet warship that was docked in Portsmouth Harbor. I am not going to even attempt to pronounce the name um, but just so you guys are on my side of miss spell for you. It's O R d z H O N I K I d z E. Do with that what you will. Yeah, yeah, thanks for taking one for the team UM and it was roughly seventy six miles southwest of London. Yeah, and he was on a dive in the harbor and by all accounts was monitoring the hull of the ship. After his dive, he was never seen resurfacing and he never made any further contact with his handlers. For all intents and purposes, Commander Crab had vanished. Yeah, so he's got his You know, when you go on a mission like this, you've got handlers, people who are you know, setting up your mission, walking you through it. You've seen twenty four It's kind of like that in a way. Uh, there's somebody who's always on the line, who's setting things up for you and giving you intelligence as you're gathering more intelligence. And there's a tight time frame as well. I think that's very important to you know. So when he failed to comply with that time frame, the British Admiralty stated that he was guild while looking on an experimental mind in Stokes Bay, a few miles away from Port smith Hall. Yeah, they said he was killed in an experimental mind hadn't even been in uh near the ships, yeah, yeah, and then essentially he had killed himself in an accident. But here's the thing. The Soviet Union apparently exposed this as as disinformation when they reported that there was indeed at least one frogman that had been spotted servicing right near their ship when it was when it was doctor reported there. And then the story changes and it was claimed that Commander Crab was indeed examining the Soviet ship or look monitoring the whole, but he was doing it without any official authority. Yeah, so the story is already changing a whole lot through the official sources is about what exactly is going on here. Again, it's that thing of let's not expose our larger operation. Um. But then something kind of crazy happens. Yeah, about six months later, on the south coast of England, someone discovers a body is has it's headless and handless, someone's decapitated, cut off the hands at the wrist, and the officials say, well, here here the remains of Commander Crab. And we talked a little bit about technology at the time. Like Matt mentioned the idea of manning torpedoes, the technology of the time forensically meant that with neither head nor hands available, it was almost impossible to get a solid identification on the body, the dental records, no fingerprints, none of that stuff. And already the the way that a body will change if submerged in water, uh for a long time. Is that's something that we could we could make a guess at, right, and maybe even the type of water or maybe even the type of journey the body took, but that's still not solid identification. No, And there were no identifying marks that the examiners could find, nothing unique at least any kind of scars, tattoos, anything like that. And crabs former diving partner, a fellow named Sydney Knowles, identified the body. He's the one who said that's Buster. Yep. So so what happened? What happened to Commander Crab? Well, we've got a little better idea now that it's been years and years and years since the occurrence, since we've got you know, some some reports from the intelligence offices that we're carrying out the mission in which Commander Crab met his demise um. But honestly, there are a lot of question and will answer some and pose quite a few more after a word from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. Okay, So jump way way away for from nineteen fifty six to the year two thousand and six the future. Yes, uh, the BBC, the British Broadcasting Corporation, obtained via a freedom of information application a little different from here in the United States, but the same thing in theory. Um. It was a formerly secret document and it was an official report of Commander crabs final mission. So what the Intelligent groups had to say about it? Essentially, the report showed that UH CRABS intelligence handlers didn't follow a lot of the standard procedures that you would when going on a mission of this sort, specifically about protecting secrecy of what's going on, where people are, what they're doing, like the actual names of your operatives, which is that's that's a big detail. But I want to I want a caveat that, because following standard procedures could mean almost anything. Oh yeah, and that is my phrase there. So standard procedures is not what was used in in the article. That was creative there, but it's they didn't follow protocols essentially that are set forth for how you how you would maintain secrecy, which, if we were to speculate, would be stuff along the lines of creating a plausible alibi for the actual operatives if if they ever came into question, right, we need some some sort of dummied up proof that you know, Crab was not in Portsmouth, he was in North Sandwich on Rye. And this is just mother guy who hasn't assumed name, who was there at the time, who may even have identification on him that shows he's a different person. So the idea there is that through some error, whether bureaucratic or whether whether it was a minor bureaucratic error, or whether it was a complete um poop show from the beginning, it started off on a bad note. They checked into a hotel, he and his handlers with their actual names, that was right there by the port. Like, how crazy is that swinging a miss right move. I know, it just seems like it was set up to fail from the start. It's kind of like in not to make light of what I believe. It's clearly a tragic death, but it's kind of like in James Bond films. One of the biggest plot holes in James Bond films is that guy is always using his real name. He says constantly, way more often than you would even you would say the name of like someone you loved, you know, And it does seem like a lot of other characters in those movies do use code names. Maybe it's just to show his raw bravado that it's like, I don't need to use code names because I got this ish on Lockdown. I'm I'm good also, and I don't want to get us too far off track. Another James Bond point. I read a pretty fascinating study where someone had went through the films and the books and said, just how much is this guy drinking? And his liver would have been shot and srotic if he's drinking like that every day, and he would probably be falling down drunk by you know, late afternoon. Yeah, at least spy better. I've had from so more like Blitz James Blitz, Yeah, exactly, so uh so. Yeah, it was it was clear then that now that we have that specific there, they had woefully, woefully misjudge the sequence of events, right, yes, exactly. And then well here here's the other thing. When it was clear that he had gone missing, Um, you know, we're not sure where he is, but he's definitely not on the mission anymore, and he hasn't resurfaced his team chose not to carry out a full search because, as we said before, they were they were afraid of alerting the crew of the cruiser that they were looking at, um, of letting them know that, hey, we're doing this. Because those guys Nikita Krushchev, they're they're on a diplomatic mission. There's not supposed to be any spine going on right here. This is supposed to be a uh here, shake my hand, welcome to my country. Let's discuss things. You know. Krushev is, by the way, the so the official who was famously alleged to have pounded his shoe and uh international meetings and told the US that he was going to crush them, alleged that probably didn't happen. There. There's let's just a jump on that bench. There is an article you can find, oh man, what is it called. It's like the the disaster dinner or the fiasco Dinner. I forget exactly how they phrased it, but it's all about a specific meeting with I believe the labor party that took place during this trip, and how upset and angry Khruschev was at certain things, and the threats that he made it's it's fascinating fiasco dinner. I think fiasco dinner. So as soon as they found out in real time, not counting the not counting the deceptive and completely false, deceitful pr stories, before they even started half cooking those up or half baking those, they said, we're not going to carry out a search. He's that guy's gone. Yeah, we don't know who he was. He's gone. The Prime Minister himself, Anthony Eaton, had no idea not only that the mission failed, but had no idea that there was a mission for more than a little more than two weeks after. You think he'd be pretty grumpy finding that out, wouldn't. Yeah, But I think that idea is protecting him because he's actually in the room with all these guys you know, and you don't you don't want any kind of tell on his part if he knows. Is it plausible deniability? I mean, we see that happening in the US all the time, with the practice of compartmentalized intelligence. You know, I believe multiple presidents have been shut down for during their during their honeymoon phase with the American electorate. They say, we're going to find out what really happened to JFK and we're going to find out what really what what's really going on with all these allegations of UFOs and stuff. And then you just see like the yeah, you get into that dark room. And when the actual unelected government officials that are instead appointed right or promoted into these positions are often the ones who will control access to that intelligence. And I think, um, I think you guys raised a great point where where the Prime Minister probably probably doesn't know, but I'm just so skeptical about that stuff when they say that they really don't know. I know it can occur and they might not know about a specific mission. Right, surely there was a program, right, and it it had to come up and at least a budget meeting where someone's like, hey, we're getting a lot of swimming equipment. You guys get in a pool. What's going on anyway? Reason number seventy four, why I'm not Prime minister. So what happened with the diving partner? Well, yes, if you remember that, fellow Mr Sidney Knowles, he the next year after this, two thousand and six, the whole thing. In two thousand seven, he did an interview with the BBC s show called Inside Out, and he stated that he had only identified the body of Commander Crab because he was quote under pressure to do so. And he suggested that that Buster may have been murdered on orders by British intelligence, like it was an inside job to get rid of Crab, which is insane in its implications, right, maybe he knew something that he wasn't supposed to, or he was going to do something that somebody didn't like. Well in in Inside Out he goes Sydney goes into it a little further, and we've got an excerpt that we're going to read from that, So I'm just gonna paraphrase this a little bit. Um. So Sydney said that Crab was varied bitter, and that he was also mixing with a pro Soviet group of people who dragged Sydney along to parties. Um, they were attended by the likes of double agents like Anthony Blunt. And here's here's a pretty tasty quote. He said, it's either suicide or bloody Russia. Yeah, and that's what Crab told Sydney, like if I'm either going to commit suicide or I'm gonna go to Russia, like I'm gonna I'm gonna defect effect. Yeah, So Sydney really believed that at this point Crab was going to defect. So Sydney alerted the intelligence services and my five and he refused to dive with Crab on this second Russian ship mission, the one that he was on on April nineteen UM, which you know that was the whole Portsmouth one We've been talking about this whole time. But previously he had gone on a secret mission with Crab, let's see, to the Russian warship severed Love on its visit to Portsmouth, So he had been there before with Crab and none of before, but he had decided it was a bad idea to go on this one. And he believes that although he wasn't there, Buster Crab did not dive alone. Uh Specifically, Sydney Knowls said Buster told him they had given him a new buddy diver, and then Crab never returned, leading Sydney to believe Crab was murdered. We buried the lead slightly when we mentioned one person here, Anthony Blunt, as one of the pro Soviet people that Sydney Knowles believes took Crab to these parties, right, Sir Anthony Blunt was is for a long time an art historian, a professor and a writer. And it wasn't until nineteen sixty four, when he was offered immunity for prosecution that he confessed to having been a Soviet spy for a long time, from the somewhere in the nineteen thirties to the nineteen fifties, he was a member of a group called the Cambridge Five. So this was an influential, a tremendously influential member of UK society, one of the type of people who would probably be immune from the kind of scrutiny or questioning that the Hoi polloi, the peasants and the pros would encounter. And just you know, Sydney, the reason why he said, crab is feeling all of this, It's a reason that a lot of us listening right now might feel, um a bit bitter because he could not find a job after retiring from his official military services. He just couldn't get work anywhere, even though he put all this put in all this time, and you know, doing so many heroic things and been given awards, but he just couldn't find a job. I mean so many folks you know, in our country that get out of the service liking it to almost like the same treatment as people getting out of prison. You you're kind of ostracized a bit, and U are treated almost like a societal barrial. Almost. It's just a total shame and disrespectful. Yeah, incredibly so, especially when we consider the lack of support. And when you say support, we're not talking just financial support. Economic support is important, but so is cultural support, assimilation support, mental health support, and well for anyone listening outside of the country. In the US, currently, we have an organization called the Veterans Administration whose job it is to help returning military members acclimate to society and have a civilian life. And in many this is not a political jab. It doesn't matter what side of the false psychotomy people are find themselves on. In many cases, it isn't arguable that the Veterans Administration has done a really terrible job organizationally. Maybe a show for a different day. The other thing about this, So we said two thousand six that fo I report comes out, not the whole story. Still, Nope, it's not the whole story. He gave the interview in two thousand seven, then what happened next. In the same year, in two thousand seven, retired Russian diver named Edward Koltsov claimed that he had murdered Crab on that famous dive in April by slicing his throat because he caught the frogman planting a mine underwater. This was in a documentary on topic. He also produced a dagger that he claimed he used in the murder. The implications of this are tremendously disturbing because if Crab was on a mission planting a mine on a diplomatic ship, it's a warship, yeah, in a diplomatic mission on a vessel like that function is diplomatic vessel, then it's a clear active war and could be considered a war crime. The way that this would have changed the course of history had this occurred. And what's disturbing about that is we still can't reliably if that is true. We can't reliably suss out the motive. Why would an intelligence agency that UM, as evidenced by their continuing detection of just reprehensible criminals like these people are good at keeping secrets, Why would they do this rushed job with this obvious active provocation. This you know they're they're big questions that this Koltsov story brings up. Surviving relatives of Crab do not believe Koltsov's story one bit. They think it's another attempt by the UK to cover up the truth. And they believe that what happened was either Crab willingly defected or that he was abducted and then brainwashed. And we know just that, like we've seen or heard of or read the Manchurian candidate, and we we talked about allegations of this stuff with things like Sir Hand, Sir Han, r f K's assassin. The big question here is whether or not this kind of brainwashing even works. But the unfortunate it and absolutely insane truth of it is both the US and Russia tried it numerous ways. They were like, let's give him truth serum, what about l s D, what about sleep deprivation. Let's see if we can take cult indoctrination tactics and apply it to people to make them do things they would not normally do. That is a lot to swallows out their theory of what happened to the guy. Is it possible, though, Is it possible that he defected? Is it possible that he was killed by his own handlers. Is it possible that the that Russian forces killed him, and that the two great powers involved in this decided to prevent the dominoes that would fall if this, if this stuff came out. I've got one for you. What if he was setting up a false flag for the Soviets to like as like acting as a Soviet agent to set up a mind that would explode while it's in the harbor and make it look like it was m I six and other intelligence services, uh, permitting an active war interesting end to spark all at war, to heat the Cold War up. I'm not I'm not saying anything about it being true. It was just something I was ruminating on last night. But that's very interesting. I hadn't thought of that angle. It's a surprising one, but it's not. It might be outside the realm of plausibility, but it's not outside the realm of possibility. And then it also brings us to a really important point A lot of times, especially now, this how does this apply to right? How does it split our modern age? A lot of what we see public figures, whether they are elected officials, whether they are dictators, whether they are ministers in something. Anybody in the geopolitical arena is on some level performing two different, three different types of shows. If we think of it as being performative. There's one show performed for the domestic population, the voters, the average citizens, the oppressed, whomever, and that is typically going to be nationalistic. It's typically going to be something about our enemies to keep people motivated by fear right. And then the same people have what they say on the international sphere, and sometimes those messages might seem contradictory to the domestic population, so they're not really broadcast the stuff that whichever country you live in, the stuff that your leader is saying when it's not being recorded two groups of other leaders is probably not the same stuff. And with a few notable exceptions, it's probably not the same stuff they're telling you when they want you to vote for them or they want you to not complain about internet censorship or the oppression of minorities. And then the third one, this is so weird. I didn't learn about this for a long time, But the third one is let's say that Matt you are the leader of country A, and Noll you're the leader of country B. The populations of country and Country B have historically hated one another. Right. And what happens then is that when your first round of theater, you, the leader of country A, you the leader of Country B, will tell your local populations you know, uh, forget Country A. They're the worst. They smell, they're threatening us, they're taking all the resources. All those people in Country B. They use way too many batteries. I don't know if you guys noticed. You guys noticed it. Yeah, and let's say. Let's say also that one of you just recently got elected and eliminated, so you're you're espousing all this. The word you'll often here used as provocative language right domestically making public statements internationally that kind of say the same thing, but tilted in a way to get other people, other countries on your side. You want countries see through Z to like Country A or be better. Uh. But when the two of you meet on private phone calls or in person, you become a lot more like people trying to negotiate a car sale or people trying to negotiate a transaction, which means you'll say stuff like, well, you know, I know that we have our differences the previous leader. You know, I I didn't like him that much either. Frankly, I'm someone you can work with, and so here's what I need. And it becomes sort of a quid pro que situation where in the two people that publicly claim to hate each other on behalf of millions of other people get in a room together and one of them says, well, you know, I'm i'm I'm looking for a better gas line, and the other one says, well, you can't get the gas line until I can get some of these sanctions dropped. And then you know what, I think, I think we can work on that. And the next thing you know, they've shake hands. They have these content they have very differing tones and there, and they're one on one interactions where they're actually doing stuff, and then the performative interactions where they're just sort of garnering support. The recent fairly recent Iran deal comes to mind just when thinking about something like that and getting something very complicated out of two countries that make those kinds of statements, and then it just becomes more complicated when there are multiple country treas involved. I know that's a little bit of ramp, but I think it is important for us to clearly establish that what what you're seeing if you if you look into these sorts of events or any events that geopolitical implications is you're seeing different snatches of three very different conversations and you have to kind of triangulate the truth in between them. Now, some some world leaders, it is true, have always had the same the same message and all three conversations, and other world leaders aren't particularly into that. You know, they're they're they're getting that one on one situation and they're like, wait, what you meant all that crazy stuff you were saying. It's a weird world in which we live. And that's one of the reasons that we still don't know what happened to Command or crap. But we do know that the danger, the threat of these ghost combat divers of frogmen, it still exists. It's very much real right now. And the they could be used in the modern day to scout defenses for future missions. They could take and leave equipment in places that will be used later. Um, they can place microphones and you can determine all kinds of things underwater. If you have really good mikes, you can you can figure out what ships are doing, where they're going, how much fuel they're using. You can even listen to the noises of crew, like if you're listening to submarines, which is crazy to think about. The fiber optic um biblical lines we mentioned before, this huge fiber optic wires um. They can be tapped. Navy piers can also use wireless connection systems and those signals can can be used to be uh or I guess these divers can intercept those signals if they wanted to from the water. The only thing with that, though, you've got to break all kinds of crazy encryption from the military. But you know, if you're also a military force, you can probably do it. And to a degree this is well, to an extreme degree, this is changing with the use of modern technology. You will hear a lot of pundits and experts tell you that the new and most important sphere of warfare and therefore spycraft is information collection, right, and spycraft to a degree has always been about information collection overwhelmingly. This doesn't mean that the old wet work stuff, the old physically putting a person in the room has stopped existing. You know, for instance, with stuck s Net, the program used most likely by the US and Israel to disrupt Iran's nuclear enrichment activities, that that virus had to physically be put into that system because there no country is going to well. Iran at least is not going to be foolish enough to have online access to nuclear nuclear enrichment facilities. So no matter how how far technology evolves at this point, until we have superhuman android operatives that can until we have robots that can pass for human, we're still going to have physical people traveling into a place. And this means that as we record today, nobody knows how many people are how many missions similar to this are actively happening. It ports all over the world, and just in the middle of the sea somewhere being you know, these guys being deployed to go check out a ship in the south trying to see the Frogman cometh. The frog Man cometh Google Diego Garcia some time. So that's an interesting rabbit hole. And with that, for now we conclude the story of Commander Crab. We will update it if we learn whether any of these any of these conclusions have become the inarguable truth. But this does not end our show. We want we want to hear from you. Do you think these operations are relatively rare in the modern day? And by these operations we mean stuff that occurs with absolute deniability, stuff that the president of a country or the prime minister of a country doesn't know about. Are they rare? Are they more common? Are they less common? We want to hear from you, and that reminds us it's time for corner. Our first shout out comes from the captain. He says, Hi, guys, I'm a big fan. A friend of mine recently introduced your podcast to me. I was listening to your Ghoulan Movement episode, which was great. I had no idea there was anything like that potentially involved with the failed que. You were asking about the definition of a social movement, and I have a definition for you from my college class on social movement rhetoric, perfect convenient. A social movement must meet the following criteria. It must be an organized collectivity. It must be an uninstitutionalized collectivity. And I just you know off Air who we had to look up collectivity was I was. I was thinking collective, but a collectivity as individuals who are considered as a whole group. Uh. An example would be a gathering of all the people in a town moving on. It must also be large enough and propose or oppose some kind of change. Just to delve in a little bit for clarity, an organized collectivity is fairly straight forward. A movement needs some kind of organization to make things happen. Think social movement organizations like Black Lives Matter or the Tea Party. As for uninstitutionalized, a social movement, at least when it starts, is generally made up of outsiders and thus cannot be made up of corporations or government. To be large enough, a social movement simply needs to reach the size it needs to affect the change it proposes or opposes. Finally, propose or opposed change is fairly obvious on its face. There may be a few different definitions, and I am pulling from my class notes, so I cannot give you any But yeah, that's how you define that, was captain. Yeah, Well, well we we in the captain made it happen. That's right. It's really cool to uh, you know, think about it that much and send us that much detail, so we really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you so much. Thanks thanks for writing to us, Captain who's next. Well, next we have Mr B. And Mr B is not a listener. Well, very well could be. But who knows. I think you know, I don't know. Um, he had a very interesting Monday this past October two. Oh I know about this guy. Okay, Yes, this is an article that was sent to us by our frenemy, our best freendemy, our complaint department. Yeah, Jonathan Strickland. Uh and I'm just going to read part of this article. It's from K to Radio. Here we go. A Casper man claiming to be from the future has been arrested for having too much to drink in the present stone cold awesome headline leading line. Casper police officers say at around ten thirty pm on Monday October two, they were dispatched to residents on East Second Street for a man who was stating he was from the future and he was there to help people. They found Mr B, who claimed that he was from the year and he was trying to warn the people of Casper that aliens were coming next year and they should leave as soon as possible, the people, not the aliens. He added that he wanted to speak to the president of the town. Oh boy, I always wanted to be president. Yeah, it's way less commitment than being president of the country. Mr B told the police that the only way he was able to time travel was to have aliens fill his body with alcohol and have him stand on a giant pad which transported him to seventeen, but he ended up in the wrong year. It was supposed to be eighteen. I think we can end it there. They they determined that Mr B could not take care of himself and he was causing a disturbance, so yeah, they took him in. He had he had an early breath sample showing a blood alcohol content of point one three six. So yeah, he was definitely filled with alcohol and trying to time travel. But hey, who's the same. Mr B wasn't a time traveler. Come on, maybe that's how aliens operate, right, who's to say? And we hope he is well, we hope his mission goes well. Yeah, you know, maybe he is prophetic. We'll see what happens since eighteen. And of course we want to thank Jonathan Strickland for right in to us. Jonathan Strickland is available for any questions, comments, or concerns about our show twenty four hours a day, seven days a week at Jonathan Strickland to how Stuff Works dot com. And this concludes, but not our show. We will be returning next week with with some stuff I think you're gonna find interesting and maybe a few special announcements. So say tuned. In the meantime, you can find all three of us all over the internet. Were like Twitter, Instagram, Facebook's maybe we'll start a Pinterest page. No no at this stage if you want to, can you believe Mad is so anti Pinterest? I was on an episode of Comedy Bay many other day and there was like a guest on it that was making up all kinds of Internet based maladies, and one of them was Pinterest worms nice. That sounds perfect. That's why probably Matt doesn't like Pinterest because it makes him think of worms. See and if you want to find us on those we're conspiracy stuff at most of them were conspiracy stuff show at Instagram. If you want to skip all the social media stuff and you just want to send us a message or you have a comment or a question, you can always write to us. We are conspiracy at how stuff Works dot com.