From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeartRadio.

From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeartRadio.

Hello, welcome back to the show.

Hello, welcome back to the show.

My name is Matt, my name is Noah.

My name is Matt, my name is Noah.

They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Dylan, let's get a quick record. Scratch nice maybe, hall elujah cool. Okay, that's the last sound que we'll ask for. This is part two of a two part series on something called the Third Man Syndrome or the Third Man Factor. If you have not listened to part one, please please please pause this. We'll still be friends, we promise, and check out part one because guys, we went to some weird places.

They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer, Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Dylan, let's get a quick record. Scratch nice maybe, hall elujah cool. Okay, that's the last sound que we'll ask for. This is part two of a two part series on something called the Third Man Syndrome or the Third Man Factor. If you have not listened to part one, please please please pause this. We'll still be friends, we promise, and check out part one because guys, we went to some weird places.

Boy did we ever?

Boy did we ever?

Oh yeah?

Oh yeah?

And guys, in the in between these two episodes, I've mentioned just off air that I was reading that book The Nameless, and I didn't realize that a big part of that book is about the Enochian language that we covered in Do Angels have a Language?

And guys, in the in between these two episodes, I've mentioned just off air that I was reading that book The Nameless, and I didn't realize that a big part of that book is about the Enochian language that we covered in Do Angels have a Language?

That's the one.

That's the one.

Yeah, it reminded me of this episode.

Yeah, it reminded me of this episode.

Yeah, Nameless is a wholesome, rollicking read fun for the entire FAU.

Yeah, Nameless is a wholesome, rollicking read fun for the entire FAU.

Don't do it. Do not Christmas, gift this to your child.

Don't do it. Do not Christmas, gift this to your child.

The first to forget Judy Bloom. This is what your kid needs to be read.

The first to forget Judy Bloom. This is what your kid needs to be read.

Oh my god, are you there, malk Yeah, it's uh.

Oh my god, are you there, malk Yeah, it's uh.

It's written by one of our favorite graphic novel authors, Grim Morrison. That Ben, you got me into with the Invisibles when I was just a wee kid, so thank you for that.

It's written by one of our favorite graphic novel authors, Grim Morrison. That Ben, you got me into with the Invisibles when I was just a wee kid, so thank you for that.

But it really is dark, like be careful.

But it really is dark, like be careful.

Oh and also check out clean Room. No, I'm bullish on it. Anyway. This is part two. So we can say logically then that the mind, reacting to adverse environmental conditions conjures its own ghost as a defense mechanism. This means the explanation could be as simple as your neurons misfiring in your brain. They're playing their snaptic air hockey wrong or another I like that image, another biochemical reaction.

Oh and also check out clean Room. No, I'm bullish on it. Anyway. This is part two. So we can say logically then that the mind, reacting to adverse environmental conditions conjures its own ghost as a defense mechanism. This means the explanation could be as simple as your neurons misfiring in your brain. They're playing their snaptic air hockey wrong or another I like that image, another biochemical reaction.

Yeah, but then the question becomes are they misfiring or are they firing exactly as intended to get the desired effect? You know what I mean?

Yeah, but then the question becomes are they misfiring or are they firing exactly as intended to get the desired effect? You know what I mean?

So many things that we look at as like a malfunction. When you dig a little deeper, it starts to feel quite functional.

So many things that we look at as like a malfunction. When you dig a little deeper, it starts to feel quite functional.

Like sickle celademia and malaria.

Like sickle celademia and malaria.

Yeah, I mean, I think I get what you're saying, man Like, it's something that maybe there was a time where certain circumstances led to those being positive mutations, but then when those conditions are changed and the thing remains, it no longer is Is that right?

Yeah, I mean, I think I get what you're saying, man Like, it's something that maybe there was a time where certain circumstances led to those being positive mutations, but then when those conditions are changed and the thing remains, it no longer is Is that right?

That's possible? Yeah, this is It's definitely clearly not an everyday thing for the vast majority of human beings. But each human being is kind of snowflake or fingerprint level unique. Right, You've got the same factory equipment, but that factory equipment is continually modified by cultural, environmental, and internal decision points to quote Bush.

That's possible? Yeah, this is It's definitely clearly not an everyday thing for the vast majority of human beings. But each human being is kind of snowflake or fingerprint level unique. Right, You've got the same factory equipment, but that factory equipment is continually modified by cultural, environmental, and internal decision points to quote Bush.

So it sounds like we're getting towards some of the stuff we've talked about with the complexity of the evolution of this old noggin, the thing we got inside this skull of ours.

So it sounds like we're getting towards some of the stuff we've talked about with the complexity of the evolution of this old noggin, the thing we got inside this skull of ours.

Yeah, the bi camera, mind, let's introduce that, because look, all we're saying about environmental factors and physical privation, it does not explain like that explains how people can hallucinate. But it does not explain a common factor of third man syndrome, which is the presence seems to actually help to trigger or inspire action. History is riddled with people who have hallucinated, and let's be brutally honest, believing you can fly, really believing you can fly has not once, not, never resulted in a person actually flying. Dang, so far, so right, So we believe in you don't jump? So what's the difference between third man factor and these other cases a skewed perspective. This is where we got to go to our pal, Joe McCormick of stuff to blow your mind. If you like our show, you will love theirs. In an earlier episode, years and years ago, now we teamed up with Joe to explore this idea of the bi cameral mind. What is it for a quick recap?

Yeah, the bi camera, mind, let's introduce that, because look, all we're saying about environmental factors and physical privation, it does not explain like that explains how people can hallucinate. But it does not explain a common factor of third man syndrome, which is the presence seems to actually help to trigger or inspire action. History is riddled with people who have hallucinated, and let's be brutally honest, believing you can fly, really believing you can fly has not once, not, never resulted in a person actually flying. Dang, so far, so right, So we believe in you don't jump? So what's the difference between third man factor and these other cases a skewed perspective. This is where we got to go to our pal, Joe McCormick of stuff to blow your mind. If you like our show, you will love theirs. In an earlier episode, years and years ago, now we teamed up with Joe to explore this idea of the bi cameral mind. What is it for a quick recap?

Yeah so yeah, wonderful episode, Definitely worth checking out again. It is this idea of bicameral mentality that is a hypothesis created by a psychology just Julian James, who argues that for a large portion of human history, up to the time of the ancient Greeks, humans didn't consider their emotions and desires to be something that came from within, rather that.

Yeah so yeah, wonderful episode, Definitely worth checking out again. It is this idea of bicameral mentality that is a hypothesis created by a psychology just Julian James, who argues that for a large portion of human history, up to the time of the ancient Greeks, humans didn't consider their emotions and desires to be something that came from within, rather that.

Came from external sources.

Came from external sources.

It was almost like we are a television receiver being broadcast into you know, from outside of ourselves.

It was almost like we are a television receiver being broadcast into you know, from outside of ourselves.

There is no inner monologue thought occurs to you.

There is no inner monologue thought occurs to you.

Instead of thinking about thinking metacognition, you are have, in fact, had something beaming this information into your skull.

Instead of thinking about thinking metacognition, you are have, in fact, had something beaming this information into your skull.

What I know, So instead of thinking, I'm hungry, I would like you know, I'd like a Philly cheeseteak. I'm hungry, I'd like a Casadia. The bi cameral mind theory argues that up until the time of the ancient Greeks, people would think they heard a voice from outside, be that God or a demon, saying you're hungry, you want a case adia. And this is way before the invention of the case adia.

What I know, So instead of thinking, I'm hungry, I would like you know, I'd like a Philly cheeseteak. I'm hungry, I'd like a Casadia. The bi cameral mind theory argues that up until the time of the ancient Greeks, people would think they heard a voice from outside, be that God or a demon, saying you're hungry, you want a case adia. And this is way before the invention of the case adia.

If you're looking for this episode, guys, I don't know if we ever put it out as a classic, but the original was back in twenty seventeen. I couldn't find it in our meta as a classic, but it came out in twenty seventeen.

If you're looking for this episode, guys, I don't know if we ever put it out as a classic, but the original was back in twenty seventeen. I couldn't find it in our meta as a classic, but it came out in twenty seventeen.

If you're looking for it.

If you're looking for it.

We're big fans of this one. The theory posits that the human mind once operated in a divided state. Cognitive functions were split, and one part of your brain appeared to be speaking. A second part of the brain that was your quote unquote you're you that you think of when you think of yourself. That part was listening and obeying, and so our buddy, Julian James says. The erosion, the breakdown of this divide is what created the thing we call human consciousness today. Gotta be careful, not every This theory is not universally accepted, as a fair share of critics, but god, how fascinating.

We're big fans of this one. The theory posits that the human mind once operated in a divided state. Cognitive functions were split, and one part of your brain appeared to be speaking. A second part of the brain that was your quote unquote you're you that you think of when you think of yourself. That part was listening and obeying, and so our buddy, Julian James says. The erosion, the breakdown of this divide is what created the thing we call human consciousness today. Gotta be careful, not every This theory is not universally accepted, as a fair share of critics, but god, how fascinating.

It makes sense the brain thinking about thinking, because it's not the same part thinking, right, it's one part of your brain thinking about the other part of your brain having ideas.

It makes sense the brain thinking about thinking, because it's not the same part thinking, right, it's one part of your brain thinking about the other part of your brain having ideas.

Weird, right, right? What does the air conditioner know about the tires?

Weird, right, right? What does the air conditioner know about the tires?

One hundred percent?

One hundred percent?

But this is somewhat now, I wouldn't say controversial, but this theory is not something that's universally accepted.

But this is somewhat now, I wouldn't say controversial, but this theory is not something that's universally accepted.

Yeah, I mean, if this mental state did or does indeed exist, could it be possible we're just spitballing here, folks. Could it be possible that extreme stress could trigger a temporary return to this cognitive pattern? Could your brain go into a kind of retreat mode, regressing back to bicameralism as a survival mechanism.

Yeah, I mean, if this mental state did or does indeed exist, could it be possible we're just spitballing here, folks. Could it be possible that extreme stress could trigger a temporary return to this cognitive pattern? Could your brain go into a kind of retreat mode, regressing back to bicameralism as a survival mechanism.

I mean, I think it's a definite possibility and it would be super helpful in those moments if that's what was happening.

I mean, I think it's a definite possibility and it would be super helpful in those moments if that's what was happening.

Yeah, and I'm also thinking too, before we continue, just the various spin offs of this, what if you have third man syndrome. This is a good comedy sketch for us, and the third man never goes away and just ask you to do increasingly weird and cartoonish stuff and reminds you of the time that they saved your life in Antarctica.

Yeah, and I'm also thinking too, before we continue, just the various spin offs of this, what if you have third man syndrome. This is a good comedy sketch for us, and the third man never goes away and just ask you to do increasingly weird and cartoonish stuff and reminds you of the time that they saved your life in Antarctica.

That's hilarious. That's hilarious.

That's hilarious. That's hilarious.

Oh you know what it makes me think of the I mean we've kind of already mentioned this, but the fight or flight thing, where that is your brain reverting back to old school. Just take action right now. This is what we're gonna do.

Oh you know what it makes me think of the I mean we've kind of already mentioned this, but the fight or flight thing, where that is your brain reverting back to old school. Just take action right now. This is what we're gonna do.

Take it.

Take it.

Do it now, don't think, just go at right now. Yeah, either fight that thing or get the heck out of here right now. We're not gonna contemplate it. We're not gonna even think about what it looks like or you know, any of the details. We're just gonna put our feet to the ground and go.

Do it now, don't think, just go at right now. Yeah, either fight that thing or get the heck out of here right now. We're not gonna contemplate it. We're not gonna even think about what it looks like or you know, any of the details. We're just gonna put our feet to the ground and go.

Yeah, and we do have some good news for people who, like us, are fascinated with the bi camera mind theory. Research into this concept is continuing. Neuroimaging appears to a potentially support the idea that auditory hallucinations may arise from the right temporal paradial lobe and the be transmitted to the left temporal paradial lobe. All that to say, if you look at someone's brain in the correct circumstances, then it does appear that some kind of interaction or communication is happening in a way that would not normally occur to most human beings. Also, third man, you might not always see the presence, but you often hear a voice.

Yeah, and we do have some good news for people who, like us, are fascinated with the bi camera mind theory. Research into this concept is continuing. Neuroimaging appears to a potentially support the idea that auditory hallucinations may arise from the right temporal paradial lobe and the be transmitted to the left temporal paradial lobe. All that to say, if you look at someone's brain in the correct circumstances, then it does appear that some kind of interaction or communication is happening in a way that would not normally occur to most human beings. Also, third man, you might not always see the presence, but you often hear a voice.

Yeah, that was such a fascinating thing. We covered that topic. I remember. I think we learned that in some people who are experiencing schizophrenia, they're actually moving their jaw in like these micro movements of vocalization. Yeah, causing the person to physically hear the thoughts that were being formed that they were unaware of because they were being potentially formed in the right parietal as you're talking about, Well, then transfer to the left as they hear the sounds that they're making.

Yeah, that was such a fascinating thing. We covered that topic. I remember. I think we learned that in some people who are experiencing schizophrenia, they're actually moving their jaw in like these micro movements of vocalization. Yeah, causing the person to physically hear the thoughts that were being formed that they were unaware of because they were being potentially formed in the right parietal as you're talking about, Well, then transfer to the left as they hear the sounds that they're making.

So weird that's wild, man, it's wild. The human brain is still very much an unknown country as the literary boffins, which is.

So weird that's wild, man, it's wild. The human brain is still very much an unknown country as the literary boffins, which is.

So much stuff is happening under the surface. I mean, just the idea of like this inner life that we may or may not even be tuned into half of the time, not to mention like those involuntary muscle movements and like you said, the jaw movements and things that are kind of indicators of all of this stuff bubbling just under the surface.

So much stuff is happening under the surface. I mean, just the idea of like this inner life that we may or may not even be tuned into half of the time, not to mention like those involuntary muscle movements and like you said, the jaw movements and things that are kind of indicators of all of this stuff bubbling just under the surface.

It kind of really makes your head spend when you think about it.

It kind of really makes your head spend when you think about it.

Well, you could go so deep into some of this stuff that we're talking about here, because it could, you know, if you break it way out and allow yourself to at least contemplate some of the more metaphysical things. Sure, even though we're narrowing down into some of the scientific parts, we still don't understand the mechanisms right of why it happens, which is why we have the religion thing, as you said, Ben, to bring it in to explain the why. But like something could be taking possession in some way of just that one part of your physical body, your brain, to then send those ideas to you.

Well, you could go so deep into some of this stuff that we're talking about here, because it could, you know, if you break it way out and allow yourself to at least contemplate some of the more metaphysical things. Sure, even though we're narrowing down into some of the scientific parts, we still don't understand the mechanisms right of why it happens, which is why we have the religion thing, as you said, Ben, to bring it in to explain the why. But like something could be taking possession in some way of just that one part of your physical body, your brain, to then send those ideas to you.

You're a vessel of a higher power.

You're a vessel of a higher power.

Yeah, and I mean, what a perfect tool and all of the receivers you know that we are equipped with as human beings. I mean, it just blows my mind, just the specialization and the ability for our human forms and the equipment that we've got on board. I guess, for lack of a better way of describing it, that links up so perfectly with these concepts that we're talking about.

Yeah, and I mean, what a perfect tool and all of the receivers you know that we are equipped with as human beings. I mean, it just blows my mind, just the specialization and the ability for our human forms and the equipment that we've got on board. I guess, for lack of a better way of describing it, that links up so perfectly with these concepts that we're talking about.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

I know it's sort of like I'm stating the obvious, but I do occasionally just get overwhelmed by it.

I know it's sort of like I'm stating the obvious, but I do occasionally just get overwhelmed by it.

It's an overwhelming thing I like to you know, I love to think in metaphor. Similarly, it's a great way to learn. One example could be looking at this as the human brains version of the local TV station taking over the broadcast for an emergency warning. You know what I mean. You think that you can change the channel, but if things get rough, they're taken over.

It's an overwhelming thing I like to you know, I love to think in metaphor. Similarly, it's a great way to learn. One example could be looking at this as the human brains version of the local TV station taking over the broadcast for an emergency warning. You know what I mean. You think that you can change the channel, but if things get rough, they're taken over.

Can we talk about the God helmet, guys, Yes, all right, this is the most metal thing of all time.

Can we talk about the God helmet, guys, Yes, all right, this is the most metal thing of all time.

I just love it, just the name of the concept alone.

I just love it, just the name of the concept alone.

Ah, Yes, the god helmet. I love that you describe it as metal. Sometimes also called the Koran helmet ko R E. N This thing is like, it looks kind of silly if you pull up the picture. It's created by a guide named Stanley Koran and a neuroscientist named Michael Persinger, and they wanted to say they wanted to find out what happens to a person's subjective experience, what you feel you're encountering if you stimulate the temporal lobes. How does this make them feel about thoroughly human things like creativity and religious experience. This is straight up a snowmobile helmet, all right. Name makes it sound like a crazy warhammer forty k kind of thing or a magic the Gathering card. But god, helmet is a snowmobile helmet with some brain monitoring toys strapped across it.

Ah, Yes, the god helmet. I love that you describe it as metal. Sometimes also called the Koran helmet ko R E. N This thing is like, it looks kind of silly if you pull up the picture. It's created by a guide named Stanley Koran and a neuroscientist named Michael Persinger, and they wanted to say they wanted to find out what happens to a person's subjective experience, what you feel you're encountering if you stimulate the temporal lobes. How does this make them feel about thoroughly human things like creativity and religious experience. This is straight up a snowmobile helmet, all right. Name makes it sound like a crazy warhammer forty k kind of thing or a magic the Gathering card. But god, helmet is a snowmobile helmet with some brain monitoring toys strapped across it.

I think you've seen it in Ghostbusters. Probably.

I think you've seen it in Ghostbusters. Probably.

It's definitely very It's that cliche kind of like science helmet. It's that kind of DIY in your science garage, custom built mind reading helmet.

It's definitely very It's that cliche kind of like science helmet. It's that kind of DIY in your science garage, custom built mind reading helmet.

Yeah, but it doesn't just protect you from you know, going over the handlebars. This thing's got magnetic fields that it produces.

Yeah, but it doesn't just protect you from you know, going over the handlebars. This thing's got magnetic fields that it produces.

Like TCDs or TMS transcranial magnetic stimulation, transcranial direct current. This is a method of subjecting parts of the brain to weak magnetic force. We know it sounds bonkers because you might be saying, hey, guys, is the idea that we're using science to trigger an experience with the divine or the sensation of such. Yes, yeah, so stick with us here. We know how it sounds. We wanted to go to some great writing by our colleague Molly Edmunds, who penned an article about this for our alma matter, How Stuff Works. She has a great description of this that is going to take us to some very interesting places.

Like TCDs or TMS transcranial magnetic stimulation, transcranial direct current. This is a method of subjecting parts of the brain to weak magnetic force. We know it sounds bonkers because you might be saying, hey, guys, is the idea that we're using science to trigger an experience with the divine or the sensation of such. Yes, yeah, so stick with us here. We know how it sounds. We wanted to go to some great writing by our colleague Molly Edmunds, who penned an article about this for our alma matter, How Stuff Works. She has a great description of this that is going to take us to some very interesting places.

Shout out to Molly.

Shout out to Molly.

Indeed, Molly says the god helmet includes electrodes that Persinger used to alter the electromagnetic field at the temporal lobes. Persinger claims that he can create a religious experience for anyone by disrupting the brain with regular electric pulses. This will cause the left temporal lobe to explain the activity in the right of the brain as a sensed presence.

Indeed, Molly says the god helmet includes electrodes that Persinger used to alter the electromagnetic field at the temporal lobes. Persinger claims that he can create a religious experience for anyone by disrupting the brain with regular electric pulses. This will cause the left temporal lobe to explain the activity in the right of the brain as a sensed presence.

Yeah, so what side of your brain says, hey, man, what the heck? And the other side of your brain says, oh, yeah, dude, there's someone here whoa And that's what your other that's the original half your brank go WHOA, No way we get to cultural priming, because the sensed presence could be anything from God to demon, maybe a lost loved one. And what they found that's so fascinating is it depended upon the expectations of the person downing the helmet if they were not told the patience or participants in the experiment were not told what the experiment involved. About eighty percent of people wearing the God helmet reported sensing an unseen presence, and this shows us crucial information. First, most amazingly, the god helmet does work, just not for everyone and not all the time. And I don't know about you, guys, but I first really learned about the God helmet thanks to the famously kind and not curmudgeonly Richard Dawkins. Oh.

Yeah, so what side of your brain says, hey, man, what the heck? And the other side of your brain says, oh, yeah, dude, there's someone here whoa And that's what your other that's the original half your brank go WHOA, No way we get to cultural priming, because the sensed presence could be anything from God to demon, maybe a lost loved one. And what they found that's so fascinating is it depended upon the expectations of the person downing the helmet if they were not told the patience or participants in the experiment were not told what the experiment involved. About eighty percent of people wearing the God helmet reported sensing an unseen presence, and this shows us crucial information. First, most amazingly, the god helmet does work, just not for everyone and not all the time. And I don't know about you, guys, but I first really learned about the God helmet thanks to the famously kind and not curmudgeonly Richard Dawkins. Oh.

I really liked that guy for a long time my life. It's another I don't like him now.

I really liked that guy for a long time my life. It's another I don't like him now.

It's just I've I don't know, well, I lived on his word for a little while there.

It's just I've I don't know, well, I lived on his word for a little while there.

But did he have a cancelation moment kind of though?

But did he have a cancelation moment kind of though?

Guys, I don't know, I don't know.

Guys, I don't know, I don't know.

I just yeah, he went he goes hard on on the paint when it comes to shooting down anything that could be even, you know, slightly just veering on the edge about there.

I just yeah, he went he goes hard on on the paint when it comes to shooting down anything that could be even, you know, slightly just veering on the edge about there.

He's tried to cancel religion, and he would agree with agree with us saying that, Yeah, I know.

He's tried to cancel religion, and he would agree with agree with us saying that, Yeah, I know.

He had the Humanist of the Year award stripped from him for making some anti trans comments.

He had the Humanist of the Year award stripped from him for making some anti trans comments.

Oh wow, Okay.

Oh wow, Okay.

That's weird for a skeptic.

That's weird for a skeptic.

Yeah, I agree, okay, very very Anyway, that's back in twenty twenty one.

Yeah, I agree, okay, very very Anyway, that's back in twenty twenty one.

Okay, Well, he also did not get the god helmet vibe. He put it on again. Famously, we could call him huge critic of religion. Some folks have called him a militant atheist. He tries on the god helmet and he says, look, I felt a little bit dizzy. I had some twitchy legs for a minute. And this led Persenger to believe that some people may, for one reason or another, be inherently more inclined to have these experiences, maybe due to genetic factors, maybe cultural factors. And let's remember the god helmet was invented pretty recently in the grand scheme of things. So how do we explain other people having encounters, epiphanies, experiences with what they saw as the divine? Well, it must mean that you don't always have to have the technology to do this. Your pre existing beliefs and expectations. They have a huge influence on how folks would explain the God helmet to themselves. You already believe in God right or gods or angels, your brain is going to instantly conclude that's what you're encountering.

Okay, Well, he also did not get the god helmet vibe. He put it on again. Famously, we could call him huge critic of religion. Some folks have called him a militant atheist. He tries on the god helmet and he says, look, I felt a little bit dizzy. I had some twitchy legs for a minute. And this led Persenger to believe that some people may, for one reason or another, be inherently more inclined to have these experiences, maybe due to genetic factors, maybe cultural factors. And let's remember the god helmet was invented pretty recently in the grand scheme of things. So how do we explain other people having encounters, epiphanies, experiences with what they saw as the divine? Well, it must mean that you don't always have to have the technology to do this. Your pre existing beliefs and expectations. They have a huge influence on how folks would explain the God helmet to themselves. You already believe in God right or gods or angels, your brain is going to instantly conclude that's what you're encountering.

Yeah, dude, totally.

Yeah, dude, totally.

Will pause for a moment for a word from our sponsors, and we'll be right back, and we've returned.

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Guys, it took me to a place to contemplate fasting and this concept of depriving yourself of food for a long enough time to get closer in some way to the spiritual side, right to God, in some way to show your devotion and what if it is or was at least originally a physical way to make your mind, dude get closer there.

Guys, it took me to a place to contemplate fasting and this concept of depriving yourself of food for a long enough time to get closer in some way to the spiritual side, right to God, in some way to show your devotion and what if it is or was at least originally a physical way to make your mind, dude get closer there.

Well, it's sort of like self flagellation, right, Like, you know, if you whip yourself enough, then your fight or flight you triggers will will kick in that you were actually causing and perhaps cause you to experience that third man syndrome, Like is the third man God?

Well, it's sort of like self flagellation, right, Like, you know, if you whip yourself enough, then your fight or flight you triggers will will kick in that you were actually causing and perhaps cause you to experience that third man syndrome, Like is the third man God?

You know? I don't know.

You know? I don't know.

It's very explained as such.

It's very explained as such.

Yeah, and also I found an article I just love the headline.

Yeah, and also I found an article I just love the headline.

It was in the UK's Guardian Bad Science column and it says, bring me a God helmet and bring it now, by Ben Goldacre.

It was in the UK's Guardian Bad Science column and it says, bring me a God helmet and bring it now, by Ben Goldacre.

And then he just described it really beautifully.

And then he just described it really beautifully.

It says the temporal lobes have long been implicated in religious experiences. Epileptic seizures in that part of the brain, for example, can produce mystical experiences and visions. Persinger's helmet stimulates those temporal lobes with weak electromagnetic fields through the skull, and in various published papers, this stimulation has been shown to induce a sensed presence under blinded conditions.

It says the temporal lobes have long been implicated in religious experiences. Epileptic seizures in that part of the brain, for example, can produce mystical experiences and visions. Persinger's helmet stimulates those temporal lobes with weak electromagnetic fields through the skull, and in various published papers, this stimulation has been shown to induce a sensed presence under blinded conditions.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I would also add to this pre God helmet to that point, meditation, which is still practiced. Meditation can create that sense of psychological isolation, diving into your inner world to see if there's something that reaches out to you. So it isnmpletely possible, even weirdly enough, Maynard came from tool Energy. Yes, yes, Keenan, Yes, Old Maynard recommends the the similar thing. You know, you could also perhaps use drugs or hallucinogens to induce this stuff. He said, Yeah, that's fine, tried it a couple times, but then figure out the natural way to get there on your road.

I would also add to this pre God helmet to that point, meditation, which is still practiced. Meditation can create that sense of psychological isolation, diving into your inner world to see if there's something that reaches out to you. So it isnmpletely possible, even weirdly enough, Maynard came from tool Energy. Yes, yes, Keenan, Yes, Old Maynard recommends the the similar thing. You know, you could also perhaps use drugs or hallucinogens to induce this stuff. He said, Yeah, that's fine, tried it a couple times, but then figure out the natural way to get there on your road.

I think it's Capsayson guys.

I think it's Capsayson guys.

Spicy spicy boys.

Spicy spicy boys.

Yes, No, but really like you guys have probably had that experience where like, if I eat something so spicy, it is this moment of all it's almost clarity because you're you cease thinking about anything else. I wonder if it is the same thing or close to the same thing.

Yes, No, but really like you guys have probably had that experience where like, if I eat something so spicy, it is this moment of all it's almost clarity because you're you cease thinking about anything else. I wonder if it is the same thing or close to the same thing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

A buddy of mine recently turned me on to a study. I'll see if I can find.

A buddy of mine recently turned me on to a study. I'll see if I can find.

It for later.

It for later.

But where there are these like Janused monks I believe, or these specific sect of monks that will do this intense form of meditation where they stare at a candleplane for like days on end, and the study has shown that it genuinely produces an experience almost.

But where there are these like Janused monks I believe, or these specific sect of monks that will do this intense form of meditation where they stare at a candleplane for like days on end, and the study has shown that it genuinely produces an experience almost.

Identical to that of being on DMT.

Identical to that of being on DMT.

Sure, yeah, meditation, focused meditation can do this the mind. The thoughts that you choose to experience over time can have physiological impact upon your brain. Shout out the knowledge, Shout out Buddhist meditation.

Sure, yeah, meditation, focused meditation can do this the mind. The thoughts that you choose to experience over time can have physiological impact upon your brain. Shout out the knowledge, Shout out Buddhist meditation.

Shout out the infinite social scroll that is doing the opposite of what we're talking about.

Shout out the infinite social scroll that is doing the opposite of what we're talking about.

Really, yeah, depends on how I curate it right. Another example about priming, Let's say you are pining for a long lost loved one. They have been on your mind for some time now. Obviously bad faith actors purporting to be mediums have they made bank off this since time immemorial. But you may if you're wearing a god helmet, because you're primed to think of that person, and you may feel the presence you have interacted with or encountered is that person from beyond the grave. And if you're more secular, you haven't been primed at all. Then you get to a hilarious gotta catch twenty two situation. One side of your brain is going bonkers saying, man, man, there's something there, there's something there. The other side says, oh, what is it? What is it? And the first size of your brain says the fuck, I don't know, And then you take off the helmet.

Really, yeah, depends on how I curate it right. Another example about priming, Let's say you are pining for a long lost loved one. They have been on your mind for some time now. Obviously bad faith actors purporting to be mediums have they made bank off this since time immemorial. But you may if you're wearing a god helmet, because you're primed to think of that person, and you may feel the presence you have interacted with or encountered is that person from beyond the grave. And if you're more secular, you haven't been primed at all. Then you get to a hilarious gotta catch twenty two situation. One side of your brain is going bonkers saying, man, man, there's something there, there's something there. The other side says, oh, what is it? What is it? And the first size of your brain says the fuck, I don't know, And then you take off the helmet.

Yeah, well, you know, I just had a conversation about this with somebody. We do have the genetic code of our ancestors in our code, or at least bits and pieces of it, right segments of it. So there's another whole thing. If you get in, you know, you dig deeper into that then potentially there is not there is some kind of interaction that you could be having not only would the neural connections and the memories you have of that person, but with the actual code that.

Yeah, well, you know, I just had a conversation about this with somebody. We do have the genetic code of our ancestors in our code, or at least bits and pieces of it, right segments of it. So there's another whole thing. If you get in, you know, you dig deeper into that then potentially there is not there is some kind of interaction that you could be having not only would the neural connections and the memories you have of that person, but with the actual code that.

Is a part of you.

Is a part of you.

It's very Graham Hancock. Yeah, I've read those books that the idea that Graham Handcock takes a little bit further and argues that what is often described as quote unquote junk DNA is actually memory encoded. It reminds me of our earlier Strange News segment where we're talking earlier listener mail segment. We're talking about the possibility of genetic memory and thank you Anonymous for sending us a really cool picture of your dog. Just going to leave that withe there. But okay, so we've got these things. We all saw the email. That's a champion dog right there, top tier. We've got these things trauma and survival. So we know the factors influencing the experience. We know that the experience can be purposely or something like it can be purposely created through technology the god helmet. We also know there's a really fascinating argument that once upon a time the human brain was more divided whether that be to culture, whether that's be to psychology, something environmental that we can't explain. But I'm thinking if we take all these if we treat them like puzzle pieces, maybe we can use them to build a better picture of this thing we call the Third Man mystery. The neuroscience really is one of the key players here, right, Like, neurosciences pretty legit.

It's very Graham Hancock. Yeah, I've read those books that the idea that Graham Handcock takes a little bit further and argues that what is often described as quote unquote junk DNA is actually memory encoded. It reminds me of our earlier Strange News segment where we're talking earlier listener mail segment. We're talking about the possibility of genetic memory and thank you Anonymous for sending us a really cool picture of your dog. Just going to leave that withe there. But okay, so we've got these things. We all saw the email. That's a champion dog right there, top tier. We've got these things trauma and survival. So we know the factors influencing the experience. We know that the experience can be purposely or something like it can be purposely created through technology the god helmet. We also know there's a really fascinating argument that once upon a time the human brain was more divided whether that be to culture, whether that's be to psychology, something environmental that we can't explain. But I'm thinking if we take all these if we treat them like puzzle pieces, maybe we can use them to build a better picture of this thing we call the Third Man mystery. The neuroscience really is one of the key players here, right, Like, neurosciences pretty legit.

Yeah, absolutely, I mean it's definitely a thing. You can get a degree in it. We know several people that have those we do.

Yeah, absolutely, I mean it's definitely a thing. You can get a degree in it. We know several people that have those we do.

Yeah, you're right. I guess maybe that's a little bit of a softball for me to go. Now, No, you guys, this neuroscience thing bullshit.

Yeah, you're right. I guess maybe that's a little bit of a softball for me to go. Now, No, you guys, this neuroscience thing bullshit.

No, so it does.

No, so it does.

It does show us that, like you were saying earlier, No, there are plenty studies on the activity of the brain, and they show increased activity in areas associated with social cognition and self awareness. Right, Like I am in a school of fish? Which fish am I? How do I relate to the other fish? During what are called simulated isolation experiments, you put someone alone, you put them in the hole. You see what happens their brain. It looks like your brain starts to work over time to fill the void by the left in the absence of real social interaction. So in short, if we do not have friends our brains, if your human may start working to make them.

It does show us that, like you were saying earlier, No, there are plenty studies on the activity of the brain, and they show increased activity in areas associated with social cognition and self awareness. Right, Like I am in a school of fish? Which fish am I? How do I relate to the other fish? During what are called simulated isolation experiments, you put someone alone, you put them in the hole. You see what happens their brain. It looks like your brain starts to work over time to fill the void by the left in the absence of real social interaction. So in short, if we do not have friends our brains, if your human may start working to make them.

Man, that's so weird because I think back to Shackleton and how there were three human beings there that's experiencing the same thing, and.

Man, that's so weird because I think back to Shackleton and how there were three human beings there that's experiencing the same thing, and.

So does that.

So does that.

But then we also know about like collective hallucinations. Does that explain that if people usually experience those under duress.

But then we also know about like collective hallucinations. Does that explain that if people usually experience those under duress.

Like FOLLI you do? Yeah, Yeah, that's that's another piece of the puzzle that's difficult for us to grapple with. So the God Helmet shows us proves that certain subtle magnetic stimulations can create the feeling of an unseen presence. We also know from our earlier episode on the science of ghosts, which was dope, honestly, we know that certain infrasound frequencies can create the experience of sensing a ghost.

Like FOLLI you do? Yeah, Yeah, that's that's another piece of the puzzle that's difficult for us to grapple with. So the God Helmet shows us proves that certain subtle magnetic stimulations can create the feeling of an unseen presence. We also know from our earlier episode on the science of ghosts, which was dope, honestly, we know that certain infrasound frequencies can create the experience of sensing a ghost.

Yeah for sure, ooh and shout out to I don't know if we should talk about it real quick, guys. We've got a pretty cool live event coming up in the new year where we're going to.

Yeah for sure, ooh and shout out to I don't know if we should talk about it real quick, guys. We've got a pretty cool live event coming up in the new year where we're going to.

Talk about a lot of that kind of stuff.

Talk about a lot of that kind of stuff.

Infrasound, how sound can affect our physicality and our mental state.

Infrasound, how sound can affect our physicality and our mental state.

Yeah, it's gonna be a blast.

Yeah, it's gonna be a blast.

If you've got your calendars for twenty twenty five out, go ahead and write down these dates. February nineteenth through the twenty first.

If you've got your calendars for twenty twenty five out, go ahead and write down these dates. February nineteenth through the twenty first.

In Brooklyn, New York at the Wife Hotel.

In Brooklyn, New York at the Wife Hotel.

That's the on air fest at the legendary National Sawdust Venue. We can't wait for you to be there. We'll have more information emerging as we get closer. No word yet on whether or not we'll have a god helmet, but really, the god helmet's the friends we made along the way.

That's the on air fest at the legendary National Sawdust Venue. We can't wait for you to be there. We'll have more information emerging as we get closer. No word yet on whether or not we'll have a god helmet, but really, the god helmet's the friends we made along the way.

We're gonna turn that entire venue into a god helmet.

We're gonna turn that entire venue into a god helmet.

You guys, they're going to be God tier, that's for sure.

You guys, they're going to be God tier, that's for sure.

Ed.

Ed.

Speaking of god helmet, we noted again as we're building out our puzzle pieces here, the god helmet may not be necessary to trigger these experiences. Other factors or mixtures of factors could produce a similar result, as we talked about in depth a few minutes ago. But the god helmet itself, again, it doesn't appear to conjure entities that tell you to do a specific set of actions, telling you to do something, helping you do something that is the primary defining factor. Of third man syndrome, and I posit the bicameral mind might help us solve for that part.

Speaking of god helmet, we noted again as we're building out our puzzle pieces here, the god helmet may not be necessary to trigger these experiences. Other factors or mixtures of factors could produce a similar result, as we talked about in depth a few minutes ago. But the god helmet itself, again, it doesn't appear to conjure entities that tell you to do a specific set of actions, telling you to do something, helping you do something that is the primary defining factor. Of third man syndrome, and I posit the bicameral mind might help us solve for that part.

Yeah, I think, dude, I think there's also something to this figure. I mean, this doesn't go into explaining at you guys, but a figure that is there that is just pushing forward.

Yeah, I think, dude, I think there's also something to this figure. I mean, this doesn't go into explaining at you guys, but a figure that is there that is just pushing forward.

Right.

Right.

So, just to go back to that Shackleton experience, You've got three guys who are you know, on their last legs, doing everything they can to move one foot forward, and you've got this third party, fourth party I guess that is just trudging through the snow and just isn't stopping.

So, just to go back to that Shackleton experience, You've got three guys who are you know, on their last legs, doing everything they can to move one foot forward, and you've got this third party, fourth party I guess that is just trudging through the snow and just isn't stopping.

And laughing all the way.

And laughing all the way.

But just say that that thing that you are both visualizing, hearing, sensing, all that stuff that just continues.

But just say that that thing that you are both visualizing, hearing, sensing, all that stuff that just continues.

Yeah, it's similar perhaps to the stories of what's sometimes called hysterical strength. So you can actually, if you're a human being, you can actually lift and move way more stuff than you feel like you can ordinarily your body just has hard mental constraints to stop you from hurting yourself. Yeah, and so in times of emergency, like the common trope that you always hear is a mother the back of a card, a savor kid and maybe gives themselves injuries in the process because they're able to bypass that stuff. So if the by camera mind is telling us that people can experience a form of disassociation due to a number of factors, then we're looking at neurological, environmental, cultural, psychological. Something adds into this stew and creates the certitude that an internal thought is coming from an external source. In those cases, in the bi camera mind theory, those voices from the ether do tell people to do certain things, to take certain actions.

Yeah, it's similar perhaps to the stories of what's sometimes called hysterical strength. So you can actually, if you're a human being, you can actually lift and move way more stuff than you feel like you can ordinarily your body just has hard mental constraints to stop you from hurting yourself. Yeah, and so in times of emergency, like the common trope that you always hear is a mother the back of a card, a savor kid and maybe gives themselves injuries in the process because they're able to bypass that stuff. So if the by camera mind is telling us that people can experience a form of disassociation due to a number of factors, then we're looking at neurological, environmental, cultural, psychological. Something adds into this stew and creates the certitude that an internal thought is coming from an external source. In those cases, in the bi camera mind theory, those voices from the ether do tell people to do certain things, to take certain actions.

All right, let's take a quick pause, hear a word from our sponsor, and then we'll jump right back into this conversation on the third man theory.

All right, let's take a quick pause, hear a word from our sponsor, and then we'll jump right back into this conversation on the third man theory.

And we've returned, let's learn more about the third man syndrome.

And we've returned, let's learn more about the third man syndrome.

To me, though, sometimes even when we drill down into the science of some of these metaphysical kind of experiences.

To me, though, sometimes even when we drill down into the science of some of these metaphysical kind of experiences.

It doesn't like cheapen it not to me at all, if anything.

It doesn't like cheapen it not to me at all, if anything.

I mean, I think they do coexist the way you so beautifully put it earlier.

I mean, I think they do coexist the way you so beautifully put it earlier.

Science and spirituality, Well good news.

Science and spirituality, Well good news.

I think it's the world we live in fair enough.

I think it's the world we live in fair enough.

Yeah, Well, it's weird because you know, if there is a force out there that is so much grander and greater than us. I can't imagine a version of it where it cares what you call it, you know, or care, it really cares how you worship it.

Yeah, Well, it's weird because you know, if there is a force out there that is so much grander and greater than us. I can't imagine a version of it where it cares what you call it, you know, or care, it really cares how you worship it.

Wouldn't that be the weirdest thing to get hung up on? Can you imagine people murder each other over it? Yeah? They murder each other. Here I'm talking about what the metaphysical death sentence of going to damnation? On a technicality? Yeah, well, buddy, but that's funny.

Wouldn't that be the weirdest thing to get hung up on? Can you imagine people murder each other over it? Yeah? They murder each other. Here I'm talking about what the metaphysical death sentence of going to damnation? On a technicality? Yeah, well, buddy, but that's funny.

So many religions are based on it's a technicality. If you don't believe in this exact way, Saint Peter's sending you home.

So many religions are based on it's a technicality. If you don't believe in this exact way, Saint Peter's sending you home.

The wrong animal once. Okay, yeah you did get baptized, buddy, but whoo whoa, whoa, woah. Let me stop you at the gate. Did you get sprinkles or did you get dumped?

The wrong animal once. Okay, yeah you did get baptized, buddy, but whoo whoa, whoa, woah. Let me stop you at the gate. Did you get sprinkles or did you get dumped?

Dude?

Dude?

As you get closer to the center, the smiling man doesn't care what you call him. He's just waiting for you in the black bar. That's a shout out to Gideon falls really.

As you get closer to the center, the smiling man doesn't care what you call him. He's just waiting for you in the black bar. That's a shout out to Gideon falls really.

Good, really and Ben to your point, your your your baptismal materials were not approved, you know, for use.

Good, really and Ben to your point, your your your baptismal materials were not approved, you know, for use.

Let me see the tip of your penis.

Let me see the tip of your penis.

Yes, please say it like that.

Yes, please say it like that.

You're like, Wow, Heaven is way more intense than I thought.

You're like, Wow, Heaven is way more intense than I thought.

You were that close, Sorry, Matt.

You were that close, Sorry, Matt.

Matt is clearly indicating the foreskins distance away from the divine a foreskin to hell. Uh, the new tell all memoir of the afterlife by your bowels and stuff. They don't want you to know. I mean, yeah, we can't cast we never do, and I think we're all this is very important to all of us. I'm extremely proud of us on the show for never casting aspersion on spiritual beliefs. There is a surprisingly fascinating collection of science that's ongoing that might explain what's happening with third man syndrome. And because cultural perspective and cultural framework is such a big part of what may be going on here, that means it's the opposite of dismissing spirituality. It means spirituality must be acknowledged as a piece of the explanation. I mean, you're dude, think about it. You're on death's door. It's a worse day or days of your life, and you, the you that you think of as you yourself that you has given up done so, and then your brain and a last ditch effort to keep the whole show going conjures up another version, a better version of you. Temporarily, it says you're not alone, can't give up. Now hold my hand, walk a little further over the next time, ill, I will take you somewhere safe.

Matt is clearly indicating the foreskins distance away from the divine a foreskin to hell. Uh, the new tell all memoir of the afterlife by your bowels and stuff. They don't want you to know. I mean, yeah, we can't cast we never do, and I think we're all this is very important to all of us. I'm extremely proud of us on the show for never casting aspersion on spiritual beliefs. There is a surprisingly fascinating collection of science that's ongoing that might explain what's happening with third man syndrome. And because cultural perspective and cultural framework is such a big part of what may be going on here, that means it's the opposite of dismissing spirituality. It means spirituality must be acknowledged as a piece of the explanation. I mean, you're dude, think about it. You're on death's door. It's a worse day or days of your life, and you, the you that you think of as you yourself that you has given up done so, and then your brain and a last ditch effort to keep the whole show going conjures up another version, a better version of you. Temporarily, it says you're not alone, can't give up. Now hold my hand, walk a little further over the next time, ill, I will take you somewhere safe.

You know.

You know.

Yeah, And that version of you might be a loved one that passed away, right because just because that's how your brain ends up visualizing it, and it knows that you will be motivated by that specific person.

Yeah, And that version of you might be a loved one that passed away, right because just because that's how your brain ends up visualizing it, and it knows that you will be motivated by that specific person.

Well.

Well.

And so often we talk about the idea of experiencing ghosts too, or like you know, what's apparitions out in the world. Oftentimes we link those experiences back to memory. You know, the idea of being haunted quote unquote or visited by a loved one is really just a different way of experiencing your love and your memories of that person manifesting in a way that can help you.

And so often we talk about the idea of experiencing ghosts too, or like you know, what's apparitions out in the world. Oftentimes we link those experiences back to memory. You know, the idea of being haunted quote unquote or visited by a loved one is really just a different way of experiencing your love and your memories of that person manifesting in a way that can help you.

M hmm, yeah, one hundred percent. I mean it's a positive conspiracy. It's a positive weaponization of very complex mechanisms. I mean, science seems to imply that the third Man factor is an internal conspiracy on the part of your brain, but not to hurt you, just to try to help you. And again we have to say this has not been proven because spoiler, folks, it is cartoonishly difficult to study this in a lab because you can't, you know, right now, you can't legally strap a brain monitoring device on someone and just slap them on the keyster and push them out into the Arctic until they starve. You can't do that just to see what happens.

M hmm, yeah, one hundred percent. I mean it's a positive conspiracy. It's a positive weaponization of very complex mechanisms. I mean, science seems to imply that the third Man factor is an internal conspiracy on the part of your brain, but not to hurt you, just to try to help you. And again we have to say this has not been proven because spoiler, folks, it is cartoonishly difficult to study this in a lab because you can't, you know, right now, you can't legally strap a brain monitoring device on someone and just slap them on the keyster and push them out into the Arctic until they starve. You can't do that just to see what happens.

We're getting there with VR though soon enough.

We're getting there with VR though soon enough.

Hey, that's actually that's a really good point, man.

Hey, that's actually that's a really good point, man.

Yeah, shut out Unit seven thirty one.

Yeah, shut out Unit seven thirty one.

Sorry.

Sorry.

Also, their science was bad, Yeah, but act they were doing crap like that.

Also, their science was bad, Yeah, but act they were doing crap like that.

They were. They're part of the reason we have such strict ethical guidelines now.

They were. They're part of the reason we have such strict ethical guidelines now.

I mean.

I mean.

Also, what's that movie with Keith for Sutherland. I used to love it where the those med students start taking themselves to near death experiences Flat flights. Yeah, you guys remember flat Lighters?

Also, what's that movie with Keith for Sutherland. I used to love it where the those med students start taking themselves to near death experiences Flat flights. Yeah, you guys remember flat Lighters?

Yeah? Not great but interesting and of its time.

Yeah? Not great but interesting and of its time.

No, I love that concept.

No, I love that concept.

Really, smart inquisitive people are like, you know what, let's just kill each other a little bit and see what happens.

Really, smart inquisitive people are like, you know what, let's just kill each other a little bit and see what happens.

Who's got the right blanket for this? That was a big plot point, right, Flat Lighters. Jacob's Ladder was another one kind of in that vat.

Who's got the right blanket for this? That was a big plot point, right, Flat Lighters. Jacob's Ladder was another one kind of in that vat.

That's a good one. Jacob's Ladder.

That's a good one. Jacob's Ladder.

Yeah, you know, it's funny you mentioned that Ben the earlier. When we were talking about this, the quote occurred to me. What is it If you're dying and you're hanging on, you'll see devils tearing your life away, But if you make peace, then the devil has become angels, freeing you from the earth.

Yeah, you know, it's funny you mentioned that Ben the earlier. When we were talking about this, the quote occurred to me. What is it If you're dying and you're hanging on, you'll see devils tearing your life away, But if you make peace, then the devil has become angels, freeing you from the earth.

Oh that's cool. Is that from Jacob's Ladder?

Oh that's cool. Is that from Jacob's Ladder?

Yes, sir, it is.

Yes, sir, it is.

Oh that's beautiful. Yeah, flat lighters, I will defend. I mean, it's obviously no vibes, but it does show this idea of you know, one of the I mean, it's a horror movie. We won't to spoil it too much, but one of the big debates they have for a while is whether they are encountering external forces because they've pierced the mortal veil or the mortal pale, or whether they are doing something to their brains through near death experiences that make them perceive an internal thing is an external thing. And that's that's where we have to say, don't try to give yourself an NDE. Now, even if you have a lab don't do it. It's super tricky. And you only have to mess up once.

Oh that's beautiful. Yeah, flat lighters, I will defend. I mean, it's obviously no vibes, but it does show this idea of you know, one of the I mean, it's a horror movie. We won't to spoil it too much, but one of the big debates they have for a while is whether they are encountering external forces because they've pierced the mortal veil or the mortal pale, or whether they are doing something to their brains through near death experiences that make them perceive an internal thing is an external thing. And that's that's where we have to say, don't try to give yourself an NDE. Now, even if you have a lab don't do it. It's super tricky. And you only have to mess up once.

Oh for sure, guys, you mind if I get one more example just of this that found was really sweet and maybe I don't know, it actually made me feel good. It's another example that came from our buddy John Geiger there from his the third Man factor, and this was a person named Stephanie. Stephanie Schwab. I want to say, who went into one of those underwater cave systems, you know, the ones where people take their scuba equipment and go deep into caverns that are labyrinthine and the only way you know where you are inside that thing is through a guideline that is connected to you and attached to you, so you can then follow that line back out of the system, because there's no way in the darkness of that cave with your little lights you'd be able to find your way out.

Oh for sure, guys, you mind if I get one more example just of this that found was really sweet and maybe I don't know, it actually made me feel good. It's another example that came from our buddy John Geiger there from his the third Man factor, and this was a person named Stephanie. Stephanie Schwab. I want to say, who went into one of those underwater cave systems, you know, the ones where people take their scuba equipment and go deep into caverns that are labyrinthine and the only way you know where you are inside that thing is through a guideline that is connected to you and attached to you, so you can then follow that line back out of the system, because there's no way in the darkness of that cave with your little lights you'd be able to find your way out.

Well.

Well.

In this specific instance in nineteen ninety seven, Stephanie lost her guideline while she's deep in this cave system, and she began running out of oxygen and panicking. And for her at least, what she experienced was that her a presence was with her that she ascribed to her recently dead husband, who helped her calm down, find the guideline at the very you know you're talking about time running out, find the guideline, and pull herself out. I just think that's amazing that she had that in her and had that experience, which is really beautiful if you think about it, But just that maybe all of us haven't in us the potential to either save ourselves through all these mechanisms we've described, or to actually get some kind of outside help from someone who's been in our lives. I just think it's I don't know.

In this specific instance in nineteen ninety seven, Stephanie lost her guideline while she's deep in this cave system, and she began running out of oxygen and panicking. And for her at least, what she experienced was that her a presence was with her that she ascribed to her recently dead husband, who helped her calm down, find the guideline at the very you know you're talking about time running out, find the guideline, and pull herself out. I just think that's amazing that she had that in her and had that experience, which is really beautiful if you think about it, But just that maybe all of us haven't in us the potential to either save ourselves through all these mechanisms we've described, or to actually get some kind of outside help from someone who's been in our lives. I just think it's I don't know.

Sweet, and when it works out, it definitely is. We also have to remember that there have statistically, if everything we're saying is somewhat on base, there have statistically been moments where the third man came too late.

Sweet, and when it works out, it definitely is. We also have to remember that there have statistically, if everything we're saying is somewhat on base, there have statistically been moments where the third man came too late.

Well, yeah, we would never know, right.

Well, yeah, we would never know, right.

We'll never know. There also is still a great stigma around reporting or sharing these experiences. Partially that's because people don't want to seem like they're off base, right or mentally asymmetrical. The third man syndrome is a mysterious phenomenon. Still, even this evening, we know something is definitely happening, But what according to all the signs so far, that appears to be the stuff your brain doesn't want you to know and if you trust us. Folks, if you've come this far with us, thank you again for your time. We would love to hear your stories. If you have encountered something like this, something you cannot explain, and if any of what we've explored over these past two episodes has spoken to you, tell us about it. We'd love to learn more and we'd love to potentially share your stories with your fellow listeners. You can find us via email you give us a call. We also are on all sorts of internet lines.

We'll never know. There also is still a great stigma around reporting or sharing these experiences. Partially that's because people don't want to seem like they're off base, right or mentally asymmetrical. The third man syndrome is a mysterious phenomenon. Still, even this evening, we know something is definitely happening, But what according to all the signs so far, that appears to be the stuff your brain doesn't want you to know and if you trust us. Folks, if you've come this far with us, thank you again for your time. We would love to hear your stories. If you have encountered something like this, something you cannot explain, and if any of what we've explored over these past two episodes has spoken to you, tell us about it. We'd love to learn more and we'd love to potentially share your stories with your fellow listeners. You can find us via email you give us a call. We also are on all sorts of internet lines.

It's right catch us outside online. That's where we are.

It's right catch us outside online. That's where we are.

We exist in the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist on Facebook with our Facebook group Here's where it gets crazy, on exfka, Twitter and on YouTube with video content Galora for your perusing enjoyment on Instagram and TikTok. However, we are Conspiracy Stuff Show.

We exist in the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist on Facebook with our Facebook group Here's where it gets crazy, on exfka, Twitter and on YouTube with video content Galora for your perusing enjoyment on Instagram and TikTok. However, we are Conspiracy Stuff Show.

We have a phone number. It is one eight three three STDWYTK. It's a voicemail system. When you call in, you've got three minutes, give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if we can use your name and message on the air. If you got more to say, then can fit in that voicemail, why not instead send us a good old fashion email.

We have a phone number. It is one eight three three STDWYTK. It's a voicemail system. When you call in, you've got three minutes, give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if we can use your name and message on the air. If you got more to say, then can fit in that voicemail, why not instead send us a good old fashion email.

We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void rights back. Join us out here in the dark. You can send us any old thing. We love episode suggestions. We want to hear your third man stories. We also welcome your jokes. Could I share one if we haven't gotten to it yet. Guys, it's okay. H ZS. Rex said something so good I had to write back to you Directly's Evius. He said, my dog got into our scrabble game. His next bowel movement could spell disaster.

We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void rights back. Join us out here in the dark. You can send us any old thing. We love episode suggestions. We want to hear your third man stories. We also welcome your jokes. Could I share one if we haven't gotten to it yet. Guys, it's okay. H ZS. Rex said something so good I had to write back to you Directly's Evius. He said, my dog got into our scrabble game. His next bowel movement could spell disaster.

That's very funny, hey, at least it's definitely a cut above humor.

That's very funny, hey, at least it's definitely a cut above humor.

As Harry I will say that multiple cuts.

As Harry I will say that multiple cuts.

So I'm bringing this up to thank you zus Rex, and thank everybody who again trust us enough to reach out and hang with us here in the dark. Join us conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

So I'm bringing this up to thank you zus Rex, and thank everybody who again trust us enough to reach out and hang with us here in the dark. Join us conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.