From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeartRadio.

From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeartRadio.

Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noel.

Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noel.

They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer, Paul Mission controlled decant. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Let's start today with a question. Guys, have you ever walked into a room only to forget why he came in there in the first place?

They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer, Paul Mission controlled decant. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Let's start today with a question. Guys, have you ever walked into a room only to forget why he came in there in the first place?

Consistently?

Consistently?

And it's sort of like, you know, losing your keys or something like that too. I think it's that he comes from the same place of kind of you know, scattershot brainedness.

And it's sort of like, you know, losing your keys or something like that too. I think it's that he comes from the same place of kind of you know, scattershot brainedness.

We learned something about this Ben, something with doorways, right.

We learned something about this Ben, something with doorways, right.

Right, Yeah, you're on the money. We're on the same page. This is a helpful psychological I don't know if it's a hack because it's not going to be to the advantage of the human mind. But when people walk through entrances or exits, on some level, the neurotypical brain will assume it's a new situation, like a new level of a video game. Right, so you are no longer in some way, You're no longer the person that was on the other side of the entry. So if you want, I guess the hack is, if you want to forget stuff, just walk through a bunch of doorways.

Right, Yeah, you're on the money. We're on the same page. This is a helpful psychological I don't know if it's a hack because it's not going to be to the advantage of the human mind. But when people walk through entrances or exits, on some level, the neurotypical brain will assume it's a new situation, like a new level of a video game. Right, so you are no longer in some way, You're no longer the person that was on the other side of the entry. So if you want, I guess the hack is, if you want to forget stuff, just walk through a bunch of doorways.

Well, I'll tell you what works for me. I'm serious because this really does happen to me quite frequently in my new especially in my new house, because it's less familiar to me. I think, so the new doorway really is a reset. I walk back out the same door, whichever one I went into, and I just kind of stand there for a moment, collect my thoughts, and then generally I can remember why I went into that other place.

Well, I'll tell you what works for me. I'm serious because this really does happen to me quite frequently in my new especially in my new house, because it's less familiar to me. I think, so the new doorway really is a reset. I walk back out the same door, whichever one I went into, and I just kind of stand there for a moment, collect my thoughts, and then generally I can remember why I went into that other place.

You can also do I don't know if there's a real thing. This is just something I do. I call it micro mnemonic approach. Like when you are before you go to look for the thing, when you realize you lost something, do a small motion that will create a small, short lived sense memory, like cross your fingers and to your point noel like cross your fingers and think keys, or you know, put your arms a kimbo. A word we never get to use and say to yourself keys and then go look for them. And then if you're in a room and you're wondering, why am I here? What has life led me to cross your fingers again? Or put your arms a kimbo, And then it'll hit you. You'll be like, oh, I'm supposed to record a show. That's why I'm here.

You can also do I don't know if there's a real thing. This is just something I do. I call it micro mnemonic approach. Like when you are before you go to look for the thing, when you realize you lost something, do a small motion that will create a small, short lived sense memory, like cross your fingers and to your point noel like cross your fingers and think keys, or you know, put your arms a kimbo. A word we never get to use and say to yourself keys and then go look for them. And then if you're in a room and you're wondering, why am I here? What has life led me to cross your fingers again? Or put your arms a kimbo, And then it'll hit you. You'll be like, oh, I'm supposed to record a show. That's why I'm here.

You know, it's funny, but I mean the things that you're describing sound an awful lot like superstitious behaviors or like things that maybe a baseball player would do in order to like have quote unquote good luck. Right, But that's the thing, right, you're basically talking about weaponized psychology, you know, to try to kind of game yourself into doing you know, having your brain cooperate and do what you want.

You know, it's funny, but I mean the things that you're describing sound an awful lot like superstitious behaviors or like things that maybe a baseball player would do in order to like have quote unquote good luck. Right, But that's the thing, right, you're basically talking about weaponized psychology, you know, to try to kind of game yourself into doing you know, having your brain cooperate and do what you want.

Yeah, it's it's creating multiple pathways toward the desired you know, train of thought. And like most people, if you're like most people, fellow conspiracy realists, at some point you have experienced a sudden bout of forgetfulness. Even people with the real life superpower of adetic memory, which is different from photographic memory because adetic memory is real and photographic memory doesn't actually exist. Even those folks will have a difficult time recalling some things. It can be really frightening, you know, it's weird for most of us. It's kind of like about of the hiccups or an unintended fart. It freaks you out, and then it's gone and you move on with your life. You know who you are, you know what this object in space that you call yourself is. Today's episode explores something really odd, an extreme version of this forgetfulness. We're going to talk about something that might be unfamiliar to a lot of people. Individuals who are called the living unidentified, people who for one reason or another have forgotten themselves. It never clicked back, right, the lost keys in this case where they're identify tease and they are still looking for those keys. This is the story of a man who chose to call himself Benjaman Kyle Well.

Yeah, it's it's creating multiple pathways toward the desired you know, train of thought. And like most people, if you're like most people, fellow conspiracy realists, at some point you have experienced a sudden bout of forgetfulness. Even people with the real life superpower of adetic memory, which is different from photographic memory because adetic memory is real and photographic memory doesn't actually exist. Even those folks will have a difficult time recalling some things. It can be really frightening, you know, it's weird for most of us. It's kind of like about of the hiccups or an unintended fart. It freaks you out, and then it's gone and you move on with your life. You know who you are, you know what this object in space that you call yourself is. Today's episode explores something really odd, an extreme version of this forgetfulness. We're going to talk about something that might be unfamiliar to a lot of people. Individuals who are called the living unidentified, people who for one reason or another have forgotten themselves. It never clicked back, right, the lost keys in this case where they're identify tease and they are still looking for those keys. This is the story of a man who chose to call himself Benjaman Kyle Well.

I think this is a trope that a lot of people are familiar with from you know, film and television, Like the idea of someone turning up in a town and they don't know their own name, or they don't know who they are. It's a really interesting way of kind of exploring the mystery, you know, especially when the person at the center of the mystery doesn't have all the information like Momento a good example.

I think this is a trope that a lot of people are familiar with from you know, film and television, Like the idea of someone turning up in a town and they don't know their own name, or they don't know who they are. It's a really interesting way of kind of exploring the mystery, you know, especially when the person at the center of the mystery doesn't have all the information like Momento a good example.

Memento is probably the quintessential example of that in the world of film. And then there's also uh, oh, Angel Heart Robert de Niro right plays well, I don't want.

Memento is probably the quintessential example of that in the world of film. And then there's also uh, oh, Angel Heart Robert de Niro right plays well, I don't want.

To Yeah, Louis Cipher, Yes, do the math.

To Yeah, Louis Cipher, Yes, do the math.

Yeah, guys, I watched a movie called The Snowman the other day.

Yeah, guys, I watched a movie called The Snowman the other day.

Just isn't hilariously bad. It was pounded in the press.

Just isn't hilariously bad. It was pounded in the press.

The main character is Harry Hole.

The main character is Harry Hole.

Yeah, it's a series of books, I know.

Yeah, it's a series of books, I know.

But it's just zero with zero, like recognition that the guy's name is Harry Hole.

But it's just zero with zero, like recognition that the guy's name is Harry Hole.

Come on, oh, Matt, forgot to tell you. Uh figured out on a different show. We figured out a great alias as lid Sec. Lets you choose your own name you should probably go with, or we respectfully submit that listeners should should consider what what was it?

Come on, oh, Matt, forgot to tell you. Uh figured out on a different show. We figured out a great alias as lid Sec. Lets you choose your own name you should probably go with, or we respectfully submit that listeners should should consider what what was it?

No con check.

No con check.

Check push, which is the singular and plural of specific.

Check push, which is the singular and plural of specific.

Marty gra Polish Marty grab type. But we're not talking about pun check. We're not talking about Harry Hole. We're talking about.

Marty gra Polish Marty grab type. But we're not talking about pun check. We're not talking about Harry Hole. We're talking about.

Benjamin Benjamin, Benja Man m A and am I and Kyle. Here are the facts. The story The best way to start the story is in Richmond Hill, a small town near Savannah in our home state of Georgia, on August thirty first, two thousand and four, right after Matt and Nola and I celebrated our birthdays. It's not included in most of the media, but it's true. There was an employee at a burger king sun you hour who walked out to the dumpster. You know there at work. Walk out to the dumpster only defined an unconscious, nude, sunburned, rash ridden guy in front of the dumpster and riddled with fire ant bites. So in fire ants and fire ants, crawling, crawling on, crawling on the poor guy. And so what you do, this is not what you signed up for when you decide to get a paycheck at burger king. You freak out.

Benjamin Benjamin, Benja Man m A and am I and Kyle. Here are the facts. The story The best way to start the story is in Richmond Hill, a small town near Savannah in our home state of Georgia, on August thirty first, two thousand and four, right after Matt and Nola and I celebrated our birthdays. It's not included in most of the media, but it's true. There was an employee at a burger king sun you hour who walked out to the dumpster. You know there at work. Walk out to the dumpster only defined an unconscious, nude, sunburned, rash ridden guy in front of the dumpster and riddled with fire ant bites. So in fire ants and fire ants, crawling, crawling on, crawling on the poor guy. And so what you do, this is not what you signed up for when you decide to get a paycheck at burger king. You freak out.

Yeah, you go, yikes, I need to call someone. This looks like it might be a dead body.

Yeah, you go, yikes, I need to call someone. This looks like it might be a dead body.

Right, this is not a typical day at burger king, right. And also, you know, I like that you're pointing out the idea of whether or not it's a corpse, because if someone's not visibly moving, if they're not visibly breathing, then the best way for you as a civilian, to see if they're alive is to touch them, and so understandably, our pal son yo Auer said, nah, let's call the cops.

Right, this is not a typical day at burger king, right. And also, you know, I like that you're pointing out the idea of whether or not it's a corpse, because if someone's not visibly moving, if they're not visibly breathing, then the best way for you as a civilian, to see if they're alive is to touch them, and so understandably, our pal son yo Auer said, nah, let's call the cops.

Well, it's a real that's a real. This a serious situation. There to think about whether or not you actually physically even walk over near the scene, right, you shouldn't. It's just like we talked about with the gun, right, like, what do you do? Like, probably the best thing as a civilian is raise your hand and say, uh, some Boddy, would the authority.

Well, it's a real that's a real. This a serious situation. There to think about whether or not you actually physically even walk over near the scene, right, you shouldn't. It's just like we talked about with the gun, right, like, what do you do? Like, probably the best thing as a civilian is raise your hand and say, uh, some Boddy, would the authority.

To professional do it?

To professional do it?

Please?

Please?

Well, not only that, I mean the professional to help the individual, but also to make sure that you're not in some way seen as culpable or you know, or do something wrong or get mixed up in something. By the way, you guys, you know what, My first ever job.

Well, not only that, I mean the professional to help the individual, but also to make sure that you're not in some way seen as culpable or you know, or do something wrong or get mixed up in something. By the way, you guys, you know what, My first ever job.

Was laying in front of a Burger kingdomster.

Was laying in front of a Burger kingdomster.

Not not not in front, Okay, I did take a lot of trash out to the Burger King dumpster that you I worked at a Burger King. That was my first job when I was like sixteen.

Not not not in front, Okay, I did take a lot of trash out to the Burger King dumpster that you I worked at a Burger King. That was my first job when I was like sixteen.

Dude, whoppers. Whoppers are awesome.

Dude, whoppers. Whoppers are awesome.

I didn't have one until like well into adulthood. We were doing this show when I finally tried a whopper.

I didn't have one until like well into adulthood. We were doing this show when I finally tried a whopper.

It's the superior fast food burger, there's no question about it. But I learned and working there, that you can do all kinds of stuff, you know, the whole have it your way thing that's real. You can ask for it hot, you can ask for it cut in half, you can ask for it, you know, with all kinds of other fixings, and yeah, if you ask for it hot, you get a fresh one. And there's little little modifiers on the cash redister for those things. They're very real. A lot of secret menu stuff at Burger.

It's the superior fast food burger, there's no question about it. But I learned and working there, that you can do all kinds of stuff, you know, the whole have it your way thing that's real. You can ask for it hot, you can ask for it cut in half, you can ask for it, you know, with all kinds of other fixings, and yeah, if you ask for it hot, you get a fresh one. And there's little little modifiers on the cash redister for those things. They're very real. A lot of secret menu stuff at Burger.

King, well you can get. You can get, like if you go to a fast food place. I would hope as long as you're not rude and winging and demanding, you can get people to work with you, you know what I mean, like for.

King, well you can get. You can get, like if you go to a fast food place. I would hope as long as you're not rude and winging and demanding, you can get people to work with you, you know what I mean, like for.

Sure, but it really is codified within the whole Burger King Code of Ethics and Customer Service.

Sure, but it really is codified within the whole Burger King Code of Ethics and Customer Service.

Well, one thing that is also codified at least this Burger King is knowing when to contact authorities.

Well, one thing that is also codified at least this Burger King is knowing when to contact authorities.

Yep, and they did that.

Yep, and they did that.

Yeah, and they did that, which is the correct move. This person regains consciousness in the system. Now for the purposes of law enforcement there in Richmond Hill, this would be a John Doe no id right, because there are no clothes. The officer on the scene did it. We don't want to make them sound like a jerk, because it was the logical thing. They in their report they described this individual as a sleepy vagrant. Then the vagrant catches a non consensual uber to Saint Joseph's Hospital in Savannah, Georgia, where the hospital staff decides to call him Burger King Doe. Doe great street name. But also also it makes sense because if you are in a large medical facility in a city and you get a lot of people who are temporarily John Doe's, you have to differentiate between them. So this is Burger King Doe.

Yeah, and they did that, which is the correct move. This person regains consciousness in the system. Now for the purposes of law enforcement there in Richmond Hill, this would be a John Doe no id right, because there are no clothes. The officer on the scene did it. We don't want to make them sound like a jerk, because it was the logical thing. They in their report they described this individual as a sleepy vagrant. Then the vagrant catches a non consensual uber to Saint Joseph's Hospital in Savannah, Georgia, where the hospital staff decides to call him Burger King Doe. Doe great street name. But also also it makes sense because if you are in a large medical facility in a city and you get a lot of people who are temporarily John Doe's, you have to differentiate between them. So this is Burger King Doe.

And interestingly enough, you know they ran tests, they did all the things. You know, he did have cataracts like you mentioned, but he did not have it not test positive for any illegal substances.

And interestingly enough, you know they ran tests, they did all the things. You know, he did have cataracts like you mentioned, but he did not have it not test positive for any illegal substances.

And you'll find in some reporting on this story that people will state he was found bloodied or beaten like It's not true, at least not according to the.

And you'll find in some reporting on this story that people will state he was found bloodied or beaten like It's not true, at least not according to the.

Reporting in Firing the New Republic.

Reporting in Firing the New Republic.

The New Republic article that was published, like one of the original ones that really talked about this in depth.

The New Republic article that was published, like one of the original ones that really talked about this in depth.

Uh.

Uh.

They did say that there there were three small depressions found on his.

They did say that there there were three small depressions found on his.

Skull, but yeah, but they were older.

Skull, but yeah, but they were older.

Exactly, they'd been around for a long time.

Exactly, they'd been around for a long time.

Yeah, yeah, he had some. He also had some scarring h on his left arm and on his neck, but these were old. These were not fresh wounds. The freshest wounds he had were from fire ants. And as any anyone who lives in the US can attest, fire ants are not to be messed with.

Yeah, yeah, he had some. He also had some scarring h on his left arm and on his neck, but these were old. These were not fresh wounds. The freshest wounds he had were from fire ants. And as any anyone who lives in the US can attest, fire ants are not to be messed with.

Well, you'll get some weltz from that, but it's not going to draw blood, right, and it's definitely not going to mess with your mental state.

Well, you'll get some weltz from that, but it's not going to draw blood, right, and it's definitely not going to mess with your mental state.

No, No, unless you have an allergy or something, it could like cause you to go into some sort of shock, but not not cognitive. I can't imagine even with.

No, No, unless you have an allergy or something, it could like cause you to go into some sort of shock, but not not cognitive. I can't imagine even with.

No otherwise people would be getting high on fire ants, which they're not curs.

No otherwise people would be getting high on fire ants, which they're not curs.

You don't know.

You don't know.

Probably people have tried to get high on everything we're talking about. Chist Cookbook, don't trust it. By the way, the I have multiple versions of that work, and it's important, but they're not all the same version. There's there's some trolling in there, but it is how I found out about nutmeg. The sailor's high.

Probably people have tried to get high on everything we're talking about. Chist Cookbook, don't trust it. By the way, the I have multiple versions of that work, and it's important, but they're not all the same version. There's there's some trolling in there, but it is how I found out about nutmeg. The sailor's high.

So, so this guy is in a delightful seasoning for your hot cocoa.

So, so this guy is in a delightful seasoning for your hot cocoa.

It's pretty great.

It's pretty great.

Uh.

Uh.

So, this guy is of European descent, he's in his fifties. Aside from his cataracts which are pretty severe, he looks like an average dude health wise, as you pointed out. And there's no trace of serious alcohol, no trace of serious drugs in his system, nor are there traces of long term drug abuse, which are also very visible. Right. Uh And one doctor seemed a little surprised to say, oh, oh, BK do his lab results are all within normal limits and the main thing they could tell then it's like you're looking at a car and you say, okay, the engine works needs a new paint job.

So, this guy is of European descent, he's in his fifties. Aside from his cataracts which are pretty severe, he looks like an average dude health wise, as you pointed out. And there's no trace of serious alcohol, no trace of serious drugs in his system, nor are there traces of long term drug abuse, which are also very visible. Right. Uh And one doctor seemed a little surprised to say, oh, oh, BK do his lab results are all within normal limits and the main thing they could tell then it's like you're looking at a car and you say, okay, the engine works needs a new paint job.

But they's got no VEN number.

But they's got no VEN number.

But there's no ven.

But there's no ven.

That's great. Yeah, actually I like that there's no vin. And he had a long, scraggly beard with junk in it, and his fingernails were all raggedy and dirty. But he looked like a normal guy who had just been living rough without explanation. Psychologically though, is very, very different, and folks in the audience today who have medical experience, first, thank you and Secondly, you might recognize some of these symptoms we're about to describe. The guy refuses to eat or speak at first. He's in Saint Joe for about eight days. He does speak occasionally, like he comes out of his shell a little bit, but mainly to beef up with the doctors. He doesn't want the doctors or the nurses, anyone on the staff to interact with him. The few things he does say are pretty confusing. He says he lived in the woods for about seventeen years. When they asked him about his identity, he gave them a version of the name they had put on him in the hospital. He said they called me BK around here, and whenever someone said okay, yeah, sure, but what's your real name, he would say they were confusing him and say they were confusing him on purpose, and then he would either go back to sleep or feign sleep.

That's great. Yeah, actually I like that there's no vin. And he had a long, scraggly beard with junk in it, and his fingernails were all raggedy and dirty. But he looked like a normal guy who had just been living rough without explanation. Psychologically though, is very, very different, and folks in the audience today who have medical experience, first, thank you and Secondly, you might recognize some of these symptoms we're about to describe. The guy refuses to eat or speak at first. He's in Saint Joe for about eight days. He does speak occasionally, like he comes out of his shell a little bit, but mainly to beef up with the doctors. He doesn't want the doctors or the nurses, anyone on the staff to interact with him. The few things he does say are pretty confusing. He says he lived in the woods for about seventeen years. When they asked him about his identity, he gave them a version of the name they had put on him in the hospital. He said they called me BK around here, and whenever someone said okay, yeah, sure, but what's your real name, he would say they were confusing him and say they were confusing him on purpose, and then he would either go back to sleep or feign sleep.

M M.

M M.

So let's gett through to the psych word and put him on hal Doll, right is the next logical movie. I know, I know it's protocol. He was like calling the nurses' staff demons and you know, spitting at people and stuff.

So let's gett through to the psych word and put him on hal Doll, right is the next logical movie. I know, I know it's protocol. He was like calling the nurses' staff demons and you know, spitting at people and stuff.

I mean it was yeah, and he was a potentially physical danger to them. He was, you know, like thrashing out at them, right.

I mean it was yeah, and he was a potentially physical danger to them. He was, you know, like thrashing out at them, right.

He had to be restrained.

He had to be restrained.

Yeah, so you know, putting him. I understand what you're saying. You know, like it seems like a jump, right, but he was, like he did seem like he could potentially be dangerous, especially given his like confusion, his state of confusion he seemed to be in.

Yeah, so you know, putting him. I understand what you're saying. You know, like it seems like a jump, right, but he was, like he did seem like he could potentially be dangerous, especially given his like confusion, his state of confusion he seemed to be in.

Yeah, I've got some I've got some uh contacts who work at a hospital in Atlanta called Grady, And yeah.

Yeah, I've got some I've got some uh contacts who work at a hospital in Atlanta called Grady, And yeah.

I could see ut We're in audio podcasts and so folks, Paul, you probably saw this too.

I could see ut We're in audio podcasts and so folks, Paul, you probably saw this too.

As soon as I said Grady, Matt and Noel both at once went because we all know great Grady is. Grady has one of the best burned slash trauma units in this part of the country and therefore the world. It also is a place that has a lot of similar situations, mental illness, unhoused people, things can get rough. Folks have to be restrained. If law enforcement arrest someone and has to take them to the hospital, they often take them to Grady and handcuff them.

As soon as I said Grady, Matt and Noel both at once went because we all know great Grady is. Grady has one of the best burned slash trauma units in this part of the country and therefore the world. It also is a place that has a lot of similar situations, mental illness, unhoused people, things can get rough. Folks have to be restrained. If law enforcement arrest someone and has to take them to the hospital, they often take them to Grady and handcuff them.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't there a law or something some policy at Grady where you can if you go to the emergency room, it's not going to like bankrupt you like there's a thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't there a law or something some policy at Grady where you can if you go to the emergency room, it's not going to like bankrupt you like there's a thing.

Yes, yeah, that's correct, and it's good that that exists.

Yes, yeah, that's correct, and it's good that that exists.

But it also makes it a heavily trafficked hospital to your point, you know.

But it also makes it a heavily trafficked hospital to your point, you know.

Yeah, And you know people don't go to hospitals for fun, right. If you go in the waiting room of a hospital, no one in there is having the best day of their life, right, So I mean outside of maternity wards anyway, So doctors figure this guy for a catatonic schizophrenic. He's got all he's showing the signs of this, and without further analysis, that's a reasonable assumption, Like you said, Noel, they prescribe haldall non consensually dose him up with this pretty strong antipsychotic, and they transfer him to a psychological ward at another hospital across town. It's called memorial. Whole time when they can get through to the dude, he is saying he has no idea where he's from, he has no idea who he is, and he has no idea how he ended up in Georgia in the first place. It's like a sudden moment of clarity, of lucidity decades into his life, and he had a vague series of you could call them images in tableau about his life before he was found in front of that burger king stuff. You should know, by the way, shout out credit where it's due. They did a great episode on this several years back, and I think it was I want to say it was before the revelations that we're about to explore today.

Yeah, And you know people don't go to hospitals for fun, right. If you go in the waiting room of a hospital, no one in there is having the best day of their life, right, So I mean outside of maternity wards anyway, So doctors figure this guy for a catatonic schizophrenic. He's got all he's showing the signs of this, and without further analysis, that's a reasonable assumption, Like you said, Noel, they prescribe haldall non consensually dose him up with this pretty strong antipsychotic, and they transfer him to a psychological ward at another hospital across town. It's called memorial. Whole time when they can get through to the dude, he is saying he has no idea where he's from, he has no idea who he is, and he has no idea how he ended up in Georgia in the first place. It's like a sudden moment of clarity, of lucidity decades into his life, and he had a vague series of you could call them images in tableau about his life before he was found in front of that burger king stuff. You should know, by the way, shout out credit where it's due. They did a great episode on this several years back, and I think it was I want to say it was before the revelations that we're about to explore today.

But well, let's talk about that. Tableau is just really fast, because yeah, what did he know?

But well, let's talk about that. Tableau is just really fast, because yeah, what did he know?

What did he say?

What did he say?

It was things like I remember the inside of this one movie theater. I remember I think I worked in a restaurant, because I you know, I remember certain things about a restaurant.

It was things like I remember the inside of this one movie theater. I remember I think I worked in a restaurant, because I you know, I remember certain things about a restaurant.

I think I had of a spidy sense that I'm from Indianapolis. I have three brothers. He was certain about one thing. He didn't know his Social Security number, right, was huge problem. He didn't know any parents' names, any family names. But he was certain that he was born on August twenty ninth, nineteen forty eight, and he said he had the He said he knew this because he had the same birthday as Michael Jackson just ten years earlier.

I think I had of a spidy sense that I'm from Indianapolis. I have three brothers. He was certain about one thing. He didn't know his Social Security number, right, was huge problem. He didn't know any parents' names, any family names. But he was certain that he was born on August twenty ninth, nineteen forty eight, and he said he had the He said he knew this because he had the same birthday as Michael Jackson just ten years earlier.

Wow, it's really interesting. Well, you know, and as an attending doctor for somebody like this, you've probably seen something very similar before, where in the end of that interaction you find out, oh that that person was putting it on, they were faking it. So you might then apply that same logic to this situation. Say, this guy's, yeah, come on, he's trying to get away from something, right, Why would you feign amnesia like that? You're you're running from the law, right. But again, that's just logic kind of taking over.

Wow, it's really interesting. Well, you know, and as an attending doctor for somebody like this, you've probably seen something very similar before, where in the end of that interaction you find out, oh that that person was putting it on, they were faking it. So you might then apply that same logic to this situation. Say, this guy's, yeah, come on, he's trying to get away from something, right, Why would you feign amnesia like that? You're you're running from the law, right. But again, that's just logic kind of taking over.

Right, right, And we're not painting the doctors here as jerks at all. They're working off precedent, and say ten people who are claiming they have this kind of amnesia, they're going to they're going to get better, or they're going to reveal that they had untoward motives.

Right, right, And we're not painting the doctors here as jerks at all. They're working off precedent, and say ten people who are claiming they have this kind of amnesia, they're going to they're going to get better, or they're going to reveal that they had untoward motives.

Well, and saying, I mean, I'm you know, maybe I don't mean to sound flippant or like I'm disregarding medical professionals. I know it's very difficult to be, you know, a physician in one of these high pressure situations. We obviously have a lot of work to do on the healthcare system in this country, but they're following protocol. I mean, at an operation of that scale like this or like a Grady situation, you have to tick boxes. There's only you have to follow a certain standard operating procedure, and that's just that's what you do. It's the only way to get people through and to make sure that people get the best care possible, which you know, maybe isn't always the best care, but it's the best care possible.

Well, and saying, I mean, I'm you know, maybe I don't mean to sound flippant or like I'm disregarding medical professionals. I know it's very difficult to be, you know, a physician in one of these high pressure situations. We obviously have a lot of work to do on the healthcare system in this country, but they're following protocol. I mean, at an operation of that scale like this or like a Grady situation, you have to tick boxes. There's only you have to follow a certain standard operating procedure, and that's just that's what you do. It's the only way to get people through and to make sure that people get the best care possible, which you know, maybe isn't always the best care, but it's the best care possible.

And so we've got if we look at our timeline now, right, it's August two thousand and four, eight days at Saint Joseph's. He ends up in that psych ward at Memorial for four months, and after this he is transferred to kind of a halfway house, a place for people who need help or assistance in one way or another called J. C. Lewis Primary Healthcare Center, and he tells the staff he's tired of going by the name BK or BK do, so he chooses his own name, just like you're in witness protection, which will come up later. He goes by the name Benjaman Kyle until someone can help him find his identity, So still BK technically, you know, right, yeah, Matt, you were saying that off air too, Like that's you'd say, like that's how he went with it. Or part of the inspiration. We're speculating, but that does have the ring of truth. Also, he makes a good name for himself. He's not a crazy dude. He likes to assist. He's volunteering to do chores. He's clearly articulate. He is able. This is important. He's able to remember the people and the events over there at JC Lewis Primary Healthcare Center. Right, there's a store. Sorry again in this great New Republic article by Matt Wolfe, where he apparently goes into the supply closet or the clothing donation bend and dresses in a way that's like a staff uniform, and he wants to help mop up, even though he can't see very well. He's basically legally blind at this point. And he starts to make friends as Benjamin Kyle, and for years and years no one can figure out who he was, at least that is until twenty fifteen. We're gonna pause for a word from our sponsor, and then we'll dive further into the strange case of Benjamin Kyle. Here's where it gets crazy. Sometimes it just takes one person, one person caring. You know, history hinges on these tiny things in this case, I would posit that a lot of the credit for solving the mystery goes to a nurse at Elsie Lewis named Catherine Slater.

And so we've got if we look at our timeline now, right, it's August two thousand and four, eight days at Saint Joseph's. He ends up in that psych ward at Memorial for four months, and after this he is transferred to kind of a halfway house, a place for people who need help or assistance in one way or another called J. C. Lewis Primary Healthcare Center, and he tells the staff he's tired of going by the name BK or BK do, so he chooses his own name, just like you're in witness protection, which will come up later. He goes by the name Benjaman Kyle until someone can help him find his identity, So still BK technically, you know, right, yeah, Matt, you were saying that off air too, Like that's you'd say, like that's how he went with it. Or part of the inspiration. We're speculating, but that does have the ring of truth. Also, he makes a good name for himself. He's not a crazy dude. He likes to assist. He's volunteering to do chores. He's clearly articulate. He is able. This is important. He's able to remember the people and the events over there at JC Lewis Primary Healthcare Center. Right, there's a store. Sorry again in this great New Republic article by Matt Wolfe, where he apparently goes into the supply closet or the clothing donation bend and dresses in a way that's like a staff uniform, and he wants to help mop up, even though he can't see very well. He's basically legally blind at this point. And he starts to make friends as Benjamin Kyle, and for years and years no one can figure out who he was, at least that is until twenty fifteen. We're gonna pause for a word from our sponsor, and then we'll dive further into the strange case of Benjamin Kyle. Here's where it gets crazy. Sometimes it just takes one person, one person caring. You know, history hinges on these tiny things in this case, I would posit that a lot of the credit for solving the mystery goes to a nurse at Elsie Lewis named Catherine Slater.

Yeah, it's interesting you pointed out Ben in the outline the idea of like, you know, living off the grid even or just having no identity isn't exactly a crime. I mean, I guess it's technically you're supposed to have a Social Security number, right, I mean, is that the law? Do you have to have one?

Yeah, it's interesting you pointed out Ben in the outline the idea of like, you know, living off the grid even or just having no identity isn't exactly a crime. I mean, I guess it's technically you're supposed to have a Social Security number, right, I mean, is that the law? Do you have to have one?

You can use an a tax ID or an EI and some some like income tax activists go with that, got it?

You can use an a tax ID or an EI and some some like income tax activists go with that, got it?

So Yeah, to your point, like, there wasn't like a criminal you know, report file because I guess a crime hadn't really been committed other than like, you know, he was naked, but he was you know, a victim essentially, right, So he wasn't a criminal. So therefore the was really no follow through you know from either the FBI and Savannah or the police you know who initially came to the scene at that Burger king right.

So Yeah, to your point, like, there wasn't like a criminal you know, report file because I guess a crime hadn't really been committed other than like, you know, he was naked, but he was you know, a victim essentially, right, So he wasn't a criminal. So therefore the was really no follow through you know from either the FBI and Savannah or the police you know who initially came to the scene at that Burger king right.

Right, Like to Matt's point, he wasn't actually beaten. That's some misreporting. Uh So who are you gonna file a criminal complaint against the fire ants. You're gonna take him to like fire ants court. How does that even work? Corurie for ants.

Right, Like to Matt's point, he wasn't actually beaten. That's some misreporting. Uh So who are you gonna file a criminal complaint against the fire ants. You're gonna take him to like fire ants court. How does that even work? Corurie for ants.

Let's uh, let's get into this person who helped bk Benjamin out, Catherine Slater, because she's really important. She she worked a late shift, like a night shift at the same time when Benjamin Kyle was doing a lot of work there, some of the volunteer work, and they ended up just striking up of friendship and they started just talking with each other, being very friendly. And she is the one who basically was like, I saw him as way more than just this guy who's also you know who's there a patient. She saw him as a human being, as somebody that she wanted to help.

Let's uh, let's get into this person who helped bk Benjamin out, Catherine Slater, because she's really important. She she worked a late shift, like a night shift at the same time when Benjamin Kyle was doing a lot of work there, some of the volunteer work, and they ended up just striking up of friendship and they started just talking with each other, being very friendly. And she is the one who basically was like, I saw him as way more than just this guy who's also you know who's there a patient. She saw him as a human being, as somebody that she wanted to help.

Yeah, and again that's the thing, is the humanity, right, the empathy inherent here. She's also a bit of a bloodhound, right. She has an investigative, interrogative nature. She's the one who reaches out to the FBI. She's the one who reaches out to the cops and they say, rightly in their defense, they say, well, there's not really a crime here. And at this point we should talk a little bit about the FBI. They have currently as of twenty twenty three, as we're recording, they have the world's largest known fingerprint database. I'm snarkily sneaking in largest known because between between just us and the Puzzle Palace folks, I'm pretty sure that five Eyes has more fingerprints.

Yeah, and again that's the thing, is the humanity, right, the empathy inherent here. She's also a bit of a bloodhound, right. She has an investigative, interrogative nature. She's the one who reaches out to the FBI. She's the one who reaches out to the cops and they say, rightly in their defense, they say, well, there's not really a crime here. And at this point we should talk a little bit about the FBI. They have currently as of twenty twenty three, as we're recording, they have the world's largest known fingerprint database. I'm snarkily sneaking in largest known because between between just us and the Puzzle Palace folks, I'm pretty sure that five Eyes has more fingerprints.

Yeah, well, I mean, just think about all the background checks. There are basically two reasons why you were going to get fingerprinted in the United States at least, and it does vary by state, of course, because we have states loss. But it's because you get picked up for some misdemeanor to a felony, right, something criminally wrong you did, You're going to get all ten year digits fingerprinted, or you have to go through a criminal background check to get a job or to get approval for a couple different things.

Yeah, well, I mean, just think about all the background checks. There are basically two reasons why you were going to get fingerprinted in the United States at least, and it does vary by state, of course, because we have states loss. But it's because you get picked up for some misdemeanor to a felony, right, something criminally wrong you did, You're going to get all ten year digits fingerprinted, or you have to go through a criminal background check to get a job or to get approval for a couple different things.

Interesting other aspect here, and I'm surprised more people don't talk about this. There was a mass collection of innocent people's fingerprints with identic kits for kids, right, Yeah, that's how they got a lot of people. But weirdly enough, Benjaman Kyle doesn't have his pause on any of these databases, so the FBI gets in this weird like Joseph Heller esque Catch twenty two situation. They know the guy, they know where he is, but they don't know who he is, so they put them on their missing person's page. They contact Interpool and they have to explain this to Interpool. Yeah, we got a missing person. I mean he's here, I guess, but we don't know who he is. Do you do you got any leads? What about you? Canada? And they're like, oh, break this down to me And I was like, well, he's missing, but he's not missing. How do you define missing? Shout out to this one special agent who went off the books, did the right thing, contacted the marshals discreetly in the US and said, Hey, is this guy maybe in witness protection And they said, no, we don't know who he is. Have you have you tried to run his fingerprints? And he's like, my god, you guys, dude.

Interesting other aspect here, and I'm surprised more people don't talk about this. There was a mass collection of innocent people's fingerprints with identic kits for kids, right, Yeah, that's how they got a lot of people. But weirdly enough, Benjaman Kyle doesn't have his pause on any of these databases, so the FBI gets in this weird like Joseph Heller esque Catch twenty two situation. They know the guy, they know where he is, but they don't know who he is, so they put them on their missing person's page. They contact Interpool and they have to explain this to Interpool. Yeah, we got a missing person. I mean he's here, I guess, but we don't know who he is. Do you do you got any leads? What about you? Canada? And they're like, oh, break this down to me And I was like, well, he's missing, but he's not missing. How do you define missing? Shout out to this one special agent who went off the books, did the right thing, contacted the marshals discreetly in the US and said, Hey, is this guy maybe in witness protection And they said, no, we don't know who he is. Have you have you tried to run his fingerprints? And he's like, my god, you guys, dude.

We need we need to get iris scanners for everyone, right, protect.

We need we need to get iris scanners for everyone, right, protect.

Your children, give all their biometric data over to to an Orwellian government. So shout out to you an employee at the GBI, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, because every every state has a Bureau of Investigation.

Your children, give all their biometric data over to to an Orwellian government. So shout out to you an employee at the GBI, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, because every every state has a Bureau of Investigation.

How about just a big old roundom applause for the GBI. I know they're doing a ton of work that we really don't hear about very often. Good work.

How about just a big old roundom applause for the GBI. I know they're doing a ton of work that we really don't hear about very often. Good work.

Yeah, Oh did I tell you? I one of my old friends, and I probably shouldn't say the name on air may have mentioned before works for the GBI in basically in the level of forensics where you go in and figure out how people died. And this person's sense of humor ten out of ten.

Yeah, Oh did I tell you? I one of my old friends, and I probably shouldn't say the name on air may have mentioned before works for the GBI in basically in the level of forensics where you go in and figure out how people died. And this person's sense of humor ten out of ten.

Yes, yeah, I imagine these are off air stories because we don't want to get too specific.

Yes, yeah, I imagine these are off air stories because we don't want to get too specific.

But remind me when we're not recording, there's this thing with the lava lamp. You gotta hear it. Yeah, it's exactly what you're thinking. I says, of course it is, of course it is. So okay, let's talk about this GBI employee, Bo Preston. Bo Preston is training law enforcement in the ins and outs of using this enormous FBI database. Right. This thing is labyrinthine. There's a lot of stuff there. You, It's not like riding a bike, right, So Bo Preston, she knows the system better than anyone else. So she is the person who is probably best suited to figure out whether this guy Benjaman Kyle is there under a different name.

But remind me when we're not recording, there's this thing with the lava lamp. You gotta hear it. Yeah, it's exactly what you're thinking. I says, of course it is, of course it is. So okay, let's talk about this GBI employee, Bo Preston. Bo Preston is training law enforcement in the ins and outs of using this enormous FBI database. Right. This thing is labyrinthine. There's a lot of stuff there. You, It's not like riding a bike, right, So Bo Preston, she knows the system better than anyone else. So she is the person who is probably best suited to figure out whether this guy Benjaman Kyle is there under a different name.

So in this database you find eighty thousand active missing person's cases and over the next year again, you know, just to your point, Ben Preston taking this upon herself, actually you know, combed through three hundred and fifty cases generated by the system personally with no real you know, results, no hits.

So in this database you find eighty thousand active missing person's cases and over the next year again, you know, just to your point, Ben Preston taking this upon herself, actually you know, combed through three hundred and fifty cases generated by the system personally with no real you know, results, no hits.

She was trying to find stuff that could possibly be tied to this guy. So like she's plugged in demographic data basically right, bereft of fingerprints, that's what she's checking.

She was trying to find stuff that could possibly be tied to this guy. So like she's plugged in demographic data basically right, bereft of fingerprints, that's what she's checking.

So then she had a pretty genius idea to you know, incorporate Kyle's case into her training curriculum, you know, which made sense because it was a teachable kind of case in terms of how to deal with cases folks like this, but also perhaps one of the trainees may recognize them, you know, that's really what it takes.

So then she had a pretty genius idea to you know, incorporate Kyle's case into her training curriculum, you know, which made sense because it was a teachable kind of case in terms of how to deal with cases folks like this, but also perhaps one of the trainees may recognize them, you know, that's really what it takes.

Sad yeah, it is well, it is well, and sadly none of that works. Nobody still, nobody recognizes this.

Sad yeah, it is well, it is well, and sadly none of that works. Nobody still, nobody recognizes this.

Picture that moment in every class she's teaching, you know, where you're essentially playing the lottery and you're like, and here's one we couldn't find anybody, bueller, and it just yeah, so prop suppressed him because that's the right thing to do. But again, looks like there are no leads. It's two thousand and seven, so it's three years since Kyle was found, right since BK Doe was found in that Burger King parking lot. And this nurse, Catherine Slater, reaches out to the media. Benjaman Kyle becomes a news phenomenon. The story is first reported in Savannah. National media picks it up. He's on NBC, he's on ABC, you name it. He starts a Facebook page, and as we all know, Facebook is really good at getting personal information. But even Mark Zuckerberg doesn't know who this guy is. I feel like I walked a little bit down the street to take that potshot at zucks.

Picture that moment in every class she's teaching, you know, where you're essentially playing the lottery and you're like, and here's one we couldn't find anybody, bueller, and it just yeah, so prop suppressed him because that's the right thing to do. But again, looks like there are no leads. It's two thousand and seven, so it's three years since Kyle was found, right since BK Doe was found in that Burger King parking lot. And this nurse, Catherine Slater, reaches out to the media. Benjaman Kyle becomes a news phenomenon. The story is first reported in Savannah. National media picks it up. He's on NBC, he's on ABC, you name it. He starts a Facebook page, and as we all know, Facebook is really good at getting personal information. But even Mark Zuckerberg doesn't know who this guy is. I feel like I walked a little bit down the street to take that potshot at zucks.

Because he's like personally going through all of our private data for laughs.

Because he's like personally going through all of our private data for laughs.

Yeah, it's like, who is this guy?

Yeah, it's like, who is this guy?

Yeah?

Yeah?

But every year, four years, each and every single attempt to discover this dude's true or former identity ended up with bupkis failure across the board.

But every year, four years, each and every single attempt to discover this dude's true or former identity ended up with bupkis failure across the board.

And it's not like he wasn't shown on the news, Like seriously, the news, Benjamin's face was on there, there were reports about him. He went on Reddit and did an ama and This isn't a time when Reddit was in its heyday, when everybody was like, oh, we got to use Reddit. Reddit's the best. At least that's when I think that's a week on Unreddit and AMAS were a big deal there, at least for a while. I'm not sure where they stand right now. But he went on, he did all that stuff, nobody recognized him. Still it's ten years later and nobody knows this guy.

And it's not like he wasn't shown on the news, Like seriously, the news, Benjamin's face was on there, there were reports about him. He went on Reddit and did an ama and This isn't a time when Reddit was in its heyday, when everybody was like, oh, we got to use Reddit. Reddit's the best. At least that's when I think that's a week on Unreddit and AMAS were a big deal there, at least for a while. I'm not sure where they stand right now. But he went on, he did all that stuff, nobody recognized him. Still it's ten years later and nobody knows this guy.

And so again it sounds like we're shouting this guy out a lot. The journalist Matt Wolf, with whom we have not spoken directly, but right now, Wolf has, at least for my been bucks, Wolf has the best reporting on this in the New Republic. He really the story. Yeah he he. Wolf has this beautiful quote where he notes just how extraordinary and unusual and disturbing the Kyle cases. He says, quote, we live in an age of extraordinary surveillance and documentation. The government's capacity to keep tabs on us and our capacity to keep tabs on each other is unmatched in human history. Matt Wolfe, welcome to the show. We've been waiting for you.

And so again it sounds like we're shouting this guy out a lot. The journalist Matt Wolf, with whom we have not spoken directly, but right now, Wolf has, at least for my been bucks, Wolf has the best reporting on this in the New Republic. He really the story. Yeah he he. Wolf has this beautiful quote where he notes just how extraordinary and unusual and disturbing the Kyle cases. He says, quote, we live in an age of extraordinary surveillance and documentation. The government's capacity to keep tabs on us and our capacity to keep tabs on each other is unmatched in human history. Matt Wolfe, welcome to the show. We've been waiting for you.

Hello, Hello, old imagine Ben.

Hello, Hello, old imagine Ben.

Please Well, Matt goes into like the NSA's you know capabilities and like outlines a lot of the stuff we've discussed on this show, and I love, I love. He points out how ridiculous it is. It seems ridiculous that somebody could fall through the cracks.

Please Well, Matt goes into like the NSA's you know capabilities and like outlines a lot of the stuff we've discussed on this show, and I love, I love. He points out how ridiculous it is. It seems ridiculous that somebody could fall through the cracks.

Yeah, this guy is a ghost. This is a real weird habbyist corpus case.

Yeah, this guy is a ghost. This is a real weird habbyist corpus case.

You know, you have the.

You know, you have the.

Body but nothing else, right this guy, like, this guy is either the worst person at committing pseudo side or he's telling the truth. And even if this is a great point in your public article, even if Benjamin Kyle quote unquote is faking amnesia, there would have been some trace of him somewhere. Again, logically, it would just be a case of finding the name.

Body but nothing else, right this guy, like, this guy is either the worst person at committing pseudo side or he's telling the truth. And even if this is a great point in your public article, even if Benjamin Kyle quote unquote is faking amnesia, there would have been some trace of him somewhere. Again, logically, it would just be a case of finding the name.

Right.

Right.

We're looking for someone who's never had military service, They've never had a background check, they've never been arrested at least brought in right even to a tank. And they are not one of those generations that got signed up to fingerprinting in childhood. Let's intro guy out of Atlanta, our hometown, a neuropsychologist named Jason King. Jason King is the first expert who really gets an in depth psychological analysis of Kyle.

We're looking for someone who's never had military service, They've never had a background check, they've never been arrested at least brought in right even to a tank. And they are not one of those generations that got signed up to fingerprinting in childhood. Let's intro guy out of Atlanta, our hometown, a neuropsychologist named Jason King. Jason King is the first expert who really gets an in depth psychological analysis of Kyle.

Yeah, he was able to take a look at him, speak with him, examine him directly, and he came to the conclusion that Kyle was likely suffering from what's called dissociative amnesia, which, as you may have put together, is a kind of memory loss that is specifically brought about by trauma stress associated with trauma specifically. So in two thousand and eight, Slater and Kyle do what the next logical step here is to fly to la and go on the Doctor Phil Show. I'm sorry, I'm only laughing because it's just, you know, it is you know, I know what you're gonna say, Matt, and you're totally right. I think it's another way of blasting this out, you know, giving it a wider audience, a wider reach, in the hopes of, you know, turning up some results.

Yeah, he was able to take a look at him, speak with him, examine him directly, and he came to the conclusion that Kyle was likely suffering from what's called dissociative amnesia, which, as you may have put together, is a kind of memory loss that is specifically brought about by trauma stress associated with trauma specifically. So in two thousand and eight, Slater and Kyle do what the next logical step here is to fly to la and go on the Doctor Phil Show. I'm sorry, I'm only laughing because it's just, you know, it is you know, I know what you're gonna say, Matt, and you're totally right. I think it's another way of blasting this out, you know, giving it a wider audience, a wider reach, in the hopes of, you know, turning up some results.

Still is a terrible person.

Still is a terrible person.

Well he is despite all that. In two thousand and eight, Doctor Phil is the huge Yeah, I mean seriously, two thousand and eight, Doctor Phil's a little hits a little different than he does right out because he was so he was well liked by millions of people, and that you can see that by the numbers here, right, It's not like nobody saw that episode.

Well he is despite all that. In two thousand and eight, Doctor Phil is the huge Yeah, I mean seriously, two thousand and eight, Doctor Phil's a little hits a little different than he does right out because he was so he was well liked by millions of people, and that you can see that by the numbers here, right, It's not like nobody saw that episode.

Yeah, exactly, Yeah, more than four million people tune in when the episode goes live October sixteenth, two thousand and eight. It's it's a segment called or the episode is called who am I? And spoiler, they don't answer it because they're trying, you know, and they can't do it. And you can you can see that Catherine Slater, you know, she accompanies Benjamin Kyle. She doesn't want to go on air, but the producers really push her to do so, so against her better judgment, she becomes part of the Brujaha. And now we have to think, right, So people see their doctor Phil's segment or whatever, they see their evening news at their regional affiliate and they think, huh, that's weird, and they might go to internet forums and do some armchair sleuthing, but eventually they forget about the story. And the thing about news cycles is that the stories continue well after ABC or NBC or insert here stops talking about it. And I think we should pause just to acknowledge how much the situation there's no other way to say it. The situation sucks for this guy you think of, like, okay, so there's like an order of operations to exist in US society, right, you got to have a Social Security number. You gotta have some version of a birth certificate, whether it's from Hawaii or Kenya. Who hot takes?

Yeah, exactly, Yeah, more than four million people tune in when the episode goes live October sixteenth, two thousand and eight. It's it's a segment called or the episode is called who am I? And spoiler, they don't answer it because they're trying, you know, and they can't do it. And you can you can see that Catherine Slater, you know, she accompanies Benjamin Kyle. She doesn't want to go on air, but the producers really push her to do so, so against her better judgment, she becomes part of the Brujaha. And now we have to think, right, So people see their doctor Phil's segment or whatever, they see their evening news at their regional affiliate and they think, huh, that's weird, and they might go to internet forums and do some armchair sleuthing, but eventually they forget about the story. And the thing about news cycles is that the stories continue well after ABC or NBC or insert here stops talking about it. And I think we should pause just to acknowledge how much the situation there's no other way to say it. The situation sucks for this guy you think of, like, okay, so there's like an order of operations to exist in US society, right, you got to have a Social Security number. You gotta have some version of a birth certificate, whether it's from Hawaii or Kenya. Who hot takes?

Oh yeah, how do you get something like Barack.

Oh yeah, how do you get something like Barack.

Obama was born in the US. It's pretty yeah, yeah.

Obama was born in the US. It's pretty yeah, yeah.

Okay, now I'm just joking, but no, but really, so you don't have a birth certificate, how do you get something like a Social Security number which is issued after you, like right after you're born.

Okay, now I'm just joking, but no, but really, so you don't have a birth certificate, how do you get something like a Social Security number which is issued after you, like right after you're born.

Yeah, that's what I was kind of getting at too earlier about like, is not illegal to not have a Social Security number?

Yeah, that's what I was kind of getting at too earlier about like, is not illegal to not have a Social Security number?

But I guess you do.

But I guess you do.

You are supposed to have some sort of identifying you know, like the VIN number argument to me alive, you're supposed to be tagged.

You are supposed to have some sort of identifying you know, like the VIN number argument to me alive, you're supposed to be tagged.

If you don't have those two things, what form of identification are you taken down to the DMV to get a driver's license or a state I D.

If you don't have those two things, what form of identification are you taken down to the DMV to get a driver's license or a state I D.

Right, I would say again, you can get that like tax i D thing or.

Right, I would say again, you can get that like tax i D thing or.

With what though, what do you get a tax ID with? Well? That's people who are in.

With what though, what do you get a tax ID with? Well? That's people who are in.

This guy parents can do this. It is to your point, Noel, is not illegal on the books to not have a social security number. But I would argue it is functionally illegal. Yeah, the same way like in the movie Gadiga, which is an awesome film. In the movie Gadiga, they don't make it illegal not to be genetically modified. They just make it in practice impossible to succeed in society.

This guy parents can do this. It is to your point, Noel, is not illegal on the books to not have a social security number. But I would argue it is functionally illegal. Yeah, the same way like in the movie Gadiga, which is an awesome film. In the movie Gadiga, they don't make it illegal not to be genetically modified. They just make it in practice impossible to succeed in society.

Prohibitably difficult to just live do basic things.

Prohibitably difficult to just live do basic things.

You know, you price people out.

You know, you price people out.

Yeah, dude, I mean I had to get my mom's car title transferred to me. I went to the DMV in two cities no less than six times before I was before I had all the appropriate documentation, you know. So bureaucracy is.

Yeah, dude, I mean I had to get my mom's car title transferred to me. I went to the DMV in two cities no less than six times before I was before I had all the appropriate documentation, you know. So bureaucracy is.

A and so this guy like, it's terrible. You can't get a job, you can't get a house, car, a bank loan of any sort, you know what I mean. And if you ever get jammed up with the law, things immediately escalate. Who is this guy? You know what I mean? What's your real name? I don't Oh, I amnesia. I bet buddy, get in the car. So, luckily we said this was going to be a bit of a good news episode. Luckily there is good news. DNA came into play. So we're going to pause for a word from our sponsors and then we'll come back with some good news and some well you know, the show, some disturbing questions.

A and so this guy like, it's terrible. You can't get a job, you can't get a house, car, a bank loan of any sort, you know what I mean. And if you ever get jammed up with the law, things immediately escalate. Who is this guy? You know what I mean? What's your real name? I don't Oh, I amnesia. I bet buddy, get in the car. So, luckily we said this was going to be a bit of a good news episode. Luckily there is good news. DNA came into play. So we're going to pause for a word from our sponsors and then we'll come back with some good news and some well you know, the show, some disturbing questions.

And we've returned. Okay, so we've discussed testing this person by looking at any potential documentation that could exist around him. Nope, can't check that box off. We've tested his fingerprints, Nope, not in any databases. We've even looked at his DNA, but it's not in databases either. There's another technique that is developing around this time in twenty fifteen. Well it's a little before that, but it's really becoming a more robust set of technologies and techniques called forensic genealogy, where you take somebody's DNA and you compare it to other samples of DNA that have been given. Right, We've talked about this with several case companies that do this, and yet we talked about it with cold cases like with the Golden State killer. What if we run his genetic data through one of these processes.

And we've returned. Okay, so we've discussed testing this person by looking at any potential documentation that could exist around him. Nope, can't check that box off. We've tested his fingerprints, Nope, not in any databases. We've even looked at his DNA, but it's not in databases either. There's another technique that is developing around this time in twenty fifteen. Well it's a little before that, but it's really becoming a more robust set of technologies and techniques called forensic genealogy, where you take somebody's DNA and you compare it to other samples of DNA that have been given. Right, We've talked about this with several case companies that do this, and yet we talked about it with cold cases like with the Golden State killer. What if we run his genetic data through one of these processes.

And this is where we want to shout out. A team of genealogical forensics folks led by CC MORE, Capital CE, Capital CE and More gets into the trenches, right, and they're finding some relatively weak matches, but then they hit the mother load. They find a very strong match. They also find a couple of implied skeletons in the closet, things that are described euphemistically as non paternity events. Whole other bag of badgers doesn't really matter for this story. What does matter is that CC Moore and team found a connection for Benjamin Kyle. And he goes on to his Facebook page and he says the following.

And this is where we want to shout out. A team of genealogical forensics folks led by CC MORE, Capital CE, Capital CE and More gets into the trenches, right, and they're finding some relatively weak matches, but then they hit the mother load. They find a very strong match. They also find a couple of implied skeletons in the closet, things that are described euphemistically as non paternity events. Whole other bag of badgers doesn't really matter for this story. What does matter is that CC Moore and team found a connection for Benjamin Kyle. And he goes on to his Facebook page and he says the following.

A little over two months ago, I was informed by ccmore they had established my identity using DNA. Many people have shared their DNA profiles that they may be compared with mine. Through a process of elimination, they determined my ancestral bloodline and who my relatives were. A DNA test taken by a close relative has confirmed that we are related. And this was all courtesy of Moore's company, the DNA Detectives dot Com, who spent two years working on this case. So it's not just like a Google search, you know, genetic Google search. The word detectives here is pretty appropriate.

A little over two months ago, I was informed by ccmore they had established my identity using DNA. Many people have shared their DNA profiles that they may be compared with mine. Through a process of elimination, they determined my ancestral bloodline and who my relatives were. A DNA test taken by a close relative has confirmed that we are related. And this was all courtesy of Moore's company, the DNA Detectives dot Com, who spent two years working on this case. So it's not just like a Google search, you know, genetic Google search. The word detectives here is pretty appropriate.

So the guy says, he always said back when he's bk do, he always said he vaguely thought he was from Indianapolis. He felt very certain that he knew his birthday, and he related to Michael Jackson, the King of pop And he also had a couple of other vague spidery sense recollections. C. C. Moore and her company they mentioned DNA detectives. They go through this quite throw process of elimination. Eventually they find a family called the Powells or group of families, and then from there they find a subgroup, a very specific set of Powells, and these Powells are in Lafayette, Indiana. Ultimately, she and her team get to a high school yearbook from nineteen sixty seven in the town and in the book a picture of a guy named William Powell. He is in tenth grade when the picture is taken. He's wearing glasses, he's wearing plaid. You can you can find the picture and it's one of the You know, they're at a weird point here because for a decade people have been looking at this picture Benjamin Kyle and saying, hey, you look kind of like a guy I saw at a waffle house. That's true, that's someone said that. So now they're armed with DNA, right, So now a physical resemblance matters a lot more. At the same time. By the way, his life still stinks. He's forced off the grid because he doesn't have the paperwork and the id that you need to exist in this country. An outfit out of Orlando, a nonprofit called I Dignity get it?

So the guy says, he always said back when he's bk do, he always said he vaguely thought he was from Indianapolis. He felt very certain that he knew his birthday, and he related to Michael Jackson, the King of pop And he also had a couple of other vague spidery sense recollections. C. C. Moore and her company they mentioned DNA detectives. They go through this quite throw process of elimination. Eventually they find a family called the Powells or group of families, and then from there they find a subgroup, a very specific set of Powells, and these Powells are in Lafayette, Indiana. Ultimately, she and her team get to a high school yearbook from nineteen sixty seven in the town and in the book a picture of a guy named William Powell. He is in tenth grade when the picture is taken. He's wearing glasses, he's wearing plaid. You can you can find the picture and it's one of the You know, they're at a weird point here because for a decade people have been looking at this picture Benjamin Kyle and saying, hey, you look kind of like a guy I saw at a waffle house. That's true, that's someone said that. So now they're armed with DNA, right, So now a physical resemblance matters a lot more. At the same time. By the way, his life still stinks. He's forced off the grid because he doesn't have the paperwork and the id that you need to exist in this country. An outfit out of Orlando, a nonprofit called I Dignity get it?

They they are an id ignity.

They they are an id ignity.

You know, it's I dig nitty Nity. So so Nitty hells him out, uh with get with getting a Florida I d And just a month later, it's November twenty first he officially finds out who he was, or who he used to be. Q gat ye his real name, William Burgess Powell. That's a person he used to know.

You know, it's I dig nitty Nity. So so Nitty hells him out, uh with get with getting a Florida I d And just a month later, it's November twenty first he officially finds out who he was, or who he used to be. Q gat ye his real name, William Burgess Powell. That's a person he used to know.

Is that another reference? That's a person that he used to know.