From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of I Heart Radio, Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They call me Ben. We are joined as always with our super producer Paul mission controlled decands. Most importantly, you are you, You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. This is uh. This is a very special episode for us. It's one we've been excited about for a while now. Today we are diving into the culinary world, and as anyone who has ever worked as a chef or as a cook in front of house or more can easily attest, there is an entirely different universe. I'm the kitchen doors. It's it's a world and a reality that most diners and most restaurant patrons never really see. And it should go without saying, but we'll say it. The people in this world are some of the hardest working, most driven individuals on the planet. Today we're getting a firsthand exploration of this world with help from two luminaries of the culinary universe. Hugh Atchison and Richard Blaze, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Guys. What was up? It's a it's really nice to connect with you guys in this video conference. The way we're making this recording happen right now. You both have fabulous looking homes. Oh thank you. Yeah. I I really just have this stove and this cabinet behind me. The rest of the houses and shambles, but this is this is where I do all of my work. Now, well, what else do you need? And these are troubled times, and and let me say, you also both have fabulous voices. And I want to make sure that this our first like what is this a six way uh skype call bunker recording situation? I want to make sure that everyone knows who's who. So if you could each introduce yourselves just so our listeners can track who's talking, that would be amazing. Richard, do you want to want to go first? Hey? Everyone, this is Richard Blaze. And no one has ever said that my voice sounds amazing and coming from you, that is high praise. All right, Hugh, I'm Hugh Atchison. Yes, that's just he's just like he's just some guy named Hugh Atchison. The gravitas of that name and that voice alone, you need you need not say anymore, honestly, where We're all really really happy to have you both, and thank you so much for I think this is our first ever two guests situation on stuff they don't want you to to know. Isn't that right? Because uh, this is yeah, yeah, this this is pretty close. This is new for us too, But you know, we're in a time of new things and innovations. One one thing we wanted to to kick off today's conversation with is uh is the concept of celebrity, right. Uh? You know, many of us in the audience we know you from your we we may know you from your work in television. Uh, and and sometimes there may be people listening today who are um, you know, I like the way you would put it earlier, Matt, who are who are even more familiar with the your television work than they are with maybe the day to day food that you're creating. How how has your notoriety affected your work as chefs? Has it like helped, has it hindered? Has it ever gotten weird? Yeah? I'll jump in, I guess Richard blaze here. Uh, I mean one has it gotten weird? I mean, to be honest, guys, we're on a six way skype on a podcast right now, so yeah, things can get weird when you're a celebrity chef. I think it goes both ways, right, Like, Um, the exposure certainly creates great opportunity, certainly helps putting people in restaurants. At the same time, you know it, it creates a tremendous amount of responsibility. Um, not that you can't live up to all the time to everyone. So I think there's it's a blessing, not much of a curse, but but but certainly there's there's ups and downs to it. Yeah, I mean the celebrity is such a strange I don't think any of us want to color so celebrities. I'm just a guy who cooks. Um, you know, TVs occupied about me, you know, two percent of my working life. Um, probably even less. Uh so you know it. But you know, like like writing a book, it just gives you a bigger footprint, um to you know, get to clients and find customers and have a following. So it definitely helps in a business angle. But it kind of the term kind of makes me cringe. That's that's understandable. It's funny here. I actually knew about you outside of any of your TV work because I lived in Athens, Georgia for many years and knew about your wonderful restaurant five and ten and had many friends that worked for you, and so I knew of you more from your grassroots kind of work. And you really are known as being super hands on and not only you know, cooking and designing menus and creating restaurant concepts, but also in culinary instruction. I actually have seen you do a talk at the local farmers market in front of like, you know, twenty people. It's like a very grassroots thing that you do. And I always really appreciate that about you. And you're all about the d I y kind of ethics of being a chef and all of these design principles. So I just wanted to put that out there. I'm a big, big fan and have known you since you were kind of, you know, doing that stuff in Athens, and and I've always kind of followed you from that part of my life. And you you don't and you doesn't want to say it, but he's obviously a celebrity chef because I can't book the farmers market like they're not coming for me. Well, this this is something I want to get to you guys. Um My first job I ever had was at a private club in Atlanta called the Pimont Driving Club, and it was working, you know, in a kitchen there, and I really thought, this is what I wanted to do. And I know there are a lot of people out there listening who have aspirations of becoming a chef or getting into the industry in some way more so than you know, just serving drinks or food. Um, how what were the pathways you guys took to achieve that? And is there any advice you can give to someone who's looking to to kind of follow in your ways? I mean, I would definitely advise against not going into this business right now, but there's no jobs and there won't be any jobs, and it's gonna be a lot worse. But um, you know, I got into this business because I'm the black sheep of a very academic family and at fifteen I started working in restaurants and I just it was the place where I felt at ease and where it could succeed. And it wasn't at school, and I went to university for a while but dropped out. But all throughout the time, I've just been cooking. And you know, i'd show up when I was sixteen years old working at a French restaurant and be, uh, you know, have fourty year old chefs to be happy that I was. They're working side by side with them. So you give me a sense of inclusion and success. And um, you know, I realized that my strange, um sarcastic personality and things like that, uh, somehow also allowed me to be a good leader and then mix that with empathy and honing in on technique of the years and just reading um, you know, I think it just you know, it's also it's a business, that is It's it's this endless fascination for me because I can learn about food and beverage and hospitality and design every day of my life and never get tired of it. There's so much to learn about food, and so when you find an occupation that that really jazz as you like that every day, it's exciting. And right now, you know, we've all changed jobs in the last month and a half two months. Uh, so that's exciting too, even in even in a crisis situation UM, which is amazing to me that the similarities between running a restaurant which is very crisis and triage oriented anyhow, and then true crisis response UM, because there's a lot of affinities that chefs can bring to the table in that regard to to fix problems quickly. I think it's a really really great point. And I've seen so many restaurants, uh here in Atlanta have to pivot, you know, very quickly to this whole very carefully thought out to go model. Uh. Even Find Dining Restaurants has a brand new restaurant right around the corner for me called Little Bear that just opened right before all this stuff hit, and they have exclusively pivoted to curbside delivery and they do a new menu every week, and you know, you can call in and make your order that morning and you can pick it up that night, and it's like, you know, it's like seventy five bucks, but it's like a spread for your whole family, and it's something very special, and it's been really cool to see them succeed. And obviously they're doing it with more of a skeleton crew than they would have, you know, as a full service restaurant, they were booked out months in advance. It's a really popular spot. But that kind of innovation is really inherent in the scrappiness of being a chef. I mean they call them like brigades, right, like in the French tradition, because it's like you're at war in a certain way, and you have a leader, and you have people that you have to delegate to, and the whole situation is very regimented in that way. Richard, do you do you have us? Can you speak to that a little bit in your experience as to that kind of you know, that that attitude that can do attitude that really leads people in the culinary world to be able to like make snap decisions and really kind of you know, just uh come through in times of stress. Yeah, I mean I love I Actually, I mean I'm gonna borrow what Hugh said there for the future because I mean being you know, every every night of a service of a restaurant, there's some sort of drama or problem that has to be served. I mean almost every you know, other guests or other table has some sort of pivoting moment or situation that has to be off fixed or or solved. And I think that, you know, again, the hospitality industry is sort of built for this, and you know, using the word hospitality, they're like the old sort of adage that the customer is always right, you know, has you know, really is the backbone of you know, being able to consistently have to pivot every you know, seemingly couple of minutes, you know, to make sure that everyone uh is happy. So I mean, I think that that's ingrained in all of us. And I think that's the other side for me, if I if I look at my personal story, you know, why did I fall in love with, you know, cooking and being a chef. It was because it was one place where I could make someone happy right away. I could see it on their face. I could I could see it in their smile, and I got that personal gratification of it. And you know, quite honestly, now we have the ability to, um, you know, turn those tables in a way and make people really happy in moments when they really really needed, like you know, some curbside pickup or whatever it is. You know, that's that's well said, and I think we're hitting on an issue that's very close to everybody's mind right now, you know, as as we're readjusting, as as we're adapting, improvising, And one thing that you both you both hit on that really pricks my ears up is you you both noted like like something always happens right every every service there there's always gonna be something. And that's kind of a point that we we opened with when we said, you know, somebody might go into a restaurant and they might sit down and to them, it seems like this is, uh, super easy. This is like a lazy to bride down a delicious river, you know what I mean, and have no idea of what's going on behind the kitchen doors. So like with this, with this in mind, are there things that that you guys, as chefs and as professionals, wish the average restaurant patron was more aware of? Like what what kind of uh for lack of a better word, what kind of kitchen secrets do do you wish that more diners knew? Well, I want to let you answer this, but I want to just follow up and thank you for the inspiration, because definitely the Willy Wonka Chocolate River to bride will now be created at some point in one of my restaurants. Oh that seems terrifying to me. Are you gonna have the soundtrack? Who we have to I'd say pure imagination is the song. But I don't want you guys have to pay for it? Thanks Paul. That Yeah, I mean there's a lot. Because I'm behind the scene, I think I think it's um. I think the number of people that it takes to really ensure good hospitality and full service is much more than people think. Behind the scenes is usually more people than people think, and the amount of work that goes into it is more. Uh. People always have an assumption that restaurateurs and successful chefs are um are rolling in it, and uh, we're not. It's a very very low margin business and has only gotten lower. And you know, it's a challenging business. But it's when that people do it because they love it, and but it drives some people to bankruptcy and things like that, so it's never easy in that way. I mean, outside of that, I think that people generally understand what people really do need to understand the about restaurants is their satisfaction with the restaurant is really past a certain point. It's really all in the consumer. Um. So if you're a customer, you're going to a restaurant and you're in a crappy mood and you're with your mother in law and a four year old, Um, the chances of me making you abundantly happy and relatively find any restaurant are difficult. You're stuck in the odds against me. Um. So it's not my job. I mean, I can do my job well, but the customer is always so good played too. You know. Richard brought up the customer is always right, and I actually I never I don't really ascribe to that anymore. Um. The customer is always right when they treat us with the respect and we counter with professionalism and empathy and understanding. Uh. And we provide good product um. And we do a good job and it's efficient and timely. Apart from that, if the customer has to complain about that, that's you know that, so we you know. So, I guess I'm just saying it's the customers got some responsibility in this relationship too. Sure, the customer is always right and so they're clearly absolutely wrong. Right. Yeah, Hey, guys, we're gonna pause for just a moment here and check out a word from our sponsor. But we'll be right back, and we're back, let's keep talking with Hugh Atchison and Richard Blaze. All right, I want to jump to something that all of us have been dealing with our whole lives as soon as you hit I guess what you would consider the adulthood marker where you can go out to a grocery store and gather all of the things that you or your family needs, uh to you know, survive for a certain amount of time. You guys, as chefs and restaurateurs, I'm assuming, have spent a lot of time at grocery stores. I I know for sure, Richard, you've been at Whole Foods a whole lot just from the top chef episodes. Uh. But uh, there's you know, when when we as an individual are going into a place to buy procure food that we are going to cook the way you guys would in a restaurant. What do we need to know about where we go? What strategies we use to like do the best for ourselves for a nutrition, for our economics? Like how do you make those decisions? And what should we do well? I think a lot of those decisions. And it's kind of a tricky question because I think a lot of the decisions that a chef will ache is dependent on this skill and the training that they have. So I mean, I'll just throw one out there right away that like, you know, not buying the most expensive cut of meat or the most expensive fish because the market has created or inflated that price. And you know, a braised stew with a piece of meat and some oxtails and bone marrow is probably going to be more delicious and probably the type of food you're gonna get at at a restaurant like Hours anyway. So um, one would be it's dependent on the on the skill of of the of the cook. So kind of tricky. So you might say a little bit, don't buy into the hype necessarily of even a place like Whole Foods, where you know, all of those super pricey cuts of meat are available, and maybe there's a little bit of marketing behind this notion that oh, we can be just like pro chefs by buying this really expensive stuff. Uh and and and really what's most important is maybe educating yourself and upping your basic skill set in the kitchen rather than leaning on buying expensive ingredients, right, yeah, and I would I would say, well, first of all, um, you know, the hype has sustained my career, so let's be careful what we say. But I will say that like one of the things that has been fun and I used that word very carefully during this quarantine has been cooking at home. And you know, I hate to use the top chef word, but doing the Quickfire challenge where you know, I found a package of Sanka behind my dog food been the other day and I don't even know sanka still made instant coffee and a can of tuna and some white beans, and you know, and a piece of celery that clearly should be in the compost bin. And can I make a dish out of that? Can I make it delicious? It's it's kind of been fun in that sort of way, having to use all the ingredients in your house or freezer or cupboard. And that's what good chefs and great chefs like you do. Anyway, what did you do with the Sanka? I love that because that's a coffee connoisseur. I know, I know you enough. My wife made the delaa is it delaanaga? The two ingredient coffee and it kind of went viral. She's got a hundred thousand views on this, you know, to ingredient coffee. It was kind of kind of fun. I just want to I want to say here, Uh, you don't think I missed this because we are in a video call. Uh you start, you've you've got a diagram, but yeah, the only the only moron who brings a visual aid to a podcast. But when you enter into a grocery store, grocery stores are very scientifically uh and economically studied as to what the layout is. Um, you know you're gonna go in. You walk, walk past floral, the first thing I want you to see, it's pretty whatever, and then you go into produce. But the trick is you want to stay on the exterior wall as pretty much as you go around a grocery store. The inner aisles are where the crap is. So if you can stay away from that except for the little scouting supper missions and to go get your olive oil and whatever in your flower, then you're gonna avoid a lot of really what is prepackaged and ingredients that you never should understand or probably shouldn't be adjusting a ton of so stick to the exterior. But also I think the cooking these days, and what I want to you know, really impart to people often is recipes are great. I love following a really good recipe start to finish. But what you really need to do to cook well is get is envision of lego set, and you want twenty pieces. Each piece is a technique and a skill in cooking. Then you can just assemble them in totally different ways each time, so then you're not held hostage to the snapper recipe where you can't find snapper. The snappers thirty two a pound for fill a at Whole Foods, and you can adjust to that and use something else, because really what technique you need to know in that case is how do I properly see your fish? And so we just need to teach America those based sicks again so they can all have their legos at Richard and I just have a lot more lego pieces than most people do. It's not that you know, and we can cobble them together in in different ways, and we look upon things in a very different ways sometimes in food, and that's the exciting part about food. But buying from scratch is kind of key. I mean to me, the fact that it's it's very heartwarming to see the dried bean shelf totally empty, because I'm like, wow, America actually knows how to cook beans. Um. So, you know, I was talking to Hoste Andreas the other day and uh, he was like, you know, in the crisis, I go down to Italy, I give the woman a tin pound bag of lintels and a hammock and she makes food. And he was like, here, you know, they don't do that. And he's got a point, but I think we're we're beating that a little bit right now. Um. So it's kind of exciting to see that. And you know, I still want people to come to restaurants. It's kind of how Richard and I pay our mortgages. But you know, it's it's good that people are learning how to cook from scratch again. Yeah. One of the one of the amazing things has been to just build on that is the absence of flower in every single market, Like I mean even in my household. Yeah, I'm gluten free in soul quarantine and then all rules are gone and I'm We're baking homemade sour dough there's no flower, there's no yeast in the stores, and everyone is, you know, home baking. So what I mean people are not gluten free anymore. I know that some people are, of course, but California isn't. Some people really do have allergies, but the people who claimed f allergies no longer have allergies. There's going there'll be an email coming about that. So that's in the episode of its own. Um, So really quickly, can you tell us how you start with sour do? I know it requires a mother, how do you actually get your hands on a mother and like start the sour do and making process. I mean there's a couple of recipes. At its essence, it's flour and water corrects you Yep, Basically it's grabbing wild yeasts out of the air. So mother is more a kinship with vinegar and said about the silis and or scoobies. Um, this would be referred to as a starter. Um. So once the starter is activated and has grabbed yeast from the air, it's going to grow and expand and at that point it needs to be fed. So it's feeding off of the flower and small additions that you're adding to it. Every day. So if you can get your hands on some flour, you can probably make some sour dough. Yeah. Yeast is running through the air everywhere as we talk. Some people are eastier than others. You can smell it from them. That's That's gonna be my my out of context quote for this episode when when they say Jesus has risen, they he's actually just really easty. There we go. I do have a question to follow up with this. I love that we hit on home cooking because there is a bit of a well, there's definitely resurgence, but dare I say it's getting close to like a renaissance. And there are a lot of people who would you know, ordinarily describe themselves as incapable of boiling water, who have now like gone into their storage or wherever they kept all the all the kitchen stuff they got for their wedding, you know, decades ago, and they're breaking it out and they're you know, getting those cookbooks they always told themselves they were going to read and and they're actually working on this stuff. Um to me, that seems pretty inspiring. There's a lot of mcgeiver inventiveness to it as well. But I was wondering what are some of the things, like when you guys as professionals, are seeing people try their hand at cooking at home, what what are some of the things that you think like they need to know. I'm I'm picturing, you know, I'm picturing like you guys having a camera and someone's kitchen and and being like, oh my god, dude, what are you doing? Are there any things like that in general you think could help people cooking at home. I mean, I guess I can just we can start rattling off a few. I mean, I just did a video making hash browns at home, and it was it's just potatoes and salt and some oil and a hot, hot pan. And there was no trick to it. It wasn't a fancy recipe like you saying, it's more of a technique. It's not a recipe. And people were trying it at home, and you know, d m ing me about that the pan wasn't working, and and really it was, it's not the pan. It's it's it's not the wand it's the magician and it is, you know, just something like letting the pot, letting the pan, letting the oil get hot enough so that whatever you're cooking, it doesn't stick to the pan. It's just the type of thing. Then when you're at home and there's a pan smoking and you're about to set off your uh you know, your your fire alarm, that people freak out a little bit. Whereas when you have the experience of cooking professionally, you know, uh the smoking point of a certain oil and and that you have, you know that the pan is gonna be okay. Um. So little things like that where it's more Again, everyone thinks they need the tool, especially for me being sort of known as a gadget guy. Guess what I haven't done in the last thirty days. I haven't cooked suvied. I haven't used any liquid nitrogen yet. And if it, if I do, it will be for the zombies. It won't be an ingredient in a recipe. It will be to disintegrate all the zombies. Uh. So, I think some of it is just experience, But now people are getting that experience and I'll send it over to you, Hugh. Yeah, I mean I think that people are they're coming. America's is really intrigued with food right now. They're trying. I call it it's the rise of the Alison Roman Empire. And I think that it's good, But I mean, Americans are still more ons when it comes to food. I remember when I published my first book, I did a like a pair upside down cake and so it colls for like four eggs in the batter, and I remember having somebody like hand write me a postcard saying it was good, but the egg shells were a little weird. To get around what I mean, like people like it's like this is why, this is why it's so important to have magicians like you guys amongst us who can provide I don't think that's a magician. But I guess what I mean is I think you know, no matter how difficult our situation that you guys are going through, that the restaurant industry is going through, in the hospitality industry in general is going through, I don't think we're ever gonna lose that need for for people with your skills. And I guess I was listening to an episode of The Passenger Hugh where you were talking with Chris Wilkins of Root Baking Company here in Atlanta, and my goodness, dude, I mean the reality of our situation that you laid out with him was um, heart wrenching just from somebody who loves food and has enough means to every once in a while eat at a restaurant at of the caliber that you guys, you know, the food that you guys create. Um, I guess what I'm I'm what I'm trying to understand is do you think there's a version of this the way it plays out, that innovation plays a huge role for people like you to still be able to get food to consumers and make a living in just maybe a different way. Yeah, I mean there is, But I worry that that is so shallow and basic and and it loses some core aspect to what I think is most important about true restaurants, which is hospitality. I mean, but we saw this coming before this. I mean, Richard can attest to this too. I Mean, they're their flaws in the logic of fine dining and what we do every day is and we see it on the bottom line, and and that's been you know, when we see the sweet greenification of America. Um, it's kind of terrifying to a lot of us. As Chef says to is is that really where we're moving towards? Because I don't want to go there. It just really quickly In case anyone doesn't know, you're talking about Sweet Green is like a kind of like sort of Chipotle health food kind of chain that's like in California, right, is that we're referring to. Yeah, and I'm I'm they started in Philadelphia and the gunned everywhere now. But and I'm not dissing them. I think they provide a good service and it's a good product in the in the end, it's just what it lacks for me is service. Um It. It lacks the idea of a chef coming up with an inspired dish and nailing it and you know, really impressing that way. So we can come up with a lot of different ways to do really great to go food and stuff like that, as you know, giving people options of restaurant caliber meals to have in their home. It's I just don't want that to be everything we do anymore. Um But I'm also terrified that American consumers are not going to want to come and gather around the bar. Yeah, I mean it kind of uh has created I think the big the big issue is that you know, one the restaurants and food everyone everyone's a consumer of food, right, so that that's the beauty of the business. Um. And what we're finding right now is the the ultimate issue is that it's it's it's one business that can't go one percent digital, right, it can't go one online. You physically need to have something in front of you need to put it in your body. Um. So, I mean I think that's the massive challenge. But what you was saying already already is like this has already been happening third party delivery services for some of my places where you know, thirty of specific locations business already. So in one way, we've seen this coming, you know, third party delivery, pick up to go uh fast, casual food and quite honestly, through the last you know, you know, horrendous moments. You know, after nine eleven, people had to adapt. Fine dining took a massive hit two thousand and eight. I think that's when the single subject um, you know, restaurant was was sort of born after that. So I think this is going to create something. I'm kind of excited, although it's going to be a challenge. What I agree with you is I'm kind of excited for at least the challenge of you know, can you create some sort of restaurant experience perhaps at home and you know it's never going to be the same. Um, But the challenge itself I find somewhat um inspiring just kind of dawned on me. It's like some of those meal prep services like Blue Apron, which you know, I think is a if it interesting idea, It's like, hey, watch out, watch out their sponsor. To the point of what I was saying earlier about not buying the hype and then don't want to put any of you guys, is a livelihood at risk. It's to hilarious that Blue Apron and all those meal prep service sponsor literally every podcast I know, I know, but let it, let it fire. I want to hear what. I want to know where you're coming from. I think Blue Apron and groups like that we're becoming untenable. Uh before this, Now that you know, they're probably the happiest companies in the pandemic economy other than three m zoom. Um. So it's it's it's interesting to see how long that's gonna last. Um Yeah, I don't know, I mean, what what is this is going to completely change our industry? Um? And I mean, well, I'll come back. I mean we'll we'll be okay. I'm not worried about reopening. I'm worried about six months after reopening, when the landlords still trying to lean on me because he wants to do a slight uptick and rent and I'm like, dude, we're doing six of what we did last year. You can't raise the round on me because there's nobody who's gonna open up a restaurant here. Um. So you know, I think we are empowered right now. UM, because you know what I used to hate when bosses would ever say this to me is became true, which is, um, I you know, landlords need me right now. They need me, so they have to make me happier. That's really important. UM. But it used to be like like bad boss as well, there's ten other people behind you for the job. It's like, well, that's actually gonna be true right now. No, it's really true. Actually heard an interview on NPR today about um, a property owner, commercial real estate owner whose tenants who are business owners are not able to pay rent right now, and he's like, Okay, that's that's how it's gonna be. I get it. I support you. I'm not going to collect rent this month. But then he in turn went to his bank and the bank isn't giving him a break. You know, the bank isn't passing on that too. I'm I'm not it's it's a it's it's everyone's getting hit. But it's fascinating to see how this is going to play out because eventually the banks are going to have to play nice. It's just inevitable. Like ill, what's what's the alternative? I don't understand. You know, if future where the bank's hardline everybody and close every thing down, you know, the world. Maybe maybe I'm being naive. I'm interested as business owners, what you guys think about how that aspect plays out? Well, I mean that aspect is really interesting. I'm glad you're speaking as a lobbyist for developers and landlords of the world. That's me. You have to realize that, like our our bottom line on profitability UH is a lot lower than landlords and developers. Um. So there, I just think there's this needs to be a give and take. Um We've filled their coffers, We've filled their buildings with aspiring businesses that employ people and do well. You know they need us and now more than ever, and I think that they have to pony up and be willing. I'm gonna lose some skin in this. I want to see them lose some skin and then I hope but I didn't misrepresent That's That's really what my point was is that eventually even the banks are going to have to lose some skin. Everyone's gonna have to kind of get on board with this chain of events. You know, the banks can't hardline everybody, the real the property owners can't hardline everybody. Eventually, everybody in this chain has to kind of be like, Okay, we're in this together. How can we kind of prop each other up and and help each other out. I think the one really good thing we've talked about before on on an episode here, the really good thing that we have here, I think for humanity as a whole, is that we do have a you know, in this scenario, a common enemy that happens to be a microbe you know, or you know, a a a thing that is smaller than you would be able to see with a microscope, and it's affecting all of us, and it does feel like the only way out of all of This is a tremendous amount of empathy, which I think we, you know, as a world, as a species, we could certainly use a ton more of. And this is actually a way to hopefully foster more of that. And if you know, and if we can as you that, then we won't have a major problem with the banks because they're compounding interest anyway, so we'll be okay. Maybe Now the great part I wish this was I wish this was a visual podcast because that was that was a fantastic but thank you for that Kumbaya moment. Um. I I yeah, we do. We do have a common enemy in this, in this in COVID and uh, we have a common enemy, um at least fifty four percent of US and the black luster president of the United States. But um, I don't know. I mean, I want to see empathy. I want to see compassion. I want to see patients and people I don't always see it. Um. I've seen some people angry driving around and stuff like that, and I just want to be like we mellow though out. Um they're driving around angry. Yeah, yeah, I know you should be home. What are they doing inside? Idiots? I've been driving around a lot because I've been doing meals for World Central Kitchen every day. So I borrowed a van and drive around to a needy organizations and athens and drop off food. So I see a lot of stuff going around. That's something that's key. Uh, And I'm really glad we're getting to this part of of the conversation because one thing that we've seen here in the US and abroad has been uh. This this not just like a repurposing from a business perspective in the way we're talking about earlier, but a repurposing for community support. Now to a degree, the stereotype about the American South is very true. Horrible things will happen here, but you're not gonna go hungry because everybody is always going to be like trying to help you, like throw food at you wherever you go. And And what what astounded me recently here in the South, but in the rest of the world as well, is seeing these these initiatives that kind of grew organically but so quickly. Where where people are, you know, doing what you're describing you, They're they're saying, let's let's make sure that people who are elderly or immuno compromised and can't get outside, have you know, if not some sort of human interaction, they have something to eat. And it made me, it made me think about how intertwined food is, uh with community outreach. This sort of to your point Richard where he said, you know everybody is a consumer of this. Uh, what are some like community outreach things that that you guys have seen that you know that that I don't want to be to like Pollyanna or optimistic or naive about it, but what are some things that you've seen or you've participated in that have inspired you in this current situation? Yeah, I mean from yes, I mean, everything's been well documented, but it's the um you know, feeding and cooking for restaurant workers and employees. UM, you know, sending um you know food you know, to hospitals to take care of healthcare workers. UM. You know Hugh mentioned earlier jose Andres and you know, um the support that I've even received on my platform to get donations to World Central Kitchen. Um you know, I mean that's what again, you know, cooks and chefs. Because what we're trying to do each and every day when we're not at a crisis is just make people happy. You know, we sort of turn that up, you know, a couple of levels when when we have to, you know, bring someone joy and and and good food and hospitality can do that. Okay, we'll be right back after a quick word from our sponsor and then more with Richard and Hugh. Okay, we're back. Let's get right back into it with Richard and Hugh. Can we switch gears for a second. Yes, Richard, you said the phrase quickfire, and uh, I have always had a question because of the three guys here, We've we've been on set before for various things, and you know, I'm I'm I've always had a question about cooking shows. So I'm gonna use Top Chefs as an example. But just because you guys have both had experience being on that show in various capacities, UM, I think you could probably insert any competitive cooking show into this for this question. But generally you will see a segment where there are contestants chefs cooking their hearts out for you know, an elongated period of time, and then afterwards there's a whole different camera set up. There's a whole different like feeling and area where we're shooting is happening. I know for a fact that that takes a long time to get right and to continue moving to shoot something like that. How do you keep that food that was just cooked furiously by these chefs? How do you keep the integrity of that food moving over to some other place and then kind of sitting out and waiting as you go down the line of you know, judges judging that food. I mean, it's you know, there is we are not as a judge. You know, you're not judging food on temperature. Usually, temperature is the one thing that everyone is although different shows are a little bit different, that temperature is the one thing that everyone is uh understanding that, hey, this is not at its optimumal temperature right now. Um, So I think that's where you're going with that. Um, you know, people understand that it might have been you know, five minutes or ten minutes or fifteen minutes that the food or their plate um sat there before it was judged, and um, you know that can affect also the the inside baseball scoop there is you know, as a cook and a chef, we know that, uh, you know, taste changes when something's hot or when something's cold. So knowing that or knowing that the type of food to cook can sometimes become an advantage, you know. I mean there's lots of contestants, um, you know, myself included probably who know that, like, oh well, a a very cold you know, rab seafood dish might be a good thing to serve right off the bat because it's going to be cold. Their judges are gonna taste at first, it's gonna have high acidity. It's gonna sort of, you know, affect the palette of what that judge tastes after this dish. Um. So hopefully I'm not diving too deep into the game right there. But as a judge, we all sort of understand that, hey, um, you know, temperature isn't to be considered most of the time. Yeah, I mean, I'll, i'll, I'll say more at him. Don't work with the show anymore? Uh, neither do I Quick for a challenge starts and then it stops, and then they read everybody rules and they reset cameras, and that that type of thing happens all the time. There's other strategy has involved. Richard's actually got a classic strategy which I don't I've picked top on, but I don't know if anybody else does. I don't even know if it's his strategy on his point, but in a in a scenario where we're cooking for a lot of people and they each have to approach us for that taste of whatever we're doing, and then they're going to vote on mass later on. Um, I'm always of the mindset that, like, I just want to get as much as possible. Richard not so much because you're never told how many you have to serve. So Richard slow roles. He'll put one played up, another minute, another play up. See, I've got twenty in front of me. I'm just like pushing it out, going crazy, and he's like he's exhaling, he's fine, deep breaths them and he's just slow roll. Yeah, I'm the Houston Astros of Top Chef. That's what we're getting to, right. Well, that kind of thing is just so interesting to me when you're thinking about trying to make a television show and put out great food. That to he is always interesting just how you actually manage the food itself. No, I mean he was breaking down A big part of the show is that, you know, Um, he was an amazing chef who cooks and restaurants, and so you have to sort of break yourself away from maybe the type of chef you are in your restaurant versus the type of chef you are on whatever show it is that you're cooking. Because you're saying this right now, like, Hey, there's people at this event. I want to feed all of them. I want to get them food. I want to make them all happy. Quite honestly, I could care about the three sound bites of the three people who don't like it. I only care about the four judges that are rolling up to me in this contest, and I'm going to pay very special care to, uh, you know, these four six little bites. So it goes deeper than even what you suggesting. Not only do I slow roll it, but I preserve the four six little bites for uh, the most important people at the most important time. I have always wondered, you know, in these shows where so much dramas created by the clock and the countdown and like oh no, I have to redo my batter or whatever all of that stuff. Is this an accurate time line that we're seeing, like as a viewer, like, is it pretty preserved? Or are there moments where they cheated a little bit and stop the clock and that gets cut out like it's it's generally pretty accurate. They get to realize, like the dramas created in edits. It's there's so many different perspectives, you know. I mean, a show like Top Chef has like probably eight cameras going. You're filming much longer than the you know whatever the forty two minutes of television is for an episode. So they've got, you know, eighteen hours of tape that they're whittling down to forty two minutes. And their angle is they want to find drama, they want to find humor, they want to find mistakes, they want to find burning, you know, completely botched scenarios. Uh, they live for that, Richard. We're trying to watch your face. Yeah, I mean I just feel like you thinks I'm a company man now, That's what all the facial expressions not up. But I've just always been known for being totally irreverent and not giving. Is so fair enough, But you is right, you know, the timing specifically on light Top Chef, it's legitimate and like you can jump cut and put some music drop in anything to make it seem pretty dramatic, But I have hosted baking shows where it gets really exciting because you have to make a time announcement that's like, alright, bakers, you have six hours left, and and you're like, what, like, there's not even started my starter yet, right right, I'm just gonna go walk over to the flower now, and like, you know, if you put the right music on it, that's that's that's that's dramatic. There we go. So when when we're on this point, you know, I do think it's something that a lot of our fellow listeners have always suspected and are probably grateful to get, like some firsthand information, as you said, Richard, a little bit of inside baseball on some of these things, because it's it goes to a larger point, like it's fascinating the way that in edits like you mentioned he is. It's it's fascinating the way that reality can be altered for for broadcast, you know. And I'll say even sometimes on podcast we see this, right, and podcasts are often like like in all of our podcasts, we're we're pretty sincere and we're ultimately trying to to edge. Uh god, I feel so cornball say, but we're trying to educate, right at some point, And um, I just I don't think it changes anybody's enjoyment of shows. And I have a personal story. You guys remember the original Iron Chef, but the guy like snaff the bell pepper, and he's got this weird, complicated backstory about why he's making people cooked with Nato and stuff. The chairmans Is that the Chairman? Yes, yeah, are you gonna talk about the Chairman's son. Yeah, that's Iron Chef America, right, But that guy, he's an actor. Dude, I thought he was really the Chairman's son. He was a double dragon. That's my story. I would saying, like the the original Iron Chef, I grew up thinking that it was totally this, that there was this like Bond culinary supervillain who who for some reason was driven to these extreme lengths. And uh, you know, I wish I still thought that, Like I didn't, I had no stopping you. You can still believe in it, like it's okay, like it's it's believe whatever makes you feel good, especially in these times. The Chairman is real. My my my belief was even one step of moved from years because you're talking about the Original Chairman. I didn't even know anything about him. I just knew the son of the Chairman, and I thought he was real, and then I and then and then I realized he was Billy from the Double Dragon movies. But you're saying the Original Chairman is also some kind of some kind of actor. No, I've I've I've done a complete one eight h Richard. You inspired me with your advice. I'm choosing to believe it's legit, it's real. Uh, it's happening. Uh. And you know what, there was a brief Iron Chef America thing on TBS. I believe where in William Shatner was the was the main guy? Now that one I didn't fall for, although I've known private chefs that have cooked for Shatner and you're not that far off. This is what I want to get to. This is what Yes, Yes, this is what I want to get to. Well, we had John Hodgem on the show a little while ago, and he told us about having dinner at a secret society. Um, oh where was it? What was it called the Snake Snake? Yeah, booking Snake secret Society. Have you guys ever found your show? You found yourselves either cooking for or eating at in a very strange place, in a very strange world that you didn't expect that nobody else could really get in there unless you were you have you got down with the illuminati. I think that what I'm asking, I'm just asking like something strange that would be um just interesting. Mm hmmm. I have never been invited to the ort a loon party, although I've heard of these, you know, the ortalon the small little blood that yeah, okay, I don't know this. Uh man, you you don't have to do some research. You guys are the experts in research. But it's a tiny bird that you're not allowed to eat. That from what I've heard and maybe seen once, uh, people eat and cherish and they basically eat it's a very small bird and they eat the whole bird in one bite, and they put a napkin over their head while they're doing it. So there's a specific, incredible ritual that maybe I have seen once when I cracked a door open that I shouldn't have in a French restaurant. Whoa, there you go, there you go, Yeah, the the napkin over the head. Um if if I've if if the stuff I've read is to be believed is to hide your shame from God, because it's such a decadent act to eat this tiny bird, and it's really it to be something that only the the bougie can enjoy, and it is in fact illegal now, but it is something that was very popular, I believe during the Renaissance, if I'm not mistaken, or at least that's kind of when it started. It's a hydr sin from God so that you don't have to live in shame. That's right, that's right. That makes more sense, Hugh. How about you any any any crazy um behind the curtain glances that you know, weird high society banquets or any strange stuff that you've happened upon and catering or even just like you know, guess at your restaurant without naming names. Just give us a little taste. No, I mean not really. I don't know. Maybe I just leave it a boring existence, but no, it's not really juice. And I wouldn't tell you. You had to have at least served Michael Stipe before. Can we at least assume that that's the case. Yes, okay, great, but he's never done anything weird. He's not a weird guy. He's really nice and pleasant and I've seen him. I've seen him around town multiple times. Lovely, lovely guy. Well, guys, I think we're we're wrapping up here. Um is there? So both of you have podcasts out that are that are pretty new. Uh, you you've got The Passenger. Can you tell us a little bit about what's going on with that show right now? And uh, just what what it is? It's a travel show, so it's not hiatus um because nobody's traveling. Nobody wants to hear about traveling. Uh, it's a show just a bad places I go and what I see and what I do and where you should go when you get there. It's like just discovering that every place you go has this heartbeat that you want to find. And just I'm I'm your tour guide. I would just say it's it's it's better than you is selling it right now. It's a great show. I've listened to the episodes. Now you've got that's a classic restaurant ory. Then you under promise and over deliver. He does it all the time. I work with this guy. It's amazing. Podcast food is amazing. I would just say specifically, because you're listening to this show, I would recommend listening to the most There are two most recent episodes of The Passenger, just because it is a a very serious look at what the restaurant industry faces right now. Um but but just keeping in mind that there are some good things out there too. But Hugh, I think you might be able to tell from this episode, Hugh, and I don't need to mean to speak out of turn, but you your outlook is a little bleak, but it's but it's very straightforward. It's it's an honest uh negative. I think that's what we need, that we need, we need um here, Well, you know there's this thing I uh I learned about recently. Uh someone said, I'm so tired of all this toxic positivity. Sometimes it's okay to just be angry about something and that you know that that hit me. That stayed with me almost as much as my uh my ill fated appearance on your podcast, Richard Food Court with Richard Blaze. You know, it's a fantastic it's a fantastic show. Uh uh. Pal Noel and I had had a lot of fun. We were able to preserve our relationship, but there were moments where our our friendship was in some dire straits over our profoundly personal feelings. What what is food Court? Richard? Yes, food Court is my new podcast that at one point recently hit number twenty four in the comedy category. I wait, I we, I waited for some studio applause like you can, guys, Hopefully we'll put it in pose. There you go, there you go. And Food Court is where we take celebrities like yourselves, chefs, actors, writers, comedians, and they come on and they debate some serious, hard hitting food pics like you guys did, like what's better bacon or sausage flour tortillas versus corn tortillas. So real, heavy, heavy hitting, serious topics get debated on Food Court. And then at the end, of course, I make a decision that most people disagree with, and that is the general assessment of the show. But we are having fun doing it, and uh, thank you so much for being a part of it. Hugh. We gotta get you on the on the on the on the on the on an episode. You know what, I I've put my hat in with your producer to to be on the show because I like happened in on a recording a little while back that you're making and I so badly want to be on the show too. It's a lot of fun. Ben Ben says ill faded, but everyone that I've talked to says they think he made a better argument. I think it's just he you know, we did sauce IgE sausage and he was bacon, and I think I swayed Judge Blaze with the idea that sausage is more um adaptable, or it's more variety and sauceage than there is with bacon. I think that was kind of what the kicker was. But Ben, you gave me an absolute run for my money, and I did not think I was going to emerge Victoria, So I wouldn't look at it as a as a negative thing at all. And I'll be honest. I'll be honest. Man said he was siding with you the whole time. So just it was the It was the tough Fick verdict that I had to deliver because you guys with your background and experience come in with information like most of my guests are just shooting from the hip, and you guys came in with actual facts. And I think the next time you come on the show, you need to argue as a team, and we need to bring in another celebrity duo or trio to go up against you. Guys. Oh wow, I would love that. Can we do Simon Majundar. I just saw you had him recently, and I've always found him to be delightfully prickly. I would love to go head to head with that guy. He has even more so now because if you go to his Instagram page, he's not shaving during quarantine, so he's a bald man who now has lots of hair. I'm doing the I'm doing the safe thing, actually, guys, I was. I was. I'm at the stage now where I'm impressed when I hop on a call or something like. One of the first things I noticed when Hugh and Matt popped up on the video call, I was like, Wow, these guys are still shaving. They've got there together. Man, I need to like I heard that it was safer. That's all. That's all it is supposed to be. But I think I'm gonna be coming out of this looking like a character from the Old Testament. You look like a really cool college math professor, thanks. Guys, like, everyone, stand on your desk. Okay, throw the textbook away. He's got the Doctor Manhattan background. Though, if you stand up and you've got a blue penis dangling in front of you, this is weird. We've had a lot of fun on this episode, but we do know that there are a lot of people out there who you know, are not able to work in a restaurant right now and and make the money they used to make. So we just want to put this out there that the National Restaurant Association Educational Foundation has set up something called the Restaurant Employee Relief Fund. UH. It's it's something that you can both donate to and hopefully benefit from if you are having that experience right now and and having some hardship in the wake of the coronavirus disease. Um, you can go to r e F dot us to both donate and or seek assistance there, and we recommend you do that now if possible. Please donate if you can. I know we are going to be doing that here on our end um, and if you do need assistance, that's a good place to go. Are there any other things you guys want to shout out here? At the end. You know, all I would say is just remember, you know, I'll try to use a culinary sort of analogy here, but like the forest burns down every once in a while, and usually after that moral's grow and like, we are going to get through this, like you mentioned during our conversation, like things are going to come back. It's going to be different, but we will get through this, and we will get through it together. Yeah, I'm more of the burning of forest down myself right now. But um I I think that people just need to realize it's it's not that a lot of us won't have trouble reopening. It's that a lot of this industry is gonna have a lot of trouble six months down the line after reopening unless consumers really make a good effort to to do what they always have loved doing, which is going out and eating good food. One way or another, you're gonna get it. There's gonna be ways to get it. We're gonna come up with those ways in a safe environment, and we just need your buy in as eaters. You know, here I heard a great perspective today about how that's really the case for this notion of reopening the country, reopening the economy. You can't just flip a switch. It's about people and there buy in in general, whether it's spending money, whether it's going to restaurants, whether it's going to ball games or movies or concerts. Again, it's all about when are people gonna be you know, comfortable enough to to resume that. It's not about what the President says. You can't make people, you know, just magically rejoined life the way it used to be. So there's gonna be like a kind of a pendulum swing. It's certainly not going to be like a rebound. But um, I think, you know, cautious I I try to take the pre sance of cautious optimism. Um, I'm ready for that switch to be flipped. And I know that I'll you know, be out there doing those things. But it's gonna be interesting to see. We want to thank you guys, Thank you Hugh, thank you Richard so much for your time today. Um. I you know, I don't know about our fellow listeners, Nol Matt, but I learned a lot of stuff that that I didn't know, um, which is, you know, that's a very low bar. So nobody get a real big head about that. It's easy for me to learn new things. Uh, and we are going to we're going to call it a day. But just because this episode is over, it doesn't mean the show is over. You can find Hugh and Richard online. You can learn more about their work. You can find their new podcasts that we've talked about. Do check them out. We're we're not recommending them just because we're we're friends with these guys. These are fantastic shows and a lot of work has gone into them, So check them out. Let us know what you think. They're available now wherever you find your podcast. In the meantime, you can find us in the usual places where uh, we're all over this, uh, this internet thing. We think it's a fad that's going to uh going to really take off in a few years. So we're on Facebook, we're on Instagram, we're on Twitter. Uh we lost our Pinterest account. Yeah, sorry about that. That was my fault, guys. I was inappropriately posting some things about magic, the gathering the right thing. Yeah, that's fine. Um, you can find us on all those places where conspiracy stuff or conspiracy stuff show. Uh, if you can call us right now, if you want to. Our number is one eight three three st d w y t K. You can leave us a message you might get on the air, or maybe you'll just send a message to us and we'll get to listen to it. You might get a call back from me. I'm kind of bored at night sometimes time, so we'll see how that plays out. Right right before we end here, are there any do you guys have any open restaurants that are doing any kind of delivery or to go or anything right now that we could support or that people would want to support, that you would want to call out. Yeah, people, people in southern California and the San Diego area can support Juniper and Ivy, which is doing a weekly menu and curbside pickup, as well as a couple of locations of Crackshack in San Diego and Orange County, California as well. Me no, just do any emergency food. Please support those restaurants if you can, and uh in any restaurant really like you know where My family is trying to do take out as much as we can afford right now, just to support our local businesses. I just recommend trying to do it as much as you can to uh. If you don't want to contact us, you don't want to do that stuff, you can always send us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.