From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of I Heart Gradios How Stuff Works. Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is all. They call me Ben. We are joined as always with our super producer Paul Mission Controlled Decade. Most importantly, you are you, You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Today, we are delving into a concept that is going to be familiar to many of our fellow listeners because it is a universal thing. Like all human beings, regardless of who they are, where they are in life, have at some point contemplated the concept of the great beyond right? Why is what is beyond this mortal veil? What is? Why? Is every culture filled with familiar stories of spirits, non corporeal forces. The concepts alone of being able to recognize our own mortality is one of the primary things that separates us from all other organic life of which we know currently true. Yeah, there's even an entire discipline dedicated to this thanatology. Uh this, and there's a there's there are many ancient dusty homes. We can read about this today, though we wanted to take a very different tact as as you know, folks, we always are fans of going to the source of some sort of knowledge whatt firsthand experience when possible, and that's why we're very fortunate today Today we are joined in our exploration beyond this mortal Veil with Julie Reagor and Brenda Via, the host of one of our newest peer podcast, Insider's Guide to the Other Side. Now you may recognize Julie as the author of The Ghost Photographer and Brenda as a well known practicing medium. Thank you so much for joining us on the show today. Hey Ben, I mean hey, they call you Ben. Hi, y'all. It's great to be here. So that was in order. That was Julie and then Brenda does everybody knows? So first things first? Could could you all tell us a little bit about your own personal journeys. Julie, this is something that you speak about in your book The Ghost Photographer. What what led you personally? Um? What inspired you perhaps is a better word to begin this exploration of of things that we would call things that we would call beyond the pale beyond the mortal veil, you know it death, But people died on they all died, and and I was so profoundly sad. And I think that because of that I to open up. I was a bit of a skeptic, to be perfectly frank about all of these witchy things. And I think that during well, because of this, I had to shed, you know, everything I thought existed or was to open up to something else. And once I was able to do that, I let everything in. I literally opened the door. And so mine was you know, later in life. I mean I was like forty one. When I I wasn't born. The only gift I was born with was hand eye coordination. So I can play mean golf game and I can win at Carney games like nobody's business. But I wasn't born with a gift of being able to communicate with the other side or even thinking about the other side. And Brenda, what about you? Um, well, actually, maybe we've jumped the gun here tell us tell us what in Insider's Guide to the Other Side is what tell us about the show. The show is real fun. So the show is um we get to share our experiences of what some people they don't believe in, but they can't help but be curious about. Right, We're always drawn to movies and books and stories of the unseen world, and we're always curious about it. And the truth is, if you've ever spoken to anyone who's lost someone they adored or we're really connected to, or if you're you're in that situation yourself where you've lost someone, you can feel them and you may even tell yourself like, I'm just making that up, or I just want them to be there. I'm so desperate for their presence in my life. I just create that experience. But the truth is everyone has that experience, and it could be just a one time, a one off, or that spirit is always their presence is always there guiding you, even though they're not embodied anymore. Right, They've moved on, they've passed on, they've died, however you want to say it. So we have all had that experience. So we just get to open up and share our stories of the other side. I think for me the show is, you know, I was I was able to work through some really heavy things in my life. You know, we all go through those those moments, those kind of seasons if you will. And I had a really I had, I'd have like a two year winter period and and it was Brenda was the one who really taught me and helped me to move out of it. And so to me, the show is actually so everybody can experience Brenda. So I men give the wisdom and to understand what a lot of this is and and and to know how to access it, to trust in who you are and what you are, and to empower and if you don't believe it, fine, go listen to something else. Um. But it's it's it's it's like a an entertaining Well I say entertaining because I think I'm money, but it's an entertaining um uh, like school, right, because we talk a lot on our show about earth. School is hard and because that's what we're in. You know, being in a body is hard, and so we want to make it easier for people. So it's both entertaining and a little teaching and storytelling woven in. So I have a quick question about just the dynamic between you two and how you kind of came to to meet one another. Um. So you know it sounds to me, Julie, you were sort of drawn to Brenda, like, what was that experience like? And what kind of roles do each of you play in two sides of this coin that that is your show and your relationship. Really have you ever seen the movie The Heat with Sandy Bullock and Melissa McCarthy. Yeah, okay, that's us. I have an on Sandy. I'm the other one, you know. I think, what's so far? We are in so many ways an odd couple, but it's it's not how we started. I mean, we really like our relationships start it through very dear friends that we share. And I met Brenda at the best time, which felt like the worst time, which was this you know, very long winter, and she just said, which I don't remember, she had to remind me, um, that it doesn't have to be this hard. And that's how it all began. It began with those words, it doesn't have to be this hard. Julie was a deep in deep, deep grief. And you if you've been there, and it doesn't have to be through losing someone. It can be through heartbreak or disappointment or whatever challenge in earth school you know that got you to the place where you're just buried in grieving either a person or a dream or whatever it is. You can't even see what's in front of you. You can't see the gifts, you can't see options. You're just so buried in that space of pain and loss and grief. And so I was literally standing next to her, looking at the friends who introduced us and saying, I was staying behind her and saying, to our dear friend, Reuben, is this something we can talk to her about? And because Reuben and I have known each other for twenties some years, and so I'm like, is she open? And He's like, I don't know, because between Julian Ruben, they had never gone through this territory before in their friendship, so he didn't know if she would be open. And the last thing you need when you're grieving is like someone who says I'm a medium and I can help you and everything's going to be fine. Like that's just so rude, right, And so you just to know a medium, working with a medium doesn't replace grieving. You still have to grieve. What happens, though, is that you can begin to heal um even further after you've gone through the depths of the grieving, and says Okay, now what do I need to know? How can I learn about the other options than the one I know here on Earth? School? And then I started to stalk her because I believe that stalking is possibly the greatest compliment that you can pay someone nice. So I started to stop her and she can't get rid of me. I'm a little bit like the clap or actually, okay, I guess called herpies. Now, I don't know. My mom used to say that. She used to use the chart to say, they're like the clap. You can't ever get rid of them. You think they're gone, but they keep coming back. Well, that's me too. In Brenda's world, he was crazy. So she was my teacher and I was her um student, and we still really, I mean, we still kind of play that way to be real, frank. And and then I brought her into my world, and my world um is insane. And I was the president, Chief Data Strategists and head of Media twenty century Fox, possibly the longest corporate titles someone has ever held. And right, that's a long title. I'm more wowing at the position, but the title is great too. Oh oh, I'm more I'm more awe and awe with them. How many words I had to spell um because I did grow up in Oklahoma and spelling is not are is not. Like one of our guests, what was the acronym we love those on this show. Oh oh wow, I don't know, I think I ever did that. Okay, we'll work on that later. Acronym. We'll get you on that. UM. And so I so I brought Brendan to into my world, and so our world's kind of you know, it's funny because we are so incredibly different in so many ways, but our heart is in the exact same place. And I think that that's what allows us to do the show, because we might go at things from a different way. And I think that, you know, Brenda, Brenda's reminded how contrarian I am UM every day of her life. And it's very entertaining. Well right, you know, it makes you think or not, it makes you frustrated, but um in laugh a lot. But I think that because our hearts in the same place, and because what we want to do in this world, and I think Brenda's always want to do this in her life and this is more of a new thing for me, which is to serve right is to help and to and if part of that is telling our stories and explaining things to people, um fearlessly, then that's that's what we set out to do. And this draws us immediately to uh, some things that I think are on on the minds of our fellow listeners today. We often hear words like psychic thrown around, you know, in any any number of um, any any number of conversations. We see it in fiction, we see it in documentaries. Uh it's it's a word that is very well known to people, but it also uh it also could benefit from definition. One of the questions that the three of us were wondering immediately when we were doing some some pre digging into into this conversation is we were wondering, if you could tell us the stories of your earliest, for lack of a better word, your earliest psychic experience, or is there is there one that stands out in your mind as particularly impactful, as something you know that was that was a pivot point in your personal life, And we would love to hear about that, uh, in from from a first hand perspective. So Ben, I'm going to kick that one to Brenda, but really quickly I just want to say is that I think one of the problems that we have with the words psychic is that it's so closely related, like a kissing cousin to the word psychotic. And I'm not kidding. I actually think there's a problem. I think there's an association with it and uh and I think that I think that gets us in trouble sometimes. So let's make up new words. You guys like to do stuff like that. It's true, it's true, and that's I think that's something that we have dealt with two on on our end in our own explorations, because we have discovered, you know, words and phrases can be so powerful for good or for ill, and often, you know, we forget as a species to do to do a real critical check and examination where we hear words get thrown around. So what do you say, guys, let's let's think of let's let's think of some alternative to that as we continue today. Well, I'm going to jump in I'm going to jump in here and say, you guys, save save you some some footage here. So the technical definition of the word psychic means someone who is able to pick up information from the etheric layer in the energy field, and the etheric layers the first layer, so it's the most dense layer. It's a light blue grid. It's supercharged. It carries all kinds of information. And that is the definition of a psychic versus a medium, which I believe is where we were going next, um and that as psychic is someone who works more specifically with a guide or a portal or something some energy source on the other side, where you don't just download information without a firewall, but there's some sort of energetic support from the other side that says we're going to work specifically through this portal. So that's a medium. Is that helpful or does that other questions? It was helpful for me if that counts. I'm just gonna say that was a really good friend and that really helped me out a lot, because it's just I went, oh my god, I just organized all of my stories into two categories. Yes, that's and that's the difference. Let's pause for a moment here and we'll be back after a word from our sponsor. I want to jump into this. Okay, we got a portal. There's a portal working. Now, there is a portal of the is the portal something that is opened up from either side or is it a you know, you need to have that one to one connection with someone with some other part beyond the veil in order to make that connection, or could you just open one? So, first of all, it is my experience moving through the world that everyone is born psychic. Everyone has one woo woo story somewhere buried in their past, and all you have to do is mentioned that you're a psychic, and they come flying forward to tell you, Oh my god, did I tell you what happened? Once? Did I ever tell you this? You're the only person I've ever told this to write. So I'm telling you everyone has a story where they had a breakthrough from the other side. Now that doesn't necessarily mean that a portal has been opened, but they have some experience, whether it was a dream, whether it was reality, whether it saved someone's life, like, these are things that we hear about every day from people. So that's what I want to say. So let's just go straight out. Everyone is born psychic, whether or not. You know, we all play at the you know, Kobe Bryant level of psychic nous. That's that's you know, in individual practice and application and skill sets. So that's you know, just out of the gate. So, um, can anyone open a portal? Yes, my elf? Would you like to share your story of your portal? Embarrassed me, made me confess about what a dumbass I am. Hi, hi audience, I'm Julie the dumbass. That's what she just did me. I'm fine, I'm super super fancy, and I opened my own portal. That's what I did. I did. I did open a portal. I am, I am. But here's the beauty that once you do it and you don't die from it or get sucked in like poulter Geist. Um, you then can you then can identify them and learn how to close them. Okay, So I'll try to make it brief ish, because brief is not not in my vocab I think, or my at least my behavior. So my wife Suzanne wanted to She put all these bird feeders around our house and no birds were coming, and so, you know, like a dumbass, I um, I soaked this so stupid. Oh my god, saying out loud it makes you feel really dumb. I soaked clear quarts points and animal spirit guide oil that I bought on Etsy. Go ahead, have fun with that one right now, clearer quartz crystals and animal spirit oil that I bought on Etsy because you love Suzanne so much, you want it, because there was some of that. I wanted to bring her birds. My only question is if you purchased them from some kind of MLM scheme, if you if you went to like a local courts dealer, I'm totally fine with it. Or if you got your oils, you know, somewhere locally and it wasn't were not locally sourced. They were not. They were not locally sourced. No, no, they were not. I was living in California, but not locally sourced. So um, so I put it out by the bird feeders and then I'm guys, I'm not kidding, Like, within twenty four hours, I think they lifted our home. There were so many birds or hundreds of them around our house, and Suzanne's all happen. I'm like, yes, okay. Then we go on a trip, well come home, um, I take a we get home and we see on our kitchen window this I call it a bird stain, but it's it's uh, it's like the powder and the oil. When a bird that a bird has carries with them that left like this mark, and you could see like the beak of this bird and this wings had the wingspan. And I looked outside and there was no bird carcass, and I'm like, well, this is really strange. So I sent a picture of it to Brenda, because anything weird in the world. It's like, hey, brand, what's this? Because remember I'm a stalker. And what did you say? True? I said, all true, It's all true. Yeah, and you're welcome because it's a compliment. So I sent her a picture and the text I get back was open your eyes, my elf, you have spooks. Now if somebody sent you that text, you'd be like what. So I look at the picture closer and yeah, she was right. There were ghosts in my photographs. And I had opened a portal in my backyard and it was sending all sorts of stuff into my backyard where I ended up taking. I mean, I wrote the book The Ghost Photographer, and that is me. And because I am the Ghost Photographers, because I'm also M A D D N O C D. And any you like acronyms, you give me any um emotional disorder, mental destroy, I probably have it at this point. But I took nine thousand pictures of ghosts and I think they were all came from this portal that I opened in my backyard, and you and believe the stuff that came through. So yeah, you can open portals. You can. You can do it accidentally or you're trying to make your wife happy. So all lesbians out there, you don't have to open a portal make your wife happy, but it does make them happy and attempt for you straight guys, hey might work. So so ostensibly it was the placement of the crystals, the like Brenda just going to you, like, what in your mind gridded it. I created a grid by accident. I didn't know I was creating a grid. But I created a grid, is what I did that opened it up. But brand, if you have some other insight that you haven't told me that you want to reveal on the show, you rock on, sister, No, no, no no, I mean what I was just gonna say. So, there are a couple of things there, right, So she activated this grid and it could have been from the oils, it could have been from the crystals. It could also be from her heart, like literally she wanted to delight her wife, right, which is this beautiful love is a very high frequency, so that alone could have done it. The gift in all this was that her photograph caught the bird imprint on the window, and that's where the spirits were like, hey, because spirits will use birds oftentimes to deliver messages, and so that's what she caught. And all I want to add, and this is your welcome, Suzanne exactly. This reminds me of of a story that I think I've told on the podcast before, but this is a good kind of in road to our next question. When I was in like late high school, I was dating a girl who was in early college and I would go see her in college and we sat in the car together in between her classes sometimes, and a mutual friend of ours had died in a car accident and we were both understandably very sad and upset about this. And so I get to her in her car where she was waiting on me, and it was a cold evening, um the windows were all fogged up, and I get in the car and she's crying, and I'm like, what's what's going on? And so she blows on the inside of her windshield and our friends signature was on the inside of the windshield, and so in my mind at that moment, I'm like, this is a thing. This is a experience I'm having where someone is reaching out from the other side and that is is unequivocally what I'm experiencing right now, And she felt the same way. A little time went by and I realized they rode together constantly. It's the kind of thing that like, you know, twenty year old nineteen year old girls do, is write their names on the inside of windshields, and like condensation and you have like oils on your fingers and that stuff stuck around. So I kind of was able to explain it away, and what started off as kind of a really powerful spiritual moment kind of became my evidence that stuff like that isn't really a thing. Um, I just I don't know, I just wanted to bring that up, like in terms of people being skeptical of this stuff and you know, seeing an event like that and maybe misinterpreting it. Um, you know, I don't know, how does that figure into the way you you deal with folks that are maybe you know, looking for something, looking to understand these kinds of things and explain things, but maybe you know, keep explaining it away to themselves as as I did. I mean, this is this is the perfect example of how things are in front of us, and we can accept them and we can explain them away. It's whatever you're comfortable with. And I can also offer you that both can be true. It could be at one time that person wrote their name on the inside of they know, But how many years later, how many months later, how many weeks later, is that's still going to be there? I mean, you just like, there's all kinds of reasons why it wouldn't be there, and there's all kinds of reasons why I wouldn't be there. What's possible? And how can you hold that? I I think you know, we're talking about the portal. Still in my mind, we're still talking about the portal or portals um between the connection right, the place to get from one side essentially of the mortal, the mortal side where we all exist, the only thing that I've ever known and many of us listening to the other side that is possibly either you know, you call it what you will, the afterlife, the eternity, the the the ever flowing river um, whatever, it is when you create a portal like that and you were able to physically take photographs of ghosts or you know, spirits at least um, and we're we're calling them ghosts in in at least in the story here. Um, is that what you both leave you saw, like, do you believe that it is it is human beings that were alive that are no longer alive that you were able to photograph or do you think it was some other kind of spiritual energy, some kind of non human thing? Yeah, I mean, are you like, how certain are you that that's what it is? And was, Well, it's all of the above. So that's the thing. It's like, that's where I what I learned early on is that, um, when when people expect when you talk about anything from the other side, they all a want it to be someone that they know or love. So that's where we all go first, which is did they you know, have a human body? There are so I mean, it gets so complicated and Brennan can explain this better than me, but it um, uh, there are so many energies that have never been in a human body because we all think everything so physical, right and and and now I start with the energetic space, then I go to the physical versus starting physical then going to the energy addict because there are so um you know, we have spirit guides that are with us from the time we're born. And and I have a story actually how mine. I wouldn't be sitting here if it actually wasn't for mine. And his name is Jacob, so I always trying to give him a call out whenever possible. Um that that spirits like Jacob, I've never been in a human body. So there's there are energy, spirits, there are things. And part of what we want to do with the show is so for people to be so open that there's so much more out there than what you've ever seen. You know, you may have felt them but not seeing They may have heard them but not seeing them. Um, you may have gotten like a connection in your body to something but you can't see it. Doesn't mean it's not real and doesn't mean it hasn't that that it wasn't physical before, because not everything powerful in the world has been in a body before. Does that make sense? It doesn't. It brings me to It brings me to something else that I thought would be of interest, and in especially with this show. Recent polls indicate that people around the world are you know, while we always hear things about people becoming increasingly secular in different societies, but in step with that, there seems to be a maybe a renaissance of sorts or some growth in at least publicly stated belief in these kind of um, these let's just call them non corporeal entities. Is how one one statistic or one pole put it. Recently, you GOV asked UH residents of the US about their belief in various what they called paranormal entities, which is also possibly a loaded word, And what they found was that nowadays, as of this year, we're looking at something like forty five per cent of people in America believe not just in the concept of spirits that were formerly human, but in things that never occupied, as you said, Julie, a physical body. This could be something they call a demon maybe depending on their their framework that they were brought up in, or they might call it an angelic or divine being. And I wanted to ask you do you do you too feel that there is uh some kind of rise in in this these publicly stated beliefs nowadays or is it just an error of statistics, or is it just something that's always been true that people are more comfortable talking about in public. I mean, what would your reaction be to these sorts of things that do seem to indicate arise in this sort of belief. I think that people are more comfortable speaking of it. I think the advent of more access, whether it's social media or just more television channels or whatever it is, but people really have experiences. Their experiences a firm from them for them. If you ask people specifically if you believe in angels, the number doubles, right, it's it's really high. So I think, um, And again, all you have to do is say, oh, I'm a spiritual person, and people come flying at you with their stories and the examples that people share of people who are embodied and then not just like that, like they're gone, where they came in, saved something and disappeared in in a breath, and this these stories happened over and over and over. And these aren't like, oh, my grandmother once had a friend who this is like this happened to me. So these are first person stories, and they're spectacular and miraculous and intense, and you can tell the authenticity people have as they embody the story and they share it with you. So I mean, I've just heard so many stories and and they haven't all been angelic, but they've all been very real and very powerful, and I think people are just more comfortable sharing it. And I think, just to add to that, Ben and Brenda, that I think that the millennials are changing everything. And I think what's so interesting is that there is a listen, there's a there's are I'm a nerd kind of like your been. I like to read stuff and take it in. And I just complimented you by calling you a nerd. By the way, You're welcome and uh and and so I've done a lot of reading on this myself. And there was this really great article about all the things that millennials are killing. Um, they're killing golf, they're killing beer, these things that they don't consume or places they don't go anymore. And one of the things that they're also changing is organized religion. And I think what has happened with the with the millennial audience is that they don't buy into dogma the way that their predecessors have, right the boomers, And if I I just want to say Okay Boomer out loud because I just love what they're doing that okay Boomer um and being from and being from Oklahoma, it was Boomer sooner and so it's just like makes my heart explode. But um, so, I don't think they're I don't think they're the generation of dog I think they're the opposite. I think they reject dogma, and I think that, but they're still looking for something bigger, right, and spirituality is that thing for them. Um their way into crystals, um, their way into meditation, their way into yoga, they're into what we would once called alternative that are that feeling far more mainstream. So I think there is a shift in our modern society because all these things that that they're doing, they're not new. They've been around for thousands of years, and it's just that there is a modern you can call it a renaissance of it, but again it's not new. But I think they're rejecting so much of the st ricked dogma, the the you know, with all due respect to the three guys on the line, but there are a lot of the women are rejecting what the men are trying to tell them. To believe, which is a lot of what religion has done. I hope I'm pissing people off right now. You're gonna get a lot of emails, um um. But but I believe that's what's happening, is that there's an opening to that, and I think you'll also see it from women in general, because women, because women, you know, listen, out of we're number two in this out of two, you know, we are physically weaker. Um, that's the only place I think, actually we're weaker. Unless you're gonna arm wrestle man, I'll probably kick your ass. But aside from that, you know we're we're we are number two. We we don't rule the world. And so women are looking for things to give them more strength. And the way they can find strength is through energy. And there's so much more power in that actually than there is physical strength. And so I see a lot of women women moving in that direction. I believe for that reason, I think you'll see men who um have experienced thing right, you know, things, whether it's supernatural, paranormal spirit or whatever you want to call it, um, start moving that direction because they see the peace in it. So there's a peacefulness to it for them. That's just my assessment today. It might change tomorrow well, and just from a historic standpoint, traditionally this has been women's work right to be multidimensional in how they experienced the world, and women's intuition was something that was you know, one of the one of their superpowers, and in a world where they didn't participate in commons commerce and weren't physically as strong as men, but they had this other strength. And for you know, eons, this has been honored and as well as used to dismiss them, right, So it was both a double edged sword or whiches were burned at the stake. They were scared and so like I had women who will come to me for guidance, particularly going through divorce, and they're like, I have to pay you cash because I can't have any money. Trail that says, I came into consult psychic during my divorce so that it won't be used against me and take my children away accepting bitcoin. I think it's a really interesting point because very examptly, I work on a separate podcast called Murder in Oregon, and there is a it's a true crime story about police corruption in prisons in in the state of Oregon, and thank you so much, thank you. But one of the main players in the story, um is a gentleman whose brother was killed, who was the head of corrections in Oregon, and there's a story that his brother tells about how he saw a psychic and how the psychic basically gave him information that led him to some useful things that he found out, which was a they had somebody in custody. The psychic gave him the approximation of the person's name, etcetera. And you know, wearing a producer hat, I wanted to be a full about not leaning too heavily on that, just because you know, we're trying to make a show that appeals to as many people as possible, and I kind of know there's a stigma around that. And sure enough, so many reviews of the show saying love the show, love the brothers, hate the psychic story, and it's genuinely a story this gentleman chose to tell. He believes in We're not telling anybody what to believe. And there was this immediate backlash as in saying like stay in your lane, don't let these two things cross. There's no room for this concept in a straightforward criminal murder investigation. But again on our show, where we try to stay open minded about all of these things and take a critical thinking approach to this kind of stuff, We've absolutely investigated government programs that have used mediums and spiritualists and psychics to glean some pretty relevant information, whether it's about secret sites. UM. We did an interview with the guy named Russell targ about a program. His book was called Third Eye Spies, about a program that he it out of Stanford that genuinely created a program for the government that could quote unquote teach people to be psychic. Show on that and I found him to be very credible, you know, me being kind of a skeptic about this, like I was saying earlier, based on my story, I really and and you know, I'm not saying that I don't find you guys to be credible, but talking to him and the scientific way that he approached it, it did something for me that I hadn't really experienced, and I was a little more on board than I maybe had been previously. But you know, it's still there is that stigma, and I'm wondering how you you you deal with that? UM, I mean, obviously, you know, you can't let every little critique derail your entire way of thinking. But it has to be something that you contend with on some level all the time. And you know what, you don't have to believe, and you don't even have to think were credible, because that's the beauty is that it's it's it's it's your choice. You get to choose, and we don't care either way. And I will tell you something about the skepticism. I don't know about you, but I am a subscriber to UM. I think it's called sket skeptical, Yeah, skept something, skeptic, inquirer, whatever the hell it's called. My alf has a lot of time on our hands. Well, and I'm not good with names. It's it's terrible, but it's but you you know what I'm talking about. So I actually read that stuff just so I can understand the other perspective right the other side. That's a little plug, thanks, UM. So, so I understand why why you're saying that what you're saying, UM, And I think that we all will believe when we're ready. You don't have to at any point in time. And so I've had people come after me about this. I mean, I was on when I was on the road show for my book, I was on a radio tour and there were callings. I was on this show for two hours, and all these callings and these guys and there were guys, in all fairness to your gym under that we're wanting to try to discredit me all these kinds of things. And my response was, you're not required to believe. You're just you're not. And I'm not here to sell it, because that's the other thing. We're not here to sell this to anyone. We don't need you to believe this is actually makes your life better if you do, and you know our opinion, but you're not required. And that's kind of the end to be perfectly on, I mean from my point of view, because I'm not. I'm not because this we're not a religion. We're not trying to take this country to country and convert. That is not what we are. We're just the opposite world domination. That's the world, right, it's it's the Julian Brenda's show, World Domination religion. We have some kool aid here for you to drink. There's no cool laid. We have no kool aid, because you get to choose if you want to to believe or not, but not to believe. And quite frankly, I mean we have chosen working as a medium can be very intense work. You're working with people in the most vulnerable you know, aspect of life emotionally, and you know, so it can be very serious. And we've actually chosen to keep the tone light and you know not and not without you know, weight to it, but to invite people, to make people more comfortable, to let them come in and find their own way with with the topic and not try and force anything. Really, and let's pause here for a moment and hear a word from our sponsor. This leads us to something that I think is very close to, uh, the heart of the current thread here, which is that I have heard, I've heard pretty often from my my friends who are deeper in this sphere than I that I have ever been, that there are a ton of misconceptions that the average person might hold when they think of this sort of communication, or they think of the afterlife or the term you used, Brenda, that I especially appreciated the unseen world. What do you all see as some of the more common misconceptions that people hold when they think about this stuff. The worst, I think, the worst misconception that I have come across, and it it blindsided me. And I'm usually pretty aware of these things, and this one came out of nowhere, and I feel like it almost knocked me over because of the person who was expressing it to me. But it was a it's a close friend of mine here in Los Angeles. And he said to me, He's like, you know, my wife is really concerned about my relationship with you. I'm like, well, what what I said? I'm a lesbian and I totally missed the mark nice. I usually can get around with that and that was such a good hall pass with guys. And he's like, no, you know, she really, you know, um thinks that you have a connection to the devil because you have these powers. And I looked at him brokenhearted. To be perfectly honest, I'm like she does. He's like, yeah, I go well, and I sat there for a second. I said, you know what, I go do me a favor. Let her know that I very much believe in God and godly woman. I just don't go to church, but I very much believe in in that and there were the archetype of and I said, because ask her, where does she think I got these powers from? I said, because I only use them for good? And he goes, oh, and so he went and told her and we're all good now. Umna, she probably has an issue that I'm lesbian. But that's a whole another story, is a whole other podcast. Things they don't want you to know. Well, guess what they don't want you to know that I'm elisabean. Um So I think the whole being demand it is probably the thing that upsets me the most because or that I hear that is shifts me because I I people brend us specifically myself and others like us. I don't know very many people are actually anybody that have come across that ever uses their powers for evil. They only use them for good? So how could that come from a bad place? And that's probably the thing that the misconception that I get that is probably the most upsetting. And I get called a witch, but that's a compliment. Yeah, I was gonna ask, are we getting into like witchcraft? Like are we getting into wicco? Where? How would you this is? You boys and your labels I just I apologize. I I just it helps our listeners kind of understand like kind of where where we're lying. We've we've covered witchcraft several times, um a lot in the in the past, so we we've kind of gone over some of the you know, the left hand right hand path, like there our differences if you're you know, if you're speaking about witchcraft, whether you use your powers for what would be considered by an objective power as good or evil and perhaps not possibly objective, but just yeah, what what do you tell me? More a couple of things so I don't get asked if I'm you know, working for the dark side straight up like like Julie did. Or I'm sure I have family members who are playing praying for my soul and I'm good with that, no harm, no file, I'm sorry. I know her family, so that was funny to make. But um, but what I would say is that um wiccan to be to be practicing. Wicca is a religion, so it has its own dogma. Now, because of my name Brenda, I often get called Brenda the good Witch, but I am not a witch. I don't practice Wiccan. I do get called Brenda the good Witch. A lot, so you know, it's done playfully, it's done hopefully in the honoring way. Um. But it's that's about the closest that I come other than honoring the nature spirits just in the world and the energy they bring in support us. But other than that, we are not wicked. I am not wicked. So I'll talk for me. Well, the Wizard of Oz is a classically great film, so I would take that as a compliment myself. Can I just show them a really fast I wanted to ask a couple of these questions. So I just want to know if you were too describe what the afterlife is? How how would you describe it? Or the the other side, Like, um, I want our listeners to be able to imagine it like paint a paint a picture in their minds. What is the afterlife? Well, let me just jump in here for a minute, um, just to you know, most people, like some phrases I hear all the time is I'll sleep when I'm dead. Right, I'm like, that's not how it works. We do not. We actually have a lot of work to do. On the other side, we have to integrate. Right again, this is where part of my my approach that Earth school is hard comes from knowing that we come to this you know, embodied phase of our spiritual life to learn lessons, to um expand our experience and understanding of our soul, and to contribute to the divine's expansion. Like that's why we come, which means when we're done on this phase of our you know, plan, our soul expanding plan, when we go back, we integrate, We integrate, we learned the lessons deeply, we understand more fully, we review our karmic lessons because you know, we are either creating dharma or karma blessings or more lessons. And then you know, so the next time we come, we're ready. You know, those lessons are teaed up and those blessings are teaed up for us to activate when we get here. So when we get to the other side, so hopefully that now there's a bit of a long explanation, but when we get to the other side, there's lots of support spirits, there's lots of reviewing and understanding. And it's not just this world, it's other It's an intergalactic experience. As I've been told, in the limited way I can understand it because in this form, I'm still human, but I've had insights into what it what unfolds on the other side, Like I can't wait to go to Neptune when I'm dead, Like that's like the first place I wanted. I have a I have a bucket list for when I'm dead. Most people have from when they're alive. I have a bucket list for when I'm dead. And Neptune is number one, Pluto's number two, Saturn's number three. If you all really want to know, absolute Moon, no Mercury, no, I like that. I want the outer planets. I can't wait to go hang out on those. Honestly, it's it sounds very entertaining and interesting. I'm just you know, I think it is one of those This is one of those areas where I find myself being a little more skeptical when I generally wouldn't be. And I'm trying. I don't want to play into the you know, the gender stereotypes that that you're kind of speaking about. There, the the religious or I'm going to jump in so I'm gonna help you. I I think I can help you out with this if you can buy into the concept that we are a spirit having a human experience. Right, So when our human body, um it dies, it no longer works. We leave our body and spirit form. And when we leave our body in spirit form, we are energy because everything is energy. And then when we cross over, when Brenda talks about there are other things for us to learn, is you know there are um there's there's healing that has to happen. Like my mother died of Alzheimer's and she had Alzheimer's for ten years, so when she crossed over, it took her a while to figure out how to operate as just a spirit and not that broken body. When the first things that happens to us when we cross over a cross out of our body into this the fully into only the spiritual world, is that there is a life review that happens for us. But it's an interesting life review because you we are put into the position of feeling what we made other people feel in this life. I have a friend of mine um who works in the entertainment industry, who actually had a near death experience and what that when he started the life review before he came back, what he experienced was how mean he was to Valets. Now that is the one that's a one percent or problem. But but he felt how rude he was right UM, and and it actually profoundly changed him in this world because he's one of the most gentle, kindest humans that I know because he experienced that how he made other people feel. So that's kind of step one that happens, is that you gotta learn your lessons. So once you get going and start cruising through life or cruising through death, life is UM, then you get to start choosing things. Like my mother comes to me UM sometimes I don't want to say all the time, but we have a nice relationship ship UM on the other side, and and there are times I've seen her and she comes to me on how she wants me to see her. She's come to me UM looking like the younger version of herself before I was ever even born. So she had long hair and never knew my mother with long hair. UM. I saw her one time and she had like a hundred cats because she was kind of cat lady. I mean, that's a confession I really don't want to put, but I'm gonna go ahead and say she's a cat lady. She loved cats, and there was like a hundred cats like that were jumping and when she was the happiest I had seen her on the other side because she chose to go spend time there. So we get to go choose. So when you say give people, give your listeners, paint them a picture, Well, the thing is, there are so many pictures. There's not numbers that exist in our mathematical order that can give you the number of painted objects that how people could how they are on the other side because they get to create that right, because we still live in the physical world. And I think that's where some complication happens. But I will tell you when I think a question, what what can help people maybe paint a picture? Is what actually Brendan, I see when we talked to um loved ones that have crossed over. So I had a friend again in the entertainment industry that came to me after my book came out, and she wanted to have dinner and and Um, I agreed to have dinner, and and so she's talking that she wanted to Actually she wanted her I think her father to come through. Well that's not who came through. So so point number one is that you may ask for somebody to come through but it's up to them and I'm not in charge of that. So like, whoever comes through comes through. But I see this woman and I start describing this woman, and this is actually a friend of hers that that had died. So I described her to the tea of this woman that I saw, and we get into it. But what was the interesting part of it was I looked at my friend and I said, dor, I said, did your friend have a boom job? And she looked at me. She goes no, And she was why And I said, because she's flashing me her boobs. I said, I you know, I'm still a little kind of new with this, right. It hasn't been my life long, uh pursuit, but I've never had a spirit flashed me their boobs. And I said, and now I and now I cannot and see it. And uh so She's like, no, she didn't. So, of course, as someone who was a bit more of a newbie than somebody like Brenda who has like her pH d. In this, I'm like in second grade, Um, I get insecure about I'm like, well, okay, well I'm just telling you this is what I see. So the next day I get an email from her because she reached out to her friend's husband and who confirmed that she had actually had a boob job. And um, so they come up, they show up literally how they choose to. And for some reason, this woman flashed me her boobs from the other side. And you guys are all like, oh man, I want to be a psychic. Now. Um, that's a whole new business. By the way, Okay, I got totally distracted. But so so we see different thing you say, show up different ways, Like I'll see people like they'll show me food, they'll show me objects, they'll um some things look like a video, some things are a picture. Sometimes I can feel something smells, taste, like we just get little bits at least me again as a second grader and the mediumship world. Um, but I think that's more interesting to people is just to know how we we see them brand you want to add to that. That was great. I think that was Oh my god, I just want to pause. You've never said that relationship. It's a little different. You know, you answered a little different questions, which is how do they show up? Um, which is different than you know, how what's the other side, Like it's it's a variation of theme. But it's it was beautiful well, and you kind of answered my next statement slash question in that answering there, and it's I'm wanting to be very honest here, and I do not think this the following is possible, but I wish it were. And this is why I'm asking you. I UM, I'm going through things in my life right now that I could very UM. It would be wonderful if I could commune with my grandfather who helped me through times of my life that were difficult in the past. But he has been gone since and I haven't been able to do that, UM, And I very much wish that I could, but I do not believe it as possible. Just I'm I'm asking it, like, what could I do if I wanted to at least increase my chances in being able to maybe communicate with him again? Just a couple thoughts, UM, And the first thing I would ask if you have a meditation practice at all? Yes, I do, okay, great, UM, and well done. So in your meditation practice, I would just offer, um, like a deep invitation that says, please let me experience you in some way, like just create an invitation from heart to heart and then be unattached of how that shows up, but I would that that would be my practice for forty days is just remember when to include that invitation as part of your meditation practice. The second thing is I would extend that invitation as you go to bed each night, and you can even take a few minutes to even write to him and say, at this time, when I'm in deep transition and I'm calling upon your wisdom, I imagine these are the things you would remind me of. Please show up and remind me what I can't remember right now because you've already given me everything that I need, but right now I need more. And that's that's beautiful and I wow, okay, you'll have to update us, Matt, And uh, well, I mean and I you know, I say that in a personal a very subjective thing, but I imagine that a lot of people listening could identify with someone in their life like kind of as we were speaking earlier, that they could really use that communication with you. Were you were very clear that when you do open apport or you never really know what you're gonna get right um or who's going to be around, or who you're gonna end up speaking with. But that, Uh, that's a great I think that's a great idea, just because it doesn't matter what you believe. But if you open yourself in the way you just described to someone else, even if it's just yourself reminding yourself of the words of that lost love one, you may still have the same effect. You know, and I've always thought of I mean my personal I guess spiritual you know, um code, I guess for lack of a better word, is that everything is kind of remnants of information and memories. And oftentimes when we uh think we're experiencing something from the other side or something like a ghost or you know, a loved one speaking to us. To me, it's just like everything's information. And I know that sort it was counted to what you're saying, and that everything is his spirit and his energy. But I guess energy is is kind of information. So to me, like that is a big part of the way I look at it. Even like my story about the inside of the windshield of signature, that's left over information, that's a fragment of something that was left behind, whether physically, and it's still there because only a week's time has passed since this person died. Um or maybe it is something like what you're describing, But I don't know that one is more or less valid than the other. And I understand when people talk about how places where horrible things have happened, where lots of you know, traumatic things have happened, and those are like very rich with uh disturbing kind of energy or spirits or to me it's memories or information kind of that like lingers in a place where lots of you know, traumatic things have happened. So I know I'm rambling. Yeah, good, I just I couldn't agree more. And I it was very specific with the invitation, right, that that is launching off the freak and sees of love, and love is energy and it's never destroyed. Right, you can't destroy energy. And so if you launch that invitation, the invocation from your heart, it's going to secure the frequency in which it comes back because a low a low frequency can't exist in the space of a high frequency. Right, The high frequency will always dominate. And love is a higher frequency than it's the highest frequency. So go ahead, I was to say, And just to add that for those that that try and they struggle or they are skeptical and they want to give it a world and they just can't get there. Um, call somebody like Brenda or or reach out and schedule appointment with Brenda, because that's well, that's how I got started, right Like I didn't I wasn't capable at that time. I didn't know enough, I didn't understand um and I you know, I was in my my own personal winter. And and sometimes it's okay to reach out and ask someone else. So Matt, I would encourage you to reach out to Brenda to be real honest, thank you as I outside the show or now you guys choose, but I would just encourage you to do that because if if you are struggling with it and you don't really have a belief, if you go into it without a belief, you're probably not going to get in touch with your grandfather. But if you believe, then you have a better chance. Yeah. And again I don't think, um, I don't think you need to believe to have the connection. But it's nice to be open to possibilities. That's all. Just remain and just remain open is really helpful, you know it. One one thing is fascinating here is as we as we get toward the end, of our episode, the introduction of the Insiders Guide to the other Side, Julie, Brenda, you literally anticipated the question I was going to ask next, which was one of the things that we always like to do on this show, is you empower the people. Do you actually think we anticipated it? Did you actually think that maybe Brent and I might have access to a little power that you're not familiar with, you mean, Google docs and once the Uh, well, I guess it goes back to the nature of anticipation. So what I'm setting up here is that I think you beautifully already answered what was going to be our last question, which was what advice can you give people who want to focus on honing their own abilities in this regard? I asked, because one thing that's stuck out in our earlier conversations that we're that we're not on this episode. Uh to to our earlier conversation that was on the air today was Brenda, you had a statement where you said that everybody is born inherently psychic. Everybody has abilities in this regard, and so we just want to give you give you the space. Uh. Talking directly to our list nurse today, is there is there anything in addition to what you all just established, any any additional advice you could give someone who's listening right now and saying, you know, as you established earlier, saying well, I want to I want to try to uh advance in this, but I don't know how is there anything other than openness that that could that people could directly apply in their day to day lives. I love the question, and thank you, ben Um. The for me, the most of the priority is people want it so much and so that they're focusing and they're gonna like, I'm watching and I'm going to make sure this happens, and if it doesn't come in the way I asked for it, it doesn't matter. And I would remind people that that's, um, that's a little immature because you're asking spirit to like thread a specific needle as opposed to simply gauge. And so instead of like I want to say, you know, I wrote down a specific list. I want these three things in this order by this time, and you know, and that's a fun game to play, it's just not it doesn't produce the best results. What the best results is to have a soft focus. So the first thing is start a meditation practice. If you don't have one, don't make it hard and make it easy, which is to soften your mind and you have a visual that you like to come back to in your mind or in front of your eyes, eyes open or closes up to you, but have a really soft focus, because we're talking about the unseen world, and so if you are hyper focused with your eyes, you're gonna miss the actual unseen world. The very subtleties of how spirit comes in, whether it's a flash, whether it's you know, soft sound, you're gonna miss it if you're playing music or on your phone, or you know, hyper focus. So soften the focus, just two three to five minutes a day can get you really, really far with bringing your mind into alignment and being able to perceive the subtlety set spirit brings in um and you know, like writing keeping track in a general Oh, you know, whether it's like someone symbol is a star, Oh, I saw three stars this week and it was in these three places, or you know, like sometimes they'll give you a symbol and and you can just go off of that, like pay attention to where that guidance shows up. And then if meditation or you know, finding your spiritual vibe isn't really your thing, then move into the the unconscious world of dreams and start keeping track of your dreams, because then we don't have the conscious filter in place that takes information that's available to us or coming at us. And I was always present in filtering out this is impossible, This can't make sense. Our conscious filters will take a lot of information that's around us and just put it aside. And so those are the two venues that I like, Um, Julie, Yeah, I am so before I actually had any type of spiritual vibe UM or any type the meditation type of practice, Like, I don't do it the way that render does it because I am all those acronyms, um, But for me, it was it's it's what I encourage people to do is is to truly pay attention. And I think that if you do find a practice that allows you to pay attention more throughout your day, but if you can't, try to find a different way to to stay focused and pay attention. Because there are a list of things to look for. And what I the things that I would see from from loved ones um were things like they because they're energy, they like to get into our our electronics. So look for lights flickering, look for things that um, and then and also try to explain them away because I think that's okay to right. It's like, because you don't want to think that if that you have your grandfather coming through, but you have a wiring problem in your house. Um, but you don't. I mean, like I I try to be really open with and honest with people about this. It's like just because you know, I don't want you to think that someone's here when they're actually not because you have really a wiring issue. But electronics is a good one and one of the best ones that I found is is um in part of the whole electronics family is also computers. Um. There was a time when my wife and I were in our kitchen. Um, the computer was on. But what happened was and you know, this is solid state technology, right, so this isn't like faulty wiring because it was a Mac go Apple, and they should pay you for that, by the way, so somebody should call them. Uh. So iTunes came up, and it was before I Heart had an app, So iTunes came up and and played a song. Uh. It was psychedelic furs, ghost in you. Um, it's not ironic. That was obviously planned by the spirit. And I knew. I'm like, okay, who's here? Because that just doesn't happen because it's solid state technology, right, and and it's music is another thing. Right, So there's a divine in timing for them for you, for you to hear a song at a certain time and you might be thinking about someone. Don't think it's just accidental, right, They know when you're about ready to enter into a place. Um. So music is good, electronics are good. Light, you know, lights are really good. So just to pay attention to some of those things. Um, numerology, you know. I remember Brenda after we lost Mona and you had asked me, you said, does the number six mean anything to you? And I said, well, no, actually it doesn't, and you said, well it does. Now I go, what do you mean? Because Wimana is telling you that the number six is your number? And I will tell you I saw six everywhere and maybe I got I was a tuned to it, but I will tell you. Uh. Susanne and I were in Palm Springs at a casino and I played number six on roulette and it hit over and over and over and over and where I could buy a new mountain bike. Um, so I never heard that story. That's fine, you didn't. Well, you're welcome on that one. And actually thank you for that one, because you know I came out ahead. Um it's almost like a lottery kind of number thing, but it was one number and so you know, just these are things that aren't you know, you're not whisked the way to behind a closed door, you know, behind the door to another galaxy. I was in. I was in a casino, man and kept hitting the number that that mona wanted me to know it was her. So there's so many different ways that they can communicate with us. There's so many ways for us to tap into that. But paying attention is the most important thing we can do. It keeps you in the present, all your senses are active, and you can really be able to know what's happening when it's happening. Because I bet you all of you have experienced so many things that A you don't know, or you've tried to um, you've tried to explain away, or you've just missed, but they're there. I guarantee your grandfather Matt has has definitely made his self present to you. I would I would probably agree. I think I think a lot of that comes that longing comes from the um the want to have a conversation, right, And I think that's the wrong way to think about it. The way an interaction can occur here, the way you're describing, the way you've been describing interactions this whole time. It's more of an interpretation of something that you know, uh, a reaching out that isn't sitting down and having a conversation that is not going to happen likely when I find the conversation, Yeah, I find the conversations UM come best from the pros like Brenda, because Brenda has this Brenda shut your ears on once you get a big head that Brenda has such I mean, her gifts are so extraordinary. And then when she talked about superpowers, I've always encouraged her to get a cape um because to me she is like superwoman and and has this ability to communicate from the other side to through her to you where the words that she uses even at one point I swear brend you sounded like mon And it was really weird when that happened. Um, because her gift is so extraordinary, and and plus Brenda is also um she's a very principled person. And because she's so principled, um uh, they come to her. And I don't want me to explain what principle means. But because she's so principled that that she gets messages, I think that others don't. And so conversations are best to come from her. You're going to get probably um uh, an inclination that they're around you. They might give you a hint there that might give you a clue of some sort, but the combos come from from the pros. So the only thing, thank you, Julie, you're very kind, and that you didn't close your ears. The only thing I would think about, um when you when you spoke of interpretations. Right, of course it's interpretations because it's a frequency. Right. They don't have a body anymore, so they are transmitting a frequency. It can be a feeling, it can be a sound, it can be a color, it can be right, it's a frequency. It could be like that emotional translation. Like when I'm speaking for spirit, I am literally saying the whole time I'm talking, I'm following the frequency and following the frequency, and then I'm checking with spirit did I get it right? Did? And sometimes I'll go back and have me edit something, just a little bit that I got off or something. I'll be like, no, this was good up until here. Then it's this other thing, and they'll they'll show it to me again. Because I'm translating frequency, that's what I'm translating, and and and that, and that translates to emotion. I will tell you what happened about five minutes ago. I wasn't going to confess this, but I'm gonna confess it to you. What just happened is that when Brenda was speaking earlier and she was talking about meditation practices and she was going through this, that I closed my eyes and I see my mother, um, because she shows up a lot when I talk about her and what she transmitted. I almost started to cry. And this is literally five minute If if if Chris would have turned around and been like, what the hell? Why is she crying? Nothing's going on. It's because I was actually having a moment with my mom. So they can be an emotional moment for you, and it was just a physical emotional and it was love. It was just like, I'm so proud of you, baby, You're doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing. And and so those things happen and it just happened to me five minutes ago. And this this is our perfect transition point. Listeners, we want to pass the conversation to you. We want to hear your personal stories, the experiences you feel comfortable sharing after listening to our conversation today, Julie Brenda, we want to thank you so much for being so generous with your time today and for introducing many of us for the first time to the real life version of the things that they may have only seen depicted before in in stories or you know, works of fiction. Uh. And most importantly I would say also thank you for sharing your stories and thank you for giving list there's the tools that they will need to at least get started on their journey. The Insiders Guide to the Other Side is out now. It is available as as we always say, on the I Heart Radio app. You can find it wherever you find your your favorite new podcast. And I just want to add something here. We've been talking about belief and skepticism and you know the gamut that all of us listening run just remember, as always on this show, we will never tell you what to believe, but we do ask that like like Julie and Brenda said, keep an open mind before you shut anything down. Um, so that just just putting that in there before we end. Um, Julian Brenda has been said, thank you for coming on the show. Where can we find you guys on social media? You know, you can find us on Instagram at other side guides, you can also call and leave a message for us, and we love that at eight three three to to guide. Oh, I might use that. You guys might get a lot of calls. Actually I want a lot of calls. Amazing. Well, on the flip side of that, if you want to check our show out online, our entire catalog is available on the I Heart Radio app or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. You can check us out on the social media where we are Conspiracy Stuff and Conspiracy Stuff Show on Facebook and Instagram, respectively. You can also join our group Here's where it Gets Crazy, which is on Facebook. All you have to do is name myself Matt or Ben or combination of the three, or make some reference to something silly that we said, or just make us laugh where you're you're in babies and if none of that, white bags your badgers and you say, guys, I hate the social meds, you know, but I have a story to share. I have something I want to tell you. Well. You are in luck, friends and neighbors, because you can email us directly. We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production of i Heeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.