From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noll, and I am then today. Hopefully you are still you. Thanks for dropping by. That makes this stuff they don't want you to know. And boy, we've been doing uh, we've been doing a lot of doozies. This is the first time in a while that all three of us have been in the studio together. I have returned everyone. Yes, this is the real journeys, I tell you, gentlemen. Being on a naval base, a huge naval base that was once a couple of separated institutions that are now all one big thing. It's fascinating going through all the security to retrieve the launch codes. You're not supposed to talk about that here. No, Well, the badgers out of the bag. What's what's the happens? Beat the badger back into the bag. So, guys, what happened while I was there is I got to watch about five hundred young I guess they're petty officers. They are They all graduated from the Nuclear Power School in different varying degrees. Some of them are officers, some of them will be moving on to go work on a sub whole another set of lingo right for positions in the names right, So these are not like shallow bad people. Their actual title is petty officer. Yeah, and my brother in law, he was the person I went to go see. He actually very much dislikes that title, but yes, it was. It was super cool to see all these guys who are younger than me, who are going to be going and working on just huge nuclear powered machines that they are going to be essentially running the furnaces, you know, like just making it all happen and running all the systems. Oh, that's pretty cool. I'd like to have that knowledge. Well that this brings us to an interesting point. UH listeners, we'd love to hear any of your military or naval related stories if you have some experience, because it is an entirely different world and it's something that if if you think there's something hidden or interesting that the average non uh non military member just wouldn't think about or wouldn't know, UH, and you'd like the rest of your fellow listeners to hear it, then write to us or send us a tweet or um, what's a Facebook message? I've got one for you. Right before we go in, I did not know that most of our countries nuclear power systems, just the ones that generate power that's mostly run by the Navy. I didn't know that. Yeah, it's true. I I thought I thought they were simply training people four ships and for submarines and things like that. But it's to maintain the infrastructure of our nuclear power. Speaking of correspondence, and we had some folks right in and we we asked if this should go at the beginning of the end. We're going to keep it at the beginning this time, and and see we feel about it. But ladies and gentlemen, it is time for our shout out corner. Shout out corners, Yes, shout out corner, the moment in the show where every week we go to your comments, your tweets, your community case and we attach a shout out, a personal touch to send it back out at you. So today we have several. The first one comes from Eric or at Eric, who says every three minutes of the show should have a shout out. And now any one for myself. So fair, Eric, here's your shout out. Thank you for the feedback. This was visa vs. Should the shout out corner be at the top of the show or the bottom of the show. Clearly Eric is in the former camp. Well he has gone a third way. Eric, We'll make a compromise. What what you can do is play that shout out part every every three minutes, repute every five whenever you wish. I think it'll be tough for us to do a shout out every three minutes. That sounds kind of we'd have to be a live show, and then it would be confusing. We would need a fourth person just to supply all of the shoutouts just while we're going. I think, what if the shout out? What if we were fueled by shoutouts? What if that was the only way we could continue is every three minutes we recharged with a shout out. I don't know, man, kind of like we've talked about shoutouts as currency, why not shoutouts as sustenance? You know this is this is We're gonna tie this in in a weird way. Uh. Later on in today's podcast, actually and I love do you point out sustenance. Who's next? You want to go? You want me to go? Matt. The next shout out goes out to Steward Lucky. He sent us an email. We see him all over the place, guys on our periscope, sending us messages on our Twitter all the time. Starts. Stewart's really cool and he always is interacting with us. So guess what, Stewart, huge shout out to you. You send us something about the tiger stripes in the Kumtang desert in northwest China. It looks really interesting. Have you guys seen an image of this? Yeah, I've seen some images. Yeah, it's really cool. He says. Could this have something to do with perhaps a Chinese harp system? Maybe be, But the way it looks, it looks very very different to me. I would you know, I would love to look into this more and get back get back to you on that. With this is like a pattern that you can see in a flyover or something I don't know right, you can see on Google Earth came. So it can't be that that secret because as we know, Google Earth will cow taw to any state level oreganization that request. It removes something what a nightmare. That job must be going in and scrubbing all the yeah and pixelating it and people you can probably tell if you know what you're looking at, if you find the right spot and you say, wow, these trees or this sand became suddenly sixteen biddish. Yeah. That's very much a repeating pattern here. So our last last shot is to Ashley Wazner or Wazner who suggested we look into the strange noises in the sky that have been documented on video across the world. This is an interesting one. I think a few years ago we had heard about this. Some people have said trumpets in the sky. Some people had mentioned it's tied as well with the idea of the hum or some something of that nature. So these are all great suggestions. We're gonna look into these, and thank you for writing to us. If you would like a shout out, then, as always, drop us a line where conspiracy stuff on Facebook, Twitter, and we're uh, I don't know, we're kind of all over the internet nowadays, right, we got the Internet going nuts. And that concludes the shoutout corner. Let's go right into this. Have you guys, have you matter you know seeing a UFO I can I cannot say that I have or not. I do not believe that I have seen a UFO officially, Well, guys, as it happens, I have seen what I would consider unidentified to me, and I was not able to identify it after the fact. And it was a very unusual peculiar shape that I'm not used to seeing at the at the height in the sky that I was seeing it. Um. So, in a past life, I once was a poor touring musician um with a group of Satanists called the hell Blinky sex tet Um. We were released Satanists, but the name of the band was the hell Blinky sextet Um. They're actually still around and shout out to Andrew Benjamin and and all the hell Blinky folks. They played Dragon Con, they play They're they're kind of a steampunk type band. That was was sort of a little goth kid playing the violin with my uh, with my goatee and my black clothes. Anywhere, Yeah, I can, we can post a picture. Um. Anyway, we were on a tour and we were traveling through the Midwest in a rented van and um, you know, it was in Illinois or somewhere. I remember there was a lot of corn a lot of corn fields. I've never really um road tripped in that part of the country before, so I was kind of taking it in and looking out the window. I had a little handicam back in the day, was one of the first little HD sony handicams, and UM I was shooting footage of the window, and um, over the corn fields, kind of far into the horizon, I saw what looked like sort of a strange geometric, clely shaped object. It was. It was kind of like a diamond shape um or maybe like almost like a like a trapezoid kind of I remember it had very angular and it was it was just hovering and it wasn't close. It was clearly very far. But the size that it was for how you know. And again, the perspective is strange out there when you're in very flat land. It's hard to kind of judge distance as well. And I wasn't really used to, you know, seeing things in this part of the country, so it was very jarring. And I did get it on video, and for whatever reason, I do not have the tape anymore. I know that's sort of likely story. But at your house, no nobody showed up at my house. But they probably just figured that, you know, my dumb self would lose the thing in which I did, and so I was no threat to anyone trying to cover anything else. Well, here's the thing with the men in Black, if if you were in fact visited by them, you would have no recollection with Yeah, it's like being roofy by the men And luck did the UFO have any lights on it or it was during the day, it's the thing, So it was in the middle of the day and it you know, it was just very strange. And the funny thing is, I've looked, even like in the X Files and in shows like that where they have uh photos of supposed UFO sightings. What I saw it looked very similar to some of these sightings. And I remember there's an episode in the X Files, I forget which one it was, where there was some sort of top secret government craft that would like it was really really fast and it was you know, setting the ground on fire because it was remember that one. Anyway, it looked like kind of what one of those would have been what would have looked like. But it was really strange, and to this day have not been able to justify figure out what it was. Um, you know, very, very very that's fascinating. And we've had, we've had, especially recently, a lot of people right in to say, hey, guys, here's the story I have. I cannot explain it, but I wanted to tell you about it. And we appreciate those and maybe when we compile enough we can read them on air and maybe a UFO listener mail episode. Um, this brought us to a big question we wanted to ask today and you have maybe asked yourself this before, which is where the heck are all the aliens? Where all the extraterrestrials seems like they would be around, right? Absolutely? So, okay, this is this is something that blows my mind when you think about it. Whenever we hear people arguing about alien life or extraterrestrial stuff, and it's automatically treated as some sort of tinfoil clap trap. Those people are not exhibiting those critics rather or not exhibiting critical thinking when they say that there are no aliens. We can walk through this because there's this huge paradox, right, given this this, given the size of the universe, it is, let's just through the numbers so the observable universe is about ninety billion light years in diameter, just the part we can see, just that part. In that billion light years, there at least a hundred billion galaxies, and planets like the one we live on are pretty common. They're not They're not rare by any means. This means that there are trillions of possibly habitable planets. And this leads us to the number one thing that blows my mind. The odds are on our side. With the size of the universe, it is almost completely inevitable that some other form of life exists or did exist, or will exist. Here's the downer to this beautiful thought, right, Uh, the same thing that means is that aliens definitely exists, and where life definitely exists in the universe also guarantees that these other forms of life, um probably won't ever come into contact with us, or we won't come into contact with them, and and that's a very unfortunate thing. But it just it's because we're so vastly far away, right, Yeah, So when you look at the odds, think of our area of the universe like a neighborhood, right, And let's call our neighborhood the Milky Way. So these other life forms may very likely not be in our neighborhood. They might be in a different neighborhood. And the reason that this sucks so bad for us is because we will probably never get to see them, even if we have great technology, because the universe is expanding. But whenever the stuff comes up in you know, pop culture tropes and fiction, it's always like the aliens just have to make contact with us because we are so fascinating and great and or awful if they want to annihilate us, right, And that's you know, from a logical standpoint, there's some disturbing things in there. We get this, like, even if we had an amazingly fast spacecraft, right uh, And even if we somehow had a social organization or dynamic that allowed us to be in a spacecraft for a long time and not kill each other and reproduce effectively and still be cool about everything, it would still take us billions of years to travel to another another cosmic neighborhood, yeah, to another galaxy, right to escape. And even if we could escape our galaxy, we're not even exactly sure what we're going to encounter. From a physics standpoint, leaving a galaxy because there there are all of these effects on on gravitational fields and all these other things that when you're inside the safety of even a solar system, when you're trying to escape that they're's they're huge dangers that we possibly haven't even accounted for yet. Right, and let's remember that those dangers would it goes both ways. Another civilization attempting to come to Earth would also run into those things, if it we're not from the Milky Way and in between those neighborhoods, it's the deep, it's the ink. Yeah, it's a very specific set of conditions that give us the atmosphere and then the gravity that we experience. And you know that's why astronauts need such intense equipment when they you know, even go just outside of our atmosphere. Right, yeah, and this this ties into something else. Let's get weird with it. Let's assume or play a thought game with us, folks. Let's uh, let's imagine that humanity gets its collective junk together, right where a family show gets its lective stuff together, cooperates and builds some kind of multi generational spaceship and arc of sorts. Yes, yeah, essentially, and this thing would be capable of traveling billions of years. And we have detected somehow a signal from a nearby galaxy, and we we say, well, we have the technology to build something that will last billions of years. We're going to take this gigantic leap, and we are going to spend more time than ever in humanity and a conscious pursuit of a single endeavor. Here's the stuff that would happen that we would be strange. Even if we survived, I had some kind of cohesive social structure, we ourselves would probably evolve along the way due to the exposure, the compromises we would have to make to this other, uh, this other environment in which we would live, Which means that even if everything else went right, and even if there were still some things, some other intelligent thing to find when we got there, whatever did land and comes out of that spaceship would no longer really be human. That's crazy to think about. So even for that alone, we wouldn't be there. And did there are ways we could get around it. Let's imagine if we did cryogenics, you know, some kind of hibernation. What if we sent robots which honestly, is probably the the next step. What if we just sent robots that had our DNA and said, you know, do us a solid and make some of us once you get to a cool part, and they would go, it's a little weird, I don't know. No, No, it would be great. As long as they didn't have any kind of extensive historical documentation about humanity, then they would be well. Of course, once we get to this point where we can create an arc, at least in this world that we've created here, perhaps humanity has moved on from our past aggressiveness and all of that. But that's that's the strange thing, right, Matt, Like, none of that matters. None of all these very heady scientific fiction type things we've mentioned matter. If the destination star explodes, if the civilization perishes, perhaps due to nuclear war, due to some other technology, or a gamma ray burst, you know there. Um, there's so many more ways this could go wrong than it could ever even go halfway right, especially what you're saying with the expansion of the universe, and depending on which direction you're going within the universe, how the expansion is occurring, because you have to imagine that's time like, if you're traveling billions of years, the way light functions, you know, and the expansion you you could be the billions of years could be exponentially greater. Mm hmm. Yeah, And that's that's the problem. They're moving goalposts. So let's say if other galaxies are right out, then let's talk a little bit of out our neck of the woods. Let's talk about the Milky Way. So the Milky Way, our galaxy contains about four hundred billion stars billion with a b of that four billion around twenty billion um. Look a lot like the Sun. Yeah, So up to a fifth of these are about four billion have planets that orbit within what we call the habitable zone. Uh, sort of a Goldilocks kind of vibe. Not too hot, not too cold, just right. If only point one percent of those star systems point one percent harbor life, um, we'd still be looking at a million planets with some sort of life. And what we have to note on in that regard is that when we say some form of life, we're not instantly talking space faring civilizations. Quite the opposite. I'll probably like micro organism, rocking microbes. Yeah, microbes. Maybe maybe if we're lucky, some kind of higher order multicellular life, but makes me think of these, uh, these little guys called the water bears, tartegrades is what they're called. And they you know, scientists froze them and then revived them after you know, a decade or something like that. Very very resilient, little little little guys. Seems that they can survive space travel even without a helmet. Yeah, which just kind of if we got weird stuff like this on our plan if it's so resilient and that could exist outside of our again very specific set of conditions that we are, you know, um kind of built for. I see no reason why this could not exist outside of our you know. Well, here's another note, and I'm really I'm really glad you brought that up, because we have to assume that we have to factor in age as well as size. So the Milky Way is around thirteen billion years old after the first For the first few billion, it was sort of a bad neighborhood. Stuff was exploding, things were smashing together. Plan It's like a lot of planets weren't quite planets yet. It was it was people probably or life force probably didn't live there during the first billion years if there anything like us, because which again that's a tremendous assumption because they would be obliterated so quickly. Even think about things like the formation of the continents, you know, and plates just smashing up against one another. You know, we don't. We haven't really experienced anything like that in our lifetime. It's just where such a blip. And this idea that you're talking about about the age makes me think of things like, you know, the ancient ones, the elder ones, you know, like you, And that's that's an interest. Okay, yes, we're gonna tie this in because Earth is a new kid on the block. Earth is uh well over four billion years old, which is just nothing. That's that's chump changed. This means that way before our planet became a thing, the Milky Way had trillions of chances of opportunities for life to be created, to to uh life to exist. And you know a lot of planets came and went before we ever showed up or moved in. So that means if only one such civilization existed before us and created space travel, this will fundamentally change our understanding of the universe. And you know, we always think of because of science fiction We always think of an alien species that can uh, that has space faring technology as being a future oriented, advanced thing, but it maybe, to your point, a much older and ancient and eldritch thing, and it certainly would give them the time to have developed a different set of technolo apology or to be more advanced, because again, you look at the timeline of Earth and um you know what we've what it's taken us to create the technology and the um you know, society that we have today. I think if we had a million years accomplished that stuff. You know, every time I we talked about this stuff, I think about that game the Massive or Mass Effect. Have you played Mass Effect at all or heard about it? Okay? Well, alright, Ben, Well in that in that game you and I think I've talked about this before on here, but we in that game, once a civilization gets advanced enough to travel a certain distance from their planet, they will encounter this ancient, old technology that is massive and what it can do is essentially, uh, have you jumped with light speed to a different part of the galaxy. But there was an ancient, ancient civilization that created these things in order to traverse the entire galaxies because collects the Harbingers, and I don't want to give things away, but but there is that, Yes, there's an ancient civilization. And what you're saying Ben in here is that let's say that one of those really did exist in the Milky Way, Uh, civilization that could do that if if it was true and in the real world, and they built these ships capable of taking you know, thousand year long trips to get to one part of the galaxy to the other and then build this huge technology. It would take millions and millions of years to achieve some of these things, to colonize the entire galaxy, or to at least visit the entire galaxy, Which means then that if this, if some ancient civilization existed, uh, there would be there. There would be time, enough time if they were around can and this is such a tremendous house of cards yet that the question would be where are they? And that is the million dollar or shall we say, the billion light year question originally posed by the legendary physicists and Rico Faremi. This is the Faremi paradox. If everything we know about the Milky Way and the larger universe assures us that other forms of life are likely, if not near inevitable. Then why have we not found any? Why have we not found one? There are a few possibilities, you guys want a laundry list them. Yeah, maybe it's just extremely difficult for life itself to begin. We we don't really know exactly the mechanisms that make life occur on a planet. We know a non living things. Yes, we we know that there are situations which are extremely beneficial, like being in the habitable zone near a star and having an atmosphere and all of these other things. But you know, getting an atmosphere is a huge ordeal in its own right. Or then maybe it's just really really difficult for life to evolve past a certain point, so to like the earlier point you made. No, maybe most aliens are single celled, relatively primitive organisms. So maybe the entire universe, like the Milky Way, used to be a lot more dangerous to life, just made it unsustainable. But imagine a past that's filled with gamma ray bursts and exploding stars and black holes, wandering black holes, radiation, all kinds of existential threats, you know, or or just go back to the earlier note about evolution. Maybe we just haven't gotten to the next big evolutionary hurdle. We haven't gotten over it. It's possible, I guess that we could invent technology that has species ending consequences. Nuclear weaponry, which we already have obviously good rent could go wrong, that's safe. Well, it could render the entire planet completely uninhabitable. Might not even take something as immediate as a nuclear weapon. We could just do it to ourselves with you know, climate change and you know, the right kind of weaponized disease, or maybe Alphabet or another big company hundreds of years from now will invent essentially what is a new species through technology that can then or will have to take over for us once organic life can't exist or maybe hundreds of months. That's yeah. This goes into something that the machine consciousness thing is something that we I'm glad you mentioned because we're going to get into that too. Here's the scariest one, in my opinion, what if another highly sophisticated UH class three kind of civilization does exist, able to traverse the galaxy with technology such that not only is it UH not only does it seem part of the natural world to us, but it is godlike, And what if this civilization seeks out life forms that evolved past a certain point, you know, whatever that point, maybe maybe before you find whatever magic technology it is that allows you to traverse space, and what if it destroys them? Yeah, out of self preservation. I mean, you don't want anyone else coming out in and destroying your ships or fighting over resources. I mean maybe that could really be a thing. And and the other factory your course is time. As we mentioned previous in the previous podcast about contacting aliens, the likelihood of other life forms is existing is high, It's very high. But the likelihood of them existing at the same time as our life forms is likely much much lower, just because there's so much time involved. Guys, one more possibility. I'm this is something that Noel and uh I guess since the previous podcast to kind of talked about and I can't remember if it made it on the air, but um, let's okay, No, maybe you should explain it. What if all biological entities are just stepping stones to another phase of evolution entirely like machine minds or created life. This is fascinating to me because it certainly feels like space is not the right environment for biological life. Right. There are a lot of things, the processes that we do, that we have to do in order to maintain our existence as a human or as any biological living thing that just aren't conducive to an environment that's enclosed, like in a spaceship or something like that. I don't know. Well, it's painful for the human ego, I'm sure, but it may well be true. You know, what is what is more within the reach of our seas Is it to modify ourselves and our issue such that we are better adapted to interstellar exploration? Or is it closer within our reach? You know? Are we Are we the primates that give way to the next step? Are we the bacteria that are you know? Are we the unicellular organism that creates something multicellular? You know? It's it's strange because we tend to think that we are the masters, yeah, the end result, the masters of our own evolution. That there was a poem you and I got close to quoting a few podcasts to go with the Master of My Fate, The Captain of my soul? Is it black as the night that covers me, Dark as the night that covers me black as pitch from pull to pull. I thank whatever God may be for my unconquerable soul. I can't arrest we. I think it's called but uh, it's it's a very human thing, you know what I mean? And it may not be true. The id the idea of being somewhere low on the evolutionary chain is almost like as incomprehensible as imagining what it's like to to be dead, to not exist, you know, like try to wrap your just think about like what what what what does it feel like to not experience? To you know, I mean, it's you can it can't. You can't do it right because the thought itself is an experience. And so to me, like to think of what would it be like to evolve beyond myself, beyond beyond what I am, the equipment that I have mentally, physically, any of that still very incomprehensive. Yeah, it's the old question of if we make, if we make robotic uh like hard drive copies of us, if we scan our brains and our personalities with a fidelity such that they would be an exact copy, you know, does that is that us? And if so, what are we? But now it's time for us to get to something that hopefully listeners, ladies and gentlemen, friends and neighbors, you will enjoy as well. We are going to talk about whether, despite all these all these things, all these numbers, all these statistics we have looked at, we're going to talk about whether there's any evidence something like an alien or extraterrestrial has visited Earth. But first a word from response. Here's where it gets crazy. This is this is an even bigger question, have aliens visited Earth? Let's let's talk about UFOs because we're not the first people to ask this question. Oh no, no, no, no no. This is a huge question has been around since I guess since we've been looking at the stars really and trying to understand what the heck they are? What is that giant glowing? Yeah, we've been wondering like what put that there? How did that get there? Is it something that some outside force did? Can I go to their? Can that go to me? Yeah? Yeah, very very simple questions that are actually pretty big. Um. So if we look at if we kind of zoom through the human histories, we get to in a time right after World War Two when there were a lot of sightings of things in the sky a lot of times at night, sometimes during the day. Uh that appeared a bit strange, out of the ordinary, that regular old Joe's like you and me, Noel and Ben just look up and go, huh, that's weird. So the Air Force decided they were going to look into these things UFOs in particular. They began in night and it was a thing they called Projects Sign where they were looking at sightings of UFOs and just kind of collecting as much data as they could on them, trying to see if they could explain them through uh means like a balloon in the air or test going on with an aircraft, even things such as lightning or you know, lights in the sky. And then in let see, that was called Project Sign and it was then they changed their name to Project Grudge, which was a kind of a separate project where they were going through and essentially trying to debunk the findings of Project Sign or just to explain all of them away, because there were there were a couple of things, a couple sightings that were considered unexplained still and then in nineteen fifty three it kind of had its third little iteration, which became a thing that you probably have heard of, and we've talked about before on this show, called Project blue Book, not to be confused with the Kelly Blue Book or a Project blue Beam, nor the blue books that you perhaps were issued when you had to do writing tests. True, so this became Project blue Book in three. But they were all pursuing similar things in different ways. Yes, And between ninety and nineteen sixty nine, the Air Force investigated twelve thousand, six hundred and eighteen reported UFO sightings. And in this report that talks about the findings of Project blue Book, grudge and sign and uh nor could you read that of these total sightings, eleven thousand, nine hundred and seventeen were found to have been caused by material objects such as balloons, satellites and aircrafts, immaterial objects such as lightning reflections, and other natural phenomena, astronomical objects such as stars, planets, and the sun and moon, weather conditions, and hoaxes. As indicated, only seven d and one reported sightings remain unexplained. Great job, noll. I would object to the language that I uses, however, because only seven one. That's sort of right, that it's not sort of that there's no reason for me to add on some kind of crappy modifier words to that. That's absolutely attempting to unsuccessfully in my opinion. Uh Bury the lead, Yeah, downplay it like crazy in the official report. So what were their official conclusions? Okay, so they had three official conclusions. One, no UFO reported, investigated and evaluated by the Air Force has ever given any indication of threat to our national security. That's a big word, you know, that word, very important national security. There has been no evidence submitted to or discovered by the Air Force that sightings categorized as unidentified present technological developments or principles beyond the range of present day scientific knowledge. And Three, there has been no evidence indicating that sightings categorized as unidentified are extraterrestrial vehicles. And then in sixty nine they terminated the project, right, Yes, that's correct, And I think I think it was President Carter that wanted to kind of start back up blue Book, not necessarily the project blue Book itself, but he wanted the Air Force to look into unidentified flying objects again, and they turned him down because because well, yes, because he saw one, and I guess he just thought it was a good idea, but the Air Force looked back at these reports and just said, Nah, we're not gonna do that. That's something that we hear often enough every time a president is newly elected, not re elected, but newly elected. Clinton, Right, Clinton was one. I think Bush may have meant one of the bushes and made some statements about it. Probably W. Probably not h W given his past in the CIA. Barack Obama mentioned it. Numerous presidential nominees will say I will look into this and what ever they find out, you know, it's not been published, which goes to the idea of the disclosure project. Let's also talk about since we we talked about the idea of this vast chronological scale, let's explore the um conversations people have about ancient alien visitations, the legends of someone landing from Afar, the tie ins with biblical creatures such as the Nephelum who fell from the sky and taught man agriculture while also sleeping with as many people as they could. Right, Uh, so we're the Nephelum. Rather, let me amend that the Nephelum were the result of those sorts of unions. So you will often hear ladies and gentlemen arguments that these are these stories, these oral histories that were later written down, are evidence of some other life form from beyond the stars, jump starting human evolution or human social evolution. I I I have to admit, I kind of like these stories, at least the idea underlying these stories, because when you if you think about it logically, you kind of get lost and you start doubting that this could ever be true. But when you I like the ideas of time and how large our galaxy is and how long it's been around, and how relatively young the Earth is. I like the idea that perhaps there was some mass, massive, um intelligent, perhaps even technological life that that existed in the universe or even in our galaxy, that somehow seated our planet. And I really like the I think that's kind of what the story is in Ridley Scott's latest Aliens franchise film. Yeah, that actually came to mind that a lot of this stuff just about, like you know, the engineers in that film seem to be sort of like the next stage of our evolution. So, yeah, this is this is a good topic because I was I was planning to bring this up as well. The theory of pan spermium as a horrible name, but it is probably one of the biggest potential discoveries that we can make, along with tracing the origin or figuring out the providence of the Wow signal, which you know, of course, is the one of the most anomalous signals received from space. We have done an episode touching on that. You can check it out where we're talking about alien contact, the idea of microbial alien life coming to Earth. The idea of this pan spermia theory is in many ways of the plausible ancient alien idea, and it seems um what do I say plausible, I mean comparatively plausible. It seems that this could be in the cards if there were an extraterrestrial higher order being that came to Earth and sometime in the ancient past. Uh. I believe that most civilizations or researchers would want everyone to know about it. If, however, they came during a modern time, somehow, I believe that there would be an air of secrecy just given them. Given the fact that we live in a globally connected world in which many state actors and corporations are in constant dirty competition, but in in this alien ancient alien theory, it would be that perhaps they visited before humanity had evolved into a conscious mind, to a hunter gatherer situation, because then the idea would have been that instead of being capable of learning on their own, early Homo sapiens had somebody appear out of the sky and plant and teach them how to plant things. Uh. The clearly you know a long time less news. Uh. You know that I have personally quarreled with this because I think there's a lot of institutionalized racism in ancient alien theories. I'll spare everyone in the conversation I bring up when this stuff happens, just to say, you know, if you hear someone tell you that there's no way ancient Egyptian civilization could have made the Pyramids, don't just believe them. Look into the vast amount of research people have done about recreating them. So at this point, I don't know where else do you want to go with us. I would just say that if you're you've probably already seen everything that you could ever see about ancient alien theory through the History Channel or H two, or basically by turning on your television and being near those channels. Um, you'll you've probably learned everything about the NASCAR lines. We've covered that before. We don't. I don't think we need to go back over it. We've covered the via manas, the flying machines, and ancient Indian ethics. I'd like to look into those and more depth at some point. I think it's fast and you know, warrants its own its own podcast, because listeners, if you're familiar with this, this is the idea that, uh, in ancient Indian civilizations there were flying machines that were invented, and that there was actually something very close to an ancient nuclear war. So we can check that one out for sure. I don't know, but see also that doesn't necessarily mean that aliens did it. Ancient civilization did it, and we're just catting the cycle of building nuclear weapons and then destroying civilization, and then building nuclear weapons and then destroying civilization. The argument of great filters that civil that alien civilizations tend to self destruct before they ever get to the point where they could communicate with other people seems pretty likely. Well, that's all I've got. Certainly, something we see, you know, repeating itself, even in the short relatively short history of our own planet. You know, great civilizations kind of crumbling and then being replaced. Oh and that's a that's a scary thing to how how how foolish would it sound to an outside civilization to land right after some devastating war and to say, well, these, this group of animals was, this group of biological life forms was close to getting into interstellar travel. But because their tribes didn't get along, they killed everybody. They didn't have like a fight club thing with like two leaders, do get it out. No, they said, everybody dies. And the fish are like us too, And they're like, yes, because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time, cosmically speaking to right. And and when we when, when we think about this, how how strange this could be? It also brings up a very specific thing that just reminded me of No. I. If you think about the rise and fall of empires, many historians have tried to trace this, to find a pattern to the cycle, right a frequency, and and if you look at the empire that is currently the United States, it's anomalous right now. And while you know, we as people don't haven't there's no one who's been alive as long as the U S has that we know of. Uh So, it seems like it's stable and it seems like it's solid, but it's early days yet that's just because inside of it. And how long will it continue? Will it be or will it be around when when we see some sort of alien civilization, when humanity or humanities successors strike out to the stars. Let us know what you think, folks. Let us know if you think there have been instances of alien contact. Let us know if you think we'll ever find it. Let us know if you think space is a place for biological entities like us, or if we are just here just sort of be the midwives for a new form of life. You can find us some face speaking Twitter where conspiracy stuff there, and you can check out every audio podcast that Noel, Matt and I have ever done, and there are quite a few now at our website. Stuff they don't want you to know dot com. And if you don't want to do any of that, but you still want to talk to us, because why not? What a check? You can send us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy and how stuff works. Dot

From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noll, and I am then today. Hopefully you are still you. Thanks for dropping by. That makes this stuff they don't want you to know. And boy, we've been doing uh, we've been doing a lot of doozies. This is the first time in a while that all three of us have been in the studio together. I have returned everyone. Yes, this is the real journeys, I tell you, gentlemen. Being on a naval base, a huge naval base that was once a couple of separated institutions that are now all one big thing. It's fascinating going through all the security to retrieve the launch codes. You're not supposed to talk about that here. No, Well, the badgers out of the bag. What's what's the happens? Beat the badger back into the bag. So, guys, what happened while I was there is I got to watch about five hundred young I guess they're petty officers. They are They all graduated from the Nuclear Power School in different varying degrees. Some of them are officers, some of them will be moving on to go work on a sub whole another set of lingo right for positions in the names right, So these are not like shallow bad people. Their actual title is petty officer. Yeah, and my brother in law, he was the person I went to go see. He actually very much dislikes that title, but yes, it was. It was super cool to see all these guys who are younger than me, who are going to be going and working on just huge nuclear powered machines that they are going to be essentially running the furnaces, you know, like just making it all happen and running all the systems. Oh, that's pretty cool. I'd like to have that knowledge. Well that this brings us to an interesting point. UH listeners, we'd love to hear any of your military or naval related stories if you have some experience, because it is an entirely different world and it's something that if if you think there's something hidden or interesting that the average non uh non military member just wouldn't think about or wouldn't know, UH, and you'd like the rest of your fellow listeners to hear it, then write to us or send us a tweet or um, what's a Facebook message? I've got one for you. Right before we go in, I did not know that most of our countries nuclear power systems, just the ones that generate power that's mostly run by the Navy. I didn't know that. Yeah, it's true. I I thought I thought they were simply training people four ships and for submarines and things like that. But it's to maintain the infrastructure of our nuclear power. Speaking of correspondence, and we had some folks right in and we we asked if this should go at the beginning of the end. We're going to keep it at the beginning this time, and and see we feel about it. But ladies and gentlemen, it is time for our shout out corner. Shout out corners, Yes, shout out corner, the moment in the show where every week we go to your comments, your tweets, your community case and we attach a shout out, a personal touch to send it back out at you. So today we have several. The first one comes from Eric or at Eric, who says every three minutes of the show should have a shout out. And now any one for myself. So fair, Eric, here's your shout out. Thank you for the feedback. This was visa vs. Should the shout out corner be at the top of the show or the bottom of the show. Clearly Eric is in the former camp. Well he has gone a third way. Eric, We'll make a compromise. What what you can do is play that shout out part every every three minutes, repute every five whenever you wish. I think it'll be tough for us to do a shout out every three minutes. That sounds kind of we'd have to be a live show, and then it would be confusing. We would need a fourth person just to supply all of the shoutouts just while we're going. I think, what if the shout out? What if we were fueled by shoutouts? What if that was the only way we could continue is every three minutes we recharged with a shout out. I don't know, man, kind of like we've talked about shoutouts as currency, why not shoutouts as sustenance? You know this is this is We're gonna tie this in in a weird way. Uh. Later on in today's podcast, actually and I love do you point out sustenance. Who's next? You want to go? You want me to go? Matt. The next shout out goes out to Steward Lucky. He sent us an email. We see him all over the place, guys on our periscope, sending us messages on our Twitter all the time. Starts. Stewart's really cool and he always is interacting with us. So guess what, Stewart, huge shout out to you. You send us something about the tiger stripes in the Kumtang desert in northwest China. It looks really interesting. Have you guys seen an image of this? Yeah, I've seen some images. Yeah, it's really cool. He says. Could this have something to do with perhaps a Chinese harp system? Maybe be, But the way it looks, it looks very very different to me. I would you know, I would love to look into this more and get back get back to you on that. With this is like a pattern that you can see in a flyover or something I don't know right, you can see on Google Earth came. So it can't be that that secret because as we know, Google Earth will cow taw to any state level oreganization that request. It removes something what a nightmare. That job must be going in and scrubbing all the yeah and pixelating it and people you can probably tell if you know what you're looking at, if you find the right spot and you say, wow, these trees or this sand became suddenly sixteen biddish. Yeah. That's very much a repeating pattern here. So our last last shot is to Ashley Wazner or Wazner who suggested we look into the strange noises in the sky that have been documented on video across the world. This is an interesting one. I think a few years ago we had heard about this. Some people have said trumpets in the sky. Some people had mentioned it's tied as well with the idea of the hum or some something of that nature. So these are all great suggestions. We're gonna look into these, and thank you for writing to us. If you would like a shout out, then, as always, drop us a line where conspiracy stuff on Facebook, Twitter, and we're uh, I don't know, we're kind of all over the internet nowadays, right, we got the Internet going nuts. And that concludes the shoutout corner. Let's go right into this. Have you guys, have you matter you know seeing a UFO I can I cannot say that I have or not. I do not believe that I have seen a UFO officially, Well, guys, as it happens, I have seen what I would consider unidentified to me, and I was not able to identify it after the fact. And it was a very unusual peculiar shape that I'm not used to seeing at the at the height in the sky that I was seeing it. Um. So, in a past life, I once was a poor touring musician um with a group of Satanists called the hell Blinky sex tet Um. We were released Satanists, but the name of the band was the hell Blinky sextet Um. They're actually still around and shout out to Andrew Benjamin and and all the hell Blinky folks. They played Dragon Con, they play They're they're kind of a steampunk type band. That was was sort of a little goth kid playing the violin with my uh, with my goatee and my black clothes. Anywhere, Yeah, I can, we can post a picture. Um. Anyway, we were on a tour and we were traveling through the Midwest in a rented van and um, you know, it was in Illinois or somewhere. I remember there was a lot of corn a lot of corn fields. I've never really um road tripped in that part of the country before, so I was kind of taking it in and looking out the window. I had a little handicam back in the day, was one of the first little HD sony handicams, and UM I was shooting footage of the window, and um, over the corn fields, kind of far into the horizon, I saw what looked like sort of a strange geometric, clely shaped object. It was. It was kind of like a diamond shape um or maybe like almost like a like a trapezoid kind of I remember it had very angular and it was it was just hovering and it wasn't close. It was clearly very far. But the size that it was for how you know. And again, the perspective is strange out there when you're in very flat land. It's hard to kind of judge distance as well. And I wasn't really used to, you know, seeing things in this part of the country, so it was very jarring. And I did get it on video, and for whatever reason, I do not have the tape anymore. I know that's sort of likely story. But at your house, no nobody showed up at my house. But they probably just figured that, you know, my dumb self would lose the thing in which I did, and so I was no threat to anyone trying to cover anything else. Well, here's the thing with the men in Black, if if you were in fact visited by them, you would have no recollection with Yeah, it's like being roofy by the men And luck did the UFO have any lights on it or it was during the day, it's the thing, So it was in the middle of the day and it you know, it was just very strange. And the funny thing is, I've looked, even like in the X Files and in shows like that where they have uh photos of supposed UFO sightings. What I saw it looked very similar to some of these sightings. And I remember there's an episode in the X Files, I forget which one it was, where there was some sort of top secret government craft that would like it was really really fast and it was you know, setting the ground on fire because it was remember that one. Anyway, it looked like kind of what one of those would have been what would have looked like. But it was really strange, and to this day have not been able to justify figure out what it was. Um, you know, very, very very that's fascinating. And we've had, we've had, especially recently, a lot of people right in to say, hey, guys, here's the story I have. I cannot explain it, but I wanted to tell you about it. And we appreciate those and maybe when we compile enough we can read them on air and maybe a UFO listener mail episode. Um, this brought us to a big question we wanted to ask today and you have maybe asked yourself this before, which is where the heck are all the aliens? Where all the extraterrestrials seems like they would be around, right? Absolutely? So, okay, this is this is something that blows my mind when you think about it. Whenever we hear people arguing about alien life or extraterrestrial stuff, and it's automatically treated as some sort of tinfoil clap trap. Those people are not exhibiting those critics rather or not exhibiting critical thinking when they say that there are no aliens. We can walk through this because there's this huge paradox, right, given this this, given the size of the universe, it is, let's just through the numbers so the observable universe is about ninety billion light years in diameter, just the part we can see, just that part. In that billion light years, there at least a hundred billion galaxies, and planets like the one we live on are pretty common. They're not They're not rare by any means. This means that there are trillions of possibly habitable planets. And this leads us to the number one thing that blows my mind. The odds are on our side. With the size of the universe, it is almost completely inevitable that some other form of life exists or did exist, or will exist. Here's the downer to this beautiful thought, right, Uh, the same thing that means is that aliens definitely exists, and where life definitely exists in the universe also guarantees that these other forms of life, um probably won't ever come into contact with us, or we won't come into contact with them, and and that's a very unfortunate thing. But it just it's because we're so vastly far away, right, Yeah, So when you look at the odds, think of our area of the universe like a neighborhood, right, And let's call our neighborhood the Milky Way. So these other life forms may very likely not be in our neighborhood. They might be in a different neighborhood. And the reason that this sucks so bad for us is because we will probably never get to see them, even if we have great technology, because the universe is expanding. But whenever the stuff comes up in you know, pop culture tropes and fiction, it's always like the aliens just have to make contact with us because we are so fascinating and great and or awful if they want to annihilate us, right, And that's you know, from a logical standpoint, there's some disturbing things in there. We get this, like, even if we had an amazingly fast spacecraft, right uh, And even if we somehow had a social organization or dynamic that allowed us to be in a spacecraft for a long time and not kill each other and reproduce effectively and still be cool about everything, it would still take us billions of years to travel to another another cosmic neighborhood, yeah, to another galaxy, right to escape. And even if we could escape our galaxy, we're not even exactly sure what we're going to encounter. From a physics standpoint, leaving a galaxy because there there are all of these effects on on gravitational fields and all these other things that when you're inside the safety of even a solar system, when you're trying to escape that they're's they're huge dangers that we possibly haven't even accounted for yet. Right, and let's remember that those dangers would it goes both ways. Another civilization attempting to come to Earth would also run into those things, if it we're not from the Milky Way and in between those neighborhoods, it's the deep, it's the ink. Yeah, it's a very specific set of conditions that give us the atmosphere and then the gravity that we experience. And you know that's why astronauts need such intense equipment when they you know, even go just outside of our atmosphere. Right, yeah, and this this ties into something else. Let's get weird with it. Let's assume or play a thought game with us, folks. Let's uh, let's imagine that humanity gets its collective junk together, right where a family show gets its lective stuff together, cooperates and builds some kind of multi generational spaceship and arc of sorts. Yes, yeah, essentially, and this thing would be capable of traveling billions of years. And we have detected somehow a signal from a nearby galaxy, and we we say, well, we have the technology to build something that will last billions of years. We're going to take this gigantic leap, and we are going to spend more time than ever in humanity and a conscious pursuit of a single endeavor. Here's the stuff that would happen that we would be strange. Even if we survived, I had some kind of cohesive social structure, we ourselves would probably evolve along the way due to the exposure, the compromises we would have to make to this other, uh, this other environment in which we would live, Which means that even if everything else went right, and even if there were still some things, some other intelligent thing to find when we got there, whatever did land and comes out of that spaceship would no longer really be human. That's crazy to think about. So even for that alone, we wouldn't be there. And did there are ways we could get around it. Let's imagine if we did cryogenics, you know, some kind of hibernation. What if we sent robots which honestly, is probably the the next step. What if we just sent robots that had our DNA and said, you know, do us a solid and make some of us once you get to a cool part, and they would go, it's a little weird, I don't know. No, No, it would be great. As long as they didn't have any kind of extensive historical documentation about humanity, then they would be well. Of course, once we get to this point where we can create an arc, at least in this world that we've created here, perhaps humanity has moved on from our past aggressiveness and all of that. But that's that's the strange thing, right, Matt, Like, none of that matters. None of all these very heady scientific fiction type things we've mentioned matter. If the destination star explodes, if the civilization perishes, perhaps due to nuclear war, due to some other technology, or a gamma ray burst, you know there. Um, there's so many more ways this could go wrong than it could ever even go halfway right, especially what you're saying with the expansion of the universe, and depending on which direction you're going within the universe, how the expansion is occurring, because you have to imagine that's time like, if you're traveling billions of years, the way light functions, you know, and the expansion you you could be the billions of years could be exponentially greater. Mm hmm. Yeah, And that's that's the problem. They're moving goalposts. So let's say if other galaxies are right out, then let's talk a little bit of out our neck of the woods. Let's talk about the Milky Way. So the Milky Way, our galaxy contains about four hundred billion stars billion with a b of that four billion around twenty billion um. Look a lot like the Sun. Yeah, So up to a fifth of these are about four billion have planets that orbit within what we call the habitable zone. Uh, sort of a Goldilocks kind of vibe. Not too hot, not too cold, just right. If only point one percent of those star systems point one percent harbor life, um, we'd still be looking at a million planets with some sort of life. And what we have to note on in that regard is that when we say some form of life, we're not instantly talking space faring civilizations. Quite the opposite. I'll probably like micro organism, rocking microbes. Yeah, microbes. Maybe maybe if we're lucky, some kind of higher order multicellular life, but makes me think of these, uh, these little guys called the water bears, tartegrades is what they're called. And they you know, scientists froze them and then revived them after you know, a decade or something like that. Very very resilient, little little little guys. Seems that they can survive space travel even without a helmet. Yeah, which just kind of if we got weird stuff like this on our plan if it's so resilient and that could exist outside of our again very specific set of conditions that we are, you know, um kind of built for. I see no reason why this could not exist outside of our you know. Well, here's another note, and I'm really I'm really glad you brought that up, because we have to assume that we have to factor in age as well as size. So the Milky Way is around thirteen billion years old after the first For the first few billion, it was sort of a bad neighborhood. Stuff was exploding, things were smashing together. Plan It's like a lot of planets weren't quite planets yet. It was it was people probably or life force probably didn't live there during the first billion years if there anything like us, because which again that's a tremendous assumption because they would be obliterated so quickly. Even think about things like the formation of the continents, you know, and plates just smashing up against one another. You know, we don't. We haven't really experienced anything like that in our lifetime. It's just where such a blip. And this idea that you're talking about about the age makes me think of things like, you know, the ancient ones, the elder ones, you know, like you, And that's that's an interest. Okay, yes, we're gonna tie this in because Earth is a new kid on the block. Earth is uh well over four billion years old, which is just nothing. That's that's chump changed. This means that way before our planet became a thing, the Milky Way had trillions of chances of opportunities for life to be created, to to uh life to exist. And you know a lot of planets came and went before we ever showed up or moved in. So that means if only one such civilization existed before us and created space travel, this will fundamentally change our understanding of the universe. And you know, we always think of because of science fiction We always think of an alien species that can uh, that has space faring technology as being a future oriented, advanced thing, but it maybe, to your point, a much older and ancient and eldritch thing, and it certainly would give them the time to have developed a different set of technolo apology or to be more advanced, because again, you look at the timeline of Earth and um you know what we've what it's taken us to create the technology and the um you know, society that we have today. I think if we had a million years accomplished that stuff. You know, every time I we talked about this stuff, I think about that game the Massive or Mass Effect. Have you played Mass Effect at all or heard about it? Okay? Well, alright, Ben, Well in that in that game you and I think I've talked about this before on here, but we in that game, once a civilization gets advanced enough to travel a certain distance from their planet, they will encounter this ancient, old technology that is massive and what it can do is essentially, uh, have you jumped with light speed to a different part of the galaxy. But there was an ancient, ancient civilization that created these things in order to traverse the entire galaxies because collects the Harbingers, and I don't want to give things away, but but there is that, Yes, there's an ancient civilization. And what you're saying Ben in here is that let's say that one of those really did exist in the Milky Way, Uh, civilization that could do that if if it was true and in the real world, and they built these ships capable of taking you know, thousand year long trips to get to one part of the galaxy to the other and then build this huge technology. It would take millions and millions of years to achieve some of these things, to colonize the entire galaxy, or to at least visit the entire galaxy, Which means then that if this, if some ancient civilization existed, uh, there would be there. There would be time, enough time if they were around can and this is such a tremendous house of cards yet that the question would be where are they? And that is the million dollar or shall we say, the billion light year question originally posed by the legendary physicists and Rico Faremi. This is the Faremi paradox. If everything we know about the Milky Way and the larger universe assures us that other forms of life are likely, if not near inevitable. Then why have we not found any? Why have we not found one? There are a few possibilities, you guys want a laundry list them. Yeah, maybe it's just extremely difficult for life itself to begin. We we don't really know exactly the mechanisms that make life occur on a planet. We know a non living things. Yes, we we know that there are situations which are extremely beneficial, like being in the habitable zone near a star and having an atmosphere and all of these other things. But you know, getting an atmosphere is a huge ordeal in its own right. Or then maybe it's just really really difficult for life to evolve past a certain point, so to like the earlier point you made. No, maybe most aliens are single celled, relatively primitive organisms. So maybe the entire universe, like the Milky Way, used to be a lot more dangerous to life, just made it unsustainable. But imagine a past that's filled with gamma ray bursts and exploding stars and black holes, wandering black holes, radiation, all kinds of existential threats, you know, or or just go back to the earlier note about evolution. Maybe we just haven't gotten to the next big evolutionary hurdle. We haven't gotten over it. It's possible, I guess that we could invent technology that has species ending consequences. Nuclear weaponry, which we already have obviously good rent could go wrong, that's safe. Well, it could render the entire planet completely uninhabitable. Might not even take something as immediate as a nuclear weapon. We could just do it to ourselves with you know, climate change and you know, the right kind of weaponized disease, or maybe Alphabet or another big company hundreds of years from now will invent essentially what is a new species through technology that can then or will have to take over for us once organic life can't exist or maybe hundreds of months. That's yeah. This goes into something that the machine consciousness thing is something that we I'm glad you mentioned because we're going to get into that too. Here's the scariest one, in my opinion, what if another highly sophisticated UH class three kind of civilization does exist, able to traverse the galaxy with technology such that not only is it UH not only does it seem part of the natural world to us, but it is godlike, And what if this civilization seeks out life forms that evolved past a certain point, you know, whatever that point, maybe maybe before you find whatever magic technology it is that allows you to traverse space, and what if it destroys them? Yeah, out of self preservation. I mean, you don't want anyone else coming out in and destroying your ships or fighting over resources. I mean maybe that could really be a thing. And and the other factory your course is time. As we mentioned previous in the previous podcast about contacting aliens, the likelihood of other life forms is existing is high, It's very high. But the likelihood of them existing at the same time as our life forms is likely much much lower, just because there's so much time involved. Guys, one more possibility. I'm this is something that Noel and uh I guess since the previous podcast to kind of talked about and I can't remember if it made it on the air, but um, let's okay, No, maybe you should explain it. What if all biological entities are just stepping stones to another phase of evolution entirely like machine minds or created life. This is fascinating to me because it certainly feels like space is not the right environment for biological life. Right. There are a lot of things, the processes that we do, that we have to do in order to maintain our existence as a human or as any biological living thing that just aren't conducive to an environment that's enclosed, like in a spaceship or something like that. I don't know. Well, it's painful for the human ego, I'm sure, but it may well be true. You know, what is what is more within the reach of our seas Is it to modify ourselves and our issue such that we are better adapted to interstellar exploration? Or is it closer within our reach? You know? Are we Are we the primates that give way to the next step? Are we the bacteria that are you know? Are we the unicellular organism that creates something multicellular? You know? It's it's strange because we tend to think that we are the masters, yeah, the end result, the masters of our own evolution. That there was a poem you and I got close to quoting a few podcasts to go with the Master of My Fate, The Captain of my soul? Is it black as the night that covers me, Dark as the night that covers me black as pitch from pull to pull. I thank whatever God may be for my unconquerable soul. I can't arrest we. I think it's called but uh, it's it's a very human thing, you know what I mean? And it may not be true. The id the idea of being somewhere low on the evolutionary chain is almost like as incomprehensible as imagining what it's like to to be dead, to not exist, you know, like try to wrap your just think about like what what what what does it feel like to not experience? To you know, I mean, it's you can it can't. You can't do it right because the thought itself is an experience. And so to me, like to think of what would it be like to evolve beyond myself, beyond beyond what I am, the equipment that I have mentally, physically, any of that still very incomprehensive. Yeah, it's the old question of if we make, if we make robotic uh like hard drive copies of us, if we scan our brains and our personalities with a fidelity such that they would be an exact copy, you know, does that is that us? And if so, what are we? But now it's time for us to get to something that hopefully listeners, ladies and gentlemen, friends and neighbors, you will enjoy as well. We are going to talk about whether, despite all these all these things, all these numbers, all these statistics we have looked at, we're going to talk about whether there's any evidence something like an alien or extraterrestrial has visited Earth. But first a word from response. Here's where it gets crazy. This is this is an even bigger question, have aliens visited Earth? Let's let's talk about UFOs because we're not the first people to ask this question. Oh no, no, no, no no. This is a huge question has been around since I guess since we've been looking at the stars really and trying to understand what the heck they are? What is that giant glowing? Yeah, we've been wondering like what put that there? How did that get there? Is it something that some outside force did? Can I go to their? Can that go to me? Yeah? Yeah, very very simple questions that are actually pretty big. Um. So if we look at if we kind of zoom through the human histories, we get to in a time right after World War Two when there were a lot of sightings of things in the sky a lot of times at night, sometimes during the day. Uh that appeared a bit strange, out of the ordinary, that regular old Joe's like you and me, Noel and Ben just look up and go, huh, that's weird. So the Air Force decided they were going to look into these things UFOs in particular. They began in night and it was a thing they called Projects Sign where they were looking at sightings of UFOs and just kind of collecting as much data as they could on them, trying to see if they could explain them through uh means like a balloon in the air or test going on with an aircraft, even things such as lightning or you know, lights in the sky. And then in let see, that was called Project Sign and it was then they changed their name to Project Grudge, which was a kind of a separate project where they were going through and essentially trying to debunk the findings of Project Sign or just to explain all of them away, because there were there were a couple of things, a couple sightings that were considered unexplained still and then in nineteen fifty three it kind of had its third little iteration, which became a thing that you probably have heard of, and we've talked about before on this show, called Project blue Book, not to be confused with the Kelly Blue Book or a Project blue Beam, nor the blue books that you perhaps were issued when you had to do writing tests. True, so this became Project blue Book in three. But they were all pursuing similar things in different ways. Yes, And between ninety and nineteen sixty nine, the Air Force investigated twelve thousand, six hundred and eighteen reported UFO sightings. And in this report that talks about the findings of Project blue Book, grudge and sign and uh nor could you read that of these total sightings, eleven thousand, nine hundred and seventeen were found to have been caused by material objects such as balloons, satellites and aircrafts, immaterial objects such as lightning reflections, and other natural phenomena, astronomical objects such as stars, planets, and the sun and moon, weather conditions, and hoaxes. As indicated, only seven d and one reported sightings remain unexplained. Great job, noll. I would object to the language that I uses, however, because only seven one. That's sort of right, that it's not sort of that there's no reason for me to add on some kind of crappy modifier words to that. That's absolutely attempting to unsuccessfully in my opinion. Uh Bury the lead, Yeah, downplay it like crazy in the official report. So what were their official conclusions? Okay, so they had three official conclusions. One, no UFO reported, investigated and evaluated by the Air Force has ever given any indication of threat to our national security. That's a big word, you know, that word, very important national security. There has been no evidence submitted to or discovered by the Air Force that sightings categorized as unidentified present technological developments or principles beyond the range of present day scientific knowledge. And Three, there has been no evidence indicating that sightings categorized as unidentified are extraterrestrial vehicles. And then in sixty nine they terminated the project, right, Yes, that's correct, And I think I think it was President Carter that wanted to kind of start back up blue Book, not necessarily the project blue Book itself, but he wanted the Air Force to look into unidentified flying objects again, and they turned him down because because well, yes, because he saw one, and I guess he just thought it was a good idea, but the Air Force looked back at these reports and just said, Nah, we're not gonna do that. That's something that we hear often enough every time a president is newly elected, not re elected, but newly elected. Clinton, Right, Clinton was one. I think Bush may have meant one of the bushes and made some statements about it. Probably W. Probably not h W given his past in the CIA. Barack Obama mentioned it. Numerous presidential nominees will say I will look into this and what ever they find out, you know, it's not been published, which goes to the idea of the disclosure project. Let's also talk about since we we talked about the idea of this vast chronological scale, let's explore the um conversations people have about ancient alien visitations, the legends of someone landing from Afar, the tie ins with biblical creatures such as the Nephelum who fell from the sky and taught man agriculture while also sleeping with as many people as they could. Right, Uh, so we're the Nephelum. Rather, let me amend that the Nephelum were the result of those sorts of unions. So you will often hear ladies and gentlemen arguments that these are these stories, these oral histories that were later written down, are evidence of some other life form from beyond the stars, jump starting human evolution or human social evolution. I I I have to admit, I kind of like these stories, at least the idea underlying these stories, because when you if you think about it logically, you kind of get lost and you start doubting that this could ever be true. But when you I like the ideas of time and how large our galaxy is and how long it's been around, and how relatively young the Earth is. I like the idea that perhaps there was some mass, massive, um intelligent, perhaps even technological life that that existed in the universe or even in our galaxy, that somehow seated our planet. And I really like the I think that's kind of what the story is in Ridley Scott's latest Aliens franchise film. Yeah, that actually came to mind that a lot of this stuff just about, like you know, the engineers in that film seem to be sort of like the next stage of our evolution. So, yeah, this is this is a good topic because I was I was planning to bring this up as well. The theory of pan spermium as a horrible name, but it is probably one of the biggest potential discoveries that we can make, along with tracing the origin or figuring out the providence of the Wow signal, which you know, of course, is the one of the most anomalous signals received from space. We have done an episode touching on that. You can check it out where we're talking about alien contact, the idea of microbial alien life coming to Earth. The idea of this pan spermia theory is in many ways of the plausible ancient alien idea, and it seems um what do I say plausible, I mean comparatively plausible. It seems that this could be in the cards if there were an extraterrestrial higher order being that came to Earth and sometime in the ancient past. Uh. I believe that most civilizations or researchers would want everyone to know about it. If, however, they came during a modern time, somehow, I believe that there would be an air of secrecy just given them. Given the fact that we live in a globally connected world in which many state actors and corporations are in constant dirty competition, but in in this alien ancient alien theory, it would be that perhaps they visited before humanity had evolved into a conscious mind, to a hunter gatherer situation, because then the idea would have been that instead of being capable of learning on their own, early Homo sapiens had somebody appear out of the sky and plant and teach them how to plant things. Uh. The clearly you know a long time less news. Uh. You know that I have personally quarreled with this because I think there's a lot of institutionalized racism in ancient alien theories. I'll spare everyone in the conversation I bring up when this stuff happens, just to say, you know, if you hear someone tell you that there's no way ancient Egyptian civilization could have made the Pyramids, don't just believe them. Look into the vast amount of research people have done about recreating them. So at this point, I don't know where else do you want to go with us. I would just say that if you're you've probably already seen everything that you could ever see about ancient alien theory through the History Channel or H two, or basically by turning on your television and being near those channels. Um, you'll you've probably learned everything about the NASCAR lines. We've covered that before. We don't. I don't think we need to go back over it. We've covered the via manas, the flying machines, and ancient Indian ethics. I'd like to look into those and more depth at some point. I think it's fast and you know, warrants its own its own podcast, because listeners, if you're familiar with this, this is the idea that, uh, in ancient Indian civilizations there were flying machines that were invented, and that there was actually something very close to an ancient nuclear war. So we can check that one out for sure. I don't know, but see also that doesn't necessarily mean that aliens did it. Ancient civilization did it, and we're just catting the cycle of building nuclear weapons and then destroying civilization, and then building nuclear weapons and then destroying civilization. The argument of great filters that civil that alien civilizations tend to self destruct before they ever get to the point where they could communicate with other people seems pretty likely. Well, that's all I've got. Certainly, something we see, you know, repeating itself, even in the short relatively short history of our own planet. You know, great civilizations kind of crumbling and then being replaced. Oh and that's a that's a scary thing to how how how foolish would it sound to an outside civilization to land right after some devastating war and to say, well, these, this group of animals was, this group of biological life forms was close to getting into interstellar travel. But because their tribes didn't get along, they killed everybody. They didn't have like a fight club thing with like two leaders, do get it out. No, they said, everybody dies. And the fish are like us too, And they're like, yes, because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time, cosmically speaking to right. And and when we when, when we think about this, how how strange this could be? It also brings up a very specific thing that just reminded me of No. I. If you think about the rise and fall of empires, many historians have tried to trace this, to find a pattern to the cycle, right a frequency, and and if you look at the empire that is currently the United States, it's anomalous right now. And while you know, we as people don't haven't there's no one who's been alive as long as the U S has that we know of. Uh So, it seems like it's stable and it seems like it's solid, but it's early days yet that's just because inside of it. And how long will it continue? Will it be or will it be around when when we see some sort of alien civilization, when humanity or humanities successors strike out to the stars. Let us know what you think, folks. Let us know if you think there have been instances of alien contact. Let us know if you think we'll ever find it. Let us know if you think space is a place for biological entities like us, or if we are just here just sort of be the midwives for a new form of life. You can find us some face speaking Twitter where conspiracy stuff there, and you can check out every audio podcast that Noel, Matt and I have ever done, and there are quite a few now at our website. Stuff they don't want you to know dot com. And if you don't want to do any of that, but you still want to talk to us, because why not? What a check? You can send us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy and how stuff works. Dot