Stuff They Don't Want You To KnowSpies in the Sky: More Strange, Secret Satellites
Whil space may look pretty empty to the unaided eye, make no mistake: Earth's orbit is filled with fascinating -- sometimes creepy -- things. Join Ben, Matt and Noel as they explore the rise of spy satellites, the danger of nukes in space, and much more.
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeartRadio.
Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Nolan.
They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer Paul, Mission control decand most importantly, you are here. That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Bit of background, folks, fellow conspiracy realists. We are recording live ish in our office today on a beautifully British Friday morning. Yeah.
Man, we're in the studio. This thing has underlighting.
What Yeah, the weather outside matches the town of Ben's computer, which is space gray, which is also appropriate for today's episode.
Wait, darn all of our computers right. Mine is not officially space gray.
Space gray is a colorway patented by Apple. I think matthew space gray Apple. All the new ones School silver, those are space gray.
Okay, so the new ones are like Ford Model T's any color you want, as long as it's black. Basically, I think there were there were three others. There was like a rose one.
It looks almost like bone.
It does look a bit like apple. They're all great to me.
Oh, I went to an apple store the other day that it looks like you're walking into a hospital.
It's just very clinical. There's something about it that's a little sterile, because stuff keeps breaking when I'm on the road. I've been in apple stores in other countries and I get I say, it's uniformly the same exactly. That's how they like it. Yeah, and we're talking today about looking at things closely. It's very easy to take things for normal and kind of sort of put blinders on, right, that's just part of being a human. But when is the last last time you really gazed up at the night sky? Last night a couple a week about a week ago.
I just remember walking home it was nighttime, looking up in my neck of the woods and seeing constellations and being kind of impressed by my you know, relative close proximity to a giant city, how well I could see said constellations. Yeah, Daddy lives a little bit more out in the in the mood country of the docks.
Yeah.
I looked up, took my dogs outside, and there she was, the big dipper like right, Like I guess where the trees are. I looked up in the clearing of the trees and the big dipper filled out the entirety of that thing, and my brain just said, this is nice, beautiful.
I've got. I've got a rooftop situation now where I'm currently living. And as as a thrifty, brave, clean reverend type dude, I love having a bootleg planetarium at home. So instead of going out and spending money pretty often now I will just go up to this place and hang out. And like most people in the world, folks, we live in or on the edge of a huge conurbation, a lot of urban density. And I love the point you're making about lights, because a conturbation is just as our fancy way to say, you live around a lot of light pollution, a lot of noise pollution. So even when we look up and try very hard to see what's going on, it can be difficult to see all the strange things in orbit. And make no mistake, there is a lot up there, especially close to Earth.
Here are the facts spy satellites. Guys, you know them, you love them. They keep you up at night. There's been songs written about them. At the very least satellites. Who've got the Dave Matthews band, We've got the Counting Crows album.
Was it? What's it called?
Something the satellites?
What are they doing to the chasing satellite?
Chasing them there, discovering uh binking, touching them?
We're getting closed, gosh, harassing the satellite. That's not cool. I didn't say it was cool. I said that might be what they named it. It's called old uh oh, gosh. I just have to know because there's August and everything after. That's right, that's a memorable title.
It is welcome back to this is important where we only talk about the absolutely most important, vital recovering recovery.
I said, discovering. Okay, we had to put that to bed, Matt. We can't just let that.
Is that a Corona reference?
Well, it could be, we'd have to ask Adam Duritz. But the the it's true that spy satellites are a real thing, and they're kind of a conundrum right in the world, a conspiracy because they're definitely real. They do amazing sci fi level stuff, but they're also definitely not as secret as their creators would hope. Because as we've discussed in the past. You can't hide the fact that they're being launched. You usually can't. There's one case we'll talk about that's very interesting. You can't make these things invisible. Amateur skywatchers with just prosumer telescopes will be able to spot objects in the sky. And they're huge communities online that just track these things. Because there are so many in the sky right now, it might surprise people. I don't know. It's on the edge of where we could say this is a recent phenomenon or it's a surprisingly old phenomenon because it dates back to like the nineteen fifties. It's when the US first started saying, hey, let's elevate our spy game. Yeah, literally elevate. I'm doing atmosphere jokes. Well, also, spy games are a thing, right, is that a film? Yes?
I think something like that. But it does make sense because it goes back to rockets, right, It goes back to Operation paper Clip, It goes back to being able to actually keep something stable in a well often did you synchronous orbit right, which is like twenty two thousand miles above planet Earth?
A little?
I think it's twenty twenty three hundred something like that.
Stable in terms of connection to Earth, or just in terms of it in a stable or orbit like it won't decay as quickly. I think even more importantly that you can predict where.
It will be at any time exactly, which means you can communicate with it, which brings along communication, satellites, all the things that we take for granted these days in our monern technology. It's because we can talk to something in the sky.
And if you don't care, if you're like I'm a surface dweller, why does a satellite matter to me. I'm not a billionaire guy interested in space. I don't work at NASA or the NRORO. It matters because these satellites make the actual world as you know it possible. If these things are gone, if they're all damaged in some sort of disastrous scenario, it's back to the dark ages very very quickly.
Can we just talk about, like every other technology, satellites are a thing because of war or potential war for military right?
Yes? Absolutely?
And was is it true the first ones were recon like the first satellites ever up there?
Yet the very first satellite is sputn it well, of course, right, And that was we can do this. That was successful because it got there, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's it didn't stay there long. Yeah. The first satellites that we would consider like in a stable orbit were reconnaissance things, and they started because the US panicked Sputnik launched like okay, in nineteen fifty five. The US Air Force said, we got to make satellites. They're going to be reconnaissance satellites because we have to figure out what's going on with any potential enemy. And they didn't name this potential enemy, but it was nineteen fifty five. Yeah, exactly.
So my question is what does a reconnaissance satellite in nineteen fifty five do?
Exactly?
Well, well, that's that's the thing, right, look at your enemy's positioning. Because you're so high up, you can actually see their territory from a god's eye angle, I guess. And now you can actually see if there's a factory, what's coming out of that factory. If your enemy isn't like concealing its.
Literal satellite photography in nineteen fifty five, it's they get there, that's the idea, because they didn't have, you know, the technology to electronically send good visuals.
So in after spot Nick launches in October nineteen fifty seven, the US absolute panics, and they panic for good reason. They take this project that have been kind of cooking on the back burner, called the Corona Program, and they put all the gas of Uncle Sam's military mite behind it. The first satellites were called Keyhole series, and they were amazing at the time. But if you're if you're into satellites today, you look back at them, they're mids dude. They use physical film cameras and they had no way to get the film back to Earth right, so they had to air drop it and be like, I hope this shows up not in Russian territory.
And not burnt up because there was a flaw in the capsule or the pictures didn't turn out.
We also hope the pictures are good. Ye have develop them literally right, right, Like the many of us in the crowd are old enough to remember that sort of waiting game you had to play right where you had a camera, a role of film or maybe even disposable cameras, and you would take pictures and hope it looked good. You would drop it off at your I guess the old school ones the photo Matt or your local drug store, and then you know, you would just spend a few days saying, I hope it looked as good as they felt.
Yeah, the viewfinder hopefully didn't lie.
The viewfinder hopefully didn't lie. And that's the game Corona was playing too. Still, the idea was always this is better than nothing. That's been the impetus of all spy satellites. Today, you might be surprised to find that spy satellites are totally legal. There's the un is, like we can't stop it, like the un is, like the cool parents who let the high schooler kids drink booze at home.
Yeah, as long as you do it under our watch, under our room, as long as I'm in you know, space.
I'm just trying to I'm trying to understand how you could release something like that, right, I mean, if some if you're going to allow a country to launch a satellite, right, you would have to inspect each satellite that happen. Are there optics on this thing?
You know?
We talked about that recently in terms of nuclear proliferation, for example, like the logistics of you know, how difficult it is to police that stuff and to do these inspections. Now people can hide and obfuscate those kinds of inspections.
What was it in relation to we did? It was sort of an allergy.
It was a recent episode came about Manors nuclear it was about it was about Antarctica. It was about doing like research stations for military purposes in Antarctica, and how there's no governing body that could reasonably logistically, you know, pull that off.
I think this is a similar situation, but.
I guess because the playing field is equal, because there's it's space.
If you can get there, go with God. Literally, that's kind of the best security measure against shenanigans in space. The barrier to enter space is literally so high.
I'm going to keep doing the twenty two thousand miles.
Yeah. Change, Okay, So wait, you're saying, is outer space just some wild West sci fi mad back situation? Kind of not really. Since nineteen sixty seven, all of the major space powers have agreed at least lip service to something called the Outer Space Treaty. Its technical name is the Treaty Principles governing the activities of States and the exploration and use of outer space comma, including the Moon and other celestial bodies. Is there a sexy acronym for that, or no outer space treaty right right garment pussy or whatever. But this whole agreement is a direct result of the fear the world felt of the US and USSR arms race. Nations of Earth were rightly worried that they didn't get in front of this space would become the new battle ground for all sorts of nasty things. That it happened because the reason people got scared enough to put aside their differences and sign up is because of intercontinental ballistic missiles which could just smack you from the other side of the world, leveraging outer space. And at the time these things were invented, no one could stop them.
Yeah, and they do go into space.
They do.
That is like the important thing. When you launch one of those, it goes away up, travels real quick, and then gets down to its intended target if you know the targeting system works. Because as we talked about recently in our Strange News episode, sometimes that doesn't work and it goes way on target.
The best way to stop at ICBM is to stop it from launching in the first place. Hell or high water, which gets really I'll say spoopy really quickly.
Well, yeah, and when there's also a fear in this time, in the nineteen fifties and sixties, that you could have a nuclear weapon up in space somewhere and your enemies wouldn't know about it, and then you could launch it at any time, and everybody is thinking that that's a possibility, which is really creepy because it feels like everybody might be trying to develop it before their opponents do.
Yeah, like Khrushchev wakes up on the wrong side of the bed one day and says, you know what, I think, California sucks, and then there's no way to stop it.
Well, yeah, but even I think just that mindset of it's better to have it in place than not have it in place, just in case we need it.
And California doesn't suck. We're big fans. I think we're safe to see. We're big fans in most states right in general?
Yeah, I think so, Yeah, I think so.
All right, there was a pause.
I was thinking about a couple of places. Okay, I'm not going to say.
All right, all right, we'll be diplomatic, and speaking of diplomacy, maybe we talk just real briefly about what this treaty in nineteen sixty three, what it actually did, why it matters today because there are a couple of important things it bans explicitly, but then there are a couple of loopholes. Correct.
These key provisions include limiting the use of the moon and all other celestial bodies to peaceful purposes. Sure that tracks the moon seems like a peaceful place. The word celestial, it invokes feelings of serenity and peace. I would say, surely we can stick to this, guys. We can all agree to keep things, you know, copastic in space right suit of happiness.
But in the pursuit of peace, we may need a security force to you know, make sure the police.
Trust but verify security or peace through security whatever it was they say in v for Vendetta.
Yeah, guys, after all, aren't all war is just a means to peace?
I mean, the end of the day, I think it's still pretty screwy that we call things the Department of defense, you know what I mean, Like, how aggressive is defense? Before you're over the line of what that word described, we.
Got to call it the Department of smash. We've also got the idea establishing space as a freely explored and usable space.
By all nations. Yes, so long as they can afford it.
Well, it get to your point earlier, Ben, the barrier to entry in and of itself is its own safeguard against well, not necessarily bad actors, but at least against actors that we are not aware of, because if you're not in the game, chances are you don't have the toys that it's going to take to get there.
It is a shared domain, right sure, because and it reminds me of the way I guess the Earth's governing bodies have decided to look at international waters, right, and oceans kind of that same deal, Like, if it's not in your official territory, then it's everybody's. But it doesn't make sense to me because you control humans control airspace like very closely, right, they also control territories of water, you know, certain distance outside of their official land territory. It does feel like you would go all the way up. Basically at some point they're like, oh, that is this is Canadian space. Don't come in here unless we allow you to.
And then that becomes tricky because you can think of like if you think of orbits as a series of concentric spheres. They're not always geosynchronous. Yeah, so the air, the space space over Canada one at one point may not be the same space the next point.
Can we can we we've done this before in another episode. I think we talked about this episode geosynchronous right those words.
Yes, I would love a little clarification.
Well, it's it's synchronized with with Earth the rotor right when we're rotating. So when you put one of those up there, it's in the same place relative to the ground.
It's got to fix latitude but not no, it's got to fixed longitude. But yes, fixed latitude.
That's it.
That's it. So yeah, this is and there's an art to making that. Also, the Outer Space Treaty says and just in case anybody gets squirrely, you can't land on stuff in space and say it belongs to you. Yeah, so you can't like, okay, everybody have your little race to the moon, but it's not yours just because you had a flag. We know they knew about terran Olious, I'm gonna say, but.
Then again, you know, with all the conversations who had about Aran Aulius and all of the you know, the domineering behaviors of invading forces over time. It really all comes down to your ability to defend your decision, you know, militarily speaking, Like, if it gets to a point where someone decides they're gonna claim something in space and they have the guns or the space weapons to you know, put their money where their mouth is, who's to stop them?
And that's where we get to the loopholes of the treaty, which are mission critical for our exploration. The treaty does not ban several things. It does not ban spy or reconnaissance. First, how would they to the earlier point? And secondly, everybody kind of low key agreed that they were going to sneak that stuff up there anyway. It doesn't ban anything that vaguely qualifies as research, and research is a huge umbrella of a term. Also, surprisingly does not ban all military activities. You can still make a space force several countries have. You can still put what they call conventional weapons in space.
So just no new space.
Can you know, like a nice like a glave, Yeah, like a morning Star star a battle axe, yeah yeah, if you need it, if you needed your battle acts and juggle.
If the rules were Hey, violence in space is fine, but we can only.
Use hand to hand weapons. Yeah, and it's it's paradoxical though, that things that are so easily visible in the sky are the subject of such conspiracy and secrecy. Still, well before the recent news about Russia broke, it was obvious to everyone there's a new space race afoot. As of twenty twenty, which is now four years ago, one fifth of all the satellites up there belong to our military satellites and they are used for spy. So imagine satellites as the population of a country and one fifth of the people living there work for a spy agency. Dude, that's a good way to think about. Like, well, I don't know if I like that, but I like the analogy.
Well, like three fifths of them are starlink satellites. Like, seriously, they've watched so many in the what past decade or less?
Yeah, pretty recently, and we're going to see that this trend continues. Satellites proliferate because there's economy of scale, there's greater interest on the part of frankly billionaires, but then also state powers, and they're able to make smaller satellites that are much less expensive. So as a result, there are more satellites and there are more stories of strange satellites than ever before. I want to take a break for a word from our responsor while this shoots across space. Louis.
Oh, guys, the AT and T network is out again.
Ah, crap, all it a second, there it is, okay, just just hit it a couple of times. All right. Break. Here's where it gets crazy, all right. So for your average like war mongering nation not naming names. Things get tricky when you get weapons in space, because we said the Space Treaty bands militarization. But there's this massive gray area of definition between what's considered reconnaissance, like I'm just looking or research and just trying something versus weaponization. I'm looking at ways to kill you or I'm trying to see if there are new ways to kill you. Don't look up here, you keep your eyes on the ground. Amateur skywalkers or skywatchers will keep skywalkers. So what we can say is that the majority of spy satellites, though they're shrouded in operational secrecy and it can be tough to know specifically what they're doing, we do know their genres. They're usually they're like five general categories of spy satellite, so we know about.
Yeah, and they're usually checking out, uh, they're looking for signals right of what could be happening on the ground, and or checking out what those signals might mean, right. Yeah, And they work together often, so it's not like one of these going to describe as just working independently. There's usually a system of satellite that goes, Okay, we can give you this info from this one. We can give you this data from the other one, and with this one we can see.
It as long as we our agencies currently agree because the time. Yeah, and the Navy's likenh that's our thing though. But also it's like dungeons and dragons multi classing. One single satellite can have multiple capabilities, especially the newer ones.
Are there shared satellites, yes, like like like that are space space stations and things like that.
Yeah, there are satellites that are launched as a cooperative measure between a couple of different countries, especially given how expensive they are. And then there are ones where one country might flit more of the budget, one country might have a specialized component, or they might operate it jointly.
Yeah, And last thing, I know we hear sometimes about decommissioned satellites just kind of floating around in space forever and adding to the debris belt there. And what is the typical life of a satellite? Is it more about the tech or its inability to be updated or upgraded?
Yeah, it's a lot of It's about a lot of It's about the tech, the design of the of the thing, and sometimes the flaws in construction.
Often is amount of fuel on board to be able to boost every so often at an interval to maintain that.
Or and is it a dummy satellite or can it reposition itself?
And as we talked about in Strange News recently, once a satellite has lost all its fuel or its ability to boost again, it kind of slowly starts to enter atmosphere, which could take years.
That's right. Yeah, it's like do you want and people bake this in like do you want your satellite to last ten to fifteen years? Sometimes you might say I don't want it to last that long because I predict that the technology will improve such that this will no longer be relative.
That's exactly planned obsolescence, But it's planning for it gets close.
Yeah, and that's a good distinction.
So what we're talking about just that EARS one satellite. Yeah, it's going to take one hundred years for it to enter Earth's atmosphere, and it's dead and nobody can communicate with it. It's not doing anything.
We can see what.
It's doing, though, we can track it over that hundred years to make sure that it's not going to go boom.
Yeah, it's a it's a it's a rusting dead car in the front yard of Earth.
Yes, you could do nothing to it, so if there is debris or anything that impacts it, there's no to prevent that kind of thing.
And it's it doesn't work. It's basically this, this pontiac is on cinderblocks.
Yeah, and we also know that space is just absolutely lousy with garbage, right, and they're much like I guess, there's no singular agency to police what people do with space. Likewise, there isn't one to keep us from ruining space.
There are institutions that have been waving the flag for years and they're trying to talk sense into people, but humans listening to scientists not the best track record, to be honest. I mean, they do I think the world powers, though, do recognize the efficacy of these things. Like going back to those types of spy satellites. You've got things that will just watch for missiles, that's the old school stuff. And then you've got stuff that will just take pictures, literal pictures of Earth from the top of the sky survey level. And then the very scary close look telephotos stuff where you think, oh wow, can they really see as dilated people said, the face of a dime from a satellite. That technology is the fighting And yeah, well it's been here.
For longer than we would ever imagine or publicly admit, because I was going.
To ask too.
I mean, you know, like many things, this stuff, this text starts in the military sector and then trickles its way down to the public or whatever. So we obviously have entertainment companies that have satellites out in space as well, but that's piggybacked on the discoveries and innovations of the military.
Yes, yeah, and when we say also not just the entertainment companies, but telecoms, right, that's what I meant. Definitely broadcasting. And then of course nuclear explosion detectors. Their entire job is to clock stuff like the Vela incident, and they're pretty good with it.
And that is that is signals intelligence, right, That's more like you detect the wave basically of energy that occurs when it nuclear explosion happens, and the people who created the satellite and the systems understand exactly what that looks like when you get a pulse.
Yeah. And then that's also related right to the radar imaging which the Russians pioneered, Yes, which is seeing through cloud cover seen at night, Sigand though to be honest to your point, Matt, Siggin's the big one sneaking through and maybe not interrupting, but eaves dropping on radio waves and other forms of communication. The problem is that the ability to eavesdrop gets you really closely to the ability to intercept, impersonate, to interrupt, and are those are the things that keep people up at night. I mean, there's so much hidden history here. We shouted this out. Oh, I forgot to write that email back, but someone was talking with us about this, and we get letters about nukes and space pretty often, especially now. A lot of us aren't aware of something called starfish Prime, which is such a cool nickname.
It also sounds like a really fancy Starfish steak there we go, yeah, or the name of the name of a new Guardians of the Galaxy character or Transformer, perhaps star.
Wards, Starfish Prime, Yeah, yeah, Transformer. So right before the Outer Space treaty happens, all the big powers know it's on the way, and this is a true story. Somewhere in the Doctor Strange Strange Love Halls of Power in the US, someone was like, well, guys, if we want to blow up some nukes in space, we gotta hop to it now while it's still okay.
Yeah, And a nuke in space feels like kind of a weird idea.
It feels so American, though, well, because.
You're okay, correct me. I don't understand the science fully. But if you launch a nuclear missile well above Earth's orbit that you're outside of the atmosphere completely.
Would you like be an implosion or something? How would it? I don't. It feels like that kind of low gravity, you.
Don't have molecules that are existing inside to do anything. But if you do a high altitude explosion like this, then you can see, well, what actually happens on the surface of the planet above or below that explosion.
Could it have effects on things like like we could it create a black hole or something?
I mean, I'm sorry, I mean no, you're right. And they didn't know they were in an FAFO situation as we call it. Like they they did not anticipate so much stuff. The Aurora borealities that came out as a result the massive emp like this was this was a weapon and it blacked out radio communication. It wasn't a purposeful weapon, though they wanted to see what happened. And I know it sounds like something from Mister Show's sketch, like the one where they decided to blow up the moon. Why not? Why it's the right look at exactly. I think it's so big, Yeah, because it's the first satellite whatever it did, this Starfish thing an Operation fishbul which was a part They did provide a lot of data that would become of increasing importance as space exploration became more and more of a reality. But it was just like Oppenheimer, Oppenheimer's team, I should say, detonating the first Bob. People didn't know, you know, what was going to happen, but it did teach people what to look for if nukes debtonate up there in the future, so I don't know.
That's like so, so there are questions around what the physical conditions of space would do to the behavior of a nuke, Yes, and.
They were answered. The best answer right now in the real world was starfish prime. There are a lot of extensive like simulations and models that are probably leaving pretty closely to the truth. But that crazy thing classic us. That crazy thing actually informs some of the better decisions that are being made today. But the problem is everybody wants to spy a satellite. Now it's hotter than POGs in the nineties or beanie babies. But everybody knows when you launch one. The streets are watching, and they're watching more and more closely with every satellite that launches. So you can obscure the abilities of your satellite, you can classify the specifics of its mission, but everybody's going to know when a launch occurs. And that's where we get to maybe some weird examples of satellite conspiracies. What do you say, should we start like plausible and then go go to the further end of the spectrum? Sure? All right, cool name, honorary, coolest name I think up there with Starfish Prime, Palladium at Night.
What do you think Palladium gets into.
Well, it depends on who you ask. Uh. Palladium at Night launches in September two thousand and nine. We're not sure what it gets up to because out of all this different spy satellites, you know, the US will usually confirm which agency is in charge of it. Is it the NRO like most of them in SAA et cetera, the Navy or Space Force. To this day, the US has never said who runs Palladium at Night. If you want to learn more about it and call, it's called USA two O seven after Dark.
Yeah, this is from like two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine. Yeah, okay, that's a little while back from now, but that's still well advanced into the satellite programs that existed in the technology it does. What do we already talk about how the NRO, the National Recronaissance Office runs a lot of the satellites off air.
I think I can't infermde it in but yeah, National Accrownistance Office.
So it does feel like that that group, that organization that was only declassified, by the way, was it is in the nineties when the NRO was officially recognized or they said, yeah, we're this is a thing.
They were like the US government version of a cryptid.
Yes, exactly, a very secretive organization that only a few people had a need to know basis about even its very existence. But they're the group that generally controls and when we say that again, controls the satellites that are in orbit that have a spy functionality or a let's say, a close watch functionality. It seems like Palladium at Night would be controlled by this group. But are there other potential.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We got to look up Edward Snowden.
Remember him, sounds familiar.
He's Russia's Golden Boy. I'm getding. That's unfair. He had to take refuge in Russia because the US was out for him after after you release this massive treasure trove of classified info. His leaks heavily imply that Lady at Night also sometimes called pick a name, is run by the NSSA, and we don't know exactly what it's doing. Whomever does run it again, never officially confirmed, but during the first five years of its launch, from two thousand and nine twenty fourteen, we're talking about repositioning. It moved around in different types of orbits at least nine different times, which is a lot, and each time it moved to get closer to a commercial communications satellite, so closer to your ateend, closer to yeah, just to sneak in.
So dude, Yeah, that's totally an essay that I mean, that's what we learned about. NSA was doing it like the long lines buildings in these other places where they're tapping directly into the phone lines and the internet wires and tubes, but they're literally doubling everything that's going through and making a copy of it so they've got their own stream. They're doing it with the satellites.
They could be I mean, it could be monitoring for terrorist activity. That that probably is true. But that's also a convenient thing to say, right, just like.
You're gonna say, is so creepy to me? Y'all, y'all are creeps? You hear me? You're over there, just like I have to see, oh my god, what they're doing.
Oh my god. Their street name was no such agency. A bunch of pervy boys.
I'm so gross, y'all.
Get a dog, right, get a get a hobby. You know play boulders Gate three. Uh, it's awesome and it's also weirdly horny if that's what you're interested in. People still, as a result, aren't one hundred percent agreed on what pan or Pollating mint Night is doing up there, But they're guessing it's a dedicated calm satellite for intelligence operations and enemy territory. It could be a relay station, a relay center for drone operations, or it could be that's what my money's on. It could be a craft designed to spy not really out of Earth but on other satellites, including friendlies.
I would I would say, you're on the money there, and I think this was like second or third generation of that of that kind of mission up there.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, And then that would necessarily mean that because satellite launches have increased, there's a newer model out there.
Oh there is. Should we should we talk about that right now? Because I think that's yeah. I think that's good. I think it's directly related. Okay, Uh, look up something. If you're around and you have access to the internet, look up something called Silent Barker or NROL DASH one O seven. This is at least according to the NRO itself and the Space Force, which is again a real thing and it.
Really is not an anime yet. Uh.
This is a series of watchdog satellites, that's how they describe them, that monitor potential adversaries, not on the ground, not in the sky, in the atmosphere, not in the oceans. They monitor exactly what's going on in geosynchronous orbit. And these these are a series of satellites that have been launched there someone were launched in September of twenty twenty three, and the government is a little open about it.
Yeah there because they're sending messages. There's a sciof aspect to it.
I think that's exactly what is. And actually, who's this Guy's the NRO director Chris Scalise, I think is how you'd say his name. I'm gonna I'm gonna read this quote quote. The idea of the mission is to put a satellite in geosynchronous orbit and then to be looking at that orbital regime, so all of it, and get a sense of what's happening day to day. We also want to know if there's something going on that is unexpected or should be going on. They could potentially represent a threat to a high value asset, either hours or one of our allies and guys. It's just we're gonna get to it at the end of this. But I think that is directly related to what happened very recently in twenty twenty four.
It's all related. I would say, it's all very much related. And also there's a I love you bringing that quote because I always have to chuckle when I hear the description like protecting high value assets. Yeah, because that means and I'm not joking, this is how this sort of stuff works. That means there has been someone who asked for help and was told they were not a high enough value asset and they got burned.
I'm sure there's a more diplomatic way that they deliver the news to these individuals that's not to hurt.
Thank you for your service, okay, or something. Here's a gold watch, right, or here's a here's here's a special compartment in your tooth. Indeed, I'm getting those days are bite down. Yeah, but so yeah, silent Barker, they are being more public about it. And because also there's sort of a the buttoned up secrecy of old is not necessarily as useful as it was, because now the capabilities to suss out what's happening render that kind of skull and bone stuff increasingly irrelevant.
Yeah, but I think just the fact that this was launched in September of last year, Yes, so like pretty recently, and its mission is to check out what's going on up there. And then we have our recent news about weird stuff going on in the in space. Again, we're just kind of teasing that right now because we're going to really get into that in a moment. But it freaks me out, especially when I think about our discussions of X thirty seven, B through Z and whatever else is going on up there with those types of craft and talking about those high value assets, and then the capabilities. I do think you could probably connect dots to all of those systems to basically, I think the United States is developing a sort of the space force they're talking about.
It's a net exactly, It's a web. Yeah, there's also like car chase scenes, I don't think in what respect. You know, like starlink creates a web to allow Internet access, So this is a web of surveillance. It's the first step towards that. I guess yeah, yeah, it's very good steps too. But the car chase thing is okay, these uh, the US militaries dispatched this was this happened pretty recently too. The US military dispatch satellites to track these two Chinese spacecraft that launched. Yes, and just like in a car chase situation, the uh, the Chinese operators knew what was going on, so they went opposite directions, right, So like that's how like that's how you would do a good heist, right. So there, And I'm not saying they're doing anything bad. I'm saying that people are sensitive. Everybody's starting to build their own web.
I swear some of that world, Ben is so much like winking at your opponent and going, I see that, you see me?
Now watch this exactly like we're talking about with the conversations with Uncle Gee and Joe Biden. When you're in a conversation where both people know that they're lying about something, and they both know that the other person is lying, then what they talk about actually ends up being very close to the truth.
Interesting, it's weird.
I think it's somewhat unnecessary, But there are all kinds of reasons we don't run world governments.
I don't know that I've ever experienced that.
Do you guys?
Have you been in that situation where you're like having a conversation like that that's clandestine?
I guess not to that degree certainly. I mean, I don't know what. Maybe Ben's more likely to have moved in some of these circles.
But you're talking about like sort of saying the loud part quiet, like just like a failed.
In kind of jargony kind of. Yeah, think of like, uh, think of like all the you see it all the time in fiction, right, Like one one thing that epitomizes a great crime thriller is when you have that dramatic irony of like, oh you know what a great example the Nero own paccino and heat. That's wonderful conversation. They're a little bit honest about it at that.
I guess maybe one version of it too that I'm thinking is sort of like mafia phone calls when they know they're being tapped.
Yes, that stuff like that's a perfect example. Yeah, Middle Kingdom court intrigues in ancient China. I got you.
That makes more sense I because I'm thinking about like speaking in code and those kinds of things. I'm trying to imagine that thing where people are being having that very serious conversation, like in a diplomatic moment when they're discussing those two satellites that you describe going off in two different ways, and the use some US official It was just across the table, like, hmm, I saw, I noticed your satellites had an interesting trajectory.
We're grateful for our countries continued cooperation and partnership in space would be And it's kind of like, you know, our hearts always go out to the poor scientists doing the actual science, who are usually friends because they're the only people they know who are so into their very niche rarefied activities and they have to hope their parents let them play together, which is a weird way to put it. Yeah, and with this strange Joseph Heller Catch twenty two esque kind of situation in space and on the surface, we're gonna pause for a word from our sponsors. We'll be right back with a possible conspiracy within a conspiracy back the zooma latch not zoomba. I forgot what zooma is.
Also not zoom remember remember.
Yes or zoom that short lived video conference.
I'm just or that excellent uh, that excellent ad jingle was a Volkswagon zoom zoom zoomzoo Wow. The creepy child was bring zooms. Do you remember that we're talking instead about zooma zooma, not Zoombay exactly Sorry, And that was the same kid from Taste rip Oh boy was ever? I see that people that could make me so uncomfortable.
Let's talk about this is the most intriguing accident then I have seen in a long time.
Mm hmm yeah, and we all drive on to eighty five. Gragularly. Uh, we were saying we see a lot of accidents, but not many compared to Zuma. So Zooma is the street name for the USA to A. It was launched by SpaceX on January eighth, twenty eighteen, or SpaceX launched something on that day. Here's the conspiracy, the most interesting conspiracy surrounding the Zuma launch. So our big problem if we are space spies is that everyone will know when we launch something. No matter what we do, everybody will see it because we can't make it invisible.
But they'll just know we launch something.
They'll just know we launch something, so we can we can try to bury it under paperwork and stuff.
Well, you know, when we launch like a new spacecraft or like a SpaceX thing, it's a big televiszoo event.
Not so with spy satellites, right.
Sometimes it still is because the payload.
Is that's what they can classify. That's what they can hide. They can't hide the rocket, but they can hide the They can hide stuff in the trunk is the best way to put it. And that's what X thirty seven B literally does. So here's the conspiracy. What if instead of what if instead of just trying to hide stuff in the trunk and knowing that people will know when we launch something, what if we fake a failed launch? What if we fake the death of a satellite?
So it's like a interesting wow, So you get something up there, you put out that to every all of your enemies anallies. I like that you've failed. So you've got a secret, an actual secret spy satellite.
And perhaps small enough to be confused with debris.
Whoa or you could you could hide it aboard one of those larger profile experimental launches parasite satellite.
Yeah exactly, yeah all the time. Oh why not just call it a para satellite by the way, Oh, if we're coining new terms here.
Yeah, wait, is that you think that's a real thing.
I think it is a real thing. Yes, it would be in their best interests. Yeah, yes, of course, because what you can have is you can have like a component inside a larger satellite that has the capability to deploy that thing later.
Yeah, dude, maybe that's what the NSA thing was doing that we were just talking about, going around planting little parasites on the satellite.
And maybe this is a silly question, but how how physically large are we talking here? Compared to say a space shuttle or a space station, they're quite small.
They have a lot of variants in size, more like a drone nowadays, they're going to be smaller nowadays.
It going to be the best example I can give you from the one that the one we just talked about that fell to the Earth. That one was I would estimate the rs the eras two. I would estimate that that was the size of Gosh, imagine a like a sixteen wheeler with these big trucks, right, Imagine you cut that thing in half and then put those two halves next to each other, so they're in line, does that make sense? So the width of those two trucks and in the length of half of those two trucks, that's roughly the size.
Of and and that's pretty big.
That is quite Augekay.
Yeah. When I say a drone too.
By the way, I'm not talking about like a personal, commercially available drone. I mean like those big military right, but those are still smaller than two giant Yeah. But okay, this is very helpful for some.
Well, also there's there's tremendous economic economic design pressure to make them as small as possible.
Yes, and that that one I just described, the size is significantly older, which means, as you said, Ben, as we're getting further and further advanced, they're getting smaller.
So okay, so here's what happens. The official story. We know the n ro is in charge of Zuma and the satellite and the ZOOMA launch, but we don't know what it was doing. However, if you're playing along at home, let's just diplomatically point out the name of the n ro O is the National Reconnaissance Office. So you can make some guesses. You make a couple of guesses you know what I mean. They're not there to steal cable or watch in HK for free, dude.
No, but although I would love.
That because that would be a terrible plan. Yeah.
Okay, so the official story should we do we talk about that?
Yet?
What what officially happened according to the sources?
Okay, so it launches, but then the the satellite deployment fails, right.
Yeah, and at least initially it was stated that the satellite just fell back to Earth, right, but then the story started changing from all the different outfits that were in charge of the launch itself and who created the assets? Is this the one that Northrop Grumming? So like Northrop's given a different story the uh, the NRO is just like it didn't work, and then somebody else was given another story.
And there were a lot of unnamed official sources in the mix, which should always be red flag, right because that means that they got greenlit to say something, and they don't want anybody to be accountable for what was being said because it's probably information or it's yeah, I don't know, it could be a couple of things, but none of them are very upfront or transparent. And also it's interesting because they were like three main players. So there's SpaceX North of Grumman and the n RO n ROW famously not a talkative group. They're somewhat taciturn.
And this is right before Space Force.
Right before Space Force.
SpaceX famously loudmouthed SpaceX all over the place in terms of yeah, the leadership and because those are both private ish industry players, SpaceX.
Is because there's subsidies. They I mean, there's SpaceX and North of Grumman both want to put it out in the public that they didn't do anything wrong. They held up their part of the thing. SpaceX is like the launch was normal, We're good at this, we know what we're doing. And North of Grumman's like, we built it the way we're told to. We're good at this, we know what we're doing. Give us more government contracts, please, three spider Man pointing at each other exactly.
But it really was the SpaceX. They use the term nominally or it functioned nominally yeah, and.
What does that mean? Sort of as expected?
Yeah, but not great but like predictably.
Not super positively surprising, Yes, yes, but did what we thought it was designed to do.
I think of nominally as being sort of a disclaimer almost nomenerally mids thank you.
So, so what that means is SpaceX's rocket shot up in you know, through the atmosphere to its intended altitude. Then it's and along the way it separated from the rocket parts that have the fuel in it, that were boosting it up, the boosters.
Right.
Then once it got to the correct altitude, it allowed whatever is attached to it and it's payload to detach from the main part of the rocket. And then in twenty eighteen, is this when the rockets are returning to the at this point or.
Trying to make the reusable rockets.
Yeah, I just can't remember if that's right in that window when the reasonable rockets were happening or right before. But either way, SpaceX is saying all of those steps.
Occurred correctly, right, yeah, And so what what's happening here is that everybody involved is saying this is not on us.
Yeah, Well, because it was. It was a it was billions of dollars, right or.
A couple, It was a lot of It was a lot. You're right at the reusable the reusable piece of SpaceX and Falcon nine was already in play. I think that was like twenty eleven ers. Okay. Wow.
So yeah, they're saying everything's fine, and it was exactly a billion dollars or at least according to ABC News, and it just burned up in the atmosphere, corning the official story.
Yeah. So the NRO is saying, you guys ask a lot of questions. It's like every time with you people just move on, okay and trust us peace through security and spying. And the odds are right now that Zoom properly did crash or not saying that out of some conspiratorial or skeptical bent. It's more that observers would be able to see some new addition to the sky.
Unless it's designed to not be seen.
Ben. But if it's designed to not be seen, then people would have already launched invisible satellites.
Well what if this is the one man, this is the onealth satellite they made stealth everything else.
Yeah, yeah, we should come up. You know, they're doing new flavors of Coca cola. Uh yeah, did you see her, buddy, Alex, Yeah, the testimonial video. Yeah, I see Raspberry or yeah, I tried Coca Cola dream and it's just gross, and you know, to be fair, they never said it was a good dream. Uh so that's what I get. But but like what if we had I should my pitch Coca Cola stealth Yeah, oh, what is that? I don't want to over thick.
It's it's an empty bottles, nothing in it.
But hey, I know you've been drinking a lot more water lately. Good job, Thank you.
Ben is literally taking a sip from a box of drinking water colors.
That's a waterly Yeah, yeah, it's that's also in the name, but I think it's actually the full like logo that is. Yeah, they've got a little that's a drop. Yeah, okay, but the I just wanted to see that spicy face. No, that's that's not too sharp. I think that's label has a high explosives before.
Yeah.
Yeah, four Energy Midnight cherry Boy, that's at midnight.
Yeah yeah, that's weird with people throw midnight and those things. But speaking of that's still not the sketchiest satellite. I suggest we spend a little bit of time on something our long time conspiracy realist will enjoy. So we talked about all air oh for many years. We did a video on this in YouTube days Black Night satellite. What if the one most important spy satellite up there isn't man made at all? Who would have made it?
Then?
Who would have made who? Indeed, well, the ruse, the kangaroos.
Wait, are we talking about the heat shield? It's just flooding around the space. I'm just joking. I'm just joking. That's not what it is, you guys.
I mean, okay, So the idea is that there's this these extraterrestrials got together thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands, indeed maybe millions of years ago, and they launched a satellite to Earth and it's been hanging out there in like a near polar orbit for twelve to thirteen thousand years now, and for one reason or another, absolutely everybody who can get into space, despite their differences, has cooperated to cover it up. Yeah, pensive out breath.
I mean, look, there is a documentary. I cannot remember the name of the gentleman that hosts this documentary, but I was watching a clip of it the other day and I think I sent it to you guys. I was like, we gotta talk about Black Night again, because there's an entire documentary on about this concept that you're describing that potentially some civilization at some point parked this thing up there as a way to monitor what's going on on Earth.
To signal to or whatever.
Again, Yeah, in combination with whatever other technology we don't yet know about, over a timescale that we cannot fathom. And it's it's just been that way forever, which gets my wheels turning. I think you guys probably too, Like when you conceptualize the possibilities there, it's exciting, Yeah, it is, but it's probably not true.
It's probably well, yeah, what is the truth? As the NRO would say, you're living in a post truth society. Yes, so this is an example of modern folklore like, oh, it's been there for thirteen thousand years, someone comes out and says, oh, and there are photos of it. Oh, and also it's related to whatever my previous pet conspiracy theory was.
So this is like in the same vein as ancient aliens type stuff.
This is telephone game ancient aliens. Yeah, because people kept threading together the basic concept with pre existing unrelated stories and then adding their own thing on the way. What we do know is the the big moment for the true believers occurs in Oh gosh, ISS. It was the STS eighty eight, the first shuttle mission to the ISS, and they publish photos and if you look at the photos, you can see what appears to be a small black object hovering in low Earth orbit above the planet, and then boom, it went all around the.
World Peoplember nineteen eight, nineteen ninety eight.
By the way, yes, thank you, yes, And the idea was boom in one photograph, we've proved aliens are real, they visited Earth, they've been interested enough in life to study it. But there is an answer to what it is.
Well, there's six I think there's six. Yeah, there's six photos of this thing from different angles. Right, which is where? Which is why what you're getting to right now, Ben, That's why it's so important this thing. The shape changes as the shuttle is passing by its location, right, so immediately.
Shape changes in the shape change because of the perspective.
Which which means it But you'd have to look at it. I think one of the reasons they call it Black Knight satellite, which this is maybe a complete conjuring in my imagination, but there's one photo that I swear it looks like Batman with the wings with the wings out. I swear that's what it looks like. Ye yeah, yeah. But the other photo is it just looks like this weirdly shaped, kind of curved on one side thing.
It looks like a regular space chunk.
Yeah, or a piece of a chip that ripped.
Off or something. It looks like cosmic flotsam. Right. Yeah. Yeah, that's because the answer would you choose to accept it, folks, is that the satellite is indeed man made. It's a thermal cover, one of four that was meant to clamp onto a thing to prevent heat loss. So it's like it's like a little jacket for a satellite component. So it's cozy, yeah, and also appeared yeah, and they couldn't. The thing is on the spacewalk. Spacewalks are amazing and terrified and pretty difficult. It's a high stress situation. So one of these four thermal covers got away, and you can see the video of when it goes wrong. It's online. It's just not as popular as the alien satellite videos.
I have not seen this video, Ben.
You can see it. You can see a courtesy of our friends at space dot com and they link to it, and then you can also hear the commander of the st S eighty eight mission saying, hey, I think one of those thermal covers got away from you, Bud. And then they watch it go away. But again they can't It's not like you know, when you have a piece of paper blow away on a sidewalk. You can't turn around and run after it. So they have to kind of like watch it go into space. Yeah, exactly, very slowly. Reachy.
I'm watching the video right now and I'm trying to find this moment. I'm just it looks like it's upside down from my point of view, so I haven't even turned my computer. Okay, this looks more normal. It's definitely astronauts working on the outside, and they've got these things you're describing. Yeah, yeah, but they look way smaller than the object than the size of the object, at least my mind perceives in the photos from.
SDS eighty eight, because again, the the perspective is so tricky. Yeah, because depending on the distance of the object from the standpoint of the photography, it'll look very big in comparison to Earth.
They're very small, but because of the resolution of the photographs, and the resolution is pretty high that it exists that it feels the resolution of the actual object feels very it's like blurry, I guess, and I don't, man, I'm trying to just think back through memory. But it does feel way larger because of the focus for some reason.
Yeah, and it's sort of similar, I would say, to the face on Mars photos because of the perspective that gets forced there. It's not a one to one comparison, and it's a bit apples to bananas. M That doesn't make sense either. I just made that up. That doesn't. What I'm saying is it's not a perfect comparison. But but from everything we can find, the Black the Black Night satellite is or was technically a real thing for a minute until it went into the atmosphere and burned up.
Tway, do we know that that happened.
That appears to be the case. Yes, it was. It was called the cap NASA cataloged it. They call it. It was number zero two five five seven zero. And then because you know, it can't adjust its orbit because it's space trash, Yeah, it's orbit decays rapidly and a few days later it hits the atmosphere, it burns up. Wow.
Yeah, dang, I was really excited. I thought it was still up there.
It would have been cooler it was still up there.
What if it is, man, what if this is another zooma situation? What if this thing was a spent Panspermia delivery system capsule.
And panspermia so like a space condom.
No, no, not a propyleactic.
What I mean is like an IV kind of thing. Kind of Yeah, it.
Gets to the like close to the atmosphere, releases its payload, and it drops in it.
Then call it a spaceload.
Space guys, I propose that we get Adam Durrett's and the Boys and Counting Crows on the case to recover these satellites.
Recover these spaceloads. Uh. It's it's true though, because the again, like if you just look at the photographs as Matt's describing, it does seem really compelling. At least, it seems so unusual that there must be something awry. However, that has been pretty pretty thoroughly debunked. We would of course love to hear evidence otherwise, if you've got something, if you think there's something that needs more exploration. Please let us know. We got a shout out to X thirty seven B check out our episodes on that. Here's how I think we have to end because everybody, like us has been consumed with this idea. As we were talking off air about this episode and having some very very strange conversations about spy satellites that would later become terrifyingly relevant, a weird piece of synchronicity hit. Representative Michael laur Turner, a Republican of Ohio and chairman of the House Intelligence Committee here in the US, went on XFK Twitter is no likes to say and claimed Russia had a new space based nuclear weapon designed to threaten the satellite web of the US. But he didn't say that at first. He did the worst thing that the Internet does. He did a vague post and he said, hey, Biden administration, I can't say what terrifying thing is happening, but it's true, and you have to declassify it so that we can talk about it to the public, which is such a tear. Like you ever get the text where it's like call.
Me, yeah, I hate those emergency call god no, all right, Boomer because he calls anybody anymore.
It's like when your bank sends something and go, we send something to your email, check your inbox, and you click on it and it's like, hey, we just want to let you know we're your bank. Yeah, I don't know.
Wait, do you guys not FaceTime with anybody or like yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
That's different though, And that's something you do with friends that are very close or family members. But you get permission first. You don't just do it sight out the scene. That's aggressive nobody. Oh well, look, I literally only do it with my kid or someone that I've agreed upon in advance. To send someone an unsolicited FaceTime this day and age, I would argue as an active war.
I'm gonna try it with Chuck later and just love that.
I love that. Are you really?
Yeah?
I'm going all right, let us know. Well he is a boomer though, see, maybe he might accept it as an act of love.
No, I'm not quite a boomer X No, dude, boomers are old.
Boomers are like grew.
Up in the sixties in my soul is what I'm talking about.
I see, Well, I'm sad, guys, I didn't know about the wide world of FaceTime. No, no, it's a literally FaceTime with my kid. And that's what. And so current and former officials came out and they said, here's the here's what's really happening. There is reliable, actionable intelligence that Russia is possibly going to violate the Open Space Treaty. Uh, the outer space treaty. Excuse me. There's open skies, which Russia already pulled out of, and there's outer space.
Open skis is a thing where we monitor each other's nuclear capabilities, right.
And monitored by anybody. No, no, no, no, it's all the Iron Curtain for a reason. They prefer a one way streak when it comes to spy, and to be honest, most places do. But what they said here, if true, would be terrifying. It's the idea of deploying a nuclear weapon in space. This is okay, this gets Russian trouble with the UN as if they care at this point. But even more importantly, this could be enormously dangerous for everybody on the planet.
And this isn't starfish. This isn't when we say deploying a nuclear weapon from space. It's not exploding it in space. It's shooting it towards the ground right right, you.
Know, pick your favorite menu item of disaster, right. It could it composed existential threat to a huge amount of satellites if it disables the satellite networks and boom back to the dark ages. It could deploy onto the surface, in which case we've already seen what happens with a nuclear detonation over a populated area. We also know that just like with shooting any satellite out of the sky or forcibly exploding them, it creates so much debris, and that debris creates so much more debris, and we get really quickly into a feedback loop that could render space exploration just not feasible. Yeah, and it's over, and it's over.
You know what we need up there, guys, We need to build a new harp, but in space.
I like it, Yeah right, yeah.
I don't know what it would do up there, but we need it.
We don't really know what it did down here.
We really exactly sent reptilian signals or something like that.
No.
Sure.
The idea is it shoots energy into the atosphere and then it goes in a trajectory that's like an arc back down to a target, and it can have effects allegedly allegedly.
Check out our video and our episode on ARP, and if you used to work for HARP, hit us up. Let us know when you're in town. Let's go get some chicken wings.
That's the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program.
Yes, yes, yeah, the two a's. So there are also other things, like we've proven. One part of these conspiracy theories is indeed conspiracy fact. World powers do conspire to use space as a spying ground. But the thing is they pretty much have to because if they don't, everybody else will. It's keeping up with the Joneses on a macro scale, and since the days of Corona, Eyes and the Skies have been a non negotiable part of any military strategy. But then the idea of taking space nuclear means that it's a step further deploying weapons that have consequences we as a civilization do not fully comprehend. Is existential. Is an existential threat. It affects every single living being, regardless of where you live on this planet. And that's the precipice upon which we stand collectively today. It's terrifying stuff, it really is. So we're gonna end with some mendes ad gosh, I still subscribe to me Undies. You guys do that their quality, it's good stuff. They last a long time. The last pair I got had really cute lamas on them. I just think Mendi's works because we're talking about such a thoroughly pants crapping situation. Absolutely, and literally, you can crap right in them. They're self cleaning when you crap your pants, crap in me Undies.
Us, Yes, because I'm wearing them and I just did so.
Uh, let us know what you think about this how much. Of course, there are many things we didn't mention. One of those is the threat of the threat of defense industries magnifying paranoia and fear because it's good for their bottom line. That's a piece of this. But I think this is also a real conspiracy and a clearer and present danger.
Yes, what's the thing we talk about all the time when there's an election, especially in the United States, but anywhere in any country, when war is like we're on the precipice of war, war's looming, it's gonna happen. Yeah, the incumbent president generally has a much better chance of continuing or to be re elected.
The devil, you know, yeah. Yeah, oh man, So wheels within wheels, webs within space. Even though this is occurring in a vacuum, yeah, it's not really happening in vacuum. This is all connected. We posit. We want to hear your thoughts. We can't wait to hear from you. Tell us what's on your mind. We try to be easy to find online. Oh we sure do.
You can find to the handle Conspiracy Stuff, or we exist on Facebook, or we have our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy. We also exist and then handle on YouTube, where we're rolling out new video content every week, absolutely delight stuff. You can also find us on x FKA and Twitter. We are Conspiracy Stuff Show, however on Instagram and tick doc bewieve it's more.
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We're bringing it back.
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