From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. Our colleague Nol is not here today, but he'll be back soon. They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer Paul Mission controlled decond. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. This is part two of a two part series on a creepy little spaceship series of spaceships called the X thirty seven B and uh we decided we made a we called an audible as they say in the world of sports. We made a game time decision to make this a two part or so we're not going to spend too too much time on on the beginning. We do hope you listen to part one so you can fully appreciate how creepy and weird this is becoming. So first, here are the facts, uh not if someone never heard of space now I'm kidding, this is what never heard of? The X thirty seven B. How would you how would you explain it to him? I would say, imagine the Space Shuttle that you've probably seen, unless you're too young and you've never seen it. Look up NASA Space Shuttle, look at that thing, and then imagine a tiny little version of that that doesn't have any people in it. Right, perfect? Yeah, uh, And now your natural question is going to be, well, if it doesn't have people in it, what does it have in it? And spoiler, we spent most of part one asking ourselves that same question. Uh. Now, we can go over some high level things, the stuff that has been sanitized for public and some but if you are listening to this show, or if you have ever read about this craft in the past, you know that that that stuff is incredibly unsatisfactory. It's not a great explanation. So today what we're going to do is, uh is talk about all the speculation that thrived in the absence of transparency here. That's right. Important things to know before we get into this discussion. The last mission that sent the X thirty seven B up into space lasted for nine and eight days. That means this little thing that is automated was in space for nine days on its own doing some things. There are a couple of experiments that are declassified or that have been spoken about publicly publicly by the people that are running those experiments, but the rest of it we don't know. You need to know that the payload bay for this thing is about the size of the back of a truck, like standard sized truck, So like what could fit in there? And what can it do? Because it can maneuver around. It's not like a satellite that gets put into orbit. It can maneuver, so what's it doing. Yeah, you also need to know that a lot of the stuff we are discussing has been categorically denied by Uncle Sam numerous times, through numerous platforms, via numerous officials, and it turns out that a lot of what they're saying may not entirely be the truth. It's Emily Dickinson style truth. They told the truth, but told it slant. For any poetry fans out there, this this is mission critical here. Uh. You know, sometimes governments, well often governments have to keep secrets, but they also encounter mission creep right and a lot of conspiracies or not theories, but active conspiracies on the part of governments are not meant to hide the things you're thinking they're hiding. Like a lot of stuff is classified not because of what it is, but because they don't want rivals to know how they know it. They don't want those collection methods to be clear, right, And this, this is one of the big sticking points. It's one of the big misconceptions about a lot of conspiracies. That being said, there are a ton of conspiracy theories about the X thirty seven B because there are no real leaks about it. It is a tight ship, which is um not unusually leave us literally and figuratively, it is a it is airtight um well maybe not the cargo bay, but we'll we'll get into this. When you think of this thing, we need to understand it is is that it is one of the most mysterious man made objects in space that we know of. If that sounds like hyperbole, will then strap it. So when we last left off, we were talking about the potential for spying with this craft. If the US wanted to spy, either on the ground or on other satellites or other space technology, they can maneuver this thing around and spy however they wanted to, including hacking into satellites right from space, just settle up to one hack into it, move on. I'm so glad you brought that up that because there's another point we talked about in Strange News. I don't know if we got to it in part one, but one of the basic questions about that kind of hacking, at least remotely, would be do you need that proximity? Right? What would it not be more cost effective to have someone hack it from the ground, right, Like, there are a lot of questions here, and so in this episode, we're going to do a lot of uh devil advocation for and against these theories. We're gonna have a lot of back and forth, and we're doing this in hopes that someone who can give us the scoop on X thirty seven B or one of its global counterparts can contact us and give us a little bit of illumination here. So, without further ado, here's where it gets crazy. We talked about the when we talked about the idea of spying on other satellites, surveilling them somehow maybe the outside possibility of hacking them, we were careful to point out that that was the least crazy theory. There are two other big ones and the proponents, the champions of those theories, guarantee you're going to surprise you. What's uh riddle me this, Matt. What's worse than having someone spy on your satellite? I don't know, grabbing your satellite out of space and then just bringing it back to the US grand theft satellite. Yeah, pay attention, rock Star, Yeah, I know. I could see this working with some of the smaller military satellites and experimental satellites that have been launching in recent years that are I mean tiny. You're talking about a little bit larger than the size of a bowling ball with some appendages attached to it. Um, there are some tiny satellites that would fit easily into this thing. You could probably capture it, maybe not fully intact, but most of the tech maybe could, but kind of don't see it. I don't know that's the thing. It's okay. Would the X thirty seven B or something like it have the ability to physically capture satellites which are small, right, especially the newer wins and going very fast? By the way, I don't think we mentioned that when things are in orbit, they're moving pretty quickly. Uh, would it be able to capture them and keep them in good enough shape that it could return them to us soil with something worth looking at. Right, that's that's if. If that's the case, that's amazing and terrified. We you know, let's go back and forth, right, Um. Experts in the field, Matt tend to agree with you. They've so far painted this as an unlikely goal. Part of it is well once. One part is that the size of the playing is the size of the x Y seven B rather is just too small, at least according to orbital analysts. Yep, there's one person you've found, been Brian Weedon, who said, yeah, it's definitely too small. And you know, this thing is maneuverable, but to have the kind of nimbleness you would need to get under that satellite, get it to fit perfectly into your cargo bay, and then close it up. It probably doesn't have that kind of dexterity. Probably at least they were aware of. Um. But again it's weird because you get the same Maybe it's just unlikely. Well, yeah, that's the thing. So I was thinking about the maneuverability aspect. So yes, it can alter its orbit. That is known as a not not even a secret in this cavalcade of secrets. But altering the orbit is like saying walking right, walking is not the same thing as an intricately choreographed dance. And that's the level of dexterity you would need to capture a satellite with without breaking it right and then having it someone safely ensconced within this craft such that it returns again, it returns in good enough shape for there to be information gleaned from it. If you think about it, folks, it's way easier to hit, damage, and or destroy a satellite than it to safely play some weird orbital you know, carnival game and drop your little claw hand in and then pick it up and get it back into you know, your your robo shuttle. Yeah, I'm just imagining the shape of it, the way the bottom is. Like theoretically you could maybe you could fly this thing just above the orbit of a satellite and just push down on it right like gently, basically dock with the top of it, and then push it down so that it falls out of orbit. That would be used. Yeah, you're right, you're right, because that that seems already like a better idea than the carnival claw hand, but use a magnet. Oh yeah, you could use a magnet if you figure out how to make it not mess with all your magnetically sensitive stuff. Yeah, but how do you deal with re entry unless it's contained inside the ship which is designed to come back to re enter? M M. I don't know, dude, I don't know. I was also after we're done in part one, I kept thinking of the trojan horse, you know, like, how would you this is feels like a trojan horse design too, Like later you could take this technology, make a disguised pay load, and then said, oh, we're gonna get into it anyway. The other the other problem that I think we're we both automatically clocked is, uh, if you're trying to steal stuff, your main thing, the main thing in any heist is to get away, Yeah, anonymously so people can't find you or know who you are. And if you took any action like we're talking about here, you know, taking a satellite, moving a satellite, hurting a satellite, uh, people are gonna know that it was you. Yeah, he's an ethically fraught comparison. Think of shoplifting, no judgment. You know, everybody's got a past some people have chop lifted because they had they had to they needed to eat or something like that. Right, Um, if you are trying to steal something from a store, you know that it's easier when there are not cameras on you, when a manager or an employee isn't staring you down looking right at you. Sure you can take whatever that thing is. You're stealing, whatever that object is, but odds are you're not going to get away with it. You're not going to get out of the store. So in this comparison, Earth Orbit is the store and there are cameras everywhere, and the manager is always watching. There are millions of managers. They have a little meet up on the internet where they just make sure they think that they can follow you around the store. That's serious, Like, that's really not a bad comparison. And then they post on Reddit about where you are and what you're doing, and then yes, and then they uh, they point their telescopes. Okay, look, maybe we're over exploring this, but that's but that's one. I think those are two. Um, those are two important things to point out about the problem with the satellite snatching theory. Right, But that's not even the Um, that's still not the craziest one of the I don't even want to call it crazy to be honest with you, folks. One of the most extreme theories then, is that the X thirty seven b is is is kind of a trojan horse that under the guise of peaceful R and D and experimentation, it's actually paving the way for the weaponization of space, which is a huge thing that the a lot of people just don't think about or care about until they see you know, uh, the latest action movie. Right. Oh yeah, a little thing. You may have even heard this in a fictional story, a little thing called orbital launch platforms. Uh um, maybe a nuke, maybe something else, maybe a rail type situation where it's just a kinetic impact of something super heavy. Because remember this thing is light. This thing is very light. You could probably load it up with you know, that entire back of the truck with something you just let go goes straight down into a target. Yeah, it probably wouldn't be we mentioned this part one. It probably wouldn't be the old school uh tongusten rods that were kinetic weapons, just because that's too big for the back of the truck. But just like satellites, NU Nuclear weaponry is getting smaller and smaller. Miniaturization is one of the um one of the key breakthroughs for any technology, right, and so well for many technologies. Right, there's some stuff you want to build bigger and bigger, But but for what weapons of this sort? I think a lot of people need to shed the idea of a nuclear weapon being a ginormous rocket. The ginormous rocket is simply the means of getting the actual weapon to the target. Right. And if you have already used the rocket to get your X thirty seven B in space, then now you potentially just have to figure out the math of wind to let the cargo door open, he and and and how to you know, how to alter your orbit such that it lands profly where you hope it want will land. You know what I mean? It is if eventually, if you had let's say three to six of these orbiting at any one time, right, and you staggered the times when they came back to Earth to like refuel repairs, all that kind of stuff, the standard maintenance, you could have a fleet of maneuverable orbital launch vehicles just ready to rock. And and that kind of thing is something where even if world leaders had ethical compunctions about it, they would still want to build it because they don't want to be the kid on the playground who doesn't have that toy, because then you automatically will lose all arguments when it gets down to brass tacks, right. Uh. And that's so people are feeling compelled to make it the same reason that people felt compelled to get nuclear weapons, right, because US foreign policy has shown pretty much without exception, that if you attain a nuclear weapon, you won't be invaded. If you're working on nuclear weapons, and you walk back from working on them, right and you start up that work, then uh, no holds barred. I know, time for some freedom, right, which sounds very, very cynical, But that's an a political point. That is just the precedent that the world has seen, and it goes regardless. It goes the same way, regardless of US administrations, regardless of which party or which corporation is in power at the time. So when we talk about this, I have to realize, as crazy as the idea of space weapons might sound, as sci fi as it might sound, this isn't some hot take from Twitter. Some of the most publicly aired concern about this is not from some guy and read it at three am. Not there's anything wrong. We've all been that guy. Uh, and stop some anonymous source. And for chant it's the leaders of other governments with their own space programs, Russia, China, right later on India, you know, and then the brick the brick nations, all of them. Uh. So why don't we pause for word from our sponsors, and then let's go to an expert on this, Dean Chang writing for Foreign Policy. So this article is worth the read. Uh, if you are interested in learning more about this. Uh. This is called when the Chinese look at X thirty seven B, they see the future of space based attack. Uh. This is from Dan Chang and Thomas E. Ricks. Uh. It's a few years old, but but you'll see why it's still relevant. I think so Chang sees a what what he portrays as a fundamental difference in perspective between the US and China. Uh. The military analyst of the Chinese government, well like any military analysts, they think in terms of precedent, they think in terms of structure. So when you see a new technology, one of the best ways to kind of spin out the future of it is to think of what happened, what went down when there was a similar situation, a similar innovation, breakthrough, challenge, war, etcetera. And that's what they did. And we pulled some quotes from this because I think it helps explain their concern. Yeah, let's jump right into the article here. Quote. Just as aircraft initially provided reconnaissance and artillery observation, space systems are seen by Chinese military thinkers as a crucial part of modern warfare. From the Chinese perspective, space has played an essential role in fighting and winning quote local wars under information ized conditions, from the First Gulf War through the Balkan conflicts to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. It really makes sense. So they're looking at just what what aircraft did? How did that change the game? Just being able to fly a vehicle and observed from above, well, uh, we kind of see what it did. Now, what's happening if you could fly a vehicle from even further above? Yeah, And it's I mean, it's a very smart way to think about it. It goes back to the precedent again, but they took it further, right, Um, you know, they're they're also very aware. Any military strategist is very aware now of information as a battlefield. Right, the digital space and now the physical space beyond the bounds of Earth is only another potential theater of conflict of war. It's they're big thing on the side of the Chinese military is the concern about what's called space to ground operations. Those are those rods of God, right, those are the eyes in the sky that can tell you information you wouldn't be able to obtain otherwise. And they had, uh, this is where they're coming from with their concern. They argue, here's another quotation quote. Just as reconnaissance aircraft led to fighter planes to shoot down those reconnaissance planes, and they're then developed bombers for both battlefield support and strategic bombing campaigns, the world militaries will inevitably repeat this pattern with space. It's kind of like how Earth's ecosystems tend to have the same roles filled by any other any number of life forms. But there are predators there. There is a prey class, you know, and then there's an apex predator class. All all the neat little things in between. The order of operations makes sense, and it kind of apes natural evolution. When you think about it, that was unintentional play on words. Of course, you start with a little you know, the easy to build planes, the biplanes, Right, if you survive landing, then you'll have some intel. Right, And then you have someone else saying, oh, snap, their thing works. We need a biplane with a gun. We need a we need a predator. It's always a camera first, almost always, we need a thing with a camera for peaceful purposes. Then we need a gun to shoot down that thing that they have with the camera. Well, now we need a bomb to break their facility where they're building the things that have the guns that shoot down our camera things. And the whole time we're saying this is a matter of national defense. Uh, and you know, and sometimes that's true. So the Chinese government, then, very simple terms, is concerned that the X thirty seven B is in reality the first stage towards developing this space to ground attack capability. Now, there are a lot of folks out there who will tell you that this capability already exists, and what they're doing is making an educated guess based on proven evidence of technological suppression. Right, The idea that something like an autonomous car was already very much around before the public even thought about it. Uh, something like a smartphone or a cell phone was already very much around before the public ever got their first flip phone Nokia, Right, both of those things you're true, by the way, So it's not a guess that comes out of the vacuum. The Chinese and Russian analyst here, they might not necessarily see X thirty seven B as a space bomber now, but they do think it is a hundred percent evidence that there is a space bomber on the way. And they also know you don't need that much trunk space to carry a pretty nasty nuclear weapon. Yeah, in a truck or in an orbital test vehicle, which is horrifying. This is brought to you by Ford. Yes, yeah, that's brought to you by Ford. I mean that's a question though, So I got a question for you on this one, man. Do you do you think this could be good old propaganda and fearmongering? Like is this because governments do this all the time too? Is this a way to rationalize further research and expenditure on home home brewed versions, you know, like that's what the US, the U S and the U. S SR did that all the time, day in day out during the Cold War. They were like, Russia might have psychics, and someone said, our psychic power is real, and then someone else said, Hi, give me several million dollars. You know what, we will look into it, sir. I mean, well, I think there's always going to be an aspect of that, right, an aspect of what you're talking about, the posturing, because you kind of have to, um, because if you don't, you're screwed if you if your enemy has it. But I think there's also maybe look, I don't know who am I, but it does feel like rather than the bomber version that China is thinking about with this thing, I think it's closer to that air to error combat fighter style thing. Um. I don't want to spoil too much, but we got a very interesting listener correspondence via email from someone talking about laser weapons after we mentioned that on a show previously. And while you know, when you look at the X thirty seven B, it doesn't appear to have any kind of capabilities like that, but I imagine you could you could fit this thing with some kind of optical weapon tech and it would be highly effective against other things that are already in orbit rather than you know, a space to ground. Yeah. And you know what, Uh, you're in agreement with those analysts too, because they are pretty clear that they see a progression, a tiered progression. So there they're concern is eventually a space bomber, and we want to be the The implicit thing is we want to be the person the first person with a space bomber because we trust us. Like, that's exactly right. It doesn't matter whether you are a pro gun or anti gun. You know, if you are in a room with ten strangers and one firearm, and one person holds the firearm, how do those ten people who are you going to trust? You're gonna pick yourself to be the holder of the fire? You know. Uh, death's messed up to think about just humanity as a whole. Yeah, And everyone's like, hey, I'm the most trustworthy person here. You know, you guys will have a great vibe. But I just met you. Like that's that's how it goes. And so I mean we're playing around a little bit. But unfortunately that's pretty accurate. The other thing is, is this a legitimate concern with solid evidence behind it, I would pose it. Yeah, I mean it's a tough question to really answer, but we do know the government of China, and if it wasn't for the situation, Ukraine, Russia would probably be in on this too. But the government of China is taking this idea, this concern seriously enough that they're doing their own work to put robo shuttles and reusable space tech in the sky. Just last year, they they've launched several unmanned craft unmanned craft, that's that's old beans. People have sent stuff to Mars and there wasn't a human on it because it's just such a pain in the ass to get humans into space. So like every people know about that technology, it's not classified. Last year, the government of China launched an unmanned craft with supplies for their future space station, which has been under it's under construction. Now you thought the I S S was kind of lame, Well, there's good news for you because there's there's gonna be uh, there's gonna be a pepsi to this coke in the sky. Yeah. The Shan's shun Gong is that how you say that. It's it's translated as heavenly place Oh yeah, it's like a space station. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you can see it. I just think about when there are fully automated vehicles roaming around the streets in San Francisco and other big cities that can deliver pizza. If we're at that level everybody where, it's okay for a tech company to have that. Then the advance estiments that are occurring that we're just not aware of as far as autonomous vehicles go, it's gotta be ridiculous. Uh yeah, no kidding. And that space station. I believe ward space stations ultimately is going to be better in the long term for the humans. But this one is going to be supposedly done by the end of twenty twenty two, so about a month from now as we record. Uh, Like the X thirty seven B, China is playing a lot of its progress close to the chest. August four this year, the PRC carried out the second launch of their reusable experimental aircraft from what's called the Long March to f Rocket. It's serious and it's impressive technology as well. But you thought the X thirty seven B was secret. There's not even a photograph of of the Chinese version. I mentioned it, uh, just in passing when we talked about this on straight each News. But you can see reports of the launch from state owned news sources like SIMWA, But you are never gonna get to see it in person. Odds are if you're listening to this show, you're never going to get to see it in person unless you work in the security services of the Chinese government and you're also listening to this podcast as part of your job. See, so what does that tell us about the X thirty seven B. It's officially recognized by the US government. It's the thing that they say, it's okay, oh yeah, no, it went up there and we can't tell you what it did. But yeah, isn't it cool? What's the stuff that they don't acknowledge? What's the stuff that's going up there that they haven't mentioned at all? M right? But then it might not be insidious. It might just be plain old information management, you know, like it the PR propaganda game is nasty. Might be something where they're testing phase is still so early that they don't want to be in the public eye if something goes wrong. Yeah, Or it could be U A P level stuff. Man, it could be very well. The trans medium object right, Like they're launching from the ocean and they're doing some ninety degree turns. They got a bunch of autonomous vehicles that can function in concert with each other or be independent. Cool. Cool, Yes, sum me up, I'm down. Uh, I'm all for the progress, you know. Uh. Look, so they do report on this this meanwhile, which is you know, to every story that they published is greenlit by the party. That's just how it works. They described the launch, the second launch as this, so they said, after a period of InOrbit operation, the spacecraft will return to the scheduled landing site in China and will test reusable to technologies during its flight, providing technological support for the peaceful use of space. That last part might be one of the most important things, right, because they emphasize this is not meant to be a weapon, even while they're openly accusing the US of doing the same thing, right when the US doesn't talk as much about the peaceful nature of space. There are also no images of the Chinese version. There's super high security at the launches to keep spies out short but also to keep civilians from post like your local space nerds traveling to the Gobi desert and posting a launch or a picture of it on TikTok or whatever because they think it's cool. Uh. But you can so now you have to start speculating, start reading almost reading tea leaves. You know, you're looking at all these little changes and trying to sort of Charlie Days. Some conspiracy dots together, Like we know that the launch tower was modified, and this caused some experts to say, maybe they are launching something with a bigger payload then the rocket the long march usually handles. And then someone else comes in and says, you know, it could be something with wings, kind of like the X thirty seven B because you would have to you would have to make those kind of modifications to launch that sort of thing, which is a lot like a bunch of people in a room going I'm just saying now I might be wrong, but think about it. Uh. And then we know that there another state owned enterprise is working on its own space plane. Uh. And they talk trash about SpaceX all the time because they're they're talking about how they have learned lessons from SpaceX and improved their their model. Their designed the ten Young by the China Aerospace Science and industry corporation or case it uh anyway. But the reason we're saying this is across the world, some of the smartest humans on the planet are working around the clock to be on the winning side of some sort of future that they clearly believe is inevitable. And that should give you pause, as they say, And speaking of pauses, let's pause for one more word from our sponsor, and then we'll uh, we'll return. Let's see if we talk ourselves off the ledge of the orbital platform or I don't know, man so crazy and we've returned, Ben, we have been going over all kinds of theoretical things that the X thirty seven B could be doing up there. What do you think, what do we think is the most plausible? What where where we at? Should we should we just go with let's start with weaponizing space the except that this thing is providing some kind of weapons platform, whether it's um space to ground or space to other space floating objects, right, or maybe even space to moon. Did you even think about that one all too often? Yeah, there are gonna there are probably going to be people living on the Moon within your lifetime. If you're listening now, in one of those giant hollow spaces that they just confirmed a real Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, what better way to shield oneself from radiation? Moon Caves? Moon Caves finally, the newest planned community, the hottest thing on Luna. So okay, we know that the X thirty seven B definitely has some taste goodies aboard, and China might be right that it's paving the way to some degree for weaponization of space, But if you look at the payload space, it seems odd to think they have an active weapon worth taking up the orbit, you know, unless unless it's a dummy thing that they could test. Because again, the part about stealth is you don't really want to get caught. And I know a lot of people are gonna say, hey, what about that uh nine sixty seven treaty that says, you know, thou shalt not weaponize space. It will be for all creatures hugs and angel farts or whatever. The problem is that that thing, if you actually read it, is incredibly vague. What qualifies as a weapon of mass destruction? You know what I mean? What qualifies as weaponizing space? Could you could you do what so many other nations have done and said hey, yes there's nuclear stuff here, but it's for peaceful purposes. We're just building, uh you know, we're just doing experiments. That's m well, you know, I've been I keep thinking about some of the images that I've seen online of this thing. Uh, they're there are a bunch of shots that you can see declassified stuff or stuff that just was never classified in the in the first place, images of the actual shuttle. And you can see people who I'm presuming or either with Boeing or with you know however's running the show right now, and they're wearing suits suits that you would see people wearing around nuclear materials. At least that's what maybe my brain associates with those kind of hazmat suits. Um, it does. It doesn't help my thoughts that this thing isn't associated with nuclear weapons in any way. What do you think? What is that? Do you think it's possible that it could be that or is there another explanation? Maybe? And I really love that set up because I think you and I both agree that the more plausible explanation is people are trying to protect themselves from a very dangerous substance called hydra zine, which is not cool. It's insanely dangerous to living organisms, and re entry can be messy, so they don't know if that junk is going to be on the plane. But yeah, I agree with you. The optics look super sketch, right when you see the people in the hazmat suits. Uh yeah. But an argument in favor of this, the US has a super long history of brainstorming ways to use space in war. Uh. And and the big thing is reaction time. Just like how back in the day Domino has made this huge deal about how quickly they could get pizza to you. The governments of the world stay awake at night thinking about response time. Something happens across the Pacific. How quickly can you get resources they're right, and manpower whatever something happens, you know, like uh, in the South Pole, right, how how many things do you have around the South Pole. It's just like moving your armies in that board game risk in a very real way. This would be a game changer because if you have space weapons set up in that network you describe matt where you have like a several of them in a staggered rotation, different orbits they can modify, then your reaction time vastly diminishes. Now you're just a series of commands away from having retaliation abilities. Then is this real in the document you've you've written down that Russia envisions the world which the U S builds as many as six variants to deploy warheads. I want you to know, Ben, I did not read that in the outline, and I thought six was the number for some reason, And I don't know why. I feel like Russia just came up with that number by the top of their heads. Like me, it's it's a it's a stame of a Russian official who worked who who is not. It's not the same thing as the rush in government. So maybe it'd be better to say Russian analysts, kind of like how he said Chinese military thinkers. But obviously, um, Russia and the US have long been in an antagonistic relationship and sometimes that led to good things, like innovation in the world of space flight, but you know, many other times it led to many, many horrible things. So, you know, against the propaganda question, we have to take this with a grain assault, right, But the possibility, the possibilities are there building a net around the world where anyone can get touched, and that's a scary thing. Uh, and then there's no way around it. You know, multiple world governments have been thinking about stuff like this for decades and decades and decades, all the way back to the early days of the space race. Someone thought about this when spot Nick launched, someone had that what if moment and ran in and was like, I need the following crazy things. And then everybody else in the room was also really scared, and then went fine, yes, go go before the world is destroyed, and you know, and then they came back and they made velcro right they did, Oh my gosh, and pens. Uh, guys, listen, we need you to know. We have to end this episode right now. Uh. There's so many other concepts out there. We talked about a bunch of these ideas. We want to know what you think is the most plausible thing. Is it because the US wants to take UH satellites just pull them in? Is it because they just want a really good space by plane or that's out there just roaming space at all times? Uh? Do they are they making a tinier one that pops out? Remember that theory? Ben, What if they've got UH projector technology and they can pull an old project blue beam from space what's what if that's what X thirty seven is for. What if something gets declassified? What if the speculation becomes so um dangerous, right, potentially destabilizing, that they come out and say what this thing is actually for? You know, what if someone backs up this one thing that's slipped out that a lot of people missed. A few years ago, the Times managed to get an Air Force official to say, okay, the ultimate goal of the X thirty seven B is to aid terrestrial war fighters in a support role. So someone admitted this is tied up with the military in that aspect somehow. I mean, look, this is again some of the world's smartest people see this as an inevitable future. We haven't talked about the problems with the idea of snatching satellites. We haven't really talked about the problem of proximity in orbit when it comes to spying on satellites. But we can say there's a lot more to this story. This, this goes deeper and deeper. We didn't even talk about the X forty one, which is a whole other thing. Right, look to watch in your face X dash for one, do it do it now, do it now? And we've got to go. Thanks so much, as always for tuning in. Folks. Find us on Facebook, Twitter. You can also give us a call directly one three st d w y t K. If none of that white bags your badgers or snatches your satellites, there's always one other way to contact us. You can send us a good old fashioned email. Where we are conspiracy at i heeart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen your favorite shows.

From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. Our colleague Nol is not here today, but he'll be back soon. They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer Paul Mission controlled decond. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. This is part two of a two part series on a creepy little spaceship series of spaceships called the X thirty seven B and uh we decided we made a we called an audible as they say in the world of sports. We made a game time decision to make this a two part or so we're not going to spend too too much time on on the beginning. We do hope you listen to part one so you can fully appreciate how creepy and weird this is becoming. So first, here are the facts, uh not if someone never heard of space now I'm kidding, this is what never heard of? The X thirty seven B. How would you how would you explain it to him? I would say, imagine the Space Shuttle that you've probably seen, unless you're too young and you've never seen it. Look up NASA Space Shuttle, look at that thing, and then imagine a tiny little version of that that doesn't have any people in it. Right, perfect? Yeah, uh, And now your natural question is going to be, well, if it doesn't have people in it, what does it have in it? And spoiler, we spent most of part one asking ourselves that same question. Uh. Now, we can go over some high level things, the stuff that has been sanitized for public and some but if you are listening to this show, or if you have ever read about this craft in the past, you know that that that stuff is incredibly unsatisfactory. It's not a great explanation. So today what we're going to do is, uh is talk about all the speculation that thrived in the absence of transparency here. That's right. Important things to know before we get into this discussion. The last mission that sent the X thirty seven B up into space lasted for nine and eight days. That means this little thing that is automated was in space for nine days on its own doing some things. There are a couple of experiments that are declassified or that have been spoken about publicly publicly by the people that are running those experiments, but the rest of it we don't know. You need to know that the payload bay for this thing is about the size of the back of a truck, like standard sized truck, So like what could fit in there? And what can it do? Because it can maneuver around. It's not like a satellite that gets put into orbit. It can maneuver, so what's it doing. Yeah, you also need to know that a lot of the stuff we are discussing has been categorically denied by Uncle Sam numerous times, through numerous platforms, via numerous officials, and it turns out that a lot of what they're saying may not entirely be the truth. It's Emily Dickinson style truth. They told the truth, but told it slant. For any poetry fans out there, this this is mission critical here. Uh. You know, sometimes governments, well often governments have to keep secrets, but they also encounter mission creep right and a lot of conspiracies or not theories, but active conspiracies on the part of governments are not meant to hide the things you're thinking they're hiding. Like a lot of stuff is classified not because of what it is, but because they don't want rivals to know how they know it. They don't want those collection methods to be clear, right, And this, this is one of the big sticking points. It's one of the big misconceptions about a lot of conspiracies. That being said, there are a ton of conspiracy theories about the X thirty seven B because there are no real leaks about it. It is a tight ship, which is um not unusually leave us literally and figuratively, it is a it is airtight um well maybe not the cargo bay, but we'll we'll get into this. When you think of this thing, we need to understand it is is that it is one of the most mysterious man made objects in space that we know of. If that sounds like hyperbole, will then strap it. So when we last left off, we were talking about the potential for spying with this craft. If the US wanted to spy, either on the ground or on other satellites or other space technology, they can maneuver this thing around and spy however they wanted to, including hacking into satellites right from space, just settle up to one hack into it, move on. I'm so glad you brought that up that because there's another point we talked about in Strange News. I don't know if we got to it in part one, but one of the basic questions about that kind of hacking, at least remotely, would be do you need that proximity? Right? What would it not be more cost effective to have someone hack it from the ground, right, Like, there are a lot of questions here, and so in this episode, we're going to do a lot of uh devil advocation for and against these theories. We're gonna have a lot of back and forth, and we're doing this in hopes that someone who can give us the scoop on X thirty seven B or one of its global counterparts can contact us and give us a little bit of illumination here. So, without further ado, here's where it gets crazy. We talked about the when we talked about the idea of spying on other satellites, surveilling them somehow maybe the outside possibility of hacking them, we were careful to point out that that was the least crazy theory. There are two other big ones and the proponents, the champions of those theories, guarantee you're going to surprise you. What's uh riddle me this, Matt. What's worse than having someone spy on your satellite? I don't know, grabbing your satellite out of space and then just bringing it back to the US grand theft satellite. Yeah, pay attention, rock Star, Yeah, I know. I could see this working with some of the smaller military satellites and experimental satellites that have been launching in recent years that are I mean tiny. You're talking about a little bit larger than the size of a bowling ball with some appendages attached to it. Um, there are some tiny satellites that would fit easily into this thing. You could probably capture it, maybe not fully intact, but most of the tech maybe could, but kind of don't see it. I don't know that's the thing. It's okay. Would the X thirty seven B or something like it have the ability to physically capture satellites which are small, right, especially the newer wins and going very fast? By the way, I don't think we mentioned that when things are in orbit, they're moving pretty quickly. Uh, would it be able to capture them and keep them in good enough shape that it could return them to us soil with something worth looking at. Right, that's that's if. If that's the case, that's amazing and terrified. We you know, let's go back and forth, right, Um. Experts in the field, Matt tend to agree with you. They've so far painted this as an unlikely goal. Part of it is well once. One part is that the size of the playing is the size of the x Y seven B rather is just too small, at least according to orbital analysts. Yep, there's one person you've found, been Brian Weedon, who said, yeah, it's definitely too small. And you know, this thing is maneuverable, but to have the kind of nimbleness you would need to get under that satellite, get it to fit perfectly into your cargo bay, and then close it up. It probably doesn't have that kind of dexterity. Probably at least they were aware of. Um. But again it's weird because you get the same Maybe it's just unlikely. Well, yeah, that's the thing. So I was thinking about the maneuverability aspect. So yes, it can alter its orbit. That is known as a not not even a secret in this cavalcade of secrets. But altering the orbit is like saying walking right, walking is not the same thing as an intricately choreographed dance. And that's the level of dexterity you would need to capture a satellite with without breaking it right and then having it someone safely ensconced within this craft such that it returns again, it returns in good enough shape for there to be information gleaned from it. If you think about it, folks, it's way easier to hit, damage, and or destroy a satellite than it to safely play some weird orbital you know, carnival game and drop your little claw hand in and then pick it up and get it back into you know, your your robo shuttle. Yeah, I'm just imagining the shape of it, the way the bottom is. Like theoretically you could maybe you could fly this thing just above the orbit of a satellite and just push down on it right like gently, basically dock with the top of it, and then push it down so that it falls out of orbit. That would be used. Yeah, you're right, you're right, because that that seems already like a better idea than the carnival claw hand, but use a magnet. Oh yeah, you could use a magnet if you figure out how to make it not mess with all your magnetically sensitive stuff. Yeah, but how do you deal with re entry unless it's contained inside the ship which is designed to come back to re enter? M M. I don't know, dude, I don't know. I was also after we're done in part one, I kept thinking of the trojan horse, you know, like, how would you this is feels like a trojan horse design too, Like later you could take this technology, make a disguised pay load, and then said, oh, we're gonna get into it anyway. The other the other problem that I think we're we both automatically clocked is, uh, if you're trying to steal stuff, your main thing, the main thing in any heist is to get away, Yeah, anonymously so people can't find you or know who you are. And if you took any action like we're talking about here, you know, taking a satellite, moving a satellite, hurting a satellite, uh, people are gonna know that it was you. Yeah, he's an ethically fraught comparison. Think of shoplifting, no judgment. You know, everybody's got a past some people have chop lifted because they had they had to they needed to eat or something like that. Right, Um, if you are trying to steal something from a store, you know that it's easier when there are not cameras on you, when a manager or an employee isn't staring you down looking right at you. Sure you can take whatever that thing is. You're stealing, whatever that object is, but odds are you're not going to get away with it. You're not going to get out of the store. So in this comparison, Earth Orbit is the store and there are cameras everywhere, and the manager is always watching. There are millions of managers. They have a little meet up on the internet where they just make sure they think that they can follow you around the store. That's serious, Like, that's really not a bad comparison. And then they post on Reddit about where you are and what you're doing, and then yes, and then they uh, they point their telescopes. Okay, look, maybe we're over exploring this, but that's but that's one. I think those are two. Um, those are two important things to point out about the problem with the satellite snatching theory. Right, But that's not even the Um, that's still not the craziest one of the I don't even want to call it crazy to be honest with you, folks. One of the most extreme theories then, is that the X thirty seven b is is is kind of a trojan horse that under the guise of peaceful R and D and experimentation, it's actually paving the way for the weaponization of space, which is a huge thing that the a lot of people just don't think about or care about until they see you know, uh, the latest action movie. Right. Oh yeah, a little thing. You may have even heard this in a fictional story, a little thing called orbital launch platforms. Uh um, maybe a nuke, maybe something else, maybe a rail type situation where it's just a kinetic impact of something super heavy. Because remember this thing is light. This thing is very light. You could probably load it up with you know, that entire back of the truck with something you just let go goes straight down into a target. Yeah, it probably wouldn't be we mentioned this part one. It probably wouldn't be the old school uh tongusten rods that were kinetic weapons, just because that's too big for the back of the truck. But just like satellites, NU Nuclear weaponry is getting smaller and smaller. Miniaturization is one of the um one of the key breakthroughs for any technology, right, and so well for many technologies. Right, there's some stuff you want to build bigger and bigger, But but for what weapons of this sort? I think a lot of people need to shed the idea of a nuclear weapon being a ginormous rocket. The ginormous rocket is simply the means of getting the actual weapon to the target. Right. And if you have already used the rocket to get your X thirty seven B in space, then now you potentially just have to figure out the math of wind to let the cargo door open, he and and and how to you know, how to alter your orbit such that it lands profly where you hope it want will land. You know what I mean? It is if eventually, if you had let's say three to six of these orbiting at any one time, right, and you staggered the times when they came back to Earth to like refuel repairs, all that kind of stuff, the standard maintenance, you could have a fleet of maneuverable orbital launch vehicles just ready to rock. And and that kind of thing is something where even if world leaders had ethical compunctions about it, they would still want to build it because they don't want to be the kid on the playground who doesn't have that toy, because then you automatically will lose all arguments when it gets down to brass tacks, right. Uh. And that's so people are feeling compelled to make it the same reason that people felt compelled to get nuclear weapons, right, because US foreign policy has shown pretty much without exception, that if you attain a nuclear weapon, you won't be invaded. If you're working on nuclear weapons, and you walk back from working on them, right and you start up that work, then uh, no holds barred. I know, time for some freedom, right, which sounds very, very cynical, But that's an a political point. That is just the precedent that the world has seen, and it goes regardless. It goes the same way, regardless of US administrations, regardless of which party or which corporation is in power at the time. So when we talk about this, I have to realize, as crazy as the idea of space weapons might sound, as sci fi as it might sound, this isn't some hot take from Twitter. Some of the most publicly aired concern about this is not from some guy and read it at three am. Not there's anything wrong. We've all been that guy. Uh, and stop some anonymous source. And for chant it's the leaders of other governments with their own space programs, Russia, China, right later on India, you know, and then the brick the brick nations, all of them. Uh. So why don't we pause for word from our sponsors, and then let's go to an expert on this, Dean Chang writing for Foreign Policy. So this article is worth the read. Uh, if you are interested in learning more about this. Uh. This is called when the Chinese look at X thirty seven B, they see the future of space based attack. Uh. This is from Dan Chang and Thomas E. Ricks. Uh. It's a few years old, but but you'll see why it's still relevant. I think so Chang sees a what what he portrays as a fundamental difference in perspective between the US and China. Uh. The military analyst of the Chinese government, well like any military analysts, they think in terms of precedent, they think in terms of structure. So when you see a new technology, one of the best ways to kind of spin out the future of it is to think of what happened, what went down when there was a similar situation, a similar innovation, breakthrough, challenge, war, etcetera. And that's what they did. And we pulled some quotes from this because I think it helps explain their concern. Yeah, let's jump right into the article here. Quote. Just as aircraft initially provided reconnaissance and artillery observation, space systems are seen by Chinese military thinkers as a crucial part of modern warfare. From the Chinese perspective, space has played an essential role in fighting and winning quote local wars under information ized conditions, from the First Gulf War through the Balkan conflicts to the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. It really makes sense. So they're looking at just what what aircraft did? How did that change the game? Just being able to fly a vehicle and observed from above, well, uh, we kind of see what it did. Now, what's happening if you could fly a vehicle from even further above? Yeah, And it's I mean, it's a very smart way to think about it. It goes back to the precedent again, but they took it further, right, Um, you know, they're they're also very aware. Any military strategist is very aware now of information as a battlefield. Right, the digital space and now the physical space beyond the bounds of Earth is only another potential theater of conflict of war. It's they're big thing on the side of the Chinese military is the concern about what's called space to ground operations. Those are those rods of God, right, those are the eyes in the sky that can tell you information you wouldn't be able to obtain otherwise. And they had, uh, this is where they're coming from with their concern. They argue, here's another quotation quote. Just as reconnaissance aircraft led to fighter planes to shoot down those reconnaissance planes, and they're then developed bombers for both battlefield support and strategic bombing campaigns, the world militaries will inevitably repeat this pattern with space. It's kind of like how Earth's ecosystems tend to have the same roles filled by any other any number of life forms. But there are predators there. There is a prey class, you know, and then there's an apex predator class. All all the neat little things in between. The order of operations makes sense, and it kind of apes natural evolution. When you think about it, that was unintentional play on words. Of course, you start with a little you know, the easy to build planes, the biplanes, Right, if you survive landing, then you'll have some intel. Right, And then you have someone else saying, oh, snap, their thing works. We need a biplane with a gun. We need a we need a predator. It's always a camera first, almost always, we need a thing with a camera for peaceful purposes. Then we need a gun to shoot down that thing that they have with the camera. Well, now we need a bomb to break their facility where they're building the things that have the guns that shoot down our camera things. And the whole time we're saying this is a matter of national defense. Uh, and you know, and sometimes that's true. So the Chinese government, then, very simple terms, is concerned that the X thirty seven B is in reality the first stage towards developing this space to ground attack capability. Now, there are a lot of folks out there who will tell you that this capability already exists, and what they're doing is making an educated guess based on proven evidence of technological suppression. Right, The idea that something like an autonomous car was already very much around before the public even thought about it. Uh, something like a smartphone or a cell phone was already very much around before the public ever got their first flip phone Nokia, Right, both of those things you're true, by the way, So it's not a guess that comes out of the vacuum. The Chinese and Russian analyst here, they might not necessarily see X thirty seven B as a space bomber now, but they do think it is a hundred percent evidence that there is a space bomber on the way. And they also know you don't need that much trunk space to carry a pretty nasty nuclear weapon. Yeah, in a truck or in an orbital test vehicle, which is horrifying. This is brought to you by Ford. Yes, yeah, that's brought to you by Ford. I mean that's a question though, So I got a question for you on this one, man. Do you do you think this could be good old propaganda and fearmongering? Like is this because governments do this all the time too? Is this a way to rationalize further research and expenditure on home home brewed versions, you know, like that's what the US, the U S and the U. S SR did that all the time, day in day out during the Cold War. They were like, Russia might have psychics, and someone said, our psychic power is real, and then someone else said, Hi, give me several million dollars. You know what, we will look into it, sir. I mean, well, I think there's always going to be an aspect of that, right, an aspect of what you're talking about, the posturing, because you kind of have to, um, because if you don't, you're screwed if you if your enemy has it. But I think there's also maybe look, I don't know who am I, but it does feel like rather than the bomber version that China is thinking about with this thing, I think it's closer to that air to error combat fighter style thing. Um. I don't want to spoil too much, but we got a very interesting listener correspondence via email from someone talking about laser weapons after we mentioned that on a show previously. And while you know, when you look at the X thirty seven B, it doesn't appear to have any kind of capabilities like that, but I imagine you could you could fit this thing with some kind of optical weapon tech and it would be highly effective against other things that are already in orbit rather than you know, a space to ground. Yeah. And you know what, Uh, you're in agreement with those analysts too, because they are pretty clear that they see a progression, a tiered progression. So there they're concern is eventually a space bomber, and we want to be the The implicit thing is we want to be the person the first person with a space bomber because we trust us. Like, that's exactly right. It doesn't matter whether you are a pro gun or anti gun. You know, if you are in a room with ten strangers and one firearm, and one person holds the firearm, how do those ten people who are you going to trust? You're gonna pick yourself to be the holder of the fire? You know. Uh, death's messed up to think about just humanity as a whole. Yeah, And everyone's like, hey, I'm the most trustworthy person here. You know, you guys will have a great vibe. But I just met you. Like that's that's how it goes. And so I mean we're playing around a little bit. But unfortunately that's pretty accurate. The other thing is, is this a legitimate concern with solid evidence behind it, I would pose it. Yeah, I mean it's a tough question to really answer, but we do know the government of China, and if it wasn't for the situation, Ukraine, Russia would probably be in on this too. But the government of China is taking this idea, this concern seriously enough that they're doing their own work to put robo shuttles and reusable space tech in the sky. Just last year, they they've launched several unmanned craft unmanned craft, that's that's old beans. People have sent stuff to Mars and there wasn't a human on it because it's just such a pain in the ass to get humans into space. So like every people know about that technology, it's not classified. Last year, the government of China launched an unmanned craft with supplies for their future space station, which has been under it's under construction. Now you thought the I S S was kind of lame, Well, there's good news for you because there's there's gonna be uh, there's gonna be a pepsi to this coke in the sky. Yeah. The Shan's shun Gong is that how you say that. It's it's translated as heavenly place Oh yeah, it's like a space station. Yeah, I mean, yeah, you can see it. I just think about when there are fully automated vehicles roaming around the streets in San Francisco and other big cities that can deliver pizza. If we're at that level everybody where, it's okay for a tech company to have that. Then the advance estiments that are occurring that we're just not aware of as far as autonomous vehicles go, it's gotta be ridiculous. Uh yeah, no kidding. And that space station. I believe ward space stations ultimately is going to be better in the long term for the humans. But this one is going to be supposedly done by the end of twenty twenty two, so about a month from now as we record. Uh, Like the X thirty seven B, China is playing a lot of its progress close to the chest. August four this year, the PRC carried out the second launch of their reusable experimental aircraft from what's called the Long March to f Rocket. It's serious and it's impressive technology as well. But you thought the X thirty seven B was secret. There's not even a photograph of of the Chinese version. I mentioned it, uh, just in passing when we talked about this on straight each News. But you can see reports of the launch from state owned news sources like SIMWA, But you are never gonna get to see it in person. Odds are if you're listening to this show, you're never going to get to see it in person unless you work in the security services of the Chinese government and you're also listening to this podcast as part of your job. See, so what does that tell us about the X thirty seven B. It's officially recognized by the US government. It's the thing that they say, it's okay, oh yeah, no, it went up there and we can't tell you what it did. But yeah, isn't it cool? What's the stuff that they don't acknowledge? What's the stuff that's going up there that they haven't mentioned at all? M right? But then it might not be insidious. It might just be plain old information management, you know, like it the PR propaganda game is nasty. Might be something where they're testing phase is still so early that they don't want to be in the public eye if something goes wrong. Yeah, Or it could be U A P level stuff. Man, it could be very well. The trans medium object right, Like they're launching from the ocean and they're doing some ninety degree turns. They got a bunch of autonomous vehicles that can function in concert with each other or be independent. Cool. Cool, Yes, sum me up, I'm down. Uh, I'm all for the progress, you know. Uh. Look, so they do report on this this meanwhile, which is you know, to every story that they published is greenlit by the party. That's just how it works. They described the launch, the second launch as this, so they said, after a period of InOrbit operation, the spacecraft will return to the scheduled landing site in China and will test reusable to technologies during its flight, providing technological support for the peaceful use of space. That last part might be one of the most important things, right, because they emphasize this is not meant to be a weapon, even while they're openly accusing the US of doing the same thing, right when the US doesn't talk as much about the peaceful nature of space. There are also no images of the Chinese version. There's super high security at the launches to keep spies out short but also to keep civilians from post like your local space nerds traveling to the Gobi desert and posting a launch or a picture of it on TikTok or whatever because they think it's cool. Uh. But you can so now you have to start speculating, start reading almost reading tea leaves. You know, you're looking at all these little changes and trying to sort of Charlie Days. Some conspiracy dots together, Like we know that the launch tower was modified, and this caused some experts to say, maybe they are launching something with a bigger payload then the rocket the long march usually handles. And then someone else comes in and says, you know, it could be something with wings, kind of like the X thirty seven B because you would have to you would have to make those kind of modifications to launch that sort of thing, which is a lot like a bunch of people in a room going I'm just saying now I might be wrong, but think about it. Uh. And then we know that there another state owned enterprise is working on its own space plane. Uh. And they talk trash about SpaceX all the time because they're they're talking about how they have learned lessons from SpaceX and improved their their model. Their designed the ten Young by the China Aerospace Science and industry corporation or case it uh anyway. But the reason we're saying this is across the world, some of the smartest humans on the planet are working around the clock to be on the winning side of some sort of future that they clearly believe is inevitable. And that should give you pause, as they say, And speaking of pauses, let's pause for one more word from our sponsor, and then we'll uh, we'll return. Let's see if we talk ourselves off the ledge of the orbital platform or I don't know, man so crazy and we've returned, Ben, we have been going over all kinds of theoretical things that the X thirty seven B could be doing up there. What do you think, what do we think is the most plausible? What where where we at? Should we should we just go with let's start with weaponizing space the except that this thing is providing some kind of weapons platform, whether it's um space to ground or space to other space floating objects, right, or maybe even space to moon. Did you even think about that one all too often? Yeah, there are gonna there are probably going to be people living on the Moon within your lifetime. If you're listening now, in one of those giant hollow spaces that they just confirmed a real Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, what better way to shield oneself from radiation? Moon Caves? Moon Caves finally, the newest planned community, the hottest thing on Luna. So okay, we know that the X thirty seven B definitely has some taste goodies aboard, and China might be right that it's paving the way to some degree for weaponization of space, But if you look at the payload space, it seems odd to think they have an active weapon worth taking up the orbit, you know, unless unless it's a dummy thing that they could test. Because again, the part about stealth is you don't really want to get caught. And I know a lot of people are gonna say, hey, what about that uh nine sixty seven treaty that says, you know, thou shalt not weaponize space. It will be for all creatures hugs and angel farts or whatever. The problem is that that thing, if you actually read it, is incredibly vague. What qualifies as a weapon of mass destruction? You know what I mean? What qualifies as weaponizing space? Could you could you do what so many other nations have done and said hey, yes there's nuclear stuff here, but it's for peaceful purposes. We're just building, uh you know, we're just doing experiments. That's m well, you know, I've been I keep thinking about some of the images that I've seen online of this thing. Uh, they're there are a bunch of shots that you can see declassified stuff or stuff that just was never classified in the in the first place, images of the actual shuttle. And you can see people who I'm presuming or either with Boeing or with you know however's running the show right now, and they're wearing suits suits that you would see people wearing around nuclear materials. At least that's what maybe my brain associates with those kind of hazmat suits. Um, it does. It doesn't help my thoughts that this thing isn't associated with nuclear weapons in any way. What do you think? What is that? Do you think it's possible that it could be that or is there another explanation? Maybe? And I really love that set up because I think you and I both agree that the more plausible explanation is people are trying to protect themselves from a very dangerous substance called hydra zine, which is not cool. It's insanely dangerous to living organisms, and re entry can be messy, so they don't know if that junk is going to be on the plane. But yeah, I agree with you. The optics look super sketch, right when you see the people in the hazmat suits. Uh yeah. But an argument in favor of this, the US has a super long history of brainstorming ways to use space in war. Uh. And and the big thing is reaction time. Just like how back in the day Domino has made this huge deal about how quickly they could get pizza to you. The governments of the world stay awake at night thinking about response time. Something happens across the Pacific. How quickly can you get resources they're right, and manpower whatever something happens, you know, like uh, in the South Pole, right, how how many things do you have around the South Pole. It's just like moving your armies in that board game risk in a very real way. This would be a game changer because if you have space weapons set up in that network you describe matt where you have like a several of them in a staggered rotation, different orbits they can modify, then your reaction time vastly diminishes. Now you're just a series of commands away from having retaliation abilities. Then is this real in the document you've you've written down that Russia envisions the world which the U S builds as many as six variants to deploy warheads. I want you to know, Ben, I did not read that in the outline, and I thought six was the number for some reason, And I don't know why. I feel like Russia just came up with that number by the top of their heads. Like me, it's it's a it's a stame of a Russian official who worked who who is not. It's not the same thing as the rush in government. So maybe it'd be better to say Russian analysts, kind of like how he said Chinese military thinkers. But obviously, um, Russia and the US have long been in an antagonistic relationship and sometimes that led to good things, like innovation in the world of space flight, but you know, many other times it led to many, many horrible things. So, you know, against the propaganda question, we have to take this with a grain assault, right, But the possibility, the possibilities are there building a net around the world where anyone can get touched, and that's a scary thing. Uh, and then there's no way around it. You know, multiple world governments have been thinking about stuff like this for decades and decades and decades, all the way back to the early days of the space race. Someone thought about this when spot Nick launched, someone had that what if moment and ran in and was like, I need the following crazy things. And then everybody else in the room was also really scared, and then went fine, yes, go go before the world is destroyed, and you know, and then they came back and they made velcro right they did, Oh my gosh, and pens. Uh, guys, listen, we need you to know. We have to end this episode right now. Uh. There's so many other concepts out there. We talked about a bunch of these ideas. We want to know what you think is the most plausible thing. Is it because the US wants to take UH satellites just pull them in? Is it because they just want a really good space by plane or that's out there just roaming space at all times? Uh? Do they are they making a tinier one that pops out? Remember that theory? Ben, What if they've got UH projector technology and they can pull an old project blue beam from space what's what if that's what X thirty seven is for. What if something gets declassified? What if the speculation becomes so um dangerous, right, potentially destabilizing, that they come out and say what this thing is actually for? You know, what if someone backs up this one thing that's slipped out that a lot of people missed. A few years ago, the Times managed to get an Air Force official to say, okay, the ultimate goal of the X thirty seven B is to aid terrestrial war fighters in a support role. So someone admitted this is tied up with the military in that aspect somehow. I mean, look, this is again some of the world's smartest people see this as an inevitable future. We haven't talked about the problems with the idea of snatching satellites. We haven't really talked about the problem of proximity in orbit when it comes to spying on satellites. But we can say there's a lot more to this story. This, this goes deeper and deeper. We didn't even talk about the X forty one, which is a whole other thing. Right, look to watch in your face X dash for one, do it do it now, do it now? And we've got to go. Thanks so much, as always for tuning in. Folks. Find us on Facebook, Twitter. You can also give us a call directly one three st d w y t K. If none of that white bags your badgers or snatches your satellites, there's always one other way to contact us. You can send us a good old fashioned email. Where we are conspiracy at i heeart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen your favorite shows.