From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeartRadio.

From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeartRadio.

Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noela.

Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noela.

They call me Ben.

They call me Ben.

We're joined with our super producer Paul, Mission Control decand most importantly, you are here. That makes this the stuff they don't.

We're joined with our super producer Paul, Mission Control decand most importantly, you are here. That makes this the stuff they don't.

Want you to know.

Want you to know.

We are returning to an ongoing series about mysterious inventors and scientists. You can check out Part one of Mysterious Inventors, released on December twentieth, twenty twenty three, as the Humans reckon the Calendar. Do you guys remember that one?

We are returning to an ongoing series about mysterious inventors and scientists. You can check out Part one of Mysterious Inventors, released on December twentieth, twenty twenty three, as the Humans reckon the Calendar. Do you guys remember that one?

Yes?

Yes?

Yeah, And it also echoes back to an earlier episode we did.

Yeah, And it also echoes back to an earlier episode we did.

Who's Killing all These Scientists, which.

Who's Killing all These Scientists, which.

Is about assassinations of like open secret assassinations of scientists who are experts in nuclear weaponry.

Is about assassinations of like open secret assassinations of scientists who are experts in nuclear weaponry.

Like definestrations, right, people getting tossed out of windows.

Like definestrations, right, people getting tossed out of windows.

Some of that, yeah, right. But ultimately that one, Kasha came out in twenty fourteen, you guys. That was when in twenty twelve there were some big stories coming out about Iranian scientists being murdered like straight up car bombs, explosives attached to a motorcycle, all.

Some of that, yeah, right. But ultimately that one, Kasha came out in twenty fourteen, you guys. That was when in twenty twelve there were some big stories coming out about Iranian scientists being murdered like straight up car bombs, explosives attached to a motorcycle, all.

Kinds of craziness.

Kinds of craziness.

Yeah, And in each of those cases, of course, there's no real like international justice regime that is trying to advocate for a prosecution, And there are a lot of dangerous third story windows depending upon which part the world you move in.

Yeah, And in each of those cases, of course, there's no real like international justice regime that is trying to advocate for a prosecution, And there are a lot of dangerous third story windows depending upon which part the world you move in.

Whoops on a banana peel. Yeah, but it's also like hard to get motive quickly or intent, you know, I mean unless you're absolutely like in on the conspiracy, Like who do you report this to? And how do you go about reporting it? And like what clues are you looking for?

Whoops on a banana peel. Yeah, but it's also like hard to get motive quickly or intent, you know, I mean unless you're absolutely like in on the conspiracy, Like who do you report this to? And how do you go about reporting it? And like what clues are you looking for?

It's tough.

It's tough.

I mean, maybe I'm just being maybe that's just a lazy way of thinking of it, but it does seem like it would be difficult to figure this stuff out, you know, with any kind of immediacy.

I mean, maybe I'm just being maybe that's just a lazy way of thinking of it, but it does seem like it would be difficult to figure this stuff out, you know, with any kind of immediacy.

That's good for the nuclear scientists, we know they were the victims of targeted killings entirely because of their work leading current non nuclear nations to nuclear weaponry. But in the point you raise, which is mission critical for tonight's conversation, we're seeing we're seeing a bit of human psychology as well. Let's say somebody is working on something controversial, right, non nuclear related, something bad happens to them. Are we to say that they were the victims of a conspiracy or were they the victims of the dark lottery that is accidental death?

That's good for the nuclear scientists, we know they were the victims of targeted killings entirely because of their work leading current non nuclear nations to nuclear weaponry. But in the point you raise, which is mission critical for tonight's conversation, we're seeing we're seeing a bit of human psychology as well. Let's say somebody is working on something controversial, right, non nuclear related, something bad happens to them. Are we to say that they were the victims of a conspiracy or were they the victims of the dark lottery that is accidental death?

Right?

Right?

We can't say everybody is killed because of their hobbies or their career.

We can't say everybody is killed because of their hobbies or their career.

Well, there are also examples that we've come across over the years where it is a prominent scientist, Let's say a Russian scientist who was on the team that brought Sputnik five into being the vaccination against the COVID nineteen virus vaccination that was approved before the final trials were done, right, and then he ends up dying and like let's say, strangled in his own apartment with a belt, which is this is an actual example. Somebody like that dies. Is it because there was some kind of interpersonal conflict that is what is alleged to have happened, or is it something bigger in how the heck do you prove it?

Well, there are also examples that we've come across over the years where it is a prominent scientist, Let's say a Russian scientist who was on the team that brought Sputnik five into being the vaccination against the COVID nineteen virus vaccination that was approved before the final trials were done, right, and then he ends up dying and like let's say, strangled in his own apartment with a belt, which is this is an actual example. Somebody like that dies. Is it because there was some kind of interpersonal conflict that is what is alleged to have happened, or is it something bigger in how the heck do you prove it?

Well?

Well?

And I guess with cases like that where there's a suicide, perhaps there are boiler plate kind of procedures that go into clearing it, making it you know, Okay, it was their foul play, it was there evidence that somebody was here and participated in making this happen, or was this somebody that took their own life. So, but beyond that, it's hard to you know, it's hard to push for like more taking a closer look unless there's like a very clear pattern.

And I guess with cases like that where there's a suicide, perhaps there are boiler plate kind of procedures that go into clearing it, making it you know, Okay, it was their foul play, it was there evidence that somebody was here and participated in making this happen, or was this somebody that took their own life. So, but beyond that, it's hard to you know, it's hard to push for like more taking a closer look unless there's like a very clear pattern.

And so tonight we're exploring stories about scientists allegedly or in some cases provably removed to not to not because they were bad people, but in a larger effort to remove their expertise from the grand chess board of Zabag New Braznetski. We're zooming in on these scientists. Let's give a bit of background. Here are the facts. You know, if you listen to part one, we don't have to spend too too much time on this invention. It's amazing. It's such a superpower. The animals of the world have it, not just humans. Otters make tools, corvids make tools. Cetaceans as well, like animals get the idea of invention, and it's really helpful for the human experiment because it an invention addresses problems that human beings cannot solve with their starting operating equipment. Like you know, you start with the body and the mind. You can't automatically make fire unless you figure out a couple of other things.

And so tonight we're exploring stories about scientists allegedly or in some cases provably removed to not to not because they were bad people, but in a larger effort to remove their expertise from the grand chess board of Zabag New Braznetski. We're zooming in on these scientists. Let's give a bit of background. Here are the facts. You know, if you listen to part one, we don't have to spend too too much time on this invention. It's amazing. It's such a superpower. The animals of the world have it, not just humans. Otters make tools, corvids make tools. Cetaceans as well, like animals get the idea of invention, and it's really helpful for the human experiment because it an invention addresses problems that human beings cannot solve with their starting operating equipment. Like you know, you start with the body and the mind. You can't automatically make fire unless you figure out a couple of other things.

Yeah, I think the big difference with humans is we figured out, like you said, power fire right as the first thing, and then combustion, and then electricity and once once you have power tools. Right, if the beavers have power tools, oh look out buddy, Sorry forests. But you know that is where that is where I think humanity becomes dangerous to itself in any of those other animals that might figure out some tool making.

Yeah, I think the big difference with humans is we figured out, like you said, power fire right as the first thing, and then combustion, and then electricity and once once you have power tools. Right, if the beavers have power tools, oh look out buddy, Sorry forests. But you know that is where that is where I think humanity becomes dangerous to itself in any of those other animals that might figure out some tool making.

Yeah, has humanity broken the game of evolution? That's part of the question.

Yeah, has humanity broken the game of evolution? That's part of the question.

I mean.

I mean.

Look, also, we're talking about discoveries and inventions. Discoveries and inventions, they're closely related. The are kissing cousins, but they're not quite the same. A discovery may simply be an observation. The idea of an invention is the application of a discovery, so it leverages what could be an abstract observation into technology, like a great example of this comes from the Nolan film. Oppenheimer spends a great deal of time on the difference between discovery and invention, theory and application. Multiple points in that film adaptation of Oppenheimer's life, we see the legendary physicist Oppenheimer saying, I am a theorist. I not actually making the thing. I just I understand the mechanics of how it would work, and that's why he needed a team.

Look, also, we're talking about discoveries and inventions. Discoveries and inventions, they're closely related. The are kissing cousins, but they're not quite the same. A discovery may simply be an observation. The idea of an invention is the application of a discovery, so it leverages what could be an abstract observation into technology, like a great example of this comes from the Nolan film. Oppenheimer spends a great deal of time on the difference between discovery and invention, theory and application. Multiple points in that film adaptation of Oppenheimer's life, we see the legendary physicist Oppenheimer saying, I am a theorist. I not actually making the thing. I just I understand the mechanics of how it would work, and that's why he needed a team.

Well, someone can discover a thing and not have the skill set with which to apply it practically, right.

Well, someone can discover a thing and not have the skill set with which to apply it practically, right.

Well, yeah, exactly. The discovery that, oh there are atoms, and this is how we think they probably work. And as you said, been the technology or even the theory is maybe someone could split that atom. Could it happen?

Well, yeah, exactly. The discovery that, oh there are atoms, and this is how we think they probably work. And as you said, been the technology or even the theory is maybe someone could split that atom. Could it happen?

Right? Possible?

Right? Possible?

Then you then you invent the thing that could possibly split the atom. Then you discover again it can be split.

Then you then you invent the thing that could possibly split the atom. Then you discover again it can be split.

And then you parlay that into a world destroying weaponry, you know, and then a blockbuster Hollywood film on the backs of millions of deaths.

And then you parlay that into a world destroying weaponry, you know, and then a blockbuster Hollywood film on the backs of millions of deaths.

And on the backs of barbies. Yeah, the world. My theory is that movie would not have done as well if there hadn't have been the Barbenheimer phenomenon. It's such a it's such a long, thinky kind of movie.

And on the backs of barbies. Yeah, the world. My theory is that movie would not have done as well if there hadn't have been the Barbenheimer phenomenon. It's such a it's such a long, thinky kind of movie.

It's kind of wild that it did so much business in the box office.

It's kind of wild that it did so much business in the box office.

I kind of fell in love when I saw it for the first really dug it?

I kind of fell in love when I saw it for the first really dug it?

Yeah, okay, I thought open. I'm write a lot of poetry to it. Cool. I'm sorry.

Yeah, okay, I thought open. I'm write a lot of poetry to it. Cool. I'm sorry.

I obviously I was not able to make it when we all, when you guys went and saw the movie, and I still have not seen it.

I obviously I was not able to make it when we all, when you guys went and saw the movie, and I still have not seen it.

So I look forward to catching it at school. You should.

So I look forward to catching it at school. You should.

You should watch it on an old school Nokia flip phone with a mono sound, the way Nolan intended letterbox.

You should watch it on an old school Nokia flip phone with a mono sound, the way Nolan intended letterbox.

Right.

Right.

So you know, just like in Hollywood brainstorming, a lot of inventors have ideas that don't lead anywhere for any number of reasons. A lot of times you're a scientist and you say, oh, that's interesting, but the concept is not immediately applicable nor successful because it needs other discoveries or inventions to render it feasible. There's an amazing sketch by the criminally underrated group Mitchell and Webb that talks about this, and they have like an old school Middle Ages Italian esque inventor and he comes up to the money guy and he's got a carved wooden mouse and it's got a little carved wooden ball inside of it, and the money guy is saying, Okay, what is this next great invention, and the whole bit is it's worth watching. The whole bit is the dude saying, well, I don't know exactly how this is gonna matter later, but at some point someone else will invent an amazing thing and you'll need this little carved mouse and you can you know. And he's like, Okay, well what does this mouse do? And he's like, well, you can click on it and it doesn't have a bunch of wires leading out from it, and the money guy's like, yeah, but it's the Middle Ages. Most things don't have wires leading out of them. So I think that's a beautiful way to show how weird invention is, like the vention the flying machine.

So you know, just like in Hollywood brainstorming, a lot of inventors have ideas that don't lead anywhere for any number of reasons. A lot of times you're a scientist and you say, oh, that's interesting, but the concept is not immediately applicable nor successful because it needs other discoveries or inventions to render it feasible. There's an amazing sketch by the criminally underrated group Mitchell and Webb that talks about this, and they have like an old school Middle Ages Italian esque inventor and he comes up to the money guy and he's got a carved wooden mouse and it's got a little carved wooden ball inside of it, and the money guy is saying, Okay, what is this next great invention, and the whole bit is it's worth watching. The whole bit is the dude saying, well, I don't know exactly how this is gonna matter later, but at some point someone else will invent an amazing thing and you'll need this little carved mouse and you can you know. And he's like, Okay, well what does this mouse do? And he's like, well, you can click on it and it doesn't have a bunch of wires leading out from it, and the money guy's like, yeah, but it's the Middle Ages. Most things don't have wires leading out of them. So I think that's a beautiful way to show how weird invention is, like the vention the flying machine.

For clicking and dragon, come on, cavemn.

For clicking and dragon, come on, cavemn.

I think we all, I think we all got it. That's a boy. Let's make sure we all understand. It's a computer mouse. I had in my mind a tiny mouse, like a creature mouse that had a ball inside of it somehow, and I was like, what is this thing?

I think we all, I think we all got it. That's a boy. Let's make sure we all understand. It's a computer mouse. I had in my mind a tiny mouse, like a creature mouse that had a ball inside of it somehow, and I was like, what is this thing?

Early early prototypes for the mouse perhaps looking more mouse like.

Early early prototypes for the mouse perhaps looking more mouse like.

M m yeah.

M m yeah.

And also, I mean with Da Vinci's flying machines, we got some amazing sketches his head was in the right place.

And also, I mean with Da Vinci's flying machines, we got some amazing sketches his head was in the right place.

He was onto something.

He was onto something.

But it wasn't until centuries later that the Right Brothers made powered flight a reality. Also requisite shout out to Charles Chappelle.

But it wasn't until centuries later that the Right Brothers made powered flight a reality. Also requisite shout out to Charles Chappelle.

Uh, black Heart in the right place, Ben, that's what I want to know. Unclear clear unclear anatomically probably quite possible.

Uh, black Heart in the right place, Ben, that's what I want to know. Unclear clear unclear anatomically probably quite possible.

Possibly, so you can you can also stumble across something useful while you're researching a flawed or dead end idea, right like, uh, think of the alchemist. They're looking for the ability to transmute lead into gold using the Philosopher's Stone. They're questing after immortality. They discovered neither of those things, but they did invent pesticides along the way, So thanks for the roundup, Alchemist of old. And they also sort of stumbled into the discipline we call chemistry. And as you know, if you listen Ridiculous history, a ton of inventors died at the hands of their own inventions or as a consequence of their discovery, like everyone from the guy who made the creepy horse statue at Denver Airport to Marie Curie and radiation poisoning.

Possibly, so you can you can also stumble across something useful while you're researching a flawed or dead end idea, right like, uh, think of the alchemist. They're looking for the ability to transmute lead into gold using the Philosopher's Stone. They're questing after immortality. They discovered neither of those things, but they did invent pesticides along the way, So thanks for the roundup, Alchemist of old. And they also sort of stumbled into the discipline we call chemistry. And as you know, if you listen Ridiculous history, a ton of inventors died at the hands of their own inventions or as a consequence of their discovery, like everyone from the guy who made the creepy horse statue at Denver Airport to Marie Curie and radiation poisoning.

Well, yeah, and we know how hard it is sometimes to get things approved for clinical trials or studies or whatever human testing. So a lot of times, you know, inventors who are on the verge of a breakthrough will be like, Ah, we'll not have time for that. I'll just test it on myself.

Well, yeah, and we know how hard it is sometimes to get things approved for clinical trials or studies or whatever human testing. So a lot of times, you know, inventors who are on the verge of a breakthrough will be like, Ah, we'll not have time for that. I'll just test it on myself.

Oops, I died.

Oops, I died.

Right, right, And that's part of that's one of the darker sides too. You know, we mentioned this often because we cannot mention it enough. Suppression of technology might sound wacka do, but it's very much a real thing. You might stumble into an amazing idea, you might win the lottery and purposely create an amazing idea. Your initial concept might be on the money, but there if it challenges the status quo of a system, just like Copernicus, right, then you are going to be in trouble. Here in the US, we have the Invention Secrecy Act of nineteen fifty one, anti democratic, anti free market, very real and top secret.

Right, right, And that's part of that's one of the darker sides too. You know, we mentioned this often because we cannot mention it enough. Suppression of technology might sound wacka do, but it's very much a real thing. You might stumble into an amazing idea, you might win the lottery and purposely create an amazing idea. Your initial concept might be on the money, but there if it challenges the status quo of a system, just like Copernicus, right, then you are going to be in trouble. Here in the US, we have the Invention Secrecy Act of nineteen fifty one, anti democratic, anti free market, very real and top secret.

That's interesting Ben that you liken it to things like Copernicus, which often studies or discoveries, or you know individuals like that that have theories that sort of flew in the face of organized religion or like the governing status quo in terms of them holding on to power.

That's interesting Ben that you liken it to things like Copernicus, which often studies or discoveries, or you know individuals like that that have theories that sort of flew in the face of organized religion or like the governing status quo in terms of them holding on to power.

I guess I think of the Invention Secrecy Act as.

I guess I think of the Invention Secrecy Act as.

Being a little more like along the lines of, like you've discovered a thing that you shouldn't know about that like we it's ours already, you know what I mean, And if you put this out in the world, it's going to compromise national security.

Being a little more like along the lines of, like you've discovered a thing that you shouldn't know about that like we it's ours already, you know what I mean, And if you put this out in the world, it's going to compromise national security.

Maybe it's just.

Maybe it's just.

A modern example, a modern version of that past, you know, threatening the religious status quo.

A modern example, a modern version of that past, you know, threatening the religious status quo.

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but I think that's very interesting.

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but I think that's very interesting.

Yeah, that's the comparison I'm hoping to draw here, because the threat to the status quo, whether that is a secular state power or an ecclesiastical theocratic power, it still has the monopoly over violence. Like you, if you try to find the you know, if you try to find a year by year spreadsheet or markup of things that fell to the Invention Secrecy Act, then you're gonna have at best mixed success. We know that there is a list of compensation. It's kind of like an imminent domain of ideas where they can say, hey, your idea is worth x amount of money, We're going to pay it for this. You can never talk about it again if you do any further research on it. You automatically work for US democracy in the free market, take a backseat every single moment to nation state concerns. I mean, you can invent anything you wish in the US until the powers that be deem you a threat. And you might be saying, guys, it's twenty twenty four. Surely we've evolved past burning scientists at the stake, right, We're past these barbaric acts.

Yeah, that's the comparison I'm hoping to draw here, because the threat to the status quo, whether that is a secular state power or an ecclesiastical theocratic power, it still has the monopoly over violence. Like you, if you try to find the you know, if you try to find a year by year spreadsheet or markup of things that fell to the Invention Secrecy Act, then you're gonna have at best mixed success. We know that there is a list of compensation. It's kind of like an imminent domain of ideas where they can say, hey, your idea is worth x amount of money, We're going to pay it for this. You can never talk about it again if you do any further research on it. You automatically work for US democracy in the free market, take a backseat every single moment to nation state concerns. I mean, you can invent anything you wish in the US until the powers that be deem you a threat. And you might be saying, guys, it's twenty twenty four. Surely we've evolved past burning scientists at the stake, right, We're past these barbaric acts.

Well, you just don't do it in public. Yeah, we just don't do it in the town square. It's a little more covert than that.

Well, you just don't do it in public. Yeah, we just don't do it in the town square. It's a little more covert than that.

And you'll see why we find this optimism a bit chuckle worthy. After word from our sponsors.

And you'll see why we find this optimism a bit chuckle worthy. After word from our sponsors.

Here's where it gets crazy.

Here's where it gets crazy.

There are tons and tons of inventors and scientists whom, depending upon who you ask, depending upon whom you ask, ran a foul of great powers. Remember we talked about Rudolph Diesel. What happened to that guy? Did he just did he just fall overboard?

There are tons and tons of inventors and scientists whom, depending upon who you ask, depending upon whom you ask, ran a foul of great powers. Remember we talked about Rudolph Diesel. What happened to that guy? Did he just did he just fall overboard?

I don't know.

I don't know.

He disappeared on a ship during a night walk.

He disappeared on a ship during a night walk.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, people saw him go into his quarters and then they were folded.

Well, people saw him go into his quarters and then they were folded.

There was a watch like left on his night stand sort of.

There was a watch like left on his night stand sort of.

I believe it was just very much betty By type activities, right, Yeah, But the big point is nobody saw him leave and nobody found his body.

I believe it was just very much betty By type activities, right, Yeah, But the big point is nobody saw him leave and nobody found his body.

If he was deceased and.

If he was deceased and.

He told people he would see them the next morning, it's sketch, guys. I mean, we we we We've already talked.

He told people he would see them the next morning, it's sketch, guys. I mean, we we we We've already talked.

About it, but it's I would be hard pressed to believe anything other than he was taken out.

About it, but it's I would be hard pressed to believe anything other than he was taken out.

It's tough, right, Well, wait, really could what was the connection he was potentially going to sell his technology or.

It's tough, right, Well, wait, really could what was the connection he was potentially going to sell his technology or.

It was like a bad deal to there was some kind of weirdness, right, But wasn't there some kind of weirdness about the deal where it was like, really, was it really lucrative for him or was it kind of like him not getting Delta good hand? It was it was something like in one extreme or the other, Like it was either a really good deal for him, a really bad deal for.

It was like a bad deal to there was some kind of weirdness, right, But wasn't there some kind of weirdness about the deal where it was like, really, was it really lucrative for him or was it kind of like him not getting Delta good hand? It was it was something like in one extreme or the other, Like it was either a really good deal for him, a really bad deal for.

Him, and he had money problems. He had Zack Duffel bags, yeah, cash and stuff with his wife. I mean in each of he's a great example because in each of these following cases, we're going to see accusations of conspiracy. We're going to see a lot of skeptics who say, hey, their invention didn't work. It was pseudoscience. And then sometimes we're going to see a conspiracy blooming just because of what a person was doing before they die, like their career, their hobbies, their interests, whatever view you might take, fellow conspiracy realist, We're going to see a lot of questions that remain unanswered. Maybe we start with a doctor Rodney Marx shout out to what happens when someone dies in Antarctica, which I think has been on our minds recently.

Him, and he had money problems. He had Zack Duffel bags, yeah, cash and stuff with his wife. I mean in each of he's a great example because in each of these following cases, we're going to see accusations of conspiracy. We're going to see a lot of skeptics who say, hey, their invention didn't work. It was pseudoscience. And then sometimes we're going to see a conspiracy blooming just because of what a person was doing before they die, like their career, their hobbies, their interests, whatever view you might take, fellow conspiracy realist, We're going to see a lot of questions that remain unanswered. Maybe we start with a doctor Rodney Marx shout out to what happens when someone dies in Antarctica, which I think has been on our minds recently.

Oh yeah, well, especially when someone dies and the death isn't even thought to be a homicide potentially right for a long time.

Oh yeah, well, especially when someone dies and the death isn't even thought to be a homicide potentially right for a long time.

Yeah, let's let's learn a little bit more about doctor Marx.

Yeah, let's let's learn a little bit more about doctor Marx.

Huh. Absolutely.

Huh. Absolutely.

Doctor Rodney Marks was an Australian astrophysicist who was employed by the Smithsonian Society, and he was a part of a research project in Antarctica for the National Science Foundation. At the time of his demise on May the twelfth of the year two thousand. He was stationed at one of these research facilities. Guys, Sorry, I'm just getting mad true detective vibes such a it's not Antarctica, it's Alaska, but very much revolving around mysterious deaths at research stations in the frozen tundra. The station in question here was called Ammundsen Scott Station in the South Pole, and upon his expiration, his cadaver was flown off.

Doctor Rodney Marks was an Australian astrophysicist who was employed by the Smithsonian Society, and he was a part of a research project in Antarctica for the National Science Foundation. At the time of his demise on May the twelfth of the year two thousand. He was stationed at one of these research facilities. Guys, Sorry, I'm just getting mad true detective vibes such a it's not Antarctica, it's Alaska, but very much revolving around mysterious deaths at research stations in the frozen tundra. The station in question here was called Ammundsen Scott Station in the South Pole, and upon his expiration, his cadaver was flown off.

Of the continent immediately over to New Zealand.

Of the continent immediately over to New Zealand.

Well, let's go ahead and say he didn't have like gunshot wounds, right. It wasn't like one of those things where, oh, this is a homicide, we need to get this guy out, or this person is not doing well, we need to save him and get him out of here. He is dead and he is sent somewhere, right, And.

Well, let's go ahead and say he didn't have like gunshot wounds, right. It wasn't like one of those things where, oh, this is a homicide, we need to get this guy out, or this person is not doing well, we need to save him and get him out of here. He is dead and he is sent somewhere, right, And.

It wasn't cyanid to the good people of Thailand. Yeah, he had this set up there. He had because his condition deteriorated incredibly quickly, precipitously. Was he was fine one day, as fine as one can be living in that harsh, contained environment, and then the day before he dies May eleventh, he is incredibly unwell. He's vomiting blood, like starts mourning.

It wasn't cyanid to the good people of Thailand. Yeah, he had this set up there. He had because his condition deteriorated incredibly quickly, precipitously. Was he was fine one day, as fine as one can be living in that harsh, contained environment, and then the day before he dies May eleventh, he is incredibly unwell. He's vomiting blood, like starts mourning.

Fine.

Fine.

By the afternoon he's vomiting blood, and he dies. Investigators were not able to or still not able to fully figure out what happened because the body, to your point, no, was moved so quickly. They did conclude an autopsy that he died of what's called acute methanol poisoning. No one who was around and was a very small group of people here, just like the board game Clue, no one has come forward to explain exactly how he ran into a cute methanol poisoning. Investigators did rule out suicide. They said, we don't have any indications that this guy purposely consumed this lethal amount of methanol. But then the investigators also said they got stone walled at.

By the afternoon he's vomiting blood, and he dies. Investigators were not able to or still not able to fully figure out what happened because the body, to your point, no, was moved so quickly. They did conclude an autopsy that he died of what's called acute methanol poisoning. No one who was around and was a very small group of people here, just like the board game Clue, no one has come forward to explain exactly how he ran into a cute methanol poisoning. Investigators did rule out suicide. They said, we don't have any indications that this guy purposely consumed this lethal amount of methanol. But then the investigators also said they got stone walled at.

Every turn, So the alternative being that they were slowly fed the stuff for no or that it was just a hazard of the occupational hazard.

Every turn, So the alternative being that they were slowly fed the stuff for no or that it was just a hazard of the occupational hazard.

I think there was a significant amount of it that got into something he ingested at some point, so which then you know, if you're an investigator, you're trying to figure out, well, how did that methanol get in his system?

I think there was a significant amount of it that got into something he ingested at some point, so which then you know, if you're an investigator, you're trying to figure out, well, how did that methanol get in his system?

Right, That's what Ben was saying.

Right, That's what Ben was saying.

And the people who are around him at the time didn't seem to have much to say about what could have happened or what the how it got into his body.

And the people who are around him at the time didn't seem to have much to say about what could have happened or what the how it got into his body.

And methanol is related to alcohol, but it's it's not the alcohol you drink. It's kind of like Prohibition, when a poisons government purpose, right, when the US government actively poisoned people during prohibition. So the question is, yeah, did he get poisoned on purpose? Is this a homicide? And if so, why, And if you're an investigator asking that question, you have to wonder why the National Science Foundation is not helping you at all.

And methanol is related to alcohol, but it's it's not the alcohol you drink. It's kind of like Prohibition, when a poisons government purpose, right, when the US government actively poisoned people during prohibition. So the question is, yeah, did he get poisoned on purpose? Is this a homicide? And if so, why, And if you're an investigator asking that question, you have to wonder why the National Science Foundation is not helping you at all.

That is a little odd.

That is a little odd.

Also, the immediacy of flying the cadaver off to New Zealand of all places, it's a little weird.

Also, the immediacy of flying the cadaver off to New Zealand of all places, it's a little weird.

And there's a piece in the New Zealand Herald that gosh, it was from two thousand and nine. It talks about the well at least it alleges, according to some internal documentation from the groups that were running the station out there, that there was heavy drug use on the station by personnel, heavy drinking by the personnel at the station. And it does I don't know again it it's weird because it leaves open the door to potential accidental poisoning.

And there's a piece in the New Zealand Herald that gosh, it was from two thousand and nine. It talks about the well at least it alleges, according to some internal documentation from the groups that were running the station out there, that there was heavy drug use on the station by personnel, heavy drinking by the personnel at the station. And it does I don't know again it it's weird because it leaves open the door to potential accidental poisoning.

Right like he because he was a binge drinker, had he accidentally consumed methanol right, possibly while already inebriated. And that's from there's a there's a another there. There was another update to that from Jared Booker, we're talking about the same article where where where. They also point out he was one of fifty people on the site. There were there were a lot of people there, but they're all clearly identified.

Right like he because he was a binge drinker, had he accidentally consumed methanol right, possibly while already inebriated. And that's from there's a there's a another there. There was another update to that from Jared Booker, we're talking about the same article where where where. They also point out he was one of fifty people on the site. There were there were a lot of people there, but they're all clearly identified.

They're all clearly if you.

They're all clearly if you.

Were an investigator, you should be able to find and question them. And even the even the assigned coroner out of New Zealand had a problem with this. He said, I don't think New Zealand police and authorities are being given the information they need.

Were an investigator, you should be able to find and question them. And even the even the assigned coroner out of New Zealand had a problem with this. He said, I don't think New Zealand police and authorities are being given the information they need.

So no, yeah, I'm sorry, no shade on New Zealand. But why New Zealand? He is Australian. Was it just proximity?

So no, yeah, I'm sorry, no shade on New Zealand. But why New Zealand? He is Australian. Was it just proximity?

This is just this was an outfit reporting on it. It's David, It's by David Fisher.

This is just this was an outfit reporting on it. It's David, It's by David Fisher.

By the way, ask why they flew the body of New Zealand. Yeah, apparently, I guess, like what for them to do an investigate?

By the way, ask why they flew the body of New Zealand. Yeah, apparently, I guess, like what for them to do an investigate?

Like who? Who? On whose authority? I guess is my question?

Like who? Who? On whose authority? I guess is my question?

Right?

Right?

Proximity would would be the answer, their proximity and available investigative okay facilities. Yeah, but we we also don't know what he was working on, which is the next question.

Proximity would would be the answer, their proximity and available investigative okay facilities. Yeah, but we we also don't know what he was working on, which is the next question.

No, we don't.

No, we don't.

Just part of the weird stuff here and again that's just why it's weird to me when you think about it as either a covered up homicide or an accidental homicide or accidental death right within a close knit organization like that. It was stated, but at least according to this article, it was stated that this should be investigated as a homicide immediately upon the body being found and then moved to New Zealand. They said the investigator said, hey, this should be looked at as a homicide, the medical examiner, but that it was not treated that way, and the organization that was running the facility, basically whether they whether they had anything to do with it or not, people were able to go into his room and actually move things around, get rid of evidence if they had wanted to, and everything was tainted, there was no way to prove what actually happened to him at that point.

Just part of the weird stuff here and again that's just why it's weird to me when you think about it as either a covered up homicide or an accidental homicide or accidental death right within a close knit organization like that. It was stated, but at least according to this article, it was stated that this should be investigated as a homicide immediately upon the body being found and then moved to New Zealand. They said the investigator said, hey, this should be looked at as a homicide, the medical examiner, but that it was not treated that way, and the organization that was running the facility, basically whether they whether they had anything to do with it or not, people were able to go into his room and actually move things around, get rid of evidence if they had wanted to, and everything was tainted, there was no way to prove what actually happened to him at that point.

Potentially, Yeah and A police were still wondering whether there had been US agencies carrying out a full investigation and whether they in New Zealand would be able to have access to that investigation. At this point, it seems like the answer is not really And if we were to say this was a case of conspiracy, then we ourselves would need much more information. We would need to know what exactly Marx was working on. The closest we can tell you is that he was running the Antarctic Submillimeter Telescope and Remote Observatory or wait for it, ASTRO with a forward slash between the T and the R, which I think is just a very cool name. I'm trying to keep it positive. Yeah, he's working for Harvard Smithsonian. But we know the cause of death, but we don't know the circumstances leading to it. The crime scene or if crime it is is absolutely fubar. This is going to remain a mystery unless one of those forty nine people comes forward with legitimate information.

Potentially, Yeah and A police were still wondering whether there had been US agencies carrying out a full investigation and whether they in New Zealand would be able to have access to that investigation. At this point, it seems like the answer is not really And if we were to say this was a case of conspiracy, then we ourselves would need much more information. We would need to know what exactly Marx was working on. The closest we can tell you is that he was running the Antarctic Submillimeter Telescope and Remote Observatory or wait for it, ASTRO with a forward slash between the T and the R, which I think is just a very cool name. I'm trying to keep it positive. Yeah, he's working for Harvard Smithsonian. But we know the cause of death, but we don't know the circumstances leading to it. The crime scene or if crime it is is absolutely fubar. This is going to remain a mystery unless one of those forty nine people comes forward with legitimate information.

So what do you guys think? Is it?

So what do you guys think? Is it?

Is it possible that he ran a foul of somewhat?

Is it possible that he ran a foul of somewhat?

It's just hard to say.

It's just hard to say.

If, like imagine, you're in that isolated place, you've got some kind some kind of personal conflict with somebody else, and it's only it's getting worse and worse because you're so isolated yet stuck together. Methanol poisoning would be a way to do it if you knew that the people or the person was around you that drank a lot, or you.

If, like imagine, you're in that isolated place, you've got some kind some kind of personal conflict with somebody else, and it's only it's getting worse and worse because you're so isolated yet stuck together. Methanol poisoning would be a way to do it if you knew that the people or the person was around you that drank a lot, or you.

Could put it in, right, you could put it in a familiar container or something. We would just need to know more about how the how acute methanol poisoning works, and what the timeframe is. It's also possible that they this person drank from the wrong container. It's also possible they were dosed in a way that didn't involve recreational alcohol consumption whatsoever. It's just tough. But we see again this thing we're talking about earlier, which is the fact that this guy is a scientific luminary, and the fact that his death is and probably will remain so mysterious naturally breeds speculation.

Could put it in, right, you could put it in a familiar container or something. We would just need to know more about how the how acute methanol poisoning works, and what the timeframe is. It's also possible that they this person drank from the wrong container. It's also possible they were dosed in a way that didn't involve recreational alcohol consumption whatsoever. It's just tough. But we see again this thing we're talking about earlier, which is the fact that this guy is a scientific luminary, and the fact that his death is and probably will remain so mysterious naturally breeds speculation.

It's a big problem. There were forty nine other people at the station, right, Yeah, so like that's a lot of suspects. That's what what is who's that the detective who's doing all the movies lately, Like, let's doing all the investigation? Oh man, why can't I think of this? The one about the glass onion?

It's a big problem. There were forty nine other people at the station, right, Yeah, so like that's a lot of suspects. That's what what is who's that the detective who's doing all the movies lately, Like, let's doing all the investigation? Oh man, why can't I think of this? The one about the glass onion?

Oh not pero, No, it's like a I can't remember Daniel.

Oh not pero, No, it's like a I can't remember Daniel.

Yeah, he's excellent.

Yeah, he's excellent.

God, what a cool character. He's so funny.

God, what a cool character. He's so funny.

Just imagine that movie, except there are forty nine suspects, right right?

Just imagine that movie, except there are forty nine suspects, right right?

Oh, and we are getting a message from mission control, Ben wi Blanc. Thank you, Thank you, Paul. Let's move on to doctor Don Craig Wiley. He had all the makings of a future Nobel Prize winner until his body was recovered from the Mississippi River on December twentieth, two thousand and one. Tennessee and Arkansas police forces in collaboration rule this death a homicide. He is a biophysics expert, and he had been missing for more than a month before his body was discovered.

Oh, and we are getting a message from mission control, Ben wi Blanc. Thank you, Thank you, Paul. Let's move on to doctor Don Craig Wiley. He had all the makings of a future Nobel Prize winner until his body was recovered from the Mississippi River on December twentieth, two thousand and one. Tennessee and Arkansas police forces in collaboration rule this death a homicide. He is a biophysics expert, and he had been missing for more than a month before his body was discovered.

Yeah, this is a weird case. It's a really weird case. I think the biggest Well, I guess let's talk about it because it's a bridge, right that he must have gone over, right, But there's this bridge, allegedly or not allegedly, according to the investigation, was pretty protected from somebody going over that bridge unless they really wanted to.

Yeah, this is a weird case. It's a really weird case. I think the biggest Well, I guess let's talk about it because it's a bridge, right that he must have gone over, right, But there's this bridge, allegedly or not allegedly, according to the investigation, was pretty protected from somebody going over that bridge unless they really wanted to.

Yeah, it has a two meter fence that's like six and a half feet on either side.

Yeah, it has a two meter fence that's like six and a half feet on either side.

Which is not easy to get over unless you want to. If you're somebody throwing a body or something, probably not gonna happen. It's gonna be a lot more difficult. It's just a weird place, especially after being missing for.

Which is not easy to get over unless you want to. If you're somebody throwing a body or something, probably not gonna happen. It's gonna be a lot more difficult. It's just a weird place, especially after being missing for.

So long, Yeah, and they found his car on that bridge. He had a rental car that they found on the bridge. Also, abandoned vehicles are going to play a big role in a future episode we're doing. But the FBI does become involved in this case, and controversially they're the ones who say he had an accidental death. Somehow he stopped this rental car on this bridge, looked at the fence and said challenge accepted, and somehow fell over to his death. This another interesting thing here to this pattern we're establishing, folks. His death comes in the wake of the anthrax scare in the United States, and according to his peers, he's one of the few people who would have been able to accurately trace where the anthrax had originated to find the providence of the anthrax, which remains part of a heated debate and conspiracy theories today in twenty twenty four, So.

So long, Yeah, and they found his car on that bridge. He had a rental car that they found on the bridge. Also, abandoned vehicles are going to play a big role in a future episode we're doing. But the FBI does become involved in this case, and controversially they're the ones who say he had an accidental death. Somehow he stopped this rental car on this bridge, looked at the fence and said challenge accepted, and somehow fell over to his death. This another interesting thing here to this pattern we're establishing, folks. His death comes in the wake of the anthrax scare in the United States, and according to his peers, he's one of the few people who would have been able to accurately trace where the anthrax had originated to find the providence of the anthrax, which remains part of a heated debate and conspiracy theories today in twenty twenty four, So.

Your mind reels, right, oh wow, did someone did someone kidnap him and take him away? How did he get a hold of a rental car? It was fifteen days, But your brain you want to go into investigative mode. At least I do, I know, I do. Who would have motivation? To take him away from that. Do you think he would have motivation to want to escape himself, right to disappear for a while because of whatever pressures he's getting. There's so many different avenues that you could go down with him.

Your mind reels, right, oh wow, did someone did someone kidnap him and take him away? How did he get a hold of a rental car? It was fifteen days, But your brain you want to go into investigative mode. At least I do, I know, I do. Who would have motivation? To take him away from that. Do you think he would have motivation to want to escape himself, right to disappear for a while because of whatever pressures he's getting. There's so many different avenues that you could go down with him.

Yeah, I mean it would have been convenient if we're playing the fin game. It would have been convenient to certain people if he were no longer a factor. But then we would also be assigning a lot of agency and ability to people who who would be able to track someone down if they're off the grid via probably like credit slips, rental car stuff, whatever kind of technology. It just seems like it's asking a lot of that conspiracy, but it also is asking a lot. It's asking an almost equal amount. To accept the FBI's official explanation, a guy stops his car, climbs over a fence, and drops to his.

Yeah, I mean it would have been convenient if we're playing the fin game. It would have been convenient to certain people if he were no longer a factor. But then we would also be assigning a lot of agency and ability to people who who would be able to track someone down if they're off the grid via probably like credit slips, rental car stuff, whatever kind of technology. It just seems like it's asking a lot of that conspiracy, but it also is asking a lot. It's asking an almost equal amount. To accept the FBI's official explanation, a guy stops his car, climbs over a fence, and drops to his.

Death right by a hydro electric plant.

Death right by a hydro electric plant.

Apparently, no no indications of suicidal ideation, et cetera.

Apparently, no no indications of suicidal ideation, et cetera.

Ah, feels like a dumping, like a body dumping to me, but a difficult one somehow for some reason.

Ah, feels like a dumping, like a body dumping to me, but a difficult one somehow for some reason.

Oh it's spoiler, folks. We're not giving the ad.

Oh it's spoiler, folks. We're not giving the ad.

We don't have the answers for no of these we want to hear from you at the end of the show.

We don't have the answers for no of these we want to hear from you at the end of the show.

We have no idea you but one last thing nobl reads really quickly. I think there is potential for someone to have gotten to him before he disappeared. Right, So, like weve been we were talking about like having to track him down with rental car stuff and in credit slips. I think there's potential that somebody got to him and then the disappearance occurred because he was with somebody, but then they's.

We have no idea you but one last thing nobl reads really quickly. I think there is potential for someone to have gotten to him before he disappeared. Right, So, like weve been we were talking about like having to track him down with rental car stuff and in credit slips. I think there's potential that somebody got to him and then the disappearance occurred because he was with somebody, but then they's.

Been held and then transported perhaps uh perhaps put to the question, right.

Been held and then transported perhaps uh perhaps put to the question, right.

Yeah, I was going to ask if if you guys thought there was any indication of like some mysterious third party, you know, like and I hear when I think of like dumping bodies, I'm like, well, you gotta have help.

Yeah, I was going to ask if if you guys thought there was any indication of like some mysterious third party, you know, like and I hear when I think of like dumping bodies, I'm like, well, you gotta have help.

To do that.

To do that.

So little has been released.

So little has been released.

Yeah, even now, Yeah, it's it's it's tough. It is a good question, you know, because to to approach an answer here, conspiratorial or mundane, we would need to know at least a little bit of what happened in that half month, in those fifteen days, right, is it possible like when someone gets abducted, for example, if they're being interrogated. Then the idea is you always want them to feel like they can escape the situation at some point, right if they pay obedience and they comply, then maybe they'll get away with a few broken fingers or whatever. And we're not saying that happened here. We are saying that it is a very mysterious death. And you cannot blame friends and family for refusing to accept the FBI's explanation like that. You know, you you would need an accomplice or a perpetrator for a body to be thrown from a bridge, And if someone just decides to jump off of a bridge, you would to make that story stick, you would need to have some indications of their mental state up to that moment, and in both cases, we simply don't have that information.

Yeah, even now, Yeah, it's it's it's tough. It is a good question, you know, because to to approach an answer here, conspiratorial or mundane, we would need to know at least a little bit of what happened in that half month, in those fifteen days, right, is it possible like when someone gets abducted, for example, if they're being interrogated. Then the idea is you always want them to feel like they can escape the situation at some point, right if they pay obedience and they comply, then maybe they'll get away with a few broken fingers or whatever. And we're not saying that happened here. We are saying that it is a very mysterious death. And you cannot blame friends and family for refusing to accept the FBI's explanation like that. You know, you you would need an accomplice or a perpetrator for a body to be thrown from a bridge, And if someone just decides to jump off of a bridge, you would to make that story stick, you would need to have some indications of their mental state up to that moment, and in both cases, we simply don't have that information.

No, it's a weird one.

No, it's a weird one.

Oh yeah, it is, indeed, And I think we got a couple other weird ones on our hands as well.

Oh yeah, it is, indeed, And I think we got a couple other weird ones on our hands as well.

Okay, here's one to that point. Here's one that I'm a little skeptical about. Eugene Malov m A. L.

Okay, here's one to that point. Here's one that I'm a little skeptical about. Eugene Malov m A. L.

L ove.

L ove.

At the time of his death in May of two thousand and four, he was a leading scientist in a being diplomatic here a controversial concept the field of free energy he had been. I think his death though, was probably unrelated to whatever his research was. I think it's I'm like, not one hundred percent, but it looks like it was just other bad actors being bad people.

At the time of his death in May of two thousand and four, he was a leading scientist in a being diplomatic here a controversial concept the field of free energy he had been. I think his death though, was probably unrelated to whatever his research was. I think it's I'm like, not one hundred percent, but it looks like it was just other bad actors being bad people.

Yeah. Again, it's a problem where if you are involved in something that sounds super cool and potentially dangerous, like free energy, right, could you actually build something that would rival the big energy companies? And would they want you dead because of that? Even if you're doing all that stuff, no matter how successful your inventions are and your pursuits are, you can still have problems with other individuals that enter your life that have nothing to do with your research that could cause your demise. I think this might be an example of that.

Yeah. Again, it's a problem where if you are involved in something that sounds super cool and potentially dangerous, like free energy, right, could you actually build something that would rival the big energy companies? And would they want you dead because of that? Even if you're doing all that stuff, no matter how successful your inventions are and your pursuits are, you can still have problems with other individuals that enter your life that have nothing to do with your research that could cause your demise. I think this might be an example of that.

I'm tempted to agree, Yeah, because, like, imagine when you hear what happened to folks, Imagine if this guy had just been really into fly fishing. Imagine if instead of researching free energy, he was researching better ways to build fishing lores.

I'm tempted to agree, Yeah, because, like, imagine when you hear what happened to folks, Imagine if this guy had just been really into fly fishing. Imagine if instead of researching free energy, he was researching better ways to build fishing lores.

Okay, okay, you know so, and then hear this.

Okay, okay, you know so, and then hear this.

And then hear this, all right, so let your minds diverge. We're going multiverse.

And then hear this, all right, so let your minds diverge. We're going multiverse.

Malav's been renting out his former childhood home to a family. The name of the family is the Schaefer family and later the son of the Shaffers. Chad along with one of his friends, Mozelle Brown, and along with Chad's girlfriend Candace Foster, they get charged with this scientist murder in May of two thousand and four.

Malav's been renting out his former childhood home to a family. The name of the family is the Schaefer family and later the son of the Shaffers. Chad along with one of his friends, Mozelle Brown, and along with Chad's girlfriend Candace Foster, they get charged with this scientist murder in May of two thousand and four.

Apparently what happened.

Apparently what happened.

What occurred was that these two guys Brown, Brown and Schaeffer, Chad Shaffer, Mazel Brown, they beat doctor Malav to death. And they didn't do it because of problems with free energy. They did it because he was evicting Chad Shaffer's parents from that rented home because they hadn't paid their rent in a couple of months. And you can see testimony with Candace Foster. You can see where these folks got booked. The investigation looked pretty solid. It's still it took even then, no allegations and conspiracy. It took police years to make the connections and the arrest.

What occurred was that these two guys Brown, Brown and Schaeffer, Chad Shaffer, Mazel Brown, they beat doctor Malav to death. And they didn't do it because of problems with free energy. They did it because he was evicting Chad Shaffer's parents from that rented home because they hadn't paid their rent in a couple of months. And you can see testimony with Candace Foster. You can see where these folks got booked. The investigation looked pretty solid. It's still it took even then, no allegations and conspiracy. It took police years to make the connections and the arrest.

Which seems insane. Welve was there cleaning the home that night at like eleven PM at night, cleaning the home after the eviction, and police didn't think to imagine that those who had been evicted could have been a part of it.

Which seems insane. Welve was there cleaning the home that night at like eleven PM at night, cleaning the home after the eviction, and police didn't think to imagine that those who had been evicted could have been a part of it.

It does.

It does.

It makes me wonder if even detectives can get taken down the wrong path when you introduce something like, oh, this guy was working on free energy. Oh man, right, I don't know. I just how do you not make that connection almost immediately because they they would, These are people who would who would have the perception that they are victims of this guy, right, despite whatever their actions.

It makes me wonder if even detectives can get taken down the wrong path when you introduce something like, oh, this guy was working on free energy. Oh man, right, I don't know. I just how do you not make that connection almost immediately because they they would, These are people who would who would have the perception that they are victims of this guy, right, despite whatever their actions.

Were, Which makes you think too, you know how easily the course of an investigation may be altered because you're looking for anomalous, unusual things things of note, research into free energy is one of those things, more so than fly fishing. But you have to consider all of these aspects. So for those of us played along at home, we have we have two cases where we can't say for sure what happened. We have one case where it does seem like a tragedy, an egregious an egregious act of homicide, but not related to scientific pursuit. Do we want to take a break for a word from our sponsor? I have the feeling we got a couple more to get to here, it seems right.

Were, Which makes you think too, you know how easily the course of an investigation may be altered because you're looking for anomalous, unusual things things of note, research into free energy is one of those things, more so than fly fishing. But you have to consider all of these aspects. So for those of us played along at home, we have we have two cases where we can't say for sure what happened. We have one case where it does seem like a tragedy, an egregious an egregious act of homicide, but not related to scientific pursuit. Do we want to take a break for a word from our sponsor? I have the feeling we got a couple more to get to here, it seems right.

And we have returned.

And we have returned.

Here is another death without an answer what happened to the physicist and nuclear research scientist. We had to do at least one named John Mullen.

Here is another death without an answer what happened to the physicist and nuclear research scientist. We had to do at least one named John Mullen.

Just one John, or one one one nuclear research scientist named John Mullen, named John Mullen out out of the very many. Right, Oh yeah, this case is whoo this one again. If you're just I go so speculative on these and I play the if then game, ben, I think to my own detriment here. But let's let's just do the facts of this one. Doctor John Mullen died of arsenic poisoning, and according to authorities, it's believed that that poison somehow found its way into a drink that he consumed, and they couldmit they made that connection. And initially who did they think maybe was the culprit?

Just one John, or one one one nuclear research scientist named John Mullen, named John Mullen out out of the very many. Right, Oh yeah, this case is whoo this one again. If you're just I go so speculative on these and I play the if then game, ben, I think to my own detriment here. But let's let's just do the facts of this one. Doctor John Mullen died of arsenic poisoning, and according to authorities, it's believed that that poison somehow found its way into a drink that he consumed, and they couldmit they made that connection. And initially who did they think maybe was the culprit?

Yeah, his girlfriend at the time is romantic partner Tamara Rallo. This was also in two thousand and four, and they thought they thought that she would be the top person of interest. She was actually going to be arrested on suspicion of homicide.

Yeah, his girlfriend at the time is romantic partner Tamara Rallo. This was also in two thousand and four, and they thought they thought that she would be the top person of interest. She was actually going to be arrested on suspicion of homicide.

But then what happened, m then she ends up dead.

But then what happened, m then she ends up dead.

And then at the time, investigators on the case didn't really give up much information to the media as to whether or not she'd committed suicide or there had been some foul play suspected. There has, at the time of this episode that we're recording right now, been no conclusive answers to these questions.

And then at the time, investigators on the case didn't really give up much information to the media as to whether or not she'd committed suicide or there had been some foul play suspected. There has, at the time of this episode that we're recording right now, been no conclusive answers to these questions.

So your primary suspect ends up dead, there's no trial. Isn't that convenient? I'm just saying.

So your primary suspect ends up dead, there's no trial. Isn't that convenient? I'm just saying.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Also considering two weeks after the murder of Mullet, and they do conclude, by the way, investigators conclude that he was drinking. He was a mineral water guy, so he drank some mineral water and it had been laced with a fatal dose of arsenic. Two weeks after the murder, his girlfriend Rollo, who's fifty two at the time, she leaves a message with one of Mullen's children, one of his two sons, and in the message, this is per Mullen's son. In the message, she says, quote, don't be surprised if you find my body floating in your dad's swimming pool.

Also considering two weeks after the murder of Mullet, and they do conclude, by the way, investigators conclude that he was drinking. He was a mineral water guy, so he drank some mineral water and it had been laced with a fatal dose of arsenic. Two weeks after the murder, his girlfriend Rollo, who's fifty two at the time, she leaves a message with one of Mullen's children, one of his two sons, and in the message, this is per Mullen's son. In the message, she says, quote, don't be surprised if you find my body floating in your dad's swimming pool.

Wow.

Wow.

See did he did? Did doctor Mullen know something? And he even divulged to tomorrow that he knew something, as you know, connected to his contract with Boeing. But but just the fact that he did have a contract with Boeing. He's working on stuff that could be potentially highly secretive and dangerous, like genuinely secret, secretive and dangerous compared to you know, the free energy or something like that.

See did he did? Did doctor Mullen know something? And he even divulged to tomorrow that he knew something, as you know, connected to his contract with Boeing. But but just the fact that he did have a contract with Boeing. He's working on stuff that could be potentially highly secretive and dangerous, like genuinely secret, secretive and dangerous compared to you know, the free energy or something like that.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I just thought that was interesting because it is convenient. Do you have someone the main suspect die before there's any trial or discovery or anything like that.

I just thought that was interesting because it is convenient. Do you have someone the main suspect die before there's any trial or discovery or anything like that.

Yeah, the best way to keep a tomb secret is to kill the people who dig their grave, you know, I mean shout out to tengus Khan. But also, you know, if we were exercising skepticism, we can do a couple of counterpoints. One, Boeing has a lot of contract workers, right and uh, And two is Boeing's Does Boeing have the operational capability to execute a homicide?

Yeah, the best way to keep a tomb secret is to kill the people who dig their grave, you know, I mean shout out to tengus Khan. But also, you know, if we were exercising skepticism, we can do a couple of counterpoints. One, Boeing has a lot of contract workers, right and uh, And two is Boeing's Does Boeing have the operational capability to execute a homicide?

They just put a hole in a fuselage right right right?

They just put a hole in a fuselage right right right?

So like the more conspiratorial thing would be he had some he had some disturbing whistleblower knowledge of some sort, whether that's croket funding, whether that is poor engineering oversight, et cetera. And that he was silenced and that his girlfriend was silenced as a result. But again no proof, no proof, and police did interview her before death, and they said she was talkative, she wasn't defensive, but I don't, I don't know, you know. Later, Rollo's daughter found a book under her mother's mattress that talks about how to kill people with poison. Most folks are most folks are kind of sloppy on this stuff. Your phone searches aren't secure, and honestly, a VPN is not going to help you.

So like the more conspiratorial thing would be he had some he had some disturbing whistleblower knowledge of some sort, whether that's croket funding, whether that is poor engineering oversight, et cetera. And that he was silenced and that his girlfriend was silenced as a result. But again no proof, no proof, and police did interview her before death, and they said she was talkative, she wasn't defensive, but I don't, I don't know, you know. Later, Rollo's daughter found a book under her mother's mattress that talks about how to kill people with poison. Most folks are most folks are kind of sloppy on this stuff. Your phone searches aren't secure, and honestly, a VPN is not going to help you.

Just to be clear, you guys, I've had a sick family for the last couple of weeks, so I've had a lot of opportunities to hang out at Walgreens and I couldn't help but notice a giant display of I guess it's like defrosting kind of fluid.

Just to be clear, you guys, I've had a sick family for the last couple of weeks, so I've had a lot of opportunities to hang out at Walgreens and I couldn't help but notice a giant display of I guess it's like defrosting kind of fluid.

It's that blue fluid that.

It's that blue fluid that.

Comes in the giant jugs and there's massive warnings on the back about what happens if you ingest it. But my sick conspiracy brain immediately jumped to man, what a way to get to someone who's a big fan of Blue Power Aid?

Comes in the giant jugs and there's massive warnings on the back about what happens if you ingest it. But my sick conspiracy brain immediately jumped to man, what a way to get to someone who's a big fan of Blue Power Aid?

Am?

Am?

I right?

I right?

Dogs love it too because it's as sweet. It's sweet apparently, And that's the problem.

Dogs love it too because it's as sweet. It's sweet apparently, And that's the problem.

Right, You could put it in power Aid, just not one hundred percent, and if someone drinks that stuff five times a day, they'd probably never notice it. If they didn't notice it had been tampered with. But yeah, sorry, that's just These are the kind that's been always says we're fun at parties.

Right, You could put it in power Aid, just not one hundred percent, and if someone drinks that stuff five times a day, they'd probably never notice it. If they didn't notice it had been tampered with. But yeah, sorry, that's just These are the kind that's been always says we're fun at parties.

I'll tell you guys. Okay, So I I go through way too many cans. I'm a bad citizen of the art.

I'll tell you guys. Okay, So I I go through way too many cans. I'm a bad citizen of the art.

You recycle though you're not that bad.

You recycle though you're not that bad.

That true, but but I'm still I think in the in the end, I'm probably not a good I'm not good to myself because of the stuff that's on the insides of those cans and all the everything we've done, all the stuff we talked, all the good ones, and sometimes they don't get recycled, depending on where I am and if I can gain access to a recycling bin or not. Right, I am so paranoid about the click and the pop you get if I open up a can and that's supposed to be carbonated and it doesn't have just the exact sound that I'm looking for, I dump that baby out.

That true, but but I'm still I think in the in the end, I'm probably not a good I'm not good to myself because of the stuff that's on the insides of those cans and all the everything we've done, all the stuff we talked, all the good ones, and sometimes they don't get recycled, depending on where I am and if I can gain access to a recycling bin or not. Right, I am so paranoid about the click and the pop you get if I open up a can and that's supposed to be carbonated and it doesn't have just the exact sound that I'm looking for, I dump that baby out.

Pop right?

Pop right?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Right, you really do that? Yeah?

Right, you really do that? Yeah?

You do know?

You do know?

Wow.