From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeartRadio.

From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeartRadio.

Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my.

Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my.

Name is Noah.

Name is Noah.

They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer Alexis code named Doc Holliday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. A longtime fellow conspiracy realist. As you know, we have been on some sojourns of late and as a result we had we put out some classic episodes that we hoped would peak your interests. We are returning with our weekly listener mail segment. We're going to talk with Ishmael uh uh. Maybe a movie Dick reference, maybe not. We're gonna speak with bat Boy. We're also going to hear from Rebel Devil. We're going to talk about water as power source in a way that might surprise you. We're going to talk about one of our mutual favorite subjects, weird food. But before we do any of that, I think it's time we talk about invasive species. God, I love hearing about evasives. Didn't we do something recently on this species? Yeah, the super big hogs.

They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer Alexis code named Doc Holliday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. A longtime fellow conspiracy realist. As you know, we have been on some sojourns of late and as a result we had we put out some classic episodes that we hoped would peak your interests. We are returning with our weekly listener mail segment. We're going to talk with Ishmael uh uh. Maybe a movie Dick reference, maybe not. We're gonna speak with bat Boy. We're also going to hear from Rebel Devil. We're going to talk about water as power source in a way that might surprise you. We're going to talk about one of our mutual favorite subjects, weird food. But before we do any of that, I think it's time we talk about invasive species. God, I love hearing about evasives. Didn't we do something recently on this species? Yeah, the super big hogs.

Heavy artillery to come back, Yeah, all of all of them, every one of them. Not sure if we're gonna need any heavy artillery today though, because we're talking about little, tiny, invasive species, it probably be a waste of bullets. There are definitely, uh, there are ways. There are ways, and we're gonna hear about some of those ways from bat Boy. Hey guys, firstly, I love the show and I devoured your book. Excellent work, Thank you, bad Boy. About three or four years ago, in the New Jersey, New York area, we started hearing warnings about the spotted lantern fly, an invasive species with no natural predators here that are very destructive to trees and vegetation. We were instructed to kill any if spotted. Okay, living in Brooklyn, it was rare to encounter these actually kind of beautiful, creepy insects, but I would try my best to take care of them. I'm assuming he means take care of them like you know, like mafia term.

Heavy artillery to come back, Yeah, all of all of them, every one of them. Not sure if we're gonna need any heavy artillery today though, because we're talking about little, tiny, invasive species, it probably be a waste of bullets. There are definitely, uh, there are ways. There are ways, and we're gonna hear about some of those ways from bat Boy. Hey guys, firstly, I love the show and I devoured your book. Excellent work, Thank you, bad Boy. About three or four years ago, in the New Jersey, New York area, we started hearing warnings about the spotted lantern fly, an invasive species with no natural predators here that are very destructive to trees and vegetation. We were instructed to kill any if spotted. Okay, living in Brooklyn, it was rare to encounter these actually kind of beautiful, creepy insects, but I would try my best to take care of them. I'm assuming he means take care of them like you know, like mafia term.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Early September last year, I was at a town festival down the shore in New Jersey, and the place was lousy with them. It was almost like a plague. You couldn't walk a few feet without seeing one just chilling or having one land on you. They're not scared, they don't care, like the honey badger. The really wild thing to me, though, was the people. This festival became like a real life whacking Day? Is that a thing? What is whacking Day? I gotta find out about this, because he says que the berry white, Yes, this is a sexual reference. I'm not sure.

Early September last year, I was at a town festival down the shore in New Jersey, and the place was lousy with them. It was almost like a plague. You couldn't walk a few feet without seeing one just chilling or having one land on you. They're not scared, they don't care, like the honey badger. The really wild thing to me, though, was the people. This festival became like a real life whacking Day? Is that a thing? What is whacking Day? I gotta find out about this, because he says que the berry white, Yes, this is a sexual reference. I'm not sure.

Day.

Day.

Yeah, whacking Day. It's an episode of the Simpson celebrated annually in which the citizens of Springfield drives snakes into the town square and then club them to death. Yeah, and then that's the kind of thing we hear. You know what else we talked about recently, Ben, we talked about the cobra problem, you know in India. That was I think they released a lot of cobras to take care of another invasive species, and then the cobras themselves became the invasive species.

Yeah, whacking Day. It's an episode of the Simpson celebrated annually in which the citizens of Springfield drives snakes into the town square and then club them to death. Yeah, and then that's the kind of thing we hear. You know what else we talked about recently, Ben, we talked about the cobra problem, you know in India. That was I think they released a lot of cobras to take care of another invasive species, and then the cobras themselves became the invasive species.

Yeah, perverse incentive because they the government said, we have a cobra problem, so we're going to pay people to hunt cobras for us. People realize they could raise cobras and more cobras than ever. And also Whacking Day shout out. Simpson's Whacking Day is apparently loosely based on some real life occurrences or things like that had happened. But invasive species, Okay, this is one of my questions. I know we gotta to continue, but Noel Matt one of my questions that I didn't get to ask on air a while back. When is a species considered invasive?

Yeah, perverse incentive because they the government said, we have a cobra problem, so we're going to pay people to hunt cobras for us. People realize they could raise cobras and more cobras than ever. And also Whacking Day shout out. Simpson's Whacking Day is apparently loosely based on some real life occurrences or things like that had happened. But invasive species, Okay, this is one of my questions. I know we gotta to continue, but Noel Matt one of my questions that I didn't get to ask on air a while back. When is a species considered invasive?

Like?

Like?

How what? Like? How long is the threshold? You know, because we have a lot of species that weren't there forever and things evolved, does that mean they evaded?

How what? Like? How long is the threshold? You know, because we have a lot of species that weren't there forever and things evolved, does that mean they evaded?

Really good question, No, you're not that last point. In particular, humans are certainly an invasive species, and I think this is a very human centric view of invasive species. But I guess maybe, you know, if we talk to scientists that were involved in various ecosystems stuff, they would probably have a more specific answer. But I would argue that in this context doesn't really become an invasive species, at least in terms of the pr of it all until they really start recon shop you know, i e. Eating vegetation, causing crop loss, you know, literal plague of locusts type stuff. So bat Boy goes on after whacking day and then we're killing the berry white. For whatever reason, everyone from children to the elderly came together to smash them bugs. Good let's he says right there, I'm not really a fan of the smashing. I did, however, learn a useful trick for capturing these buggers with an empty water bottle. You squeeze the bottle, place it over near the bug, and they are pulled in via the suck ship. And then I presume you just put the lid on and suffocate them to death. That the that the is that the more or less humane way of killing bugs juries Maybe out I would I would think worse than just a quick smash. Maybe better for the smasher, but not necessarily better for the for the bug. I know, it's like, yeah, let us know what you think. Thank you guys for all that you do. Your conversations are always a bright spot during the week. Bat Boy and I had a little look see on the internet about this thing, and is indeed quite beautiful and the alien looking. So that's the other thing about you know. To answer your previous question too better or to to piggyback off of it. You know, wasn't it like starlings that were introduced because of somebody that really really liked Shakespeare a lot.

Really good question, No, you're not that last point. In particular, humans are certainly an invasive species, and I think this is a very human centric view of invasive species. But I guess maybe, you know, if we talk to scientists that were involved in various ecosystems stuff, they would probably have a more specific answer. But I would argue that in this context doesn't really become an invasive species, at least in terms of the pr of it all until they really start recon shop you know, i e. Eating vegetation, causing crop loss, you know, literal plague of locusts type stuff. So bat Boy goes on after whacking day and then we're killing the berry white. For whatever reason, everyone from children to the elderly came together to smash them bugs. Good let's he says right there, I'm not really a fan of the smashing. I did, however, learn a useful trick for capturing these buggers with an empty water bottle. You squeeze the bottle, place it over near the bug, and they are pulled in via the suck ship. And then I presume you just put the lid on and suffocate them to death. That the that the is that the more or less humane way of killing bugs juries Maybe out I would I would think worse than just a quick smash. Maybe better for the smasher, but not necessarily better for the for the bug. I know, it's like, yeah, let us know what you think. Thank you guys for all that you do. Your conversations are always a bright spot during the week. Bat Boy and I had a little look see on the internet about this thing, and is indeed quite beautiful and the alien looking. So that's the other thing about you know. To answer your previous question too better or to to piggyback off of it. You know, wasn't it like starlings that were introduced because of somebody that really really liked Shakespeare a lot.

Yeah, he wanted to really he wanted to bring all the birds that are mentioned in any of Shakespeare's writing to the US, and he brought starlings even though they're like barely mentioned, right, he said, Okay, you know, we gotta I gotta be weird thing, and he as a result, they are everywhere. He actually, I think he only mentioned starlings. The Bard only mentioned starlings once in Henry the Fourth, but still that was enough to totally throw an ecosystem in the US off its rails. I mean, I don't know, like invasive species, man. We know we know that humans are a huge vector for invasive species. I was looking into this. One of the most popular pieces of speculation I heard was that earthworms are considered one of the og invasive species.

Yeah, he wanted to really he wanted to bring all the birds that are mentioned in any of Shakespeare's writing to the US, and he brought starlings even though they're like barely mentioned, right, he said, Okay, you know, we gotta I gotta be weird thing, and he as a result, they are everywhere. He actually, I think he only mentioned starlings. The Bard only mentioned starlings once in Henry the Fourth, but still that was enough to totally throw an ecosystem in the US off its rails. I mean, I don't know, like invasive species, man. We know we know that humans are a huge vector for invasive species. I was looking into this. One of the most popular pieces of speculation I heard was that earthworms are considered one of the og invasive species.

Well, that's that's exactly right. And to the point about when does it become I think it's an invasive species, like initially when the ecosystem kind of can't contain it, and then you either kill it off entirely, which is we know, is just pretty difficult or things just kind of adjust because we still have starlings. Oh yeah, you know, and they're not like destroying stuff in the way they maybe were when they first you know, showed up in the chat.

Well, that's that's exactly right. And to the point about when does it become I think it's an invasive species, like initially when the ecosystem kind of can't contain it, and then you either kill it off entirely, which is we know, is just pretty difficult or things just kind of adjust because we still have starlings. Oh yeah, you know, and they're not like destroying stuff in the way they maybe were when they first you know, showed up in the chat.

Maybe it's okay, So we know that invasive species can spread naturally, but I think humans are the big piece of the equation. What maybe maybe an invasive species is one that is causing harm to an ecosystem as is. But think about the Pacific Islands, right, they are all these nearly countless archipelagos and little dots of land across there, and different animals with or without humans are moving through them. Right. They're birds who carry and defecate seeds that sprout. I don't know, man, I just this is puzzling me. No, Like when is it's like those old towns in New England where you're still an outsider. If it is just your great grandparents movie there.

Maybe it's okay, So we know that invasive species can spread naturally, but I think humans are the big piece of the equation. What maybe maybe an invasive species is one that is causing harm to an ecosystem as is. But think about the Pacific Islands, right, they are all these nearly countless archipelagos and little dots of land across there, and different animals with or without humans are moving through them. Right. They're birds who carry and defecate seeds that sprout. I don't know, man, I just this is puzzling me. No, Like when is it's like those old towns in New England where you're still an outsider. If it is just your great grandparents movie there.

You become a local. Yeah, I mean, well, the National Geographic describes three qualities of an invasive species, one which is I think pretty obvious. What we've discussed is that they can adapt very quickly and also of course reproduce very quickly. But the other one is kind of what we were speculating that it has to harm property, the economy, or the native plants and animals of the region.

You become a local. Yeah, I mean, well, the National Geographic describes three qualities of an invasive species, one which is I think pretty obvious. What we've discussed is that they can adapt very quickly and also of course reproduce very quickly. But the other one is kind of what we were speculating that it has to harm property, the economy, or the native plants and animals of the region.

Wow, they're third on the lists.

Wow, they're third on the lists.

Yeah, let's talk about the threat the spotted land entern fly poses to New Jersey, Connecticut, Delaware, Indiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Virginia, and West Virginia.

Yeah, let's talk about the threat the spotted land entern fly poses to New Jersey, Connecticut, Delaware, Indiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Virginia, and West Virginia.

And more to come.

And more to come.

First of all, the spot at lanternfly is native to China and it was first discovered in Pennsylvania in September of twenty fourteen. I was quite a while ago. You might be saying. It feeds on a lot of different stuff, including fruit trees, some kind of woody type trees, and they can spread their their larva. You know pretty far what they threaten, you know, So Pennsylvania is when they were first discovered. We don't have like a patient zero kind of situation as to like who brought them exactly, but you know, I would imagine they traveled over, maybe in someone's clothes or I don't know. We don't have any indication that they can survive that way either.

First of all, the spot at lanternfly is native to China and it was first discovered in Pennsylvania in September of twenty fourteen. I was quite a while ago. You might be saying. It feeds on a lot of different stuff, including fruit trees, some kind of woody type trees, and they can spread their their larva. You know pretty far what they threaten, you know, So Pennsylvania is when they were first discovered. We don't have like a patient zero kind of situation as to like who brought them exactly, but you know, I would imagine they traveled over, maybe in someone's clothes or I don't know. We don't have any indication that they can survive that way either.

Have you seen the egg masses. There are pictures of the egg masses as they create that are absolutely horrifying looking.

Have you seen the egg masses. There are pictures of the egg masses as they create that are absolutely horrifying looking.

Yeah, is that the thing that's on the tree. Yeah? Man, they really do look kind of like face hugger, you know, larva maleian pod things. So they look pretty robust, let's just say. But they're also they're quite large, so I am a shit.

Yeah, is that the thing that's on the tree. Yeah? Man, they really do look kind of like face hugger, you know, larva maleian pod things. So they look pretty robust, let's just say. But they're also they're quite large, so I am a shit.

You know.

You know.

It could also these kinds of things can happen because of things like.

It could also these kinds of things can happen because of things like.

Lab leaks, right sure, yeah, I mean essentially, the the cocktail Napkin hypothesis would be that if you have humans entering a new environment, the odds are incredibly high that they will bring other species with them, even even if they are on purpose trying not to. And some countries are very very protective of this. Some some like states, even the state of Hawaii, is notoriously strict about what can be taken in or out of that area. Australia is the same way. There was There was once a TV show, I want to say about Australian customs and the stuff people would try to take in and out of the country. And it wasn't necessarily always like drugs or you know, loose diamonds. The billionaire's favorite accessory. It was stuff like plant seeds. I don't know, it seems like the you know, even without humans, the demands of evolution, the brutal cost benefit of survival on this planet would necessitate species invading. Right, That's how the sausage of life is made. But Okay, so these lantern flies, I guess it's important to eliminate them if possible, because they're sort of exacerbating a problem that already exists with the decline in b population, right, agricultures and trouble.

Lab leaks, right sure, yeah, I mean essentially, the the cocktail Napkin hypothesis would be that if you have humans entering a new environment, the odds are incredibly high that they will bring other species with them, even even if they are on purpose trying not to. And some countries are very very protective of this. Some some like states, even the state of Hawaii, is notoriously strict about what can be taken in or out of that area. Australia is the same way. There was There was once a TV show, I want to say about Australian customs and the stuff people would try to take in and out of the country. And it wasn't necessarily always like drugs or you know, loose diamonds. The billionaire's favorite accessory. It was stuff like plant seeds. I don't know, it seems like the you know, even without humans, the demands of evolution, the brutal cost benefit of survival on this planet would necessitate species invading. Right, That's how the sausage of life is made. But Okay, so these lantern flies, I guess it's important to eliminate them if possible, because they're sort of exacerbating a problem that already exists with the decline in b population, right, agricultures and trouble.

That's for sure. And also, I mean we're looking at a list of things that they do threaten. Chief among them is hops. So if you're worried about getting you know, know, your local craft beer, the spotted lantern fly could potentially, you know, be your worst enemy there. But they do kind of look like a moth in a way, sort of like the silence of the lamb's moth. But they are also they've got really bright red kind of coloration on their wings, and then they've got a middle section that looks a little bit more like a drabber kind of color, and then they've got this top layer. They're all three wing sections are different, which is super cool. And then the body of it almost looks like a bumble bee or like a like a carpenter bee or something.

That's for sure. And also, I mean we're looking at a list of things that they do threaten. Chief among them is hops. So if you're worried about getting you know, know, your local craft beer, the spotted lantern fly could potentially, you know, be your worst enemy there. But they do kind of look like a moth in a way, sort of like the silence of the lamb's moth. But they are also they've got really bright red kind of coloration on their wings, and then they've got a middle section that looks a little bit more like a drabber kind of color, and then they've got this top layer. They're all three wing sections are different, which is super cool. And then the body of it almost looks like a bumble bee or like a like a carpenter bee or something.

It's like an anime insect.

It's like an anime insect.

It is. It looks like it was designed by you know, the studio Ghibli or Ghibli Gift Jiff, whichever. So this is I don't know that this is really just an opportunity to talk about exactly what we've just talked about. I don't think we're necessarily going to see a plague of spotted lantern flies spread across the globe, but you know, it is one among the list of potential things that we have seen cause huge issues throughout history, right like plagues eliminating crops and causing famine. And you know, we like to think that were prepared for all of that kind of stuff, and we liked, we would have liked to think that we would be prepared for, you know, any pandemic that might have hit us, but we certainly weren't. So it's just kind of a wake up call that, like, you know, there are things like this that could enter into our environment that could really really cause problems if this circumstances were just right.

It is. It looks like it was designed by you know, the studio Ghibli or Ghibli Gift Jiff, whichever. So this is I don't know that this is really just an opportunity to talk about exactly what we've just talked about. I don't think we're necessarily going to see a plague of spotted lantern flies spread across the globe, but you know, it is one among the list of potential things that we have seen cause huge issues throughout history, right like plagues eliminating crops and causing famine. And you know, we like to think that were prepared for all of that kind of stuff, and we liked, we would have liked to think that we would be prepared for, you know, any pandemic that might have hit us, but we certainly weren't. So it's just kind of a wake up call that, like, you know, there are things like this that could enter into our environment that could really really cause problems if this circumstances were just right.

Oh yeah, I mean, look if you live. In many areas of the southeastern United States. One of the most famous or readily visible invasive species is kudzu. Kudzu is nuts man. The local flora was not prepared for this thing, which will literally appear to eat buildings.

Oh yeah, I mean, look if you live. In many areas of the southeastern United States. One of the most famous or readily visible invasive species is kudzu. Kudzu is nuts man. The local flora was not prepared for this thing, which will literally appear to eat buildings.

And what did it do. It kind of became the signature vegetation of the region because it's just's so damn well and just flourished. It became like inescapable. So now it's like, you know, people from outside of the South, Oh, cutzoo, that's the Appalachio. That's charming. Yeah, I mean you say that now. Yeah.

And what did it do. It kind of became the signature vegetation of the region because it's just's so damn well and just flourished. It became like inescapable. So now it's like, you know, people from outside of the South, Oh, cutzoo, that's the Appalachio. That's charming. Yeah, I mean you say that now. Yeah.

I'm looking at the list of top invasive species in the United States and this is from twenty twenty two, and number one is the Asian giant hornet. Number four is the spott at lanternfly. I want to give a shout out to the dark horse of the whole list, number two, the Burmese python. Yeah, that's kind of I did not see that one coming. I guess that's how they get you because they're pythons.

I'm looking at the list of top invasive species in the United States and this is from twenty twenty two, and number one is the Asian giant hornet. Number four is the spott at lanternfly. I want to give a shout out to the dark horse of the whole list, number two, the Burmese python. Yeah, that's kind of I did not see that one coming. I guess that's how they get you because they're pythons.

Mm hmm.

Mm hmm.

Now I'm over on the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service website for the USDA, and guys, I just learned about something called sudden oak death.

Now I'm over on the Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service website for the USDA, and guys, I just learned about something called sudden oak death.

That sounds like something that like magic the gathering, doesn't it kind of spell? Yeah?

That sounds like something that like magic the gathering, doesn't it kind of spell? Yeah?

In this case, it's a disease that was first spot in the San Francisco Bay area in the nineteen nineties and it's caused by mold.

In this case, it's a disease that was first spot in the San Francisco Bay area in the nineteen nineties and it's caused by mold.

Wow, okay, so mold can be invasive. Domestic cats can be evasive. Shout out feral swine. You know, they're having what PR the PR industry would call a moment. I think it'd be really fascinating to explore invasive species. I wonder if they've ever been weaponized. It just seems like the scale of time that they would need to work might make them not the most effective weapon. But yeah, still, I'm just stuck on this. At what point is a species no longer invasive? At what point does science say, well, they've been here long enough. You know, it's been ten thousand years, stop calling them invasive. They live here now exactly.

Wow, okay, so mold can be invasive. Domestic cats can be evasive. Shout out feral swine. You know, they're having what PR the PR industry would call a moment. I think it'd be really fascinating to explore invasive species. I wonder if they've ever been weaponized. It just seems like the scale of time that they would need to work might make them not the most effective weapon. But yeah, still, I'm just stuck on this. At what point is a species no longer invasive? At what point does science say, well, they've been here long enough. You know, it's been ten thousand years, stop calling them invasive. They live here now exactly.

Well, that's all for that one. I think we can take a quick break. Thank you, bat boy, by the way, and then we'll be back with more li'sten mail.

Well, that's all for that one. I think we can take a quick break. Thank you, bat boy, by the way, and then we'll be back with more li'sten mail.

All right, we've returned, and we are going to hear from ishmael Oh I will, and we will, yeah, we all will. Speaking of this is what I wanted to tell you, guys. I recently found a huge collection of cutouts that my grandfather sent me a long, long, long time ago, of comics in like Sunday papers, and in one of them, it's an image of a huge ship on the ocean and out on the starboard side there is this weird looking shape. It almost looks like in an infinity symbol, and it's breaching out of the water this symbol and it just says mobius dick ha.

All right, we've returned, and we are going to hear from ishmael Oh I will, and we will, yeah, we all will. Speaking of this is what I wanted to tell you, guys. I recently found a huge collection of cutouts that my grandfather sent me a long, long, long time ago, of comics in like Sunday papers, and in one of them, it's an image of a huge ship on the ocean and out on the starboard side there is this weird looking shape. It almost looks like in an infinity symbol, and it's breaching out of the water this symbol and it just says mobius dick ha.

Where that Gary? Oh? But Matt, real quick before we go on, because I loved Ishmael's letter to I can't remember. I think I may have mentioned it, but I heard one of the over on Instagram or social media somewhere. I heard one of the most compelling and gross explanations for old stories of sea serpents. Do you hear this whale penises?

Where that Gary? Oh? But Matt, real quick before we go on, because I loved Ishmael's letter to I can't remember. I think I may have mentioned it, but I heard one of the over on Instagram or social media somewhere. I heard one of the most compelling and gross explanations for old stories of sea serpents. Do you hear this whale penises?

Oh?

Oh?

Okay?

Okay?

Or was this is just something we talked about in Austin? I can't remember. So apparently you know, when when whale's mate, they know they're mammals, The way they group up is different from what you were picturing with humans. And as a result, there might be some whale whale wangs for lack of a better term, flinging out and breaching the surface, which could look a lot like tentacles.

Or was this is just something we talked about in Austin? I can't remember. So apparently you know, when when whale's mate, they know they're mammals, The way they group up is different from what you were picturing with humans. And as a result, there might be some whale whale wangs for lack of a better term, flinging out and breaching the surface, which could look a lot like tentacles.

Now I have a lot of questions. What position would require the penis to fly out from the water in that way? Well, okay, all right, but you know what, We're gonna leave those that day.

Now I have a lot of questions. What position would require the penis to fly out from the water in that way? Well, okay, all right, but you know what, We're gonna leave those that day.

We'll get we'll get to another one because we gotta we gotta get to Ishmael. Uh, it's we gotta we gotta get to Ishmael because Ishmael brings up something that I think has fascinated us for many years. Now.

We'll get we'll get to another one because we gotta we gotta get to Ishmael. Uh, it's we gotta we gotta get to Ishmael because Ishmael brings up something that I think has fascinated us for many years. Now.

Oh yeah, Ishmael's talking new technology that's gonna help save the planet and maybe even get us to the stars. You'll you'll understand why. Ishmael says there's a company in New Hampshire that's making a low buzz and it's either gonna change the world or blip out of existence amidst ruined investors in a page six story about arrests related to financial crimes, called Q Hydrogen, they claim to be able to produce hydrogen from water using a turbine in a cycle that's efficient enough to generate power from that hydrogen at a competitive price.

Oh yeah, Ishmael's talking new technology that's gonna help save the planet and maybe even get us to the stars. You'll you'll understand why. Ishmael says there's a company in New Hampshire that's making a low buzz and it's either gonna change the world or blip out of existence amidst ruined investors in a page six story about arrests related to financial crimes, called Q Hydrogen, they claim to be able to produce hydrogen from water using a turbine in a cycle that's efficient enough to generate power from that hydrogen at a competitive price.

That would be a huge.

That would be a huge.

Deal, Ishmael if they could do that. They also claim to have developed a liquid synthetic fuel that can be made from that hydrogen, which can be burned in a converted diesel engine and will be cost competitive with diesel. Sidebar here, guys. Ishmael says liquid fuels are much easier to ship and store than gaseous hydrogen, which is a notorious leaker due to its tiny molecule. Oh hydrogen, you notorious leaker, you, Ishmael continues. They rent lease a mill warehouse in one of those old mill towns where the mill left.

Deal, Ishmael if they could do that. They also claim to have developed a liquid synthetic fuel that can be made from that hydrogen, which can be burned in a converted diesel engine and will be cost competitive with diesel. Sidebar here, guys. Ishmael says liquid fuels are much easier to ship and store than gaseous hydrogen, which is a notorious leaker due to its tiny molecule. Oh hydrogen, you notorious leaker, you, Ishmael continues. They rent lease a mill warehouse in one of those old mill towns where the mill left.

For mills are a famous invasive species.

For mills are a famous invasive species.

They really are. I live in a milltown. Apparently, I didn't know that until I moved here for a few years. This is Ishmael again, starting just before COVID messed up everything. There's been news stories about how they're almost ready to start up and it's super exciting, but nothing solids come out yet.

They really are. I live in a milltown. Apparently, I didn't know that until I moved here for a few years. This is Ishmael again, starting just before COVID messed up everything. There's been news stories about how they're almost ready to start up and it's super exciting, but nothing solids come out yet.

Is that a joke about poop? All right?

Is that a joke about poop? All right?

Maybe not continuing. So they're either drumming up investment while preparing to flee the country, or they're about to disrupt the clean energy sector. I want to be clear, it's the latter, but the former seems much more likely. So go ahead and pop up some popcorn and watch the initial smoldering of this future dumpster fire.

Maybe not continuing. So they're either drumming up investment while preparing to flee the country, or they're about to disrupt the clean energy sector. I want to be clear, it's the latter, but the former seems much more likely. So go ahead and pop up some popcorn and watch the initial smoldering of this future dumpster fire.

Sound Ishmael.

Sound Ishmael.

Style on it, like the way you write Ishmael.

Style on it, like the way you write Ishmael.

Yeah, I love it, love it. We read every single email we get. We've got some fantastic stories, Matt when I'm alluding. What I'm alluding to in this letter is the the idea of water energy, non hydro electric, somehow associated water energy. I'm thinking of like Stanley Meyer, would be an example in the world of automotive conspiracies.

Yeah, I love it, love it. We read every single email we get. We've got some fantastic stories, Matt when I'm alluding. What I'm alluding to in this letter is the the idea of water energy, non hydro electric, somehow associated water energy. I'm thinking of like Stanley Meyer, would be an example in the world of automotive conspiracies.

No, you've done, guys.

No, you've done, guys.

Guy's think about it. Yeah, the planet is encouraging us to do this. As the CEA level rise, the planet is begging for us to suck up a whole bunch of that sea water and turn it into hydrogen so we can power our vehicles. I'm telling you, the planet's speaking to us.

Guy's think about it. Yeah, the planet is encouraging us to do this. As the CEA level rise, the planet is begging for us to suck up a whole bunch of that sea water and turn it into hydrogen so we can power our vehicles. I'm telling you, the planet's speaking to us.

Yeah, the planet's also we're talking in several cases of this kind of water energy allegation genre. We're talking about totable water being consumed. And I think a few years back when we were recording an episode on some of this stuff. We asked the question about whether or not human civilization could handle drinkable water becoming a power source. It feels like, yeah, that feels like another future dumpster fire. Yeah, well I don't here they're ready.

Yeah, the planet's also we're talking in several cases of this kind of water energy allegation genre. We're talking about totable water being consumed. And I think a few years back when we were recording an episode on some of this stuff. We asked the question about whether or not human civilization could handle drinkable water becoming a power source. It feels like, yeah, that feels like another future dumpster fire. Yeah, well I don't here they're ready.

No, we're not ready. And the problem is we've got the technology to get that salt out of that water as much as we want to, as long as we want to, a huge, huge amounts, but it costs too much money for the streal water complex.

No, we're not ready. And the problem is we've got the technology to get that salt out of that water as much as we want to, as long as we want to, a huge, huge amounts, but it costs too much money for the streal water complex.

Yeah, Nestlee needs the sheet to balance a little bit better.

Yeah, Nestlee needs the sheet to balance a little bit better.

But if it was, but think about it, if it was some kind of necessity. If humanity can throw eight hundred and fifty billion dollars at one country's military, it can probably figure out how to desalinate enough water.

But if it was, but think about it, if it was some kind of necessity. If humanity can throw eight hundred and fifty billion dollars at one country's military, it can probably figure out how to desalinate enough water.

Just saying well, you know, we've got the religion of economy and we have to follow those precepts right as a civilization. And really not to sound you know, snarky or dismissive, but this this idea of making things cost effective at a competitive price, it's huge. It's mission critical for economy of scale. Like when beyond beef for beyond burgers or whatever was coming out. One of the biggest questions they had to answer was how to make it at least within a few cents or dollar at most as the price of regular animal products beef. And then it reminds me of a lab grown meat, which is still doing a thing. Oh the UN, by the way, invasive species and weird food. The UN also reiterated that people should eat more bugs. So that creepy kid in your preschool was right.

Just saying well, you know, we've got the religion of economy and we have to follow those precepts right as a civilization. And really not to sound you know, snarky or dismissive, but this this idea of making things cost effective at a competitive price, it's huge. It's mission critical for economy of scale. Like when beyond beef for beyond burgers or whatever was coming out. One of the biggest questions they had to answer was how to make it at least within a few cents or dollar at most as the price of regular animal products beef. And then it reminds me of a lab grown meat, which is still doing a thing. Oh the UN, by the way, invasive species and weird food. The UN also reiterated that people should eat more bugs. So that creepy kid in your preschool was right.

I want some more of that that willie mammoth meat. Where we get that? When does that hit the shelves?

I want some more of that that willie mammoth meat. Where we get that? When does that hit the shelves?

No, buddy, it's only going to be lantern fly chips for you.

No, buddy, it's only going to be lantern fly chips for you.

Sorry. Actually, I went to a restaurant I think you guys are like in New York recently called the Black Ant, and it's like a really cool kind of Mexican place, and they have insects are a big part of their menu, and they do like lots of crickets, and the titular Black Ants sometimes are on the rim of like certain spicy margaritas and stuff. But like, yeah, I love crickets. I think it's a really crunchy, delightful source of protein. And we may all be, you know, having to find our way to enjoying them one day sooner. Than we might think.

Sorry. Actually, I went to a restaurant I think you guys are like in New York recently called the Black Ant, and it's like a really cool kind of Mexican place, and they have insects are a big part of their menu, and they do like lots of crickets, and the titular Black Ants sometimes are on the rim of like certain spicy margaritas and stuff. But like, yeah, I love crickets. I think it's a really crunchy, delightful source of protein. And we may all be, you know, having to find our way to enjoying them one day sooner. Than we might think.

Bro fry anything, you know what I mean. I'll give it a go, but with this idea. Okay, so Matt, you did some digging into this and you are kind of a subject matter expert. On the ongoing allegation, well, we've read a lot about it. On the ongoing allegations about water as a non hydropower energy source, meaning water not just running and turning a turbine. These guys are making some pretty astonishing claims. If they're true, this could be a game changer.

Bro fry anything, you know what I mean. I'll give it a go, but with this idea. Okay, so Matt, you did some digging into this and you are kind of a subject matter expert. On the ongoing allegation, well, we've read a lot about it. On the ongoing allegations about water as a non hydropower energy source, meaning water not just running and turning a turbine. These guys are making some pretty astonishing claims. If they're true, this could be a game changer.

Yeah, I agree, well, at least according to them. So sure, I say we all head over to Q Hydrogen's website, which is really simple. You can do this and play along with us. You ready, if you're not driving, let's play along. Head over to the letter Q and then hydrogen spelled out hydrogn dot com. Now when you get to the website, guys, let me know when you're there, because you will see an amazing I don't know, animation I guess of the Q making the hydrogen.

Yeah, I agree, well, at least according to them. So sure, I say we all head over to Q Hydrogen's website, which is really simple. You can do this and play along with us. You ready, if you're not driving, let's play along. Head over to the letter Q and then hydrogen spelled out hydrogn dot com. Now when you get to the website, guys, let me know when you're there, because you will see an amazing I don't know, animation I guess of the Q making the hydrogen.

I guess, yeah, the QA so also looks like a scope in a firearm, a little bit, a.

I guess, yeah, the QA so also looks like a scope in a firearm, a little bit, a.

Little bit like the zodiac. Simo, guys, Oh, that's Okay, that's fine, that's fine, that's fine. Everything's cool. So if you look at this thing, you will read this. Q Hydrogen is a leading developer of sustainable, actionable hydrogen energy technologies. Our proprietary science allows for the production of clear hydrogen. This means we use less space, less energy in our lower cost compared to natural gas, fossil fuel, and existing hydrogen production methods. Our ambition is to make hydrogen energy affordable, accessible and simple for all industries to use.

Little bit like the zodiac. Simo, guys, Oh, that's Okay, that's fine, that's fine, that's fine. Everything's cool. So if you look at this thing, you will read this. Q Hydrogen is a leading developer of sustainable, actionable hydrogen energy technologies. Our proprietary science allows for the production of clear hydrogen. This means we use less space, less energy in our lower cost compared to natural gas, fossil fuel, and existing hydrogen production methods. Our ambition is to make hydrogen energy affordable, accessible and simple for all industries to use.

That sounds nice. Let's do that.

That sounds nice. Let's do that.

It sounds amazing, right, yeah, let's I think, Okay, let's do it. What do you need to do this? Probably a lot of investors, right the startup money, I would assume. Wait, hold on, it says no large infrastructure needed down here. Even I wonder how or why we produce hydrogen using water, No natural gas or electrolysis is involved. I've never heard of that. I thought you had to send electricity through the water with a great amount of electricity to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen that you know, the H two ozero.

It sounds amazing, right, yeah, let's I think, Okay, let's do it. What do you need to do this? Probably a lot of investors, right the startup money, I would assume. Wait, hold on, it says no large infrastructure needed down here. Even I wonder how or why we produce hydrogen using water, No natural gas or electrolysis is involved. I've never heard of that. I thought you had to send electricity through the water with a great amount of electricity to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen that you know, the H two ozero.

And they're saying they can do this at ambient temperature as well. They also say they've got a test facility in Park City, Utah that's been open for several years.

And they're saying they can do this at ambient temperature as well. They also say they've got a test facility in Park City, Utah that's been open for several years.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes, my understanding of the company is there that they've existed out in Utah for quite a while. That's where a lot of the family lived, like the creators of this thing, and then they bought this mill, this former paper mill out in New Hampshire to actually start running the thing.

Yes, my understanding of the company is there that they've existed out in Utah for quite a while. That's where a lot of the family lived, like the creators of this thing, and then they bought this mill, this former paper mill out in New Hampshire to actually start running the thing.

I guess. Wow.

I guess. Wow.

I mean it all on the website. It all sounds great, it all sounds amazing, but it sounds like startup talk to me. You guys, We've encountered startup talk a whole lot, especially when it comes to science, like some new breakthrough science. We are seeing the ramifications of that right now. I believe the creator of Theirnose is now actually headed to prison. Elizabeth Holmes. Yeah, I mean the kind of thing that's too good to be true. I would say this feels like that to me on the surface, But maybe I'm wrong. I I hope I'm wrong, guys, but I'm not sure. Can we jump to the team really quick on that website?

I mean it all on the website. It all sounds great, it all sounds amazing, but it sounds like startup talk to me. You guys, We've encountered startup talk a whole lot, especially when it comes to science, like some new breakthrough science. We are seeing the ramifications of that right now. I believe the creator of Theirnose is now actually headed to prison. Elizabeth Holmes. Yeah, I mean the kind of thing that's too good to be true. I would say this feels like that to me on the surface, But maybe I'm wrong. I I hope I'm wrong, guys, but I'm not sure. Can we jump to the team really quick on that website?

Yes, but before we do, we should point out, Matt, you made certain you really emphasized that any of us who hadn't looked at pictures of the team yet needed to hold for when we were on air, and yeah, looked earlier, but I don't remember the faces.

Yes, but before we do, we should point out, Matt, you made certain you really emphasized that any of us who hadn't looked at pictures of the team yet needed to hold for when we were on air, and yeah, looked earlier, but I don't remember the faces.

Okay, well, let's do it together. You're ready. If you're on Q Hydrogen's website, go ahead and head over to the team tab. Click on that, and you'll see a picture at the top there of Whittaker b Irvin Junior, who's the CEO of this company. He Whittaker has spoken a whole bunch online about the company, about the tech. You can find interviews with him all over the place. You can also see a lot of official pr so press releases that have gone out from the company. There at least a few prominent ones that you'll find. There are a whole bunch of folks working on this company who are a part of it, who are either on the leadership team according to their website, key advisors or advisors. But I want you guys to focus your attention on Whittaker, the CEO's father, Whittaker Irvin Senior. Do you see him, Whittaker b Irvin Senior.

Okay, well, let's do it together. You're ready. If you're on Q Hydrogen's website, go ahead and head over to the team tab. Click on that, and you'll see a picture at the top there of Whittaker b Irvin Junior, who's the CEO of this company. He Whittaker has spoken a whole bunch online about the company, about the tech. You can find interviews with him all over the place. You can also see a lot of official pr so press releases that have gone out from the company. There at least a few prominent ones that you'll find. There are a whole bunch of folks working on this company who are a part of it, who are either on the leadership team according to their website, key advisors or advisors. But I want you guys to focus your attention on Whittaker, the CEO's father, Whittaker Irvin Senior. Do you see him, Whittaker b Irvin Senior.

Oh yeah, no, yeah, I'm in.

Oh yeah, no, yeah, I'm in.

This is my guy right here. If this guy's got, if this guy's got, this is my guy, Ben. If this guy is the chief technology officer of any company I am.

This is my guy right here. If this guy's got, if this guy's got, this is my guy, Ben. If this guy is the chief technology officer of any company I am.

In, can you describe it to the to the class, to the to the listeners at home.

In, can you describe it to the to the class, to the to the listeners at home.

No, I don't want to describe it. I think if you are listening to this, it is your responsibility to head on over to Q hydrogen dot com, click on the team tab and look at this picture.

No, I don't want to describe it. I think if you are listening to this, it is your responsibility to head on over to Q hydrogen dot com, click on the team tab and look at this picture.

How about we do this as a tease, gentlemen, Uh, Whittaker, b Irvin Sr. Is exactly what you're picturing. Whatever you're picturing, just tell yourself that. I think that's a way to kind of incentivize all of us to check it out. I will say you, guys know, I am not a fan. I'm not a physically shaming people know I'm not.

How about we do this as a tease, gentlemen, Uh, Whittaker, b Irvin Sr. Is exactly what you're picturing. Whatever you're picturing, just tell yourself that. I think that's a way to kind of incentivize all of us to check it out. I will say you, guys know, I am not a fan. I'm not a physically shaming people know I'm not.

I promise you I'm not shaming.

I promise you I'm not shaming.

I don't know what it is. He looks like he means business.

I don't know what it is. He looks like he means business.

In my mind, he is epic. If you want, if you say Waker at a bar, like if I did, I'm talking to Whittaker.

In my mind, he is epic. If you want, if you say Waker at a bar, like if I did, I'm talking to Whittaker.

On a T shirt. I feel like he also could be in a boardroom and then get in wrestling match.

On a T shirt. I feel like he also could be in a boardroom and then get in wrestling match.

Yeah, Irvin Junior eight, it's so bad either. He's got like a bit more of a buttoned up kind of look. But Senior, man, remember that guy we met at the bar in uh in Venice Beach, what's his name? That guy's that amazing fellow with the long white hair who was just wearing like the most incredible leisure suit of Alto. This guy under his suit could be wearing that very leisure suit for sure.

Yeah, Irvin Junior eight, it's so bad either. He's got like a bit more of a buttoned up kind of look. But Senior, man, remember that guy we met at the bar in uh in Venice Beach, what's his name? That guy's that amazing fellow with the long white hair who was just wearing like the most incredible leisure suit of Alto. This guy under his suit could be wearing that very leisure suit for sure.

I I Whittaker, if you're listening, either of you, guys, I am not casting aspersions. I don't think anyone would be just saying you're awesome. If Whittaker be Irvin the junior, the younger one who is running the show, if if he's the face of the company, and then his dad is the technology guy, come on, this has to be legit and awesome.

I I Whittaker, if you're listening, either of you, guys, I am not casting aspersions. I don't think anyone would be just saying you're awesome. If Whittaker be Irvin the junior, the younger one who is running the show, if if he's the face of the company, and then his dad is the technology guy, come on, this has to be legit and awesome.

Think I imagine, Uh, mister Irvan Senior would also want us to mention that he has multiple patent and patent applications, right, Yes, he does. He's got he's got a he's got good what I would call inventor rap sheet. Yeah man, and yeah, so he's doing the work not for nothing? Is he the CTO?

Think I imagine, Uh, mister Irvan Senior would also want us to mention that he has multiple patent and patent applications, right, Yes, he does. He's got he's got a he's got good what I would call inventor rap sheet. Yeah man, and yeah, so he's doing the work not for nothing? Is he the CTO?

That's right?

That's right?

Ah?

Ah?

Guys, all right, so keep your ears and eyes out for news about Q hydrogen. I guess we just need to say this. We are not in any way sponsor or affiliated with that company. We are just interested parties because if you can actually change the world with technology like this, we're on your side.

Guys, all right, so keep your ears and eyes out for news about Q hydrogen. I guess we just need to say this. We are not in any way sponsor or affiliated with that company. We are just interested parties because if you can actually change the world with technology like this, we're on your side.

And we want to hear from you, folks, especially if you have inventions of your own. I just have to throw that in there.

And we want to hear from you, folks, especially if you have inventions of your own. I just have to throw that in there.

Absolutely yeah, So thank you Ishmael, thank you Irvins. We will be right back with one more piece of listener mail.

Absolutely yeah, So thank you Ishmael, thank you Irvins. We will be right back with one more piece of listener mail.

And we have returned with a very special thank you to a pal of mine on the social meds, a person named Rebel Devil who came over on Instagram and always always hips me to some really cool stuff. Especially I know we're especially onto something when multiple conspiracy realists starts sending in the same thing. This is a story about a small island off the coast of Italy, off the northern coast of Sicily. Excuse me, and a weird bunch of bakery hyjiinks they got into for many, many years. Here's the thing. We'll introduce this the way that the way that Andrea Straphile introduces it writing for Vice Italy. French writer Alexander Dumas traveling in the area in eighteen thirty five, said it is harder to find a sadur, more remote and more disbalant, desolate place than this unfortunate island. It's a quarner of the earth, forgotten by creation and stuck in the era of chaos. Even now, there are no cars on the island. It's pretty rural. There aren't a lot of people living there. Most of the folks are going to work in the fishing or shepherding industry. And between nineteen oh three and nineteen oh five, these people this island Alakudi, started having visions. The town started tripping, or the community started tripping. They would say, I saw witches holding a feast on that remote beach outside of town. I saw these sacks of things talking. I saw this lady grow wings, and she flew off to Sicily to go shopping. There are lots of clowns falling out of the sky. For a while, people weren't sure what was happening, until later they realize it goes back to the bakeries. The bread and the biscuits contained rye that had been infected by our old friend Claviceps purpuria, otherwise known as ergot fun stuff.

And we have returned with a very special thank you to a pal of mine on the social meds, a person named Rebel Devil who came over on Instagram and always always hips me to some really cool stuff. Especially I know we're especially onto something when multiple conspiracy realists starts sending in the same thing. This is a story about a small island off the coast of Italy, off the northern coast of Sicily. Excuse me, and a weird bunch of bakery hyjiinks they got into for many, many years. Here's the thing. We'll introduce this the way that the way that Andrea Straphile introduces it writing for Vice Italy. French writer Alexander Dumas traveling in the area in eighteen thirty five, said it is harder to find a sadur, more remote and more disbalant, desolate place than this unfortunate island. It's a quarner of the earth, forgotten by creation and stuck in the era of chaos. Even now, there are no cars on the island. It's pretty rural. There aren't a lot of people living there. Most of the folks are going to work in the fishing or shepherding industry. And between nineteen oh three and nineteen oh five, these people this island Alakudi, started having visions. The town started tripping, or the community started tripping. They would say, I saw witches holding a feast on that remote beach outside of town. I saw these sacks of things talking. I saw this lady grow wings, and she flew off to Sicily to go shopping. There are lots of clowns falling out of the sky. For a while, people weren't sure what was happening, until later they realize it goes back to the bakeries. The bread and the biscuits contained rye that had been infected by our old friend Claviceps purpuria, otherwise known as ergot fun stuff.

Yeah, one of the debunked. Obviously, we've always mentioned this debunked factors that could have led to the Salem, which kind of panics.

Yeah, one of the debunked. Obviously, we've always mentioned this debunked factors that could have led to the Salem, which kind of panics.

Yeah, just so, and ergot if you were called fellow conspiracy realists. It produces an alkaloid called lysurgic acid street name LSD or it's one of the basic, you know, building blocks. And so the story goes that the population of this island, you know, nobody was super fancy and opulent. Nobody is very very rich, so they wanted to save what they could. We've all been in those situations where you say, Okay, this cheese might be a little bit questionable, but let me cut off this part and see about the rest of it, because cheese is already sort of a gross enterprise when you think about it. I say that as a huge fan of cheese. If you're listening, Big Cheese turned the entire episode on the cheese spiracy, which is real and amazing anyway, So they want to throw away food. They would see this infected rye. The issue is when this rye is infected, it's visibly infected. It's it's darker as a black color, and it's called ashes or tisaneta in the local dialect, and they didn't throw it away. They put it in the mill. They ground it up, and they made flour. And then that flower might go in storage, it might get recycled. A lot of this goes a lot of the credit goes to an anthropologist named Paolo Lorenzi, who figured this out in his master's thesis. He says, look, we have traced out what happened. He started nailing down where the infection could have occurred. How could this how could this substance, this organism have invaded the local community. The crazy thing is when we think about ergot poisoning, you know, like you were saying, no, we think about the days of Salem and the witch trials, or we think about, you know, the Middle Eight in Europe or the so called Dark Ages in Europe. This stuff was still in play into the nineteen fifties. So much so, yeah, so much so. There was a There were documentaries about it where you see locals just kind of shrugging and saying, you know, if you'd been here thirty years ago, you would have realized reality works quite differently on the island, no question, Because they were always at an EDM concert without the music ah, I have to say it's it's strange because it launches a thought experiment, right, Like a lot of psychonauts former or practicing now in the audience may say that, you know, there's a downtime between consuming hallucinogens. Right, you're not unless you're like what Sid Barrett or something, You're not on acid for the rest of your life all the time. Apparently, one of the local beliefs is that when the residents would take this stuff, they weren't planning to trip, right, they were just eating bread. It was just time to eat something. And because they weren't expecting a hallucinogenic experience, you know, it's all seen and setting right, they because they weren't expecting it, it hit them with a double wallop. And this was kind of a trial by fire, and they developed skills that stayed with them. Like it was normalized and it was known, and it didn't really stop until the fifties because people started visiting the island as tourists, especially hippies. Hippies started visiting the island where people were having these amazing experiences.

Yeah, just so, and ergot if you were called fellow conspiracy realists. It produces an alkaloid called lysurgic acid street name LSD or it's one of the basic, you know, building blocks. And so the story goes that the population of this island, you know, nobody was super fancy and opulent. Nobody is very very rich, so they wanted to save what they could. We've all been in those situations where you say, Okay, this cheese might be a little bit questionable, but let me cut off this part and see about the rest of it, because cheese is already sort of a gross enterprise when you think about it. I say that as a huge fan of cheese. If you're listening, Big Cheese turned the entire episode on the cheese spiracy, which is real and amazing anyway, So they want to throw away food. They would see this infected rye. The issue is when this rye is infected, it's visibly infected. It's it's darker as a black color, and it's called ashes or tisaneta in the local dialect, and they didn't throw it away. They put it in the mill. They ground it up, and they made flour. And then that flower might go in storage, it might get recycled. A lot of this goes a lot of the credit goes to an anthropologist named Paolo Lorenzi, who figured this out in his master's thesis. He says, look, we have traced out what happened. He started nailing down where the infection could have occurred. How could this how could this substance, this organism have invaded the local community. The crazy thing is when we think about ergot poisoning, you know, like you were saying, no, we think about the days of Salem and the witch trials, or we think about, you know, the Middle Eight in Europe or the so called Dark Ages in Europe. This stuff was still in play into the nineteen fifties. So much so, yeah, so much so. There was a There were documentaries about it where you see locals just kind of shrugging and saying, you know, if you'd been here thirty years ago, you would have realized reality works quite differently on the island, no question, Because they were always at an EDM concert without the music ah, I have to say it's it's strange because it launches a thought experiment, right, Like a lot of psychonauts former or practicing now in the audience may say that, you know, there's a downtime between consuming hallucinogens. Right, you're not unless you're like what Sid Barrett or something, You're not on acid for the rest of your life all the time. Apparently, one of the local beliefs is that when the residents would take this stuff, they weren't planning to trip, right, they were just eating bread. It was just time to eat something. And because they weren't expecting a hallucinogenic experience, you know, it's all seen and setting right, they because they weren't expecting it, it hit them with a double wallop. And this was kind of a trial by fire, and they developed skills that stayed with them. Like it was normalized and it was known, and it didn't really stop until the fifties because people started visiting the island as tourists, especially hippies. Hippies started visiting the island where people were having these amazing experiences.

How did they get themselves some of that bread?

How did they get themselves some of that bread?

I'm pretty sure they did. I'm pretty sure they were. You know, It's like when someone in college says, oh, I'm gonna go visit Amsterdam for a few days on spring break. I'm sure you're there for the canals, right, but I'm sure you are. So I'm pretty sure that people were traveling there specifically to try and experience this, or they had heard rumors and the way the story goes, again leaning heavy on vice, it only here the way the story goes. This persisted until eventually, quite recently, the local church on the island said, this is the devil's bread. We've got to stop.

I'm pretty sure they did. I'm pretty sure they were. You know, It's like when someone in college says, oh, I'm gonna go visit Amsterdam for a few days on spring break. I'm sure you're there for the canals, right, but I'm sure you are. So I'm pretty sure that people were traveling there specifically to try and experience this, or they had heard rumors and the way the story goes, again leaning heavy on vice, it only here the way the story goes. This persisted until eventually, quite recently, the local church on the island said, this is the devil's bread. We've got to stop.

Not the daily bread, the devil's bread. The devil's bread is not the same as like the Devil's the devils lettuce, that's the one.

Not the daily bread, the devil's bread. The devil's bread is not the same as like the Devil's the devils lettuce, that's the one.

I don't know. You know. It's weird because anytime, at least in English, anytime you add the devils as a possessive to something, people are more interested like.

I don't know. You know. It's weird because anytime, at least in English, anytime you add the devils as a possessive to something, people are more interested like.

Don't want I want some of that? Yeah, which still is the devil's nectar. Isn't that like like like the booze the model?

Don't want I want some of that? Yeah, which still is the devil's nectar. Isn't that like like like the booze the model?

Right. Yeah, for anybody's thinking of starting your own show, we will just give you the Devil's podcast. It's a free idea. If that hasn't been taken yet, someone's going to do it. I bet someone's done it, right. The name's just right there. I reckon so well, apparently this disappeared completely in the nineteen sixties, and you know, we're I'm having some fun with us, but I do have to admit we should be really cognizant of the fact that safety is key here. Whenever you are consuming something, whether that's for a spiritual epiphany or journey, or whether that's purely recreational, have safety measures in place. Right. There's a reason that ayahuasca is taken in a controlled setting, right, administered by a spiritual expert. And if you are like imagine you're on the road with us, your pals a stuff. They don't want you to know. We're doing some live shows and I don't know, pick a weird place.

Right. Yeah, for anybody's thinking of starting your own show, we will just give you the Devil's podcast. It's a free idea. If that hasn't been taken yet, someone's going to do it. I bet someone's done it, right. The name's just right there. I reckon so well, apparently this disappeared completely in the nineteen sixties, and you know, we're I'm having some fun with us, but I do have to admit we should be really cognizant of the fact that safety is key here. Whenever you are consuming something, whether that's for a spiritual epiphany or journey, or whether that's purely recreational, have safety measures in place. Right. There's a reason that ayahuasca is taken in a controlled setting, right, administered by a spiritual expert. And if you are like imagine you're on the road with us, your pals a stuff. They don't want you to know. We're doing some live shows and I don't know, pick a weird place.

We know we said that at the same time that was not planned.

We know we said that at the same time that was not planned.

We're manifesting it. So we're on the mini streets of.

We're manifesting it. So we're on the mini streets of.

Poughkeepsie away sorry coffee bro. So we're at Poughkeepsie and we go to this bakery and we just say, hey, okay, we're just gonna get you know, some sandwiches because we don't have a lot of time.

Poughkeepsie away sorry coffee bro. So we're at Poughkeepsie and we go to this bakery and we just say, hey, okay, we're just gonna get you know, some sandwiches because we don't have a lot of time.

To eat, and you're hanging out with us eating and then it doesn't. The thing is that stuff doesn't kick in immediately. We're done with the sandwiches, we're walking. We don't know if we're doing the show yet or if the show has just sort of started. And if you have ever been in that situation where the hallucinogens kick in, you know, it can be one of the most amazing, delightful, revelatory experiences, or it could be absolutely terrified. And I pause it that if you are unsuspectingly consuming something, it's terrifying when it hits you. So it's very good that the locals here on this island have been able to figure out the cause of this over an Alakudy and have been able to phase it out. But it also I think it was surprising to me and probably rebels surprising you as well that this persisted so recently, Right like ergot poisoning, which is essentially what this is, could happen so close to the modern day because when it finally disappears for now And dude, that's the thing though, I love weird food, so.

To eat, and you're hanging out with us eating and then it doesn't. The thing is that stuff doesn't kick in immediately. We're done with the sandwiches, we're walking. We don't know if we're doing the show yet or if the show has just sort of started. And if you have ever been in that situation where the hallucinogens kick in, you know, it can be one of the most amazing, delightful, revelatory experiences, or it could be absolutely terrified. And I pause it that if you are unsuspectingly consuming something, it's terrifying when it hits you. So it's very good that the locals here on this island have been able to figure out the cause of this over an Alakudy and have been able to phase it out. But it also I think it was surprising to me and probably rebels surprising you as well that this persisted so recently, Right like ergot poisoning, which is essentially what this is, could happen so close to the modern day because when it finally disappears for now And dude, that's the thing though, I love weird food, so.

That wasn't that part of the debunking of the Salem stuff, that the occurrence of it didn't match up with the timeline of the trials.

That wasn't that part of the debunking of the Salem stuff, that the occurrence of it didn't match up with the timeline of the trials.

I believe, Yeah, that's part of it. Yeah, I believe you're correct. Guys know, I love weird food. I think we all do what might be called adventurous eaters. Maybe I'm a little further along the spectrum than some. That's fine, no judgment, AKA, don't judge me. But this would be on my list of foods to try. You know, if we are well, bread.

I believe, Yeah, that's part of it. Yeah, I believe you're correct. Guys know, I love weird food. I think we all do what might be called adventurous eaters. Maybe I'm a little further along the spectrum than some. That's fine, no judgment, AKA, don't judge me. But this would be on my list of foods to try. You know, if we are well, bread.

Laced with the devil's bread, the devil's bread, I will doesn't it.

Laced with the devil's bread, the devil's bread, I will doesn't it.

Form on corn too? Can't she eat like corn that's got like the fungus on it? I want to say, like, Okay, that's the one that does that one make you trip to? Or is that one just tasty?

Form on corn too? Can't she eat like corn that's got like the fungus on it? I want to say, like, Okay, that's the one that does that one make you trip to? Or is that one just tasty?

No, it's just infected corn kernels and it's pretty it's pretty good. Also, uh, some people are turned off by the origin of this particular thing.

No, it's just infected corn kernels and it's pretty it's pretty good. Also, uh, some people are turned off by the origin of this particular thing.

They don't want to infected the word infected in their food.

They don't want to infected the word infected in their food.

I mean, look, for most people, if you knew the origin of some of the stuff you're eating, it would it would turn you off, right, It's something people don't think about check out our episodes on big Business Agriculture. I would shout out to the people, and it's whose first recommendations were. Like one of our friends, a guy I lovingly referred to as the mayor of Ponce. Uh, one of his first comments was to recommend like how to make good tacos out of this out of the super pigs. So that's why me and that guy kick at shout out Luiz. But uh, there's another thing I want to I hope I can convince us to try. As we wrap up this listener mail, I would love to hear from anybody who is consumed Kazu Marzu. It's one of the top things on my list. If you guys ever tried this, I'm sure I have one of those.

I mean, look, for most people, if you knew the origin of some of the stuff you're eating, it would it would turn you off, right, It's something people don't think about check out our episodes on big Business Agriculture. I would shout out to the people, and it's whose first recommendations were. Like one of our friends, a guy I lovingly referred to as the mayor of Ponce. Uh, one of his first comments was to recommend like how to make good tacos out of this out of the super pigs. So that's why me and that guy kick at shout out Luiz. But uh, there's another thing I want to I hope I can convince us to try. As we wrap up this listener mail, I would love to hear from anybody who is consumed Kazu Marzu. It's one of the top things on my list. If you guys ever tried this, I'm sure I have one of those.

Fish that will kill you if you get the wrong piece.

Fish that will kill you if you get the wrong piece.

Not quite but but yeah, let's put fugu on the list too, because you got to go to Japan. Doc said, she wants.

Not quite but but yeah, let's put fugu on the list too, because you got to go to Japan. Doc said, she wants.

You want to you want to get numbed out, but not like killed where you sit. Yeah, right, that's the no.

You want to you want to get numbed out, but not like killed where you sit. Yeah, right, that's the no.

No no no, no, no no no. I think I know what this is, Ben.

No no no, no, no no no. I think I know what this is, Ben.

You might because I haven't shut up about it for like a decade.

You might because I haven't shut up about it for like a decade.

I don't think.

I don't think.

I know, Matt knows. That's the only way to be making that face. All right, Noel, there is a cheese. It is only made in Sardinia, although there's a version of it that exists in France. It is illegal even in the places where it's made. You got to be like under in the underground cheese community. You gotta have some pool and some juice. T eat Kazu Marzu. It is a sheep milk cheese that is most famous.

I know, Matt knows. That's the only way to be making that face. All right, Noel, there is a cheese. It is only made in Sardinia, although there's a version of it that exists in France. It is illegal even in the places where it's made. You got to be like under in the underground cheese community. You gotta have some pool and some juice. T eat Kazu Marzu. It is a sheep milk cheese that is most famous.

Got maggots, doesn't.

Got maggots, doesn't.

That because of the maggots. Yeah, and they're active, they're jumping, you know, coming.

That because of the maggots. Yeah, and they're active, they're jumping, you know, coming.

You feel them regular around in there. Huh. That's part of the the appeal. That's a bridge too far from me, my good sir, and I to them and what I'd like to consider an adventurous eater. But you can have all the maggot cheese you want, all right, Well, I have some.