From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of My Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called me Ben. We are joined as always with our super producer Alexis code name Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Returning from some ghost projects just like James Gordon Meek shout out to you, James, Uh, Ben, are we gonna do? We get to figure out what the secret project was? Now? We all will get to figure it out at some point. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, A black bagged well well well well, uh this is cool. The listener Mail weekly segments one of our favorite things. We always make, uh see keep the fog Horn and duck. We always make new episodes and we always want to take time. You know, Matt Noll are very very busy people in charge of a million things that you may or may not be aware of, fellow conspiracy realists, but we all take the time to hang out with our favorite part of the show, the best part, which is you. In this week's listener mail segment, we're gonna talk a little bit about We're gonna talk a little bit about when the Feds come rolling up on you and you've done nothing wrong. Now weird that could get We're gonna talk a little bit about some firsthand experiences with pre crime in the real world, and uh, what better way to kick it off though, then talking about one of our favorite hobby horses, space junk, you know, Matt, we've talked about in the past. Of course, if extraterrestrials happened by, uh, this planet, they would think it looks a little bit trashy. You know. It's like the bad house in the neighborhood with all the rusted out cars and appliances and crap on cinder blocks just in orbit. So like, why can't why can't humans just clean it up? Well, this is why we can't have nice things. Um. This email comes to us from regular contributor The Baron near Eaton Upon, Lancashire, with a small little garden that grows periwinkle. Baron Eaton is fine as always. Thank you again for the Silurian hypothesis. Episode filled with many tendril horrors that poked did my squishy human wet wear and made me believe that Looper was indeed a documentary instead of a fictional movie. More and another email, I am sure, since this one rambles a bit. I always thought the trope of star Metal was not about meteors falling from the heavens, but of ancient civilization space debris after their orbit decayed too much. Well, and there's a link here for two TV tropes article on TV Tropes about fantasy metals And I don't know if I'm aware of this trope, but more on that later. I'll look into it later on my own time. While metals Baron goes on from meteors have been forged into blades before, there is still not enough to get a good weapon out of it, more than say a pair of knives, daggers or a short and long sword. Uh. The most famous blades took twenty two point seven kg of meteorite uh fifty pounds in freedom scale weight, which is symbolic as all get out, but not an economical business model. However, we see a large amount of workable debris from space junk surviving a crash and would be workable in a forge with time and effort. Of course, it also could be a stronger material than the natural nickel iron found in most common meteors. If the quote unquote blade uh is already made of appliable titanium and merely needs a hilt and some general work to make it fit, then you just create a mystical backstory on how it was forged in the fires of wood taken from mystical elderly beavers found in the purest stream. I love this guy. Who is to say that the Excalibur wasn't just the shorn off pieces of solar sale floating in a lake created by the Excalibur satellite. What if the Lady of the lake was indeed just a distress hologram meant to attract the attention of corporal salvagers who needed the data for their latest black budget project. While it could be a stretch due to systems decay and malfunctioning, it could still be plausible. That is how I like my ancient history. Plausible accurate, Oh, Heaven's no, merely plausible. This also could be by wielders of these ancient space junk weapons die off so fast. Instead of it being the allegory of a deity's justice and piety burning through the human body and shortening it, it very well could be the radiation from the power source that leached into the metal, shorting their lives instead. Um. I mean, you never hear the blacksmiths who forge these mythological blades living a long life either after they do so, do you now? If only we can get metals from Venus so we can finally make some dolphinium blades. Oh what the Dolphin illuminati would have given for such power and destruction. Thanks for all you do. I have a page worth of hastily scribbled notes ready to use to honor Larry, the eldritch horror and part time tentacled space author trigger on that Larry or honors. This is great. This is great. I'm glad you picked this one. Yeah. I mean, I don't even know where to start. Guys. This is really just kind of a a fun ball for us to sort of pass around like overly exuberant dogs conspiracy dogs. Um, this is just great. It's I mean it really, you know, obviously, there's a lot of tongue firmly planted in cheek here in in the baron's message. But I mean I do like the idea of space junk being a clue, you know, the referenced the Silurian hypothesis of space junk being a clue to like something greater, you know. And and then the question always comes up when it comes to you know, you U A, P S and UFOs or whatever. Um, why don't we have debris floating in space that is of unidentified origin? And obviously we can't go far enough into space, deep deep, deep, deep deep deep space to even see what might be out there. So to your point, Ben, yeah, we might be the trashyest planted on the block, but who knows what what lies within those eldritch depths out there in the ink. Yeah, that's that's a phrase I overuse in sci fi stories. But the the idea of metal falling from the sky, from from the gods is a very ancient idea, and there's some there are some real life examples of it, you know, some more controversial than others, like the tomb of King tut has An I or had an iron dagger, a bracelet, and a headrest that we're confirmed to be iron from a meteor and the other part I think we're getting out here, Baron, is the idea that this sort of stuff from a material science perspective could have been much more effective, right, maybe you know, like Valerian Steel in the Song of Ice and Fire, or maybe like oh gosh, I'm just thinking adamantium for the fellow comic book fans. Uh. This stuff has sometimes been called sky iron, honestly, that's true, or star iron. But if you know people who are really involved in the meteor meteorite collection community or industry, uh, then it seems it seems difficult to imagine that there would be a secret stash that people are not aware of. But again, you know, human beings. Again, no ding on human beings, number one, primate, that's nothing. This needs a human beings have worshiped weird stuff coming from the sky since before the dawn of the written word. Thinking particularly about all the theories surrounding the black Stone set in the eastern corner of the Kabba, you know in Um in Saudi Arabia. It is why we thought to be an ancient uh, an ancient meteor, an ancient meteor, right, Rather, the difference between a meteor and a meteor right, being that a meteor right is something that makes it to the ground were more like more like by dinosaurs. It's also interesting too we think of the idea of star stuff or like you know, the Big Bang, or like what what it is that that lad that begat like this this world and life and all that stuff and dark matter and things you know that have a scientific explanation, things like dark matter, but it does also take on a mystical kind of quality. So you've got to wonder if like something that was the root of all life or that was imbued with some sort of quote unquote power could be harnessed into a weapon. And you know, these days we think of harnessing things into weapons more like uranium, like harnessing the power of the atom, which also, if you think about it, harnessing the power of the adam is also harnessing the power of that life giving force, you know, the bits that make us all up and make up all things. So I like that sort of like what is the root of creation? That again, what do they say? Science whatever is? Yes? Yeah, magic science yes yeah. Any sufficiently advanced technology may seem indistinguishable from magic something Yeah, And when when you start looking into certain aspects of black holes, and you know, things that we can explain up to a point, or even like the concept of infinity, there comes this kind of breakaway point where it just starts to kind of feel more like magic. Um. So I love that idea. What I was getting at though, is like, you know, nuclear weapons is you know, obviously harnessing the power of of creation to beget destruction. Um. I don't know that we would necessarily be forging weapons with out of like a steel like for like we don't swordfight anymore. But um, you know, if you if you look at like hattorre Hanzo in the kill Bill movies, and certain types of very bespoke samurai swords when that was like the only game in town, you lived or died by the app the strength and sharpness of your blade of your sword. Um, and you know materials often you know that certain special swords misused would be kind of a mystery as to maybe where they came from. So I love this, uh in terms of fiction, in terms of this world building and kind of mythology. But I also do think that there is something to the idea when you look back on the Silurian hypothesis of like, what are the clues out there, whether it be in our fossil record, And I know Silurian hypothesis is more about Atlantis type you know, civilizations here on Earth. But I also I'm interested in the idea of what if some of that star stuff from another you know world made it to our world in that Big Bang and we did find evidence of like metals that we can't explain, you know, in the fossil record. I'm gonna say something crazy first clarification, because I think I may have I may have misrepresented. Meteorites are not meteors. Meteors often are like really small things. When you're wishing on a shooting start, you're wishing on a meteor that's burning up in the atmosphere and doesn't make it to the ground. Meteorites make it for your ground. Uh. Just blow your mind real quick here, Barren. Uh. The idea about amazing weapons made from things beyond the stars and that deep ink, the first iron that humanity probably encountered did come from meteorites, So yeah, it was way easier to find so then you could make stuff out of it. So that part at least is true. There is a a meteor like grain of truth to this story. And know, to your your excellent observations regarding the Salurian hypothesis, this is the same thing that the originators of that idea they're they're not. I mean, they might take some cues from Atlantis folklore, Lemurian folklore, or Hyperborean folklore, but for Pete's sake, they named it after a doctor who thing. Uh there their main thing. But there's also are on the moon. There's also a Silurian age though right, yes, unrelated. It's spelled differently. It's not the same, Okay. I think I may have misspoken a few times and called that this the Silurian Age hypothesis, and always it's totally confusing. You're right, it's it's it is spelled the same way because the doctor Who writers named their fictional thing after the real thing. The Silurian Age is like four four hundred forty something million to four and sixty million years ago, got it? I don't know, Matt doesn't. Does this gets your sci fi brain tingling? Which just makes me want to hunt for Nether right? Um? I want to make some weapons and still magic stuff. What are we talking here? That's a Minecraft reference. Sorry everybody, Well it's from another right I know? With another is that's like the hellish sort of underground realm um occupied by the what do they call creepers, those kind of like obsidian looking fellows. Yes, I can right now. My brain won't do it. My brain won't do it. I'm sorry because we're you prompted me to think about it and my brain short circuited. My USB support is not currently functioning. I can relate. Would they be hostile mobs? No, that's not creative, that's it. Yeah, there it is, nailed it. You got it. And then there's an end or dragon too, or there's some sort of So in that case, with these questions that we have to ask what could be found? Right? So, one of the big things about the sluring hypothesis is it is essentially a thought experiment. Right at this point, given that Earth is a living thing, one could almost say a living organism, and it regularly consumes everything on its surface, Uh, would it be possible to find traces of some ancient civilization or would they have all been consumed that One of the interesting ideas here is that if there was a civilization that managed to make it out into the ink, to make it to the moon. Then the moon being a as far as humans know, dead thing wouldn't eat that stuff, so you might be able to find it, right, But I I don't know. I'm like you, guys, I think all three of us are fascinated by this, the idea of discovering ancient technology. You know, there's a lot of amazing science fiction about it, and there's just enough of a real world basis to make you wonder what humanity is lost, thinking of specifically the antiquathera mechanism or damask a steel which for a long time was considered a lost manufacturing process. Um And and to your point, Ben, even our listener the baron says, I like my ancient history plausible, accurate, Oh heavens no, merely plausible. So you know, a lot of the things we talked about on this show. We're never here to force any ideas or conclusions necessarily down anybody's throat, but a lot of these things end up being thought experiments, and it's fun to do that, you know, And we try to make sure we're being very clear about what we believe personally and what we're just having a good time discussing, because you know what, what else is there? Man? Like, we don't really know why we're here exactly. Maybe some people might think they do, but I surely don't. Um. And because the moon made us come here, alright, Matt, alright, troll moon moon troll. Um. But it's a lot of fun. And I think that's the spirit of this email, which I love so UM. Thank you the baron um. And by the way, I didn't make that stuff up. It was literally the baron near Eaton upon Lecashire with a small little garden that grows periwinkle. I think that's because we referred to him as the Baron upon Eaton last time. You remember that now but upon first of his name indeed. Um. So we're gonna take a break here I have a word from our sponsor, and then come back with more missives from you. And we are back, and we are jumping to the phone lines. Here we go. I hope you're excited we're gonna hear from Chin, and I hope Chin kind of weird you guys out as much as he worded me out with his story. Here we go. Hey, guys, there's a Chin from Colorado. I'm a utility locator. I locate our communications lines Comcast, Centralinks, Verison, and that's all I do is drive around listening to stuff all day. And I've listened to your guys show a lot. Awesome. I really appreciate it. To appreciate the work that you guys do. It's just great. So there's the areas that I located in Boulder, Colorado, and there's an FBI office there and sort a bunch of millionaires whatever. So the Central Link has these ducks runs that house the massive communications lines, fiber optics, phones, all that stuff. And I came across the ducks line that for the first time, this man hole had a alarm on it. And after I opened it, because there was some construction down the line, I had to locate house the line so that the contractors wouldn't hit it. When I opened it, some armed guards came. They were just black like military looking outfits, and they asked me for my credentials, and and they did. They did a bunch of stuff called a bunch of people, and they asked me to go follow them to an office so that they can run further checks, essentially to see if I was terrorized and terrorized er if I was going to be cutting any of those lines or whatever, and they monitored me while I had that man hole open and they guarded it. Never experienced that before. Super weird, super uncomfortable. But yeah, I just wanted to share that with you. Guys. I know that table mountains over there, and there's a bunch of other top secret stuff that a lot of people don't know about unless you're a part of that. Yeah, I'm great, they guys, keep up the awesome wor thank you so much for everything that you do. But I g yeah, yeah, we got them. Yeah, Colorado, we need to cut that. No, No, we're good. Thank you Chen uh for for calling us and telling us that story. But it's strange, very strange story to me. Uh, guys, what do you think initial thoughts about this totally happened. I believe it. Oh yeah, I believe it happened. To Any theories on why, well, uh sure, this would just be initial speculation. But based on these things. First, man, glad you're okay, because this is not a play around situation. Secondly, uh, many people might be surprised by how uneven security is on various various parts of infrastructure in the United States. There is a there's a wonderful story slash modern folklore thing that comes from the phone freaking community uh freaking pH r e A K I N g um back in like the days of Captain Crunch, the guy who figured out the old Captain Crunch whistle. I read that as like in the days when Captain Crunch was the king of cereals. Well he was a golden time. He was the king of phone hacking for a while because he found He's the guy who found that you could There was a promotion in Captain Crunch cereal for a time that gave away a whistle, and that whistle just happened to have the exact frequency you needed to hack long distance phone lines. And so anyway from this, from this fertile soil, uh, there was a story about these guys who are a lot of them are like young kids, and they're just screwing around on these old school analog phones and they accidentally hit the wrong number of of the equivalent of the panic red phone government thing you see in all the Cold War fiction, and someone picks it up and they're ready to enact some operation and they just need the code words and these kids are freaking out because they don't know what they stumbled on. And and Chin here Matt Chen is in a situation where Chen's just doing his job and all of a sudden he's getting jammed up. He's getting the in degree because he stumbled upon a part of infrastructure that is protected. Like you might stumble across if you're riding freight trains or something, you might accidentally stumble across the wronging trade yard and things will not go well for you. Uh. Luckily, Chen is protected in the best possible way. You had you had communication device with you, which may or may not have been gone through. That's interesting. You also had a very plausible reason to be there and just assuming here safely that you didn't have anything that put up some red flags for surveillance. But yeah, that's nuts. I bet you know what. I bet there are more people met listening to the show who have had something like this happen. I think so too, And we want to hear from you if you have had something like the s occur I'm gonna give you a little more detail. I did talk to Chen for just a bit, uh, just so we He said some things that I didn't fully understand in particular the vocabulary term for today duct lines du c T lines. These are the things Chen mentioned that are covered by manhole covers often and then you go down aboutt of concrete and that's where you've got your communication lines that are run underneath often streets sometimes you know through other places that go you know, they stretch a long way often and you can tap into those lines through those ducts. If you've got a new building that's being constructed or something. Chen was saying. One of these lines that he deals with on a regular basis, like the fiber optic lines, it's fairly small when you think about the circumference of the actual bundle of wires assent that are in there, right, the fiber optic lines that are in there, and it can run an entire huge office building with a single one of those things. You know it when you think about the if you've got a cable modem or ADSL modem or something like that going into your house. When these fiber modems, it's often a tiny little coaxial cable or something that actually comes into your house to attach to your modem. But when you imagine a huge building like that you'd think, well, there's gotta be pipes the size of a buick running all this information into this building. But no, no, no, no no, no, it's very small. It's only it's delicate too, right, especially if you're talking fiber optics, so you've got to protect that stuff. Well, it's literally a pipe that like light shoots through. When we say fiber optic, that's what we mean. So if you kin get up or step on it, or it gets severed or well obviously that would be the case with any electric electronic transmission. But light, it actually is a physical light shooting through a pipe. They actually, back in the day, used to call it light pipe. Yeah, this is the way I started thinking about it. Guys. The um the telephone wires and lines that not so much anymore, but in many places in Atlanta you can still see where the telephone wires run along the streets right there, and they're up above. Well, if you imagine trying to tap into that to monitor communication, I mean you would just have to climb a pole maybe or just be up on a truck or something, and to be able to reach that install some piece of hardware that then copies that information and then sends it to a place where you can monitor it. Let's say, if you're a spy trying to tap into communication lines. In this case, you all you'd have to do, which is kind of scary to think about, is open up that manhole, jump down in there, and install your piece of hardware that then copies all information going through. Which is why it makes sense that there was an alarm connected to this particular manhole. We just don't know what communications were being protected. So I'm gonna just go through a couple more things then we'll be done with this guy's uh. Beneath that manhole was a single one inch conduit, neatly bundled wire, small, very small amount of communication. Beneath this protected thing that he stumbled upon, there was an alarm on it, which it's just um it was what did he say. It's a single line going from this physical alarm box that touched the manhole cover. So as soon as that manhole cover was lifted, the alarm went off. Yeah, like a grounded current that then ceases and then baby baby by something's wrong. It's very old school man, and so that happened. He doesn't realize what's happening, but he realized that there's an alarm and he's like, oh boy, what's about to happen. These guys roll up, like he said, in this like all black military style garb Um. Did they identify themselves when they approached. No. What they did say after they took all of Chen's identifying information was where would the U. S. Government? That's all. It's fine, Then it's fine. Oh good, Yeah, it's right. Okay. They also, by the way, are heavily armed. They're not rolling up with some nines or on the back. Black doesn't mean all black dress. Yeah, yes, um. And they said before you could continue working, they had to run his name through their office. He had he had to just sit there for a while while they ran that check on him. They just watched him. Then he got to do his work and you know, check the line. And it's this cool thing where um, look, I don't understand it everybody out there working in the utility space, but they've got a device that essentially sends a frequency through whatever type of line it is, and they send that frequency through. Then they go down to the other end, like if there's, um, if there's gonna be some digging or something nearby, they go down to the other end of where that digging will be and they check to see if the line is are or not in a particular place, right, like, where are these lines and are they working properly? That's what he's doing. So he does his work. Then, Uh, the agents whoever they were, suggests that they go to a secondary location. And what have we learned about secondary locations? Don't go? Don't go? Yeah, yeah, number one rule. Uh, this is it and it's not us joking, folks, just in general. And also note again, h Chen is doing everything correct as far as we know. And Matt, you spoke with Chen directly and everything seemed above board in terms of this individual's behavior. But still refusal to identify in a specific way is dangerous, right, And had had you demanded clarification, Chen, then that may have been considered an escalation or assistance something that would be non compliance. So you were very briefly, as you know, very deep water. My friend. Yes, thankfully, he was on the telephone like as this is all happening with his supervisor, and his supervisor basically stated, no, you cannot take him. You you cannot take him, and he will not go with you. There's another question just this. This is a question that I think a lot of a lot of people who work in similar related industries will have. Why is there not some sort of mechanism or procedure or policy to give a heads up when this sort of work needs to be done? You know what I mean? Like, if, for instance, if someone is for some reason delivering pizza to the White House, there's probably this thing, right, There's probably some sort of process in place such that folks working at say, seen Hunter will know this is the actual pizza delivery person. Why did that not happen? Also, there's a domino effect. This is Chen's job, so now we're losing all the other stuff he could have been doing that day because he's getting the integree, which again I understand it's necessary. It is correct, they are moving correctly. This is not a thing on anyone involved. But I feel like posing that question is reasonable. Matt. Also, I feel like the answer is you want as few people as possible to know about this thing, and having a policy puts more ears and eyes and brains on it. Would you say that's correct? You're talking about a manhole that's just on the street. It's just they're like all the other manholes you see, and the trip trap of all, a little trip trap, no camera just happ well. See, I think it was under surveillance camera something, right, and that's why they got there as quickly. It probably wasn't even the alarm. The alarm is like the oh, somebody's going in. Can we also please, let's just read, let's go ahead and get it said away. Let's call them person holes if we could. Uh, I feel like man hole is outdated, did you guys? See? Mr Rogers? I did, and I and it made me. I didn't like it. It really didn't age well. So he was so aggressive about it. He's like, it's not a woman hole. It's not like when I saw that, you know. But well, yeah, they've got the staples you have to climb down that are kind of like you know, they're like staples. Yeah, that's what they call them. Actually they call them staples. It's part of urban exploration. But you've gotta be careful. Also, Uh, legal department requires us to tell you you are not supposed to go down there. Correct, don't do that, don't don't even do that. So okay, this is all happening. He has a stumble upon some kind of protected federal wire, right there are I've got three possibilities for what that wire could be going to. Okay, because it was pretty small, so it probably had one specific purpose and was going to one place. First of all, guys, I posted in there some Google Maps references you can look at if you want to. The first one is the David Skaggs Research Center. It's in Boulder, and it's kind of it's a bit of a strange place. It houses several tenants, including Noah, the National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration Earth System Research Laboratory. Oh it is their Earth System Research Laboratory, the National Geophysical Data Center, the Space Environment Center, and the National Weather Service Forecast Office. Maybe it's a federal it's a government facility, right and it's pretty close by, but it doesn't feel like there would be that much interest in protecting the data that they have. Maybe you would still want to protect it, but maybe not to that degree. Segent, you know, I mean number one here, So Segan first would be maybe there is a way of acquiring some of that global meteorological data, and uh, you don't want to expose how or where that's collected. Maybe maybe fitballing and spitballing, unless there's other stuff going on at the SKAG Center. Come on, maybe maybe the other option was mentioned by Chen and it is the Denver Federal Bureau Bureau of Investigation office that is in downtown Denver, and it is kind of in central downtown Denver, which is a bit far oh of, like far away from the area where Chen is operating. But maybe maybe it's leading all the way down there. And if dude, if somebody was trying to just tap into the FBI office, that could be a big deal. I'm gonna game show this is that. Okay, when uh Matt contestant number one here, I'm holding all the bags of badgers for option number three. That's that's why I want to go with option number three. Double down. While you're with me, yes, yes, all right, I'm gonna stick with number two for now, Okay. Number three is this place called the Table Mountain Field Site, which is also very close to Boulder in the area where our friend is operating. This place, guys, I didn't know this. There's another radio quiet zone. I didn't know there was another radio quiet zone and it's right outside Denver. Just north of Boulder on this on this thing called Table Mountain, and it's a research center and facility and uh, kind of cool stuff going on up there. Guys. It makes me wonder just what are they doing? What are they doing over there in that quiet zone because you can do whatever they're doing, they're doing it quietly. They are, according to their official stuff, they support fundamental research into the nature, interaction and evaluation of telecommunication devices, systems, and services. That doesn't sound like much fun. Yeah, there's there's a lot of earth science happening over there. And let me go to the facilities on their website, I T S dot n T i A dot gov. So exciting, such a good u r L. There is a Spectrum Research Laboratory which is just just looking at radio spectrum usage and occupancy. And that's what one of the main reasons they've got a radio quiet zone. They also have an open field radio test site which studies outdoor radiation patterns. Uh. They've got a large turntable that does stuff not for you know, like really huge fin the biggest final you've ever seen, like ten and two big robotic hands. The good people of Boulder tremble in the nights, the brake hits and then the space needle just bends down a little bit. And you know they have to use the space dev for the for the giant turntable. That's it bends down. Yeah, okay, I was from from real far away. Uh So then um, they also have two eighteen point three meter or sixty foot parabolic antennas and there they are steerable in both asimus and elevation. What's up? What's the difference to satellite dish and a parabolic antenna. They're kind of the same thing, right roughly because because you know, at the Radio quiet Zone. At the Radio Quiet Zone and Ben and I went to, they had a giant motorized what we would call maybe in our parlance, a satellite dish, but I think a parabolic antenna is just an antenna with a parabolic dish around it to like, you know, focus it. Yeah, it looks like a satellite dish. Well. They are based at frequencies ranging from a four hundred megahurts to six giga hurts. Jeez, this is like the SNL sketch from Bill hayd and uh John Mulaney I think wrote it. Writers deserved more credit. But he's like the Stephan sketch. You know what I'm talking about. It's got everything. Uh. So with everything you're describing, Matt. That's why in this fake game show we're making up, I'm putting my money on three. Uh primarily to be completely honest. Primarily because of the nature of radio research there. You would need to have if it's a quiet zone, right, you would need to have wired connections. But still given the distance that is actually they boast about that, they boast about how everything is buried that goes in comes out of there, but still not I mean, I think you chose the top three best possible explanations. I have no clue. I don't know if if you do or chen does, or if you do know or document not characteristically silent? What do you know? No, the he's with Big Vinyl. Okay, so no, no, not all right, guys. Well that's it from Chenn. Thanks so much again for sending us that voicemail. If you've got any information, give us a call, send us an email. We're going to be right back after a word from our sponsor with some disturbing stuff. We have returned one more piece of listener mail. It was hit up on Instagram by someone who wants to remain anonymous. We will understand why just gonna read this will stop at any time for new questions. Loved episode on shot spot or it was so well done. I work at a really large software consulting firm Parentheses. You know the name, but would probably have no idea we do this type of work in Parentheses. I'm a criminal analyst in the pre crime and Predictive Policing department. I don't think a lot of people know that. We currently utilize minority reports style analytics and provide them to police departments and governments with a goal of proactively reducing crime before it happens. This is a real person, it's a real job. How do you reduce it before it happens? Though? Right? It's an unknown unknown and you know, and so what was that joke from earlier in the show, all these people talk lazily talked about traveling back in time and killing Hitler. You're not going to be the guy who saved Hitler. You're going to be the guy who killed a baby. That's how history will remember you. So yeah, So this source goes on and says your episode made me think of this because we utilize shot spot or data in combination with a lot of other data points self own calls, license plate info, real time arrest booking data, ton more. My work is definitely more on the controversial side of things, and I think there are pros and cons with it. So you know, one of the responses we have a conversation full disclosure, and one of the initial things to message out in these sorts of conversations is hey, please stay safe and don't feel like you need to engage with us if it compromises your safety or your families. So I got the green light on that. Again, if you're listening to your safety and your anonymity are important to us, you are the best part of this show. Anonymous replies and says, I'm a boring civilian. I just happened to work in this field, and uh I'll follow up with some info. I had asked whether there was anything this person wanted us to share with you, fellow listener about how to maintain your cloud hygiene. If that's less of a militaristic scary term, then op sack operational security. So cloud hygiene going with that just a branding thing. Uh So source response, I think it's difficult for me to provide observations about this personal opsec or cloud hygiene just because it's not coming from the angle of here's some tips to protect yourself for when this technology advances end quote. It's more so that this technology is here already and is being utilized. This is the scary part. This is why we're talking about this on air. For example, when I trained on the predictive policing software that we build and use, I typed in my own name. I have no criminal background, and it returned a ton of info on me. It even had a map bullet pointed with where I had been in the past several days based on credit card purchases and shots of my license plate from various cameras, as well as a prediction of where I currently was. I don't know if any of this was helpful at all. Um. This source goes on to recommend you all collectively learn a little bit more about something called flock Safety. Flock safety dot com a company that this individual's company uses data from. It's similar to shot Spotter, but think of more active visual component, more cameras on there. So imagine you're there. Thank you Anonymous. Imagine you're there, right you. This is your job, and just to take this system around the block. You know, you type in uh max powers Astronaut with a Secret or whatever your name is, and then it starts showing you, you know, Lord of the Ring style, some things that have come to pass, some things that have yet to be Uh. That's kind of spooky when it's your day to day life and it's already happening. Anonymous is saying that rubicon has been crossed? Is that surprising to you, guys? Yeah, this is very surprising to me because I don't know how you would effectively use it to actually prevent crime. I mean, I'm I'm looking at Flox Safety's website right now, Ben, and it's uh. I mean, you tell me if I'm wrong. I think they just set up a bunch of cameras and microphones in like a neighborhood or something, or a small area. Whoever signs up, right, and they monitor everything that happens, and they it's analytics forward, So if the same Dodge charger comes through an area, they can verify with their technology that it is the same Dodge charger that keeps coming by. Is this scanning license plates or like everything everything if it looks if it looks like it has maybe a distinctive feature like a custom job, a dent or you know the classic Atlanta window pane which is or duct taper cards. I'd be impressed with the tech if it wasn't so terrifying sounding, you know. They also, oh, speaking of sounds, they're also monitoring for how the vehicle sounds. Does that have any hiccups or chirrups? More particularly, is it associated with screeching tires? Now, the website seems very family friendly. What you're gonna see is to grade school kids holding hands behind a headline that says reduced crime in your community by up to seventy and it goes on it talks about it. It's good. It's a good website. Uh. It's also cloud connected. And like you said, man's I have saw on Style twenty four seven, this is not the company that employs anonymous But as they said, they gathered data from a lot of places. You may have noticed when you picked up and if you picked up an EFFE in the past few years and you just operated out of the box, you might have gotten some weirdly prescient alerts or little notes from Apple from your pals in the Apple sandbox. They would just say, hey, it's time to go to the gym, And you don't know if they're being weirdly, if they're weirdly negging you, or if they're just noticing that you tend to go to the gym at seven thirty pm X amount of times a week and which days it's happening. There's also something they're just trying to help you with. I was about to say, little little metals that are like like, boy, you hit your you hit your mark for the week. Wait a minute, where's this coming from? Wow? Are you watching me? I love it? This is also it's like that old meme. I think a lot more people would be okay with the surveillance state in which the modern American lives. Uh, if they got nicer messages occasionally, you know what I mean? If you get something like you have a bad breakup and get something just says an essay, It's like, hey, bro, got this? Are they sending you like a bouquet of flowers on your birthday or something? You know? Yeah, I mean the budgetary costs they get a little weird. Maybe they send you an n f T of flowers, so you know they're your flowers. You guys, I want to mention something really quickly. I'm still on that flock Safety website. It's just kind of the corner of my eye. Here. We last episode, on our Strange News episode that we just recorded before this, we mentioned the Delphi murders in the update with that. On this flock Safety website, there's a picture of two elementary school age girls, young girls on the front of their website and it says reduced crime in your community buy up to sevent um. When if you think about it, in the situation with those Delphi murders, if something like flock Safety was there, the murderer or even the abductor would have probably been seen, that vehicle would have been tracked or traced, and you could then find whoever did that pretty easily. Probably, But it's way more in my mind, and after a crime has occurred, this is a much more effective way to get those early leads rather than figure out who's going to do the crime. If it sticks around in its current form, this brings us to something else and you get anonymous grateful for this inside perspective, l A. P D got into the predictive crime or pre crime game a while back through something called Operation Laser. And again, the rubicon has passed. This bridge has already been burned. You can't screw the lid back on Pandora's jar here, and yes it's a jar. It's just it's a less sexy story, but it's more accurate. Uh. In two thousand eleven, l A p D factions are deployed Operation Laser, and it would take information about past defenders over a two year period. UH using tech developed buy a returning guest of the show, the sketchy data analysis firm Palenteer bonus points for anybody remembers that one and Uh. It would score individuals based on their jacket, based on the rap sheet. Been in a gang five points, you're on parole, you're on probation, five points. Every time you get there's a feedback loop. It's dangerous. Every time you get stopped by police, whether or not that results in detainment or a conviction. Conviction, that's some more points. Every time they just come knocking on your door, who's there? Five more points. That kind of stuff. Uh. And then when you look at the aggregate of these points. You also see their overlaid geographically where do you live? Right? And a lot of people thought this could do a great job solving the saving human lives, right. Uh. And then a lot of other people said, Hey, this is kind of creating a feedback loop. This is guilty before proven innocent, especially considering that a lot of folks in a probation or po situation do have to interact with law enforcement. And if that system automatically adds points right every time that interaction occurs, and that interaction is mandated, are you not setting these folks up to fail, right, especially considering that financially they're not going to be in the best position. They are required to live in certain locations in some cases, right, whether it's a due to the circumstances or copyat surrounding their release, or whether it's due just to the fact that they can't afford to live in a nice area of Los Angeles. The average US resident, by the way, cannot afford to live in a nice part of Los Angeles. Nope, right, we know we we traveled Los Angeles pretty frequently for work. Uh, and I love it, love the town. So this I was not too familiar with Operation Laser. I was interested to learn almost a year ago exactly now. L A p D ended Operation Laser because a massive public outcry. They also had something called pred poll, like predator policing. And this feels like it's just the future though surveillance is already here. That's what Anonymous is saying. You know, these nonprofits are doing good work from their perspective, they're being good faith actors, whether or not you agree with them. And then you could say the businesses that are doing this stuff, they're trying to be good faith actors too. They just want to make a little money on the way because their for profit. But what's the answer. Can we solve this in like the three minutes this show has left? Wait, oh I'm going on that. Yeah, we've got several jokes, that's the set up. Yeah, yeah, seriously though, let us know your opinions on things like this. Again, you know, we did our best to represent UH in the shots by ourself. We did our best represent their take on the criticisms right, and we always tried. We don't want to tell you what to think, of course, we want to tell you what other people are saying and what can be factually proven, So let us know your ideas, respond to anonymous, tell us what's on your mind. But before you do that, before you get to the various ways to contact us. As Matt said, we wanted to end on a good note. So we have not one, but several jokes for you. So here a few from returning jokester Humorous Harry, Humorous Harry. Remember the card is a real card. It's real card rights joke books as well. So we're just gonna do a couple of these real quick, and then we'll go to a voicemail joke. So, hey, guys, why don't vampires eat beef because they're all the beef is stolen because steak is bad for their hearts? All right, Okay, we'll just do one more from Harry. Then we'll go to the we'll go to the voicemailing. Here, let us save these. I want to save these. Uh and Harry, Harry is putting in the work here. All right, another vampire joke. What do you call a vampire drummer? Oh? Hang on, hang on, hang on? Uh nope, nope, I thought I could get it a dead beat. Uh. And on that note we've got there would be a zombie drummer Harry No, no, no, I mean vampires are technically dead as well, Matt. They're just more suave and good looking than vampires. Well, Harry said us this great list of Halloween jokes. Let us know if you want to hear more. But we want, uh want to treat this last part like it opened, Mike, So we're making space for all our performers. Um, Matt, you went to the phone lines. You found one that I think I've made my day. I love, I love a good uh sound based joke. Noll of you heard this one, I'm not. I'm looking forward to hearing. It's cold where I hype it up? But there we go. Here we go, Okap, you did it. It's not our fault. This is KP. Here we go, gentlemen, my name is KP. You can use my voice. You ask for jokes, and so here's the one I used to win me my wife back in the day. Why did our creator make it so that the split in your butt goes up and down instead of left or right, So that way, when you fly down a water slide, you don't go remember anyway, you'll have a good day. I really really appreciate you'll show thank you bye bye. Oh. That so that presupposes that the creator, like new water slides are gonna be the most important obviously leisure activity that humans would participation edited out of the Bible in the Council of nicea calling something different though in there, I think, yeah, they called them Noah ramps or something like that, right, right, And that's how the animals got off the boat. Right. It was like it's like one of those airplane inflatable ramp things, you know, for when you're doing an evacuation. Uh, evacuations are also strange. Uh, you know, as we needed for evacuations. Yeah, okay, we're on the same page. Horizontal evacuation. Okay, this is very strange. Well what better? What better way to end it? So happy to all our fellow listeners. If you want to join the show, we can't wait to have you Overstay safe, be well, do good. As they used to say, I'm Prairie Home companion. In the meantime, take a page from our fellow conspiracy realists reach out. We try to be easy to find online. You can find us on Facebook. You find us on YouTube and Twitter at the handle conspiracy Stuff. On Instagram, were conspiracy stuff show. And if you'd like to literally take a page from so many of our fellow listeners, why not pick up a copy of our book the stuff they don't want you to know. That's right, we made it into print. Yeah, you can take two of those, that's right. I think it's about two. Uh. We had a heck of a time writing it. We have a behind the scenes episode on how we did what we did and why that came out last week as you're hearing this. But again, support means a world for us. Uh. 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