From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of My Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Nol and they called me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer, Mr Matt Frederick. Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. So this is a follow up episode, folks, we did uh we previously looked at the absolute messy Bollos spaghetti that is federal classification, How it got there, why no one really wants to fix it now, just because you know it's like legacy code. It's so precarious, and I I cursed a lot in that episode, just because you know it's uh in in saying how how strange the situation is. That would be a fun experiment. Give one person uh Ubert clearance to be able to see everything right, and then they get to go through everything that's ever ever been classified top secret down and just like go through it and what is necessary and what is not? Make do it? Maybe Jagger right he probably got pretty close and used it, used it for nefarious ends. Yes, Jagger Hoover was basically running the FBI like a mob. That sounds like a monkey's park on a scenario the two because like you'd find out so much it would break your brain and then you would just like you know, go postal in some very profound and alarming way. Well, I mean, we could let Charlie do it. Charlie Day would do it, or you know what's Jared Kushner up to right now? Oh? Boy? Yeah, that's a that's a billion dollar question, isn't it. Uh. This follow up answers some of the questions that we left off with. In federal Classification. We didn't get to the part about security clearances. We talked about how things are secret and why the concept of secrecy is so slippy. We also learned a lot about Dagastani weddings, which was apparently top secret or classified. Uh. But today we're gonna look at how people actually get official access to this information. So here are the facts. First thing, first, what what is a security clearance like in real life? Well, here in the United States, and security clearance is the official um designation given to an individual UH in terms of their level of access to varying types of classified information within differing parts of the government. It allows them to kind of, you know, it's silos information to different individuals who qualify UH for these various security so it's very hierarchical. In other words, access at one level UM gives you access to the information at lower levels, but not you know, the other way around. Yeah, so if you if you get a secret clearance, then you odds are you're going to have access to stuff that's less sensitive like classified stuff as well. But if you just have a UM, if you just have a number of clearances that are like public trust clearance or just regular classified, then no, you're not in the room where they talk about top secret stuff. And the weirdest thing is, you know, a lot of if you're going back to your idea the one guy, the one guy or the one person, I think what would surprise them the most be Yeah, there's some horrific, frightening stuff, but a lot of it probably doesn't matter to the average person, you know what I mean. It's like, oh, we we have a line on you know, the chocolate futures in insert company here. Most people aren't gonna care, right, aren't going to be able to capitalize on that, But they might come in handy for the next coup though, just say yeah, yeah, the next the chocolate coup. They'll call it, uh, this chocolate cous It would be great. Yeah, it's chocolate coup already a thing someone have that. I don't think so, I think it's just chocolate range chocolate. Yeah, yeah, okay, no, chocolate coup totally different. So so we have to remember, like, no, you're correct. We have to also remember that secret clearance for one agency or again fiefdom, does not necessarily mean you have access to information other agencies consider secret. On paper, they're supposed to the credit transfer of background check is supposed to work, but that's not always the case, especially when you get to the really sticky stuff. So how do you get a security clearance? You have to be vetted. There's a background investigation. Shout out to anybody who's had one of those. They go pretty deep depending on your level of clearance. Well, and you could think about this too in maybe more of a workplace kind of situation. Let's not connect to the government, like let's say somebody works for a nuclear power plant, you know, it's that you don't you don't have access to certain areas unless you get clearance. And those clearances, because you're working with potentially dangerous materials, do require significant background checks and regular drug tests and all of that kind of stuff. So there's there's some cross over there, but it's probably not like something you've experienced unless you have had work in one of those really dangerous, you know, situations right where you're handling materials. The background checks I've had probably have never gotten close to the level that you'd get if you were going for a clearance, no question. I mean, I think maybe all of us at some point had to just get like a right to work background check, you know, or had to present some sort of citizenship documents or whatever just to satisfy certain legal criterias for corporations. But it's probably about the extent of it for me. Man, My understand is, you you need like this is like talking to your friends and loved ones and like a physical human being hanging out and going, hey, so what do you know about this Noel Brown character? Right? You've seen it in fiction, and it's actually not too far away. In some cases, Uh, they might you might let's say, I might get a call from someone who says, we're, uh, we're evaluating nod friend of yours, Matthew Frederick, and uh, just like to ask you some questions. We understand that he played in a in a musical outfit called Lions and Scissors. Is that correct to your knowledge? And they were good. They not slap, I mean a little the fiction. They're like, there's something interesting here because he's a co writer on you know, track seven. Uh, and just like to read these lyrics and get gone confirmed whether or not he was involved ideologically with the message of this song. Usually it's not. He was just but but they will look into you know, your foreign contacts. They will, we'll we'll get into all the stuff they'll look into. Uh. And the drummer is the most important party. When people say just the drummer, frontmen need to deal with that. The drummer is the most important part. Oh, you frontmen out there, stop front but your ego and check so uh while all that's happening. And yes, the last you know, maybe your college professors, maybe even down to your grade school folks. Uh, they'll check every address you lived at and if you spend time in another country, if you have a dual passport, forget about it. Honestly, for some of this stuff, you just you can't be trusted, even if your record spotless. But you you also have to sign really serious n d A s uh. This one is called s F three one two because governments love doing this. It's a standard form, but that's what s F stands for. It applies to any employee of the government or someone who contracts out, and a lot of private citizens, a lot of civilians contractors do have clearances they have to. But then it gets this other thing. There has to be a proven reason that you need to know this. You need to know about this Dagastani wedding, you need to know about nuclear um nuclear enrichment technology. So they have to say, here's why you do this. Sometimes it's a formality. That might be the easiest part because there's a lot of information that gets technically classified. But if you're already in a secure network because of your job, or you're going to a lot of meetings because of your job, you're probably gonna hear about it, you know what I mean. So sometimes the need to know is we just feel like this person is naturally going to run into this, So let's make it has down to one off of these clearances. Uh. But then you know, the stuff I think a lot of us think of from the outside looking in is special access programs, compartmentalized intelligence. This stuff did not happen kind of things, black bag ops. You know, how do we get that cocaine over the border into Los Angeles? That's that's that didn't happen. Right officially, that's what the courts will tell you. But I don't know, like how far how far should you go for security clearance? Just the idea spooks some people out, honestly. You know, they've got polygraphs sometimes even though that's not solid science. Uh, in a lot of ways, right, like how like you said, in all the deepest background check, Um, they might have it at jobs like some n d A, some basic prove you have a Social Security number in the US birth certificate stuff. But it can go deeper when you get a mortgage right or alone. Right, mortgages are tough. They're like checking on your toe a nailing. Well, not not to get too too personal, but like you know, recently, uh, Matt and I both recently had to get a mortgage, and um day before you know, my closing, all of a sudden, there's this like five alarm kind of situation where they're missing these uh details about my previous rental history. And it's because I'm still renting the place and it hasn't been exactly two years to the day, but it will have been by the time my my lease is up. And even though the lease says it's you know, for this period through this period, the fact that I haven't actually paid it doesn't match up to a payment that I haven't made yet. So all of a sudden, they're like, you gotta make the payment now, and I'm like, okay, but I I do. I read through this property management company and I don't even know how to go about doing that comes out and it's like after hours on the weekend, you know, and it was just, oh my god. It was bonkers. And depending on the type of loan you're getting to, you're going to have to do more and more and more stringent kind of like submit yourself to more stringent background checks and and very specific situations. Sorry, I just just triggered me because that was like I thought I was gonna lose it. And I literally thought I was gonna lose my mind. No, we I get it. I think we've all been through some kind of weird situation like that, right, I really quickly, I want to bring up Secret Service and I think we've talked about this before quickly in the past been and I just super fast. Um, I knew a guy who went into UH to become a Secret Service agent and what he had to go through to get that position and to get cleared for that, Like the process was so nuts. He had to prove that he has never ever once smoked cannabis, Like he had to prove something that he's never Yeah, because I guess they're worried about his potential mind state because of that drug. Like that just that that confused me to no end. Yeah, But I mean that's an it's also an achronistic in archaic in some ways, right that that law has not caught up with recent science, That law is not caught up with other laws that decriminalize or legalized cannabis in a federal level law to that degree is probably on the way. But that's also another reason why a lot of US cyber outfits are in are having a tough time because it seems like I'm quoting an anonymous source here. It seems like all the good hackers get high and then like and that's that's a deal breaker for a lot of clearances. So they're gonna have to address that at some point. Um, here's another thing. If you live in the US or if you follow US politics, you've heard you've heard the recent hubble ub uh. Security clearances and classification got in the news in a big way not too long ago. So we're gonna just clear the air here once and for all. Yes, the President of the United States, the bodus, whomever that may be, does have the ability to declassify previously classified information. But it's not like just yelling base in a game of tag. You have to do stuff. There is a detailed process. You can't just you know, snap your fingers and make it so well, he can't do it with his mind. Man. Well, that was in the news recently for President Donald Trump. I believe it came out that he made a statement that he believed he could just decide what to take by thinking about it. Yeah, so that's and that's why all these arms of the US government are freaking out now because make no mistake. If you had that kind of there's not malevolence, let's call it negligence. If you had that kind of negligence as a government employee, you'd be fired. You you'd be fired and sent to jail most likely with that. With that, just because of the weight he's carried. Think of it like drugs, right, information is like a drug. And he was moving weight. Uh, and he was moving weight the wrong way. So yes, However, a president does have the ability, through some pretty detailed processes, to declassify some previously classified stuff. So why won't they tell us about the aliens? Moving on? Moving on? Man, I could take all the classified documents I want and Adidas can't drop me right the scope, I have a sneaker deal. I wonder what kind of sneakers they would be. And he's got a big red tie deal. Um over long, I thought it was the same tie. But yes, no, no, it's it's true. U. Still, the thing is that if they can't declassify it without going through this process, if you are the president, you do get some loopholes. You can get access to any of the information you request, like a lot of it. Uh, even if you would ordinarily not be able to get a security clearance if you weren't president. So if you're a president who says, yeah, I smoked weed and I inhaled, like former President Barack Obama, you know that knocks you out of the running for so like he couldn't be on his own secret Service detail. But because he's the president, you know, you circumvent that. So that's right, because you're a duly elected president, all of that stuff goes by the wayside, correct, Like you just have carte blotch. You have access to all the things, a lot of them. There's also the ideal plausible deniability because there's some stuff you have to even if you have the vibe, you have to not know about it. Uh, in case I'm gonna start sniffing around or you get caught out. I would imagine they would recommend that you not look at this. But couldn't you also just say, na, screw that, show me the goods you quite plausibly? Yeah, And you know it's still the weird thing is it feels like there's a lot of precedent there, But we have to remember there haven't been a lot of US presidents. It's a young country, so there's always there. There may well be a plot twist on the way. And you know, but until relatively recently, we seem to have had a tradition of kind of following the rules and and and and adhering to these kind of recommended uh standardizations. Right, yeah, well people try. You know, the US is still in the experiment phase as a country. Uh. Look, we know that just like classification, a bunch of agencies can make something secret or top secret, a bunch of agencies can also clear people two do their stuff right to be read on read into these programs. Right now, I think the d D issues the majority of all clearances. If you take all of their employees because they're huge, the Pentagons, like the world world's biggest office building, and then you take all the people who contract out, then about that is going to be the D O T. But you know, D O, E, C, I, A, all the all the alphabet soup guys, they all have clearances and they're generally something just hit, yeah, something just hit uh ben FBI C I A A T F K K K K K R S C and C B S wait I R S NBC T N T. I was just I was thinking up FBI, A, T F KKK I R, S, NBC, CBS, T N T telling LIZE. Yeah, okay, okay, sorry, shout out dead press. Yeah, that's that's the third verse and a dead press. It's just that chance. It's pretty pretty sick. Um dead press would not get security clearances. They say, this is a big fan of him one and stick Man. Uh No, they would not get clearances. Um, but if you are a person gets clearances, they're like five types you can get and they're they're a little bit snoozy until you get to the end, but it's important to know them. Let's hit you with it. Controlled unclassified. We talked about that in the last episode, hopping over to episode one in this series to learn about that one. We got a public trust position. Now that's interesting, that's that's I don't understand that one. Yeah, it's a weird one. And so so like you are, you are not getting a security clearance. It's not the same as being read onto confidential stuff. But you're the nature of your job whatever that might be, requires access to certain sensitive information, so it can't be necessarily classified. But it is something that could be weaponized. It's something that could be dangerous, So you might you might be in a public trust position if you work with certain levels of infrastructure or utilities. Right, I know how I know how to hack the water treatment facility, says someone work, right, so that I can make it work? Well, WHOA what the guns out? So we can make it work? Guys. So that's one that I think is new to a lot of us. Those can be considered moderate risk or high risk in the U s pt P. That's another man. Okay, Next, you've got confidential, that's you know, something we've all heard about. That's like, that's like your low tier super controlled information. Right. Then you got secret that's above that. Gotta you gotta have another level to reach out one. Then top secret and you know that's of course the one that's the most exciting usually, but it's not really the most exciting stuff is compartmented. Oh yeah, don't let don't let that incredibly boring name fool you. It's not a bento box. It's uh, the absolutely, it's not eligible, it's the absolute top secret, creme de la creme of no one can know. It's called sensitive compartmented information. And this is where all the badgers, this is the bag where all the all the interesting badgers are. You know, we're talking about signals intelligence measures and signature intelligence mass and we're talking about um the US Navy control systems, the Helm of Power here, electronic surveillance programs like Stellar Wind, which was another thing people were it's supposed to know about, and those have the Really, here's a question I want to put to you, guys. By the time you get to compartmented information access, aren't you already pretty vetted? Like I would think, because this is only case by case stuff. If you are read onto some red into some aspect of Stellar Wind, then you are not automatically read into any other hypothetical s c I thing like you know, if they've been secretly hunting Bigfoot or sixty years and there's a crack team of neo Neanderthals who are participating in that search, you're not going to know about it unless you get read into that program. I was, Stellar Wind is a huge surveillance thing. Everyone should be mad about it. Yeah that, I mean that was was Stellar Wind before Snowdon or was that a part of Snowden. That's the only thing I can't remember because I know that's what I learned about what Yes Nowdon talked about. I think Wired released that when Wired and Washington Post in the Guardian, we're able to do as this huge data mining operation very illegal as in the wake of nine eleven that's when it happened, and a lot of people who had top secret security clearance wouldn't know about it, and a lot of people who could have raised a flag in the halls of government weren't told about it because you can weaponize classification. There's an incredible whistle blower. I remember seeing videos of him talking about this, and it's like I've been trying to get tell people about this. William Binny b I n n E. Yu say he was an n s A agent who became a whistle blower and talked about Stellar Wind and was not promoted afterwards. To put it likely, so to get access to this, let's take Benny as an example, he had to successfully go through what's called a single scope background investigation. This is the high level one they talk about. They check every job you've ever had, whether you told them about it or not. Education, any affiliations or organizations you've been kicking it with, UH, any local law enforcement stuff, about every place you have lived, worked, traveled, or attended school. Uh. They'll also interview people who you personally and professionally. They'll run your credit. Uh, they'll look if you've got a spouse or someone who lives with you, whether that's a roommate or a romantic partner. They're getting the business to Everyone gets touched. And the reason everyone gets touched, as paranoid as it sounds, is because in the era of the Cold War, a lot of like deep cover folks were able to successfully fool the system. So it's a real thing. Even when it seems silly. Uh, it is dangerous. And if at any point you refuse to us close something or you accidentally don't disclose it, the rule is you're automatically disqualified. That's the rule. So no scrups. You're doing this cross word in pen and you can't get an answer wrong. And in the end, it's like, how how often do you still say the pledge of allegiance to yourself in your mind? Because really it's what it's about, right allegiance to the United States. If it's that, if that's the government you're trying to get into. Yeah, so let's think of it in terms of without getting too in the weeds when you get to the crazy stuff, right, So without getting too in the weeds, investigators are looking for exactly the kind of stuff you would think about. They want to see whether someone has lots of debt that means they're easier to manipulate. Right, there's a financial motive. They want to see if someone has a personal relationship with sketchy characters. You know, how tight are you with the ruling body of Saudi Arabia? Right, it's spent a lot of time and you're in Yeah, okay, Sun be a terrible example. Let's say mean mar or China would be a spooky winner Russia something like that. Uh, if you have a standing record, that's an interesting one of immoral behavior, like moral turpitude. If you've ever heard that phrase trying to pass customs. Uh. This can be sticky and subjective because a lot of people say smoking wheat in college or having an edible at a God Speed to Black Emperor show when you're in your you know, twenties, doesn't this is the best thing, the best of all possible worlds, everything everywhere, all at once level cool. But that would be regarded in some situations as immoral, you might be able to mitigate it, but it'd be really tough. Other things like d u I s. Of course, if you have a bunch of if you've been busted with a bunch of cocaine and you weren't working off the books for an intelligence agency, and that's that's a problem. Um. And one really messy thing about that one in particular is you know, back in the day when the government even more openly persecuted lgbt Q people, evidence of same sex relationships or being being non heterosexual could also be seen as even making you even more of a weak link than having a lot of debt, because you might be manipulated. That was how their their logic went. We're not saying that. So that's what I mean when sticky, it's subjective what is immoral? But also like the don't people with families fall into that category? You know, if you have loved ones or anyone that could be kidnapped or threatened in order to get some information from you. Isn't that sort of what we always see in like action movies that just by you know, we we have we have these like Lone Wolf characters have decided to rid themselves off any attachment. It's because everyone they love, they've ever loved, was hurt because of them. You know. I just it seems like there are other ways outside of this this moral turpitude kind of like path to manipulate people. Yeah, there's always a way to get in. There's a chink in every armor obviously, right. But uh, but with the basically is how easy can we make a p tape of this person? Right? Right? Right? Can they get honey potted? So this, Uh, I've heard before, and this is kind of off the record, but I've heard before people saying that they like folks who have an established family. They like you know, as long as your family is also US based and you're children aren't openly working as mercenaries, then uh, they like it because it gives you, um, at least an appearance a higher likelihood of stability. You have stuff on the line, you know. Um, So it can it can go different ways, obviously, Yeah, no criminal background, that's a big one. Uh. Sometimes people get around it and then it goes the most subjective thing that that you have mentioned, that sense of loyalty. How do you prove that? How do you measure that flag? Outside your house on a pole U flag on your vehicle somewhere, either a sticker or like a lapel pit. You have to own a bald eagle or no someone for every meal pledge of allegiance before every meal, Um, you have to have gone to the Stone Mountain laser show at least twice. You remember that one? Oh yeah, oh yeah, it's not been that long. I remember it was. It's one of those things that seems normal when you're a kid, and looking back, I'm like, wow, that's kind of indoctrination, isn't it. Yeah, Stillmoult lasers show, folks, I don't know if they still do it. Check it out. So it's obvious white people have this right. Most people who have security clearances aren't James Bond level wet work dudes. They just need the info to do their job. You are a janitorial staff at the Pentagon, then you probably have a security clearance just because you probably don't have You know, you're probably not read on two compartmented intelligence or compartmentalized, but you are. They definitely looked into you. Didn't just like give you the job on a handshaken a vibe. Do you think instead of trash cans at a secured facility like that. They have just paper shredders everywhere instead like everybody has a paper shudder at their desk or an incinerator. They actually have they have a specific measure than they used to have, this specific measure for the level of shredding, Like you couldn't have just your you know, your office depo are best buy shredder had to They didn't want people taping the strips together, is what what they meant? Um, Yeah, that's a good question. There was a rumor for a long time that you know, there's a food court in the Pentagon or there was, Um, it's probably still there. And for a long time I had heard that even the folks were working at the subway had to have a background check. And at that point, I feel like I would think it was too much trouble, you know what I mean, Like I'm and that's not a ding on subway at all, But I would just say I'm going through a lot. You know, this is we're in an area in the world where they're like twenty other subways down the street. Yeah. Can you imagine just getting into work every day to have to do prepped like to to make that tuna say, I which you I bet that people were cool though you know you're all you always gotta be nice in person. Makes your food so right right now, It's so difficult to guess how many people have a security clearance, but back in the Washington Post put the number at about five point one million. Again, how many people can know about something before it no longer becomes secret. Five point one million Americans some sort of security clearance for sense of scale that is higher than the population of Norway. It's like we told a group of people as big as the population of Norway. Yeah, but that's why the compartment and stuff is so much more interesting because there are so many fewer people that have that kind of clearance. Quick correction, So we checked these facts. I'm sorry, Matt, No, I just remembered as of the population, Norway's five point four zero eight million people, so they went up. Norwegians. Please don't send the angry email. We checked. Uh, And this is a lot of secrets. So the question is what could go wrong? It turns out a great deal and pause for word from our sponsors. Here's where it gets crazy. Okay, No, Matt, how seriously how many people can know something before we just throw up our heads and say it's not a secret anymore. Those are what they call open secrets, right, like Israel's nuclear program, right right, Yeah, but I don't know it's it's is it more of a is it more of an issue or a question of decorum at that point, you know, where it's like, yeah, okay, the cats out of the bag, But we don't want to claim responsibility for letting the cat and or badgers out of the bag. So we're gonna keep it classified like that even though we know, because you know, it behooves us for more people not to know. And if something is an open secret, that also it still has the air of around it. M hmm. Well, let's let's talk about how weird these numbers are. So before the break, we talked about five point one million Americans to have some sort of security clearance. That number came from according to the Washington Post. But this year CNN put out an article written by Zachary B. Wolfe found that the Director of National Intelligence twenty seventeen security clearance Determinations. Wow, that's a lot listed more than two point eight million people as having clearance as of that October, so like October. Um, yeah, that's an interesting one. So are they talking about government employees only, right, or the because that seems like a heck of a drop from five million. Uh, you know most of those again one point six have confidential or secret information access and then one point to have the top secret rating. But one point two million with top secret. Yeah, a lot of secrets, a lot of a lot of top secrets. But uh, but yeah, it's it's weird. There are other people like said who have security clearance but they don't currently have access to information. Private contractors clearances. It's crazy they have to. And now in recent years the idea of that, even the very important but often snooze festi process of getting a security clearance has become controversial politically charged. Uh. Two of the biggest issues, of course, include when politics gets inserted into the into the clearance game political impointees, I'm not saying this. It's not like you know in the sixties, are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party. It's like a bunch of people in in intelligence saying no, not this guy, don't give it to him. And then someone with a lot of political capital, using their juice to say I don't care, you know what I mean. And that's what happened with Trump and his son in law. I see what you're saying. You're saying that like purity clearances can kind of be rammed through with a little grease from the right person. Yeah, and that's the problem that they shouldn't I mean, yeah, right, yes, agreed, agreed, I agreed. Yeah, I mean, let's let's talk about it. Then, you guys, remember right with this wash the administration of them President Trump, um, And we're using this one because it's just the best, most recent example. And he gotten a lot of hot water in the press and with the intelligence community because he did two things that don't make a lot of sense in a meritocracy or in a competent security environment. One, he gave his son in law a job right as like senior advisor. And this was a political appointee position, which means it's really up to hint, it's up to the president. It's the president's staff. You can't say, I mean, you could say you don't like someone, but that you don't have any influence on whether or not they can get hired. Well, multiple high level people did say that they they did. They did because he not only hired Jared Koshner, his son in law, but he gave him top secret clearance. Right. Yeah. Uh, multiple agencies said back in like eighteen, they said, this guy has a lot of conflicts of interest. Mr President. Uh, we're just saying that if we were, if we were doing the background check, she would check a lot of boxes. That meant he could never work at this level. Bad boxes bad But he had checking bad boxes. Yeah, because I mean also, the question too becomes like why and to what ends? Because you know, we're not and this isn't what we do in the show. We're not trying to smear anybody politically or anything. But there there there was a sense I think among some you know, even down to why did Trump take home those classified documents and not give them up when asked that perhaps he was priming uh, some of these close personal um confidants, uh, to be able to access information and kind of hold it over certain individuals. Yeah. And when you're dealing with stuff that the Kushner family really was dealing with at that time, you could you could be compromised in various ways. One of the biggest ones been was this six million dollar like real estate thing, Manhattan real estate deal American dream. Uh. The Kushner family owned this pretty nice tower in Manhattan, but they were hemorrhaging money on it. They were having trouble with the deal. And again, to be fair, real estate can be a risky business, right, So no one's saying this was necessarily a scam, but it was seen as a conflict of interest when it came out that Uh Kushner and the Kushner companies were actively courting foreign investors to help with the cash. That's something that is, you know, not uncommon in the world of real estate, but in the world of dealing with government secrets. You don't want people who need money from foreign powers. It's just like day one stuff. Yeah. And not only that, they I think there was something about them they like met with White House officials, the family did, and then when they came away, I think the City Group and maybe one other outfit like lent them a ton of money after, you know. And and that's not necessarily that bit, but it is kind of weird that they met with White House officials to Greece some wheels there m h. And then of course, Charlie dat and start drawing some red strings between uh, that meeting and those loans Apollo Global Management and City Group. Uh and and then just connect the thoughts out to let's say, favorable financial policies that might come up out you know, little stuff too, maybe that the average person wouldn't notice because you don't touch that rarefied air. Right. Uh So those are two Those are two issues that people had, And the Washington Post said that they had on record confirmed that foreign officials were already having water cooler talk with themselves, going hey, okay, so we got this guy over a barrel, how do we leverage him? How can we turn this to our advantage? You know, let's not say blackmail, but you know, how do we how do we get to the kind of a win win now that he's financially weak. That's exactly what security clearance is supposed to figure out first. So this doesn't even talk about Russia. We don't even we can't. We don't have time to talk about Christian and Russia. There's an episode for another day. I don't know, well the big deal there. We can just say this, we know that Kushner met with foreign officials with out letting the groups know, they're supposed to know when someone at that level is meeting with foreign officials, right, yeah, that's the other thing. If you are meeting, so if you're meeting as a representative of US policy, right, this is not your college friend or whatever. You are meeting with someone and you're saying, Hey, quid pro quo because I can get some stuff done. I know just what you like. You know what I like. I like favors to you know what I mean, that kind of thing that's your You are supposed to tell the National Security Council, like, hey, I'm going out on the geopolitical town, might be out late, might get in some trouble, don't wait up, uh, in which case they would say, what the hell is wrong with you? Right? Yeah, please please stay inside, Mr Koshner. So how did he get a clearance? Then that's the question. Well, I think you know, we've been tipping our hand a little bit at that the present it in his in his wisdom, or in in the power that the companies that position was able to ram it through. He insisted. He ordered it to be done, despite advisors, uh you know, advising him to the contrary, and you know, it really makes me think about you know, one of the first things they teach you in like high school Civics class, uh, for whatever reason, whether it's like to make you feel better about this weird experiment called, you know, democracy that we have is this idea of checks and balances. And I know that's more about lawmaking, but at the end of the day, when you have a president who is gonna throw all tradition by the wayside, is going to throw all kind of you know, pre established precedents and and uh, decorum out the window, checks and balances kind of go out the window too. I mean, you literally have someone that is is able to order someone like a king to to do a thing that everyone you know who has more experience probably knows to be not a good idea. That kind of absolute power is Uh, here's a corrupting force, right and dangerous. That's how he checks and balances are so important regardless of where uh people might find themselves as individuals on the political spectrum. Right, and the president over rides all these concerns. His White House counsel says, don't do it. The White House Chief of Staff is like, bro, don't do it, sleep it off, you know what I mean, wake up and and and have a look around. Uh In at the dawn of a bright new day. And the day after, White House Council Don McGann says, I'm going on record, you just can't do it. There's too many conflicts of interest. Trump does just what you described, nol Uh. Then President Trump says this he forces it through this clearance, and that meant that he ordered his son in law. Again, there's a familial relationship to get access to top secret information over the objections of prety much everybody who had actually worked in this space. Not a good look. You know, Like you're you Let's say you own the fire station and you say, all right, I want my cousin Ernie to be the chief firefighter. And they're like, oh, well, has Ernie ever put out a fire or fontifier? It's like, well, not so much put out, but he loves fire. He's the man for the job. And they can't do anything because you own the firehouse. It's not a perfect example firehouse subs. Uh So this is this is problematic, you know, And I guess if we're being fair, you have to say, if he's let's leave the nepotism to one side. If you are the senior advisor to the President of the United States, it's it's functionally impossible to do that job without a clearance, right, Like, I've never done it, But I assume you run into a lot of classified stuff. How are you going to advise the president on classified stuff if you're not read in? Yeah, that's a good point. Do you just go off vibes? Well, I can't really make out most of this black highlighter, but Mr President, I would recommend also remember how he said earlier that someone accidentally leaves something out there. Clearance can be declined or revoked. If they can prove you intentionally decided to leave stuff out, you might be on the way to prison. Pushner did that, or his legal team did, and his team said the omissions weren't oversight. And here's their explanation. This is true. This is on record. We can quote chapter and verse from the Independent here by Rachel Revez, his lawyer said, one of the staff members accidentally hit the send button too early. That's what happened. Really, Oh man, you guys ever had a moment like that where you wish you could undersend something or you had an email address one letter wrong, or you accidentally had an attachment that wasn't right, or you know, a thread that contained information that you shouldn't be sending to this person. I've done with my phone multiple times, hitting you know, until I go down the next thing and it just goes go, Well, I had this weird auto tat feelings I'm getting yeah, yeah, yeah, especially to pay on the email process. You're using your platform, you're using because someone let you unsend things, or you can get an extension that does it, and other ones are like a gotcha. Here's the thing though, when even I don't know how it works on every platform, but on outlook, if you unsend something, which you can within a certain period of time, it will still have a remnant of like sober and so unsent an email tea, It's like, what was that about? Man? You know, I want to know what did you do? I've seen that. But usually um, like if that happened between us, and most of the folks who work with might just text of them like what's it going on on? But but in this situation, in this deep water, that feels like a weird um narrative, right, not saying it's not true. It just feels, especially people who are already distrustful of Kushner, it feels like it's just even fishier, right, fishier than an aquarium. This guy, they're saying. But at this point we've got to say, we're kind of yeah, we're singing amount because again, this is a great recent example of how this stuff can go wrong. There's a whole laborntine system meant to stop people with conflicts of interest from getting through right to the beating heart of American secrecy. But Pushner is not the only example. It's a matter of fact, I say, maybe we pause for word from our sponsors and zoom out a little and look at the rest of the playing field. We're back, okay, we we are kind of we were kind of dunking on Jered Kushner. But uh, that's not the only problem. There's been going on for more than a decade. There's a lot of corruption in the system. It's like reading about this, fellow listeners will make you wonder, what if you already have a security clearance and just don't know. In two thousand thirteen, UM the news organization Politico found that UH found the following was gonna quote from because it's very excellent reporting. Um quote. The process of conducting background checks for national security clearances is riddled with extensive fraud that can't be adequately combating, sort of like how history is riddled with unexplained events. This h these this processes are riddled with extensive fraud and can't be adequately combative. Yeah, that's right, I think the again not picking on Trump here, but that example is a perfect example of it of not being able to do anything about it. So this there was a lot of soul searching that happened after these uh, incredibly sensitive leaks and whistleblowers. You know, like Edward Snowden comes out now living in Russia, he got a security clearance and it allowed him to leak all this in food to the public. So people started investigating their own clearance process and what they found was really frightening. Is where we have to go to a guy named Inspector General Patrick McFarlane and McFarland found that sixteen hundred different background check reports were fabricated by guess what, one employee who was herself hired on a faulty background check. This is like that that one lab in lab Tech who was doing all the U bad DNA test right, yeah, or it reminds me of um. One of the morticians are one of the people that were supposed to be disposing of bodies in one way, but they were just piling them up in the back because they didn't have to spend any more money and they were making tons of money Georgia. Yeah. Despicable. Despicable. So somebody was just going, uh, fiddle d D. I'm sure that's fine. I spoke to their employer and it was great. I didn't have time to pull their financials, but I did make my quota of X number of checks right over y period of time. It might have been something like that. Uh. And the weird thing is that employee who made up more than background checks was herself hired on a screwed up background check. The system is compromised. I'm telling you, Yeah, that's a problem. That's a problem, you guys. I always I always think about Edward Snowden and how like, you know, it's like this guy got a background check to leak all this stuff, But wasn't it more like he had a crisis of conscience and he was like I gotta I gotta leak this stuff. I thought that's how the thing went. I imagine that that kind of thing could happen, and that's way more dangerous. So, like, these background checks are meant to prevent hiring someone who may at some point have a crisis of conscience and want to leak information. Right to have that lifelong loyalty, Right, even if you don't always agree with everything your government does, you're going to honor the agreement that you made right the charge you took on. So these classifications, like a background investigation might not be considered current. You get reinvestigated for the top levels of stuff on a rotating basis, I think. But mainly the idea is that you are meant to hold those secrets for the rest of your waking days, right even after you've gone through the debrief process, even after you've been retired for twenty five years turned into a weird robot somehow. Have you talked about the consequences for for breaking one of these clearances? I mean, it varies, I'm sure, and I know that's kind of what we're talking about. You know, when you leak classified information, But is there are there worst penalties associated with like breaking that confidence when you've been obviously your clearance will be revoked. But uh, is there like some sort of standard kind of table of consequences that we can see. Yeah, well they're not guaranteed to uh last forever, but you can do stuff that will make your clearance automatically revoked. Right. Um, and then if you and everybody is supposed to report you like you're watching each other. Right, So there's there's a lot of stuff that could be an accident to you know, somebody's going home, right, they leave a facility and they've got a briefcase with them, and they legitimately just forgot that one of the things in that briefcase was supposed to be under lock and key in a secured area, right. Or you know, here's another one that's a weird one. What if you're just you're on a base somewhere, you're walking around. You see a piece of paper just laying on the ground in the hallway. Human error happens. Do you pick it up? Are you do you have the classification to read it? Where where do you take it? It's a it's like it's it's like the emails I Heart sends us the fake phishing emails that trying to trick out the emails. I don't think people know about this. Our company all the time sends us emails that are phishing attempts, but and they're meant to resemble I heart official communications but be just a little off. They're trying to train us to be able to see phishing attempts. But it's they get us, they don't. I don't know. I don't think they've gotten me yet, but you never know, and then all of a sudden you'll get another email that's like, did we get you for it? I gotta say, though, UM, I have actually avoided being scammed recently because of things that I learned to look for because of those little got you uh moments courtesy of our company. I was trying to sell some stuff on Facebook Marketplace and there was this like Zel scam that UM. I almost fell for it one time. And what ultimately it led me to not fall for it was remembering to look at the U R L of the email that it was coming from. Uh. It was payments Zel payments one five, six, seven three to one at gmail dot com. Oh super legit. Yeah, So I feel you, Matt and I've always felt a little a little screwed with about those two, but it this did kind of and then I and then it kept happening. I was telling someone on Facebook marketplace, and then I kept having like the same type of scams come up, and I was just like, ha, got you. Well, uh, you know that's that's good to hear that it has had some use in uh, some impact, because otherwise it just feels like such a weird flex to me. I think I'm reading this email and I I would like to say I never get caught. Um. There was one that had me on a bit of a snipe hunt. It was something about vacation time, and so I didn't click on anything. I just went into the place where I figure out vacation time and I my real response, like my genuine response, was do I take vacations? When's the last time I did? That? Is that you ever logged a vacation day? Ever? Did this come from? Did this come from the top angrily texting? But the moral of the story is every floor paper you find out the Pentagon is a trap. So do not pick the world of the stories. Everything is a trap. Life is one big escape room, a bar and our own We're all the admiral act bars of our own story. This of the party where no one gets out alive. Um took it in a weird direction at the end, but I like, I like what we're building. So they also found this investigation. They also found that people who were suspected of fraud couldn't get suspended. And it's so weird because one individual got a job doing background checks for a federal agency while they were facing appending criminal case for falsifying background checks at another place. It's like, it's like a big banker who's done some financial crimes gets consulted on huge bailouts because they know the system the best. You know, we need to do, guys, we need to automate this thing with an algorithm and an AI and it does all the human background checks. It's the only way we're ever going to be able to trust a background check again, is if a computer. Right, Well, we're already this, you know. Honestly, that's my favorite. That's one of my favorite background checks. Click on all the traffic lights, click on all the stop sides. You know what I mean, proof you're not a robot. I feel so validated when that happens. I'm like, still got it. I love walking on the leg and breathing with the lung, you know what I mean, just the one. I'm being serious though, I'm imagining a system that's like this human is not fit to serve our government machine. Like, oh what what we have obtained second hand cellular phone footage of Derek Smith in college hitting a bong and commenting on the colors of music. I mean, that's clo disqualified. Uh he will not work at the Pentagon Subway. I don't know if they still have this suthing. So then it has to start manufacturing, you know, automatons to do the as jobs and then to do the government jobs. It's going to hit the balld. You talk about music both both. Let's phase out the human part entirely. Let's just have let's also have miscreant robots. Uh So, look, you can see there are some problems with this. They go across administrations. Part of it is due to the enormity and the necessity of bureaucracy, right, And that's why this kind of stuff is easy to not pay attention to. But there are tons of people, literal tons of people who are working in this field, and they're doing they're not really doing it for the money. They're doing it because they're good at it, and they're doing it because the security of the country is important. This goes the same for any other country, by the way, United Kingdom, China, you name it. The systems are different, but they're ultimately designed to do the same thing. Uh. And I was wondering maybe we end on finally talking a little bit about Q clearance. Not the awesome show by our pal Jake Hanrahan, but shout out to you, Jake, Q clearance. That's what the you know, the Q and on entity was like, I don't know what's going on. I got Q clearance. Now, Ben Minders saying is that Q clearance is just a way to designate or a shorthand for top secret clearance. Is that right or wrong? Yeah? Yeah, you're on base. It's um it's the Department of Energy clearance that is analogous the top secret clearance, got it, okay, Department of Energy. Yeah, nuclear weapons. But they just wanted to be different, right. Uh. This Q clearance is uh is something you've probably heard of if you're if you have read about Q and on at all, Um and you can get in the weeds. You know, it's not a huge secret how it works or what it is, because you know, it's got a Wikipedia page. Check it out. But in pop culture and the world of online colts, this thing attained legendary mythological status. Uh. And it dates back to six A guy named Peter Benchlet writes this novel called Q Clearance, and it's a satirical novel. It's a comedy about how weird the government is. Uh. And then of course we all know what happened. Then that's when Q came along and started posting on four Chan and eight chan and given all kinds of top secrets about the storm because it was coming. Yeah, it may it may have come and gone. We're not quite sure it might still be coming. Um, although you know, Q and on kind of coverage in the larger media does seem to have waned a good bit. I imagine that there are communities and pockets on the Internet that are still pretty active in this stuff. Right, Oh yeah, I bet you're right. I mean, so Q not Q Clearance, but Q online claimed to have tremendous closeness with the Trump administration and the inner circle of that administration. But this was later proven probably to be false because a lot of the so called predictions simply didn't come to pass um and it became almost a surrealist game at a time. You know, people were treating it as it choose your own adventure version of conspiracy theory. And you know, it was probably hilarious to the ninety two thousands something people who have a real life QUE clearance. They're probably thinking, I wish my job was that cool, you know, I wish my job is that cue. But but this is the problem. It's true, clearances are getting falsify. Uh, they're being given out despite serious problems with the people who are being cleared. And that spells danger for the United States. Given that the United States is a powerful and dangerous country. That spells danger for every person on earth. No hyperbole. So, uh, what's to be done? I think we have to ask our fellow listeners, Um, folks, let us can you solve it? Can you solve it for us? Should just one person be in charge of clearing everybody? That's it? Everything clear everyone? Just one person gets in there, they know everything, they clear everyone, then we all know all the secrets that we'd all know too much, and then we'd all be driving around and see, that's my thing. I've said it before, I'll say it again. Secret secrets are no fun. Secret secrets hurt someone. Um, we could if we could just take that approach, you know, maybe we'd all be happier. And I think it's just magically morph into a utopian kind of situation. I'm not checking this so I I'm just trying to figure it out off the top of my head. If there are okay, we just take the number of days in a year, right, we divide five point one million by the number of days and year. Then that person, if they didn't take vacations, would have to clear four teen thousand, no, thirteen something thousand people a day perfect he's done light work. Well, I mean Meta is about to be you know, well, I don't know Meta there. Maybe they'll be fine, but you know, if something goes real wrong with Meta, we could just put all their stuff, all their AI and all their whatever they're working on. Just put it ton of companies who want a piece of that pipe. Because the government sustains the cost for these investigations regardless of how it works out. And folks, we know it's a very high level. Look, we are not active in that in that sphere, but we are fascinating. We think that the average member of the public should know more about this and about the problems with the current system, so let us know how it can be fixed. If you got any funny war stories that you're comfortable sharing about background investigations and how they did or did not go the way you thought, we can't wait to hear it. We try to be easy to find online. Correct. You can find this on Twitter. You and find us on Facebook, and you can find us on YouTube with a handle conspiracy stuff. We also have a telephone number you can reach us at. Yes, the number is one eight three three st d w y t K. It's a voicemail system. You've got three minutes. Give yourself a cool nickname so we know who you are, but you're also anonymous. That's the that's the perfect way to do it. We will give you the appropriate clearance just by calling in, so you don't have to worry about that, and uh say whatever you want. Just let us know if we can use your voice and message on the air. If you don't like talking on the phone, why not instead type it all out in a good old fashioned email. 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