Poof. All right, Matt, we're coming in hot. You gotta tell you, man, this one still wears me out. Let me let me just ask you on the off chance you solved this since we recorded this classic episode, Matt, what happened to Aidolf Hitler? Quicksand Yeah, nobody expected it, not even him, especially not him. Now, Yeah, he was focused on other things. But joking aside, there does seem to be some questions remaining when it comes to what actually happened to Aidolf Hitler? Was the skull actually his? Did he actually go down in the bunker or the way history tells us. We're gonna explore these questions and these theories in this episode. Um, we will be talking about Hitler, so prepare for that. But it'll be a good compo from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to up. Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. My name isn't all they call me Ben? You are you that makes this stuff? They don't want you to know. We're back right in the studio. Yeah, we're back in the studio we returned from our sojourn to Brooklyn. You can hear that episode the live when we did in full on our website. Stuff they don't want you to know dot com or wherever you find podcasts, especially Apple podcasts. Yes, especially Apple podcast at that hot new rebrand and uh, we had a heck of a time doing it. We hope to do more live shows in the future. So as a side note, if you would like us to come to your town, let us know so we can show our bosses that they should send us on a few trips, offer us up a couch to crash on. We would be very much appreciative of that kind of gesture. And or of five star hotel whatever you if you happen to be a big wig and you are five star hotels, you know six of you got him under I think four and a half is the best I've ever done. Well, I can't disclose a lot of my travel circumstances. I like to keep that underground. And what we're talking about today, speaking of overly labored segues UH concerns one of the most famous allegations of underground travel in modern history. This is a story about a titular incident in World War Two in April, when the Fjura of Germany a k a. Adolf Hitler died. For decades since, this single event has remained one of the most discussed moments of the entire war. He's in a bunker, right, Yes, it was a five star bunker. He probably actually it was. Yeah, we have some of the we have some of the architecture about actually, you know what I'm remembering, and we'll get to this later in the episode. It wasn't that great, not a five star not. I don't think it was a Michelin. I don't think that Michelin started facilities. As far as food goes, it was. It was generally spoiler alert, an unpleasant place, but mostly secure from shelling. Yeah. Well, in theory, the death of Hitler signaled a tremendous blow to the right, and even today, historians continue to debate about the nature and degree of this blow because there's this big question. Was Hitler at this point genuinely a good tactician or had he become increasingly unhinged in irrational due to drug use And now we're talking about like emphetamins. He was hopped up on goofballs. Yeah, and at the time, you know, in World War Two we hear a lot about use of methamphetamines, perhaps by Hitler or Saxis powers. But as we examined in our previous episodes on drug use in the military, amphetamines were something that everybody was interested in, you know. And thank you, by the way to everybody who wrote in in the listener mail episode that you Nolan, you Mett did where we actually had a caller, uh call in and talk about drugs in the military. And if you haven't listened to that episode, please check it out. It was tremendously education. It's very kind. Ben. It was not a bad effort for for us being without our our compatriot. Oh I was. I was listening to it on a plane, and I think there were there was some pretty funny moments that kind of creeped out. The ladies saying next to me, but you know, you made a nice appearance where you sort of possessed me for a second and you caused my nose to bleed and me to spout gibberish and I'm sorry by their spirit. Yeah, I've also brought some clean x is into the studio in case we have something like that happened again. So was the loss of Hitler largely a symbolic problem? Some historians have asked? And you can find exhaustive and we do mean exhaustive biographies of Adolf Hitler and and analyzes of the right in World War Two all over the place. If you'd like to learn more about his life. We can recommend a couple of places to find some excellent info. Yeah. One particularly good one is Hitler The Terminal Biography by d Harlan Wilson. Also episode thirty seven of the World War Two podcast The Beginning of a multi episode series on Hitler by Ray Harris jr. Um is another good one, and for a particularly refreshing dive of the deep variety into not just Hitler, but the Nazi Party at large in general and more, check out our peer podcast Stuff You Miss in History Class, which I produce great folks, great folks. So I feel like we're kind of burying the lead here, guys. It's for twenty It's April today, which not only is a day for celebrations of people of infeable persuasions naphetamine thing right, No, Uh, it's also Hitler's birthday, and you know, seriously, yeah, yeah's birthday. I didn't know that. Oh, or it would yeah, I guess if he was still alive, he would have celebrated his anniversary of his birth yes, which you know, I we we did not plan this. It was not something that we're going to do. We're usually record our podcasts yesterday on Wednesday, and it is Thursday. However, we are not talking about his life, nor for the record or wishing him a happy birthday. It's just weird how the world works. Our story starts again, as we said on the day of his death. So let's look at the official story. The room where it happened. The room where it happened. That's a joke for you, Matt, Thanks buddy, I appreciate that very much. Um, it's a it's a whole musical thing. Don't don't worry about Oh, it's the it's the it's a Hamilton's things. I don't, I don't. I only know the I'm not gonna but shot. Yes. Um, So we're going back to the bunker. This is where Hitler and several of his closest associates spent uh pretty much the last stretch of the war, especially Hitler, who was just there ensconced. I love that word ben in the funeral bunker, which is and it was an air raid shelter in Berlin. We talked about it being resistant somewhat at least to shelling and other large bombs. It was called the fuer bunker. Yes, yes, those Germans Man, they really have those like words that are just so absurdly literal. That's the bunker. And I love the way that the German language, German speakers in the audience you already you already know this, and I hope you realize how much non German speakers appreciate and are mystified by this propensity in German or practice, I should say, to make a word by just smashing all these other words together. You know, it's it's startling to me, and I stand in awe of your nunciation. And uh, I'm much like thirty three Thomas Street. This bunker was meant to contain everything you need to survive for quite a while, especially airborne attacks, chemical weapons. Even however, if a an atomic bomb was dropped on this thing, it wouldn't have fared so well. Probably yeah, well, of course this wasn't designed to because what's an atom bomb, right? It isn't designed a big giant thing that nuclear material wipes out populations, drops on. I also used to do hip hop tracks with the guy who called himself Adam Bomb, but he spelled it yeah a d A related to Adam amp. You know. I never we We were mostly colleagues. They had different last uh So the Fewer Bunker was part of a larger Right Chancellory Bunker, and it was composed of two parts. There's the Vore Bunker or Forward Bunker, and that was completed in nineteen thirty six. The Fewer Bunker, the Hitler Clubhouse for lack of a more respectful term, was completed in nineteen forty four. It was about eight feet lower in the ground, which which becomes important in just a second. We were talking about the five star stuff. So this complex was originally only intended to be a temporary air raid shelter because during a lot of his career, Adolf Hitler didn't spend that much time actually in Berlin. However, is the situation in Germany worsened. By January of nine, it became Hitler's primary residence, and it was not a great place because it was below the water table, so it's always kind of damp. If you want to see a really, really, really well done dramatization of this period in Hitler's life, check out the movie Downfall. You may know it if you haven't seen it by this meme clip where it's this part where I think Hitler's generals or whatever are telling him that basically all is lost and then nothing can be done, and he's got this map and he just kind of like freaks out and gives them all a really intense dressing down. And there are just all these amazing versions where they changed the subtitles to be about can you remember particular Yeah, one was about backwards compatibility on video games. Maybe one about like Apple removing the headphone jack or something like that. Stuff like that. It's like they basically very lead tell him this news and he sort of twitches for a little bit and then just kind of just loose it and pounds on the table. But anyway, I digress. That's that's a great film that very much describes visually the period that we're talking about here. Recommended highly. Yeah, the situation Noel described and Downfall from a visual perspective is pretty much spot on. They had to run pumps continuously to remove groundwater. They had electricity provided by a diesel generator. They used well water for the supplies. They did have in the beginning communications equipment and a tele x telephone switchboard, army radio set. I would imagine they had to go dark though after a while, or there was no one to communicate with. Yeah, as conditions deteriorated. Uh, they ended up receiving much of the war news from British broadcast radio BBC broadcast and then via courier towards the end, where someone would hear something from the BBC and then like run across the garden and knock on the door. And and as Matt mentioned, uh, people it wasn't just Hitler in here, right, there were other people. Yeah, there are all kinds of officials, other staff that lived at the larger complex itself. Aside from Hitler, there were occupants in the bunker like itself at one time or another. So you're talking about Goring, Herman, Goring, Heinrich, Hmmler, the I don't know what you call them. Some of the main players in the Nazi party, his like posse, his inner circle. That's exactly what it is, and of course Hitler's longtime partner Eva Braun. As you can imagine, the psychic energy in the bunker was pretty desperate at times, super intense, like we were saying in downfall, kind of showing that feeling. Um and more and more occupants left as conditions got worse and worse and worse. Surrounding them as forces, Allied forces, Russian forces, Um, they're all kind of squeezing in towards the bunker itself. Yeah, let's talk about outside the bunker, because it's just as important to our story today as what occurred inside. So by early Germany's military was on the verge of complete and total collapse. The Nazis felt that the battle for Berlin would be the final battle of the war in Europe. So around thousand soldiers of Germany's Army Group B were surrounded and captured on the eighteenth of April, leaving the path completely open for American occupation of Berlin. American forces to reach and invade Berlin um by April eleven, the Americans crossed the Elba sixty two miles to the west of Berlin, and then by the sixteenth Soviet forces to the east, crossed the Odor and commenced the Battle for the Sea Low Heights, which was the last major defensive line protecting Berlin on that particular side. And by the nineteenth of April, the German forces were in full retreat from Cielo Heights, so this means there was no front line. Berlin was bombarded by Soviet artillery for the first time on his birthday, Hitler's birthday of April. On the one, Hitler ordered an s S general named Felix Steiner Uh to take his detachment and moved to rescue Berlin. But by the evening of the same day, Soviet tanks reached the outskirts of the city. That is a strong SS name general name, Felix Steiner just just very imposing sounding. Yes, absolutely so. The next day the two Hitler learned that stein Steiner had not obeyed his order and for the first time, and this this really calls back to that moment in Downfall, he declared that the war was lost. This is when he consulted his doctor, Dr. Verner Hass on the most reliable method of suicide, and doctor told him that he should use both a cyanide pill and a bullet self administered in that order, right, Yeah, And and this is when Hitler's paranoia really starts to ramp up to the highest levels that has been um because you know, I I can only imagine that being at that top level, you have some thoughts about the people around you that can border own crazy maybe, And he was really feeling that the people closest to him were traitors and he didn't trust anybody. Well, can you imagine two going from being the head han show that can do whatever he wants, get whatever he wants, order whatever he wants to be done to whomever he chooses, two living in an underground subterranean cube, you know, with your closest friend of these I guess, And can you imagine the paranoia that would set in and just the isolation that would set in, Not to mention in if you're geeked up out of your mind on amphetamines, your major generals just just disobeyed your order outright categorically did not do his job. So here's the Here are a couple of examples. When Herman Goring learned about this suicide conversation Hitler had had with his doctor, he sent a telegram Jadolf Hitler and asked for permission to take over the leadership of the Reich, and he he had. Goring felt he had precedents because in nineteen forty one, Hitler had named Goring his successor. So Hitler's secretary, a guy named Martin Borman, convinced his boss that Goring was planning a coup. In response, Hitler told Goring he would be executed unless he resigned, and then he sacked, going from all of his offices, ordered his arrest. And then he learned through the BBC that Heinrich Hmmler had offered to surrender to the Western Allies. Can you imagine? So all of these you know, thoughts that he's having are in some ways coming true right the The offer, by the way, was declined by the Allies. Himmler apparently had implied to the Allies that he had the authority to negotiate a surrender, and Hitler considered this treason. He was beyond furious. He ordered Himmler's arrest. Was he furious? That was worth it? That was worth it? Uh? He was, he was furious. Uh. He not only ordered Himmler's arrest, but Himmler had a representative from the s s who was at the bunker, and Hitler had him executed, talk about blaming the messenger the representative. So by the seven April, as we said, Berlin was cut off from the rest of Germany. On April twenty nine, Hitler married Eva Braun, and upon learning the fate of his ally Benito Mussolini, whose body was desecrated after his execution, was he dragged behind like a carriage of some sort, Yeah, I believe. So he requested the Sinai capsules from his doctor, remarking that he would not be made a spectacle. Side note. A side note here, just to give a little inside into the character of the dictator he need. He wanted to make sure the capsule worked, so he ordered his doctor has to use one on his own dog, blonding and he at least it wasn't like his daughter or something right, but it didn't make an apologies for Hitler. It did work, the dog died and Hitler was satisfied. He went to bed, which brings us to the day of On April, General Wilhelm Kitl reported that all forces that could have rescued Berlin had either been encircled or forced onto the defensive Soviet forces were less than six feet from this half star bunker, and then the commander of the Berlin Defense Area told Hitler that the forces that remained would run out of immunit ammunition that night and the fighting would eventually come to an end less than twenty four hours from then. So imagine the scene. Hitler, two of his secretaries, and his personal cook had lunch, after which he and Eva said farewell two members of the staff and the other occupants at the time that included Bourman, Joseph Garrible's his family, the secretary's military officers. Around two thirty, Adolph and Ava went into Hitler's personal study. Witnesses later reported hearing a gunshot. About an hour later, at three thirty, Hitler's valet, a guy named Heinz Ling, have Bourman and his side. They opened the door. Ling smelt burnt almonds, which are a common observation made in the presence of prussic acid, which is the liquid form of hydrogen cyanide, and another official entered the study and found lifeless bodies on the sofa. Ev Braun was to Hitler's left, slumped away from him. People stated that Hitler sat sunken over blood dripping out of his right temple, and that he had shot himself with his own pistol a walthor PPK. According to heinz ling Eva's body had no physical wounds that were visible, and it looked like from her face that she died of cyanide poisoning. His bodyguard, Rochus Mich, was one of the first people to see the dictator's corpse, and he also ended up being one of the last two living people left at the bunker. He fled the bunker and May the second only hours before the Soviet army seized it. He met up with other soldiers. They traveled north through the u Bon tunnels. They were taking prisoner when the Soviets caught them. He was brought to a prison in Moscow called Lubyanka, where he was tortured in an attempt to extract information regarding what happened to Hitler. Because you see Stalin Joseph Stalin was extremely interested in learning more about hit There's fate and theories about as possible escape and because of this, roches Mish spent eight years and forced labor camps. His account largely confirms the official narrative, but that's just one guy's account, right and it and a lot of people you know still don't believe the story. But why we'll answer that after a word from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. Almost immediately after the news of Hitler's death, conspiracy theories proliferate. It. We're talking the same month, were the same couple of weeks. Like wildfire, they spread. This view is overwhelmingly dismissed in the public sphere and in academia, but they are tantalizing little nuggets of of information. They continued to be strewn about and emerged, casting doubt on the official story. Here is one example. Um a secret memo from FBI Director J Edgar Hoover declared that quote, American Army officials in Germany have not located Hitler's body, nor is there any reliable source that will say definitely that Hitler is dead. At the Potsdam conference, US President Harry S. Truman s Stalin of Hitler had died, and Stalin said nope. I'm kidding. He didn't actually say nope, but he said no. And the thing is that Soviet intelligence often changed their official stance on Hitler's fate, and because of this ambiguity. They created a large amount of uncertainty for decades afterwards. There are also a number of FBI documents that came out. You can find them at the vault dot FBI dot gov. You may have heard of this before, um And these documents are alleged sightings of Hitler that happened after his supposed death. Usually he's wearing like a Hawaiian shirt and a little fedora and like like like glasses with the nose and the mustache attached. Those are yeah, those are more recent, and he has that T shirt that says definitely not h Yeah, yeah, yeah, always have the arrow pointing out. But these documents, they range from from you know, all the way to the seventies and then later. But most of them are accounts of someone calling in or making contact with the FBI or some other agency and saying, I'm I know where Hitler is. He's here in Argentina, or he's here and then Puerto Rico or in these other places. Um And it's just a recording of someone saying that they have that information. And we need to put in a brief word about this sort of stuff. So one problem that law enforcement across the planet runs into repeatedly is the idea of someone seeing a random person and thinking that they're definitely, you know, the Zodiac Killer, the son of Sam tupacor perfect example. And the problem with that is in many cases, not only can these not be verified, but often not maybe not the majority of time, but often there are people who were just reporting it because they kind of want attention, not to mention if you have an actual like man hunt since you situation. Like I recently watched the O J. Simpson dramatization Non von FX with Cuba Gooding Jr. And there was a part where when o J was on the run and the Bronco people kept calling like saying, I saw it, definitely see o J. And it was just clogging up the lines to the point where like the person that actually had information couldn't even get through because people, like you say, either are jerks and are just trying to like prank people, or they just really want attention and want to be like the guy that brought down Hitler. Yeah, there's excitement right in thinking that it might be. And so one of the reasons that the FBI did keep track of this all the they did conclude that these accounts or these reports cannot be verified. They had an interest in keeping tracking this because of the situation with Hitler's body. Yes, okay, according to the official story, what happened with Hitler's the the Hitler's body, both Ava and Adolf, they were taken from the bunker up to the surface, um and they were set on fire. Yeah, cremated right per his wishes, exactly, And because he didn't want his body anything, He didn't want anything to happen to his body after the Soviets got there, and he didn't want to get the Mussolini treatment, right, And because of that, because it was burned and may have even been hit from the shelling, possibly once or twice or however many times. There's no way to confirm any of that. There were other bodies that were also cremated there. There was a whole stack of bodies that ended up roughly in the location where the Hitler's were, where their remains were, and it wasn't really known for quite a while, in the time frame after his their deaths and after the remains were collected by the Soviets. So they're all kinds of forensic issues here. And let's let's also keep in mind that almost immediately after World War Two, the uneasy alliance that existed between the Soviet forces and I guess more of the West, right, like the European allies in the US. Almost immediately this uneasy alliance began to disintegrate. This was much more of an enemy of my enemy is my friend kind of situation, right, what about a friend of me of my friend of me? And then that would take us back to the bunker. But yeah, fret of me is a friend of me is a pretty accurate term for the interaction between these people. So the Soviet government having control over a lot of this stuff and already launching into a rivalry. And this is not to put this geopolitical cold war stuff all on the Soviets end there. There were definitely aggressions on both sides of this new world order. But another, as as Null said, a nugget of information emerged recently and uh, you know, decades later and set the Internet on fire because the Soviet government, after multiple changes in their their end of the official story and ambiguities and contradictions, allowed a an archaeologist and bone specialist named Nick Bellotoni to test the fragments of skull that the that were kept in the Russian Federal Archives in Moscow and purportedly were you know, the remains of Hitler's skull that Nick Cage was o piste when he found that out, He's like, I thought I had Hitler skull in my collection. I'm sure there will several people who wrote strongly worded letters to eBay. So the the thing that Dr bell Atoni found out was that when he took samples of the skull and gave them DNA testing, found that it definitely wasn't Hitler unless Hitler was a woman below the age of forty. It wasteresting. It was a different skull. I'm gonna say it was a different skull. I'm gonna agree with you. Well, yeah, and it goes back to that whole idea that there were a lot of body strewn about in that area where they picked up you know, where the Soviets picked up the remains for testing. Um, you know, it was just gonna happen probably, And and here's something interesting, Okay, Neither former Soviet nor current Russian officials claimed that the skull was the main piece of evidence proving it was Hitler, so we have to throw some water on this one. Instead, they would cite these jawbone fragments and two dental bridges that were found, and these items were shown to Hugo Blashke, who was Hitler's dentist. That's the thing about being a dictator, you have a you have an entourage of people who just did one thing for you, right, And so Hugo the dentist, and his dental assistant UH, person named Kathy Hauserman UH, and then a longtime dental technician named Fritz Eckman all confirmed that the dental remains, the bridge, the bridges belonged to Hitler and Eva Broad and the skull fragment itself, and it sometimes gets glossed over in the stories about it's not Hitler's skull. The skull fragment was found a year later in n when the Soviets were investigating rumors of Hitler survi evil because for a long time Stalin was obsessed with this, and Stalin definitely had an obsessive personality. So we can say that maybe that part of the story of Hitler surviving or faking his death, maybe that part of the story is a little sensationalized, but there are still clear problems with the official narrative, and even today Hitler would have been And if you want to see X rays of Adolf Hitler's jaw and pictures of a recreated version of the jaw bone when they were doing testing to figure out if this truly was Hitler's jaw bone, UH searched the adontological identification of Adolf Hitler. There's an entire document here that goes over everything and includes images of everything we just talked about. Why do you think Stalin had such a band his bondet about this whole business. You think he just felt like out dictated. That's an interesting question. And he was definitely an obsessive man, obsessive in terms of personality, perhaps two the level of a mental disorder. But then there's also the very interesting argument that one cannot be a dictator without some sort of cognitive anomaly, right exactly. And also we can't forget that he had access to information that did not exist in any way whatsoever, not only in the public sphere in the Soviet Union, but even in governmental levels in the West. So he saw a lot of problems with the official story. And as more and more of this information emerged across the gulf of time and space. Uh, More and more people began to question whether Adolf Hitler actually died and began asking what if? We're gonna ask that question too after a little sponsor break. So what if? This, Ladies and Gentlemen, is the part of the show where we explore some of the speculation regarding alternate narratives of Hitler post World War Two. I'd be okay with that. I'm fantastic. I'm glad you're on board. So if if he did somehow escape, where would he have gone? Earlier in the show we mentioned Earlier in the show, we mentioned one of Hitler's officials who said, look, the s is about to hit the f and I don't mean San Francisco. We're gonna run out of ammunition in twenty four hours. That that official also requested for the m time for Hitler to green light them attempting to make a breakout, which would mean that he and the associates and the remaining military would essentially go for a Hail Mary and just try to get through the Soviet encirclement to reconvene with whatever existing forces they could find. Because there were tunnels that were fairly nearby that they could use. There were some airports that possibly they could have accessed, right, So that is one of the big questions. This brings us to what we would call ratlines and paper clips. You see, although the Allies reported that Hitler was indeed deceased, privately, several factions within that coalition doubted the official story. Several figures in Allied intelligence believed Hitler might have actually escaped, and as mentioned before, the Russian leader Joseph Stalin was certain Hitler had actually fled, and he told this to the Americans. So during a visit to the Hague shortly after the war, the commander of the Allied forces, good Old Dwight Ike right, Ike, Yeah, I like Ike Dwight D. Eisenhower told reporters that there was a quote reason to believe Hitler was still alive. Um, the Russian account of what happened after they had seized Hitler's one star bunker was confused and contradictory. And just like bin Laden decades later, there was no body. What's the what's the Latin? First? Show me the body? You have the body? What about show me the money is there a Latin for that. Yes, probably habeas de niro. We will, we will doubtlessly find out. You can write to us directly with the Latin translation of not only show me the money, but your other favorite film catch phrases. So yes, So there were rumors that were circulating that both Hitler and Brown at this time they're both Hitler's had been smuggled out of Germany, and the reported signings of the two coming from all over the world. You know, the FBI and the OSS, which you may know as the predecessor to the CIA, they investigated a lot of these rumors, and there are a lot of places that they may have gone, according to these rumors. One of them is South America. Yeah, And here's the thing. At the time, this was not an absolutely bonkers concept, although the public was largely unaware of the situation. Multiple Nazi officials escaped punishment after the war through several different means due to the hundreds of thousands of German immigrants who lived in the country. Argentina in particular, maintains close ties with Germany and remain neutral throughout much of World War two. In the years after the war, the president at the time one prone secretly ordered diplomats and intelligence officers to establish escape routes so called ratlines, through ports in Spain and Italy to smuggle thousands of former s S officers and Nazi Party members out of Europe, and as many as five thousand Nazis are thought to have relocated to Argentina. One of the major ideas about how this may have happened, how the Hitler's got out it comes. I'm pulling this from Skeptoid, another podcast that covers a lot of these kinds of things, and I would recommend you check it out if you're interested. We're just gonna pull from here. So on May eighth, the German Instrument of Surrender was signed. So this is, you know, a couple of weeks after, like a weekend, a couple of days after Hitler allegedly committed suicide, officially ending the war. This, yeah, officially ends World War two, at least in Europe. And there were remaining German German submarines and several other naval ships that were out at sea at the time, and the submarines in particular were ordered to jettison their ammunition, to operate only on the surface, and to surrender or essentially to any U n port that they could. Now several several of the submarines decided this maybe some kind of diversionary tactic. Maybe the war isn't over. Maybe this is propaganda and they're just trying to get us to, you know, surrender. So one boat, in particular, one submarine, a U boat called U five thirty, it chose to kind of be on its own for a while, almost two months. Where it it took, it took a journey and if you look at the skeptic way thing, it tells you all about exactly where they went. And this is the ship that allegedly dropped off Hitler, the Hitler's according to several stories, because of its route, it took past Argentina right and ultimately it's surrendered to the Argentinian Navy. Isn't that correct? Yes? So the it also not only jettisoned a lot of its equipment, but it's logs. Yeah. So these two missing months are questionable as they exist in the statements that their mouth gave to the Argentineans. So what's the what's the fringe historian accounted this? Matt The account would be that the Hitler's escaped through tunnels, got to an airport that then took them over to the submarine. The submarine then dropped them off in Argentina. And you know that that's like the story. And there are allegedly a couple of people that saw them. I saw some German officials exiting the submarine. Um though, you know, being able to correctly identify which submarine it was. They're all kinds of issues with that. And if you look at the official story from the captain or what, I don't know what you call them, the person who was running the submarine, the commander, uh, the logs their travel, his story of the travel with those that they jettisoned makes sense as far as how much fuel they used, how much fuel they had on board, and where like the route that they took, which doesn't include dropping people off in Argentina if you did the math right. So unless there were some other fuel stop that remains secret, it would be physically impossible even in to reduce some more economical speed for U five thirty to make that trip. Yeah, because of the long amount of time they were traveling extremely slowly deep in the water. So this idea, this ratline stuff was not restricted to Argentina, nor is it a series of allegations. Let's be clear here. The only allegation is that Adolph Hitler was among those who went on these rat lines. Otherwise, it's completely true and it's proven, and in some cases, with the assistance of the Vatican, various officials escaped. German prosecutors who examined secret files from Brazil and chill A also discovered that as many as nine thousand Nazi officers and collaborators from other countries escaped from Europe to fine sanctuary in the South American nations. Brazil took in between fifteen hundred and two thousand war criminals, five hundred to a thousand settled in Chile. Here's an interesting point, Perrone, and I'm so proud of the three of us for getting this far without a don't cry for me, Argentina a vita reference. What's that I'm not following for this reindeer game de one with Madonna? Is it is? And I didn't think it was that bad. Uh. Perrone particularly wanted to recruit Nazis with military and technical expertise, because let's remember, these scientists were doing some top notch rocketry work because we've discussed in previous episodes. So they were like rocket scientists, and they were literally rocket scientists brain surgeons. I don't know if they were brain surgeons. But the guy who who invented the V two rocket for you know, the Nazis also invented the Centurn five rocket that went to the moon, right, remember him? Uh? These uh the thing that prone wanted to do. The reason he wanted these uh, these scientists is because he believed it could help Argentina's progress in these fields. Much like the United States and the Soviet Union. Despite the public righteousness and pretends of pursuing justice, both the US and the USS are scrambled like mad dogs to gain possession of as many Nazi scientists as possible, Like roaches fleeing the blinding light of a forty watt bulb. Yeah, Like like people at a comic convention desperately clawing at each other and trampling one another when someone threw out a copy of Action Comics number one or a two Leader of Mountain Dew. I've seen that happen in person. And or you know, like two massive empires that want to control the world and need every technical little bit of advantage they can get that is much more apt Matthew. Yes, in the US, this was known as Operation paper Clip. And if you'd like to learn more about it, oh, friends and neighbors, have we got a deal for you. You can check out all of our past video and audio episodes on that with a simple Internet search. However, we would be remiss if we did not close on one of the more let's say, controversial theories about the ultimate alleged escape route of Adolph Hitler, and that is, if we could have a drumroll please, Antarctica. Yes, Hitler went to join his ancient aryan underground brothers in Antarctica. Uh, I mean polar bears. That's the original area nation. Polar bears are in the North Pole. These would be penguins. Oh, my bad, I get my poles confused. The the the this ties into the earlier longstanding theory that in factors in something called Operation High Jump. So we'll talk about the less less out there version and then will maybe end on the really really out there version. So the less out there version is that the Allies and the Axis Powers were both exploring Antarctica as sort of an insurance policy to make sure that they could control all of the continents eventually, because we have to remember they are playing a huge live action game of risk, and so the German side and the Axis side wanted to create a land called New Schwapia, and you can actually find this on some of the maps of the top time. The theory here is that a U boat that was out of pocket or was maybe black ops the entire time, ferried Hitler and some other officials to Antarctica, where they began to plan for a third right version, to which I guess technically would be a fourth rich but they did not consult Matt nolan I on the nomenclature. This is widely not accepted by academia, but it goes further. There's also a train of thought amongst people who believe that the Nazi powers discovered, or were at least searching for, as Matt said, an underground race of ancient arians who made their own civilization in anywhere from a subterranean cave system to a hollow earth penguins just so uber penguins, and that these uh that these forces are responsible for multiple UFO sightings in the subsequent decades. Now that's fascinating. Tell me more. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make light by saying they were penguins. I was just trying to make up for not knowing where polar bears live. I'm sorry. No, uh no, please please don't don't beat yourself up here. The idea is the The idea is that it's kind of a take off the concept we've seen before that UFOs, often confused with extraterrestrials, are just classified technology that most people aren't aware of. Right, So the idea here would be that the Nazi Party or the remnants of it, made it to Antarctica, but also managed to preserve some of the secret technology they have been researching. So might this enter into like the sort of trope, sort of James Bondi trope of like secret underground ice layers with death rays and things like that. Oh, absolutely absolutely. At this point, you know, we do have to say that it doesn't seem from what we've encountered, it doesn't seem likely that Antarctica ended up being the final resting place of Hitler. We do know for sure that South America ended up being the final resting place for several members of that same political party. However, we do have to ask, are all these stories Is all this conjecture based on the fact simply that this is one of the most infamous people in history? Or are the holes in the official narrative, which you know indisputably exists, even just in the manner of his death in Berlin? Are these are these holes purposeful propaganda efforts by the Soviet intelligence? Or is there something more to the story. Did Adolph Hitler die by his own hand on April nineteen? In my opinion, it's all about a lack of closure. You have this ancient evil figure that at the Allies and the Soviets are all seeing as like this is the guy. We win if this guy is dead and you you know, allegedly he's dead, but you can't prove it, right, you don't have a body, You don't have a thing to show in the newspaper like here is Hitler's dead body. The evil is defeated. It's the same thing with Osama Bin Lawton. That's I mean, it's why when you have that boogeyman, the only way to get closure is to know for certain that he, you know it, is dead. Well, it's a it's sort of a fascination maybe obsession we have with that kind of closure where you know, so many people really depend on a funeral where there's a body and a casket that you can say that was my people, and now it's he's gone, and we do a thing and say goodbye. Honestly, it's like the antithesis of that in a way, but with that same lynch pen of like proof, like we need to show everyone needs to assemble and see this, accept it, and then we can move on. If you don't have that, there are many that would maybe always look at what we're talking about, there's still a possible jecture. You know, speculation runs wild when you don't have that kind of proof, and we see that all the time with the stories we can. Let's add another aspect here, which is a little bit disturbing from a psychological perspective, but I believe absolutely real and for the more crucial to these considerations, and it is the following. So, the official reasoning of the US government in the assassination of Osama bin Laden and the burial at sea, which I believe is the phrasing they used, was that they did not want a grave site because they did not want to encourage martyrdom, and they did not want to encourage you know, uh attacks or events around that. So would the reasoning be that if there were a a grave for Hitler or a known place of death, that this would become a rallying point for people who shared those views, or even a site of constant uh what's the word defacements, you know, a site of constant um vandalism or destruction by you know, people that hated this man and that had real pain and suffering cause to their families in their life and their family and generations for generations to continue to go back to that place as a you know, I don't know. I'm not saying that people always are going to resort to violence or lashing out, but that's a pretty big one, you know that, And and historically people do resort to violence. No, I know, I know, I like to think the best of people, I guess, but I really do agree that having a site like that could cause problems, could even cause clashes between the current supporters of some of that ideology and people whose lives and families were torn apart by you know what he did. Where the hell do you put it? You know space Antarctica. An Arctica is so isolated it's like diet space. I'm sorry, I did it again. I said Antarctica, Arctica, the Arctic going well. Speaking of thinking the best of people, we want to thank you for checking out the show and we want to hear your opinions. How familiar are you with this concept? I think a lot of people are familiar with Hitler escape theories due to some of the search for Hitler shows that are played on cable television. And what's your take? Is this something to ask some sand to it. If there is something that the official narrative has misled the public on, what is it and why did they do it? Because as we've seen in the course of this show, there are multiple opportunities. Again, I know I'm primarily hitting on Soviet intelligence here, but there are multiple times where the story didn't add up, but not in a way that conclusively proves or disproves rather the official narrative. So write to us, let us know your thoughts. And while we're talking about the best part of the show, which is you. That reminds me it's time for shout at corners. That's right, it's shout out corner at the time and every show where we shout out to you are beloved listeners. The first shout out today goes to Noir Guitar Super on Instagram. Uh nore Guitar Super says, I'd love a shout out dooche cool, thank you. I don't know what. I just said that randomly one day and it's just caught fire. I totally stole it from Bob's Burgers too. I am such a fraud. Um So, I'd love a shout out if possible. I shouldn't say that I didn't really on the Bob's Burgers. It's schedooch. I made it an sh sounds that's not exactly stealing it. Um It was lifted with good intentions, it was inspired. It was inspired by Yes. Um So, I'd love a shout out if possible. Topic suggestion from Noir Guitar Super. Have you ever heard of that Mexican drug dealer who practice black magic, did all sorts of wacky stuff, also a serial killer, Adolpho Constanzo. It gets crazy from the word go emoji. Yeah. I put emoji in parentheses because when I read the comment, I wasn't sure which emoji he meant so I just wrote emoji in parentheses. That was my bad. Well, I'm just gonna insert a unicorn. Fantastic uh. And that's a that's a great topic idea. Uh, Lar guitar super because Adolphin Constanzo is someone that we had looked at a little bit in the past but never done a show on. This is a Cuban American serial killer, drug dealer, and cult leader of a gang called the Narcos Satanist or Lost Narcos Satanicos. Uh. His cult members nicknamed him El Padrino. What what he did was he was participating in in the narco trade, but he began to believe that these magic spells that he was practicing, many of which he he lifted and and sort of twisted from belief system called Polo Maombe, were responsible for the success of these cartels that he worked with, and he started killing people. He had beef with some of the cartels when he said, you know, you will all your success to my dark magic and they said, you know, hey, man, like we like cocaine too, but being kind of crazy. Uh. And then seven members of this powerful cartel h disappeared and they turned up with body parts missing. Come to find this guy would put body parts in a cauldron and participate in cannibalistic black magic. I would love to look into this guy further in a future episode. And by the way, no our guitar Super. While you're waiting. If you haven't done it yet, check out our episode on Narco Saints and check out our interview with Bob Maser of the infiltrator Um. The film with Brian Cranston was based on this guy, Bob Maser, who was an an undercover operative UM and he basically infiltrated the Narco trade that we were talking about. And there's some really interesting stories about Santa Ria and about encounters with some of these types of folks. So that's another another that's a really good call. Thank you, super Guitar for an extremely disturbing topic that I look forward to looking into. The next one comes from Clayton. Clayton says, Hello, guys. I found it amusing that when I started playing the latest episode of a podcast about conspiracies and I found it begin with an ad for a store opening near me? Do they know? Have they found me? Are they near? Who are they? I just thought it was funny given the premise of the show. Well, we think it's funny too, and that's why we're doing it. We think it's hilarious. We're just playing a joke on you. They're not real ads. Don't even worry about it. We're just they're little easter eggs that we hope you find, Clayton, and there's one in this too, so I hope we've noticed. I have a little topic suggestion that I'd like to throw in, just thinking about some of the stuff we just talked about. Jim Jones. Have we done anything on Jim Jones. We've done video video, but we should do a podcast because there's a new book that just came out written by the Peabody Award winning author Jeff Gwen called Jim Jones The Road to Jonestown. That's not actually called Jim Jones The Road is just called the Road to Jonestown. But he did a fabulous interview on NPR with Terry Gross the other week, and there's actually audio tape of the you know, drinking the kool a the flavor, aight, I guess it was. Yeah, yeah, that was some pretty uh, pretty blood curdling stuff. But there's a lot of stuff I didn't know about him and his history, and I think it might be worth exploring. And like the fact that some of his early work was very humanitarian for lack of a better term, and much more in the social justice kind of vein, and only after he sort of went down his own rabbit hole and drank his own kool aid and intelligence exactly. That's true too, But I think I don't know i'd like to do that. That's just that's a personal shout out to to myself. I can't check right now if we've done an audio podcast on it, but I'm pretty sure we did in early early on. We may have. We may have uh that the relationship between intelligence communities and religious leaders is endlessly fascinating. I actually lost sleep earlier this week when I was reading back again on Mary not Marylyn Man. It's a different guy, Charles Manson and uh Paul Crockett, the scientologist miner who saved Texas Watson. So we've got one more shout out here, and it comes to us from from Tyler via email. Tyler says, hey, y'all, big fans, show you help me get through many a long drive. Had a couple of show ideas. First, after this election, all the accusations voting fraud, I'd love to hear about the history of rigged elections. When was the first recorded fixed vote? When was the last fixed vote? Maybe some famous rigged elections. We can definitely look at the third one, Tyler, finding the first one's gonna be tough. Well, some people might also say, show us an example of a non rigged election. Also, I think that an episode about the d s M, says Tyler, would be fascinating. Its history is a tool for social control. The inherent prejudice and the influence of big farm on diagnoses make this a topic. I think you guys, love of thanks stay awesome. And he sent us a follow up message. He said, just realized that I forgot to say. I'm a mental health professional who has worked in the field for more than fifteen years, and I teach mental health diagnostics at a local graduate school. So my love hate relationship with the d s M is not just a flash in the pan. If you'd like to contact me, just respond to this email. Perhaps we could chat on the phone. Yes, I just listened to that episode, So thank you so much to Tyler. Noir guitar super Clayton and to you, Mr brown Man, Chucks, I think it's I think these are all fantastic ideas I've done. He is self ska douche and this concludes gosh, but not the end of our show. Matt Noll and that's the end of this class sick episode. If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can get into contact with us in a number of different ways. One of the best is to give us a call. Our number is one eight three three std w y t K. If you don't want to do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.