What better time than the present for us to introduce this week's classic episode. It's not a ghost story, it's not necessarily um a horror story. It is a horrible loss of a life. But it's a mystery for sure. Yeah it's for me, it's horror mystery because there's so many questions that remain. What happened to Elsa Lamb when she was in that hotel we caught her on camera? How did she end up where she ended up? That's really what this episode is about. That's what this story is about. And there there are Look, I don't want to spoiler this too much, but this thing still has questions surrounding it. So why don't we jump in. Let's learn everything we can and what we know at least as of February, from UFOs to psychic power. Since government conspue receives, history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is no and Ben you are you that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. I want to check in with everybody. We're we're at the end of the week. Today, it's Friday. We need big plans for the weekend. It's almost end of the month. To already almost into February. I feel like this month has achieved some weird form of time control, like it's extended out in my mind to feel like a much longer period of time than it's actually been. Yeah, we've been here a very long time because at the beginning of the month, of course, I like millions of their Americans play Bone Thugs and Harmony first of the month just to get motivated. And it feels like it's been years since I've done that. January has been very long. I was gonna say it feels like it just started. I miss my Michael, Charles y'all. One day, one day, maybe we can we can finally finish that Chick fil A based parody song we wrote about using the melody of Bone Thugs and Harmony. The reason we're talking about time and plans for the weekend and stuff is because you know, we've all been traveling more. We'll be traveling more over this year, especially as a show. And today's episode is about someone who went on their own journey, person named Alsa Lamb on February first, a twenty one year old Canadian in college student named Elisa Lamb vanished while staying at the Cecil Hotel in downtown Los Angeles. Now, this is in the skid Row area of Los Angeles, which is has a reputation for being a bit dangerous um CD if you will, lots of drugs crime in this area. UM that's just something to take note of. She was traveling alone via amtrack and she was taking the bus a lot and she called this her quote West Coast tour. And unfortunately, when this young woman went missing, the cops, the police officers had no leads. The people who were investigating, that is with the exception of a small video, a short snippet of video that they released to the public. And this is a video of Elisa Lamb in an elevator. May I describe it? Yes? Please? In this video released by the l A p D, which at the point the most popular posting, possibly the only one on YouTube, has a whopping seventeen million, four nine thousand and nineteen views. The videos a little under four minutes and it shows this young woman wearing a red hoodie and a black skirt walking into an elevator and proceeding to press all of the buttons for the floors in the middle of the dial of the panel and the elevator, and then sort of standing back against the back of the elevator and waiting for something. We don't quite know what, but the doors to the elevator never close, and this seems to disturb Miss Lamb, and she kind of acts as though she's hiding in a corner, but it's it's not a real sense of imminent fear of something that she sees. It's more of preparing for something to come. On this she huddles back against the back corner of the elevator and then proceeds to kind of peek out of the elevator doors, which are still not closing. It's been about seconds at this point. She makes several very wide steps from inside the elevator out into the hall and then back, repeating these movements almost as if doing some sort of ritual. It's very very unsettling video to watch, honestly, and I recommend you guys search it out and check it out for yourself even now before proceeding with the episode exactly. And we'll have more information about the about the elevator video a little later in the show. Right now, we're still in several weeks later, the public has seen the video. It's out there in the world. And after some complaints about water pressure. On February, hotel maintenance employee named Santiago Lopez hiked a set of stairs to the roof and then climbed the ladder to reach one of four ten foot tall water tanks. He noticed that the hatch on one of these tanks was open, and that is where he discovered a Lisa Lamb, or at least her corpse, floating inside the tank face up. She was nude, but authorities for the record ruled out evidence of sexual assault. And this should be the closure for a tragic but all too common death by drowning these occur every every year in the US and abroad. Instead of became the beginning of a mystery. And here we are, almost four years after the incident with almost no solid answers. So what happened to Alisa Lamb? We're going to explore the numerous theories surrounding surrounding the night of her disappearance and what happened after the discovery of her remains. So let's take a minute to explore the life of Alisa Lamb. Here's what we know. Here are the facts. UM. Her parents immigrated from Hong Kong to open a restaurant in Burnaby near Vancouver, British Columbia, and she was a student at the University of British Columbia. And in January, she went on a solo trip to California, which as we meant when she referred to as her West Coast tour UM and planned stops in San Diego, Los Angeles, Santa Cruz, and San Francisco. UM interviews and posts from Alisa's tumbler blog confirmed that she had difficulties struggling with serious depression that may well have escalated into a bipolar disorder. So, as we mentioned, uh, just a few minutes ago earlier, the local law enforcement released a video of Elissa Lamb the hotel elevator on the night of her disappearance, which also seems to be around the time of her uh you know, the night of her death or within several hours. In the video, as Noel pointed out, she appears to be hiding from an unknown entity. One thing that you'll notice are these wild, erratic movements. Body language experts, this is an important note. Body language experts bleed this may be a manic period and maybe manifesting in very strong, but very fleeting and temporary emotions. There are times in the video where she's smiling, there are times when she's hiding. And one thing that we also noticed, I think we watched it is that the door doesn't seem to close, at least not while she's anywhere near the elevator right right, And the fact that she pushes that whole row of buttons, which is not like, I mean, the whole thing. The reason it gave me the creeps is the fact that the elevator doors don't open, and she appears to be you know, I could see it being described as manic moves, but they don't. It's not like she's having some sort of fit or an attack or some sort. She feels very in control. It feels very deliberate the things that she's doing, The way she steps out of the elevator and then back in, and then out of the elevator again and back in, and then she kind of huddles against the back wall of the elevator, sort of standing very still and upright in the corner by the buttons in the corner by the buttons, and like it's as though she's expecting someone or as though she senses something, you know, there, and it really I'm not one to go for that kind of stuff A lot. I was watching the video gave me a bit of a shiver. Yeah, especially for me. The body language with the hands. There's a part of the video where she exits and she's standing directly outside into the left at the door, so she's still visible in profile, and she just does a strange thing pivoting her wrist and moving her hands and some sort of it's a very strange motion, almost like a tut They call that. I don't know if you watch that show, Yeah, that's that really, I'm not joking. It has that almost like sense of trying to complete the motions of a ritual of some sort. But yes, it's very interesting. It looks calculated and purposeful and it's intricate. That's a very good point, and that is one of the lynch pins of the various theories surrounding the death of Alisa Lamb. Before we get into those, I do think it is necessary for us to have one disclaimer which is that we're we're pursuing this and exploring this in the utmost respectful manner, right, and a manner of extreme respect, because we know that sometimes when things like this get out on the Internet, people can be very dehumanizing about it, you know, and people have had their lives ruined when they become memes because they have a dumb picture from their high school yearbook. Right. Hopefully not none of us are speaking from experience or actually experienced that. But this is this is a very serious thing. This is a human beings life, and we can't forget that this is a person that had family and loved ones. And if you follow her social media presence and look, you know at some of the stuff that is out there, there is a lot of outpouring of love for her family and from her friends, and we want to keep all of that in mind in how we explore the various theories behind this tragic death. And we will explore those theories in just a moment after a word from our sponsors. Now. In the days and years after Lisa Lamb's death, numerous theories have sprung up from all corners of the Internet. Usually these are um fascinating noel right, um, but you own your words, my friends. I respect and appreciate everything about you. Sometimes the relatively mundane others are a bit out there. Let's let's call them extraordinary nary um. But let's start off with the least unusual. What if Alice lm in the grip of a bipolar episode climb the water tower self accessed, uh the roof and the stairs and open the hatch and disrobed and dropped inside. Okay, so this is a possibility. This would probably be Occam's razor. May Perhaps this would be where you'd start with. Um. Yeah, this is the one that I would probably start with if I was an investigator. M hm, and if only just to rule it out. So we know that it's possible to access the roof, as who is it Mr Lopez mentioned, by getting up to the top floor, then climbing the stairs, opening a door that has an alarm on it, and then you're on the roof and you can gain access to the water tanks. It's a little convoluted to get there. We have some pictures here where you can look at it, um, and you can find them online too if you wish. Look at the cecil hotel roof. Um. But we also know from a video that was posted by someone online who tried to retrace the steps of Elisa Lamb, and this person went through the hotel room at the Cecil Hotel, got to one of the top floors, not the very top one where you can access the roof through the stairs, but you can access a fire escape by climbing a ladder and then you can get to the roof that way, and then from there you can climb another ladder that gets you up to this smaller tower that's above where the water tanks are. And it is very much possible that that is one way Elisa Lamb did access these water tanks. The hatch itself, the way you get into one of these water tanks is about sixteen inches large. And UM, I have not seen anyone. I don't know if you guys have seen anyone like actually opening one of these things. I haven't seen video of it, at least I'm not aware of it. Now. All four tanks are four by eight feet that's one point two by two point four meters. These cylinders are propped up on these fairly large concrete blocks, which is why Lopez describes as a ten foot tank exactly, and there's no fixed access to them. You can't just climb up a ladder that's attached to one of these tanks to get into it. That's why it's thought that perhaps she went up around the ladder on the other side. Um and again they're protected by those heavy lids. There is a Reddit post on Unresolved Mysteries Ben that you and I definitely looked at, and on here someone goes through and starts looking at the physics of what this hatch would be because it's this is something you can't find in online anywhere through the official sources, and it appears that would be around thirty pounds to fifty pounds heavy, depending on what gage of steel what's made out of, which is fairly heavy. If you think about that, trying to lift that up but not impossible to lift its certainly not impossible, and while Lane was a diminutive person, it's not automatic proof that she couldn't lift the hatch. The big question is whether the hatch was locked that night right, and whether there was some way to access the roof as a customer guest of the hotel, and that leads us to the second theory, which is a bit darker. What if Alsa Lamb was abducted and murdered. This would explain why she seemed to be behaving erratically in the video. Maybe there was someone actually following her that she was trying to get away from. I find that a little difficult, given you know that she didn't run that she was just kind of hanging out in this elevator, looking around, but not really making any efforts to escape anything immediately threatening her. But let's continue. Um, So there's no proof that she wasn't murdered. Let's get that out of the way. For sure. She made blog posts while she was staying at this hotel, UM talking about having trouble with quote unquote creepers. UM. I guess you know, you can interpret that any number of ways, whether or not that was someone that was actually following her around, a single individual that she identified, or whether it was just like you said, it was in a bad yeah, that kind of stuff, more general pleasantness. UM. The blog was updated several times after her death, which is very unusual. One of the images that's on there is a like a graphic image and of a light bulb hanging from a string against a kind of a drab wall backdrop and inside the lightbulb is um kind of snowy scene with a with a little shack and a tree. I found that a little unsettling myself. Um, but Ben you mentioned you feel like this could have been a series of scheduled posts perhaps, and people can do you know, the internet has a weird approach to time. You can write uh blog post and schedule it for years in the future technically, but still if you look at what was it, nol, you did the legwork on this too. You you saw the most recent post was a definitely like the same year, but months later. So it's then it becomes a question of when when that post was actually written or scheduled to publish, or if there was someone else, maybe a friend or a relative or another unknown person who had access to it. The biggest signpost to to this like if she had a murderer who was were an employee at the hotel, then that would explain why they were able to get up there. The doors and the stairs that access the hotel's roof are locked, with only staff having the past code and keys, and any attempt to force them would have in theory triggered an alarm. For the record, in later legal dealings between the hotel staff and Lamb's parents lawsuits, the staff stated that they did not hear any alarm on the night of Lamb's disappearance and probable death. And something to think about here is if she did access the roof through some other means, through a fire escape or something, it would in my mind, if she was attacked by someone not on the roof and then taken to the roof, that would be extremely difficult to do without having access to the door that has an alarm on it. Yes. Yeah, that's a very good point. And the lack of evidence of sexual assault makes some of that a bit difficult to believe for me. I mean, if you're going to take a young lady, you know, up to the roof like that, it seems like you would have nefarious intent unless it was some sort of serial killer that whose memo did not include any kind of sexual assault, right right, And if it was a male serial killer, male serial killers are typically typically have some sort of aspect of that with them, right uh. And you know, a serial killer wouldn't be too out of the ordinary at the Cecil Hotel that's true. It has a history of uh what was it Ramirez? Richard Ramirez there for a little while, the not the original night Stalker, but the night Stalker. Yes, Richard Ramirez, the more mainstream night Stalker, along with his copycat Jack under Wigger, lived at the at the Cecil Hotel while they committed their crimes. This goes into one of the stranger theories, the idea and this is for people who believe in things like ghosts or possession of sorts. The Cecil Hotel has a very troubling history, similar to the Overlook Hotel in the Shining. It seems to be the by some dark lottery of coincidence. It is a place where a lot of bad things have happened. Elizabeth Short, also known as the Black Dahlia, was supposedly staying at the Cecil before she was murdered in Goldy Ozgood, known as the Pigeon Lady of Persian Square, was raped and murdered in her hotel room there in sixty four. And as we said, serial killers stayed there while they were active. The hotel has also been the location of multiple many suicides, including and this is a very strange one, one woman who committed suicide by jumping out of a window off the ledge and then killed a completely innocent person who just happened to be walking by. That is the This is a family show, so I'll say that is the crappiest day ever. It's almost as though if there were some sort of malignant energy seeping out from this place. This is almost an example of it reaching out into the greater world around it and you know, having an effect. You know that's true, it's possible. Or you take the other side and if I embodied Jonathan Strickland for a moment, you just say, well, maybe it could just be an area where this hotel is located. Right. That's in Jonathan Street flynd is a is a friend of the show, host of podcast tech Stuff and also will make occasional appearances here. Oh he's also our complaint department, so if you have any complaints, please send them directly to Jonathan dot Strickland how stuff works dot com. But yeah, that is a good point. Is it just simply that it is a budget hotel in a bad area? I mean, it's possible, but do you believe that there can be places with bad or good energy? It's an interesting question because many times people would dismiss that as some sort of quote unquote hippy dippy thing. However, we do have we we did find in an earlier episode on ghosts that there's compelling evidence that human beings are sensitive to certain frequencies and energies that we do not consciously interpret. You know, if someone they're they're frequent sees, they can make you hallucinate frequencies of noise, frequencies of electro magnetic radiation, and the vast majority of people throughout civilization, right because we only only really recently started understanding magnetism, and uh, if I could quote, I c p uh, don't do a lot of people still aren't clear on what's going on with magnets. So most people such a good way to put it. Most people will just say, you know, if you hear something spooky, you're at this you're at this graveyard, or you're at this place where people are repeatedly citing strange phenomenon and you experience it yourself. A lot of people aren't going to instantly turn into some sort of vulcan and go well, logically, a lot of people are gonna link either run or take out their camera or freak out. And I wonder if there's a wonder if there's such things as good places. You know, there are a couple here in the in an area that are rumored to be like that. Uh there's a spot in Arabia Mountain which is fun fact also the location part of the filming location pet Cemetery too. Really. Yeah, Arabia Mountains an interesting place that you go and it feels like you're almost on the moon, like if they're these bizarre craters that support it's some kind of you know, the specifics of the type of that liten is. It's like red makes the water red. So there are all these pools of blood red water with mossy, kind of fuzzy little ecosystems within them. Um, and it's and it looks like nothing nowhere else I've ever been in my life. If you an area and little cairns, little stacks of rocks, is it is it cursed the area there? Or is it a good place? Uh? Well, it seems to be usually a bad place because the reports we would always was here were that it had a higher than average incidents of violent crime, which again could just be the location. It's a very old old place. It's part of the fourth largest basaltic extrusion, which it's it's also as part of the same gigantic chunk of basaltic rock that formed Stone Mountain, which is another fairly odd Atlanta attraction. And yeah, like Noel said, the plants there seemed completely, almost completely alien, you know, and it does feel like you're in the moon. Uh. There were some very dodgy murders there in the seventies. You can see where at the side of one death someone wrote the Lord's Prayer and white paint. And I remember going there many years ago to have seen somebody scrawling it out in black paint and writing he can't hear you. And I don't know who stacks those rocks. But anyway, it's it's a strange place, and it's easy. It's surprisingly easy to get lost there too. But for people who believe in very good places are very bad places, are very spiritual places, we would like to hear what you think, if you think that's real, and if you think there's a reason behind it, whether that reason is scientific or spiritual. Uh. You know, we have you know, we've heard stuff before about lay lines or the geomagnetic theories. We've also heard arguments about things like altitude affecting someone's perception or sea level. It's very fascinating thing. I got a couple additional details about the Alsa Lamb case that are quite troubling. You may want to cut this out, guys, but um, apparently she was in the tank long enough that her remains contaminated the drinking water and bathing water for the hotel, and some guests reported, you know, having drank drink it something wrong, was what the taste was off. Yeah, that's one of the big back and forth that people have had in the years since, because we know there was definitely water pressure, but if there's a decomposing it was what they call moderately decomposed bodies, so that means it's bloated, its greenish, it's you know, it is contamination. So yeah, those people in those in this place with hundreds of rooms you're right now, only probably drink it. And we didn't have I couldn't find any reports that confirmed any illness from that, but statists sically it's very very likely that that happened because these are this was a matter of weeks, you know. Uh. And and finally, um, the parents. Lisa Lam's parents actually filed a lawsuit, a negligence lawsuit against the hotel, but a judge in Los Angeles threw it out, claiming that the death could in no way have been considered foreseeable um entirely because of the conditions that we described. In order to get into that tank, she would have had to scale quite a few treacherous uh situations, including a ladder to get up to the ledge above it because there were no accessible ladders on the tanks themselves, and then would have had to scale down a partial wall that was above the tank, or just jumped off of the roof onto the top of the tank. And um, there was nothing, according to the judge's ruling, that would have made it inviting in any way or made it seem like it was okay to be there. Everything pointed to this person having on this themselves, which I think is what makes this case so very, very creepy to me. And also, you know, I'm glad you brought that up, because one of the most painful things about something like this is when someone is gone, you know, and if your child is gone, then that's the beginning of something that is going to continue for years and maybe never ends, and they have to go to the to this courtroom, to stand in front of these strangers to say, you know, people shouldn't die when they go to your hotel. Our daughter shouldn't die. And it's and it's tough. You know, I do not envy. Well, there's always a need to find answers, and sometimes that leads to a sense for retaliation against a perceived enemy, you know, and antagonists. Um, but we should also mention that, you know, bipolar disorder manifests itself across a very large spectrum. I mean, I've known people that were considered bipolar and these behaviors, these manic episodes followed by these depressive episodes there really mild and it's very manageable. But given a further trip down that spectrum, you could find yourself in a place where you'd be driven to do something like this. Well, your perception of your environment, reality uh takes takes a hard left. It's it's a it's a very serious thing and it does have a spectrum and it does have degrees and especially if you depending on what cocktail you have running through your body of drugs, right, And so that's that's a good point to There is an autopsy report that you can find in PDF form online and this this thing has some good news. There was a hair and feurniale kit done, no evidence of physical trauma nor of sexual assault. They also found no evidence. This is interesting that she would suggest Lamb had committed suicide. So that's why it's ruled as an accidental drowning, and they do site bipolar disorder as a significant factor. They also found her clothes that she's wearing in the elevator video floating in the water beside her, uh, coated with a quoting here, sand like particulate. I'm not sure where it came from. And her watching room key were there too. Toxicology tests were done on her blood and they found traces of her prescription medication. She was on a long list she had. She had a long history of taking medication. She's probably a better way to say it. Uh. She also had non prescription drugs like sino tap ivy prof and uh. She had point zero two percent alcohol in her blood, but there were no recreational drugs in her system. And I mean point zero two is like a beer. Yeah, you know, it's the body is also breaking down at this point. That's true. And so how long was it before that she was she was discovered, Just to make that clear one more time, Yes, so from February one to February, so two weeks, little between two and three weeks. Yeah, And the full autopsy report was released four months later in June. But on February the Corner's office ruled it an accidental drowning. There are so many unexplained things that that occurred that night and then from that date up until she was found and even now today, and there are so many ideas about what this could be, about what could have happened. Some of them even veer into this spooky maybe I mean almost a sense that there were some occult activity going on some of the message boards and various postings and sort of more conspiracies conspiracy oriented forums and groups that I've seen um, you know, talk about this case in the same breath as Alistair Crowley, the kinds of summoning rituals that he would have done with these hand movements, the touts that we were talking about earlier, or um with the possession, the demon possession kind of versions of the story with this being a bad place very much like the movie Pet Cemetery, which came up unrelated to this, actually talking about locations of the filming, but you know that had to do with a location that was built on the soul, the saw tainted ground ground. Richard Ramirez also was a practicing occultist. He practiced what he considered to be left hand path magical rituals. And this is something that I think is thrown around far too often. But another thing that's it seems to pop up a lot about this case is that this is an example of some sort of Illuminati ritual exposed to the public um in a way that perhaps the ones perpetrating it wouldn't have wanted to happen. So let's continue down this path, this rabbit hole. Let's look at some more extraordinary theories regarding this incident. After a quick word from our sponsors. One of the strangest accounts that we read. One of the strangest theories we found regarding the events on the night of February first was an urban legend that originated in Korea, and it is called the Elevator game. This is completely speculative. We have not played this game. I don't know if we would want to I cannot wait to do this. The idea I would rank this in the old dare daring your friends to do stuff games that so many people play growing up, turning off the lights, saying bloody Mary several times in a mirror things right, candy Man. So the ideas that by performing a certain ritual in an elevator very specific when you will arrive at a slightly off kilter plane of existence, and I'll read some stuff from just the account of the elevator game. According to people that have completed the game successfully, it looks the same as the down and building that you're from when you emerge, but all the lights are off. You can only see a red cross in the distance. You're the only living thing in this plane, and for the most part, electronics don't work. If you manage to get to this strange place, returning to the real world is more difficult. You will grow disorder in the elevator door will seem to grow further and further away as you walk toward it. Only one person can play the game at a time. It can only be performed in a building at least ten stories high with at least one elevator in it, otherwise you cannot proceed, and they have the instructions for traveling, and we don't have to go through all of this, but one of the ideas would be you enter the well the basic steps. You enter the elevator from the first floor by yourself. If anyone else gets on, you cannot continue the ritual and you have to wait until you can take the elevator alone. You press the button for the fourth floor. When it reaches the fourth floor, you stay inside the elevator, press the button for the second floor. Don't get out. When you reach the second floor, stay in and press the button for the sixth floor. And then after that, don't get out, remain in the elevator, go back to the second floor, and once you reach the second floor, press the button for the tenth floor. And if you hear anything calling to you on the second floor, do not reply, don't answer. And then once you're so it's very intricate, right, this pattern of buttons. Right, so, once you reach the tenth floor, stay on and press the button for the fifth floor. This is the creepy part. They say that when you enter the when you when you get to the fifth floor, after you've done this series of buttons. A woman will enter a stranger. A strange woman will enter the elevator, and she'll try to talk to you, and you can't acknowledge them. She might this person might even appear as someone you are familiar with, according to the legend old high school friend, co worker. UH. And then you press the It's important that you don't look at this person all. And if you press the button to head to the first floor. This is when you know the ritual works correctly, because you'll push the button for the first floor, and instead of going to the first floor, you go to the tenth. You start going up, and then if you reach the tenth floor, you can stay on her exit the elevator. UH. Some have said that when they are trying to leave, the woman will try one last time to engage with you. She may raise your voice, she may shriek at you. There's only one way to know. Whether you travel to the other world, for sure, you will be the only living thing there. And then they have instructions to get back to the get back to the actual world, our world. UH. And they're they're they're pretty detailed. So this has all the makings of an urban legend, right, it has all the tropes. It has a it has the fear of strangers, It has the importance of ritual and rule following, It has anonymity and authors. It has no specific examples of times that this occurred. So, uh, the best way for you and die and everyone else to find out whether this works would be to attempt it here. We cannot attempt in our office because our office is not ten stories seven, so that would be a different rituals really fast. Along with these things that you're listening off about, what makes it an urban legend. One issue here is that electronics, most electronics don't seem to work or for the most part, or which you know, you try and film this so you can put it on YouTube and show yourself going to an alternate plane. It's probably not gonna happen because electronics don't work. Also, you need to be alone, and would that violate one of the rules by having a camera which is in some way an infinite number of viewers? Yeah, but how about this fellas. Another thing about our legends is that they're you know, cobbled together from bits of things that may or may not be true. The thing you end up with is sort of the product of a game of telephone played over generations. Sometimes, you know, what if a story like this, what if there was some truth to it, What if the procedure outlined here is not exactly right. What if someone really had the right way of doing this and did involve an elevator. Maybe it involves some strange hand gestures. Maybe it involved, you know, pressing a certain row of buttons all the way, And maybe there's an apparition of some sort in that elevator footage that is being communicated with in some way. I mean, I don't usually go for this kind of stuff, but this story really got my imagination going, and I can't help but think of that tumbler image that was posted after Melissa Lamb's death so long after, of a single lightbulb with another world contained inside, hanging from a string against a drab backdrop. It just kind of represents to me this idea of a different world going to a different place. Yeah that, you know, that's a very good point. And only also it also calls to mind our discussion about rituals and grim wise, you know, and the idea that maybe there is a real ritual and it it just isn't specifically explained correctly, and we do know the one thing that escapes a lot of people about folk tales and fairy tales. It's easy to dismiss them, but like Noel said with the game of telephone for generations, these are cobbled from very very old old stories. All. So many of those urban legends that you may hear about UFOs began as stories of gods and mountains and evil spirits or fairies or faye. And so this likely does have the DNA might say, of of something else. And the way that the way that they associate the people who believe that this elevator game through the way they associated is with exactly as you pointed out, the button pushing and the deliberate seeming motions that this person takes. But I wonder if anybody has thought about the point that you made, which I don't think I've heard. I think this is the first time I've thought about it. The light bulb image. Uh, not to poke holes in the theory too much, but Alisa Lamb, at least according to the video, never travels on the elevator, stays on one floor. And I'm glad you brought that up because people who claim to be video editor experts have controversial views about that. And this is where I wanted to defer to you guys, to your expertise. Do you think the video is edited? I know the time stamp is obscured in the original because several people watched it and said that it was edited for people who are not, you know, pursuing some kind of uh, supernatural or extraordinary explanation. The people who think there is a conspiracy, perhaps on the part of the hotel or perhaps even on the l A p D. On the l A p D s end uh, they say that there was someone else visible on the camera, but time had been cut out or spliced, And I wanted to know what what you guys think of that. The biggest thing for me in watching it is I cannot find a good enough rip of the original one. The the video that's posted under what is it Dennis Romero, that's the one with seventeen million views that we were talking about, and then that's obviously the most commonly viewed one just from the numbers, but it is so pixelated and everything, like the numbers at the bottom with the time code or what I'm assuming is time code on the bottom left hand corner. It's just it looks strange to me, and it's still little quality that it would be very hard to determine whether or not this thing was affected in post somehow to look in a certain way, because you could manipulate the contents of this imagery fairly easily. Okay, So in that case, it's sort of inconclusive. That's what I would say. Okay, what do you think? It wasn't anything that would have been easy to edit that actually hit me about it. It was just more the way she moved, you know. It was like the way she the things that she did. So you are you saying that like it may have been there may have been parts of it that were edited out, perhaps where the elevator was in motion, where she did get on and took the elevator to another floor, or someone else did at some point get on the elevator with her here on camera, And then the numbers down here that it appears to be a time code that's in white as the primary color, and then there's either a drop shadow or a black background on top of the numbers, and that's generally not what you see in time code. Perhaps it is for this system that's used in the hotel, But it looks strange to me as someone who works with video on a daily basis. Why does it matter whether it moved or not. Um, I guess for more information on her travels, like whether she was truly alone, and you know, if that, if it was available to the police, then they would know and that would be part of the investigation hopefully. And I'll put on my I'll put I'll put on my Johnathan cap here for a second to and say that the one of one of the people who believed that the video was edited as some sort of conspiracy maybe if there was a if there was a murder and was someone at the hotel or something, the their idea is that it was edited to cut that person off from appearing on camera. However, we should also point out that even unto the idea of door locks and stuff, this is kind of a CD hotel or a budget hotel, right, and it's got a lot of history. But also it's not as likely to follow procedures to a t including off like elevator maintenance. So if it's an older elevator, it could just be malfunctioning. I don't know if that's the case. I haven't talked to the elevator maintenance guy. I haven't checked their paperwork from but that does seem to be a possibility. If someone were to be murdered in a hotel, is the hotel liabel to the family of the victim. That's a really good question. I guess it would only be through if it were through negligence. So if we were, I don't want to use us for example, who are other coworkers Jonathan? Okay, sure, he's gonna love this episode, all right, So if Jonathan, we're in uh, we're in a hotel room, and he invited guests over and one of let's keep his hands clean. One of his friends murdered another one of his friends in an argument over the Renaissance Festival clue style. Clues style, yes, yeah, okay, blues style. Uh it was Aberil von Battenborough in Unit with the chopsticks, with the chopsticks Okay, yeah, I knew you were there. Brutal. Von Battenborough is a very brutal man, even when he's out of character. Well, what would happen then? As I think the who and I'm not a lawyer, I think the hotel would not be responsible because they, on their part, did nothing wrong to assist that if you are at a hotel, you can usually bring guests, and if the hotel's rooms and units are up to code in terms of safety and everything, then there's nothing wrong if they if it could be proven that the person at the counter, let's say our coworker Lauren was at the counter there as the as the the clerk, and this Admiral von Batberg guy said I'm going up to you know, I'm going to murder one of Jonathan Strickland's friends. And she didn't call the cops, then she would be liable as an individual. But what about even if like an employee of the hotel gave someone information that finding someone that didn't want to be found, for example. Yeah, Like, I just wonder that's a really good point because that happens on both sides of the law. That happens when police are hunting down a missing person or someone who committed a crime and is on the run. But that also would happen, you know, with an abusive spouse or a hit man. That's a very good question. I'm interested we should throw this to listeners ladies and gentlemen, if you have a history in the hospitality business, we would like to know, uh, purely for informational purpose, is right, no plans right? Okay, So we would like to know how how that legally works, because a lot of hotels, by the by the mirror, by their mere existence as temporary housing, could plausibly have any of the crimes that occur in in a permanent house occur there murder, assault, theft, kidnapping, and so at what point is the hotel liable? This is really making me rethink hotels. Man. I never ever say at some place that you don't control really fast this video, I just I was looking back through it again as you guys are having that discussion, and at two fifty six in the time code of the Dennish Romero version, there is clearly clearly a stop in the time code pausing the video in the doors begins closing. That's one of the places that people I went through the comments, that's one of the places that people have noticed something is off. And you'll see a few instances of that where you can clearly tell that whatever time code is generated at the bottom skips a bit and or stops so is it possible then that it could be just a cut for time. Is it possible that the law enforcement just dispersed the most relevant part of absolutely possible any for our footage, But we won't know unless we were told that directly by someone who was on the case. And there is one other theory, one final theory that we found that is a very strange coincidence. That's what I'm gonna call this one, a very strange coincidence, and it ultimately ties into or implicitly ties into the concept of human experimentation. When Eliza Lamb was in California at this time, there was a tuberculosis tests occurring, a large scale one, and the goals of this were too combat the rise of drug resistant TB noble aspiration. It is a one that is important to the species as a whole. The official name of this test of this project was Lamb Elisa L A N E L I S A, the same spelling of Eliza's Aliza Lamb's name, Eliza Lamb the person. Because of this very strange coincidence, many people have speculated that the disappearance and death are somehow related and because of the US as well as some other problems with the autopsy reporter or cited controversies with the autopsy report. Uh, people believe that maybe this was the tip of an iceberg of another mass human experimentation. And as much as um, as much as we would the three of us would like to say, no, that's crazy, that would never happen. We've looked at cases where the US government conducted widespread and dangerous experiments on its own population in St. Louis in southern California, and uh, they gave people syphilis or or excuse me, the official story is they just didn't treat syphilis. They looked at the effect. They looked at the effects. So we knew know that human experimentation occurs. However, what we also know is that the public tends to find out about this decades decades later. And it's the old weisia board argument, right like, if there is a real, if there really is a way to contact the afterlife, is it in a mass produced game by Parker Brothers And still no proof? If there is a if there is a vast, nefarious, citywide or you know, large scale, secret human experimentation project, are they going to name it after one of the people involved, you know what I mean, that's like calling it That's like Matt Frederick having a human sacrifice ring operating in Arabia Mountain and the seventies and then having putting out a public notice about Matt Frederick's hop secret human sacrifice ring the sacrifice dash Human Right or Yeah right dot org. It's a nonprofit, so that coincid events, while strange, with the information we have now, it's tough to call it anything else. And at this point it seems like the majority of people believed that this was a very unfortunate, tragic, heartbreaking incident that happened completely involving Eliza Lamb. On our own, however, we would like to know what you think. Are the questions that people opposing um, are they utter bunk or the malarkey? Is there something more to the story? And while you're at it, uh, what other unexplained disappearances or deaths would you like us to explore in the future. Let us know what you think. And speaking of hearing from you, what do you say, guys? Should we do chat at corners? Our first shout out goes to Jacob also known as Hancho Hancho Underscore one is it all right that I said that, Jacob. I hope so because I did. Have you guys ever looked into you n Agenda twenty one. Oh yes, we have, sir, supposedly quote the naked communist ties in with it. I had a human growth and development professor that made us watch the documentary Agenda Grinding America Down. Well, we have covered Agenda twenty one in video form. You can find that on our YouTube channel or at stuff they don't want you to know dot com. The best U r L in the history of the internets, and this is this has to do with food production and well, there's a lot of stuff that goes into Agenda twenty one. It's characterized as a sustainable as a voluntary action plan for sustainable to development, which means that, uh, they're hoping to combat poverty, They're hoping to create more more legal protection for environmental concerns to forestation, bio diversity, control, pollution, et cetera. Opponents of it say typically say that this is removing severenity, uh and agency from individual countries. And this is a huge This is a huge documents, three fifty pages, it's forty chapters long. I have I I am always surprised when someone has read the entire thing, UH, and it's not too popular in the US. Well, here's the best way to say it, Hancho. June two, twelve poll of US voters found that nine percent of the people supported it, six percent of it, six percent opposed it, and five percent said they didn't have an opinion because they didn't know what it is, because it didn't have enough information. And I'm going to check out the documentary you recommended, Grinding America Down. I have not seen that yet. Have you guys seen that. I have not, but you know, just from the research I had done previously with you guys on this, I don't look at Agenda twenty one kindly too much because it does feel like there's maybe something to it that gets in I don't want to say, gets into eugenics too much. It's the population control. It feels that way to me, even though that's not stated anywhere any in any of the documents that they are official. It just has that feeling. That's UH the way I view it currently. The main the main criticism I've heard in the West against UH Agenda twenty one is the idea that it is creating a global order and or a global dictatorship. So you'll hear a lot of a lot of people say that it is um eroding American severenity. Yeah, it's like twenty four years old, now five years old. How time flies? How time flies when you have big plans? Right, thank you for writing in Hauncho. We have another shout out. Our second shout out of the day comes from riker Ce Dear Conspiracy, Hey, how's it going, guys. I'm a truck driver, so for around eleven hours a day, I pretty much do anything I can to fight off the boredom. Um. You guys, along with the stuff you should no team, really make my day a lot easier. And I've been binge listening a lot of your stuff lately. I've been skipping around a lot. But today I listened to your episode on the Fermi Paradox. And I know I'm incredibly late on this, but I wanted to add something that I thought would surprise you that you guys did not discuss you our solar system. The Sun takes up about nine point nine percent of the matter here. Of the remaining point one percent, Jupiter takes up about seventy of that. Uh, in our own solar system, we're basically nothing. Imagine how hard that minuscule amount of matter would be to pick up on various equipment. Um. Yeah, if it even showed up at all, it could be attributed to a rounding error. Uh, it's entirely likely that an intelligent life form visited our solar system in a search for life but just looked us over as a computing error. Just wanted to offer up another explanation on the subject. It was one of my favorite episodes. You guys are great, and for my sanity sake, please keep up the awesome work. Also, do you guys ever plan on doing any kind of work with Aaron from the Lower Podcast? Your cryptic stuff is really interesting and it would be a dream come true to hear that you guys are guest starring or he's guest starring. Well, that's cool. We're actually going to be on a bill with Lore at the New York City Podfest April nine at the Bell House in Brooklyn. So maybe we can make make friends. Yeah yeah, technically we can say that we are in a show. Technically. Uh, that's a That's that's a pretty pretty great idea. Maybe we should maybe we should write to him, see if you wants to hang out, and not to mention the computing era stuff. I mean, I think that is interesting if you're looking, if you're monitoring, you know, big picture stuff from far, far, far far away. It's true that we are a bit of a spec We're a blue, tiny bluespec. We are not near as important as we think we are. That is pretty much the story of human history, right, but the the I really appreciate that, And uh, don't feel bad, don't don't feel bad about being quote unquote late Wriker. That's that's awesome. That's a point that I personally didn't consider at all, you know, and it probably works both ways, right because if there's another planet around the same size, right, even if it's very advanced advanced civilization, our odds of finding it with our comparatively rudimentary equipment are even more infantessimal. It's a big world, it's a big universe. It makes you think. Also, big shout out to your parents, Riker for naming you that, or you if you change your name however, got there and maybe it's just a moniker, but cool name. Yeah, these are these are all great names. Hancho, Jacob, it's Jacob. I like Hancho alright, Sorry, sorry, Jacob. I think both of your names are awesome. It's just Hancho seems like such a cool like street name, you know what I mean. You know I'd roll with Hancho. Yeah, I'd rule with Hancho too. We've got a another shout out for today from somebody else who has an awesome name and is Miranda s. Hey, guys, absolutely love the show, been a fan for years and so happy you guys do audio podcasts now as well. I was wondering if maybe you guys could do an episod about the Deep Web. Maybe did already not sure. Also, vile magic slash Satanic sects would be an interesting subject, as with the science behind chaos magic and sigils or their relation to soionic manifestation as a whole. Anyway, keep up the great work you guys. Help me breathe through my work day. Miranda, we uh, we do. We're We're in luck. We do, in fact have an episode on the Deep Web on the on the Basics of it um and you can also check out some I feel like we have to we have to play nice with our coworker Johnathan at the end of this episode. You can also check out some of the episodes he has about the Deep Web, which are great and uh, my favorite one personally that we've done is the interview with Alex Winter, who made a documentary called the Deep Web or Deep Web. Yeah, we, uh we did have an interview with him, very very cool guy, very knowledgeable as well. Uh we on the on the subject of magic, satanic sex or chaos, magic and sigils. And to be clear s E C T S. Yes, yes, yes, thank you matt On on that point, there are we We've done some work on magic in the past, and we we really I think we have a wealth of strange opportunities when it comes to examining specific uh specific occult sects like you know nol earlier mentioned Alistair Crowley and uh and when we were talking about occult theories in this episode, and I love to delve into the Great Beast, at least conversationally. Yeah, and so we'd like to follow up on that for now. This concludes Gosh and it also concludes today's episode of The Stuff That Don't Want You To To Know a podcast. One more thing, though, my God I know, come on, I'm not a coffee. If you guys are interested in that elevator ritual that we were discussing earlier, there is an oculus rift experience called the elevator ritual where in you get into an elevator and you do the steps where you go up to the second floor, or no, you go up to the fourth floor, then second, sixth, second, eight seconds. You do the whole thing, and there may or may not be an ethereal woman involved, but it sounds exciting. No thanks, y'all can have that. I don't have an access to an oculus, so I can't really do it. I think the thing is nolan. I are not the guys in horror movies who go what was that noise? I'm gonna check it out. See that's me though. I don't. I don't even want to go to like haunted houses and stuff like you know, the produced ones not I've never been to one. Don't plan on change in that anytime soon. I prefer to be the thing hiding in the dark waiting. Yeah, are that thing, Matt, believe in yourself? Man, we have you know, it's it's soon as a hunted houses thing. It's just never been my cup of tea. I would I would, uh, I like control. I'm a control freak. Well, I just you know, I'm glad that people are having fun, and on a technical level, I'm sure the makeup is impressive. But I live in Atlanta. If I want to run through a sketchy area and have people jump out and try to grab me, then I can just walk there. There you go. So what do you say, Matt? Can we end the show now? I think we can? Said, okay, I give you permission. Thanks, buddy, even though I have no permission to give. You're my favorite and I'm painfully aware of that. And that's the end of this classic episode. If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can get into contact with us in a number of different ways. One of the best is to give us a call. Our number is one eight three three s T d W y t K. If you don't want to do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,