So conspiracy realists, welcome to tonight's classic episode. We talked, I think, in a couple of shows over these many years about something called chlorophobia, which is a huge, a huge fear in the post gacy environment of the Western world, the fear of clowns.

So conspiracy realists, welcome to tonight's classic episode. We talked, I think, in a couple of shows over these many years about something called chlorophobia, which is a huge, a huge fear in the post gacy environment of the Western world, the fear of clowns.

Those clowns are scary, y'all.

Those clowns are scary, y'all.

Yeah, yeah, and like you know, pop cultucture hasn't really given them a break at least the clowning profession, which once was a reputable field, and now you know, folks that are clowning for a living have all this chlorophobia stuff to deal with with, like movies like It and then of course the hugely popular remake of It.

Yeah, yeah, and like you know, pop cultucture hasn't really given them a break at least the clowning profession, which once was a reputable field, and now you know, folks that are clowning for a living have all this chlorophobia stuff to deal with with, like movies like It and then of course the hugely popular remake of It.

Oh yeah, and this particular incident that we are going to be discussing or I guess maybe time frame, time period where there were just there seemed to be clowns everywhere. I think it's a great exploration of our previous discussions. Well, I guess the post this happening, but previous to this moment in time right now, about how social media really was changing everything. Right, this is twenty nineteen October right at the end, right around Halloween actually, and there were so many videos of clowns just hanging out, purported to be just wandering around.

Oh yeah, and this particular incident that we are going to be discussing or I guess maybe time frame, time period where there were just there seemed to be clowns everywhere. I think it's a great exploration of our previous discussions. Well, I guess the post this happening, but previous to this moment in time right now, about how social media really was changing everything. Right, this is twenty nineteen October right at the end, right around Halloween actually, and there were so many videos of clowns just hanging out, purported to be just wandering around.

Yeah, not doing professional clowning, just sort of lingering at the edge of a roadside or a forest or copes of trees. It all began in August in twenty sixteen, when five photographs of what appeared to be a suspicious clown were discovered, and these photographs took place in Green Bay, Wisconsin. But as you said, Matt, this is more than just an exploration of some creepy people in unusual dress. This is an exploration of the social media world in which we now reside. Ye, all right, let's roll it.

Yeah, not doing professional clowning, just sort of lingering at the edge of a roadside or a forest or copes of trees. It all began in August in twenty sixteen, when five photographs of what appeared to be a suspicious clown were discovered, and these photographs took place in Green Bay, Wisconsin. But as you said, Matt, this is more than just an exploration of some creepy people in unusual dress. This is an exploration of the social media world in which we now reside. Ye, all right, let's roll it.

From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.

From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.

Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt Eho.

Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt Eho.

It's me No, they call me Ben. We are joined as always with our super producer Paul Mission Control Deck. At most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. It is the most wonderful time of the year. If you're listening to this episode, as it comes out today, Conspiracy Realist, Happy Halloween.

It's me No, they call me Ben. We are joined as always with our super producer Paul Mission Control Deck. At most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. It is the most wonderful time of the year. If you're listening to this episode, as it comes out today, Conspiracy Realist, Happy Halloween.

Yes, the Spookables are all around you.

Yes, the Spookables are all around you.

Spookables, Yes, that like lunchables.

Spookables, Yes, that like lunchables.

That's what my son calls them.

That's what my son calls them.

Really, that's a great name, and it's a little bit. I like how it has a little bit more edge than something being simply spooky. Right, you've probably heard that spoopy spoopy. It's like cute spooky.

Really, that's a great name, and it's a little bit. I like how it has a little bit more edge than something being simply spooky. Right, you've probably heard that spoopy spoopy. It's like cute spooky.

Oh nice. Yeah, he's into the real, real deal, legit spookable stuff.

Oh nice. Yeah, he's into the real, real deal, legit spookable stuff.

I don't know if I told you guys, I've been watching like R rated eighties horror movies with my ten year old daughter.

I don't know if I told you guys, I've been watching like R rated eighties horror movies with my ten year old daughter.

Sounds like a good idea.

Sounds like a good idea.

Yeah, no, it's fine. It's just like, mainly we watched the first two Child's Play movies because they're just hilarious. They're only rated R because of some slightly bad language. But like she kids at her school used those words and she knows not to use them and mixed company. But we've had a really good time. And last night after she went to bed, I watched My Bloody Valentine. Have you seen this? It's about a crazed miner in Ontario, Canada, and it's the most Canadian horror movie.

Yeah, no, it's fine. It's just like, mainly we watched the first two Child's Play movies because they're just hilarious. They're only rated R because of some slightly bad language. But like she kids at her school used those words and she knows not to use them and mixed company. But we've had a really good time. And last night after she went to bed, I watched My Bloody Valentine. Have you seen this? It's about a crazed miner in Ontario, Canada, and it's the most Canadian horror movie.

I've ever seen in my life as in m like minors, minors, coal miners.

I've ever seen in my life as in m like minors, minors, coal miners.

And I actually get in a conversation met with with your wife a few weeks or a month or so back, where I was thinking, I've got some books that I think Matt's kid will love. The word I think I told you this. She told me, I was worried that maybe because I don't know what kids read, I was worried that maybe the books would be like too scary, you know, like scary stories telling the dark. Probably want to wait a few years on that one or something or amphegory. But her reply was he already has so many books.

And I actually get in a conversation met with with your wife a few weeks or a month or so back, where I was thinking, I've got some books that I think Matt's kid will love. The word I think I told you this. She told me, I was worried that maybe because I don't know what kids read, I was worried that maybe the books would be like too scary, you know, like scary stories telling the dark. Probably want to wait a few years on that one or something or amphegory. But her reply was he already has so many books.

Yeah, he certainly does.

Yeah, he certainly does.

Well let him know, let him know when, well, you guys, let me know when it is appropriate to send them the creepy stuff. Because I think when we're kids, we all have this fascination to one degree or another with things that scare us, right, with things that make our heartbeat race, things that make us mistake a pile of clothes in the dark for an evil figure crouching clothes to the bed. And one of the biggest, surprisingly common fears in the Western world is something called col roaphobia. That's a word for the day that means the fear of clowns. This is a pretty recent word, it comes about in the nineteen nineties, but it describes a long standing, arguably ancient unease that is doubtlessly familiar to many of our fellow listeners. Clowns are a little bit different here in the US because we live in a post gay sy environment. John Wayne Gacy, the notorious, infamous serial murderer who also had a reputation or an alternate identity as a clown. This affected the cultural zeitgeist in a number of ways, and it has consequences, ripple effects that remain with us today. Matt, you and I I believe, were at was it the Museum of Crime or Murder in DC.

Well let him know, let him know when, well, you guys, let me know when it is appropriate to send them the creepy stuff. Because I think when we're kids, we all have this fascination to one degree or another with things that scare us, right, with things that make our heartbeat race, things that make us mistake a pile of clothes in the dark for an evil figure crouching clothes to the bed. And one of the biggest, surprisingly common fears in the Western world is something called col roaphobia. That's a word for the day that means the fear of clowns. This is a pretty recent word, it comes about in the nineteen nineties, but it describes a long standing, arguably ancient unease that is doubtlessly familiar to many of our fellow listeners. Clowns are a little bit different here in the US because we live in a post gay sy environment. John Wayne Gacy, the notorious, infamous serial murderer who also had a reputation or an alternate identity as a clown. This affected the cultural zeitgeist in a number of ways, and it has consequences, ripple effects that remain with us today. Matt, you and I I believe, were at was it the Museum of Crime or Murder in DC.

Yeah, and we saw actual Pogo the clown suits.

Yeah, and we saw actual Pogo the clown suits.

Which was his alter ego. Oh and at the Museum of Death in Hollywood they have several of his paintings that he did of himself as a clown, and his shoes are there as well.

Which was his alter ego. Oh and at the Museum of Death in Hollywood they have several of his paintings that he did of himself as a clown, and his shoes are there as well.

And this this calls to mind another episode we did on the controversy surrounding serial killer memorabilia and art, which you know, I listened back to a while ago, and I gotta say objectively, not that bad.

And this this calls to mind another episode we did on the controversy surrounding serial killer memorabilia and art, which you know, I listened back to a while ago, and I gotta say objectively, not that bad.

Not bad at all. I can't remember who I heard say this, gosh, and then this is this. I think it's an interesting point though, the idea that killers should not be publicized, their identity should not be publicized, because then it allows them to profit off of their crimes. I think that's an interesting concept.

Not bad at all. I can't remember who I heard say this, gosh, and then this is this. I think it's an interesting point though, the idea that killers should not be publicized, their identity should not be publicized, because then it allows them to profit off of their crimes. I think that's an interesting concept.

Especially in cases of terrorism where someone simply wants to be a martyr for a cause. But back to clowns. So because US, at least partially because of John Wayne Gacy, but probably because of some other long standing, hardwired psychological quirks in our brains, People from all walks of life, especially here in these United States, are pretty comfortable nowadays being upfront and transparent about their fear of or distrust of clowns. People have no problem saying I don't like clowns, I'm not going to see it, et cetera, et cetera. This is a cultural phenomenon. It's not necessarily a global attitude, and a lot of other countries clowns are these beloved figures of fun and festivity, Like in Central America, you know the parade is really poppin' when a gang of clowns comes in. I don't know what the group name for clowns is. You know how there's like a parliament of owls and unkindness of ravens, clowns, a murder of clowns, a car of clowns, a honk of clowns. I like murder of clowns. So here in the US, the fear of clowns eventually, too long ago, reached a boiling point. It became a national and then international panic. Here are the facts. Our story today starts on August first, twenty sixteen, in Green Bay, Wisconsin, five photos of what appeared to be a creepy clown surfaced. This clown was wandering, literally wandering around a parking lot under a bridge somewhere in Green Bay, and this went viral thanks to the Internet. We can only conjecture that it must have been a slow news cycle, because the pictures got national media attention. Fox News was all over at USA Today was all over it. Eventually The New York Times was writing about this. Shortly after August fifth. A Facebook page pertaining to the pictures or purporting to pertain to the picture's surface, and they said the name of this clown is Gags. Gag. Yeah.

Especially in cases of terrorism where someone simply wants to be a martyr for a cause. But back to clowns. So because US, at least partially because of John Wayne Gacy, but probably because of some other long standing, hardwired psychological quirks in our brains, People from all walks of life, especially here in these United States, are pretty comfortable nowadays being upfront and transparent about their fear of or distrust of clowns. People have no problem saying I don't like clowns, I'm not going to see it, et cetera, et cetera. This is a cultural phenomenon. It's not necessarily a global attitude, and a lot of other countries clowns are these beloved figures of fun and festivity, Like in Central America, you know the parade is really poppin' when a gang of clowns comes in. I don't know what the group name for clowns is. You know how there's like a parliament of owls and unkindness of ravens, clowns, a murder of clowns, a car of clowns, a honk of clowns. I like murder of clowns. So here in the US, the fear of clowns eventually, too long ago, reached a boiling point. It became a national and then international panic. Here are the facts. Our story today starts on August first, twenty sixteen, in Green Bay, Wisconsin, five photos of what appeared to be a creepy clown surfaced. This clown was wandering, literally wandering around a parking lot under a bridge somewhere in Green Bay, and this went viral thanks to the Internet. We can only conjecture that it must have been a slow news cycle, because the pictures got national media attention. Fox News was all over at USA Today was all over it. Eventually The New York Times was writing about this. Shortly after August fifth. A Facebook page pertaining to the pictures or purporting to pertain to the picture's surface, and they said the name of this clown is Gags. Gag. Yeah.

Well yeah, and it wasn't just any clown. It looked to be someone who was purposefully trying to be creepy, right because the character, this person whoever, was wearing all of this makeup and everything. It wasn't like your cutesy clown makeup. There were some there's an edge to it that appeared to be sinister in some way. And I believe it was what the character was holding balloons.

Well yeah, and it wasn't just any clown. It looked to be someone who was purposefully trying to be creepy, right because the character, this person whoever, was wearing all of this makeup and everything. It wasn't like your cutesy clown makeup. There were some there's an edge to it that appeared to be sinister in some way. And I believe it was what the character was holding balloons.

Yes, yeah, nah, not your vibe. Huh, that's not a lick you're going for. Yeah, it's a very good point, Matt. It was purposely done up like a scary Halloween clown, you know what I mean, not like a fun welcome to McDonald's clown, which I would argue was also still pretty creepy. Here's what happens. Numerous pundits speculate on this story, and because the is not very much in the way of solid factual reporting here, there's just not much to the story other than these five creepy pictures and a Facebook page. At this point, pundits are going wild. They're saying, what's going on here? Is this a childish prank? Is this alone unhinged lunatic? Is this part of something larger. We'll get back to that, but first, here's Carol with the weather, that kind of stuff or is it an attempt at gorilla marketing? And it turned out it turned out that our story gets sewed up in a pretty i would say, relieving way.

Yes, yeah, nah, not your vibe. Huh, that's not a lick you're going for. Yeah, it's a very good point, Matt. It was purposely done up like a scary Halloween clown, you know what I mean, not like a fun welcome to McDonald's clown, which I would argue was also still pretty creepy. Here's what happens. Numerous pundits speculate on this story, and because the is not very much in the way of solid factual reporting here, there's just not much to the story other than these five creepy pictures and a Facebook page. At this point, pundits are going wild. They're saying, what's going on here? Is this a childish prank? Is this alone unhinged lunatic? Is this part of something larger. We'll get back to that, but first, here's Carol with the weather, that kind of stuff or is it an attempt at gorilla marketing? And it turned out it turned out that our story gets sewed up in a pretty i would say, relieving way.

So eight days later, a filmmaker by the name of Adam Krause actually came forward and revealed that this was nothing but a marketing stunt. He and his crew were actually filming a short piece called Gags the Clown and Bloody Disgusting, which is a horror blog quoted Kraus as saying, we filmed the short and secret and released photos of the sightings quote quote because I wanted to convince my town that there was a creepy clown wandering the streets late at night. We released the pictures August first, twenty sixteen, and it blew up from that point on. It went viral very quickly. I announced that it was just a short film eight days later, but that didn't stop the craze from kicking into high gear. What do you guys think, Is this a form of terrorism like it? Should there be some burden of responsibility on individual like this? That is doing something that is legitimately terrorizing a town.

So eight days later, a filmmaker by the name of Adam Krause actually came forward and revealed that this was nothing but a marketing stunt. He and his crew were actually filming a short piece called Gags the Clown and Bloody Disgusting, which is a horror blog quoted Kraus as saying, we filmed the short and secret and released photos of the sightings quote quote because I wanted to convince my town that there was a creepy clown wandering the streets late at night. We released the pictures August first, twenty sixteen, and it blew up from that point on. It went viral very quickly. I announced that it was just a short film eight days later, but that didn't stop the craze from kicking into high gear. What do you guys think, Is this a form of terrorism like it? Should there be some burden of responsibility on individual like this? That is doing something that is legitimately terrorizing a town.

There's not a way to make it illegal.

There's not a way to make it illegal.

Yeah, I was gonna say. According to Captain Kevin Warwick Wryh of the Green Bay Police Department where this was first occurring, where gags made the appearances and the Facebook group started and everything, he said, this person is not breaking the law. He can walk in a clown costume anywhere he wants.

Yeah, I was gonna say. According to Captain Kevin Warwick Wryh of the Green Bay Police Department where this was first occurring, where gags made the appearances and the Facebook group started and everything, he said, this person is not breaking the law. He can walk in a clown costume anywhere he wants.

You can't call it like menacing or something like that. What point had something become menacing? I know that's a crime.

You can't call it like menacing or something like that. What point had something become menacing? I know that's a crime.

If someone's loitering, or if someone is giving the reasonable if there's reasonable suspicion or that they would be about to commit a crime, right, So, and that's tough to prosecute one. I don't want to lose this part though, because Kraus did say this is for my film.

If someone's loitering, or if someone is giving the reasonable if there's reasonable suspicion or that they would be about to commit a crime, right, So, and that's tough to prosecute one. I don't want to lose this part though, because Kraus did say this is for my film.

Yeah, after it's like known or whatever.

Yeah, after it's like known or whatever.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like every time we see a red meat headline in the news, only to see it corrected on page thirty two of the next issue of the paper, or thrown in at the very end and find print on a website for a broadcast news show. People just don't care about their attractions and there we go. All's well, that ends well, right, This wasn't the first time viral marketing had fooled unsuspecting denizens of the Internet or the media. Shout out to Blair Witch Project, which I think is one of the most famous recent examples. But those clown sightings did not stop in Green Bay, Wisconsin. In fact, they escalated kind of the way that you know one like one of my favorite songs in the Hall of Mountain King escalates du Da Dada.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like every time we see a red meat headline in the news, only to see it corrected on page thirty two of the next issue of the paper, or thrown in at the very end and find print on a website for a broadcast news show. People just don't care about their attractions and there we go. All's well, that ends well, right, This wasn't the first time viral marketing had fooled unsuspecting denizens of the Internet or the media. Shout out to Blair Witch Project, which I think is one of the most famous recent examples. But those clown sightings did not stop in Green Bay, Wisconsin. In fact, they escalated kind of the way that you know one like one of my favorite songs in the Hall of Mountain King escalates du Da Dada.

And things really did get weirder after that because it inspired not it inspired people, but it also made those creative juices flow about what could I do that would be even creepier.

And things really did get weirder after that because it inspired not it inspired people, but it also made those creative juices flow about what could I do that would be even creepier.

So we're going to pause here for our usual ad break. This one is a little different today because Matt, you and I were thinking about this. We're talking about this great clown panic, but one of today's sponsors is addressing a more personal panic that occurs to a lot of dudes around their thirties.

So we're going to pause here for our usual ad break. This one is a little different today because Matt, you and I were thinking about this. We're talking about this great clown panic, but one of today's sponsors is addressing a more personal panic that occurs to a lot of dudes around their thirties.

Right, you know, Ben, we've been talking about people panicking about things that are out there in the world that may or may not be real. We're gonna explore it a little more as we continue the episode. But something that is very real for a lot of men out there is the fear and panic involved with losing your hair.

Right, you know, Ben, we've been talking about people panicking about things that are out there in the world that may or may not be real. We're gonna explore it a little more as we continue the episode. But something that is very real for a lot of men out there is the fear and panic involved with losing your hair.

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Here's where it gets crazy. That's right. Clown sightings began to pop up all around the country, and they were unrelated to the short film from Wisconsin. The next widely reported creepy clown sightings occurred in Greenville, South Carolina.

Here's where it gets crazy. That's right. Clown sightings began to pop up all around the country, and they were unrelated to the short film from Wisconsin. The next widely reported creepy clown sightings occurred in Greenville, South Carolina.

Yeah, on August twenty first, twenty sixteen, there was an alleged clown sighting in Greenville at the Fleetwood Manor apartment complex. When I was originally reading this, I was really wishing it was at the Fleetwood Mac concert. That would have been cool. But no, in this complex, children reported witnessing clowns or a group of clowns. A murder of clowns. Is that we decided on a gaggle of clowns attempting to whisper or talk to the children. Now, that's got to be not cool, right, that's come on, that's.

Yeah, on August twenty first, twenty sixteen, there was an alleged clown sighting in Greenville at the Fleetwood Manor apartment complex. When I was originally reading this, I was really wishing it was at the Fleetwood Mac concert. That would have been cool. But no, in this complex, children reported witnessing clowns or a group of clowns. A murder of clowns. Is that we decided on a gaggle of clowns attempting to whisper or talk to the children. Now, that's got to be not cool, right, that's come on, that's.

Yeah, it's it's so it's so strange because at this point the the image and the role of a clown has been relegated to things like children's parties. Still that that's where you will maybe find a clown, or maybe at the circus or the rodeo, maybe a swingers club or my basement, but wherever it is.

Yeah, it's it's so it's so strange because at this point the the image and the role of a clown has been relegated to things like children's parties. Still that that's where you will maybe find a clown, or maybe at the circus or the rodeo, maybe a swingers club or my basement, but wherever it is.

Well, But culturally we've like flipped the script where now I think people first and foremost think of clowns as creepy demon child eaters as opposed to you know, friendly child performers.

Well, But culturally we've like flipped the script where now I think people first and foremost think of clowns as creepy demon child eaters as opposed to you know, friendly child performers.

We do.

We do.

But again, like, if you you can go online right now and hire a clown to do a children's party, that is one of the main things you can do. So if there are clowns out in let's say, in a part complex somewhere talking to kids, if you're not aware of some kids party that's happening, maybe that's all it is. I'm just saying it's it's tough because it also creeps me out personally, and I wouldn't like it if my son was there and saw some clowns that were trying to whisper to him.

But again, like, if you you can go online right now and hire a clown to do a children's party, that is one of the main things you can do. So if there are clowns out in let's say, in a part complex somewhere talking to kids, if you're not aware of some kids party that's happening, maybe that's all it is. I'm just saying it's it's tough because it also creeps me out personally, and I wouldn't like it if my son was there and saw some clowns that were trying to whisper to him.

Yeah, well, he's the thing of what they were whispering. And the children told their parents are the clowns who, by the way, were set up with these flashing green laser lights. They told the children that they lived in an abandoned house in the woods near a small lake.

Yeah, well, he's the thing of what they were whispering. And the children told their parents are the clowns who, by the way, were set up with these flashing green laser lights. They told the children that they lived in an abandoned house in the woods near a small lake.

As you do. Uh huh, small talk conversation.

As you do. Uh huh, small talk conversation.

Yeah.

Yeah.

See, that's where it becomes terrifying, right.

See, that's where it becomes terrifying, right.

And the police did investigate, and they did find a trail in the nearby woods, and the trail did lead to a house. There was a small lake by the house. But at this point, no evidence of clowns or any evidence of clown paraphernalia was ever found. So there wasn't even a bottle of seltzer or anything.

And the police did investigate, and they did find a trail in the nearby woods, and the trail did lead to a house. There was a small lake by the house. But at this point, no evidence of clowns or any evidence of clown paraphernalia was ever found. So there wasn't even a bottle of seltzer or anything.

That is so funny to me, no evidence of clowns was discovered.

That is so funny to me, no evidence of clowns was discovered.

I love or paraphernalia.

I love or paraphernalia.

I love that the notion of clown paraphernag like.

I love that the notion of clown paraphernag like.

There's one size sixteen shoe, Yeah, just on the trail. And this is strange because it's we we have to think of the children and the complex, and then we have to think of their families too. What do you do when the police throw up their hands and say, well, we we couldn't find any clowns or clown paraphernalia.

There's one size sixteen shoe, Yeah, just on the trail. And this is strange because it's we we have to think of the children and the complex, and then we have to think of their families too. What do you do when the police throw up their hands and say, well, we we couldn't find any clowns or clown paraphernalia.

Yeah, but we will be patrolling I guess for the next couple days.

Yeah, but we will be patrolling I guess for the next couple days.

We'll keep an eye out. South Carolina, though, is far from a unique case. Over the next few months, reports of creepy, suspicious sketch clowns popped up in every single US state and Puerto Rico as well. The Guardian was following this story. They had some great articles on this. They describe it thustly. They say clowns began to terrorize children and sometimes attack people, while commentators spoke of panic and hysteria. In Pennsylvania, a teenager was reported to have been murdered by someone in a clown mask, although police later said it was the victim who had the mask. So still, in this time of panic, just having a clown mask in play during the crime is enough for this to be lumped into lumped into the same phenomenon of reporting.

We'll keep an eye out. South Carolina, though, is far from a unique case. Over the next few months, reports of creepy, suspicious sketch clowns popped up in every single US state and Puerto Rico as well. The Guardian was following this story. They had some great articles on this. They describe it thustly. They say clowns began to terrorize children and sometimes attack people, while commentators spoke of panic and hysteria. In Pennsylvania, a teenager was reported to have been murdered by someone in a clown mask, although police later said it was the victim who had the mask. So still, in this time of panic, just having a clown mask in play during the crime is enough for this to be lumped into lumped into the same phenomenon of reporting.

Yeah, and you can see here where if something goes viral enough anywhere in the world and it gets shared enough on let's say international social media or internationally accessible social media, it's kind of what we've been talking about. You can see where people will think, oh, well, how do I make a post or something, or how do I make something happen in my local town that's also going to get me or this famous through my post, because it really did go fully international after that.

Yeah, and you can see here where if something goes viral enough anywhere in the world and it gets shared enough on let's say international social media or internationally accessible social media, it's kind of what we've been talking about. You can see where people will think, oh, well, how do I make a post or something, or how do I make something happen in my local town that's also going to get me or this famous through my post, because it really did go fully international after that.

Yeah, that's the thing. The spark was lit all in all people in eighteen. Different countries other than the US started reporting clown sightings over the course of twenty sixteen, and these were You know, it's weird because we know the panic in the US has a discrete start date. It's August first, twenty sixteen, but we also see some preceding attacks or similar instances in Europe. In twenty thirteen, there was a creepy clown sited in Northampton, England, and these sightings occurred in the town for two months September and October. They were also the work of filmmakers. But the stuff that we see happening after the US panic catches fire internationally. This stuff is genuine, like crime in Ontario and Canada, people dressed up as clowns and were chasing children and when they got dismissed from school, and then someone dressed as a clown was chasing down a group of people in Chile with a baseball bat. People started using clown makeup and clown mask as a go to disguise in their criminal endeavors.

Yeah, that's the thing. The spark was lit all in all people in eighteen. Different countries other than the US started reporting clown sightings over the course of twenty sixteen, and these were You know, it's weird because we know the panic in the US has a discrete start date. It's August first, twenty sixteen, but we also see some preceding attacks or similar instances in Europe. In twenty thirteen, there was a creepy clown sited in Northampton, England, and these sightings occurred in the town for two months September and October. They were also the work of filmmakers. But the stuff that we see happening after the US panic catches fire internationally. This stuff is genuine, like crime in Ontario and Canada, people dressed up as clowns and were chasing children and when they got dismissed from school, and then someone dressed as a clown was chasing down a group of people in Chile with a baseball bat. People started using clown makeup and clown mask as a go to disguise in their criminal endeavors.

Yeah, I was reading a story about in Norway people were reporting that they would see weapon wielding clowns chasing cars and stuff and apparently it really did catch on in a couple of places in Scandinavia.

Yeah, I was reading a story about in Norway people were reporting that they would see weapon wielding clowns chasing cars and stuff and apparently it really did catch on in a couple of places in Scandinavia.

Yeah, in Sweden and October twelfth there was someone dressed as a clown who stabbed a teenage boy with a knife, and there were some other stabbings across the world. Luckily these appeared to be isolated incidents. Here's the thing, though, the international community reacted pretty strongly to this. There was a protest held by professional clowns in a Rio Grande dus Soul in Brazil. And here I believe it's time for us to make a note. In the interest of fairness, we have to say hashtag not all clowns. There's a huge industry of people who work professionally as clowns, you know, in circus trained academy, dellate trained. And these folks have no interest in committing crimes, you know what I mean. And they certainly don't want to be saddled with the stereotype that they want to say. You know, it's a job for them. They're not going to dress up and wait in the woods to clown at children in the dark. That would be like us waiting waiting in the woods and then podcasting people hopefully less scary way more nerdy.

Yeah, in Sweden and October twelfth there was someone dressed as a clown who stabbed a teenage boy with a knife, and there were some other stabbings across the world. Luckily these appeared to be isolated incidents. Here's the thing, though, the international community reacted pretty strongly to this. There was a protest held by professional clowns in a Rio Grande dus Soul in Brazil. And here I believe it's time for us to make a note. In the interest of fairness, we have to say hashtag not all clowns. There's a huge industry of people who work professionally as clowns, you know, in circus trained academy, dellate trained. And these folks have no interest in committing crimes, you know what I mean. And they certainly don't want to be saddled with the stereotype that they want to say. You know, it's a job for them. They're not going to dress up and wait in the woods to clown at children in the dark. That would be like us waiting waiting in the woods and then podcasting people hopefully less scary way more nerdy.

Yeah, I mean no, you're right. It's a it's a profession and in a lot of times, in a lot of cases of passion for the individual. And there's a quote here from this article in sputneknews dot com and it says this trend has a really unpleasant impact on us as professionals of this art. I and my colleagues in this state appear at various events, for example, at birthday celebrations, and when we go out in the street or arrive at these celebrations, people are looking at us strangely, and you can imagine how that would affect you. And it goes on to say this has started to affect me. Customers are canceling work, replacing clowns with something else. This is one of the oldest professions in the world. Our goal is to bring joy to everybody, from babies to one hundred year olds.

Yeah, I mean no, you're right. It's a it's a profession and in a lot of times, in a lot of cases of passion for the individual. And there's a quote here from this article in sputneknews dot com and it says this trend has a really unpleasant impact on us as professionals of this art. I and my colleagues in this state appear at various events, for example, at birthday celebrations, and when we go out in the street or arrive at these celebrations, people are looking at us strangely, and you can imagine how that would affect you. And it goes on to say this has started to affect me. Customers are canceling work, replacing clowns with something else. This is one of the oldest professions in the world. Our goal is to bring joy to everybody, from babies to one hundred year olds.

And this is only one example of a larger global response. On October twelfth of twenty sixteen, the Russian Embassy in London put out an official warning to UK citizens and Russians alike because of the clown scare. So a country state department said, okay, if you're here in London watch Out for clowns.

And this is only one example of a larger global response. On October twelfth of twenty sixteen, the Russian Embassy in London put out an official warning to UK citizens and Russians alike because of the clown scare. So a country state department said, okay, if you're here in London watch Out for clowns.

Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to think of what it's akin to, like an orange alert watch out for smog kind of thing.

Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to think of what it's akin to, like an orange alert watch out for smog kind of thing.

Oh yeah, we need a clown watch.

Oh yeah, we need a clown watch.

The terror watch that we have while there.

The terror watch that we have while there.

Like, how many honks is it? You know, watch out? London is a four honk city, So out of context, that probably sounds very strange, but it's it's a good question. You know. This reached state actor level, and then also private industry responded. There were shops in New Zealand that stopped selling clown costumes or banned it. Many schools banned clown costumes or just yeah clown like stuff too, right, Yeah, and this also remember this is twenty sixteen, so this occurs hand in hand with public recognition of the music fan base, right the insane clown posse fans known as juggalos Yes, who also, by the way, did not have a big part in this, because again hashtag not all clowns.

Like, how many honks is it? You know, watch out? London is a four honk city, So out of context, that probably sounds very strange, but it's it's a good question. You know. This reached state actor level, and then also private industry responded. There were shops in New Zealand that stopped selling clown costumes or banned it. Many schools banned clown costumes or just yeah clown like stuff too, right, Yeah, and this also remember this is twenty sixteen, so this occurs hand in hand with public recognition of the music fan base, right the insane clown posse fans known as juggalos Yes, who also, by the way, did not have a big part in this, because again hashtag not all clowns.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So in October though, this starts to also hit one of the most popular clowns in the United States, Ronald McDonald is sent to the bench by his fast food owners because the heat got to him, he had to get a low profile was too hot for Ron, so he left the public eye for a little while because the last thing McDonald's wanted to be associated with was, you know, being bad in any way for children, other than, of course the food at McDonald's.

So in October though, this starts to also hit one of the most popular clowns in the United States, Ronald McDonald is sent to the bench by his fast food owners because the heat got to him, he had to get a low profile was too hot for Ron, so he left the public eye for a little while because the last thing McDonald's wanted to be associated with was, you know, being bad in any way for children, other than, of course the food at McDonald's.

Hey, they've changed their game a little bit.

Hey, they've changed their game a little bit.

Come on, and those fries still, man, they're great.

Come on, and those fries still, man, they're great.

And honestly, as weird as it sounds, those chicken mcnugs, I'm telling you.

And honestly, as weird as it sounds, those chicken mcnugs, I'm telling you.

You think it's nostalgia, No it's not.

You think it's nostalgia, No it's not.

It's not.

It's not.

Part of you is still there now.

Part of you is still there now.

I think they upped their game or something because we were very do isn't to get right. I'm not promoting McDonald's right now, I promise you. I'm just saying I tried one of their chicken McNuggets so that I did remember as a child not enjoying. But then they are much better now, That's all I'm saying.

I think they upped their game or something because we were very do isn't to get right. I'm not promoting McDonald's right now, I promise you. I'm just saying I tried one of their chicken McNuggets so that I did remember as a child not enjoying. But then they are much better now, That's all I'm saying.

Well, you know what, Matt, maybe I should give it. I should give it another shot. I read a really interesting essay about the shape of those McNuggets there. You know, their their specific shapes and how they're created. But I'll still try it. Also, Target pulled clown mask from all their stores and from their website, and people started to look at this in a critical analytical way. They said, Okay, these reports don't actually have much in common. They're occurring in various parts of the world that are very different from one another. They're often not every time, but often it appears there's no real law that was broken. It's just someone being creepy. In most cases amounted to something like, hey, there's a suspicious person or group of people dressed in a way that makes me uncomfortable. And another common trope was that these clowns appeared to be, as you said, no menacing people, and in many cases they were reported as giving chase, although sometimes the victims would change their story and say, I thought this clown was gonna chase me. It was just standing there.

Well, you know what, Matt, maybe I should give it. I should give it another shot. I read a really interesting essay about the shape of those McNuggets there. You know, their their specific shapes and how they're created. But I'll still try it. Also, Target pulled clown mask from all their stores and from their website, and people started to look at this in a critical analytical way. They said, Okay, these reports don't actually have much in common. They're occurring in various parts of the world that are very different from one another. They're often not every time, but often it appears there's no real law that was broken. It's just someone being creepy. In most cases amounted to something like, hey, there's a suspicious person or group of people dressed in a way that makes me uncomfortable. And another common trope was that these clowns appeared to be, as you said, no menacing people, and in many cases they were reported as giving chase, although sometimes the victims would change their story and say, I thought this clown was gonna chase me. It was just standing there.

But there's a ton of YouTube prank videos. Yeah, creepy clowns chasing people like.

But there's a ton of YouTube prank videos. Yeah, creepy clowns chasing people like.

A lot, and those are for humor, right, they're for humor.

A lot, and those are for humor, right, they're for humor.

But at the time, I'm assuming the person featured has to sign a release afterwards or something like that to be featured.

But at the time, I'm assuming the person featured has to sign a release afterwards or something like that to be featured.

But several of those the faces of the victims are so they didn't get permission. I would just say that that is illegal.

But several of those the faces of the victims are so they didn't get permission. I would just say that that is illegal.

That strikes me as illegal.

That strikes me as illegal.

That is a form of terrorism in a way, if you were going to scare someone out of their wits by dressing up as creepily as you can, setting up a camera and then chasing somebody while they are in fear for their life.

That is a form of terrorism in a way, if you were going to scare someone out of their wits by dressing up as creepily as you can, setting up a camera and then chasing somebody while they are in fear for their life.

And some people can see that as humorous, but we have to remember those folks who are being chased, or those folks who are being menaced, are genuinely frightened. You know, they're terrified.

And some people can see that as humorous, but we have to remember those folks who are being chased, or those folks who are being menaced, are genuinely frightened. You know, they're terrified.

And I would say, if you find that funny, maybe do some reevaluating.

And I would say, if you find that funny, maybe do some reevaluating.

That's all.

That's all.

Well, we can't emphasize this enough. There really were people dressed as clowns, and they really were stalking and in some cases attacking folks across the planet. By October twenty fifth, twenty sixteen, a little more than three years ago exactly now, as you're listening to this news pundits were so deep in this story that they started reporting and alleged to get this clown led purge or large scale attacks set to take place on Halloween. What's interesting about this kind of news story is that it really doesn't take much for something to be alleged. It could be an anonymous tip to the news station that has no follow up, So it could literally be anyone calling it's incredibly unethical. But it could also be someone from the news station who was like, we need some hot for Saturday. So luckily there were no documented wide scale purges. However, on October thirty, first Halloween twenty sixteen, a family in you guessed at, Florida was attacked in mass by a group of people dressed as clowns wearing clown mask. They were attacked by about twenty people.

Well, we can't emphasize this enough. There really were people dressed as clowns, and they really were stalking and in some cases attacking folks across the planet. By October twenty fifth, twenty sixteen, a little more than three years ago exactly now, as you're listening to this news pundits were so deep in this story that they started reporting and alleged to get this clown led purge or large scale attacks set to take place on Halloween. What's interesting about this kind of news story is that it really doesn't take much for something to be alleged. It could be an anonymous tip to the news station that has no follow up, So it could literally be anyone calling it's incredibly unethical. But it could also be someone from the news station who was like, we need some hot for Saturday. So luckily there were no documented wide scale purges. However, on October thirty, first Halloween twenty sixteen, a family in you guessed at, Florida was attacked in mass by a group of people dressed as clowns wearing clown mask. They were attacked by about twenty people.

That's insane. Allegedly, they were checking their car right when this happened was like eleven pm at night. Then all of a sudden, these people show up.

That's insane. Allegedly, they were checking their car right when this happened was like eleven pm at night. Then all of a sudden, these people show up.

Yeah. Look, you know we all have we all have a pretty good fortitude stats. You know, if we're D and D characters, we don't scare particularly easy. But even for us, getting run up on by twenty people, trust a clowns, that's a lot. That's a lot, especially if they are if they are armed blades or with you know, blunt objects or god forbid guns.

Yeah. Look, you know we all have we all have a pretty good fortitude stats. You know, if we're D and D characters, we don't scare particularly easy. But even for us, getting run up on by twenty people, trust a clowns, that's a lot. That's a lot, especially if they are if they are armed blades or with you know, blunt objects or god forbid guns.

Well, yeah, I mean one of the people. Okay, So let's just talk about that. It was a it was a group of people in a car. I think it was five people in a car, maybe more, and they like hit something in the car. Right, they're in their truck. They're in this big truck. They hit something in the truck. They got out to check out what it was. They got As they exited their vehicle to check on everything, they get attacked by a bunch of people wearing masks, some of them clown asked. Some of them appear to be what they would call purge masks. One of the victims got stabbed in the head and another one got hit in the head with a hockey stick. It was a real brutal attack, that is this is just an awful thing that occurred. And apparently one of the one of the victims, one of the people who got attacked, recognized some team that was a part of the.

Well, yeah, I mean one of the people. Okay, So let's just talk about that. It was a it was a group of people in a car. I think it was five people in a car, maybe more, and they like hit something in the car. Right, they're in their truck. They're in this big truck. They hit something in the truck. They got out to check out what it was. They got As they exited their vehicle to check on everything, they get attacked by a bunch of people wearing masks, some of them clown asked. Some of them appear to be what they would call purge masks. One of the victims got stabbed in the head and another one got hit in the head with a hockey stick. It was a real brutal attack, that is this is just an awful thing that occurred. And apparently one of the one of the victims, one of the people who got attacked, recognized some team that was a part of the.

Group, right yeah. Jeff Brown, who is one of the victims, said that the group of clowns had a knife, hockey sticks, clubs, bats, and he was He said they were probably just looking for anyone who would get stopped at the light. And he said they was able to lift one of the masks of a team off in the struggle and recognize the kid as a kid from his neighborhood. As far as we know, no arrest were made, at least at the time of the stories reporting, so we don't know what happened with that. But we bring this example here to emphasize that unlikes the Unlike some other outbreaks of hysteria or global panics, there were genuine crimes happening here. There were people conspiring to dress up as clowns and attack maybe random people, maybe people that they had their eye on for one reason or another. So these sightings were real. But what exactly was happening. We'll attempt to answer that after a word from our sponsors. Okay, so was the I'll say it, I'll take the bullet on this one. Was this actually some sort of I can't believe I'm saying this clown conspiracy to upset the status quo in some way through random acts of violence?

Group, right yeah. Jeff Brown, who is one of the victims, said that the group of clowns had a knife, hockey sticks, clubs, bats, and he was He said they were probably just looking for anyone who would get stopped at the light. And he said they was able to lift one of the masks of a team off in the struggle and recognize the kid as a kid from his neighborhood. As far as we know, no arrest were made, at least at the time of the stories reporting, so we don't know what happened with that. But we bring this example here to emphasize that unlikes the Unlike some other outbreaks of hysteria or global panics, there were genuine crimes happening here. There were people conspiring to dress up as clowns and attack maybe random people, maybe people that they had their eye on for one reason or another. So these sightings were real. But what exactly was happening. We'll attempt to answer that after a word from our sponsors. Okay, so was the I'll say it, I'll take the bullet on this one. Was this actually some sort of I can't believe I'm saying this clown conspiracy to upset the status quo in some way through random acts of violence?

Yeah, like a Project Mayhem type thing, but with clowns maybe?

Yeah, like a Project Mayhem type thing, but with clowns maybe?

Yeah? Maybe? I mean, was this perhaps some sort of Juggalo esque protest. Again, as far as we know, the Juggalo community was not involved with this panic, but you know what I mean, Like, was it some sort of thing that got spun into a different narrative by the media, or was this just another example of mass hysteria like the satanic panic, you know, like as we learned in our recent True True Detective episode, which is still either my least or my most favorite title recently, as we learned there there's often more to the story than we see reported in the news. To answer our question about this phenomenon, it's actually best for us to begin from a folklore angle. There's a guy named Benjamin Radford go Benz who is the author of a book called Bad Clowns, and in his work, Radford busts some myths that we have about clowning in the modern day. Specifically, he writes, it is misleading to ask when clowns turned bad, they were never real good, because although the word chorophobia comes about in the nineties, the thing is clowns have been around forever in myth and folklore, in unrelated cultures. People who had never met before they had things like clowns, but they were often antagonistic. They were deceivers, they were tricksters. They were associated with entering the edge of the edge of civilization, speaking hidden truths. They were associated with infernal powers at times, and Let's also consider Alex Pentlands, author of a book called Social Physics, How Good Ideas Spread. He says the clown phenomenon is in some ways just the standard craze. He compares it actually to planking. You guys remember planking.

Yeah? Maybe? I mean, was this perhaps some sort of Juggalo esque protest. Again, as far as we know, the Juggalo community was not involved with this panic, but you know what I mean, Like, was it some sort of thing that got spun into a different narrative by the media, or was this just another example of mass hysteria like the satanic panic, you know, like as we learned in our recent True True Detective episode, which is still either my least or my most favorite title recently, as we learned there there's often more to the story than we see reported in the news. To answer our question about this phenomenon, it's actually best for us to begin from a folklore angle. There's a guy named Benjamin Radford go Benz who is the author of a book called Bad Clowns, and in his work, Radford busts some myths that we have about clowning in the modern day. Specifically, he writes, it is misleading to ask when clowns turned bad, they were never real good, because although the word chorophobia comes about in the nineties, the thing is clowns have been around forever in myth and folklore, in unrelated cultures. People who had never met before they had things like clowns, but they were often antagonistic. They were deceivers, they were tricksters. They were associated with entering the edge of the edge of civilization, speaking hidden truths. They were associated with infernal powers at times, and Let's also consider Alex Pentlands, author of a book called Social Physics, How Good Ideas Spread. He says the clown phenomenon is in some ways just the standard craze. He compares it actually to planking. You guys remember planking.

Yeah, that's when you delay flat on a thing, right.

Yeah, that's when you delay flat on a thing, right.

Yeah, And I walked in our old office one time. I walked into our rec room and I learned about planking because as least as an exercise, because I saw about fifteen or more of our colleagues, not speaking, just laying on the floor, propped on their elbows, and I didn't know what to do. But I stood there for a second. No one said anything, no one looked at me, and so I decided the most prudent move was to walk out backwards, and that's what I did.

Yeah, And I walked in our old office one time. I walked into our rec room and I learned about planking because as least as an exercise, because I saw about fifteen or more of our colleagues, not speaking, just laying on the floor, propped on their elbows, and I didn't know what to do. But I stood there for a second. No one said anything, no one looked at me, and so I decided the most prudent move was to walk out backwards, and that's what I did.

Definitely keep an eye on everyone.

Definitely keep an eye on everyone.

It was like a flash mob type phenomenon for a while. Whe people would like plank on different things, like a cabinet or something, and you'd walk in. It was an episode of the Office about it. Hm hmm, that's that's all I got on planking.

It was like a flash mob type phenomenon for a while. Whe people would like plank on different things, like a cabinet or something, and you'd walk in. It was an episode of the Office about it. Hm hmm, that's that's all I got on planking.

Well, yeah, but it just speaks to a larger thing when it's kind of what I was saying earlier, when there's a trending phenomena like that, it is in our nature to want to be a part of the group, and you know, glom onto it in a way or show your uniqueness by doing this thing in a way that only you would do or could do. And you know, we're we're just basically comparing that, And it's kind of what Pentland is doing here saying that this is what the clown thing was. It was another ice bucket challenge.

Well, yeah, but it just speaks to a larger thing when it's kind of what I was saying earlier, when there's a trending phenomena like that, it is in our nature to want to be a part of the group, and you know, glom onto it in a way or show your uniqueness by doing this thing in a way that only you would do or could do. And you know, we're we're just basically comparing that, And it's kind of what Pentland is doing here saying that this is what the clown thing was. It was another ice bucket challenge.

Right right. But he also said this fad, this clown sighting craze also hit upon a deeply buried cultural meme. He said, children are scared of clowns, so this gives it more virality than another thing like an ice bucket challenge. Not you know, more people were probably terrified of clowns than are of ice buckets.

Right right. But he also said this fad, this clown sighting craze also hit upon a deeply buried cultural meme. He said, children are scared of clowns, so this gives it more virality than another thing like an ice bucket challenge. Not you know, more people were probably terrified of clowns than are of ice buckets.

Did you hear that the ice bucket challenge is a conspiracy theory about it?

Did you hear that the ice bucket challenge is a conspiracy theory about it?

I did, Yeah, yeah, yeah, what is it?

I did, Yeah, yeah, yeah, what is it?

There's a say I think it was just this one kind of fringy writer Selina Owen's on a world Net daily accusing it of being some sort of satanic ritual tricking people into I don't know, exactly. The logic is there, But you can you can you can call anything. Any of these viral phenomenon could be construed to some sort of mass ritual, right, I mean that's sort of what it is. Is people glom onto it and they recreate it, like the flash mobs versus the creepy clowns versus the planking, any of that kind of stuff. You could look at as some sort of weird collective, unconscious kind of like dance.

There's a say I think it was just this one kind of fringy writer Selina Owen's on a world Net daily accusing it of being some sort of satanic ritual tricking people into I don't know, exactly. The logic is there, But you can you can you can call anything. Any of these viral phenomenon could be construed to some sort of mass ritual, right, I mean that's sort of what it is. Is people glom onto it and they recreate it, like the flash mobs versus the creepy clowns versus the planking, any of that kind of stuff. You could look at as some sort of weird collective, unconscious kind of like dance.

Right.

Right.

I don't know, anything can be a ritual, and anything could be a satanic ritual, you know, if you have the right attitude about it. Isn't magic all about intentionality in theory? That's a callback to uh, what was that our magic debate on Harmontown. Yeah, So with this in mind, when we look at it from a folkloric perspective, we see another salient point. Also from the Guardian, again they cover this like four or five different times, and they said they also attributed part of the panic to the ways in which it was described by print and broadcast media. They said, consider how charged the vocabulary of the reports will be when you hear this on your evening news. They don't say someone saw a clown. They refer to these things as sightings. Yeah, the same way you would say someone cited there was a UFO sighting or a locknest sighting, And it mythologizes these human beings when really they're just people in costumes.

I don't know, anything can be a ritual, and anything could be a satanic ritual, you know, if you have the right attitude about it. Isn't magic all about intentionality in theory? That's a callback to uh, what was that our magic debate on Harmontown. Yeah, So with this in mind, when we look at it from a folkloric perspective, we see another salient point. Also from the Guardian, again they cover this like four or five different times, and they said they also attributed part of the panic to the ways in which it was described by print and broadcast media. They said, consider how charged the vocabulary of the reports will be when you hear this on your evening news. They don't say someone saw a clown. They refer to these things as sightings. Yeah, the same way you would say someone cited there was a UFO sighting or a locknest sighting, And it mythologizes these human beings when really they're just people in costumes.

Yeah, and they can do it wherever they want as long as they're not hurting anybody.

Yeah, and they can do it wherever they want as long as they're not hurting anybody.

And then the idea. Okay, So the Mirror over in the UK reports this, you know, in the early days of the panic spreading to the United Kingdom, they say, quote in one of their headlines, creepy clowns approach girls walking to school and terrifying UK craze was this was a variant of the first sentence in the article, because the first sentence in the article in the or says two schoolgirls were approached by two creepy clowns yesterday as the terrifying American craze hits the UK. It's true that it was already quote American craze, but the headline calling it a terrifying UK craze wasn't true because there had only been a couple of incidents. Yeah, how many incidents make a craze? Right? Like when when does a hill become a mountain kind of question.

And then the idea. Okay, So the Mirror over in the UK reports this, you know, in the early days of the panic spreading to the United Kingdom, they say, quote in one of their headlines, creepy clowns approach girls walking to school and terrifying UK craze was this was a variant of the first sentence in the article, because the first sentence in the article in the or says two schoolgirls were approached by two creepy clowns yesterday as the terrifying American craze hits the UK. It's true that it was already quote American craze, but the headline calling it a terrifying UK craze wasn't true because there had only been a couple of incidents. Yeah, how many incidents make a craze? Right? Like when when does a hill become a mountain kind of question.

Right after it's a mole hill, right, it goes straight from mole hill to mountain.

Right after it's a mole hill, right, it goes straight from mole hill to mountain.

And what's the size of a heap? You know what I mean. Yeah, there's linguistic ambiguity there, But it also could be kind of a self fulfilling prophecy to call this thing a craze before it happens. I mean, you know, if Paul Mission controlled Decan and I go to Applebee's after this, and then we start calling it the new Applebee's craze that's sweeping the nation, would more people be likely to go because they want to To your point, Matt, be part of the conversation.

And what's the size of a heap? You know what I mean. Yeah, there's linguistic ambiguity there, But it also could be kind of a self fulfilling prophecy to call this thing a craze before it happens. I mean, you know, if Paul Mission controlled Decan and I go to Applebee's after this, and then we start calling it the new Applebee's craze that's sweeping the nation, would more people be likely to go because they want to To your point, Matt, be part of the conversation.

I think you're right. I think you might have to add in a few more people. If you've got like five posts that said the new Applebee's craze, I think you've got something going there.

I think you're right. I think you might have to add in a few more people. If you've got like five posts that said the new Applebee's craze, I think you've got something going there.

Not an advertisement for Applebee's, right, nor McDonald's nor McDonald's. But in this case, what we see, what we see very quickly is the clown stuff itself is exactly as we described. It's sort of a viral phenomenon that to your point, no people glombed onto sometimes to assist in the execution of crimes they were already probably planning to do. In other cases, it was people who said, we want to prank some folks. But when we look into the psychological causes, the socio political environment and soil in which this thing exists and grows, then we see there's more to the story. We've talked about this before, and this is probably just my own crippling cynicism. But anytime I see something that is not terrible go viral, I assume that it's being pushed to cover up some real horrific, terrible thing happening.

Not an advertisement for Applebee's, right, nor McDonald's nor McDonald's. But in this case, what we see, what we see very quickly is the clown stuff itself is exactly as we described. It's sort of a viral phenomenon that to your point, no people glombed onto sometimes to assist in the execution of crimes they were already probably planning to do. In other cases, it was people who said, we want to prank some folks. But when we look into the psychological causes, the socio political environment and soil in which this thing exists and grows, then we see there's more to the story. We've talked about this before, and this is probably just my own crippling cynicism. But anytime I see something that is not terrible go viral, I assume that it's being pushed to cover up some real horrific, terrible thing happening.

I don't think you're far off, Ben, you know, so, No, No, although it is hard to predict virality, I will say that, yeah, you know the intentions, it may be that, but it's like no one can guarantee a viral smash. Otherwise, you know, they'd be hiring those people left and right.

I don't think you're far off, Ben, you know, so, No, No, although it is hard to predict virality, I will say that, yeah, you know the intentions, it may be that, but it's like no one can guarantee a viral smash. Otherwise, you know, they'd be hiring those people left and right.

So I've got a theory about this whole thing that I want to present to you guys, all right, laid on me. Okay, here are the facts of Matt's theory.

So I've got a theory about this whole thing that I want to present to you guys, all right, laid on me. Okay, here are the facts of Matt's theory.

This we call the section Matt's facts.

This we call the section Matt's facts.

Yes, sure, this is the These are Matt's facts. So we've got the gags the clown incident that occurs when is it October? Is it October or is it September twenty sixteen?

Yes, sure, this is the These are Matt's facts. So we've got the gags the clown incident that occurs when is it October? Is it October or is it September twenty sixteen?

Though right, the first one occurs in Green Bay, Wisconsin, August first, twenty sixteen.

Though right, the first one occurs in Green Bay, Wisconsin, August first, twenty sixteen.

So that's August early August twenty six, twenty sixteen. Then almost a year later, a year and a month later, the remake of Stephen King's It comes out, a major Hollywood production with massive marketing arms behind it. Okay, it would be beneficial for the people making it to reignite people's fear of clowns.

So that's August early August twenty six, twenty sixteen. Then almost a year later, a year and a month later, the remake of Stephen King's It comes out, a major Hollywood production with massive marketing arms behind it. Okay, it would be beneficial for the people making it to reignite people's fear of clowns.

Well, you know about the phony clown protest, Right, the phony clown protest was phony. According to Vanity Fair, a clown rally against the IT movie was actually a publicity stunt for the IT movie. The new IT adaptations have probably been causing problems for real life clowns, whose businesses have allegedly suffered as a whole new generation of kids sour to Bozo's of the world, so it was hardly surprised when clowns planned to gather and rally against It in New York. It turns out, however, that the rally was a fake, nothing more than a publicity stun in promotion of the very movie it claimed to be raging against.

Well, you know about the phony clown protest, Right, the phony clown protest was phony. According to Vanity Fair, a clown rally against the IT movie was actually a publicity stunt for the IT movie. The new IT adaptations have probably been causing problems for real life clowns, whose businesses have allegedly suffered as a whole new generation of kids sour to Bozo's of the world, so it was hardly surprised when clowns planned to gather and rally against It in New York. It turns out, however, that the rally was a fake, nothing more than a publicity stun in promotion of the very movie it claimed to be raging against.

See. So this is what I'm saying, you guys, What if this entire thing, starting with gags and the short film or whatever was occurring, there was all away to get clowns back into our zeitgeist immediately the forefront of our minds, so that it would come out and we would have to go see it.

See. So this is what I'm saying, you guys, What if this entire thing, starting with gags and the short film or whatever was occurring, there was all away to get clowns back into our zeitgeist immediately the forefront of our minds, so that it would come out and we would have to go see it.

That's interesting. I don't I'm honest. I'm gonna be honest with you, man, I don't know if I'm one hundred percent on board with it, because it feels like when real acts of violence started to occur, the company or studio involved would want to distance themselves.

That's interesting. I don't I'm honest. I'm gonna be honest with you, man, I don't know if I'm one hundred percent on board with it, because it feels like when real acts of violence started to occur, the company or studio involved would want to distance themselves.

Well, that's why they never admitted to doing it. That's why they never admitted to starting the whole craze. See.

Well, that's why they never admitted to doing it. That's why they never admitted to starting the whole craze. See.

Okay, so there on a we didn't start the fire y.

Okay, so there on a we didn't start the fire y.

Yeah, they went, oh, oh, somebody got stabbed in the head.

Yeah, they went, oh, oh, somebody got stabbed in the head.

We're out, and we're out. Nobody say anything until the trailer releases. I mean maybe maybe perhaps I will say though, because I know I'm sounding a bit conspiratorial here and it is just my opinion, I will say that now more than ever to steal the line from Fox News. Yet again, it is now more than ever, it is surprisingly easy for some people to influence virality and to determine which stories are seen. If anyone listening believes that Mark Zuckerberg cannot literally ping someone at Facebook and say kill this story and promote this one, then you are being offensively naive like that. Because there's so few people who control the faucets of information at this point, then clearly it could happen. I'm not saying it does. I'm not saying this is a case in which that occurs. But I'm saying the reality is there, and to think otherwise is at this point to be wilfully ignorant of the reality.