Welcome back to the show, fellow conspiracy realist. This classic is rounded out our weekend of classics today, and we were going through our files and archives and we wanted to find something a little bit holiday esque. You know. We had a couple choices, the origins of Christmas that's still a banger, but we landed on this one. When a lot of people think of Christmas, the Christmas holiday, they also think of, you know, angels, we have heard wild high or excuse me, angels, we have heard on high.

Welcome back to the show, fellow conspiracy realist. This classic is rounded out our weekend of classics today, and we were going through our files and archives and we wanted to find something a little bit holiday esque. You know. We had a couple choices, the origins of Christmas that's still a banger, but we landed on this one. When a lot of people think of Christmas, the Christmas holiday, they also think of, you know, angels, we have heard wild high or excuse me, angels, we have heard on high.

There we go the potato potato, my friend, No, it's true. And the idea of the voice of an angel, right, that's a concept usually referring to someone who could sing beautifully, but sometimes the voice of an angel might liquefy your insides with the sheer velocity and power. Have you guys seen the OA. That's the show about, like angels and their powers. Really interesting stuff and not at all what people maybe always associate with these beautiful winged creatures.

There we go the potato potato, my friend, No, it's true. And the idea of the voice of an angel, right, that's a concept usually referring to someone who could sing beautifully, but sometimes the voice of an angel might liquefy your insides with the sheer velocity and power. Have you guys seen the OA. That's the show about, like angels and their powers. Really interesting stuff and not at all what people maybe always associate with these beautiful winged creatures.

That's one of the things in the Bible, right, if you get too close to God, or if you actually heard God, you know, or his messengers, you're probably gonna die, or it's not gonna go well for you at least.

That's one of the things in the Bible, right, if you get too close to God, or if you actually heard God, you know, or his messengers, you're probably gonna die, or it's not gonna go well for you at least.

So this is some weird stuff and we are going to meet good friend of the show, John d in his exploration Yeah it's true, we text in his explorations of what is called the Enochian language.

So this is some weird stuff and we are going to meet good friend of the show, John d in his exploration Yeah it's true, we text in his explorations of what is called the Enochian language.

Let's jump in from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

Let's jump in from UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Nolan.

Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my name is Nolan.

They call me Ben. We are joined with our super producer Paul miss Control decad. Most importantly, you are you. You are here that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Longtime listeners, you'll note that recently we have been exploring some things that are more of the modern world. Corporate cover ups, ongoing investigations into hidden burial places and things of that nature, many of which do point to genuine conspiracies, not conspiracy theories, but genuine conspiracies. Today we are delving into something a little bit different. We're delving into a realm of spirituality, a realm of allegedly magic, and the area wherein science, magic and linguistics are said to converge. Let's start with angels today. Angels, at least in the Western world, have a pretty solidified image. You know, most people in the West, if you ask them just immediately to describe what an angel looks like, unless they've done some further reading, they're going to picture a humanoid being, probably in a flowing robe or maybe nude, but androgynous and shining brightly.

They call me Ben. We are joined with our super producer Paul miss Control decad. Most importantly, you are you. You are here that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Longtime listeners, you'll note that recently we have been exploring some things that are more of the modern world. Corporate cover ups, ongoing investigations into hidden burial places and things of that nature, many of which do point to genuine conspiracies, not conspiracy theories, but genuine conspiracies. Today we are delving into something a little bit different. We're delving into a realm of spirituality, a realm of allegedly magic, and the area wherein science, magic and linguistics are said to converge. Let's start with angels today. Angels, at least in the Western world, have a pretty solidified image. You know, most people in the West, if you ask them just immediately to describe what an angel looks like, unless they've done some further reading, they're going to picture a humanoid being, probably in a flowing robe or maybe nude, but androgynous and shining brightly.

There's a lot of white involved, a.

There's a lot of white involved, a.

Pair of large feathered wings, maybe multiple pairs sprouting from the back. And sometimes the angel will also have a halo or a harp, a halo being a circle of light, sometimes depicted as a band of some shiny golden metal above their head. This of course, does not match one to one with many biblical descriptions of angels, which this is something you'll appreciate.

Pair of large feathered wings, maybe multiple pairs sprouting from the back. And sometimes the angel will also have a halo or a harp, a halo being a circle of light, sometimes depicted as a band of some shiny golden metal above their head. This of course, does not match one to one with many biblical descriptions of angels, which this is something you'll appreciate.

Matt.

Matt.

From the X Files, there is a fantastic depiction of an angel in an episode on the Nephelom. Do you remember that one with the sickly children?

From the X Files, there is a fantastic depiction of an angel in an episode on the Nephelom. Do you remember that one with the sickly children?

Yeah? Man, it's a little hazy for me, but that sounds familiar. Are they were the sickly children the Nephilim? Yes, they were like children, or they were actually Nephelim.

Yeah? Man, it's a little hazy for me, but that sounds familiar. Are they were the sickly children the Nephilim? Yes, they were like children, or they were actually Nephelim.

They were spoiler alert, Yeah, they were actually Nephelim, and they had these mysterious genetic disorders, but they were being murdered one by one by a divine agent, which was an angel. And towards the very end spoiler alert, here's your chance to turn back now three two one spoilers. Toward the end of the episode, where you actually see this creature attacking someone, its faces shift because in some biblical descriptions of angels they have multiple faces. And of course there are many many different types of angels depending on which civilization or culture you are investigating.

They were spoiler alert, Yeah, they were actually Nephelim, and they had these mysterious genetic disorders, but they were being murdered one by one by a divine agent, which was an angel. And towards the very end spoiler alert, here's your chance to turn back now three two one spoilers. Toward the end of the episode, where you actually see this creature attacking someone, its faces shift because in some biblical descriptions of angels they have multiple faces. And of course there are many many different types of angels depending on which civilization or culture you are investigating.

Man, I was certain you were going to say it was the chupacabra all along.

Man, I was certain you were going to say it was the chupacabra all along.

There is a chupacabra episode of X Files, and I believe in that episode three to one spoilers is a It is a fungal agent, an infection creates Chewbacabra. I believe someone That may be a different show, but there's so many X Files episodes.

There is a chupacabra episode of X Files, and I believe in that episode three to one spoilers is a It is a fungal agent, an infection creates Chewbacabra. I believe someone That may be a different show, but there's so many X Files episodes.

I have to say. Nephilim sounds like a great name for a metal band. It does not even exist, and the Sickly Children great name for an album by said metal band.

I have to say. Nephilim sounds like a great name for a metal band. It does not even exist, and the Sickly Children great name for an album by said metal band.

Yeah, Nephlhem is a band, Yeah.

Yeah, Nephlhem is a band, Yeah.

Yes, okay, of course I believe that episode of Exiles we're referencing was called All Souls. Yes, yes, I do remember that episode.

Yes, okay, of course I believe that episode of Exiles we're referencing was called All Souls. Yes, yes, I do remember that episode.

And they're not as good as the writers of X Files are at this time. They are not making this up out of whole cloth, as the Idom goes. Instead, they are cribbing from beliefs of ancient civilizations far older, by the way, than the religions of the book, far older than Islam, Judaism, or Christianity. In fact, most ancient civilizations in the world believed in this concept of angels or something very much like them, benevolent spirits representing a more powerful deities. So they were almost like minor deities. They could do little miracles. They were not as powerful as God, or not as powerful as whatever the supreme final boss deity was in a belief system, but they had a heck of a lot more agency and power than mortals. Well maybe agency is a tough word. There huge argument about angels and free will that dates back to the beginning of a lot of myths, So it's important to note here that not all angels are necessarily good. We're gonna bust an angel stereotype today we'll get to that later on in today's episode. Here's this is fascinating. So while the belief in angels or something like these benevolent intercessing spirits may be ancient, it persists in the modern day, and the statistics may surprise some of us listening. According to a twenty eleven poll that was published by CBS, seventy seven percent of adult in the United States believe angels are real. This is usually, of course, tied to religion. Eighty eight percent of people identifying as Christian and ninety five percent of people identifying as evangelical Christians, along with ninety four percent of people who attend weekly religious services of some sort, say yes they believe in angels. I'm gonna pause here because that's a that's a tricky question. That statistic is worth challenging because it all depends upon how the question is asked. Yeah, you know what I mean. I think if you simply say, hey, do you If you're catching people right outside of a church service as they're on their way out, and they say, do you believe in angels, it's safe to say, just based on how human psychology works, they're very much They're much more likely to say yes.

And they're not as good as the writers of X Files are at this time. They are not making this up out of whole cloth, as the Idom goes. Instead, they are cribbing from beliefs of ancient civilizations far older, by the way, than the religions of the book, far older than Islam, Judaism, or Christianity. In fact, most ancient civilizations in the world believed in this concept of angels or something very much like them, benevolent spirits representing a more powerful deities. So they were almost like minor deities. They could do little miracles. They were not as powerful as God, or not as powerful as whatever the supreme final boss deity was in a belief system, but they had a heck of a lot more agency and power than mortals. Well maybe agency is a tough word. There huge argument about angels and free will that dates back to the beginning of a lot of myths, So it's important to note here that not all angels are necessarily good. We're gonna bust an angel stereotype today we'll get to that later on in today's episode. Here's this is fascinating. So while the belief in angels or something like these benevolent intercessing spirits may be ancient, it persists in the modern day, and the statistics may surprise some of us listening. According to a twenty eleven poll that was published by CBS, seventy seven percent of adult in the United States believe angels are real. This is usually, of course, tied to religion. Eighty eight percent of people identifying as Christian and ninety five percent of people identifying as evangelical Christians, along with ninety four percent of people who attend weekly religious services of some sort, say yes they believe in angels. I'm gonna pause here because that's a that's a tricky question. That statistic is worth challenging because it all depends upon how the question is asked. Yeah, you know what I mean. I think if you simply say, hey, do you If you're catching people right outside of a church service as they're on their way out, and they say, do you believe in angels, it's safe to say, just based on how human psychology works, they're very much They're much more likely to say yes.

There's all there's social pressure in that environment. If you did it that way, that's true. Agree and say uh yes, yes, of course I do.

There's all there's social pressure in that environment. If you did it that way, that's true. Agree and say uh yes, yes, of course I do.

And there so often seems to be such an all or nothing approach to that flavor of religion. Sorry, flavor is a weird choice of words, but do you know what I mean?

And there so often seems to be such an all or nothing approach to that flavor of religion. Sorry, flavor is a weird choice of words, but do you know what I mean?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Like, it certainly feels like people would be encouraged to not just take the bits they like, but you have to believe in all of the lore and every part of what's in the Bible as being the.

Like, it certainly feels like people would be encouraged to not just take the bits they like, but you have to believe in all of the lore and every part of what's in the Bible as being the.

Truth, or at least say you do. Because let's not forget there's a lot of cherry picking from various religions. I mean, tale as old as time. But one of my favorite examples is this author who wrote a book called Living Biblically. Have you guys heard of this book?

Truth, or at least say you do. Because let's not forget there's a lot of cherry picking from various religions. I mean, tale as old as time. But one of my favorite examples is this author who wrote a book called Living Biblically. Have you guys heard of this book?

I have not. Oh wait, is this the one where he lives according to Leviticus the teachings of the Bible for a period of time and like wears his beard long and all of that stuff. What's the guy's name, AJJJ Jacobs. He was on Part Time Genius talking about.

I have not. Oh wait, is this the one where he lives according to Leviticus the teachings of the Bible for a period of time and like wears his beard long and all of that stuff. What's the guy's name, AJJJ Jacobs. He was on Part Time Genius talking about.

This The Year of Living Biblically. One man's humble quest to follow the Bible as literally as possible. He runs into a lot of stuff that was treated with great import you know, but is generally not followed in today's modern age by most people who would consider themselves practitioners of Christianity or practitioners of a faith of the Book of the Abramaic variety. He ran into. One of the ones that was the most surprising to me was when he ran into the ban against wearing two different types of fabric. Yeah, that was a big deal. You were not supposed to do that. And so often, even people who feel that they are following the letter and the spirit of the law as determined by these religious works, they'll skip some stuff, you know what I mean. They'll have some some polyester, I'll have some nylon or whatever the band fabrics are.

This The Year of Living Biblically. One man's humble quest to follow the Bible as literally as possible. He runs into a lot of stuff that was treated with great import you know, but is generally not followed in today's modern age by most people who would consider themselves practitioners of Christianity or practitioners of a faith of the Book of the Abramaic variety. He ran into. One of the ones that was the most surprising to me was when he ran into the ban against wearing two different types of fabric. Yeah, that was a big deal. You were not supposed to do that. And so often, even people who feel that they are following the letter and the spirit of the law as determined by these religious works, they'll skip some stuff, you know what I mean. They'll have some some polyester, I'll have some nylon or whatever the band fabrics are.

But you gotta do what you gotta do.

But you gotta do what you gotta do.

Man, you gotta do what you gotta do. But it may well surprise a lot of people to find that, at least according to this study, the belief in angels is so prevalent in this increasingly secular world. So we have to ask ourselves, what is it about angels that so captures human imagination? Even now in twenty nineteen, and to answer that question, we have to continue Maybe busting myths is not a good choice words here, but we have to continue clarifying what angels were historically and how they became so closely associated with that cultural icon of the flowing robes and the harp and the halo, which again, just it reminds me of how Coca Cola managed to codify the appearance of Santa Claus. Oh yeah, yeah, it's true, it's true story. But here are the fact So yay. First off, where does the name angel come from?

Man, you gotta do what you gotta do. But it may well surprise a lot of people to find that, at least according to this study, the belief in angels is so prevalent in this increasingly secular world. So we have to ask ourselves, what is it about angels that so captures human imagination? Even now in twenty nineteen, and to answer that question, we have to continue Maybe busting myths is not a good choice words here, but we have to continue clarifying what angels were historically and how they became so closely associated with that cultural icon of the flowing robes and the harp and the halo, which again, just it reminds me of how Coca Cola managed to codify the appearance of Santa Claus. Oh yeah, yeah, it's true, it's true story. But here are the fact So yay. First off, where does the name angel come from?

Well, the word itself is derived from the Greek word angelos, which means messenger. Malik, the Hebrew word for angel, also means messenger. In both words quite neatly fit in with the Persian word for angel, which is angaros, similarly meaning a courier. Mm hmm.

Well, the word itself is derived from the Greek word angelos, which means messenger. Malik, the Hebrew word for angel, also means messenger. In both words quite neatly fit in with the Persian word for angel, which is angaros, similarly meaning a courier. Mm hmm.

So this so we know now that all of the earlier uses of this concept meant someone who brings a message.

So this so we know now that all of the earlier uses of this concept meant someone who brings a message.

Right, yeah, it's not servant or child or you know, any of these other things that you kind of sometimes are ascribed to angels, like the children of God in some way, the offspring of God, the servants of God. No, these are messengers of God.

Right, yeah, it's not servant or child or you know, any of these other things that you kind of sometimes are ascribed to angels, like the children of God in some way, the offspring of God, the servants of God. No, these are messengers of God.

And the various similarities between these preceding words and phrases has led some researchers to speculate that the earliest form of what we would call angel comes from a Sinian linear b script, a Caro. And this leads us to one of the most important crucial things we have to establish here if we haven't, if we haven't clearly said it already, the belief in angels or beings like them is in no way restricted to the Abramaic religions. We just tend to hear about this viewpoint, at least the four of us, Matt Nol, Paul myself, because we live in the United States. We are in and of the Western world, which means that most people are going to share, even if they do not ascribe to a specific Abramaic religion, They're going to share that cultural view of what an angel is.

And the various similarities between these preceding words and phrases has led some researchers to speculate that the earliest form of what we would call angel comes from a Sinian linear b script, a Caro. And this leads us to one of the most important crucial things we have to establish here if we haven't, if we haven't clearly said it already, the belief in angels or beings like them is in no way restricted to the Abramaic religions. We just tend to hear about this viewpoint, at least the four of us, Matt Nol, Paul myself, because we live in the United States. We are in and of the Western world, which means that most people are going to share, even if they do not ascribe to a specific Abramaic religion, They're going to share that cultural view of what an angel is.

You know.

You know.

But this this is not a purely Christian, Judaic or Muslim thing. The ancient religion of Zoroastrianism has beings very very similar to angels, and Zoroastrianism is its own fascinating religion that we could do a do a different episode on.

But this this is not a purely Christian, Judaic or Muslim thing. The ancient religion of Zoroastrianism has beings very very similar to angels, and Zoroastrianism is its own fascinating religion that we could do a do a different episode on.

We really should because I want to dive deeper into that.

We really should because I want to dive deeper into that.

It's the source of the name Mazda and cars. Actually that's one. It's it's fascinating for sure. In Abramaic religions, angels are often depicted as these benevolent celestial beings and they're intermediaries between we mud walkers and God. And this makes sense, right because as you said earlier, Nolan, they're primarily depicted as messengers, but they have other roles too. They do other stuff.

It's the source of the name Mazda and cars. Actually that's one. It's it's fascinating for sure. In Abramaic religions, angels are often depicted as these benevolent celestial beings and they're intermediaries between we mud walkers and God. And this makes sense, right because as you said earlier, Nolan, they're primarily depicted as messengers, but they have other roles too. They do other stuff.

Oh yeah, sometimes they'll pop down to protect someone, maybe impregnate someone. I mean that was God, right, that was an angel or a dude.

Oh yeah, sometimes they'll pop down to protect someone, maybe impregnate someone. I mean that was God, right, that was an angel or a dude.

They also will smite people.

They also will smite people.

Oh yeah, definitely. The archangels will come down and take you out if you're doing the wrong thing. But see, it's so it's so interesting with some of the tales and philosophies behind intervention between heaven and Earth and all of these things. Ah, I love these topics so much. But yeah, so they'll protect you, they'll smite you, they might pregnant you, but they're what that's about it. They'll do little tasks sometimes.

Oh yeah, definitely. The archangels will come down and take you out if you're doing the wrong thing. But see, it's so it's so interesting with some of the tales and philosophies behind intervention between heaven and Earth and all of these things. Ah, I love these topics so much. But yeah, so they'll protect you, they'll smite you, they might pregnant you, but they're what that's about it. They'll do little tasks sometimes.

Right task is signed by God, so that could be anything from conveying a message to perhaps delivering someone from peril. Right, They pray to God and God sends someone. It's interesting because in some of the earlier appearances in the Old Testament, for instance, God is a hands on manager. God shows up and specifically talks to people. God will, God will directly intervene. And as the story continues, God seems to be increasingly communicating through intermediaries and the Christian faith. It's through Jesus Christ for instance, right.

Right task is signed by God, so that could be anything from conveying a message to perhaps delivering someone from peril. Right, They pray to God and God sends someone. It's interesting because in some of the earlier appearances in the Old Testament, for instance, God is a hands on manager. God shows up and specifically talks to people. God will, God will directly intervene. And as the story continues, God seems to be increasingly communicating through intermediaries and the Christian faith. It's through Jesus Christ for instance, right.

And the yeah, the priest of its Catholic.

And the yeah, the priest of its Catholic.

Mm hmm, yeah, yes, spot on. And so what we see is that the concept of what an angel is and what an angel evolved along with the commonly agreed upon understanding of the nature of God. And within these Abramaic religions, angels are organized into hierarchies. This happens in other religions too, but the specifics of the hierarchy may differ across various belief systems. And that leads us to angels today. Right, So fast forward thousands of years of history. We did a very quick and dirty summary of it.

Mm hmm, yeah, yes, spot on. And so what we see is that the concept of what an angel is and what an angel evolved along with the commonly agreed upon understanding of the nature of God. And within these Abramaic religions, angels are organized into hierarchies. This happens in other religions too, but the specifics of the hierarchy may differ across various belief systems. And that leads us to angels today. Right, So fast forward thousands of years of history. We did a very quick and dirty summary of it.

Yeah, the angels got in the outfield. The angels when in the airwaves.

Yeah, the angels got in the outfield. The angels when in the airwaves.

We said, yeah, that was you know, Tom Delong's Angels.

We said, yeah, that was you know, Tom Delong's Angels.

Yea, the angels definitely did other things.

Yea, the angels definitely did other things.

They show up in the Twilight Zone. There's a lovely, inept guardian angel attempting to earn its wings.

They show up in the Twilight Zone. There's a lovely, inept guardian angel attempting to earn its wings.

Aw. That's a really sweet episode. That's one of the not depressing Twilight Zones.

Aw. That's a really sweet episode. That's one of the not depressing Twilight Zones.

And that's one of the I think that's one of the only recurrent characters in the Twilight Zone universe other than you know, my boy Rod Serling.

And that's one of the I think that's one of the only recurrent characters in the Twilight Zone universe other than you know, my boy Rod Serling.

You know what I think of when I think of angels as far as a depiction is the depiction of angels in Dogma by Kevin Smith, where they had no genitals.

You know what I think of when I think of angels as far as a depiction is the depiction of angels in Dogma by Kevin Smith, where they had no genitals.

Yeah, angels have been depicted as androgynous beings in time, which is strange because it doesn't really jibe with some of the ancient angel stories, which we'll get to right. For the true believers, angels in the modern day largely function as they did in the ancient past. More directly, they're bringing messages from a deity and accomplishing earthly task for that power, perhaps specifically focusing on one person. The belief in a guardian angel that looks after you as an individual and your individual soul is still very much in play in the world today, and this leads us to another question, which is a question we do not mean in an offensive way at all. Your personal beliefs are your own. It's a question that the world has still grappled with, which is this? Where is the proof? We have compelling evidence that more than half, well more than half of people in the United States claim to believe in some sort of thing like this, But at this point there has been no confirmed discovery of any physical leaving that would inarguably indicate the presence of something matching the various descriptions of an angel. There have been many alleged relics right. There are not only depictions in art, but also feathers or ectoplasm that purportedly manifested during a divine sighting, interaction and situation. For lack of a better phrase, and the overwhelming mass of what people interpret as proof of angels up to this point has unfortunately been based on anecdotes, personal belief and faith. Again, this is not to deride anybody who believes in these entities, nor is it meant to dismiss your personal views. It's it's best to call it unfortunate simply because without physical, verifiable evidence, most people who do not believe in these sorts of creatures will never see a reason to change their minds. Otherwise they'll say, oh, you have a story right where let's say you had a near death experience and you spoke with something that you perceive to be an angel that told you you still had work to do, and then you woke up in the hospital right miraculously recovering. You have been dead for anywhere from two to thirteen minutes or something like that, your heart wasn't beating. That's a very common story. As a matter of fact, I would be surprised if some of us listening today have not had a near death experience or know someone who has. However, that story is not going to convince someone who says, you know, maybe they say I'm an atheist, or maybe they say I'm a spiritual person, but I don't believe in this kind of stuff. I think it's tradition. I think it's more folklore than fact, unless there were some sort of physical evidence. Because you see, there may be one more piece of proof, something that true believers feel is all too often ignored. What if, in a way, the things people call angels have left a trace on the waking world. And what if it wasn't you know, bones hollowed out somewhere between bird bones and human bones. What if it wasn't a massive feathers secreted away in some reliquary, right, what if it wasn't ectoplasm in a hundreds year old vial.

Yeah, angels have been depicted as androgynous beings in time, which is strange because it doesn't really jibe with some of the ancient angel stories, which we'll get to right. For the true believers, angels in the modern day largely function as they did in the ancient past. More directly, they're bringing messages from a deity and accomplishing earthly task for that power, perhaps specifically focusing on one person. The belief in a guardian angel that looks after you as an individual and your individual soul is still very much in play in the world today, and this leads us to another question, which is a question we do not mean in an offensive way at all. Your personal beliefs are your own. It's a question that the world has still grappled with, which is this? Where is the proof? We have compelling evidence that more than half, well more than half of people in the United States claim to believe in some sort of thing like this, But at this point there has been no confirmed discovery of any physical leaving that would inarguably indicate the presence of something matching the various descriptions of an angel. There have been many alleged relics right. There are not only depictions in art, but also feathers or ectoplasm that purportedly manifested during a divine sighting, interaction and situation. For lack of a better phrase, and the overwhelming mass of what people interpret as proof of angels up to this point has unfortunately been based on anecdotes, personal belief and faith. Again, this is not to deride anybody who believes in these entities, nor is it meant to dismiss your personal views. It's it's best to call it unfortunate simply because without physical, verifiable evidence, most people who do not believe in these sorts of creatures will never see a reason to change their minds. Otherwise they'll say, oh, you have a story right where let's say you had a near death experience and you spoke with something that you perceive to be an angel that told you you still had work to do, and then you woke up in the hospital right miraculously recovering. You have been dead for anywhere from two to thirteen minutes or something like that, your heart wasn't beating. That's a very common story. As a matter of fact, I would be surprised if some of us listening today have not had a near death experience or know someone who has. However, that story is not going to convince someone who says, you know, maybe they say I'm an atheist, or maybe they say I'm a spiritual person, but I don't believe in this kind of stuff. I think it's tradition. I think it's more folklore than fact, unless there were some sort of physical evidence. Because you see, there may be one more piece of proof, something that true believers feel is all too often ignored. What if, in a way, the things people call angels have left a trace on the waking world. And what if it wasn't you know, bones hollowed out somewhere between bird bones and human bones. What if it wasn't a massive feathers secreted away in some reliquary, right, what if it wasn't ectoplasm in a hundreds year old vial.

What if it was something a little more sophisticated, like a language.

What if it was something a little more sophisticated, like a language.

Oh, okay, I'm in, you're in, let's learn about it. Back, let's learn about it after a quick break from ah on this, because we're gonna hear from response.

Oh, okay, I'm in, you're in, let's learn about it. Back, let's learn about it after a quick break from ah on this, because we're gonna hear from response.

And we're back. It appears that we have not been smited yet. So here's where it gets crazy. Language a language of angels. The concept of angelic script sounds pretty bizarre at first, blush right, But for centuries people have treated this concept with solemnity and seriousness. It is called Enochian script after the Biblical character Enoch. And it all originates, I mean, at least on this earthly plane with a guy named John d. D Ee. He'll be familiar to some of us and to others might just be a vague name. So who is this guy?

And we're back. It appears that we have not been smited yet. So here's where it gets crazy. Language a language of angels. The concept of angelic script sounds pretty bizarre at first, blush right, But for centuries people have treated this concept with solemnity and seriousness. It is called Enochian script after the Biblical character Enoch. And it all originates, I mean, at least on this earthly plane with a guy named John d. D Ee. He'll be familiar to some of us and to others might just be a vague name. So who is this guy?

And he was real familiar to some from our alchemy episode.

And he was real familiar to some from our alchemy episode.

Yes, that's correct, so mister John d he is welcomed into this world way back in fifteen twenty seven in London. He was an English mathematician and a natural philosopher, which at the time is I guess as close as you could get to being a scientist or what would become scientists and the predecessor. Really he was also a student of the occult, as we mentioned, as you might imagine knowing that he's involved in alchemy at some point in his life. But this dude was, I don't know how to put it.

Yes, that's correct, so mister John d he is welcomed into this world way back in fifteen twenty seven in London. He was an English mathematician and a natural philosopher, which at the time is I guess as close as you could get to being a scientist or what would become scientists and the predecessor. Really he was also a student of the occult, as we mentioned, as you might imagine knowing that he's involved in alchemy at some point in his life. But this dude was, I don't know how to put it.

He was crazy educated, yes, oh man, at a time when very few people went to school and a literacy was rampant because you know, honestly, many people would live their lives from cradle to grave without really needing to know how to read. He entered Saint John's College, Cambridge in fifteen forty two. He got a bachelor's degree there and then a master's degree. He became a fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge when it was founded in fifteen forty six. This guy's old school and influential. Then he traveled to Europe or as they would say, British pilance to the continent and in fifteen forty seven, he made a short visit. Then he stayed from forty eight to fifteen fifty one studying under mathematician cartographers, people like Pedro Nunez, Gema Frisius, Abraham Ortelius, and Mercader of the Mercader projection.

He was crazy educated, yes, oh man, at a time when very few people went to school and a literacy was rampant because you know, honestly, many people would live their lives from cradle to grave without really needing to know how to read. He entered Saint John's College, Cambridge in fifteen forty two. He got a bachelor's degree there and then a master's degree. He became a fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge when it was founded in fifteen forty six. This guy's old school and influential. Then he traveled to Europe or as they would say, British pilance to the continent and in fifteen forty seven, he made a short visit. Then he stayed from forty eight to fifteen fifty one studying under mathematician cartographers, people like Pedro Nunez, Gema Frisius, Abraham Ortelius, and Mercader of the Mercader projection.

Oh yeah, that's that one.

Oh yeah, that's that one.

And he also did self directed study in Paris a few other places that have been lost to history. He started turning down opportunities. The University of Paris offered him a professorship in mathematics in fifteen fifty one, and then University of Oxford offered him essentially the same thing in fifteen fifty four, but he said, no, no, no, no, no. I don't want to be an academic locked in some ivory tower. I have higher aims. I have political aims.

And he also did self directed study in Paris a few other places that have been lost to history. He started turning down opportunities. The University of Paris offered him a professorship in mathematics in fifteen fifty one, and then University of Oxford offered him essentially the same thing in fifteen fifty four, but he said, no, no, no, no, no. I don't want to be an academic locked in some ivory tower. I have higher aims. I have political aims.

Yeah, I want to be a part of not royalty necessarily, but I want to be a part of the PA that actually make the decisions.

Yeah, I want to be a part of not royalty necessarily, but I want to be a part of the PA that actually make the decisions.

Well, I'm gonna parlay this big noggin of mine to some power.

Well, I'm gonna parlay this big noggin of mine to some power.

I could see him as both a protagonist and an antagonist in some movie where he's the extremely intelligent guy on the side, like the ja'far.

I could see him as both a protagonist and an antagonist in some movie where he's the extremely intelligent guy on the side, like the ja'far.

Sort of the Jap figure or a resputant type figure.

Sort of the Jap figure or a resputant type figure.

But yeah, but he seems to be like at least well intentioned to our knowledge.

But yeah, but he seems to be like at least well intentioned to our knowledge.

And he was a huge icon fairly early on in the pop culture at the time. The character of Prospero and the Tempest is based on him. It's like, quote unquote widely thought to be the case. It's true, it's based on him. One guy's opinion. That's just my opinion. But the evidence is there, so yeah. So he decides that he's going to join the court, He's going to work in the service of the English crown. This plan is successful. He returns to England and he becomes a member of the court because he offers to teach mathematics to courtiers and to navigators, and eventually he becomes a consultant and astrologer to Queen Mary one. And this is at this level of political power. This is similar to being both on the cabinet of the president and the astrologer, kind of like how Ronald Reagan had an astrologer. That's true, you can.

And he was a huge icon fairly early on in the pop culture at the time. The character of Prospero and the Tempest is based on him. It's like, quote unquote widely thought to be the case. It's true, it's based on him. One guy's opinion. That's just my opinion. But the evidence is there, so yeah. So he decides that he's going to join the court, He's going to work in the service of the English crown. This plan is successful. He returns to England and he becomes a member of the court because he offers to teach mathematics to courtiers and to navigators, and eventually he becomes a consultant and astrologer to Queen Mary one. And this is at this level of political power. This is similar to being both on the cabinet of the president and the astrologer, kind of like how Ronald Reagan had an astrologer. That's true, you can.

Look it up.

Look it up.

That's that's cool, it's true.

That's that's cool, it's true.

This is a dream job, right, this is what he wanted. It landed him in jail in fifteen fifty five, he was charged with being a conjurer.

This is a dream job, right, this is what he wanted. It landed him in jail in fifteen fifty five, he was charged with being a conjurer.

As yeah, it happens.

As yeah, it happens.

It let him out a little later, but it is on the books, so this is the first time he gets a criminal record.

It let him out a little later, but it is on the books, so this is the first time he gets a criminal record.

I wonder what he conjured to get that sentence, or was accused of conjuring. I didn't I didn't see that anywhere. Maybe it was just a tiny little imp that he was going to have assist him in his work. Wait, what what conyea conjuring a small monkey? You know whatever? Maybe it was just a small black cat.

I wonder what he conjured to get that sentence, or was accused of conjuring. I didn't I didn't see that anywhere. Maybe it was just a tiny little imp that he was going to have assist him in his work. Wait, what what conyea conjuring a small monkey? You know whatever? Maybe it was just a small black cat.

Does aculous like inherently have a hunch, doesn't It doesn't a homoculous have a hunch, doesn't have to It doesn't have to have What is it? What is it? What is a homunculus?

Does aculous like inherently have a hunch, doesn't It doesn't a homoculous have a hunch, doesn't have to It doesn't have to have What is it? What is it? What is a homunculus?

Then it is a it is almost like a familiar depending on these stories, but it's it's created life, made by an alchemist, usually with some combination of a bodily fluid like blood, seamen or urine, certain types of incantations, certain types of mud and herbs.

Then it is a it is almost like a familiar depending on these stories, but it's it's created life, made by an alchemist, usually with some combination of a bodily fluid like blood, seamen or urine, certain types of incantations, certain types of mud and herbs.

So it could it be a mud person or like a rock creature of some kind given life.

So it could it be a mud person or like a rock creature of some kind given life.

It's closer to a golm ah.

It's closer to a golm ah.

Guys, I'm not trying to mess with you, but I've always heard that term, and I've always associated it with like an egor or like some sort of grotesque, you know, disfigured sidekick.

Guys, I'm not trying to mess with you, but I've always heard that term, and I've always associated it with like an egor or like some sort of grotesque, you know, disfigured sidekick.

They are usually they are usually supposed to be. I don't know when they're depicted. They're they're typically going to be depicted as deformed in some way or imperfect, because only in this environment, only God can create a truly perfect being. Right, So I have a I have a recipe to build a homunculus, attributed to Paracelsis from his book De Naturnaerum in fifteen thirty seven. If you want to hear it, can we can?

They are usually they are usually supposed to be. I don't know when they're depicted. They're they're typically going to be depicted as deformed in some way or imperfect, because only in this environment, only God can create a truly perfect being. Right, So I have a I have a recipe to build a homunculus, attributed to Paracelsis from his book De Naturnaerum in fifteen thirty seven. If you want to hear it, can we can?

We try it right now. I don't have the materials.

We try it right now. I don't have the materials.

Well, we do, but it's not safe for work.

Well, we do, but it's not safe for work.

That's fair, thank you, lady. Just let's give it out.

That's fair, thank you, lady. Just let's give it out.

Let's just hear it that the sperm of a man be putrefied by itself in a sealed cucurbit for forty days, and the highest degree of putrification in a horse's womb, or at least so long that it comes to life and moves itself and stirs, which is easily observed. After this time, it will look somewhat like a man, but transparent without a body. If after this it be fed wisely with the arcanum of human blood and be nursed for up to forty weeks, and be kept in the even heat of the horse's womb, a living child grows therefrom with all its members, like another child, which is born of a woman, but much smaller.

Let's just hear it that the sperm of a man be putrefied by itself in a sealed cucurbit for forty days, and the highest degree of putrification in a horse's womb, or at least so long that it comes to life and moves itself and stirs, which is easily observed. After this time, it will look somewhat like a man, but transparent without a body. If after this it be fed wisely with the arcanum of human blood and be nursed for up to forty weeks, and be kept in the even heat of the horse's womb, a living child grows therefrom with all its members, like another child, which is born of a woman, but much smaller.

I have questions, I would imagine, So does this involve having sex with a horse. No, Well, but it says the sperm has to putrefy in the horse's womb.

I have questions, I would imagine, So does this involve having sex with a horse. No, Well, but it says the sperm has to putrefy in the horse's womb.

That's right, But it doesn't say anything about the horse being alive.

That's right, But it doesn't say anything about the horse being alive.

Oh, so does this have Does this involve having sex with a dead horse?

Oh, so does this have Does this involve having sex with a dead horse?

I don't think it has to. But that's really you know, this is the wild West of alchemy at this point.

I don't think it has to. But that's really you know, this is the wild West of alchemy at this point.

Man.

Man.

Uh, that's really If that's how you want to attend to your homoculous then just don't tell me about it.

Uh, that's really If that's how you want to attend to your homoculous then just don't tell me about it.

I also heard I also heard an alternative. The horse was just an option. Right? You said you could also do it and age it well to hear putrefy, I'm hearing like ferment. Right? Is that that was how you would maybe interpret that word aging the sperm? You could do it in some kind of stone vessel.

I also heard I also heard an alternative. The horse was just an option. Right? You said you could also do it and age it well to hear putrefy, I'm hearing like ferment. Right? Is that that was how you would maybe interpret that word aging the sperm? You could do it in some kind of stone vessel.

I feel like for for this guy ind the Toro rerom the the.

I feel like for for this guy ind the Toro rerom the the.

The horse, his womb is tantamount.

The horse, his womb is tantamount.

Yeah. Well, there was a YouTube series of Homunculi where this one dude was attempting to make homunculous or homunculi, and I'm pretty sure it must have been fake because of the nasty puppetry that I believe he was doing was just disgusting to look at, and the processes that he was describing and all this stuff. It was back in the day and I couldn't find it just now trying to look it up. But does anyone else recall seeing that and searching on YouTube perhaps of a guy trying to make homunculi.

Yeah. Well, there was a YouTube series of Homunculi where this one dude was attempting to make homunculous or homunculi, and I'm pretty sure it must have been fake because of the nasty puppetry that I believe he was doing was just disgusting to look at, and the processes that he was describing and all this stuff. It was back in the day and I couldn't find it just now trying to look it up. But does anyone else recall seeing that and searching on YouTube perhaps of a guy trying to make homunculi.

I've seen some stuff like it, and it was I was inclined to believe it was a bit or performance art, okay, but you know, I don't know, man. Sometimes it can be tough to tell when people are being sincere on the internet and when they're having a go, when they're having a laugh.

I've seen some stuff like it, and it was I was inclined to believe it was a bit or performance art, okay, but you know, I don't know, man. Sometimes it can be tough to tell when people are being sincere on the internet and when they're having a go, when they're having a laugh.

It was oh no, I found it. It was a Russian YouTuber. I can't find the original one. It's a bunch of re uploads. He's a Russian gentleman.

It was oh no, I found it. It was a Russian YouTuber. I can't find the original one. It's a bunch of re uploads. He's a Russian gentleman.

Well, sir, if you are listening, and we hope you are doing well, and we look forward to hearing how your experiments have worked out.

Well, sir, if you are listening, and we hope you are doing well, and we look forward to hearing how your experiments have worked out.

And just a little plug, our buddies Joe and Robert over the stuff to blow your mind have a whole episode on how to make a homunculus. Oh no, and other horrors.

And just a little plug, our buddies Joe and Robert over the stuff to blow your mind have a whole episode on how to make a homunculus. Oh no, and other horrors.

Oh no, oh horrors.

Oh no, oh horrors.

I feel like that's a that's a little bit EDATORI yeah.

I feel like that's a that's a little bit EDATORI yeah.

But sweet, howbout this John de Guy.

But sweet, howbout this John de Guy.

Yes, so he also had this interest in the cult. Clearly he's an astrologer. This is the time when natural philosophy represents both a mixture of what we would recognize as science today and what we would recognize as magic or the belief and such. He published something called the monas Hieroglyphica, the Hieroglyphic Monad in fifteen sixty four, and he made it through a secession of power. When Elizabeth the First descended to the throne in fifteen fifty eight, he became one of her scientific and medical advisors. And then he was bawling so hard that sometime during the mid fifteen sixties he built his own laboratory in Mortlake, which was an area near London. He amassed the largest private library in the country. He had over four thousand books and manuscripts. This is in the fifteen sixties. You know how long it took to make a book in the fifteen hundreds.

Yes, so he also had this interest in the cult. Clearly he's an astrologer. This is the time when natural philosophy represents both a mixture of what we would recognize as science today and what we would recognize as magic or the belief and such. He published something called the monas Hieroglyphica, the Hieroglyphic Monad in fifteen sixty four, and he made it through a secession of power. When Elizabeth the First descended to the throne in fifteen fifty eight, he became one of her scientific and medical advisors. And then he was bawling so hard that sometime during the mid fifteen sixties he built his own laboratory in Mortlake, which was an area near London. He amassed the largest private library in the country. He had over four thousand books and manuscripts. This is in the fifteen sixties. You know how long it took to make a book in the fifteen hundreds.

And just to get that many books from all across the world.

And just to get that many books from all across the world.

Probably, and he continually go's look at his scientific pursuit. So he worked extensively with cartographers, navigators, people that he considered intellectual peers, or even people that he thought were just asking interesting questions. Because he was a one man library, he would loan out these books. He would have people over to read his books and his works. He published widely across various disciplines, stuff like the Banger Hit General and rare Memorials pertaining to the Perfect Art of Navigation in fifteen seventy seven, and then he published stuff like an Aphoristic Introduction his views on natural philosophy and Astrology in fifteen fifty eight.

Probably, and he continually go's look at his scientific pursuit. So he worked extensively with cartographers, navigators, people that he considered intellectual peers, or even people that he thought were just asking interesting questions. Because he was a one man library, he would loan out these books. He would have people over to read his books and his works. He published widely across various disciplines, stuff like the Banger Hit General and rare Memorials pertaining to the Perfect Art of Navigation in fifteen seventy seven, and then he published stuff like an Aphoristic Introduction his views on natural philosophy and Astrology in fifteen fifty eight.

And this is pretty cool. He actually edited the first version of Euclid's Elements into English, which was extremely helpful. Thank you for doing that to all people that came after you, John d. That was in fifteen seventy and he also had this this I mean, we kind of talked about it already, but he was so into the occult. And I think it's because it's that thing that we discuss on this show all the time, that line right between magic and science, and he's already kind of writing that line a little bit throughout his spiritual pursuits as well as the scientific pursuits. And he just thought the occult was the coolest thing. And it grew and grew and grew his interest in this and that thing that we talked about, the hieroglyphic monad that we just mentioned up top, because in that he proposed this single mathematical symbol, a magical symbol that was the key to unlocking basically everything. It was like the one solution to the unity of all things in nature. Yeah, as above so below.

And this is pretty cool. He actually edited the first version of Euclid's Elements into English, which was extremely helpful. Thank you for doing that to all people that came after you, John d. That was in fifteen seventy and he also had this this I mean, we kind of talked about it already, but he was so into the occult. And I think it's because it's that thing that we discuss on this show all the time, that line right between magic and science, and he's already kind of writing that line a little bit throughout his spiritual pursuits as well as the scientific pursuits. And he just thought the occult was the coolest thing. And it grew and grew and grew his interest in this and that thing that we talked about, the hieroglyphic monad that we just mentioned up top, because in that he proposed this single mathematical symbol, a magical symbol that was the key to unlocking basically everything. It was like the one solution to the unity of all things in nature. Yeah, as above so below.

Yeah, it's true. And it's strange because his interest in the occult seems to grow in step with his frustration at scientific pursuit. He felt that there was a veil between him and the true nature of reality.

Yeah, it's true. And it's strange because his interest in the occult seems to grow in step with his frustration at scientific pursuit. He felt that there was a veil between him and the true nature of reality.

And it's so interesting to me how in these days that whole pursuit of scientific knowledge was very much intertwined in general, much more so than today when the world seems so separate. Man of science, man of God and all that, and a lot of the things that he that you know, we look at as being mystical sort of or a little bit more or a cult kind of got broken off. The idea of the monad and all that into philosophy. So that's it's almost like create birth the whole nother pursuit kind of. If you think, I don't know, it's interesting.

And it's so interesting to me how in these days that whole pursuit of scientific knowledge was very much intertwined in general, much more so than today when the world seems so separate. Man of science, man of God and all that, and a lot of the things that he that you know, we look at as being mystical sort of or a little bit more or a cult kind of got broken off. The idea of the monad and all that into philosophy. So that's it's almost like create birth the whole nother pursuit kind of. If you think, I don't know, it's interesting.

Yeah, yeah, the same way that alchemy led to chemistry. Right, this is so far. Let's call him the daytime John D. Right, all right, brilliant. He's got an eccentric interest in the occult. But how far did it go? What does he have to do with angels? Let's get to them after a word from our sponsor. So here we have John D. He's in the halls of power. He is considered a world class authority on all manner of scientific pursuits and disciplines and exercises in philosophy. He's also an unhappy dude. He's getting increasingly frustrated because he wants to build a comprehensive understanding of the natural world. And so in let's say, maybe desperation or just In the next step of his continuing quest, he began seeking supernatural or divine assistance. He attempted to speak with angels in the fifteen hundreds. By the way, you ran a severely high risk of death or dismemberment by saying that you didn't believe in angels. So anyone who doesn't count yourself lucky today. Right in fifteen eighty one, specifically, he began performing a long series of magical research projects. Earlier that year, when he was around fifty four, he had written in his journal that God had sent quote good angels to communicate directly with human beings, and so he had set himself up to make contact with these angels. But he had a problem. You see, he was not a medium. He had attempted to scry and found that he had no ability to see the other side or interact with it. Scrine is the act of a meditative or divinatory act, wherein you might stare into a crystal ball, for instance, or in some cultures an obsidian mirror or a container of water.

Yeah, yeah, the same way that alchemy led to chemistry. Right, this is so far. Let's call him the daytime John D. Right, all right, brilliant. He's got an eccentric interest in the occult. But how far did it go? What does he have to do with angels? Let's get to them after a word from our sponsor. So here we have John D. He's in the halls of power. He is considered a world class authority on all manner of scientific pursuits and disciplines and exercises in philosophy. He's also an unhappy dude. He's getting increasingly frustrated because he wants to build a comprehensive understanding of the natural world. And so in let's say, maybe desperation or just In the next step of his continuing quest, he began seeking supernatural or divine assistance. He attempted to speak with angels in the fifteen hundreds. By the way, you ran a severely high risk of death or dismemberment by saying that you didn't believe in angels. So anyone who doesn't count yourself lucky today. Right in fifteen eighty one, specifically, he began performing a long series of magical research projects. Earlier that year, when he was around fifty four, he had written in his journal that God had sent quote good angels to communicate directly with human beings, and so he had set himself up to make contact with these angels. But he had a problem. You see, he was not a medium. He had attempted to scry and found that he had no ability to see the other side or interact with it. Scrine is the act of a meditative or divinatory act, wherein you might stare into a crystal ball, for instance, or in some cultures an obsidian mirror or a container of water.

Yeah, I always thought it was when you look at the top card of your library and you decide to put it either on the back, on the top or on the bottom of your library. That's that's just what I thought.

Yeah, I always thought it was when you look at the top card of your library and you decide to put it either on the back, on the top or on the bottom of your library. That's that's just what I thought.

That's a cool move in magic. Are you still playing magic?

That's a cool move in magic. Are you still playing magic?

Huh?

Huh?

What now I'm talking about scrying.

What now I'm talking about scrying.

Bro Okay, real magic.

Bro Okay, real magic.

Okay, that's right, Matt does scry with a deck of cards.

Okay, that's right, Matt does scry with a deck of cards.

Help let me look at this. What is that terror? Okay?

Help let me look at this. What is that terror? Okay?

Oh?

Oh?

I thought I was gonna say seven of clubs, but that is not your card. So those are the kind of results that John d was having. He just he couldn't. He couldn't divine this stuff. And he was honest enough with himself. This is very important. He was honest stuff with himself to say, well, I'm not doing it. I'm not going to delude myself. I am certain that this talent exists, but I am likewise certain that either I do not have it or I don't have a strong enough capacity to learn it. So eventually he did find a medium, or at least he thought he did. He held numerous seances in England and other European countries across the continent in the company of his hired medium, a fellow named Edward Kelly, who will get to in a moment. He is very important in this story. In his attempt to contact angels, Dee was seeking that universal language of creation. He thought it would bring about a pre apocalyptic unity of humankind. He thought that everyone, despite their differences, knowing this language would discover some sort of tangible and supernatural and philosophical truth about the nature of the universe and Earth and humanity's placed in it, and that this would promote peace, this would stop pointless wars. Someone like this somewhat utopian, right, I can.

I thought I was gonna say seven of clubs, but that is not your card. So those are the kind of results that John d was having. He just he couldn't. He couldn't divine this stuff. And he was honest enough with himself. This is very important. He was honest stuff with himself to say, well, I'm not doing it. I'm not going to delude myself. I am certain that this talent exists, but I am likewise certain that either I do not have it or I don't have a strong enough capacity to learn it. So eventually he did find a medium, or at least he thought he did. He held numerous seances in England and other European countries across the continent in the company of his hired medium, a fellow named Edward Kelly, who will get to in a moment. He is very important in this story. In his attempt to contact angels, Dee was seeking that universal language of creation. He thought it would bring about a pre apocalyptic unity of humankind. He thought that everyone, despite their differences, knowing this language would discover some sort of tangible and supernatural and philosophical truth about the nature of the universe and Earth and humanity's placed in it, and that this would promote peace, this would stop pointless wars. Someone like this somewhat utopian, right, I can.

Totally see where he could get that belief. It sounds very similar to some of the stuff we've been discussing earlier with the whole Watchman Aussie Mandias, thing like if we all had that one connection for sure, for certain that makes the world bigger than us, then maybe we would all get along.

Totally see where he could get that belief. It sounds very similar to some of the stuff we've been discussing earlier with the whole Watchman Aussie Mandias, thing like if we all had that one connection for sure, for certain that makes the world bigger than us, then maybe we would all get along.

Yeah, we have a lot of one stop shoppery in the story of human aims.

Yeah, we have a lot of one stop shoppery in the story of human aims.

Right.

Right.

The guy who who created Esperanto also thought that it would help end war. Yeah, because everyone would speak the same language. Yeah, Esperanto is a great language, by the way, very few people speak it, but it's a great language.

The guy who who created Esperanto also thought that it would help end war. Yeah, because everyone would speak the same language. Yeah, Esperanto is a great language, by the way, very few people speak it, but it's a great language.

I just remember like recent searching it back in the day for the old website.

I just remember like recent searching it back in the day for the old website.

That's all and learning about William Shatner's Ye Wonderful film.

That's all and learning about William Shatner's Ye Wonderful film.

Well, well let's see. So John D he totally thinks this is gonna happen, right, and he goes to some pretty extensive lengths to try and make it happen, to try and prove that it's true.

Well, well let's see. So John D he totally thinks this is gonna happen, right, and he goes to some pretty extensive lengths to try and make it happen, to try and prove that it's true.

Yeah, they have. He and Edward Kelly have hundreds and hundreds of sessions from fifteen eighty two until fifteen eighty seven. And during these sessions they come to believe that they are communicating regularly with actual angels, and they each have their role to play. They're like a two man band. So D will be the orator and the supplicant, so he will be asking these questions. He will ask them often by directing prayers to God and God's archangles, and then he would invoke them to manifest themselves in his scrying stone. For him, it was a black obsidian mirror.

Yeah, they have. He and Edward Kelly have hundreds and hundreds of sessions from fifteen eighty two until fifteen eighty seven. And during these sessions they come to believe that they are communicating regularly with actual angels, and they each have their role to play. They're like a two man band. So D will be the orator and the supplicant, so he will be asking these questions. He will ask them often by directing prayers to God and God's archangles, and then he would invoke them to manifest themselves in his scrying stone. For him, it was a black obsidian mirror.

Oh that's cool.

Oh that's cool.

I don't know if you guys have seen those in person, but they look really cool.

I don't know if you guys have seen those in person, but they look really cool.

It kind of gives you like a sort of a blurred kind of reflection, right, black mirror esque.

It kind of gives you like a sort of a blurred kind of reflection, right, black mirror esque.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, And Kelly would act as the scrier. So D is invoking these powers and asking them things, and Kelly is watching for their reactions. He would see visions projected in this mirror and he would describe them to D and then D would write them down. So cool and everything picks up steam. Around the year fifteen eighty two or fifteen eighty three.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, And Kelly would act as the scrier. So D is invoking these powers and asking them things, and Kelly is watching for their reactions. He would see visions projected in this mirror and he would describe them to D and then D would write them down. So cool and everything picks up steam. Around the year fifteen eighty two or fifteen eighty three.

Yeah, that's when John d and Edward Kelly claimed to have received communication directly from the angels, who supposedly allegedly provided them with the foundations of this language which can be used to communicate with the other side. This angelic language had its own alphabet in tax grammar, all of which they wrote down in their journals, and they dubbed this new language Enochian, which of course sprang from D's idea that the biblical patriarch Enoch, sort of a Methuselah esque figure in the Bible, was the last human to know this language.

Yeah, that's when John d and Edward Kelly claimed to have received communication directly from the angels, who supposedly allegedly provided them with the foundations of this language which can be used to communicate with the other side. This angelic language had its own alphabet in tax grammar, all of which they wrote down in their journals, and they dubbed this new language Enochian, which of course sprang from D's idea that the biblical patriarch Enoch, sort of a Methuselah esque figure in the Bible, was the last human to know this language.

And D in common conversation, preferred to call this language angelical or the celestial speech. He also called it the first language of God Christ, and particularly he was fond of calling it Adamical like Adam Ikel, because he claimed it was the language spoken by Adam, the biblical Adam in the garden of Eden during the naming of all of God's creatures, walked the earth, swim to sea, fly.

And D in common conversation, preferred to call this language angelical or the celestial speech. He also called it the first language of God Christ, and particularly he was fond of calling it Adamical like Adam Ikel, because he claimed it was the language spoken by Adam, the biblical Adam in the garden of Eden during the naming of all of God's creatures, walked the earth, swim to sea, fly.

In the air. That's an interesting concept that Adam somehow spoke the same language as all of the angels.

In the air. That's an interesting concept that Adam somehow spoke the same language as all of the angels.

Yeah, is he gonna speak Esperanto?

Yeah, is he gonna speak Esperanto?

Well, you know, it makes so much sense though, if you're coming from heaven, were all the angels already exist, and you're going to bestow life upon this creature in this new world, in this new place, you teach them the language, you know that?

Well, you know, it makes so much sense though, if you're coming from heaven, were all the angels already exist, and you're going to bestow life upon this creature in this new world, in this new place, you teach them the language, you know that?

Wow?

Wow?

And it's interesting because for d at this time, this is not a crazy assumption. This is barely an assumption. He had not conceived of a world in which people could exist without language, you know what I mean. Like, at this time in the fifteen hundreds, there's not going to be anyone arguing for the slow evolution of primates right from an arboreal species to two legged people walking and working out or accelerating their differences through a series of a series of organized noises.

And it's interesting because for d at this time, this is not a crazy assumption. This is barely an assumption. He had not conceived of a world in which people could exist without language, you know what I mean. Like, at this time in the fifteen hundreds, there's not going to be anyone arguing for the slow evolution of primates right from an arboreal species to two legged people walking and working out or accelerating their differences through a series of a series of organized noises.

What what you're talking about?

What what you're talking about?

So, I mean, that's what I say is people were created according to the story that he had heard, and that people would literally be killed for disagreeing with right at this time, so of course there had to be some sort of speech. How else would one communicate.

So, I mean, that's what I say is people were created according to the story that he had heard, and that people would literally be killed for disagreeing with right at this time, so of course there had to be some sort of speech. How else would one communicate.

Well, it could be in the form of dance, like in the Netflix show thea Oh yeah you guys reader that that was the Angel language only I think there was an alphabet. There was some written versions of it in that show, but it was largely it was largely communicated through these amazing dance moves.

Well, it could be in the form of dance, like in the Netflix show thea Oh yeah you guys reader that that was the Angel language only I think there was an alphabet. There was some written versions of it in that show, but it was largely it was largely communicated through these amazing dance moves.

I watched that so long ago, although it wasn't that long. You remember the dancing like, yes, absolutely six, It feels like a lifetime ago.

I watched that so long ago, although it wasn't that long. You remember the dancing like, yes, absolutely six, It feels like a lifetime ago.

I feel like we're due for another season of that. I'm pretty sure it got Greenlab.

I feel like we're due for another season of that. I'm pretty sure it got Greenlab.

Yeah, they just had the one season so far. I think it did get renewed, but I don't know when it's going to come out. It would be nice because maybe they could answer even one of the questions the post in season one.

Yeah, they just had the one season so far. I think it did get renewed, but I don't know when it's going to come out. It would be nice because maybe they could answer even one of the questions the post in season one.

But at least Punisher two is out right now.

But at least Punisher two is out right now.

Yes, not doing very well.

Yes, not doing very well.

I don't care. It's so good.

I don't care. It's so good.

I enjoy it. I feel like I get it.

I enjoy it. I feel like I get it.

You know, it gets me so.

You know, it gets me so.

Punish her aside. These beings with whom d and Kelly were in communication told them that being able to speak this language, being able to speak this ancient, pre human Anachian tongue would unlock the doors to unlimited knowledge, wisdom, and power. So let's get away from those claims. Let's look at what it actually is. You can go online as you are listening to this episode, and you can scroll through different analyzes and interpretations of versions of this alphabet. It is composed of a twenty one letter alphabet. It was written from right to left, unlike English. There are two different versions. The first is in a manuscript that d created called the First Five Books of the Mysteries. The second, which is the more widely accepted version today, comes from a book called Liber Logoth, which is allegedly based on Kelly's original drawings. It's got forty nine great lettered tables or squares that are made up of forty nine by forty nine letters, and it's said to be the first corpus of texts in this purportedly angelic language. But the thing is, Dan Kelly said the angels never translated the text in that book Dang. However, a year later there were some texts that emerged that did come with English translations, and therefore we see this as providing the basis for Anachian vocabulary. The texts have poetic verses. There are forty eight of them. D in his manuscripts calls them the angelic keys, and each key is assigned a specific function within this magical system. Dec was planning to use them to open the forty nine gates of wisdom or understanding, represented by the forty nine magic squares in this pre existing book. Oh my gosh, So that's that's longest. But surprise, it gets complicated.