Pearlena Igbokwe, chairman of Universal Studio Group, and Erin McPherson, chief content officer of Verizon Consumer Group, discuss how their businesses are evolving as the streaming marketplace matures. Igbokwe details her focus on building library assets for the long haul; McPherson explains Verizon's goal to become a friendly-but-not-competitive portal to help Hollywood with content aggregation.
Welcome to Strictly Business, Varieties weekly podcast featuring conversations with industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Variety. Today's guest on Strictly Business are Perlina Ibokwe, Chairman of Universal Studio Group, and Aaron McPherson, Chief Content Officer for Verizon Consumer Group. Both conversations were drawn from the entertainment summit that Variety produced in conjunction with the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas in early January. Ibokwe is one of Hollywood's most prominent television executives, and she's clearly a rising star in the Comcast NBC Universal universe. Ibokwe and I spoke about the exponential growth of series produced under the Universal umbrella. She details how Universal strategy is to sell content far and wide to outside platforms in addition to feating the many hungry mouths within NBC Universal. These days, it's hard for Universal TV to keep count of all the shows it produces. As you'll hear at the start of our conversation, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back after this break with Universal's Carlina Ibokwe, and we're back with a conversation with Universal Television's Perlina ibo Kwe. Obviously, two year was a tough year for the business. In aggregate, it was it was a difficult year. It was difficult year for the business on Wall Street. Difficult year of there's been some reckoning. I think it's at some companies, not as much a Comcast, but we've definitely we've definitely seen some retrenchment, but some some re reevaluation, reevaluation. But when we spoke a few weeks ago in preparation, you were saying something that you said really stuck with me. That you said that that this as an aura of doom and gloom that you just don't see or feel or even or since I wanted to hear about them, or I don't want to perpetuate you know, Um, you know, it's it's a little bit of people, you know, are like, well, we think we're headed towards a recession, and so everyone is immediately acting as if we're there and and and there's all this belt tightening and they're laying off you know, thousands of people, and I and I and I go, well, are we there yet? We're not there yet. This is all on the fears that it's going to happen, and once everyone starts acting that way, it feels like a self fulfilling prophecy, you know. Um, but you know, I've been asked that question. Are people going to stop buying shows? People are not going to stop buying TV shows. They need TV shows. They need things for you know, the streamers need things for you to watch because you're subscribing and you're paying, and so they're going to be making things. And that's why I love being on the studio side, is where you know where the people making things, and if you're making good things and good shows, there will be a marketplace for it. Let me ask you about just again, even in your tenure at Universal, um, just the volume has increased immensely. How have you dealt with that on a structural level? Do you have more people working in development and creative? No? My sense was that you have not added, you know, the commensurate number of people. So so what has what has helped you? Just manage the process? Because ensure sure right under Universal Studio Group we have four studios, right, there's Universal Television, u u c P, Universal Content Productions, are alternative studio UTAHS and we have a studio based in the UK in London UM And while they operate you know, independently creatively, we're all housed under this umbrella group of universal studio group that allow hows us to collaborate and share ideas and and have more leverage in the marketplace as we're negotiating deals and and things like that and even terms of you know, from a production standpoint in terms of volume buying. So we think that that helps us in terms of efficiency. But also you said, it's you know, it's the same number of people, but we just really love what they do and it is important. You know. It's not just it's not just Okay, this is my job, this is what I do. This is these are people who love what they do and but think about it. We make television. I mean, I say to you all the time, I get to make TV. You know, I'm I am a child of immigrants. I'm an immigrant myself. I came here when I was six years old. Watching television is how I learned about the American culture. You know. I was fascinated by everything, and you know, and I think so much of what we watch it inherently teaches people what to aspire to, want to value and what's important. And and so the fact that I get to be someone who's now making shows that can have that kind of impact on other people. It feels like nothing, but you know, a privilege and the most wonderful thing in the world. So you know, we try to have, you know, work with people who also realize that it's fun, and you know, we're in a very privileged position, and you know, try to have the no assholes policy because the work is very hard, and so you know, we don't need that, uh, making it worse. The best producers always always recognized the privilege of I was going to say time slot and date myself, but the privilege of having an hour of somebody's time and being on an error. And and there is I do think there is. Broadcast networks. You know they are you know, despite what you may have heard, they are still they are still turning out. You know, you put the right football game on people, people will come to it. That shows you the pipe still work. But there is still also even with entertainment content, there's a new world of of how people access how people access it, But you do still you still find your pockets of audience, it's just measured in a different way. Has that measurement has been such a subject of debate and and and sort of turmoil in internally. Are you seeing are you seeing better well? Better analytics? Obviously people are there, people are a lot smarter about how you how you measure things across different platforms. But are you seeing more sophisticated data that is helping you? I know, I know that data can never tell you what script to green light? But is there something and I know you feel very strong there might have been a panel earlier, aim panel that was might have been trying to do that, but no data cannot do that, you know. I think at the end of the day, what we do is we try to be in business with the best storytellers, um you know, the best writers and producers, and we get behind their vision. We may, like I said, maybe try to help shape some of it. We may give them some input based upon what we here that certain networks may want. But even then, what a network wants and what ends up being the biggest hit isn't always the doesn't always correlate, but it's it's it's really an art, not a science as to how you develop UM And I was just saying that someone earlier today. You really can't chase something, you can't create it in a lab. Um. You just have to have a holy original idea that people haven't seen before, that's executed at its highest level, and that people connect to. None of that can you predict, right, And that's that's the fun thing about our business. That's the lightning in a bottle. It's a lightning in the bottle. I was looking over. You have just an incredible murderers row of talent. Jordan Peel. You know that that you are doing business with currently, Jordan Peele, Seth McFarlane, Tina Fey, Amy Poehler, a very well known it was a very well known producer by the name of Dick Wolfe. With a lot of folks there, Seth McFarland, Amy Polar, Tina fee. You have people that I'm Jordan Peel as well. I mean people that are a tourist, they're they're not they're comfortable in front of the camera. They have that experience. Is that that is really We're seeing a lot more of that in television now, even the even the folks on Hacks Paul Downs is one of the creators and he plays the terrific agent. Um how is that does that influence? I mean obviously that those folks bring something to from the very get go and understanding of the writing in the structure, but how is that kind of the autour? The rise of the autour has change the way you develop and the kind of shows that you can get, especially like an Amy Poehler is producing scripted comedies unscripted. She's in her Drawing a Blank on the the NBC show that she does with the Crafts with Nick Offerman, that's making it, making it. She's also doing Baking It on Peacock um uh. And she also you know, produced Russian Doll for us and she execut produces Harlem for us on on on Amazon. But that's also Amy. You know, that is Amy Poehler who is a true amazing producer and she loves storytelling. And I think people know Amy from being in front of the camera. But her real gift, I think is that being able to connect with other storytellers and help them bring their vision, you know, um, you know, to light so um. Yeah, I don't know that we've necessarily gone after you know, tours or former performers. You know, I think there are some performers who have a great ability to with story and know what how to connect to audiences and some don't. You know. Um, But I, as I said, I think, you know, for us, it's really about do we believe in the talent, you know that we're working with that person? Um uh. Question for you obviously in the in the world of what I hope does not become a self fulfilling prophecy. But I do kind of have to ask you do you think there's a lot of talk in Hollywood? There are there are some big issues on the table. There are big issues in the content business, and there is there are very important labor contracts coming up for Hollywood in the first half of this year with the Writer's Guild of American Director's guild SAG after. You can't produce a show without people that are in those unions. I definitely do not want to be a doomsayer, but what what would you say is the dynamic right now? Do you have any sense of where the unions are, where the industry is, where we're where we're going to see? Well, this is another one of those like potential self fulfilling prophecies. I mean, there's a lot of people you ask and they're like, oh, there's going to be a strike. So if if that's the attitude, I guess there's gonna be a strike if that's the attitude. But what I would say is, look, the issues on both sides very important, right, Um, But having just come out of where there was a six month work stoppage and there are a lot of people who could not work, who could not make a living, Um, I would really like to not go back to that again. And we couldn't make TV shows, and there were a lot of networks who didn't have product, and so I I think, you know, I think there are a lot of people who would like to just you know, hope that we can sit down at the table and figure out the issues so that people can continue working. And um. And I think that's the thing that people should not forget is that there's a lot of you know, below the line, you know, people who this will affect. Yes, it's some key unions like the Writer's Guild and other unions, but it also means that you know, there's some guy who's pulling cable for a show who won't work right who delivers bagels, delivers bagels or just works in the office. So I think it's for me. When people said, do you think there's going to be a strike, my answer is I absolutely hope not, and I absolutely hope you know, and and we're very supportive of let's figure out, you know, what these end resolve whatever the issues are to everyone's satisfaction. I can't believe that it's been actually fifteen years since the previous one. And I definitely as you talk to people, people that remember and lived through the previous one versus those that are newer to the industry, I hope that they listen to the elders because a strike the last time around, it was not pretty. It was not good for anybody. Yeah, yeah, and I remember, Yeah, I remember that. I guess I'm one of the elders. Um, but uh, yeah, I do hope we can learn from the past. I don't think, I don't know that people inherently just want to strike. I think people want to feel heard and get their issues resolved, and that's what we need to do. I know. Um, let's leave this on an up note. I know that one one area of focus for you, not just because there could be a little issue with those pesky writers, but um that I didn't call them. Sorry. As a writer, I can I can say um but um. But a big goal for you is to is to grow your alternative studio your That is very much one of you know, our big goals. Um. You know, we just launched a show called Uh, That's My Jam, um that Jimmy Fallon produces and aunts on NBC and it's a great show. If you haven't seen it, check it out. But we've also launched you know, UM That's My Jam UK and you know, we sold that format in the UK and multiple territories. And we're also expanding. You know, we were very much a studio that did a lot of we call shiny floor shows, you know, like World of Dance, you know, UM and and or or you know the Wall, and we're going to continue to do that. But we're also expanding into documentaries. You know, we have this great doc called The America's Um that's coming out UH next year. And I was in London, went over to the BBC where we're doing it with the BBC, and I saw some of the footage and it was incredible. Never before seeing footage that they've captured, like like the Natural World, Natural World. It's incredible, um, but also expanding you know into you know, docuseries. You know, I'd love to find like what's the next iteration of these relationship shows that people seem to not get enough of, from nine d Fiance to Love at First Sight, to Love is Blind, to The Bachelor, to you know, to the latest one. I just saw Milf Island, you know, like I you know, people seem to you know, love watching other people grapple with relationships that we can find the next literation sh and of that. I'd love to I'd like to do that searching for couples in crisis, right, couples in crisis leading to love right, Pearlina, thank you so much for your time, thank you for your thoughts, and truly I am just I'm excited to see what comes from your group in this coming year. I know you have a ton of stuff coming, a lot of great talk, you have a lot of great stuff. We just came off of, um, you know, The Best Man, which just broke some records for Peacock one woo, thank you. Um. But we've got you know, second season of Dr death coming and it's another great but unbelievable story. We've got based on a true story. Um that's the title, based on a true story that kayleie Quoco is starting in. We've got Pete Davidson's new show called Bupkiss and it is as outrageous as Pete and Seth mcfauland is doing a TV adaptation of Ted. So just you know a couple of the you know, a new show, great wonderful comedy called Primo that's coming of Free V. And these are all you know on different networks. Um uh, you know around the I was gonna say dial but that just dated me too. Right, don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with a conversation with Verizon's Aaron McPherson Horizons. Aaron McPherson is an executive who has straddled the world of digital media and Hollywood for most of her career. That's certainly the case now in her role as head of Content for Verizon. Here in this interview with Todd Spengler, my great colleague, who is Varieties New York digital editor and to semi regular guest host to this podcast, Aaron explains what Verizon is and isn't doing in Hollywood and why that matters. Listen up to one of the industry's savvat players. I'm just six years at Verizon UM after career in media and entertainment, and UM I was very specifically recruited to drive the content strategy, which changed significantly. You're right, the Verizon had its own app UM some really amazing content, and I think UM early ahead of its time, perhaps in mobile viewership habits, which five G will help. I'll even throw myself on the five G sword that Cynthia wanted to ask about, which is how does five G change things? And I think that it will proliferate the ease of mobile viewing and wireless internet. One of the easiest, most immediate changes I think we'll see is high speed internet available wirelessly, and we're already seeing that right the proliferation of our fixed wireless access business, and our competitors are selling wireless, self installed home home connectivity that can power all of your needs work, play, gaming, entertainment. That's just a very easy example. We like to talk about a r v R and immersive experiences and all the cool stuff that UH, five G will do, and it will But if you really think about the most immediate I think impact for many consumers would be very viable wireless connectivity solutions for your house I speed not just at home, but but anywhere anywhere. And you know, work play, since a lot of people are now working at home, work play, stream video, your kids are streaming upstairs, you're working, you know, your partner is doing something else in the other room, all available wirelessly. That will be one of the I think, you know, early outputs of this enhanced connectivity that we're experiencing across the United States. So do you know, in your opinion, do you think five G is taken longer to take root? And you know, cause this evolution than we we previously thought for sure, it would you know, be fake not to say that it has taken longer. It has, and it is um you know, I think first of all, the excitement around it was palpable, and there was the excitement that we had as an industry globally that was matched by media coverage of it and the reality as it takes a long time to build out a national network of that level, and so we're all getting there and we will get there, and then all of those other immersive, amazing next gen experiences will also be possible with five G. But as I said, the first immediate side would be seamless viewing of high definition content from your phone anywhere, the ability to have interactive experiences right there. So I think sports betting or you know, real time trading. We've already seen those instances where a millisecond matters. Um that that through put, you know that increased through put will you know, and already is having immediate immediate consumer benefits. And then, as I said, the home wireless, we have a fixed wireless access product that is self installed, so you don't have to wait the eight hour window for the cable installer. I don't if you've lived through that, right, will come between eight am and eight pm maybe tomorrow. This is this is sent to you and and even I could install it. It's starting to take share from cable broadband, which is then, yes, that's right, pretty dominant. That's right. So I think that if Cynthia, if we've gotten to my question, that's what I would say. The thing we're calling five G, which is what I'm saying, is enhanced connectivity, wireless connectivity across the United States will have that impact. Yeah. Now, and and so your group specifically has been looking at what are the creative possibilities that open up with a five G platform. Um, you've been looking at this for years. You've got this creators series looking at new forms of storytelling. One of the cool things was The Green Eyed Monster from Viola Davis is an a R musical retelling of Shakespeare's Othello What Yes? Um? And then you've got an a R rom com yes Saying from Paul Fig called Mr Roster Right. Um. I I love that because UM, generally new paradigms, new technologies can be male. I think skew male. Um. Now, granted there's a huge, massive female gaming audience, but sometimes the subject matter can skew mail. And Mr Wright is very definitely produced by Win partnership with Paul FIG's company, UM about building the perfect Man. Not that that's that's male and female. I know that we're in a non binary world, but it's a very cute rom com that would skew to a more female skewing audience. And that's part of why we loved it is we want to serve diverse interests, both sci fi and gaming, traditional gaming and rom coms and Viola's piece, which is a really really creative take on Othello and the effect that jealousy Iago the character that personified the green eyed monster jealousy. Um. We that was a Tribeca Filmfest nominee. So we are dabbling, I would say, in funding content when it demonstrates the capabilities of five G what does it let you do that you can't do? Say on Netflix, you know as a as A, as a wall Garden or whatever. Um well are so our originals are specific to building out new models for for five G. So think of it this way. We're partnered with Snap on a lot of this. Maybe Snap is the distribution window. That's where it would be different. These shows aren't going on Netflix, although they could. They're being experienced through Snap through snap are lenses, and we're experimenting with you know, customers buy something like Iago of Viola Davis original, will they pay for a gamified version of Building The Perfect Man with Mr Wright? Um, we're just early days figuring out what do people want to experience in an immersive or interactive way on their phone? What are they willing to pay for? What's an add on the early obvious ones of sports betting and a R maps and concerts. Those were also working with Live Nation. We're working with the NFL. But these examples you've just named, i'd say, are more creative um tests around what's possible and what's great is we see the same excitement in Hollywood that I remember seeing early days of web video. I'm dating myself, but um, you know Web two point oh building out short form content, getting Tom Hanks and you know, uh, Jack Black excited about short form. That's what it felt like around two thousand six, two thousand seven YouTube just starting. It feels that way really with the with the metaverse web three. Well, so the hypothesis, right is that this will be more engaging because it's more immersive. You give the viewer a chance to participate in building this or writer whatever it is. Exactly. It's not linear storytelling in the way we think of it. And it's not, um, choose your own adventure. Not that I love the attempts that have been made band or Snatch and others around how can we involve the audience in picking their own ending. It's not like that. It is more I describe it more as a game with narrative, which many great games have narrative. So that's where I feel that's where we've seen the creative land to date is in a game. It's safe to say these are proof of concepts, proofs of concept, proofs of concept, and I would not take away from this that we are in the content production arena. We really are embracing our our expertise as a distribution and marketing partner. And that's where the Netflix is and the hbos and the Disneys come in is with plus Play, which is just launched in open beta about a week ago. That's my next question. Thank you. Yeah, taken over and see the clock. The clock is is draining and now the audience is here. Um plus Play is our direct to consumer store that we've launched last week in open beta, and we'll be launching commercially we expect sometime late Q one March time frame, and I'm really excited about it. It's the result of a lot of years of internal work to get the company I think in a good place to really see that we are poised to be a partner of choice for all of these spots coming to market. What is going to be different in the commercial launch versus what is there now we're enhancing So if you go find it now, it lives on for eising dot com. It's not in our app, it's for Verizon customers. To soft launch will be enhancing features and functionality, making things prettier and and taking friction points away a little bit in the buy flow. Um, if you just think about that, a company like Google does that all the time in their sleep. We are embracing that. And you know, as a network company, we don't fail when we put out our network. We have to be fool proof. But we are launching this very obviously and overtly in beta to test it and also get feedback from our customers. And the launch offer, which we've announced publicly is really exciting. We're going to offer a number of s fods to our customers and if they buy one, they get Netflix on us for a year, Netflix Netflix Premium for stream high definition, Netflix on Us for a year. So we are really committed to giving our customers more and showing them that we are a great place for them to discover, manage, and um get great deals on content and services. So how does that word do you eat the cost of Netflix for a year. Well, for marketing, we are underwriting some of that, yes, But then as we go on forward with Netflix, we're going to be doing other exciting things um in the in the space as far as think about where we go with next gen perhaps next gen bundling and other types of offers with all of our partners, we've got great trials. Think of it as our way of providing our customers with more value. Now did I did I hear you say this will be open to or uh plus play will be available to non Verizon customers as well, or this will be at first four Verizon wireless customers, eventually opened up you know, to everyone you know down the road. But we're starting out with our customer base, and we've got a roughly twenty premium subscription services on the just added Stars just announced that will be growing and adding, probably by end of this year, up to about fifty. It's not our intent to aggregate the world's apps though, That's not what we're about doing. It's going to always remain a curated selection, and our hope is also to push the industry forward by creating consumer centric bundles and offers in with with these services. Think about again, none of this is announced yet but think about a bundle where a customer could get, uh, get a video subscription service something to do with health and wellness. Since we offer you know, Peloton and Calm, we might start to work with delivery services, anything that's a monthly subscription. Um. So let me ask this. There's a natural tension here because the those those providers want to maintain a direct relationship with their customers. Here comes Verizon as the disintermediator, right or reaggregate or however you want to put it, and you're taking over part of that direct relationship. How does that tension resolve? I mean there's got to be a win win on both sides of this. Yeah. Absolutely. We conducted extensive research um as part of the launch and strategy of plus Play. And what is notable is every spot, even the biggest ones, need third party distribution. So right now, that ecosystem is healthier with a variety of distribution points, right, And I think any ecosystems healthier with a variety of players. You know, we now have some dominant distribution platforms out there. We we'd add to the mix and hope to just be giving consumers more choice. To your point, um, I think if you're looking at it from the programmer's perspective. They've got their own and operated which they want to keep really healthy. They're keeping all of that revenue presumably, but they have acquisition costs when they go get get subscribers. So we're helping lower acquisition cost and we're really helping reduce churn and life cycle marriage. Whatever that formula is, it should work out exactly that the revenue they're sharing back with us is you know that that equation is a win win and it's a bit different from the Amazon Prime Channels model, right because you're not actually slip streaming it into Thank you for noting that and integrated. I mean, is that a big deal for your partners um? I think it is. It's also for our customers. So what this means is we are about finding the stuff that you want to watch or maybe discovering new stuff. We're about helping you manage those subscriptions and so we have managed tools that will show you what am I even spending every month? Have I even watched that? Should I cancel it? Should I subscribe to something new? And then we're also about providing great deals like a year of Netflix. What we're not doing is controlling your consumption, your streaming experience. So continue watching on Apple, on Amazon, that would be a big difference, and on Roku wherever you want to watch. Were agnostic as to that, and it's a huge differentiator for not just our partners, but for consumers since right now it's a fragmented world. Many households are research indicated are watching on multiple different devices and access points. Thanks for listening, be sure to leave us a review at Apple Podcast. We love to hear from listeners. Please go to Variety dot com and sign up for our free Strictly Business newsletter, and don't forget to tune in next week for another episode of Strictly Business. M