TMIThis week Mysonne and Tamika speak with Dr Michael Pratt, who is a phycologist by trade with a deep study of neurology. During the episode, Dr. Pratt share his thoughts on handling those with mental health issues as well as how to detect it. Moreover, they also discuss the impact and negative reaction some may have to other civilians, but the community can be the blame of it.
What's a family iss your girl to Mika D.
Mallory and it's your boy, my son the general.
And we are your host of street politicians, the place where the streets and politics to me, my son Lennon, y'all say something, America is gone.
You're now.
They used to say that boy gone, and.
That boy gone. He ain't got it all.
It's gone from street to street, from c to sun Shine and sea. It's really a problem.
Yeah, we're gonna talk about America being crazy because a lot going on in America. But today, you know, as I drive my kids in school every morning, like I normally do, I turn on the radio and I hear this conversation between Evany K. Williams to us somebody we both know and respect and love, and DJ Envy, who's also our brother, and I mean and just the breakfast club in general. And I had seen some online chatter about the conversation that her and Ayana Vozac had and she spoke about not being willing to date a bus drive unless he owned the bus company. So you know, I didn't even at first to me, because everybody's personal preference is their preference. You know, if you don't want to date somebody if you feel like you're an educated individual and you you know, you going to college, this and that, and you want to date people within that realm, that should be your prerogative, you know. So I never really understood what everybody was mad at. So then I heard that she doubled down on the conversation. I didn't hear none of that either until today, and they were playing clips from both the interviews and then listening to her today, and I just was I was taken back by I think that in this situation she was tone deaf, you know. And and once again, you have your own personal preference if you want to date anybody, that's who you like today, and it's nothing wrong with it. But what the problem was when she started to refer two bus drivers as average, when she started to take the bus driver's job, and then she started talking about having s's and d's in school and average and wanted more. And I think the context of that is wrong, because I know bus drivers that never had season d's, right. I know bus drivers who've been a students and just weren't able to come out of school and get different jobs. I know bus drivers who who never even went to school. And I know people who are in certain positions where they seem to have a lot of money that have even Season d's, you know, they are very successful. There are a lot of people I know that didn't even go to school that a millionaires. So I think when she was not she was trying to say something, and I think maybe it came off wrong, you know, but the reality situation is. And then she brought into white supremacy and she said, white supremacy leads leaves our people in positions to where they only aspired to this and they only have that, and that those are true things. But both those can't be true. You can't look down or seemly look down on the bus driver or the person with seas and these and then no white supremacy will put you in a position where you have to take these quote unquote average jobs. Right, You can't look down and speak about white supremacy and not know that white supremacy will exalt the average mediocre white man above a scholarly black person. So we know those things as this. So I think she wasn't listening. She was, and then she was wanting her point to be across, and she wasn't. I didn't think that she was able to properly verbally give her point. And she was given dictionary and it was semantics, and she let semantics and this is the dictionary, you know, definition for average and all that. And I think she didn't understand that she offended people, you know, and when you offend people, you have to take that into accountability. I said, okay, I said something of the people, and she was so doubled down, and she just said, I don't care if God didn't agree with me. I know what I'm saying. And when you take that type of position, it just seems tune death. So you know, I don't want to criticize, but I was giving my perspective, you know, and I'm open to have a conversation or dialogue look to get clarity. But it just seems as if if we're not careful about how we speak about our people, right, if we're not speaking about them in an upliftment, even if we even if we're trying to teach or we want better for them. But when you start telling you just a garbish man, you ain't nothing. It doesn't seem it's not done in love or it doesn't seem as if it's done in love.
Well, I mean, here's my thing. I understand both perspectives, and I understand another thing. Let me just go from work my way from the end of your statement to the beginning the whole idea of being tone deaf or not, you know, not understanding when you offend people. I think that's a tough for us to travel down because there have been times when we are saying something that we believe and we do not care who is offended by it and how people feel. So when I say that I believe that cleanliness is close to godliness, and I refuse to allow people to tell me about You know, I understand that some people have body issues and all of that. I get that, but I am even the people who spoke say, well, they may be depressed and whatnot. I'm still at the place where I'm saying, Okay, I get it, but you still need to try to keep yourself physically clean as best as you can. I know people who live on the street that clean themselves up. God an uncle who lived on the streets, and he used to clean himself up with wipes or whatever he had. So I understand that there are different factors, get it, but I'm not going to I'm not willing to lower my standard of what cleanliness or should be in a realm, of course, because everybody has anything. Listen, let me just finish. I'm not willing to lower it. And I am not going to be bullied or shames into changing my opinion. Right. And there are people who are veheminently against what I'm saying, upset about it, and have unfollowed me because they told me that. They demanded that I delete my post or stop saying things and apologize, and I refuse to do it.
Okay, So can I just want to give one Okay, just one thing, and that is one hundred percent right if that's how you feel. So what I'm trying to say is if you say that, you can't also say but I'm not trying to offend people who aren't clean, right, and just say I don't care if you said I'm not trying to offend people who aren't clean. This is what I'm saying. And I'm saying, no, you are people who aren't clean, right. You can't all you both of those things. That's what I'm trying to say. You can have that but that has to be your position.
Well, at the end of the day, you know, sometimes whoever we offend, we offend, and we have to just accept the fact that that happens. But I'm not necessarily targeting any one person. I'm just saying that this is an overall thing that I believe, that it's my standard, and that if I have a family member or friend who tells me I'm depressed and I'm not really taking care of myself properly, I'm going to do everything I can not to shame them, but to encourage them to do better, right, and whatever, if it's medical, if it's whatever. So I'm just saying, you're I hear what you're saying. I guess it's semantics to the point that I guess everany was trying to make, which I didn't hear any of this accession.
And also you can't you can't follow up that up and say, well, I understand that white supremacy has our people on the streets and white supremacy has them in this situation and mental health, and say all of that.
But I could argue, even with that point that if my son or your son, or anybody else child comes to me and says, well, the black man has it hard, and the black man has been through so much, and white supremacy, this and that and the third. That doesn't mean that I'm gonna be like, Okay, well I get it, and therefore you can go and be average, mediocre, shoot guns, kill people, scam, lie, cheat, go to So I'm still going to hold you to a certain standard.
But with those things, that's what I'm saying. If he comes to you, it's a different conversation.
No, no, no, But I'm sure are You're not gonna.
Give him the excuses for why he should be mediocre. So it's understanding the reasons why these things ain't happening, and then't say it's his fault.
But I am sure. I'm sure though that the bus driver whomever it is that she's talking about, has approached her and tried to, you know, see what's up or whatever, and she probably turned down certain individuals like that. Now, I thought what was hilarious was a video that a Yalla van Zant did and she didn't get to finish the video, or maybe she did, but I saw the tagline because she got distracted by some of chin hair, so she never finished the video, but it looked like she was about to talk about the situation again, and on the bottom it said, the question is whether or not the bus driver will date you. I and so that brings me to my mid So I'm saying that I see points in all sides, right, because I too do not want to date anybody that I have to take them and dust them off and create so and so. But who am I to assume that a bus driver would be that there might be a bus driver out here. But I get her concept, I get what she's trying to say. I do think to your point that it went in the wrong direction, because the point is that there are a lot of successful women who are constantly having to deal with people that we meet that can't really do much for us and emotionally or financially, and it is a struggle that we face. But the bigger struggle that I know exists is having the rich man or the man not in my life. So let me be clear, because I had and still am very very dear and close to a very wealthy man that I was with for over ten years and he treated me like a queen. It just time, you know, life happens and people go in their separate directions. But I can't sing and say anything nasty by him. However, I have been approached by many men who have extreme resources, and they're narcissists, they're nasty, their liars, their cheaters, they're all types of things. So I wouldn't typecast anybody, because I know bus drivers that are amazing in terms of how they love their wives, their families, how they stand up in their communities. And I do believe that as a woman, a part of what makes us who we are is the ability to help build an empire with your man who might be a bus driver, and so long as he has the ambition, he don't got to own the bus company at the time, but it certainly should be a goal of ours. And I should be able to look at this man and say he has the potential, the drive, the passion, the work, you know, work hard, all those things, the work ethic, and me, with my skills and my belief in him and all the things that I have together, we can own the bus company. That's the way that I see it. So just to be clear, I don't I wouldn't say that the only way our data bus driver is if he owns the bus company. But I do understand the challenge that many successful black women are facing where it is very difficult for us to find people who are compatible with us. So all I was saying is that there's no one clear cut answer except that, yes, if the bus driver approached me and I saw in him the passion and all the things that I am looking for in a man, one hundred percent, because I know that I as a black woman who is strong and skillful and has resources, I know that the partner that I find that has the wherewithal and the passion and everything again the work ethic to build with me. We can own not just one bus company, when we can own the bus company, the private car service, the this, the that, and all types of things if we can build. So I feel differently about that. But I know it's a challenge to find compatible men, not just black, not just whatever, compatible men who also are of sound character for us today. That's all I'm saying.
I get it. I get it, So listen to you gotta listen to the interview, and then you have a better understanding just my position or what it is because because I agree.
Disagree with your position.
No, no, I'm not saying we or not.
I'm just saying, so you have content that a better understanding. And I'm saying that whether I have a listen to the video or not, I hear what you're saying. But I do think that there are moments when you say something and you mean it and you don't care what happens, and that's fine, and.
That's what That's what I'm saying. I think that that should have been more of a position in this situation. I think that she she she brought into so many different factors and she she brought in a conversation that was really an individual choice, right, and she made she brought in that, and she brought different factors that didn't coincide with her original point was. And I think that's what it was to me. So you if you if your preference is you don't want to date the bus driver and you want to date this type of individual, that's fine, and nobody can't take you from that, and nobody can make you you don't.
Want to day Yeah, I mean, okay, well you know some people, some people don't feel as fine. But anyway, I have not had a chance to sit and listen to the interviews, because I have been spending a great deal of time really trying to understand the full situation with Jordan Neely. And I don't mean the full situation as in he was choked by a white man and held down by to other individuals on the train. That's understanding all of that is one part, but understanding more about who he is and more over, trying to understand why at this point, which, by the way, for those who are listening and those who are watching, we are taping our shows, taping street politicians. Excuse me, we are taping street politicians days before you all will see it. I talk about this all the time, but repetition is important. So we filmed, you know when our guests are available, and our schedules and what have you. And therefore, as we are sitting down today, there's still not been an indictment of the man who is seen in the video that is now viral choking Jordan Mealy to death, nor the other two individuals, one who's a person of color and another white man who held him down while he was being killed. And so at this point we're speaking from that perspective, and so we don't know the name of this formal marine, which is interesting because if people now know that he's a former marine, and I see it in actual articles, news articles, it says that he's a former marine, that means they have to know who he is, because you can't say that somebody is a former marine if you don't know who they are. You gotta know. And for whatever reason, the media has refused to put out his name as of today. Why why do they not have a problem putting out our names all the time, telling you everything about our background down to when we was two years old and spit on a sidewalk.
That's the fact. You know, the situation was crazy. Like you said, I really just wanted to understand, and like I was saying I was saying to you earlier, the broader conversation for me is what do we as just civilians, you know, just just people from the community. What are we just allowing to happen in our communities? Right? The fact that a man was just sitting there for fifteen minutes, just choking another man, I don't know what.
For fifteen minutes, people, it was five okay.
Well, even if you just choking somebody for five minutes, Like at some point when you see, like it's a lot of homelessness in the train, and it's a lot of mental health on the train. And I don't know if he needed to be subdued. I don't know if he did something that, you know, people felt threatened. And I'm not saying that the immediate you're holding over him and putting them, but when you start choking somebody, and as an ex marine, you know that you could take their life. You know, you have a skill set and understanding about these particular holes that you could take somebody's life, right, And then people looking on and the people who were there with him, I just don't know how somebody that say, okay, just get off and just get up his neck. We got him, you know, just hold him, Let's hold him here, don't choke him. We don't. We're not trying to kill. Like, I don't understand why there's no more, no more of value for life. There's there's a less value for life. There's a less value for hurting and harming people. People are getting numb to hurting and harming people. They become accustomed to this level of aggression and violence. And it's just like, I want to know, how do we get so far from consciousness, you know. That's that's the question for me. It's just like people hold cameras. They can sit there and see somebody, damn the choking to death, and you just holding a camera. You ain't saying what I'm just saying. But when the process of him getting to choke to death there was a process that got did you understand?
So I I agree with you that the videotape in is triggering for me, right sometimes. But I do have a different perspective on this because the person who was video on, who had a very steady hand, is a journalist, right, who reports the news, and and he or she they I think it's a he I have the only account of what took place, right, And sometimes when you are actually in the incident, when you when you are a party to the incident happening, your statement of what took place is one scrutinized and potentially debunked and what have you. And also you don't know all everything that's going on, can't see everything, and don't necessarily have all of the facts straight either, right. So I appreciate the fact that this man or this person, this journalist, was able to get a clear cut video and also has made a very clear, at this point unchallenged statement about what took place, which is he said that Jordan Neely got on the train and said, I'm hungry, I'm thirsty, I'm tired, and I don't care if I go to jail with some expletives in the middle of all of that, right, and then he took his jacket and threw it to the ground, and he said that the white man walked up behind his back and grabbed him, took him down to the ground, and then we see what happened on the video thereafter.
That's crazy.
So this is what he said, right, So I great with you about the video thing. I'm just trying to make sure that we put into proper context. Why it's also important that we have a very neutral, uninvolved person who is just filming and just reporting on what took place to prove what I believe already, because and I am listen my text messages from people sending me screenshots of other people's text mess because everybody knows not to text me and try to make excuses for what happened to Jordan Neely. But people are having conversations. The amount of people who are devastated, stressed out, scared to death and everything else of the train because of the crazy stuff that's going on. People getting spit in the face, houseless or unhoused individuals, or people in general because you don't know if they're unhoused or not, exposing themselves, hitting people, throwing people in front of the train, on the train tracks, stabbing people. All of these things are real. They're real concerns, and they're real problems. And I see people in my comments who are like, you don't know anything about the train unless you live in New York and ride. Y'all been riding the train my whole entire life. Okay, don't ride the train today, partially not even because of myself, but because y'all have pretty much banned me from going on the train since you know, at this point, people know me. And if I'm by myself, if I were two or three people and we need to get from one stop to the next in Manhattan, there's no way I'm gonna be like, oh, we're gonna get in an uber and either pay the money or deal with the traffic we get on the train. But by myself, I rode the train, and you know that up until maybe about a year or so ago, well around COVID, I was riding the train up and down, taking the Metro North to the Then I would get on and by the way, people on the Metro North be bugging too. But taking the Metro North and then getting on the regular train to cross over the shuttles, walking through forty second Street, walking through a lot of different places and taking the number five than the two train uptown or whatever. I did that. So you can't tell me I know the trains are crazy. What I'm saying is that you don't get to kill somebody because we know how the trains are. Well, we know how the trains are in quotes, we know how the trains are. So therefore you get to kill a person because he was saying things you didn't like and screaming in a way that you felt uncomfortable. If that's the case, fuck it, people could just do whatever. I've been making the case all day. If that's the case, then we should not lock Pooky up for shooting John John, because John John is dangerous. He'd done been to jail, he'dne made me afraid. The community is it is violence everywhere. Everybody is scared, and he said some ship maybe to me about me, or he just got came outside and was like, I'm a fuck everybody up, wait till you see me, And then I just why can't I show him?
No, You're right, I will. I will say that in these times, if a person got on the train and set all of that and looked kind of deranged, right, I would have probably I would have been aware, right, and I wouldn't have been I wouldn't have been opposed to somebody holding him, restraining him to make sure he didn't have a gun that he played in an open fire on the train. I wouldn't have been opposed to that, right, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I would definitely would not have been opposed because if you get on the train and we've seen people shooting up the trains and all that, so if you get on there and you speaking and you saying you know your foot well going to jail. I got to make sure you don't gotta go. Okay, but I don't need to choke. What I'm trying to say is hear you don't need to choke you and it hurts you to make like once I grab you and I'm like, yo, somebody make sure you don't got done in this podcast, because maybe that's what but choking a man to death who has done no physical harm to anybody who has just said words, just because you you harm that man, you assaulted that man, You're to see what I'm saying, and then you took his life, and so you killed that man.
And that's and that's what I'm saying. I'm saying so that we're clear that maybe you did feel threatened, because I understand that the train is threatening, I get it. All I'm saying is that the fact that that man is dead and I don't have any example of physical brutal violence, bloodshed, all the bloodshed, I can't accept it. Saying just be talking about mental health. And it is Mental Health Awareness Month and we're focused on mental health for the rest of the month. And obviously mental health is at the center of this discussion. But so many others shooting in Atlanta, I mean, just too many things happening. We are having a gain come on, and I think we should take the rest of our time to bring our guests on because we run our mouse too much and we never get to do some of the stuff we're supposed to do on the show. So let's introduce the guests into the conversation. So we have been joined by yesterday. That's really really someone important to me in my life because he is helping me to keep my mind in order with all of the just wild things that's happening in our society. You know that I have been doing trauma work unfortunately for a long, long long time, and you've joined me on this journey and it is mentally taxing not to mention all the personal stuff that we have to deal with in our lives. And so my doctor is joining us today and that's doctor Michael Practice. So let me just tell you about how much of a boss he is because beyond just being you know, which I think is pretty important, just being my doctor, but he has some other very very impressive thing that he has done. He's a psychiatrist by trade and has also had deep study in neurology. So psychiatrists and a neurologist, which you know, we folks don't understand that it's important to understand the brain and how things operate and what triggers people in order to be a good psychiatrist and doctor dealing with mental health issues. And then he's worked with the New York State Commission of Correction and so we know, we know how serious it is that we have people in the system in New York who are black black men working with and you know, trying to help make some changes within the system. He's worked at Saint John's Hospital, has been in the psych emergency room department, and has a host of clients, including young children. So I want folks to know that we didn't just go find Ta Meeka's doctor, who's just the regular guy that you know, does some things. Know, this man is celebrated, decorated, and has a very long history in dealing with the mental health of so many people and especially us as African Americans. So I'm proud today to introduce to some people my son and I know you well. Nigaul Praz Thank you so much.
Peace King, How you feeling today.
Man, feeling enthusiastic?
So yeah, that's that's good. I want to feel like that I've been There's been so much going on, you know, I want to ask you a question. Being at his Mental Health Awareness month, you know, and we just had this situation on the train that just happened with Jordan nearly and the train station seems like it is overloaded with mental health issues, you know, and people who have mental health issues. It's like so many people on the trains. That's one of the major things that we talk about, and we hear a bond the trains. What is your take on.
Can we also just say, because I want to make sure that people do not believe or do not walk away with the narrative that just the people that you see sleeping on the train yelling out people who are on housed that they are the only ones that are having mental health issues on the train. You can see people who are professionally dressed and look like they got it going on, who are also dealing with mental health challenges.
Sure. Yeah, mental health challenges is a very broad category and it's a spectrum. It goes from you know, highly functioning people who may just have a little bit of anxiety down to people with significant what we call serious and persistent mental illness. One the majority of people with mental illness are not aggressive. They actually are disproportionately victimized, So it's really important that we maintain compassion. These are individuals who have impaired thinking, their thought process, their ability to solve problems is impaired, and so what you'll find is more basic instincts like wanting to be warm versus being cold, wanting to feel dry versus being wet. And so a place like a subway is a dormitory in a sense, it's a shelter as compared to being on the street. So what we could do is use these places that naturally attract folks who are having difficulty making decisions, and we can put people in those places to act as monitors, act as folks who could potentially provide a service. And so we should number one, think about bringing the service to the people because services has already existed in New York and so there is no shortage of doctors. Now there may be a weight or an appointment, but anyone who sort of really wants mental health and has the ability to pay for it can get it. So now we're talking about people who either don't have the ability to pay for it or don't have access to it. Where we need to be looking to lower the burden of access to care, moving care to places where people are to homeless, shelters to bus terminals, subway stations, et cetera.
So you're saying that you support having actual practitioners if you will in the train station, maybe riding the trains, to work with and talk to individuals. And now the next question is going to be I'm sure because we've got a certain type of audience. Some of them are semi or want to be bougie or very bougie, all the spectrum. They will say that what happens to that mental health professional if a problem breaks out? How do they deal with their own safety?
Sure, the way we have dealt with safety issues involving mental health employees of folks who deliver care is with law enforcement. That's not necessarily the best tool, but that is what is existing today. If you go into a psychiatric emergency room and you're unable to contain yourself, security will physically help you out of that situation, and so it does. Unfortunately, sometimes folks will need hands on. But I would feel more comfortable if that the entire interaction was based on a mental health call rather than a criminal call. I think the police officers may have a slightly different attitude toward training, toward responding toward emotional crisis, which is different than law enforcement, where you want right to force a person to comply. Many times people having a mental health crisis aren't thinking clearly, and they don't even understand the demands that you're putting on them. They either don't understand it or in some way they're paranoid or having some other kind of interpretation of what you're saying, and so in their mind they may be responding appropriately. And if your goal as a police officer is to simply enforce the commands that you're giving, you're going to have a lot of conflict and hurt people. So I'm advocating for bringing services to places where you find people who need those services. That's what I'm advocating for. The specifics of that will need to be flushed out.
So when we look at you know, when we look at this situation in general, right and we see we from the reports that we were getting, what happened to the man? They said, they say that he came onto the train and he was very all right. He said he was hungry, he said he was tired, and he then Kivy went to jail. And how would you tell just the average citizen, because a lot of average citizens are just scared, you know, when you see someone in that mental capacity like, we don't we're not trained, So sometimes we might need to hear from people like yourself that would know what to do in that situation. What would you advise in situations like that?
Yeah, I have a couple of thoughts. One is it is unfortunate that people are so scared, but part of that is our fault. When we let the most needed, the most mentally unstable people go without services and go untreated in our community, and they act out as they're trying to put two and two together, it does impact the citizens of that neighborhood and then they do react in a way that is more scared. But that is largely on our failure to address the undercare of these people. So let's get that point out there first. So people are now reacting to the fact that they know their untreated mental health individuals wandering around without access to care.
That should.
Make all of us a little hesitant. So what you want to do is always be a safe distance from someone. And what I would like is for us for our citizens to have access to be able to have a number to call. Maybe you know, we say see something, say something, Maybe we make a big push to help our folks who seem to be in need.
If you see.
Someone who seems to be having an emotional meltdown, you can call this number or you can do that and people who are competent in that area can respond or could respond.
Would you approach a person like that? Just you being? I mean, I know you. So you go up to young kids in the park that could be fighting. It looks like it's going to get violent, and you may go up to them and try to help to de escalate we in that situation, do you or any situations like that, would you feel comfortable approaching them? Or would you try to just keep everybody else around calm to let that, you know, to maybe get off the train at the next stop, Like, how would you handle it?
Yeah?
I think you know, those kind of common sense solutions are what I would advocate for. But I guess the starting position that here's another human being who is in distress us, and there's nothing wrong with asking, hey, is there something? Is there something I can do? Are you okay? There's nothing wrong with having a conversation from a safe distance, which is about how the distance for you to get hit. You want to sort of stay out out of that striking range. So I don't find there's anything wrong with if it seems appropriate to see if a person needs help. I don't see anything wrong with if that person responds to you in a positive way. You got to be careful. Sometimes I talk to folks as a professional and they start to escalate, and then I know to back away, which is sort of opposite of what sort of law enforcement and other people are trained. When you resist, they sort of push up the force, whereas when folks with mental health issues push back, we really back away and give them room. Yeah, I would encourage people around to calm down, maybe give this man some room to see if he would get off at the next stop. I don't think there's anything wrong with saying something kind or hair Are you okay?
Oh no? So I was about to ask two questions. There was there was a procedure of process that you were discussing with us before we started. I want you to go into that because I think that was pretty much brilliance. And maybe this is kind of along the same lines. But I think since we see, like you said that the train station is sort of like a dormitory people who are experiencing mental health. Why it would be common sense to me that we have mental health workers within the MTA and stops alone. We got so many cops, right. The thing is this, we we America has said that we could just put cops everywhere and it's gonna stop very So if we got three cops, why not to have one cop or maybe two cops in any mental health worker at every station that they control me? Because people are experiencing mental health more then they have it. Then the violence and the point most of those things are as a result, in my mind or what I believe, as a result of people dealing with mental health issues. So do you think that would be, you know, a good solution.
I think that would be an excellent solution in an in a more ideal setting. And I don't want to be jaded, but the reality is, the budgets, from my understanding, you know, don't have a lot of extra room to hire a bunch of new folks. Would that be better? It would be better, But there are some solutions and ideas that are currently in place. If we approached and looked at the laws, maybe a little bit differently. So I'll tell you New York is different than most states and that we have designated psychiatric emergency room called CPEP or Comprehensive Psychiatric Right Emergency Programs. These are places, they're dedicated, freestanding. There's one at Bellevue, King's County and the Bronx, multiple places throughout the city, all through upstate New York. They're based upon the population to serve a certain number of people. These facilities have the ability to evaluate people twenty four to seven and keep people in the hospital if and give them the care that they need. The problem is how do you get someone there? And the way that the laws set now, and this already exists, if a family member or I can even do this for one of my patients, I could write what's called a pickup order saying that I empower the who whatever law enforcement officer comes across this person, that I put on the paper to take that person to the nearest psychiatric emergency room, right, and that pickup order already empowers any law enforcement agency to not only pick the person up, but take them to get care. The problem is that it's a reactionary law. It has to be implemented, and so I've been trying to push for the idea to see if we couldn't get our mayor to see if in a legal way, we can't empower our law enforcement agents already given the fact that this is a crisis, and therefore identifying someone who's clearly in an emotional decompensated state can be then taken to a psychiatric emergency room. The excuse has been they're not committing a crime, I can't arrest them. You don't just arrest people. You also, when engaged, can act as a transporter to a mental health facility. This already exists, and it should be enacted in a proactive way. And what you would see is and again officers would need more training. More folks would need more training. But as you see typical symptoms of someone who's in distress, that that police officer will be able to take that person into care immediately. You know.
It's so I'm listening to everything you're saying, and I hear it, and it's right right. It sounds right like we've got to be able to transport people, which I guess was the initial concept that Eric Adams, mayor Adams and New York was talking about having people remove from you know wherever outsleeping outside outside of businesses on the train and taken to a facility so that they can get help. Sometimes the way in which Mayor Adams speaks his tone, people don't like it, you know, and even I have felt uncomfortable with the way in which things are set and how you lead, right because people want to hear compassion, especially when you're talking about very very very vulnerable, a very very vulnerable part of the population, which sometimes it could be black men that we're talking about in general that are not unhoused, or you know, black children or whatever. We want you to lead with so much compassion first, and then get to the part about is what are the steps so I hear you. What I'm challenged with is how the systems in America and in New York and across this country have failed black and brown people so much. And because we are the ones who have the most visible signs of all the things, you know, and that's everything, every statistic, every health concern, every challenge, we have the most visible because we have the most poverty, and therefore most of us are the ones on the train having the mental health issues, needing housing. And what happened It is very scary for people to even consider supporting a plan for the same officers who even when folks are not having mental health to have to engage them. So it's like, how do we ever move the car?
Sure, So, you know, let's just be really clear, we uh as as black folks have survived this genocide attempt, you know, throughout throughout history, and we have suffered the consequences of you know, systemic racism, and so you do see a disproportion of amount of men separated from their families and in poverty secondary to hundreds of years of just racism and discrimination. When you combine that with the fact that due to racism and discrimination, symptoms that are presented to individuals who don't usually work with black folks are largely misinterpreted, and you see higher rates of accurate diagnosis incorrect medications. They tend to over prescribe for black boys. Any child that's in any system, whether it's shild protect or foster care, any or whatever, is four times more likely to be on a psychotropic medication. Unnecessarily. I spent a lot of my time taking kids off of medication. And so that's the consequence of race. The current crisis that we have requires us to do something. And what I am proposing is, yes, our police officers have many, many, many challenges, and it is yet another burden. But what I'm saying to me is this, this system is already in place, and we can turn this on today. This would serve to bring people. What I'm advocating for is if you see someone in distress, and again these officers would need to be trained on this, and it seems reasonable, you would bring them to the SEAPEP and then the officer is gone. Now the patient is in my care. Now I can go in and do a psychiatric evaluation. And if you don't need to be in a psychiatric facility, I'm not going to keep you there, but that should be where that's where the mental health people are.
And so.
Or maybe we say, hey, it looks like your primary issue actually is medical. A lot of times there's sometimes there's underlying medical conditions that you're unaware of. When somebody has on ten coats and ten pair of pants, you don't know what their skin looks like, you don't know what that diabetic foot looks like, and they're confused and disoriented. Right, So, people who are acting in an unsafe way need to be evaluated and right now we have a system in place that could function to bring those folks in then be handed off to mental health professionals from SEAPEPS. And again, my SEAPEP directors are probably going to be upset with me, but it would be it would be more funding into the SEAPEP to be able to respond to these But from there then we can send you to a shelter, we can send you to you to a rehab, we can get you on you know, if you need replacement for heroin addiction. All of that comes from SEAPEPS and it already exists. We already send people there today.
And I guess it might Son, I know you wanted to jump in, but I guess what I'm saying, which we are all saying, is that the transport issue is problematic. Just how so, perhaps what we're saying is that there has to be a SEAPEP model that is brought to the people. I mean, you said that you started out saying we've got to go to where the problem is and work with the communities. And that is the same sort of model and mentality that we were we work under as organizers that we've got to go to where the people are, and not assume that because we posted a thing on social media that folks are going to show up, Not that because we set up a you know, a food pantry at a church or in a building, that people are gonna come there to get the services.
Some people will, some people will were talking about the rest that don't.
Take it to the corner that they walk past frequently. Maybe you can knock on doors to provide those things. And I and that would require us to take mental health very very seriously correct. It would require us to shift funding maybe from some places and look at the ways in which we fund programs now, because when we say that there may or may not be any money, well is we're militarizing police every day, We're buying equipment that is so expensive that and waits for a potential crisis, versus using those dollars to deal with housing and health and whatever. So that's my little rant in my soapbox. But I do have one question because I want to shift because I know it's time for you and us to go young people. First of all, we saw just here in the last few days again mass shootings are happening, just often too often, and there's a young man who he shot and killed. One person shot several people with I guess sixty six people in Atlanta, all women between the ages of twenty and seventy. One of the on the younger side of that number, a person died, a woman died. His mother said he's been a mess since his medicine got messed up. There are people listening. I have friends, and it's no secret that the reason why you became my doctor is because I suffered an addiction issue connected to my own mental health challenges, and you walk me through that. I have had people doing my hair, doing my makeup, doctor Pratz, people helping me, you know, at events. Maybe they're the photographer. Since they've heard my story, since I've been telling the story, they whisper. They don't say it in public. Celebrities send me messages and they say, hey, what do I do? You know my family member or I'm asking for a friend. How did you get off of, you know, whatever you were addicted to. I don't always have an answer. I don't and I would, you know. I'd love for you to talk to those families today. During mental health awareness mon we're supposed to talk about young people and black men and somehow we all over here.
But for people who.
Are listening today mental Health Awareness Month, what is the message about how you get your self help and or people around you? And just make sure as you're talking about this, include a peace about the shame because most people that's what is the barrier for them.
Yeah, you know, part of the pressure that's been put on us is you got to be twice as good where you know, particularly black women are expected to you know, function at the highest capacity no matter what they're hired for. And so then what ends up happening is the pressure that's put on us causes us to neglect our not just our mental health care, but also our medical care. So you know, our brothers getting their prostate exams and their blood pressures and things like that. And so I think, first of all, you know, we have to really get out of that mindset that we need to be twice as good and that we being good doesn't include taking care of ourselves. So we need to put self care first. I hope that what you'll do is post my book on your website is called Mind Matters, a Resource Guide for Black People Serving Black Communities For Black communities and what we do in this book is is really talk about mental illness in very plain terms. Anyone can read this book. It goes through all of the diagnosis and what this would do for you and your family members is give you the world. It's in plain language to be able to express to your doctor, to your therapist what these concerns are. Frequently it seems scary the symptoms. They seem, you know, in some way like they I've heard people say, oh, they're possessed, or there's something spiritual. This is biologically based and it would help us to become more familiar with mental health. It's something that we have looked at with shame and embarrassment. I get the same thing wherever I go. I give these talks, and when I ask people to raise their hand if they don't have any issues, no one ever raises their hand. But before I could get the door, they're pulling my coat, slipping me their number, doing all kinds of things because they actually do have this need. So I think that's number one. The second point is that mental health services are available right now now. A lot of it is online, and I do realize it's not as good as face to face, but I promise you having a therapist and someone to contact online in a crisis is better than no one. It's better than no one. So I would encourage people to use on some of these online access, online access to mental health services and thirty. This is just my opinion. We really need to do more in the schools. We need to be more leaning more towards emotional intelligence. The mental health is at the end of it, but we should be picking up kids in the beginning. When they're hungry, that's a predictor of mental health. When you see they're wearing tattered clothes, that's a predictor of mental health. When they're failing their grades before you put them in special Ed. I'm trying to get these kids out of special ed. How about we start doing mental health evaluations.
And there you said, when they're clothes, look like down or whatever, that's an indicator.
That's a future mental health challenge. And I'll tell you why. Yes, let me speak on that. It's the weakest link when people. I'll put it like this, if you look one hundred families in distress for whatever reason, and you gave them all five thousand dollars not even know what the problem is. I guarantee you a lot of them, a lot of their situation would improve the arguments the husband, the fighting would go away. That that night at dinner, you laid that five thousand dollarsand table. The husband and wife aren't fighting anymore that night. So people under pressure bubble over. And so when a kid doesn't have clean clothes or enough to eat, it's an indicator that things are not adequate in the house. That should call our attention to go see why is that mother not bathing that child. Maybe she has depression and she's laying in the bed. And so that kid, who then is suffering more pressure, is more likely to try something for relief, to drink, something, to smoke, something, to try some physical harming to make themselves feel better, to hide and shame. It's that.
That's so what I I want to end this pretty much with two things. I need you to do. I need you give us your back. You know, you sound like one of the best psychologists I've ever heard, knowing as an individual, you adope all around individual. Let these people say how long you've been studying you know, let them know where they can find you, because we need people like you, man, We need people to reach out to people like you.
Well, I'll tell you I grew up in Chicago and was struggling myself as a young person and ended up going to prison at eighteen years old. And I'll tell you that experience has shaped me as a man and as a formally incarcerated individual. Have tried to navigate through life with this burden of a telony that has I'm going to estimate, you know, delayed me probably ten to twelve years. Even though I passed all the tests to become a doctor, to go to college, I was constantly denied and in my pursuit of access to becoming a mental health provider, which.
How loo were you? Because I didn't want to cut you. No, that's fine.
I was sittence to four years, and so I did about two years.
Wow, I never knew that I gotta we gotta do sit downs with the stand ups. I need you on my sit downs with the stands ups, where we sit down and we go from everything about formally incus rated. How it's become successful. So that's later on.
But okay, so I got out of believe it or not, I actually wrote I was writing letters to colleges from prison. I was pretty daeved. I got accepted into Berkeley. I got out of prison I think in July of nineteen eighty seven, and within a couple of months I was a freshman at Berkeley and studied molecular and cell biology. I then went to the University of Southern California. I applied to thirty medical schools. I got rejected by twenty eight. Fortunately, the University of Southern California saw fit to admit me even though you know, I had a felony. So really what happened was you need people to give you opportunity, so it's so easy that you know this to slam the door in your face. So then ended up coming to New York. I trained that sunny downstate for child psychiatry. I trained at Monti Fury at the Bronx Psychiatric Center for adult psychiatry. So I've always really worked with marginalized people, homeless outreach in the city. I was there at nine to eleven, volunteered nine to eleven. So so yeah, I felt like, you know, God has really put a responsibility on me, so I give them my time to formally incarcerated people to the black community, to underserve populations to advocate on their behalf because they don't have anybody else to advocate for them.
Well, listen, I truly appreciate you man that I didn't even know that part, but I just knew that she was a dope individual, and you know, I liked you individual. But now hearing that I get you know what I'm saying, It makes you feel a lot better because your representation of what formerly incarcerated people can do because there's such a stigmas and that we are just the words the bottom of the barrel. I heard somebody call somebody at the bottom of the barrele from being incarcerated. So you you represent what someone who has the mind and the heart and the energy that comes home after being incarcerated and suffering to come home and do something successful. So I appreciate you.
Let me give a shot. I got to give a shout out to our Governor Kathy hoche who, despite me having a felony, appointed me to the New York State Commission on Corrections. And now I sit in an oversight position ensuring that there's no shenanigans happening with our incarcerated individuals as far as psychiatric delivery. I also want to give a shout out to New York State Senate who confirmed me knowing that I was a formerly incarcerated individual. So New York State is not just talking about formally incarcerated individuals, but actually do on something. And that's an example right there.
That's what I'm talking about, Mike.
Sometimes sometimes I love New York. Sometimes I don't, you know, what is that?
What is it?
Mounds?
Don't?
Okay, one of those things. That's how I feel about it. You know, I am emotional because I know all of this stuff, but I didn't know what you would bring up today about your background. Some people sometimes you do it all the time. Sometimes we don't. And I know your story and I know your commitment. I know your family. Obviously, your wife Hasani is one of my best friends and has mentored me, you know, in the political space in New York and beyond, and I am just so proud to be friends with you all because I know what you do. I know the commitment you have. I know that when I'm talking to you, I'm speaking to you, not to everybody. My business is not being told to the world, because that was one of the reasons why I've had challenges with with working with mental health professionals in the past because I was worried about what they would tell other people. And it just has been a pleasure. And if you are someone who's listening and trying to get in touch with Michael Pratt, and first of all, the information will be included in this episode, but please tell folks how to find you and thank you, thank you, thank you for joining the Street Politicians.
Sure, sure, absolutely, you can just google my name Michael Pratts. I'm listed there one of the black psychiatrists are Greater New York. My contact information is there to mean hopefully you'll publish the book on your website. The link to that Mind Matters a resource guide right for the black community. Plain language everyone should read. Thank you, appreciate you, thank you, thank you.
That was excellent. And I didn't even know all of those things about Mike, say you holding out like I knew you could.
Sometimes. I mean, we've had people on the show before guests that they didn't tell me to bring up that they were formerly incarcerated. Like sometimes people don't want to talk about it, sometimes not because they're ashamed, but because if you're talking about the professional work, they don't want you to be over.
You know.
So I'm glad that he wears it as a badge of honor. And that's what sit Down with the Standums is about. It's about highlighting brothers like Michael, Like this is a successful psychiatrist, someone who is really successful, and he broke down his accolades. He sits on the board for formally incarcerated individuals that.
He was appointed for the commission people.
Okay, so listen, yeah, for the people for the Department of Crisis. So that is important. It's important that people who are incarcerated or formally incarcerated coming home see that, see somebody like him, and say, Wow, it's not over for me. Whatever society is saying about me is not. And I'm glad that he embraces that. So, you know, the interview in itself was dope, but that just made it ten times dope for me. So definitely gonna have him once sit down to the stand Ups. But on off topic, you know, my my, I don't get this a little old topic. I was in sports mode. You know, we're in the playoffs, so I just been watching sports and I was watching ESPN a couple of days ago, you know, Dylan Brooks. Now you don't know about them. Dylan Brooks is a player on Memphis's He likes to trash talk, you know, he gets in the heads. He's one of those players that we've been celebrating, people like Draymond Green, people like Dennis Rodman, like people like Gary Payton. These were people that throughout history, you know, they would trash talk you. They fied you hard, and that's who they were, you know, and they've been like the garbage man, and they've always existed in basketball, you know. And a couple of days, the Memphis Grizzlies, who is his team, put out a statement saying that they wouldn't be inviting him back to play for the team, and you know, and I think it was biased. I think never before I've seen anything like this, I think, because you know, Lebron James is pretty much hierarchy and you know, he's like basketball royalty. And he talked, he talked trash to Lebron, and Lebron cracked him. So they ended up losing the series. But throughout this whole season he talked trash and they were winning. They were a number one seed, you know, I mean a number two seed. In the West and him talking trash in the level that he played hard every game got them to where they was. And now that you know, they didn't win and it was publicized. You know, what they're doing to this man is something I don't get. I don't think it's right to publicly embarrass him, you know, try to make him the black sheep. He's done nothing that we have not seen throughout history. There's been people that I hated, that talk trash, that fouled the best players, my favorite players, you know, but they they served the job, you know, and I don't see any He ain't no off the court distraction. You don't hear Dylan Brooks then gotten to no fighter out on the street. You know, he ain't out there beating nobody up. He ain't doing no gangs and stuff.
You know.
We we see we've been celebrated negativity and people's characters and in real life. You know, because they can play basketball, they you know, they're good at the sport. But somebody who comes to the sport with a little bit of edge, who from what we can see, is a decent human being, you want to shun an embarrassing, you know, for having a role that has been celebrated in the NBA for years. So I don't really get what it is, you know. And I'm not the biggest Dylon Brooks fan. I really actually don't really like him much. But I think with the NBA and with the Memphis Grizzlies is doing to him is wrong. And I don't really get it. I don't, you know, And I don't know why more athletes and players aren't saying what are you saying? What's happening to Hima Drone? So I just wanted to say that I really just don't get it.
Well, the whole idea of more people speaking up on behalf of folks is it's really the number of people who are willing to speak out is dwindling because the punishment for using your voice has been scaring people. And you can see that, you know, so many have been put in their place, they've been demonized, they've lost money, and they've lost endorsement deals. And therefore, and I'm not just talking about it in sports, just in general, paychecks. Let me not say endorsements, paychecks, and so people have become you know, they're worried about themselves, and so, you know, I think That's one thing I don't really know obviously much about this situation, but what I will say is that it seems like, I mean, we're just in a sensitive spaces as a society, and you know, I feel like I always tell we are all each individual person is a walking contradiction because what we don't agree with on one hand because of our own personal opinions on certain issues, we may support on the other hand, so we are not going to allow or certain things. But then as the walking contradiction is that on the other side, we're like, no, but this shouldn't be an issue. And I say that because the sensitivity around trash talk that seems to be a new thing within sports. It's triggering to a lot of people, like people on both sides. You know, people are like, wait, I don't think we should be censoring or not so much censoring, but changing the flow of the trash talk and the you know, the sort of trolling or whatever you call it, taunting or whatever. People don't want that. But then when it's not their favor when it's their favorite team, they're okay with it. Right when it's their favorite player, they're okay with it. So I don't know where this is going to go. We have to kind of see the direction that this takes on.
I think. I think social media has has put a highlight on everything, and it's allowed people who really don't have any stake or anything to dictate the whole structure of everything. So if you go online and they see a thousand and two thousand people say, f Dylan Brooks, then in their mind, you know, he's he's a liability to the team, you know, So I think, and that's why I try to tell people you can't judge real life on the Internet because it really I'm trying to tell it's a fault. It is a false meter. It is really a false meter. And we've seen that in a lot of situations with court cases and what people were saying and the public opinion of what's going on, and then in real life we were like the Internet was trying to tell us this, and then when real life happened, it'd be completely different. So I just want us not to get so caught up and what the Internet believes, what the Internet tells us, and just start dealing in real life. Do your own research, fact check things, look, you know, understand the reality of what we're doing.
Yeah, well, guess what, you got some nerve Because the people who say the Internet ain't real life, sure enough, spend a lot of time on it trying to convince people of their opinions. But anyway, I digress.
I mean, it's not so much trying to convince. It's just that what I do.
You make a point. If you make a point on the Internet, and you tell two or three people how you feel, that's fool. If you spend hours in a day going back and forth in comments with different individuals on different pages, it's left your page, now it's on this page, and it's hand the third and it said the third. You are trying to convince people of your opinion.
I don't notice that. I'm just I'm just natural. I naturally like to debate.
But why debate people who are not real life?
Because for me, I don't think that the individuals. I don't really think the individuals are real. I just think that their perspectives are something that might be shared with a lot of people. So when they have a perspective, I have no problem shooting down the perspective because I can answer it.
We have different.
I don't okay, we don't agree. Sounds sounds familiar, So listen. Man. Shout out to doctor Michael Pratts for his excellent, you know, understanding of where we are in society today during mental health months. You know, hopefully somebody will listen to this hint and take some of his recommendations for how we deal with mental health in our society right now.
But the police, I don't know, like you know, im, but there has to be adjustments made. But I understand from his perspective.
The principle is that those people need help. People need help, and we need to be able to get them immediate help. And if we allow them to just roam, you know, without help, when we have the ability and people you know, officers are woke up to you and stopping fresh you anyway, right, So if we got stopping friss and people are getting stopping frist every day, and we and we and we able to utilize officers to get mental health people the help they need by walking up to them and saying, hey, we have to take you to a mental health facility and it's documented.
You know, I don't know, we're gonna have to talk about we have to talk a little a whole another day about that because and we would have to talk to law enforcement in New York, because I don't know how you will how in the white community it might work.
It's like a warrant. It's like a warrant, that's what it is. It's like the police to jail. So you have a mental health warrant to where we don't take you to jail, but we take you to a mental facility that can help you because you know it's deemed that you need help mentally.
I yet what you're saying. I'm not trying to argue because I hear what you're saying. I'm just triggered because I know that a lot of people get abused and we never hear and see their stories. A lot of people don't. More people don't get abused by police than do so I'm not you know, we know that that's it. More people don't. More people the situation is resolved, and you know what have you. But they are very egregious acts and cases that cannot be ignored because they're not the majority. And so I don't know. I think you have to be a certain type of officer who sign up for this and has as you were saying, about the having a weapon, right, You got to be constantly monitored for your behavior. You have to have the officer who's standing next to you and other individuals. They have to be responsible for what you do. So if you act out, you and Officer Robbie together need to be held responsible for your actions. Like it has to be so strict that that's going to be the problem because you're gonna have a lot of police officers that's like, I don't want that responsibility. They you know, they're scrutinizing me too much, So then who does the job? I just don't know, That's all I'm saying.
I don't know. Well, we'll discuss it further another day. But with that said, brings us to the end of another show. Shout out to all of our listeners. We appreciate you. A few politicians. Number one podcasts in the world in the world, continue to hit us up, hit us street politicians, pod Let us know what you love, what you hate, what you want to hear, what guess you want us to give me on all of your feedbacks? Man, And once again, I'm not gonna always be right, Tamika d Mallories and I can always be wrong. But we will both always and I mean always, always, always be authentic.
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