A listener. Production.

A listener. Production.

Today's episode with Brendan focuses on subject around mental health and depression. If anything in this podcast brings up difficult feelings for you, please don't hesitate to reach out to someone you trust for support. Alternatively, you can call lifeline anytime at 13 1114 for assistance.

Today's episode with Brendan focuses on subject around mental health and depression. If anything in this podcast brings up difficult feelings for you, please don't hesitate to reach out to someone you trust for support. Alternatively, you can call lifeline anytime at 13 1114 for assistance.

My first gig I did when I was about 16 and with very bad.

My first gig I did when I was about 16 and with very bad.

It was the first two years of a ten year drought. After we lost dad, we just sort of threw good money after bad.

It was the first two years of a ten year drought. After we lost dad, we just sort of threw good money after bad.

I'm Sarah Grimberg and in each episode I'm joined by a guest whose journey was made against the backdrop of regional Australia. These are the stories of us. Today's guest is Brendan Cullen, a sheep station manager from Broken Hill in New South Wales.

I'm Sarah Grimberg and in each episode I'm joined by a guest whose journey was made against the backdrop of regional Australia. These are the stories of us. Today's guest is Brendan Cullen, a sheep station manager from Broken Hill in New South Wales.

It's 150,000 acres or 60,000 hectares, so there's a bit of country out there to look after.

It's 150,000 acres or 60,000 hectares, so there's a bit of country out there to look after.

Brendan has grappled with the pressures of rural life, including farming challenges, drought and isolation, which eventually led to a battle with depression.

Brendan has grappled with the pressures of rural life, including farming challenges, drought and isolation, which eventually led to a battle with depression.

You're constantly judging yourself. Whether you're making the right and wrong decisions, you don't know where to look.

You're constantly judging yourself. Whether you're making the right and wrong decisions, you don't know where to look.

Having come through his own mental health journey, Brendan now serves as a lifeline Ambassador. Extending support to others in need.

Having come through his own mental health journey, Brendan now serves as a lifeline Ambassador. Extending support to others in need.

Created a new life for myself in the life that I'm living.

Created a new life for myself in the life that I'm living.

These are the stories of us. Brendan, you grew up in Broken Hill. Tell us a little bit about what it was like at the sheep station growing up in regional Australia.

These are the stories of us. Brendan, you grew up in Broken Hill. Tell us a little bit about what it was like at the sheep station growing up in regional Australia.

Yeah. G'day, Sarah. I was born on a sheep and cattle station north of Broken Hill, a place called Mount Westwood. My memories as a child growing up in that environment was something amazing. It was a privilege to be quite truthful, you know, wide open spaces. You know, certainly no judgment as a kid, you know, there was just plenty to do, you know, running around naked, unashamedly in the backyard. I had a young brother got a young brother that we, um, just living the life and, um, no shoes on barefoot, 4 or 5 KS, walk out into the paddock, you know, walk into Old Gum Tree Creek, you know, lived on top of a hill near a beautiful creek watercourse. Most of the time it was dry because we lived in an environment that average rainfall was only 200 mil a year, was sort of the old scale, eight inches, but it just had the most wonderful time growing up. The only downside is they couldn't keep me in school, started school of the air at the time and and um, they could never find me. So, uh, eventually I had to be sent off to school in Broken Hill. But look, I had a most amazing time as a kid, that's for sure.

Yeah. G'day, Sarah. I was born on a sheep and cattle station north of Broken Hill, a place called Mount Westwood. My memories as a child growing up in that environment was something amazing. It was a privilege to be quite truthful, you know, wide open spaces. You know, certainly no judgment as a kid, you know, there was just plenty to do, you know, running around naked, unashamedly in the backyard. I had a young brother got a young brother that we, um, just living the life and, um, no shoes on barefoot, 4 or 5 KS, walk out into the paddock, you know, walk into Old Gum Tree Creek, you know, lived on top of a hill near a beautiful creek watercourse. Most of the time it was dry because we lived in an environment that average rainfall was only 200 mil a year, was sort of the old scale, eight inches, but it just had the most wonderful time growing up. The only downside is they couldn't keep me in school, started school of the air at the time and and um, they could never find me. So, uh, eventually I had to be sent off to school in Broken Hill. But look, I had a most amazing time as a kid, that's for sure.

Tell us about an average day on the farm.

Tell us about an average day on the farm.

Yeah, so an average day today is get up at five, 530 and basically plan my day out. So it could be either doing stock work, you know, working with sheep. So with our sheep we process our animals to either go to market or just handle the stock, grade them, keep them in good condition and do a lot of drafting and things like that, and also handle our cattle for the same purposes. So that's when we're doing our stock work. Otherwise we do plenty of fencing and maintenance. And you know, one of my day to day jobs is, you know, running waters. So making sure the stock have got plenty of water and just monitoring them. The place that I work on at the moment, it's 150,000 acres or 60,000 hectares. So there's a bit of country out there to look after. So you need to be, you know, on your game pretty well.

Yeah, so an average day today is get up at five, 530 and basically plan my day out. So it could be either doing stock work, you know, working with sheep. So with our sheep we process our animals to either go to market or just handle the stock, grade them, keep them in good condition and do a lot of drafting and things like that, and also handle our cattle for the same purposes. So that's when we're doing our stock work. Otherwise we do plenty of fencing and maintenance. And you know, one of my day to day jobs is, you know, running waters. So making sure the stock have got plenty of water and just monitoring them. The place that I work on at the moment, it's 150,000 acres or 60,000 hectares. So there's a bit of country out there to look after. So you need to be, you know, on your game pretty well.

What are some of the struggles that you come up against?

What are some of the struggles that you come up against?

Oh look if your stock are compromised. So if you know you're going into a drought, say for example, and you're sheep or cattle, start losing condition, you need to put in processes that are going to sort of alleviate their pain, meaning that you have to either shift them out of one paddock into the next or move them off your property, or put them on greener pastures, so to speak. That's one of the struggles and probably overreaching too much, trying to achieve too much in a day that can be an issue, but that's more self-imposed, because one of the things that you you can't escape on these places is you basically have to live in advance. You know, you have to plan so far forward. So and when those I suppose, decisions that you make are compromised, things can become quite difficult. So you need to be able to learn how to handle those type of things. Um, what's.

Oh look if your stock are compromised. So if you know you're going into a drought, say for example, and you're sheep or cattle, start losing condition, you need to put in processes that are going to sort of alleviate their pain, meaning that you have to either shift them out of one paddock into the next or move them off your property, or put them on greener pastures, so to speak. That's one of the struggles and probably overreaching too much, trying to achieve too much in a day that can be an issue, but that's more self-imposed, because one of the things that you you can't escape on these places is you basically have to live in advance. You know, you have to plan so far forward. So and when those I suppose, decisions that you make are compromised, things can become quite difficult. So you need to be able to learn how to handle those type of things. Um, what's.

Your favorite part about farming?

Your favorite part about farming?

I love animals. So, you know, if you can influence the breed that you're working with in a way that you can produce a, you know, a beautiful animal. I love everything about something that's got a heartbeat, basically. And, um, over the years, you'll learn to read your stock just because you're monitoring them all the time. But you're also learn how animals operate, how they move. You can almost read their mind. It might sound a bit corny, but, uh, it becomes an innate ability for most people in the bush.

I love animals. So, you know, if you can influence the breed that you're working with in a way that you can produce a, you know, a beautiful animal. I love everything about something that's got a heartbeat, basically. And, um, over the years, you'll learn to read your stock just because you're monitoring them all the time. But you're also learn how animals operate, how they move. You can almost read their mind. It might sound a bit corny, but, uh, it becomes an innate ability for most people in the bush.

Wow.

Wow.

And that's just living a life with animals for such a long period of time. I mean, I'm 51 this year, and I've spent most of my life with animals around me. So you just get to learn how to how to live with them.

And that's just living a life with animals for such a long period of time. I mean, I'm 51 this year, and I've spent most of my life with animals around me. So you just get to learn how to how to live with them.

Tell us a bit about reading their minds and what sort of things that they do that you can kind of understand what they're thinking.

Tell us a bit about reading their minds and what sort of things that they do that you can kind of understand what they're thinking.

Yeah. So if you're working, say, sheep in the yards, you know, their movements, which way they're going to move, you can pick an animal out of the mob. That is going to be maybe troublesome, but you can also pick an animal out of a mob that may be not well. So if you put a thousand sheep in the yard and you might be able to recognize 1 or 2 of those animals out of a thousand head, for example, and to people that don't work animals or haven't spent a lot of time with them, they just see a head. But we see we probably personalize it a little bit. And for those that would be listening to this podcast and work in the real industry would know exactly what I'm talking about. So you get that it's a learned thing. You got to spend time with them. But then that sort of morphs into being able to read, you know, native animals as such. So yeah, it's just an innate thing, really, and it's a privilege to be able to do that.

Yeah. So if you're working, say, sheep in the yards, you know, their movements, which way they're going to move, you can pick an animal out of the mob. That is going to be maybe troublesome, but you can also pick an animal out of a mob that may be not well. So if you put a thousand sheep in the yard and you might be able to recognize 1 or 2 of those animals out of a thousand head, for example, and to people that don't work animals or haven't spent a lot of time with them, they just see a head. But we see we probably personalize it a little bit. And for those that would be listening to this podcast and work in the real industry would know exactly what I'm talking about. So you get that it's a learned thing. You got to spend time with them. But then that sort of morphs into being able to read, you know, native animals as such. So yeah, it's just an innate thing, really, and it's a privilege to be able to do that.

Wow. I heard that there's such a thing as rural isolation. Can you talk to us a little bit about that and how it sort of comes about and what the signs are?

Wow. I heard that there's such a thing as rural isolation. Can you talk to us a little bit about that and how it sort of comes about and what the signs are?

Yeah. Rural isolation. Will you get to spend a lot of time by yourself? And in most cases, you know, we deal with that. Okay. But. If you're compromised in any way and you start getting in your own head, things aren't going quite right. It can be destroyed. You're constantly judging yourself whether you're making the right and wrong decisions. You don't know where to look if you need help, or you don't find the courage to put your hand up and say, look, I need help here. Whether it be making a decision or you're feeling down or in the dumps. So rural isolation is a very real thing. There are many people out there that are able to help you if you're falling into a dark space. But, um, certainly in my case, I spent most of my life by myself in my work environment. I mean, I have a wife and three lovely kids and and what not, but as soon as you open the door and go out into the paddock, you're basically isolated. You spend a lot of time talking to yourself. And in my case, that happened to me. I become isolated in my own thoughts and a lack of capacity to be able to get rid of stuff out of my head. And, you know, it took me into a dark place, unfortunately. Um.

Yeah. Rural isolation. Will you get to spend a lot of time by yourself? And in most cases, you know, we deal with that. Okay. But. If you're compromised in any way and you start getting in your own head, things aren't going quite right. It can be destroyed. You're constantly judging yourself whether you're making the right and wrong decisions. You don't know where to look if you need help, or you don't find the courage to put your hand up and say, look, I need help here. Whether it be making a decision or you're feeling down or in the dumps. So rural isolation is a very real thing. There are many people out there that are able to help you if you're falling into a dark space. But, um, certainly in my case, I spent most of my life by myself in my work environment. I mean, I have a wife and three lovely kids and and what not, but as soon as you open the door and go out into the paddock, you're basically isolated. You spend a lot of time talking to yourself. And in my case, that happened to me. I become isolated in my own thoughts and a lack of capacity to be able to get rid of stuff out of my head. And, you know, it took me into a dark place, unfortunately. Um.

And so what was the negative spiral that was looping in your head?

And so what was the negative spiral that was looping in your head?

My inability to be able to get thoughts. So I would have conversations with myself regularly and in a way that it was, uh, you know, I was verbalizing the conversation, almost talking to someone next to me. And, uh, when you're having those conversations and you're actually getting answers for the person sitting next to you doesn't exist, you know, there's a bit going on. So that was difficult for me. And not being able to unload. I was basically dodging shadows. You know, I keep looking backwards instead of looking forwards. And I always liked to achieve and I was setting unrealistic goals in my life. And when I wasn't able to meet them, I was struggling to handle that which would frustrate me. And then the added component of self-medication alcohol. So that becomes part of my life, more so than I wanted it to be. And then in the end, you sort of to get rid of the pain. I was drinking more, so not so much during the day, but I would drink heavily at times at night. So basically I was becoming recluse to myself and my family and my friends. I didn't know it at the time. I just thought, yes, I've got to be resilient. I've got to keep pushing on. But it's just a culmination of a heap of stuff. And in truth, it was probably 20 years in the making. To be fair, I heard a clinician talking about the conversation about Self-diagnosing. And number one, how do you do it? Which is bloody hard to recognize in yourself whether you're struggling and it takes, on average, about eight years for someone to put their hand up and ask for help. So, you know, it's a lot. That's a bloody long time, eight years. So in my case, it, you know, possibly 20 years at a guess. Wow. It all just come to a screeching halt. Yeah, absolutely.

My inability to be able to get thoughts. So I would have conversations with myself regularly and in a way that it was, uh, you know, I was verbalizing the conversation, almost talking to someone next to me. And, uh, when you're having those conversations and you're actually getting answers for the person sitting next to you doesn't exist, you know, there's a bit going on. So that was difficult for me. And not being able to unload. I was basically dodging shadows. You know, I keep looking backwards instead of looking forwards. And I always liked to achieve and I was setting unrealistic goals in my life. And when I wasn't able to meet them, I was struggling to handle that which would frustrate me. And then the added component of self-medication alcohol. So that becomes part of my life, more so than I wanted it to be. And then in the end, you sort of to get rid of the pain. I was drinking more, so not so much during the day, but I would drink heavily at times at night. So basically I was becoming recluse to myself and my family and my friends. I didn't know it at the time. I just thought, yes, I've got to be resilient. I've got to keep pushing on. But it's just a culmination of a heap of stuff. And in truth, it was probably 20 years in the making. To be fair, I heard a clinician talking about the conversation about Self-diagnosing. And number one, how do you do it? Which is bloody hard to recognize in yourself whether you're struggling and it takes, on average, about eight years for someone to put their hand up and ask for help. So, you know, it's a lot. That's a bloody long time, eight years. So in my case, it, you know, possibly 20 years at a guess. Wow. It all just come to a screeching halt. Yeah, absolutely.

And so what happened?

And so what happened?

There was a life skills program put on at the Royal Flying Doctor Service. Lady by the name of Jill Rigney. I'd spent a couple of days at this course. I realized that a lot of stuff that she was talking about. Was about my life. But unbeknownst to her, she wouldn't have known that at the time. But basically it sort of jogged something in my mind. It sort of created a thought that I thought, I need to do something about myself. I basically took the courage to take the first step, and I drove to Broken Hill by myself. And even though there's plenty of help around you, you don't know where to look. So I just walked straight up into the Broken Hill Base Hospital and said, look, I need help. I met up with a couple of doctors. They diagnosed me pretty much on the spot with depression, which was the best thing ever for me because I knew something was going on and it was one of the most poignant parts of my life was being, you know, having that diagnosis. In fact, it changed my life forever. And that was in 2015. I'm certainly not in that space now. And, um, thankfully and, uh, yeah, I'm just glad I took that first step and looked for help.

There was a life skills program put on at the Royal Flying Doctor Service. Lady by the name of Jill Rigney. I'd spent a couple of days at this course. I realized that a lot of stuff that she was talking about. Was about my life. But unbeknownst to her, she wouldn't have known that at the time. But basically it sort of jogged something in my mind. It sort of created a thought that I thought, I need to do something about myself. I basically took the courage to take the first step, and I drove to Broken Hill by myself. And even though there's plenty of help around you, you don't know where to look. So I just walked straight up into the Broken Hill Base Hospital and said, look, I need help. I met up with a couple of doctors. They diagnosed me pretty much on the spot with depression, which was the best thing ever for me because I knew something was going on and it was one of the most poignant parts of my life was being, you know, having that diagnosis. In fact, it changed my life forever. And that was in 2015. I'm certainly not in that space now. And, um, thankfully and, uh, yeah, I'm just glad I took that first step and looked for help.

How did it change your life?

How did it change your life?

Yeah, well, first of all, it was a huge relief because I didn't know how to deal with what I was going through. And secondly, it just gave me permission to, um, be vulnerable and be able to hold a conversation and to be somewhat selfless. That was selfish because what I wasn't doing was looking after myself. I was trying to appease other people around me, and that was a constant. And, um, I learnt that you need to put yourself first before you put anyone else in that frame. And that was really difficult to get my head around at the start. But it doesn't mean you're a selfish person by any means. It just means that you need to take care of yourself and how you go about doing that. So with the diagnosis, I created a toolbox for myself, which I carried around with me today. If I fall off the wagon or if I sort of lapse in some way or form, I recognize that in myself and I, um, refer back to my toolbox. That's just basically the mechanics of how I keep myself plowing forward and created a new life for myself in the life that I'm living. So now, um, I'm not so critical of my actions of what I do if I'm compromised between work and family. Family comes first every time. You know my capacity to say no now, as opposed to nodding my head and trying to do something I don't want to do, or don't have the capacity to do, and being able to have honest conversations not only with the people around me, but with myself. I was able to forge forward and change my life.

Yeah, well, first of all, it was a huge relief because I didn't know how to deal with what I was going through. And secondly, it just gave me permission to, um, be vulnerable and be able to hold a conversation and to be somewhat selfless. That was selfish because what I wasn't doing was looking after myself. I was trying to appease other people around me, and that was a constant. And, um, I learnt that you need to put yourself first before you put anyone else in that frame. And that was really difficult to get my head around at the start. But it doesn't mean you're a selfish person by any means. It just means that you need to take care of yourself and how you go about doing that. So with the diagnosis, I created a toolbox for myself, which I carried around with me today. If I fall off the wagon or if I sort of lapse in some way or form, I recognize that in myself and I, um, refer back to my toolbox. That's just basically the mechanics of how I keep myself plowing forward and created a new life for myself in the life that I'm living. So now, um, I'm not so critical of my actions of what I do if I'm compromised between work and family. Family comes first every time. You know my capacity to say no now, as opposed to nodding my head and trying to do something I don't want to do, or don't have the capacity to do, and being able to have honest conversations not only with the people around me, but with myself. I was able to forge forward and change my life.

Amazing what tools are in the toolbox that you could share.

Amazing what tools are in the toolbox that you could share.

Well, number one is alcohol, you know. Self-medicating is it's rife within the rural industry. It's as simple as that. Both alcohol and drugs.

Well, number one is alcohol, you know. Self-medicating is it's rife within the rural industry. It's as simple as that. Both alcohol and drugs.

Now, what sort of drugs are ketamine?

Now, what sort of drugs are ketamine?

Cocaine.

Cocaine.

Wow.

Wow.

You know, people that work sitting behind the wheel of a tractor or a truck or whatever, and, you know, have to push hard, or they've been made to push hard or need to and keep themselves going in the shearing industry, unfortunately, you know, it's and I don't want to put everything in a bad light, but the realities are it's true. And not only that, just in farming communities, it's it's out there. It's everywhere. But that's Australia for you, unfortunately. Look, I'm not a teetotaller by any means, you know? And look, I have this relationship with alcohol. I mean, I love it and it loves me, and we don't get along, so I just reduce alcohol intake or just if I relapse to a point where I know it's not doing me any favours, I'll move away from it, you know? Putting myself first is something that's important to me, and putting my family first. And sport is something that I need as part of my life. So I make sure that I fit either running or swimming or some form of exercise into my life. So it's a stable part of what I do. It's who I am. I used to, years ago, feel like I was being judged if I went for a run, for example, by my neighbors or, you know, other people, I'd run into people on a main road in the middle of nowhere and they'd say, oh, haven't you done enough work today? You know? And you were constantly criticized for it because you had to be seen to be out working, uh, even though it probably didn't do you any good in some cases. In my case, I needed to run. So, you know, it's just something that has to play a role in my life, and I'm thankful for it. I suppose the other thing is be present. Make sure you take the time for yourself and understanding what's around you. I talk about going down a driveway all your life and there's a line of trees. Both sides now are planted when you were young, but 30 years down the track. They're tall, but you don't see the growth in the trees. So, you know, it's important to, you know, stop. Listen. Take time for yourself. These are some of the things that are in my toolbox. I keep referring back to um, and then of course, the other component to all that is, if you find yourself in a pretty ordinary head space, you know, having the courage and the capacity to just go and debrief or have a chat with someone, whether it be your friend, your GP, someone that's working in peer support, for example, you know, it's all very important. So I'm living comfortably now in my own head, thankfully.

You know, people that work sitting behind the wheel of a tractor or a truck or whatever, and, you know, have to push hard, or they've been made to push hard or need to and keep themselves going in the shearing industry, unfortunately, you know, it's and I don't want to put everything in a bad light, but the realities are it's true. And not only that, just in farming communities, it's it's out there. It's everywhere. But that's Australia for you, unfortunately. Look, I'm not a teetotaller by any means, you know? And look, I have this relationship with alcohol. I mean, I love it and it loves me, and we don't get along, so I just reduce alcohol intake or just if I relapse to a point where I know it's not doing me any favours, I'll move away from it, you know? Putting myself first is something that's important to me, and putting my family first. And sport is something that I need as part of my life. So I make sure that I fit either running or swimming or some form of exercise into my life. So it's a stable part of what I do. It's who I am. I used to, years ago, feel like I was being judged if I went for a run, for example, by my neighbors or, you know, other people, I'd run into people on a main road in the middle of nowhere and they'd say, oh, haven't you done enough work today? You know? And you were constantly criticized for it because you had to be seen to be out working, uh, even though it probably didn't do you any good in some cases. In my case, I needed to run. So, you know, it's just something that has to play a role in my life, and I'm thankful for it. I suppose the other thing is be present. Make sure you take the time for yourself and understanding what's around you. I talk about going down a driveway all your life and there's a line of trees. Both sides now are planted when you were young, but 30 years down the track. They're tall, but you don't see the growth in the trees. So, you know, it's important to, you know, stop. Listen. Take time for yourself. These are some of the things that are in my toolbox. I keep referring back to um, and then of course, the other component to all that is, if you find yourself in a pretty ordinary head space, you know, having the courage and the capacity to just go and debrief or have a chat with someone, whether it be your friend, your GP, someone that's working in peer support, for example, you know, it's all very important. So I'm living comfortably now in my own head, thankfully.

That's wonderful. I would have thought that it would be hard to get those drugs like cocaine and other kind of methamphetamines into regional areas, but it seems from what you're saying that it's not at all hard for that to occur.

That's wonderful. I would have thought that it would be hard to get those drugs like cocaine and other kind of methamphetamines into regional areas, but it seems from what you're saying that it's not at all hard for that to occur.

No, no it's not. But most country towns go through these issues and problems. There's always someone within the community that can supply or, you know, that's, um, it's just not unusual. And unfortunately, it's just sifted into communities and I don't want to put a bad a terrible spin on country communities because it's far from that. But you certainly have those issues. And there's also there's also an issue, you know, people sort of look at themselves now in a way that they want to present themselves in a way that they're not. How do I put this? Um, I want to be fit and healthy alcohol, probably if you're drinking heavily, that probably doesn't allow you to be in that space. So they move to a different drug, which, you know, gives them a hit or whatever. And, you know, they're enjoying themselves, but they're not putting any weight and control their environment in that sense of the word. But it is an issue, there is no doubt about that.

No, no it's not. But most country towns go through these issues and problems. There's always someone within the community that can supply or, you know, that's, um, it's just not unusual. And unfortunately, it's just sifted into communities and I don't want to put a bad a terrible spin on country communities because it's far from that. But you certainly have those issues. And there's also there's also an issue, you know, people sort of look at themselves now in a way that they want to present themselves in a way that they're not. How do I put this? Um, I want to be fit and healthy alcohol, probably if you're drinking heavily, that probably doesn't allow you to be in that space. So they move to a different drug, which, you know, gives them a hit or whatever. And, you know, they're enjoying themselves, but they're not putting any weight and control their environment in that sense of the word. But it is an issue, there is no doubt about that.

And talk to us a bit about drought, because that's obviously a big thing in any kind of farming community. How did that affect you?

And talk to us a bit about drought, because that's obviously a big thing in any kind of farming community. How did that affect you?

Well, droughts are a slow burn. You know, if anyone said to you that, you know, if you're going to purchase a sheep or a cattle station or a farm, but you're going to go through ten years of drought, you'd run in the opposite direction. You know, you'd have no bar of it. But, you know, they creep up on you slowly, and before you know it, you're in an environment where there's no feed on the ground you're spending a lot of money on either on feed hay for your stock. It really dips into the heartstrings. You know, you're probably forced to kill animals that you don't want to, unfortunately, you know, to be humane to those animals because they ended up in a pretty ordinary state, some of them. But in most cases, people are fantastic. When they come into a drought, they move them into a different, you know, greener pastures and they take them off the property. So but you are compromised because a drought will compromise your income probably for 3 or 4 years. So if you take a decent hit. So, for example, in the Broken Hill area up until 2020, when it started raining, they went through a drought of four years. It was just ruthless. I mean, there was basically no stock left in the area and there was no native animals left that disappeared. Wow. And that's the other thing with the drought. I mean, they can last 12, 18 months or it can go for four years. So even the best managers owners end up being compromised because they wouldn't expect, you know, those conditions to last so long becomes a real battle to come out of it. It can be a massive struggle. Yeah.

Well, droughts are a slow burn. You know, if anyone said to you that, you know, if you're going to purchase a sheep or a cattle station or a farm, but you're going to go through ten years of drought, you'd run in the opposite direction. You know, you'd have no bar of it. But, you know, they creep up on you slowly, and before you know it, you're in an environment where there's no feed on the ground you're spending a lot of money on either on feed hay for your stock. It really dips into the heartstrings. You know, you're probably forced to kill animals that you don't want to, unfortunately, you know, to be humane to those animals because they ended up in a pretty ordinary state, some of them. But in most cases, people are fantastic. When they come into a drought, they move them into a different, you know, greener pastures and they take them off the property. So but you are compromised because a drought will compromise your income probably for 3 or 4 years. So if you take a decent hit. So, for example, in the Broken Hill area up until 2020, when it started raining, they went through a drought of four years. It was just ruthless. I mean, there was basically no stock left in the area and there was no native animals left that disappeared. Wow. And that's the other thing with the drought. I mean, they can last 12, 18 months or it can go for four years. So even the best managers owners end up being compromised because they wouldn't expect, you know, those conditions to last so long becomes a real battle to come out of it. It can be a massive struggle. Yeah.

There's a lot of talk about big business like your coals and your Woolworths having a real monopoly on the regional areas and the farmers not getting much money back, you know, when they're selling to those big names. What is your thoughts on that? And how have you found dealing with the big players in the in the city?

There's a lot of talk about big business like your coals and your Woolworths having a real monopoly on the regional areas and the farmers not getting much money back, you know, when they're selling to those big names. What is your thoughts on that? And how have you found dealing with the big players in the in the city?

Yeah, it's an interesting question. I mean, I think we all hope that we get paid more money for our product, you know, and we need to I mean, the goalposts have changed somewhat. I thought we'd found a level in our lamb market, say, for example, where, you know, on average we'll you'd probably get $5, $56 a kilo. But last year was a terrible year for selling his stock. So, you know, sheep was selling for $5 a head. I mean, ridiculous, I mean, that sort of the money that was getting paid, you know, back in the 70s. I mean, you.

Yeah, it's an interesting question. I mean, I think we all hope that we get paid more money for our product, you know, and we need to I mean, the goalposts have changed somewhat. I thought we'd found a level in our lamb market, say, for example, where, you know, on average we'll you'd probably get $5, $56 a kilo. But last year was a terrible year for selling his stock. So, you know, sheep was selling for $5 a head. I mean, ridiculous, I mean, that sort of the money that was getting paid, you know, back in the 70s. I mean, you.

Get a you like thinking about it realistically, you get a coffee for that amount of money and you're selling a sheep for that amount of money. It's ridiculous.

Get a you like thinking about it realistically, you get a coffee for that amount of money and you're selling a sheep for that amount of money. It's ridiculous.

Or don't have the capacity to sell them. So then you're stuck with them. They're left on your place. And then what do you do? There is no doubt Coles and Woolies have a monopoly on the market, and they dictate terms on price gouging. So for example. And so for example, I got a a grid the other day of a processor. And normally you get a standardised weight with a price associated next to it. There was no price next to it because they didn't want to disclose what they wanted to pay for the animal. So there's possibly an oversupply in the market, which I think is ridiculous because we all need to know where we stand, whether you're making a lot of money or whether you're making not much at all, that helps alleviate our decision making on farm, because we know exactly what we can do with our animals. But when you put something out that with nothing on it, it just seems ridiculous. Look, I like you, Sarah. Probably go to the shops and, you know, if I'm shopping for five, it would cost us 350 $400 at the supermarket. I mean, it's just ridiculous. So, you know, more players in the market, the better, if you ask me.

Or don't have the capacity to sell them. So then you're stuck with them. They're left on your place. And then what do you do? There is no doubt Coles and Woolies have a monopoly on the market, and they dictate terms on price gouging. So for example. And so for example, I got a a grid the other day of a processor. And normally you get a standardised weight with a price associated next to it. There was no price next to it because they didn't want to disclose what they wanted to pay for the animal. So there's possibly an oversupply in the market, which I think is ridiculous because we all need to know where we stand, whether you're making a lot of money or whether you're making not much at all, that helps alleviate our decision making on farm, because we know exactly what we can do with our animals. But when you put something out that with nothing on it, it just seems ridiculous. Look, I like you, Sarah. Probably go to the shops and, you know, if I'm shopping for five, it would cost us 350 $400 at the supermarket. I mean, it's just ridiculous. So, you know, more players in the market, the better, if you ask me.

Many years ago, there was a big exposé about livestock and the way that livestock were being treated, especially when they were being shipped offshore. What are your thoughts about that? And what are farmers role in making sure that their livestock are treated humanely?

Many years ago, there was a big exposé about livestock and the way that livestock were being treated, especially when they were being shipped offshore. What are your thoughts about that? And what are farmers role in making sure that their livestock are treated humanely?

Look, you know, I'm a big believer I think live export should exist. Places like Western Australia and up in Northern Territory and you know that export stock to the north or that's their market. I mean, if you take that away from them, they're basically going to be an isolated community where their stock won't be worth much at all. But what farmers do very well is produce an animal that nine times out of ten is in fantastic condition, and we're so much better at it now than what we were 15, 20 years ago. And there's been a lot of pressure put on farmers to do that. But at the same time, you know, in a humane sense it's been a good thing. But once they're on the ship sent out of our hands and we just hope the regulators within the industry do the right thing by those animals and get them to where they need to go safely. I note that there was a ship turned around not long ago, because they were spending too much time out in the ocean. They come back to Australia. I can't remember what ship. But you know, it's a classic case of looking after the animals. So I'm all for creating markets in this country, both stock and domestically. And most producers are very good at what they do and need to be trusted by the community.

Look, you know, I'm a big believer I think live export should exist. Places like Western Australia and up in Northern Territory and you know that export stock to the north or that's their market. I mean, if you take that away from them, they're basically going to be an isolated community where their stock won't be worth much at all. But what farmers do very well is produce an animal that nine times out of ten is in fantastic condition, and we're so much better at it now than what we were 15, 20 years ago. And there's been a lot of pressure put on farmers to do that. But at the same time, you know, in a humane sense it's been a good thing. But once they're on the ship sent out of our hands and we just hope the regulators within the industry do the right thing by those animals and get them to where they need to go safely. I note that there was a ship turned around not long ago, because they were spending too much time out in the ocean. They come back to Australia. I can't remember what ship. But you know, it's a classic case of looking after the animals. So I'm all for creating markets in this country, both stock and domestically. And most producers are very good at what they do and need to be trusted by the community.

When you think about everything that you've learnt as a lifeline ambassador, for anyone that's listening, that might be going through a tough time if they're a farmer or just generally, what is the best advice that you could give them?

When you think about everything that you've learnt as a lifeline ambassador, for anyone that's listening, that might be going through a tough time if they're a farmer or just generally, what is the best advice that you could give them?

Well, self-diagnosis is is really difficult. So my best advice is to find the courage to take the first step. Don't overthink things too much. You know, if you're going through a tough time. Find the courage within yourself to put your hand up and ask for help. That's the best possible advice I could put out there. It worked for me. It works for many people. I've been an ambassador for lifeline and working with We've Got Your Back program, which is a collaboration between lifeline and the Royal Flying Doctor Service. We work with a lot of people in the rural industry, and, you know, it's a pleasure to be able to work in the peer support space with people that ring you up and want advice or, you know, want to be helped into a safe place. And, um, uh, it wasn't until I was, uh, bestowed the honour of being an ambassador for lifeline. I realised that there was a hell of a lot of pain out there. And obviously that is exacerbated by the dry conditions. And when they come about loss of income and things like that. In a lot of cases, most people are living a normal life, feel as if they're bombproof, and in most cases they are until they're compromised and they don't know when that's going to happen. You may live a life and go through life bomb free, but in some cases you won't. And you'll just need a, you know, a leg up. And, um, you know, we're sort of here to help them if they need it. And we can be a conduit to other services in and around Broken Hill or wherever it may be. Take that first step is so important.

Well, self-diagnosis is is really difficult. So my best advice is to find the courage to take the first step. Don't overthink things too much. You know, if you're going through a tough time. Find the courage within yourself to put your hand up and ask for help. That's the best possible advice I could put out there. It worked for me. It works for many people. I've been an ambassador for lifeline and working with We've Got Your Back program, which is a collaboration between lifeline and the Royal Flying Doctor Service. We work with a lot of people in the rural industry, and, you know, it's a pleasure to be able to work in the peer support space with people that ring you up and want advice or, you know, want to be helped into a safe place. And, um, uh, it wasn't until I was, uh, bestowed the honour of being an ambassador for lifeline. I realised that there was a hell of a lot of pain out there. And obviously that is exacerbated by the dry conditions. And when they come about loss of income and things like that. In a lot of cases, most people are living a normal life, feel as if they're bombproof, and in most cases they are until they're compromised and they don't know when that's going to happen. You may live a life and go through life bomb free, but in some cases you won't. And you'll just need a, you know, a leg up. And, um, you know, we're sort of here to help them if they need it. And we can be a conduit to other services in and around Broken Hill or wherever it may be. Take that first step is so important.

When you reflect on regional Australia growing up on, you know, the beautiful farm and where you're at at the moment, what are you most grateful for?

When you reflect on regional Australia growing up on, you know, the beautiful farm and where you're at at the moment, what are you most grateful for?

Yeah. That's a that's a cracking question, Sarah. I'm grateful for my health. Because without feeling healthy, you don't recognize what's around you. It's as simple as that. You know, we've all heard about brain fog and how that affects you from day to day. If you've got that, you don't recognize all the good stuff that's around you. So, you know, health is the most important and you find some real clarity in your life. And so what you've forgotten about in a way, say, for example, you know, my memories of being on the land and I still am on the land, but, you know, looking back, looking at all the fond memories as opposed to all the hardships, I know they exist, but, um, you can see life with some real deep clarity in a good way.

Yeah. That's a that's a cracking question, Sarah. I'm grateful for my health. Because without feeling healthy, you don't recognize what's around you. It's as simple as that. You know, we've all heard about brain fog and how that affects you from day to day. If you've got that, you don't recognize all the good stuff that's around you. So, you know, health is the most important and you find some real clarity in your life. And so what you've forgotten about in a way, say, for example, you know, my memories of being on the land and I still am on the land, but, you know, looking back, looking at all the fond memories as opposed to all the hardships, I know they exist, but, um, you can see life with some real deep clarity in a good way.

Brendan, thank you for all the work that you do on the farm, but also for mental health. And thank you for the conversation today. Oh, it's.

Brendan, thank you for all the work that you do on the farm, but also for mental health. And thank you for the conversation today. Oh, it's.

An absolute pleasure, Sarah. And yeah, look after yourself, mate.

An absolute pleasure, Sarah. And yeah, look after yourself, mate.

Thank you. Thanks to Brendan for coming on. Stories of us. And just a reminder that if anything in this podcast has brought up difficult feelings, please reach out to someone you trust for support. Alternatively, you can call lifeline anytime at 13 1114 for assistance. If you've enjoyed hearing from Brendan today and you would like to hear about another story of resilience, check out our episode with former NRL player Alex McKinnon, who faced a life changing injury on the field. You can find a link to Alex's inspiring story in today's show. Notes.

Thank you. Thanks to Brendan for coming on. Stories of us. And just a reminder that if anything in this podcast has brought up difficult feelings, please reach out to someone you trust for support. Alternatively, you can call lifeline anytime at 13 1114 for assistance. If you've enjoyed hearing from Brendan today and you would like to hear about another story of resilience, check out our episode with former NRL player Alex McKinnon, who faced a life changing injury on the field. You can find a link to Alex's inspiring story in today's show. Notes.