Pushkin. Hey, y'all, welcome back to the show. I've been interviewing so many different people who've clawed their way into industries that can seem impossible for someone like them to break into. When I met Jisca Matthews, it was clear taking up space was something she thrived on. You can hear it in the way she talks about being a young black woman in a field filled with fifty five year old white men. What does Jessica do well? She's actually an inventor, and her sophomore year at Harvard, when she was just nineteen years old, Jessica invented an energy generating soccer ball called the Socket. Her invention got her on the radar of folks like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama and helped her launch a company called Uncharted Power, which is trying to reimagine and reinvent the way a city's infrastructure can store power. I mean, super ambitious stuff. I'm eager for you all to hear how Jessica thinks about her life and her career, which she says is the difference between happiness and success. This is started from the bottom, hard earned success stories from people like us. If you can simply explain what the socket is.

Pushkin. Hey, y'all, welcome back to the show. I've been interviewing so many different people who've clawed their way into industries that can seem impossible for someone like them to break into. When I met Jisca Matthews, it was clear taking up space was something she thrived on. You can hear it in the way she talks about being a young black woman in a field filled with fifty five year old white men. What does Jessica do well? She's actually an inventor, and her sophomore year at Harvard, when she was just nineteen years old, Jessica invented an energy generating soccer ball called the Socket. Her invention got her on the radar of folks like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama and helped her launch a company called Uncharted Power, which is trying to reimagine and reinvent the way a city's infrastructure can store power. I mean, super ambitious stuff. I'm eager for you all to hear how Jessica thinks about her life and her career, which she says is the difference between happiness and success. This is started from the bottom, hard earned success stories from people like us. If you can simply explain what the socket is.

Yeah, it's a soccer ball that generates energy when it rolls. When you pass it, it generates energy, stores the power inside the ball. You don't have to be an engineer to use it. All you have to do is know how to play soccer.

Yeah, it's a soccer ball that generates energy when it rolls. When you pass it, it generates energy, stores the power inside the ball. You don't have to be an engineer to use it. All you have to do is know how to play soccer.

So it doesn't just like glow or something though, right, there's.

So it doesn't just like glow or something though, right, there's.

Like a no, you would actually plug things into it?

Like a no, you would actually plug things into it?

Yeah, amazing.

Yeah, amazing.

And again it was small.

And again it was small.

It was it could never power our house or even a room. You know, we're talking about small lights. The goal was never to create something that generated a whole bunch of energy. The idea was less about the product that was created and more about the idea that was created and the magic behind it, and the ability to get people to feel like you were using science to make magic real and to have them attribute that to me. All of that happened, you know, from nineteen to twenty four. It got me on stages with Bill Clinton where he said things like, if ever there was an innovator, she's it.

It was it could never power our house or even a room. You know, we're talking about small lights. The goal was never to create something that generated a whole bunch of energy. The idea was less about the product that was created and more about the idea that was created and the magic behind it, and the ability to get people to feel like you were using science to make magic real and to have them attribute that to me. All of that happened, you know, from nineteen to twenty four. It got me on stages with Bill Clinton where he said things like, if ever there was an innovator, she's it.

You know.

You know.

It got me in rooms with just brilliant people, rooms that normally people like me, people who look like me, would never be in.

It got me in rooms with just brilliant people, rooms that normally people like me, people who look like me, would never be in.

How do you invent something This is like literally the dumbest question about how do you invent something?

How do you invent something This is like literally the dumbest question about how do you invent something?

How do you invent something?

How do you invent something?

Okay?

Okay?

To me, the first step of innovation is the articulation of the problem. So what do I mean by that? Do not start saying you want to invent something and then start thinking about the thing you want to invent. Start thinking about the problem you want to solve, and detail it.

To me, the first step of innovation is the articulation of the problem. So what do I mean by that? Do not start saying you want to invent something and then start thinking about the thing you want to invent. Start thinking about the problem you want to solve, and detail it.

Right, So, what's the problem?

Right, So, what's the problem?

Okay, Now let's do some root cause analysis, Like, let's really try for what's the problem?

Okay, Now let's do some root cause analysis, Like, let's really try for what's the problem?

Why?

Why?

Why is that a problem? Why is this an issue? Where did this come from? Once you have your problem, articularly, once you're like, okay, this is the problem I want to solve, then you start saying, Okay, what are some ways to solve it? You can, you can do a brainstorm and just start thinking about things. But what I actually recommend is, once you have the problem articulated, step away and go and live your life.

Why is that a problem? Why is this an issue? Where did this come from? Once you have your problem, articularly, once you're like, okay, this is the problem I want to solve, then you start saying, Okay, what are some ways to solve it? You can, you can do a brainstorm and just start thinking about things. But what I actually recommend is, once you have the problem articulated, step away and go and live your life.

Why.

Why.

The definition of science is the study of life. So if you're living, and the more that you live, the more that I believe you're a scientist. And so if you're trying to come up with something, most likely you're going to pull the answer from your life if you were if you live a sheltered life, you're gonna come up with a sheltered fucking answer. Your invention is gonna be some sheltered as shit. But if you want to come up with something that's broad, if you want to be able to say, you know what, there's this problem here with like inspiration and energy, and the answer is going to be a soccer ball that can generate energy that's going to come from going out and seeing your cousins play soccer.

The definition of science is the study of life. So if you're living, and the more that you live, the more that I believe you're a scientist. And so if you're trying to come up with something, most likely you're going to pull the answer from your life if you were if you live a sheltered life, you're gonna come up with a sheltered fucking answer. Your invention is gonna be some sheltered as shit. But if you want to come up with something that's broad, if you want to be able to say, you know what, there's this problem here with like inspiration and energy, and the answer is going to be a soccer ball that can generate energy that's going to come from going out and seeing your cousins play soccer.

And it's going to hit you.

And it's going to hit you.

That's gonna come from walking down the street and seeing a woman push their kid and be like, oh wait a minute, what about this? Like, you have to observe and experience as much as possible in your life because that's gonna be the bank that you pull your idea from. So you articulate your problem so it's there, and then you go and live your life and you have a notebook and you just jop down ideas as they come to you, versus a forced brainstorm. I suggest go and put yourselves in put yourself in situations that will inspire you, that will engage you, and that will get you thinking about different things. Now you got your ideas, you have to prototype it, and now you're gonna sit here and be like, I can't make this dumb, this thing down to the most embarrassing, ridiculous shit that you can make. So I'll give you an example. The first prototype of the socket. I went to target and I got a clear plastic hamster ball. I went to home depot and I got a shape the charge flash light. I put the shape the charge flashlight inside of the hamster ball. I rolled it back and forth. For the concept of a ball that could generate energy with motion. That was the first prototype. The goal of your prototype is to find the simplest thing that you can create that you can then get feedback on to make sure your shit makes sense. The answer becomes, yes, you make a prototype that's just a little bit better, a little bit better, a little bit better. Before you know it, I'm in Shenzen, China, like you know, telling everyone I'm Serena Williams that they make my fucking soccer balls on time like that that was a true story.

That's gonna come from walking down the street and seeing a woman push their kid and be like, oh wait a minute, what about this? Like, you have to observe and experience as much as possible in your life because that's gonna be the bank that you pull your idea from. So you articulate your problem so it's there, and then you go and live your life and you have a notebook and you just jop down ideas as they come to you, versus a forced brainstorm. I suggest go and put yourselves in put yourself in situations that will inspire you, that will engage you, and that will get you thinking about different things. Now you got your ideas, you have to prototype it, and now you're gonna sit here and be like, I can't make this dumb, this thing down to the most embarrassing, ridiculous shit that you can make. So I'll give you an example. The first prototype of the socket. I went to target and I got a clear plastic hamster ball. I went to home depot and I got a shape the charge flash light. I put the shape the charge flashlight inside of the hamster ball. I rolled it back and forth. For the concept of a ball that could generate energy with motion. That was the first prototype. The goal of your prototype is to find the simplest thing that you can create that you can then get feedback on to make sure your shit makes sense. The answer becomes, yes, you make a prototype that's just a little bit better, a little bit better, a little bit better. Before you know it, I'm in Shenzen, China, like you know, telling everyone I'm Serena Williams that they make my fucking soccer balls on time like that that was a true story.

We don't have enough time to go for that, So there's that, Like what's going on there now?

We don't have enough time to go for that, So there's that, Like what's going on there now?

To go from the initial prototype looks like feels like acts like perhaps, okay, you might need a little bit of money. You go from the initial prototype to them.

To go from the initial prototype looks like feels like acts like perhaps, okay, you might need a little bit of money. You go from the initial prototype to them.

Yeah, the art of the side hustle should not be underestimated, you know in the beginning. Again, there's grants you can do a friends and family, but you know, if you're oftentimes, if you're a minority, friends and family is like here's a sandwich.

Yeah, the art of the side hustle should not be underestimated, you know in the beginning. Again, there's grants you can do a friends and family, but you know, if you're oftentimes, if you're a minority, friends and family is like here's a sandwich.

I mean, here's a true in kind investment.

I mean, here's a true in kind investment.

There are some grants, but they do so oftentimes take time to get and you're probably gonna be impatient, and you should be. So I would say, like when when a charity play got started, I was still working at another company. You can't like you you know, you have to make sure you separate things.

There are some grants, but they do so oftentimes take time to get and you're probably gonna be impatient, and you should be. So I would say, like when when a charity play got started, I was still working at another company. You can't like you you know, you have to make sure you separate things.

Did that risk? Did that risk them owning your IP?

Did that risk? Did that risk them owning your IP?

As long as you do not use any of the company's equipment to do it, or any of their ideas or anything from there, And then you can prove that they actually knew because before I went to go and work for that company, they knew that I had invented this thing in college. So then you're you're fine, but you definitely don't want to sit there and use the company's resources. No, don't do that. That's just that's just bad karma. But I know a lot of people who you know, they're lawyers, their accountants, and then they spend two hours on the weekend working on a makeup company like it's normally something totally different.

As long as you do not use any of the company's equipment to do it, or any of their ideas or anything from there, And then you can prove that they actually knew because before I went to go and work for that company, they knew that I had invented this thing in college. So then you're you're fine, but you definitely don't want to sit there and use the company's resources. No, don't do that. That's just that's just bad karma. But I know a lot of people who you know, they're lawyers, their accountants, and then they spend two hours on the weekend working on a makeup company like it's normally something totally different.

It's amazing. I'm inspired. I'm going to go invent something today. I'm gonna be working on a prototype in the kitchen tonight. Yeah.

It's amazing. I'm inspired. I'm going to go invent something today. I'm gonna be working on a prototype in the kitchen tonight. Yeah.

Yeah, listen, it should look wild. You should be like this, sh'll look crazy.

Yeah, listen, it should look wild. You should be like this, sh'll look crazy.

That's the most freeing thing I've ever heard, that your prototype you make a hamster wheel and a shake flash?

That's the most freeing thing I've ever heard, that your prototype you make a hamster wheel and a shake flash?

Yeah? Yeah.

Yeah? Yeah.

Are there any other steps in the invention process we left out just to cover our bases here.

Are there any other steps in the invention process we left out just to cover our bases here.

Once you have.

Once you have.

A prototype that's starting to look a little bit more presentable, an invention doesn't matter if you're the only one who knows about it. So a really, really key part is open up. I know people are afraid. People are gonna say, well, what if someone steals my idea. I'm gonna say this straight up. It is so hard to do most things. It is so hard to do most things. In order for someone to steal your idea, the number of things they'd have to have on you, right, and so I think that oftentimes when you will invent something, they have an idea, they keep it to themselves. But by doing that, you're not kind of activating that feedback loop that's going to do two things. Give you a better understanding of how to improve that invention, but also give you the confidence to know that this is something that makes sense to more people than just you. The more you start to tell it to people and tell people, you're also going to get two things that are going to happen. People are going to either want to give you some money, or give you some time, or give you an opportunity. And one of those three things are going to be a catalyst to getting you from making something in the kitchen to you know, being in a room where someone says, Yo, we know about you.

A prototype that's starting to look a little bit more presentable, an invention doesn't matter if you're the only one who knows about it. So a really, really key part is open up. I know people are afraid. People are gonna say, well, what if someone steals my idea. I'm gonna say this straight up. It is so hard to do most things. It is so hard to do most things. In order for someone to steal your idea, the number of things they'd have to have on you, right, and so I think that oftentimes when you will invent something, they have an idea, they keep it to themselves. But by doing that, you're not kind of activating that feedback loop that's going to do two things. Give you a better understanding of how to improve that invention, but also give you the confidence to know that this is something that makes sense to more people than just you. The more you start to tell it to people and tell people, you're also going to get two things that are going to happen. People are going to either want to give you some money, or give you some time, or give you an opportunity. And one of those three things are going to be a catalyst to getting you from making something in the kitchen to you know, being in a room where someone says, Yo, we know about you.

You need to become a business that we can do business with you.

You need to become a business that we can do business with you.

It's amazing. How do you get to a point at age nineteen where you invent this thing that opens up all these doors for you? How does that happen?

It's amazing. How do you get to a point at age nineteen where you invent this thing that opens up all these doors for you? How does that happen?

I remember.

I remember.

Very early on telling myself it's not about strategies for success, it's about strategies for happiness, and that as soon as I understand the role that success plays in my happiness, but it's not the only thing that impacts my happiness. You know, I'll have a true north that that I can count on, and that makes sense, And so that means I had to really spend some time, you know, in my teenage years even thinking about, well, what actually makes me happy?

Very early on telling myself it's not about strategies for success, it's about strategies for happiness, and that as soon as I understand the role that success plays in my happiness, but it's not the only thing that impacts my happiness. You know, I'll have a true north that that I can count on, and that makes sense, And so that means I had to really spend some time, you know, in my teenage years even thinking about, well, what actually makes me happy?

And it wasn't until college.

And it wasn't until college.

Though, where where I realized that my life was just it was everything I was going to make it and everything I wasn't going to make it that I think I spent the real time doing that reflection and that, yeah, that ended up being a little of my compass. So I would actually sit down as I would push in anything that I'm doing, any job I have any kind of bigger goal, right, So any work that I have rather not necessarily a job, but any work that I have. Every couple of weeks, I'll ask myself, am I happy? And there's really only two answers that are allowed. Yes, which is great or no. But this is temporary, right, So I might be like, no, I'm not happy because I'm I'm stressed about how many hours I'm working. It's like, okay, well, is the result of those hours will that make you happy? Yes, okay, okay, then listen, push through. You can fight through for that. Yeah, And so I think having that as my true north, and then also recognizing like that I'm somewhat of.

Though, where where I realized that my life was just it was everything I was going to make it and everything I wasn't going to make it that I think I spent the real time doing that reflection and that, yeah, that ended up being a little of my compass. So I would actually sit down as I would push in anything that I'm doing, any job I have any kind of bigger goal, right, So any work that I have rather not necessarily a job, but any work that I have. Every couple of weeks, I'll ask myself, am I happy? And there's really only two answers that are allowed. Yes, which is great or no. But this is temporary, right, So I might be like, no, I'm not happy because I'm I'm stressed about how many hours I'm working. It's like, okay, well, is the result of those hours will that make you happy? Yes, okay, okay, then listen, push through. You can fight through for that. Yeah, And so I think having that as my true north, and then also recognizing like that I'm somewhat of.

Like a.

Like a.

I'm a big believer that luck is an acronym that it stands for laboring under correct knowledge.

I'm a big believer that luck is an acronym that it stands for laboring under correct knowledge.

And so I think coupled with.

And so I think coupled with.

That, at a relatively early early age, at the age of nineteen, I had something lucky happened to me.

That, at a relatively early early age, at the age of nineteen, I had something lucky happened to me.

Let's go back to your initial epiphany about happiness versus success. What were the circumstances that made that thought occur to you?

Let's go back to your initial epiphany about happiness versus success. What were the circumstances that made that thought occur to you?

You know, again be Nigerian and having so much family in Nigeria, knowing where were comfortable where they weren't, but also knowing down the street how many people were living with so little. You know, I always tell my my husband he was born in Mississippi. I'm like, you want to know how Nigerians think about poverty in the United States? Only in America can you be overweight? And for do you understand? Like no, do you understand like that, like the fact that government cheese exists, cheesecat great food?

You know, again be Nigerian and having so much family in Nigeria, knowing where were comfortable where they weren't, but also knowing down the street how many people were living with so little. You know, I always tell my my husband he was born in Mississippi. I'm like, you want to know how Nigerians think about poverty in the United States? Only in America can you be overweight? And for do you understand? Like no, do you understand like that, like the fact that government cheese exists, cheesecat great food?

We met it? Like no?

We met it? Like no?

Like what so so like.

Like what so so like.

I'm sitting here thinking about like yo, like I'm one hundred Nigerian.

I'm sitting here thinking about like yo, like I'm one hundred Nigerian.

I know I'm saying some while nored percent. I'm not trying to like all I'm trying to say.

I know I'm saying some while nored percent. I'm not trying to like all I'm trying to say.

I'm just saying like I'm over here like sitting down thinking like God, it could have been the easiest thing for me to be born in that fucking hut over there, like.

I'm just saying like I'm over here like sitting down thinking like God, it could have been the easiest thing for me to be born in that fucking hut over there, like.

That would have been the easiest. Like it's not like it would have been like I can't have imagined. I can imagine it.

That would have been the easiest. Like it's not like it would have been like I can't have imagined. I can imagine it.

This is where I'm from, this is my village, this is where my dad grew up. My dad grew up so poor that he only started eating corn five years ago because that's all they could afford growing up.

This is where I'm from, this is my village, this is where my dad grew up. My dad grew up so poor that he only started eating corn five years ago because that's all they could afford growing up.

And he was like, I cannot eat anymore corn, Like it could have easily been that. Why why not?

And he was like, I cannot eat anymore corn, Like it could have easily been that. Why why not?

And so I think when you have that realization of gratitude and that realization of privilege, even despite the systemic issues working against you, again, like I have no problem saying I have privilege just because of the luck luck can be privileged. That's something sometimes I think that white people struggle with luck can be privileged. Hard work can be privileged. Yes, my dad had to work like hell to get out. My mom had to work like hell, her dad was a teacher to get out. But still I'm the next door neighbor did it, and like I could have been born to them. And so I think that with that, I remember immediately saying, Okay, whenever I pray, I'm never going to ask for anything. I'm just gonna say thank you, because like I had this weird thought in my mind that all of this stuff that God gave me could be taken away unless I give him a really strong ROI.

And so I think when you have that realization of gratitude and that realization of privilege, even despite the systemic issues working against you, again, like I have no problem saying I have privilege just because of the luck luck can be privileged. That's something sometimes I think that white people struggle with luck can be privileged. Hard work can be privileged. Yes, my dad had to work like hell to get out. My mom had to work like hell, her dad was a teacher to get out. But still I'm the next door neighbor did it, and like I could have been born to them. And so I think that with that, I remember immediately saying, Okay, whenever I pray, I'm never going to ask for anything. I'm just gonna say thank you, because like I had this weird thought in my mind that all of this stuff that God gave me could be taken away unless I give him a really strong ROI.

There's a lot of things at the age of eight and nine.

There's a lot of things at the age of eight and nine.

So that's when I started to realize that this thing called life was more than just a push. You had to really think about your frame of mind whenever your last breath would be.

So that's when I started to realize that this thing called life was more than just a push. You had to really think about your frame of mind whenever your last breath would be.

And I remembered sitting.

And I remembered sitting.

In so you're eight, your eight, you're young, and you're thinking about your last breath on earth. This is These are not the thoughts of normal eight year olds.

In so you're eight, your eight, you're young, and you're thinking about your last breath on earth. This is These are not the thoughts of normal eight year olds.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, the fact that I'm having ROI like return on investment prayer sessions with God that I reckon that was probably the first weird thing. But then I'm actually eighteen years old when I start to realize, yo, like this is not just about an ROI thing, Like people are out here dying. People my own family are dying, and they're dying not with this like gratitude, hope feeling of you know that I have, like from the age of eight, they're dying kind of feeling like their world is the status quo. They can't do anything to change it, They have no influence. The only way to solve their problems is to pretend like they don't have them and let them kill them. Yeah, and so from there, that's when my kind of ethos in life got a little bit more dynamic. That's when I started to say, all right, well, I don't know when my last breath is going to be, so strategies for happiness, Vircius, strategies for success. But then at the same time, you know, I think I never lost this this kind of realization that part of what makes me really happen be is trying to solve really big fucking problems.

No, the fact that I'm having ROI like return on investment prayer sessions with God that I reckon that was probably the first weird thing. But then I'm actually eighteen years old when I start to realize, yo, like this is not just about an ROI thing, Like people are out here dying. People my own family are dying, and they're dying not with this like gratitude, hope feeling of you know that I have, like from the age of eight, they're dying kind of feeling like their world is the status quo. They can't do anything to change it, They have no influence. The only way to solve their problems is to pretend like they don't have them and let them kill them. Yeah, and so from there, that's when my kind of ethos in life got a little bit more dynamic. That's when I started to say, all right, well, I don't know when my last breath is going to be, so strategies for happiness, Vircius, strategies for success. But then at the same time, you know, I think I never lost this this kind of realization that part of what makes me really happen be is trying to solve really big fucking problems.

We'll be back with more from Jessica O Matthews.

We'll be back with more from Jessica O Matthews.

The problem that I found was that my cousins, who were trained engineers, chemists and you know, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, they had told themselves that there was no changing the status quo in terms of their world, and I wanted to create something that inspired them to realize that it was a much more accessible.

The problem that I found was that my cousins, who were trained engineers, chemists and you know, electrical engineers, mechanical engineers, they had told themselves that there was no changing the status quo in terms of their world, and I wanted to create something that inspired them to realize that it was a much more accessible.

Thing to change things. And so that was that was it.

Thing to change things. And so that was that was it.

And I have a degree in psychology and economics. Like I this invention came from a whole lot of Google, like a lot of googling.

And I have a degree in psychology and economics. Like I this invention came from a whole lot of Google, like a lot of googling.

You'd be surprised what you could google.

You'd be surprised what you could google.

I currently sit on the Department of Energy's Electricity Advisory Committee, federally appointed from the Secretary of Energy.

I currently sit on the Department of Energy's Electricity Advisory Committee, federally appointed from the Secretary of Energy.

Of the United States because of.

Of the United States because of.

A fucking soccer ball, like like like, let me be clear, because I googled my way to figuring out the soccer ball, and then I never stopped googling, And so now I mean what I do now in some ways couldn't be farther from a soccer ball. But it's the same, the same goal, the same point of how do we make sure that people realize that things could be better in their infrastructure of their world, and how do we create technologies that empower people to be part of that that solution.

A fucking soccer ball, like like like, let me be clear, because I googled my way to figuring out the soccer ball, and then I never stopped googling, And so now I mean what I do now in some ways couldn't be farther from a soccer ball. But it's the same, the same goal, the same point of how do we make sure that people realize that things could be better in their infrastructure of their world, and how do we create technologies that empower people to be part of that that solution.

It's the same thing.

It's the same thing.

So what was the status quo for your cousins who were engineers in Nigeria.

So what was the status quo for your cousins who were engineers in Nigeria.

In Nigeria, the craziest thing is just it doesn't matter if you're in the village or if you're in the bustling city of Legos. Energy, reliable energy, just you know, it was a massive issue, especially back then. Now, yes, you're everyone has generators regardless, but you're just losing power every day, several times a day, period, point blank. And like I even now, I would say you should expect to lose power most days. So that was kind of the setup, you know, that that impact, that shift was the day to day even a wedding right which I was actually really proud. I got married in Nigeria early this year and we didn't lose power once. And like, to be honest, sometimes I feel like half of this work that I've done was just.

In Nigeria, the craziest thing is just it doesn't matter if you're in the village or if you're in the bustling city of Legos. Energy, reliable energy, just you know, it was a massive issue, especially back then. Now, yes, you're everyone has generators regardless, but you're just losing power every day, several times a day, period, point blank. And like I even now, I would say you should expect to lose power most days. So that was kind of the setup, you know, that that impact, that shift was the day to day even a wedding right which I was actually really proud. I got married in Nigeria early this year and we didn't lose power once. And like, to be honest, sometimes I feel like half of this work that I've done was just.

To pull off, to pull off.

To pull off, to pull off.

The dynamics of stable energy during all these ceremonies, because again were I remember my aunt, you know, losing power during her wedding. I remember us bringing in the diesel generator. I remember the fuse making me feel like I was gonna faint. I remember my cousin saying, don't worry, You'll get used to it.

The dynamics of stable energy during all these ceremonies, because again were I remember my aunt, you know, losing power during her wedding. I remember us bringing in the diesel generator. I remember the fuse making me feel like I was gonna faint. I remember my cousin saying, don't worry, You'll get used to it.

Yeah, I was gonna say when you when when you're bringing you're talking about, you know, people having to work with kerosene lamps, and then you just mention it now bringing in like diesel generators. I mean, these are all like, these aren't benign things. I mean, like the fumes from a kerosene lamp, the fumes from a diesel generator have you know, can have lasting health consequences.

Yeah, I was gonna say when you when when you're bringing you're talking about, you know, people having to work with kerosene lamps, and then you just mention it now bringing in like diesel generators. I mean, these are all like, these aren't benign things. I mean, like the fumes from a kerosene lamp, the fumes from a diesel generator have you know, can have lasting health consequences.

You know who said that living with a kerosene lamp is like smoking two packs of cigarettes to day. So it's horrible for you, it's something that's horrible for the environment. It's killing every single person in that situation. But I think what I also knew at that young age, and this is what's kind of funny about what I do now compared to how I started. I remember when the socket was being formulated and where I was in this kind of class with other people also who had kind of spent some time in the developing world, and we're all kind of throwing in our thoughts, and I remember very specifically stating the thing is all of these problems are infrastructural. They masquerade a socio economic People think, oh, these countries are poor, like actually people are paying more for killawat hour in the form of kerosene oil. Then we're paying in the United States still even with the rise and costs and everything that's going on. But they don't have stable infrastructure to pay into. They don't have like an overarching system that they can trust to pay into. So everybody's like every man for himself or herself or whatever. And so that's you have to go and get the kerosine lamp and you do what you have to do. So there isn't there isn't a grid that you can count on. There isn't all of that. But it's not a socio economic issue. And so for me, though even though I knew it was an infrastructural issue, infrastructure is not me. I don't know shit about it. No one there looks like me. The average age of someone working in energy infrastructure in the United States fifty five. I think the average person is a fifty five year old, straight white man.

You know who said that living with a kerosene lamp is like smoking two packs of cigarettes to day. So it's horrible for you, it's something that's horrible for the environment. It's killing every single person in that situation. But I think what I also knew at that young age, and this is what's kind of funny about what I do now compared to how I started. I remember when the socket was being formulated and where I was in this kind of class with other people also who had kind of spent some time in the developing world, and we're all kind of throwing in our thoughts, and I remember very specifically stating the thing is all of these problems are infrastructural. They masquerade a socio economic People think, oh, these countries are poor, like actually people are paying more for killawat hour in the form of kerosene oil. Then we're paying in the United States still even with the rise and costs and everything that's going on. But they don't have stable infrastructure to pay into. They don't have like an overarching system that they can trust to pay into. So everybody's like every man for himself or herself or whatever. And so that's you have to go and get the kerosine lamp and you do what you have to do. So there isn't there isn't a grid that you can count on. There isn't all of that. But it's not a socio economic issue. And so for me, though even though I knew it was an infrastructural issue, infrastructure is not me. I don't know shit about it. No one there looks like me. The average age of someone working in energy infrastructure in the United States fifty five. I think the average person is a fifty five year old, straight white man.

That's what they said. Clearly.

That's what they said. Clearly.

I am not a fifty five year old straight white man. And so I literally told myself, I got to create something that can inspire the right people to solve this problem. My cousin's being one you know they're engineers, at least they're trained in this space. But this is scary, this is big. I don't get it. I don't let me just this is what I know I can do. The problem is that too many people feel like they can't change their surroundings. Let me invent something that will inspire them to realize that the world isn't just as it is, it can also be what they create. And that's that's the socket, you know, That's that's what got me in there. It's funny because it's I had this moment, this opportunity around maybe twenty maybe twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, where.

I am not a fifty five year old straight white man. And so I literally told myself, I got to create something that can inspire the right people to solve this problem. My cousin's being one you know they're engineers, at least they're trained in this space. But this is scary, this is big. I don't get it. I don't let me just this is what I know I can do. The problem is that too many people feel like they can't change their surroundings. Let me invent something that will inspire them to realize that the world isn't just as it is, it can also be what they create. And that's that's the socket, you know, That's that's what got me in there. It's funny because it's I had this moment, this opportunity around maybe twenty maybe twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, where.

I could I was kind of at a fork in the road and I.

I could I was kind of at a fork in the road and I.

Could have went down the path of trying to see if we could just produce a million soccer balls, regardless of whether or not that would actually solve any problem, right because my current, my first kind of articulation of the problem was we're not inspiring enough people to join this fight and changing our environment and changing infrastructure, So let's inspire them. But if I just put out a one million soccer balls, you now have to think about plastic and fumes and all these different things are go into making them, and I'm like, Okay, is this really the way to get to the utopia that we want into a world where there's more equitable infrastructure.

Could have went down the path of trying to see if we could just produce a million soccer balls, regardless of whether or not that would actually solve any problem, right because my current, my first kind of articulation of the problem was we're not inspiring enough people to join this fight and changing our environment and changing infrastructure, So let's inspire them. But if I just put out a one million soccer balls, you now have to think about plastic and fumes and all these different things are go into making them, and I'm like, Okay, is this really the way to get to the utopia that we want into a world where there's more equitable infrastructure.

It was part of the.

It was part of the.

Way, and so we still do Uplift programming where we actually just we have fewer balls, but we use them as an educational tool, and we partner with nonprofits and school school districts with the products. So I could have gone down that route, or I could pivot and say, with what I know right now about infrastructure, what is the best way to solve this problem? And so what ended up happening over several years really was just kind of me one getting closer and closer to getting the guts to actually make an infrastructure product and not just a product that inspired people to do things in infrastructure, and then in some ways inventing quite a few things, putting them out in small and small markets to see how people were to respond, taking that feedback, and then coming back with something else, and coming back with something.

Way, and so we still do Uplift programming where we actually just we have fewer balls, but we use them as an educational tool, and we partner with nonprofits and school school districts with the products. So I could have gone down that route, or I could pivot and say, with what I know right now about infrastructure, what is the best way to solve this problem? And so what ended up happening over several years really was just kind of me one getting closer and closer to getting the guts to actually make an infrastructure product and not just a product that inspired people to do things in infrastructure, and then in some ways inventing quite a few things, putting them out in small and small markets to see how people were to respond, taking that feedback, and then coming back with something else, and coming back with something.

Else, what else? So what else did you? What else did you invent?

Else, what else? So what else did you? What else did you invent?

We developed like pavers that you can put fiber optic and wire and energy cables in that don't require ripping up the ground every single time, developed tools again for the different technologies to be able to speak to each other. Because a big thing that goes on in infrastructure is that of all the technology doesn't speak the same language, then you have a lot of redundancies and things don't work.

We developed like pavers that you can put fiber optic and wire and energy cables in that don't require ripping up the ground every single time, developed tools again for the different technologies to be able to speak to each other. Because a big thing that goes on in infrastructure is that of all the technology doesn't speak the same language, then you have a lot of redundancies and things don't work.

So we got deep.

So we got deep.

Where's your understanding of all this coming from? Because again Google, Literally you if you Google, you got a degree from Harvard in psychology and economics and also an MBA only to Google and figure.

Where's your understanding of all this coming from? Because again Google, Literally you if you Google, you got a degree from Harvard in psychology and economics and also an MBA only to Google and figure.

Out how to do Yeah, I mean listen if you if you google first of all, if you're like intense, right, So, like I do throw myself in to the work because it's it's when it's your thing, man, it's like you.

Out how to do Yeah, I mean listen if you if you google first of all, if you're like intense, right, So, like I do throw myself in to the work because it's it's when it's your thing, man, it's like you.

It becomes something where it's like, hey, why not?

It becomes something where it's like, hey, why not?

And I think the more, why not spend the time? Why not put why not.

And I think the more, why not spend the time? Why not put why not.

Spend the time? Why not push it? And I know who I'm fighting for?

Spend the time? Why not push it? And I know who I'm fighting for?

And every time we did something, I learned more. So you got to think about this world that I'm in right now. Like infrastructure is very heady, it's very small. A lot of people don't work in infrastructure. There might I swear to God, there might be more people who are getting like laid off from Twitter than work in like the highest parts of infrastructure.

And every time we did something, I learned more. So you got to think about this world that I'm in right now. Like infrastructure is very heady, it's very small. A lot of people don't work in infrastructure. There might I swear to God, there might be more people who are getting like laid off from Twitter than work in like the highest parts of infrastructure.

I gotta say, Pete Buddhajet is maybe the only person I know who works in infrastructure, like the only person I've ever thought of whose name I might know who works in infrastructure. And he just started.

I gotta say, Pete Buddhajet is maybe the only person I know who works in infrastructure, like the only person I've ever thought of whose name I might know who works in infrastructure. And he just started.

And here's the thing. He the policy guy. He's not working with the engineers. He's not thinking through, you know, the technologies that go into everything. And so the more time that I spent in this room, right, this proverbial room, I refuse to leave. Once the soccer kind of brought me in here, the more I just started to listen and learn and pick up on things that very few black girls my.

And here's the thing. He the policy guy. He's not working with the engineers. He's not thinking through, you know, the technologies that go into everything. And so the more time that I spent in this room, right, this proverbial room, I refuse to leave. Once the soccer kind of brought me in here, the more I just started to listen and learn and pick up on things that very few black girls my.

Age had the opportunity to.

Age had the opportunity to.

And so as I'm sitting there and listening and we're trying looking at all these different technologies and all these different things, I'm like, okay, okay, okay, okay, and yeah, And each time someone says something but I don't know what it is, I Google it. So it's kind of like this real time Google listen think. And when I'm thinking, I'm thinking from the perspective of a black woman. So that's what's kind of exciting too, because if the majority of the people in this space don't look like me, you should also assume that they're pretty much using the same solutions to solve these problems and wondering why it's not working. Like the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. But that essentially is what's happening when everybody's the same in this room. So I'm coming in there and I'm coming from the perspective of like living in Harlem. I'm looking up problems and I'm deciding if that's similar to what it takes to get a we've done, and if you know, can we solve the.

And so as I'm sitting there and listening and we're trying looking at all these different technologies and all these different things, I'm like, okay, okay, okay, okay, and yeah, And each time someone says something but I don't know what it is, I Google it. So it's kind of like this real time Google listen think. And when I'm thinking, I'm thinking from the perspective of a black woman. So that's what's kind of exciting too, because if the majority of the people in this space don't look like me, you should also assume that they're pretty much using the same solutions to solve these problems and wondering why it's not working. Like the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. But that essentially is what's happening when everybody's the same in this room. So I'm coming in there and I'm coming from the perspective of like living in Harlem. I'm looking up problems and I'm deciding if that's similar to what it takes to get a we've done, and if you know, can we solve the.

Problem this way.

Problem this way.

After our last break, you'll hear more from Jessica about how going to business school helped her navigate the energy industry that's filled with older white men. What's it like being in these rooms with fifty five where the average person is fifty five white, straight, not you.

After our last break, you'll hear more from Jessica about how going to business school helped her navigate the energy industry that's filled with older white men. What's it like being in these rooms with fifty five where the average person is fifty five white, straight, not you.

I think that was a big reason why I felt the need to go to business school because prior to that, when I was in these rooms, I was constantly thinking, if they say something I've never heard of, what am I going to do? What am I going to say, how am I going to keep up with them?

I think that was a big reason why I felt the need to go to business school because prior to that, when I was in these rooms, I was constantly thinking, if they say something I've never heard of, what am I going to do? What am I going to say, how am I going to keep up with them?

The main point.

The main point.

I know a lot of people go to business school to build their networks, but I, whether I should have or not, I didn't go for that. I went because I wanted to know the parlance like you were talking about, like I wanted to know I don't know. Sometimes I feel this way about Starbucks, like tall, VINTI, grande, whatever the hell, Like I used to have anxiety going to Starbucks because I'd be like, yo, I just want to say large.

I know a lot of people go to business school to build their networks, but I, whether I should have or not, I didn't go for that. I went because I wanted to know the parlance like you were talking about, like I wanted to know I don't know. Sometimes I feel this way about Starbucks, like tall, VINTI, grande, whatever the hell, Like I used to have anxiety going to Starbucks because I'd be like, yo, I just want to say large.

I don't think I should have to like practice.

I don't think I should have to like practice.

And somebody your confidence up when you're going to Starbucks?

And somebody your confidence up when you're going to Starbucks?

Yeah, like thinking about yeah, the whole thing.

Yeah, like thinking about yeah, the whole thing.

And so I kind of went to business school being like, all right, what's the parlance tall, VNTI, grande, da da dada. So that now if I walk into one of these rooms, someone might say something like, oh, do you want to like you know, I don't know, chit your own like coffee, and I'd be like, yo, first of all, you made that shiit up.

And so I kind of went to business school being like, all right, what's the parlance tall, VNTI, grande, da da dada. So that now if I walk into one of these rooms, someone might say something like, oh, do you want to like you know, I don't know, chit your own like coffee, and I'd be like, yo, first of all, you made that shiit up.

Don't act like I'm supposed to know that ship.

Don't act like I'm supposed to know that ship.

So that I came in knowing all the frameworks so that I can move with the confidence and being like I know that I know the basics here.

So that I came in knowing all the frameworks so that I can move with the confidence and being like I know that I know the basics here.

So if you say something that doesn't make.

So if you say something that doesn't make.

Sense, I had the balls to say, excuse me, can you please explain that, because that don't make no damn sense to me.

Sense, I had the balls to say, excuse me, can you please explain that, because that don't make no damn sense to me.

Right, So you could remove timid from the equation, like, oh, maybe maybe it doesn't make sense just because I don't understand it. No, no, no, that don't make sense because it doesn't make sense, makes sense.

Right, So you could remove timid from the equation, like, oh, maybe maybe it doesn't make sense just because I don't understand it. No, no, no, that don't make sense because it doesn't make sense, makes sense.

Because you made that shit up. They didn't teach us that at Harvard Business School. And like again, I had to go to Harvard Business School so I could drop my you know what in the room and be like, first of all, like, don't just start making shit up.

Because you made that shit up. They didn't teach us that at Harvard Business School. And like again, I had to go to Harvard Business School so I could drop my you know what in the room and be like, first of all, like, don't just start making shit up.

Don't just start acting like I should know something. And so I don't.

Don't just start acting like I should know something. And so I don't.

I don't have imposter syndrome anymore, because you get in enough rooms you.

I don't have imposter syndrome anymore, because you get in enough rooms you.

Start to realize.

Start to realize.

One you get into some rooms and you start to realize, like, wait a minute, you know, like in the movie Don't Look Up, where everyone just assumed there was some a group of smart people that are gonna save the world and like they're I started to get into those rooms and being like hoh, the this, this, Oh my god, Jesus helped me. So one is like I started to just see kind of time and time again, the proof and the pudding that people with more money, more degrees, all these different things that like they can't come up with the stuff that we can come up with that uncharted to help save the world. And when it's it's time to make the impossible possible, like I'm not talking about when there are things that are stable and settled and on growth side of things, you want to have certain people there. From an experience perspective, But if you are the head of your if you are the CEO of your life and the CEO of your career of whatever it is that you're trying to do your your job, your your business, passion and vision, and an unwillingness to quit will trump experience every single time, like every single time.

One you get into some rooms and you start to realize, like, wait a minute, you know, like in the movie Don't Look Up, where everyone just assumed there was some a group of smart people that are gonna save the world and like they're I started to get into those rooms and being like hoh, the this, this, Oh my god, Jesus helped me. So one is like I started to just see kind of time and time again, the proof and the pudding that people with more money, more degrees, all these different things that like they can't come up with the stuff that we can come up with that uncharted to help save the world. And when it's it's time to make the impossible possible, like I'm not talking about when there are things that are stable and settled and on growth side of things, you want to have certain people there. From an experience perspective, But if you are the head of your if you are the CEO of your life and the CEO of your career of whatever it is that you're trying to do your your job, your your business, passion and vision, and an unwillingness to quit will trump experience every single time, like every single time.

In other words, the willingness to go to page page seventy six on Google Google.

In other words, the willingness to go to page page seventy six on Google Google.

Yes, yes, the willingness to be like, you know what, I'm going to keep learning and keep How else could I sit here if you asked me to explain the knowledge graph architecture and data taxonomies and the role that it's playing and driving efficiency for how governments make infrastructure decisions. How in the hell else would I be able to do that if it wasn't that I didn't go to school for that. But I definitely can explain it, and in fact, I can architect it.

Yes, yes, the willingness to be like, you know what, I'm going to keep learning and keep How else could I sit here if you asked me to explain the knowledge graph architecture and data taxonomies and the role that it's playing and driving efficiency for how governments make infrastructure decisions. How in the hell else would I be able to do that if it wasn't that I didn't go to school for that. But I definitely can explain it, and in fact, I can architect it.

Right now, how much is your company worth?

Right now, how much is your company worth?

Our on paper valuations, so the closest thing that we would have to evaluation would put us at one hundred million dollars. That's but it's primarily due to kind of the IP and technology and the things that we've done to kind of build up from there. That is like our current our current fundraising.

Our on paper valuations, so the closest thing that we would have to evaluation would put us at one hundred million dollars. That's but it's primarily due to kind of the IP and technology and the things that we've done to kind of build up from there. That is like our current our current fundraising.

Vehicle, what we have on there.

Vehicle, what we have on there.

Yeah, but that's not like you know, like a market IPO or anything. And with this market, who the fuck knows, Like things are kind of everyone's stuff is kind of going crazy. But that's the last, the last. The documentation that we have has like an evaluation cap at about one hundred million.

Yeah, but that's not like you know, like a market IPO or anything. And with this market, who the fuck knows, Like things are kind of everyone's stuff is kind of going crazy. But that's the last, the last. The documentation that we have has like an evaluation cap at about one hundred million.

That is staggering to me.

That is staggering to me.

It's not I don't I don't have that money, and like it's it's all it's all for the birds, right If it's not, it's not in bank accounts or anything.

It's not I don't I don't have that money, and like it's it's all it's all for the birds, right If it's not, it's not in bank accounts or anything.

But you are managing, you have built and are managing organization that's important enough to be I mean that is, yes, how do you how do you handle the pressure of that or do you just not think about that part of it?

But you are managing, you have built and are managing organization that's important enough to be I mean that is, yes, how do you how do you handle the pressure of that or do you just not think about that part of it?

I used to think about it a lot, like I used to tell people, because in twenty sixteen, we raised what was at the time, according to a least what was reported the largest Series A that a black woman had ever raised in history. We raised and it was only seven million dollars. And what was crazy is that that was the year that it was Actually I think the average amount that any founder had raised for a Series A was seven million, but the largest at the time that a blackman ever raised was seven million. And now that I know people who have done so much better than their series as, thank god. And so I remembered being like, whoa like having the moment that you're kind of talking about right now, just like.

I used to think about it a lot, like I used to tell people, because in twenty sixteen, we raised what was at the time, according to a least what was reported the largest Series A that a black woman had ever raised in history. We raised and it was only seven million dollars. And what was crazy is that that was the year that it was Actually I think the average amount that any founder had raised for a Series A was seven million, but the largest at the time that a blackman ever raised was seven million. And now that I know people who have done so much better than their series as, thank god. And so I remembered being like, whoa like having the moment that you're kind of talking about right now, just like.

Oh shit, this is this is much more ya okay.

Oh shit, this is this is much more ya okay.

And so I remember looking out the window of my apartment right when we did it, knowing how hard it was, and I remember telling myself, my goal here is not just to succeed with this company, because that's not going to make me happy.

And so I remember looking out the window of my apartment right when we did it, knowing how hard it was, and I remember telling myself, my goal here is not just to succeed with this company, because that's not going to make me happy.

My goal would be twofold.

My goal would be twofold.

I have to succeed without losing who I am, because I need my daughters to not have to have worked so hard to get to the same point. I don't have daughters yet, but I thought about them. I was like, this has to be something where I do this in the way where people can say I can do this because I see her. She is someone who reminds me of me. And then on the other side, I said, all of these people who took a chance on this black girl, I need to make sure that they do so well, that they make so much money from this, because the next time a black girl says, can you give me some money, I have an idea.

I have to succeed without losing who I am, because I need my daughters to not have to have worked so hard to get to the same point. I don't have daughters yet, but I thought about them. I was like, this has to be something where I do this in the way where people can say I can do this because I see her. She is someone who reminds me of me. And then on the other side, I said, all of these people who took a chance on this black girl, I need to make sure that they do so well, that they make so much money from this, because the next time a black girl says, can you give me some money, I have an idea.

I need them to not even think.

I need them to not even think.

But that's even more pressure. In a way, what you did, you just added more pressure to it.

But that's even more pressure. In a way, what you did, you just added more pressure to it.

It is more pressure. But I think that you have different moments of the pressure, right, like you have different moments. I feel like I'm gonna am I gonna fail these people, I'm gonna fail my investors and what's going on. But again, it's hard not to feel despite all the way, it's hard not to feel a little lucky, like I get to stand here, the daughter of immigrants, blacketing black, like I took a DNA test and straight up, I'm ninety nine point nine percent black, like I am, just like does he like list don't get blacker?

It is more pressure. But I think that you have different moments of the pressure, right, like you have different moments. I feel like I'm gonna am I gonna fail these people, I'm gonna fail my investors and what's going on. But again, it's hard not to feel despite all the way, it's hard not to feel a little lucky, like I get to stand here, the daughter of immigrants, blacketing black, like I took a DNA test and straight up, I'm ninety nine point nine percent black, like I am, just like does he like list don't get blacker?

I walk into these rooms where no one, no one looks like me.

I walk into these rooms where no one, no one looks like me.

And yes, it's so it's the work is so hard, but it also feels like it's almost like the flip side, like if you're a person of color, if you're just anyone who's underestimated, the flip side, it's almost like every day that you survive, you're building your superpowers, and it's almost.

And yes, it's so it's the work is so hard, but it also feels like it's almost like the flip side, like if you're a person of color, if you're just anyone who's underestimated, the flip side, it's almost like every day that you survive, you're building your superpowers, and it's almost.

Like they're creating a monster they don't even know.

Like they're creating a monster they don't even know.

I think that the number of years I've had to grow in this industry, the amount of time I spent in this room, the fact that I'm still in it, still standing, still pushing. Now, I think the next decade will be about building in a different way, but building on top of this incredibly lucky experience.

I think that the number of years I've had to grow in this industry, the amount of time I spent in this room, the fact that I'm still in it, still standing, still pushing. Now, I think the next decade will be about building in a different way, but building on top of this incredibly lucky experience.

Like how many people get to do something that.

Like how many people get to do something that.

They love, do something that engages them, do something that they're passionate about, that pushes them, that makes them grow in a space that few people look like them. But by virtue of the fact that I look different and I'm existing in this space, I can innovate in my sleep.

They love, do something that engages them, do something that they're passionate about, that pushes them, that makes them grow in a space that few people look like them. But by virtue of the fact that I look different and I'm existing in this space, I can innovate in my sleep.

That feels lucky.

That feels lucky.

It's amazing, Jessica.

It's amazing, Jessica.

This was fun.

This was fun.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Jessica's energy is so infectious. I literally left this interview thinking I was gonna come up with the next great invention, which clearly hasn't happened, or I wouldn't be your talking to you. But I'm still working on it and we're gonna keep this show going. Started from the Bottom is produced by David Jah, edited by keyshow Williams, engineered by Ben Holliday, booked by Laura Morgan with production help from Lea Rose. The show is executive produced by Jacob Goldstein, who's not all of in the videos for Pushkin Industries. Our theme music's by Bent Holliday and David Jaw featuring Anthony Yaggs and Savanta Joe Lack. Listen to Started from the Bottom. Wherever you get your podcasts and if you want add free episodes available one week early sign up for Pushkin Plus. Check out Pushkin dot fm or the Apple show page for more information. If you like our show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. I'm justin Richmond.

Jessica's energy is so infectious. I literally left this interview thinking I was gonna come up with the next great invention, which clearly hasn't happened, or I wouldn't be your talking to you. But I'm still working on it and we're gonna keep this show going. Started from the Bottom is produced by David Jah, edited by keyshow Williams, engineered by Ben Holliday, booked by Laura Morgan with production help from Lea Rose. The show is executive produced by Jacob Goldstein, who's not all of in the videos for Pushkin Industries. Our theme music's by Bent Holliday and David Jaw featuring Anthony Yaggs and Savanta Joe Lack. Listen to Started from the Bottom. Wherever you get your podcasts and if you want add free episodes available one week early sign up for Pushkin Plus. Check out Pushkin dot fm or the Apple show page for more information. If you like our show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. I'm justin Richmond.