Welcome everyone to the SI Media Podcast. I am your usual host, Jimmy traina special episode this week, I am taking Christmas off, so I'm turning this entire episode over to my colleague, also one of my producers, Harry sword Out for a special year end Little Pop Culture SI Media Podcast gonna take you through a lot of fun stuff books, movies, TV. Harry, what is this episode going to be all about? Well, you know, it is the holiday time and people are spending time with their family, and so you might want to share with your family some really great sports pop culture from maybe some movies of books, or maybe you don't want to spend that time with your family and you can hide in these things. I was gonna say, I would look at this as an opportunity to duck out from the family. You're gonna cover books, movies, TV, best of the rest correct culture. I think there's a little bit of something for everyone. We've got podcasts, recommendations, and of course great TV shows like The Shop Get to talk about Lebron. I was It's interesting because I was gonna say I can't really offer an opinion on books or movies, but the two best things I saw on TV this year with the Lebron's The Shop on HBO and the Andre the Giant documentary on HBO. Those are you my two contributions to the show. I will be back as always next week, so give it a listen, enjoy it, and check out all the old SI Media podcast episodes in the archives. Good stuff they're Comedian Bill burr Ton of Reality was one of the best ones of the year. John Ceno is one of the best podcasts this year. So when you're done listening to this episode and you get to the end of it and you need more, it's all there for you. And now here is my colleague taking over this week on the SI Media podcast, Harry Swart app alright, let's talk TV around the table. We have Robin Lindbergh, host of s I Now All Around Humanitarian prea decime a video producer Jessica Santana. I'm also a video producer and I'm a co host of Most Valuable Podcast, which is a good podcast y'all should listen to it is Robin, what do you have for us? Well, I'll stay on brand. I have The Shop presented by Lebron, James and crew on HBO in the barbershop. There's gonna be one guy there's not even gonna get a haircutt And he's sitting on the couch and he's like you next, No, I'm good, convinces White. Why do you like the shop? Well, you know, first of all, I like it, and it's not really from a Lebron standpoint. Of course, that's the entryway. I wouldn't have watched it otherwise. But there were some interesting things that that otherwise, um, I didn't know I would be into. Like one was an anecdote into personalities and even things on the court. Victor Oladipo was on one episode and he was talking about his time in Oklahoma City and basically how much the noise can get to a player, Like he said, was a moment where he would look to the sideline and actually see and wonder if people were talking about him. So he thought, maybe they're saying, oh, he can't shoot, he can't play off of Russell Westbrook. So it was a little bit of a window into how much these guys actually think about that stuff which you don't you don't give credence to or attention to. And you know, Marquel folks, for instance, what he's going through right now. I wonder how much everybody talking about him is weighing on him. So I thought that was really insightful from Oladipo, who went on to you know, kill it in his next stop. Then there was the Lebron talk with Maverick Carter and everybody else about their upbringing, and you got a little bit of a window into what makes those guys tick beyond you know, being a basketball player, beyond the business ventures. And then finally I thought it was kind of cool and a little bit of maybe a he can to the future that Drake was on there to give his interview post push a t which he hadn't talked about before, and generally that would be for a different venue or platform. So the fact that it was that platform is just another way that these guys in a way, it's not great for us, but they realized they can circumvent the traditional media and get their message out in a different way. So there were just a few different layers to it that it was better than I thought it was going to be going in. I was like, all right, I'll check. In fact, I didn't watch it right away, I saw other people talk about it and That's what made me watch it, and I liked it more than I actually thought I would because my Lebron fandom is based from him being a great basketball I mean, it's great all the other stuff he's done, but the origin of it is from basketball, so it was cool to see the other stuff. So it seems like it's it's kind of a new kind of access to these players and people. But my my question is it all kind of hinges on? Do you like Lebron? What if you're a Lebron hater, can you still enjoy the show? Well, I mean if you were that much of a Lebron hater, probably not, right, Like, if you're going like, I dislike this guy actively, But if you're not, you can like it without being a Lebron in or you know, tangentially interested, because some of the conversations on the first episode, we're just like interesting from a sociological level. You know, how does a kid who grew up really without parents in a lot of ways, without a dad and you know, in and out of different houses, in an environment where you know, there wasn't that much support, and then all of a sudden he has the the entire world. How how does that shape your worldview. That's just intriguing to me in general. And then some of the other people that are on there aren't Lebron James, like John Stewart was on the first episode. That that gives you a nice ven diagram of interests, I would imagine. And like I said, you know, Drake on another one, Snoop and a whole bunch of you know, people from from different realms. Elena de la don had had some good stuff to say as well. But if you're a huge Drake lover but you hate Lebron, that was a good I mean, I remember I didn't watch that one. I've only watched the first two, but was all over Twitter. I detect my brother and be like, what's going on? Catched me up? You were hiding a child, right, I mean that was he hadn't responded to that whole thing from the push of this, so um he waited a while. And that's what I found sort of fascinating is that was the way he wanted to get that message out. So it was clearly crafted. But these guys don't. It's like when um ice Cube and Dr Dre made straight out of comptent that you know it was a good movie, but they painted themselves like heroes. So in this venue, of course they're going to come out looking good. But I think, you know, if you're interested in the subject matter, they did a good job of answering or at least giving you sound bites on all the relevant to When I was on uh CO hosted Sign Out with You one week and I think it was when it premiered, and I was like, this is great the things that they're talking about. But then I wondered, like, is this sustainable? Right? It feels a little bit like a round table, and I hate round tables. While we're doing a round table, but the table is not exactly round. It's more like it's like is it gonna So I'm assuming that it's like morphing into different things now, so I wonder what is this next? Like where does this go? That's a good question. I think that's the reason they haven't had a bunch of them. There's only been a couple. So in order for it to have maximum effect, I think they need the cast to be strong and the topic matter to be strong, and that would get watered down if it was like episodic on a weekly basis. Do you hear about it a lot though since the first week, I think there's only been two there's so that's the point. So the first it was the first week, and then there was the Drake, so I'm not behind. Yeah, I think they're clearly trying to make news with each episode in a sense too, every month, is it. I don't know what the release schedule is, to be honest with you, because it's just been this too. Um. I'm not a Lebron hater, but I'm also not really a basketball fan at all. So is there anything in this show for someone who doesn't really might not care too much about the basketball storylines? And I am a little intrigued by the drag stuff, but not really something that will make me tune in. Sure. I mean, like I said, there's the insight into the athlete and the athlete experience. There was the the you know, explanation of of you know, what it's like to try and mold this empire that they have and deal with the scrutiny that they have. So I think that's just interesting on a human level. And then it's not just you know basketball to or it's not just um basketball in the sense that it's you know, what do you do when the shot clock is winding down? It's really Elena Deladn, you know, telling about how you know, women players are viewed and perceived and having to break through some of those notions. So a lot of that stuff I think is just relatable, either if you're a sports fan or just from a human interstandpoint. I wonder if other athletes are going to kind of jump on this like you're they're able to, Like Lebron is really paved the way to be like, I'm going to paint my own story and I'm going to create my own narrative and not and this is not good for us, but not really depend on the media for to to be the conduit. Yeah, I mean he's like sports, He's trying to be sports Oprah in this sense, right, But I mean I think it's hard. I mean it's it's easy in the sense that guys can get their own message out there. I mean, like even social media Twitter. You know, I could see them going, all right, why do I need to have this particular platform if I can just you know, put it out there myself. But I think the one difficulty is Lebron is so universally recognizable regardless of whether you're a basketball fan or not. That I wonder how many people come to even check you out if you don't have somebody like that as the entry point. I think it depends on who he has on the show. He's had a he's done a really good job now that i've only I haven't missed more than one episode. He's done a really good job bringing like a very well rounded group of people like Jon Stewart. That was that was a surprise, A good surprise, but that was a surprise. I think it was strategic to you know, everything he does. Yeah, yeah, but I mean it was for that. I think it's for that exact reaction, right, Oh, he's got Jon Stewart on, and then Jon Stewart is so um intuitively he understands how to direct these conversations. So it was like that had a couple of hosts right because you know, they were going the way they wanted to go, and then he was flipping it from the other perspective, which just led it to maybe conversations that wouldn't have been had. All right, So that's Robin Lundbergh on the shop. Next we got Pria, what do you have for us between the Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling also known as Glow. Hello, ladies, I'm Sam Sylvia and this is sorry, what's glow? Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling? Are you hiring actress to play wrestlers or are we the wrestlers? Yes? Two seasons. UM has my one of my favorite actresses on, Alison Bree. I love her. I feel like we could be friends. So Alice and I fever in New York. She was great and madman, she was great in community, She's amazing and she's I could go on about her forever. It's a whole different podcast, UM, but it's a it's based on a real life group of women who created Glow. And I actually watched the documentary that came out a while ago, even before I knew they were doing the show, and I'm a big documentary fan, and someone recommended it to me. I really enjoy it. Well, I enjoyed it so much with the first season. I watched in like two weeks and they were actually going to cancel it after the first season because nobody was, like, really people there was a lot of like good reviews and people were talking about it, but that weird like Netflix, like a logarithm, like people weren't getting it in whatever, and there was a huge like outrage and now they end up having second season and a third season. But it just basically follows a path of these women who end up doing something that was pretty unique. Yes, So the question I have is, is you mentioned that there's like a real life glow, Um, how much of the show is you know, kind of adheres to the actual history versus how much of it is is manufactured for drama and entertainment. So, going in from the interviews I've read all the actresses, Initially we're like, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna lightly base it off these characters, but I really want to um kind of make this my own. But then a majority of them took a lot of their characteristics and their storylines with them. There are some like bigger plots that are obviously made to keep this the storyline going on. But as far as like the characters, both the wrestling characters and their real life characters, those are are pretty um, I wouldn't say spot on, but they're they're respectful. What is the target audience? Is it wrestling fans? Is it you know people who just like that that sort of you know, television series, what is it? So there's a there's one of our likes. Dave Stepperson and I were talking. I came in and I was like, he was like, what did you do this weekend? I was like, I watched Glove for ten hours and he was like, that's a great show. And he's a huge wrestling fan. Huge. His wife is not a huge sports fan. He's like, my wife loved it. So it's one of those things where you like both sports and non sports, and wrestling fans and non wrestling fans can really get into it because it's it's also just produced very well and the acting is really good, and there's there's a lot of characters that you really root for for a show that's based on reality and real people. Where do you think the show will go next? Because you said there's been two seasons and now there's going to be a third season. Do you think they're going to have to start kind of wavering from the real people that they're basing it off of, or where is it going to go now? Yeah, the it ended in the late eighties, got well, it was off the television by then, and I think if the show continues to be a hit, Obviously Hollywood wants to make money. There's definitely an ability to because they take a lot of things that were happening then and they'll weave it in. So they'll talk about women's rights, reproductive rights, and um they talk about casual racism, a lot of things that we talked about today, which is slightly depressing, so it's very relatable. Um So I think that they are able to use the storylines and then capture what's happening historically in the moment and create storylines from that. So if they wanted to take this out for a while, I think they definitely go. Because the ladies did continue wrestling, they just did it off of television in different formats. Yeah, they it could become a show called Divas. And then we're talking about the attitude Earra ladies and I'd watched that too. I'd watch that too. It's kind of a triating because it's not, you know, the way you're describe it not reality TV. It's it's quasi reality TV. I mean it's scripted, right, it's and it's it's well done television. So don't let the word divas scary. Oh, I've seen a few episodes Anny Fi, but it's not drama like, oh my god, you're sleeping with my now I actually know that that is a plotline. But it's very the fabulous Mola hit me with a chair. There's a lot of good nuances and there's a lot of um the storylines rather a very nuanced and I think, and they're very well written. They've got great writers, so it's not like it's not corny. The reason I stayed away from it initially and I ended up just binging for a weekend because I don't really do anything on the weekends to be with is I thought it was going to be like cheesy, corny, like eighties nineties wrestling that I grew up with. I didn't want to see that. But it's very thoughtful and the acting is really good. So I think that if you're if you're a fan of good television and you want to see something that is historical in natures as it the fact that it actually happened, then I would I would check it out. Excellent. So that's free decide for Glow. It's on Netflix. You get it all right now, two seasons, right, Yes, and the third season on its way. Jess what you got? Yeah, So this this year, I really enjoyed the Hard Knocks season with the Cleveland Browns. Right, you're not stay late, arrive early. It's the only way to get better. Rookie quarterback Baker Mayfield has seen the light because I think that Hard Knocks has been struggling the last few years to really find find itself. UM. A lot of the tropes of the past whatever ten or fifteen years have just been replayed over and over. You get like the Sprinkler montage, you get like the cars rolling up to practice camp. Um. But this year, I think there were really solid characters in this season, and I think it kind of gave me hope for the future of Hard Knocks. UM. I think the the producers got either lucky or however you want to say, smart about choosing the Browns because they had a first round, first overall pick rookie quarterback coming in and Baker Mayfield, and he's someone who's shown a lot of personality throughout his college career, and he's some he's someone that I think an audience has really wanted to get to know. UM. And then of course it's the brown so their entire front office and coaching staff is kind of a dumpster fire, and being able to see that behind the scenes I think was a really fascinating as a sports fan. So did it play kind of like a bad soap opera? Like were you tuning in to watch them fail? Yeah? Like, were you turning into not really and it's I'm not I'm I'm not a Browns fan. I'm actually a Steelers fan, so their division rivals. But I was tuning in more to see the characters in the show and kind of see like, you know, you've heard stories about how Hugh Jackson is incompetent, and you know everyone knows Greg Williams from bounty Gate, and having this this take you behind the scenes and see their personalities and what they're like as coaches, I think was actually very informative as a sports fan like I. You can actually see firsthand how Hugh Jackson's running his practice and see, you know, judge for yourself if he actually knows what he's doing or not. And that's it's pretty cool to see that behind the scenes. As long as that show has been on the Era, I would agree it's sort of been like Team and character dependent because it's less of a wow, look where we're getting this access. So did they do anything from a production standpoint that made it stand out aside from just having Baker Mayfield having the huge Jackson story and everything like that. No, I honestly think that, Um, they kind of play the hits when it comes to producing it. They know, like the Hard Knocks, Bread and Butter is like finding those two training camp players who might be a little weird or interesting that you want to root for, and then finding the two guys that are going to get cut at the end of the season. Um. And I think this year they just picked the right people and made the right choices with those storylines, and it made it the show overall a better product. And of course there was tons of slow moo I imagine, of course, and like those are I think, I think, yeah, those are the weaker, weaker parts of the series that UM like the formula, I think they could almost lose entirely or just change but um, that way, it wouldn't rely so heavily on characters and they could actually make some stylistic choices that would make a better show. But I think this year, since they did have their characters, it still worked. I didn't watch it this year. I actually didn't watch last year either. Last year was bad, That's what I heard. I think that's so I was in. What I was curious is like I've become the last few weeks a huge Baker Mayfield fan, and like I love his just brazen swag, Like he just doesn't care in the sense that like he's going to say what he wants to say. And there's so many people out there. I don't know if you guys saw Jeanne Sanders kind of come down on him, and Baker's like, I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do. So I respect that, and I like his beard game. It's very impressive. So should I go back and watch, Like does he really come out or are we seeing his personality really come out? Now? Um? I think now that we're the NFL season is almost over, I think it almost is more interesting in watching it now and seeing that he wasn't even the number one quarterback in the room at the start of the season. Um, but I think his personality was really starting. I think for a lot of NFL fans that didn't really you know, don't watch college football or weren't paying attention to his college story at Oklahoma. That was kind of their first exposure to him and their first exposure to Um the other rookies on the team. And I think it's almost more interesting now to go back and see how different things were like ten weeks ago when the season started than it is now. At least Driver is narrating it. Yeah, of course recording a podcast. I'm watching down in right now, so maybe like once I'm dead with the season, you can watch it. What was he like x Men? He was X Men origins Wolverine, which almost retroactively ruined my childhood. Just grate, I'm sorry I even mentioned it. So that is Hard Knocks. The seminal show at HBO just recommends that. So that gives us two HBO shows. I'm going to add a second Netflix show to the mix. We already had Glow. I'm giving you marching orders. We've got commercials, super Bowl, the movie drum Line. We don't take anything but the best two days gonna happen. You're gonna kick somebody as or you're gonna get your ass. And it is about a marching band, which is a sport. It is certainly a sport. Uh, and I will talk about why. So Marching Orders is uh there twelve minute they're really short episodes on Netflix and they follow the HBCU Bethune Cookman and they have a famous marching band and there, uh you know, world renowned for their marching band is not necessarily as buttoned up as some of the other like, you know, I'm not professional, but some of the other like famous marching band's they do kind of things like really tight motions with and Cookman is better known for having like kind of bombastic performances with a lot of dance and a lot of rhythm and a lot of cool things going on. Uh. And this starts before the season even starts in Daytona Beach, which is where they are in the summer for band camp. So this is a one time at band camp story kind of thing and Academy Awards for sweating to everyone because it is in Florida in the middle of the summer and they're wearing black and it's not okay, everyone is sweating, but it's it's it plays kind of like a reality show, like you know, any kind of show where you put a bunch of people in a room and see what happens. But it's kind of the pressure isn't applied by the usual reality show tricks. Instead it's applied by having to be in a marching band. And so you have the fourteen carrot dancers and who's going to make the team, and and there's a big section about, um, you know, kind of are you going to make the cut? And they're very vicious with their cuts. If you made it last year, that doesn't mean you make it again this year. So they cut a lot of seniors and juniors, and that's that's a big thing. But it also has some really interesting um social dynamic commentary where they have uh, for instance, the color guard. These girls try out, they get in, but they don't have enough size XCEL uniforms for all of the girls and they can't it would take months to get them ordered because apparently marching band uniforms take forever. Thing I learned, and so he basically says, look the the the band director, who's kind of a tough love guy, his name is Donovan Wells, he says, look y'all made it. We don't have any uniforms for you. We can't use you. And so he like extra cuts another few people who were good enough to get in, and this kind of size narrative runs throughout because there's they follow one of the dancers who basically is on probation. Yes it's yeah, it's it's it's tough, but yeah, so that's that kind of good will give you a feel of what's going on. But the the there's also kind of like the New Gutea Centers. There's a melophone player who's reconnecting with his mom through the band, and he's been a strange from her, and so that's kind of like that very dramatic. There's a lot of staffs. But here's my problem with it. It's only twelve minutes, and it's a little frustrating that they like they must have had a bunch of footage on the cutting room floor and this I'm assuming it got made and maybe Netflix suggests to cut it down. I don't know who decided to cut into developments, but I thought that was really problematic because I would watch one episode and then and just feel like I didn't really get a chance, Like right when I got into the story, the credits would roll. Yeah, And I think the thing that I feel like they were probably trying to do is get people who would never try to be like always twelve man. Yeah, that that I mean when he said that, I would be more likely to just kind of watch it than I would if I. You know, some of these shows that even people say the best shows ever, like The Wire and shows like that. Okay, calm down. Whatever brands with an example of some a show that someone would say is the best show ever. It always feels like such an endeavor to me. I'm like, I don't know if I can do that. I don't have seven seasons in twelve minutes. Alright, man, I could check it out. It's like the you know, the trend with some of the albums, you know, like Daytona or four four four, you know, like the way that they're they're shorter. It makes them easier to digest. So I could see that being the incentive, but I do think that does hurt them later on, once you've hooked them, you kind of it is like you turn it on and it's the credit the story, don't worry about. If the story is good enough, people will watch episode yeah, and I'm hoping maybe the second season they'll they'll decide to uh do it a little bit differently, and there's there definitely could and should be a second season because the show stops right after their first competition, so there's a lot more stuff they could be following and doing and watching them do. So I'm that that is actually one of the one of the few flaws I would find with the show is like, I want more marching band people. Yeah, okay, I get but marching band, I've more cruel band. It is it the HBCU factor that brings that out a little bit to like, you know, kind of the culture that's brought to the music. Yeah, I mean, so my my wife what was in the marching man in high school and college? She was in northwesterns Marching band and they're one of the more buttoned up kinds. So it's very kind of like drills and you do and you march in a circle and you might make a cool shape. There's a lot of like dance breaks, and of course there's the constant dancers and color guard for the band. So the the it kind of and the competition, at least the one we saw in the in the last few episodes of this season also was instead of just everybody goes out and does their things. There's a stand section where you do like hype you get you know, you try to get the crowd hyped, and then there's like a a and that's more call and response, and then you get a like a on the field section, and there's a lot of kind of back and forth between the crowd and the band, which I I would say is probably stems from that kind of thing. And I wonder if there, if they do, are they doing a second season? I haven't seen confirmed anywhere, but I don't know why they wouldn't. In Netflix is really weird about announcing seasons twos of things. I wouldn't mind more of like a historical aspect. Yeah, yeah, that would explaining why it's like different there, why it's such a big deal, or why they picked that school or right like that. Yeah, well, it just seemed a little bit lazy. I'm why are band directors and conductors such hard asses? What was that J K. Simmons movie? But oh yeah, I mean he the I guess it would be because they have like a hundred and something college kids. They have to make do one thing, and I imagine the only way you do that is if you actual salutely go iron fist on because I can't get college kids to do anything. It reminds me of, um, did you see the new season of Last Chance You? Also on Netflix? This season for me just like I would much rather watch the Marketing Band show than that season or then Last Chance You because the coach head Coach was just such an he was such an asshole. I could like after three episodes, I was like, man, I can't listen to this guy. Drop It's funny you were searching for the right word, and then that one mr what came out. I was trying to find the right word and I couldn't. Like he was really mean code. So that was Marching Orders. It's on Netflix now. Thank you guys so much for being here. Give me your social handles. Robin At, Robin Lindberg at Priya Decide, jess At, Jessica underscores Metana. I'm Harry Swartout. That's at Harry swart Out on Twitter. Up. Next Best to the Rest. Alright, we're back with the best of the rest. That's everything that doesn't fit into TV's books or movies. So we're gonna get weird. Uh, let's go around and introduce our panelists. My name is Darrell Harris. I am the associate producer NBA producer at Sports Illustrated. I'm Charlotte Wilder, uh, miss senior writer, podcast host and host of The Wilder Project as Parts Illustrated and the podcast is most vavable podcast and you should all listen to it. Definitely listen to it. And my name's Johnny motion On. I'm production assistant for s I now and our youngest tire. He's the baby of the group, so years old. He taught me what heat meant, did not know? Yeah, that will happen skirts skirt indeed. Okay, so let's let's start off, Jarrell, what do you have for us today? Um, I'm gonna run through a couple of sneakers that everyone should buy, Okay, I definitely want to hear what. Um. One of them is definitely the Nike Krdie five. But when it comes down to the sneakers, I would say, like Kyrie's like up there number one, uh and sneaker cells Lebron has like the most. But when it comes to like cool color ways and like what kids really want, I'm definitely gonna recommend Kyrie. Why is that what's special about him, I think you will relate to Kyrie more like no one, not everyone can be like six eight and seventy pounds. Is like it's like the same thing with like seven Curry. Like I can see myself doing that kind of stuff, and like I could wear his sneakers, but lebron sneakers are like very heavy. I can't do that. Like Lebron is too good. He's too good. Now, I do have a question. Does Kyrie shoes work on a round earth? Do they hold you to a round earth? I know they work on flatter yes, but I would say yes they do. The traction on the sneaker is really incredible. Um, technology wise, it like hits on everything that you need. You're not going to be sliding across the floor that much. It really contains your foot. So what would you say they look like? Because I know there's a podcast, so you can't see them. We're not showing you to them. But like if you had to describe them to somebody, what would you say they like? I would say they are really casual. Um. Most of his sneakers look kind of the same. But I can see a lot of NBA players are doing that, like Kevin Durant had his past few like sneakers have all like look the same, like they want to feel like, they want to be comfortable in their own shoes. So my question about Kyrie shoes is I look at them and I think, I mean, ever since he came out with the serial editions, UM, all I can think of is that they look kind of like dinosaurs and syrial like, they're very they feel very childlike in a really fun way. Is there another you know, another basketball player or another shoe that you think is sort of playful in that same way as Kyrie's. UM. I would say Paul George is really big on that. I spoke to him last week and he does a lot of collouds, but like PlayStations, kids love that. He's become like one of the best signatures sneaker stars in the NBA now because of all the collapse he does. Yeah. What I'm curious about two is I'm someone who is not as much or into the shoe game as I want to be, because I think shoes are obviously super fashionable and awesome. But what confuses me is more or less the value of shoes. How do we not overpay for a year basically how do you shoot? Um, I would say, read sneaker blogs more often. Um does exist? Yea, they definitely do exist. Um. But someone like Michael Jordan, who has like big influence on today's NBA and like sneaker culture in general, Like if you know much about his sneakers, they're going to be like everywhere, like walking down soho um. One of the sneakers I was going to talk about was the Air Jordan eleven that's coming up this Saturday, and it's one of the most famous sneakers of all time. It's beautiful, like Michael Jordan made it for kids to wear to their prom or graduation. Really yeah, I didn't know that. So um, I think his brother in law got married and he brought his groomsmen all Jordan elevens before you can wear on the wedding day. So I'm gonna wear those if I ever get married. So they're like sneakers to go with the tucks. What you're saying, so how do they? How do how are they so nice? They go with the ducks? I need to know. Yes, Well, this color way is white and black and you can wear it with any soup and pan leather is perfect. Are you going to get a pair? You know he already got one. Jar's got the hookup. Seriously, I think I have over hundred pairs in my closet. That might be more than I have owned in my life New York. Alright, and you have the room for what's your secret? Man? I do not have the room my parents. Most of my sneakers are at my parents house. Okay, I moved out two years ago, so, but most of the boxes in my room, in my old room, it's just you don't want to walk in there. How many pairs of shoes, Like do you wear on an average basis the sad thing about this, I only wear like three pairs of sneakers something. So they're like they're they're they're discussion pieces. So when people walk in your house, there's like the iron throne, but shoes, it is just a beautiful throne of shoes. My dad usually he's like, yeah, you got a museum back there. But you asked me if I'm ever going to sell my sneakers, But I just I don't know. They're nice to have. I mean I feel that I feel that way about Sometimes there are things that you care about a lot. You don't have to use them to get pleasure from them. It's like you know that you have them and they bring you joy, and that's enough with your favorite shoe that you own. I was like trying to see what he's wearing right now. They're tight, but my favorite shoe of all times. All right, this is a story. I haven't bought a pair of sneakers in three years. I haven't had to because they sent me a bunch, you know. But the Air drown In three Black Cements came out this past February. It's my favorite sneaker of all time, and they didn't send me a pair, but I was like, there's no way I'm not gonna get this. So it was really special when I finally got it, and it felt better than actually getting the sneaker that's like free basically, but I was like, actually, love this shoe. I wanna wear it every day. You have to work for it. I love that. I love that. I'm just it's Charlotte. Um. I have a list I put together of good people in sports media to follow on Twitter because we desperately need in these trying times. Yeah, I mean Twitter, you know I need it. I rely on it. A lot for getting my work out there for you know, if if people know what to expect from my voice and I can build that up on Twitter, it's less weird when I drop a story and everyone's like, why did you interview gritty? But instead they're like, oh, of course you interview gritty. Uh. But it can also be kind of a garbage fire, and there are a lot of really bad takes. So I've put together a list of some people who have either good or funny or interesting things to say regularly. Um, who are authentic and who I don't. I don't look at any of these people's tweets and roll my eyes and think, oh my god, this person is insufferaball, which is a really high bar. Actually, um s I I think some of the people who generally learn a lot from or who makes me laugh on a daily basis my podcast co host, of course, Jessica's Metanna. Her Twitter is at Jessica Underscores Metanna. I was featured on our last episode. Yeah, so she's she's very funny and tons of stuff about college football and NFL um that she'll she'll she'll teach you stuff as you're laughing at her jokes. Which I find um to be hard to do and very important when it comes to social media. Then Jenny Brentis and Robert Clemco on the NFL Beat, I just they write stuff that makes me think about the sport in a different way. They give me um new information all the time, and they're pretty funny about it. Uh So that's always helpful and fun especially in the fall. Um. Emma Bacca Leary on the Baseball Beat is She's just she. She writes about baseball in a way that um makes me. She brings it to life a little bit, which I think is very cool. And her Twitter is also pret be funny. Uh And Rohan nud Carney My, my dude, he just has He is the most whacked out tweets and says the funniest stuff and I always appreciate that. But then, um, outside of the building, I have a few I'll just sort of run through them by And I'm from Boston, so the Boston media people that I get all my local news from Boston, are you from Boston? Were surrounded? Yeah? Sorry about all the championships, except I'm not sorry at all. Um So. Nora Princeoti at the Boston Globe does is on the Patriots beat, and she is just a rising star. You keep an eye on her. She writes amazing stuff, gives incredible game analysis, is funny when she's not doing football stuff, and even often when she is. Um. Doug kite at Nesson is great. I follow him for you know up to the minute what's going on with the team. And Chad Finn his handles at Globe Chat Finn and he just does incredible media coverage, like he really has his finger on the pulse. He knows it's going on nationally to not just in Boston. But it's fun for me because there's always a Boston slant to it. Uh. And then at the ring or there are three women there that I just think are hilarious Um, which is Haleo Shaughnessy whose handles Halio something Um, Megan Schuster who's Meg Schuster, And Stephanie Snowden who's you got snowed um, And they're just they're really clever. Um. Meg does a lot of golf stuff, Haley does a lot of NBA stuff, Stephanie does a lot of gaming stuff and video and it's just fun to see people talking to each other and and laughing and giving you kind of what you want. When you tune in, I'm like, oh cool, that's a Haley tweeter. No, it's gonna be good. Um you get psyched for the tweets. Yeah, totally. And then uh, you know Bill Barnwell for NFL stuff at ESPN, Harry Lyles Jr. And Whitney Medworth for NFL and NBA at Espionation where he used to work their Wonderful People. Um, and Hunter Harris at New York Magazine. She's not sports, but I think everyone should follow her because her tweets about movies. Um, absolute fire. She just falls in love with a different movie like once every two months and then it only like is locked in on it. Um. Sorry, this is so long. I almost done. Um. For non Humans, Gritty, it's the Flyer's mascot. I would follow Gritty off a cliff, so follow him on Twitter at Gritty NHL are the best. He is this amorphous monster who has the fun. Like today, the Flyers tweeted out Gritty photoshopped onto nineties movies and he just quote tweeted it and said, what's the nineties? Can somebody please tell me what a nine? And I was like, you're perfect and the Red Sox. Social media is actually very funny and good and I actually actually extend the gritty thing whole. NHL's Twitter is lit. NHL likes to go in on Twitter, so they if you follow any of their teams, they will have like fights in the middle of games with Twitter, like oh yeah. Also, the Biggest Nights have an amazing Twitter handle. They do so any any you can't go wrong. Any NHL team really good tweets. But I do have a question in these trying times, I want to smile. Who's the what's the one followed that would just make me so happy? Um. I love Josh Gondleman. He's a writer, a comedian and just he is a dear friend. He's probably the nicest man in America. But he's able to be kind and earnest on Twitter without being Sacharin or annoying. And I think that that is the finest line to thread, finest needle to thread, finest line to walk over the thing goes and he does it repeatedly. Um. He He tweeted something recently that was like, I like living in New York because it's suspicious if you're happy and healthy, and it's like it's it seems like they kind of makes you feel better about your welf. And he also does these things well here. He'll sign on and be like hey for the next ten minutes, I'm here for a pep talk if you need one, and he just talks people up. And I think that that is a kindness and a spirit that is so lacking online and he does it so well. But like, definitely that that that would be my my pick. I follow a lot of sports accounts on Twitter and entertainment accounts, so and I'm looking for something fresh. So who do you recommend I should follow new takes? Something fresh? For new takes? Oh boy? Um, I mean you should definitely follow our podcast At most of the podcasts there are some really fresh takes the friends. I wasn't gonna say it, but Harry for sure, and I guess for you as well. My question is everyone who wants to grow their social media platform and your social media's Charlotte Wilde, they're at unbelievable. Um, so we all love it here. And my question more or less is for those trying to improve their social media, how important is it to follow some of these names that you've mentioned and try to get more creative input from them. Yeah, I mean, I think there's a that's interesting because when I was starting out, you know, these there were a bunch of names that I, you know, sort of saw other people following and talking to, and I would chime in every once in a while, and like some people would think it was funny and then they would follow me, and it's just sort it's kind of it's more like networking, like you're building. If you're authentic and you're true to yourself, Um, it's harder to mess that up, Like, don't try to be someone you're not. And then if you just continue to show up and people like what you have to say, people amplify you. So yeah, I think that following these accounts and sort of chiming in every once in a while, or making it known, making your presence known, um, if you want to grow, following is definitely helpful and important. Um, it's also exhausting. Now we're moving on to Johnny Show. Johnny, what do you got for us? All Right? So I just want to talk to you guys all about twitch and UH athletes more or less on twitch, because uh, I don't know anything about this man and I feel so washed and I need It's all right, let's the young guy coming to help. Obviously being a big video game nerd, just is it whole social media esque platform for UH people to really relay their messages out to the world while also playing video games. So when I was a kid growing up, UH, probably the height of my video game experience was during the PS two shout out to Sly Cooper unbelievable game, miss it Dearly. But there there was no Twitch. There was nothing like that, and so um for me when I was just interacting with um like media and I was always a big sports kid growing up. When I would go on YouTube, I would be able to watch highlights of the players, but I can never actually see what they did for on and now Twitch gives an element where you can get into the athletes head and really kind of learn who they are as a person more than just who they are playing. So it's a really cool opportunity to go out there and you can find clips, whether it's on YouTube, whether it's through Twitch specifically, of all these athletes playing the games that they love to play and really just sharing their messages. So I can go out there and watch Gordon Hayward. Just build a bunch of one by ones and just go up and start double pumping people in Fortnite on a regular lay. Any of the words you just said, are you is this still video games? We're still doing video games now? Oh we are? These are all This is a big I'm big Fortnite. Fortnite is unbelievable, sleeping the nation? What am I missing out on Fortnite? When my nephew plays like every day, I'm like, can we go outside and play basketball? But he's like, no way, no, not a chance. They're missing on everything. So Fortnite it's all battle Royale. So every hundred people flying to the map at once and you got to survive to the end. That's what it's all about. Whether you're playing solo, whether they're playing with your boys and you get the squad to get other you just roll through and uh, it's a lot of fun when you're specifically actually doing stream stuff through Twitch on that front too. So um, whether it's you doing it with your friends, are you watching Ninja play or any of the other ones, t SM, myth, all the big names that are out there right now, you can do that or you can watch also like Cat and Ben Simmons playing together, and it's a sorry is uh is Twitch? You correct me? If I'm on You pay to watch people's individual streams. No, you don't have to. You can personally pay someone if you enjoy watching their content, but you can watch it for free, which is just like any So you like, you log in and you're like, hey, I want to watch Baker Mayfield play Fortnite, so you just follow that. Yeah, so the biggest Twitch streamer right now is Ninja, who's big into Fortnite. So what I'll personally do is I'll just log into Twitch, go to Ninja's account. He's almost always streaming us. That's his life. So you go on and then you can see him playing. He's either really into the game and you can tell, or he's listening to music, making yell while playing, answering listeners questions. Because there's a chat bars you can chat things, uh, and that's where you can send money as well, and um, really, it's just a whole little community that all together watches these unbelievable video game players play their game. And uh, it's a lot of fun to watch. And yeah, that's how you learn the games. Um, why do you think NBA players are big into Fortnite and Switch? Now? Well, I think these athletes have always been into video games. It's just the side that we don't get to see as fans. So now that it's something that gives them an opportunity to relax and be themselves. But it's also great for marketing themselves out to fans and really getting out their messages and being normal human beings because a lot of times you'll idolize these athletes as a fan and you don't really know anything about them. But here's the opportunity for Cat to go on and start streaming, and people are like, oh, he's really funny. He can do all this one on one direct and he can be a really social person and that makes me want to watch him and support him as a fan and support him with the Timberwolves. And obviously he's playing great now that Butler's gone, so it's exciting to see and uh, someone like Gordon Hayward. It was really cool when he was going through his old ankle recovery just to be able to go online and watch him play, and he was always really cute. You have his little daughter sitting on his lap and it was It's always fun and just to see him kind of humanizes him to a certain extent, to know that he's struggling through his injury. He's talking about it a little bit more playing the game, but you get to know those little bit of inside details and uh see some of your favorite players do what they love now. So you get to you get this kind of cool window into the athletes lives and you get to like kind of interact with them even directly if you're using the chat bar. Is there is there one athlete who you've got to recommend, Like you need to go check out whoever, Who's whose twitches the best twitch? I mean, I'm definitely biased. I've mentioned his name already. I really like seeing Gordon Hayward play. He's just unbelievable at the game UM as well as Carlinton Towns. He's a lot of fun to watch. UM. Something that Baker. I'm a big Baker Mayfield guy. You know, I haven't I haven't caught Baker. I really haven't. Which I feel like I've seen a video on Twitter of him playing and I was like that seems it might have fell through my crest. I haven't seen him, but there's a lot of really cool athletes out there, and they all play Paula. George also has had some fun streams, which might be a little surprising. Now, can you plant a flag in Fortnite? Because I feel like Baker Maid? Can you grab your c You can definitely dance. You can definitely dance and show off all the moves. Maybe we should the new season just drop season seven. So maybe we should uh right in and see if Epic Games will put in a nice little flag the middle of the amount that I do not know is staggering. Yeah, I think we all just learned something. I feel so washed. Did you learned anything? You just got to build one by ones and have two pumps. That's all you need. Yeah, for sure, man, I know what that mean. Toads. So that was Johnny mo show for Fortnite and add twitch streams of athletes. I love it. I learned so much. Let's say I I am contractually obligated to pitch podcasts. I do podcasting here at s I, and I'm doing one right now. But I have two true crime sports stories to give to you. First one is Caruth. Uh So if if y'all don't know. Ray Ruth was a receiver for the Panthers in the nineties and he basically paid a hitman to kill his baby mom mhm. And it's this is this you know, kind of if you've ever listened to Cereal, which is the only podcast most people have listened to. But if you ever listen to Cereal, it's a lot like that, except there isn't the um kind of suspense of like did did did he do it? Did he not do it? It's settled law and it's it's generally accepted and there's not really any ambiguity. But it's telling the story of how it happened and why it happened, and there's these The way it sparkles is with the interviews. The interviews are in in depth, they're really touching, and especially at the end when you meet the child that Ray Kruth was trying to have killed. Ah, it it'll make you cry. It'll just yeah, so it'll it'll So the mother died, the kid survived. The yes, the mother unfortunately passed away. Her name was Shaik adams Uh and her story and I'm not giving too much away, after she was shot, she made she called and they have the call and not, but she basically gave them all the evidence they needed to get Kruth. So like an amazing story of a woman who literally would not say die and saved her child. Because that's that's the only reason that we you know that Chancellor Lead the name of a child is still around is because she really fought for And then my second pod is a little bit of a plug. It's it's not m v P, although you should also listen to that that's not true yet you never know, well, we do have our true gritty serial you never know what happens there. I again recommend that. But this is Fall of a Titan and it's the story of Steve McNair and his tragic death. This one kind of is more serial like insofar as there's a question of is the crime what the police said it was? So the police said that Jenny Kazami, uh, Steve's uh lover basically assassinated him in and committed suicide. Uh, And the the podcast basically cast down on that. Are we sure? Uh? You know. The way they go through is they kind of try to slowly pick apart what is wrong with the case, and it starts off doing a lot of character work, and sometimes that's a little bit less convincing, but it's more it's obviously more color, and it kind of gives you a feel for who's around Steve, which I think is really important. And then it gets into, you know, more of the actual like Okay, where did where did she get the gun from? Why did she get the gun from here? And is everybody who's telling that part of the story lying? Spoiler kind of are everybody is lying? It's like house, everybody's lying. So I recommend both of those incredibly highly Uh any questions, who do Yeah, who does the Caruth podcast? What network or or journalists? Is that? I'm glad you ask. So it's the Charlotte Observer and mcclatch key Studios. And the reason that it's one of the reasons that they that that podcast is so good is because the Charlotte Observer had been covering it when yeah, decades, Yeah, so twenty years he was in jail, Rake Ruth was. They had been you know this same in fact, the same reporter, Scott Fowler. He's been following the story the whole way himself, and so he had all of this archival footage from himself and it built all these relationships over the years. So that's why he was able to get those really great interviews that are kind of blow your mind. I haven't gotten into true crime podcast that much. I'm more of a Netflix guy, like Watchmaking a Murder or The Staircase. So can you tell me more about the experience of like actually listening to it instead of like watching Sure, So you know, unlike a podcast or a true crime documentary, you might see you obviously can't see the crime scene, so there's a lot of little descriptions of of exactly how things look, and that's kind of important. But I think the biggest difference is really the fact that you're going to get all your information from people talking to you, and you're kind of the detective in a way because you have to determine whether you trust these people. Do you think that person is lying, do you think this person is lying? Um? And the podcasts, you know, kind of there to help guide you through that. Like this person said, you know that you just heard them say this, but it might not be reliable because we've checked and found why, right, And so that can kind of it's kind of like a choose your own adventure. You're the detective, but it's just being beamed directly in your years. I think that. I think some you know, documentaries or video true crime stuff can also have that element to it. But what I what, I think it's different. Like I've been listening to UM the w b R podcasts about UM the Highest at the Gardener Museum, and what I like about that true crime podcast is that it's and the mcnarowan I've been listening to that also, it makes time go by faster. So whereas you have to sit down and decide to watch something and that's gonna be your like what you do for the next hour, like these these podcasts are done so well and the stories are structured in such a way that they're so compelling that they like your train ride becomes shorter, or you know, you're walking the dog, it feels like less of a chore because it's so compelling and you don't know what's going to happen. So the thing that I'm genuinely curious about, and anyone at this table can really answer the question, is the fact that there's so many true crime podcasts now that are out and about UM after serial and whatnot, So what are the subtle things that make these podcasts that we've brought up great? Like? What is it about these in particular? I mean one of the big things is the reporting. It's how how deep did you go? Because I mean, the police did this at some point, right with all of these cases, and as far as I know, every true crime podcast that I've listened to, the police have already done an investigation and come up with a conclusion. So you're gonna have to do more than they did, or at least explain more than they did, in order to have something worth listening to. And that can come in a lot of different ways. It can come from the interviews, or it can come from really solid reporting and going down there and trying to, you know, recreate something that they thought happened to crime. See what see if it works? Yeah. I think also what you said about the little descriptions, I think what's so uh it makes you think about things about how you see things a little bit differently because they obviously can't show you, so you know they'll they'll they'll be these tiny details like the door was mahogany, or like the frayed edge of something like the language, um without it's it's whether it's flowery without being you know, too much or sort of. I think the structure is also huge, like a good podcast versus a great podcast. A good one can tell you a story. A great one will leave you wanting more of that story. I mean it's like it's like anything written. I think, Yeah, and you can really tell I think a lot of about how well to true crime podcast hit, about how it's talked about, like we're gonna hit Cereal again, just because it's the big elephant in the room. And as far as true com podcast, it had podcasts about itself that explained things you might have missed in the podcast. Uh. And so like you know, there's all we have to go with the fall of the Titan things. We have a ton of uh descriptions of things and like slightly extended interviews that we have and even drawings of the crime scene because obviously we can't get the photo from the police. Uh. But yeah, it's it's those little extra bits that you get that kind of can really take it up a notch and that and that will create that that buzz that kind of supersedes the just the listening experience itself. Yeah. Well, I think that's it for us this time. Thank you so much. If you want to get at Darrell Harris, find him at at Underscore Darrell Harris, j A. R. E. L. Harris. All right, Charlotte, I am at The Wilder Things, and I'm at J A. Mosh. I'm Harry Swartout. That's at Harry Swartout on Twitter. Up next, movies. Alright, we've got movies. We're going around sharing our best sports movies from the past year. I'm Harry Swartout, podcast guy at Sports Illustrated. Hey guys, head of Latino Content, co host of Planet Football, Dave Skipione. I'm a social media producer here at Sports Illustrated. I am Ben Baskin. I am a staff writer with the magazine, focusing mostly on the NFL, but also movies. All right, and the first movie we're gonna deal with is the two fifty pound Russian boxer in the Room Creed to Victor Drag, son of Ivan Drag who infamously killed Apollo. Creed appeared today to issue a challenge Adonna's Creed. Don't do this. I ain't got a choice, the same think your father said right here in my hands. Ben Tell us about Creed two. Well, Creed two is the latest iteration in the never ending Rocky franchise. It's forty two years after the original Rocky came out. It's the fourteenth highest grossing franchise of all time, up there with the Superheroes and the anthologies. And after Creed One by Ryan Coogler and Michael B. Jordan's rebooted the franchise in um it was pretty much an inevitability that there would be a sequel, but Creed Too was a very you know worthy sequel. It brings back Van Drago from the Rocky four lore. The movie it kind of does really well what the Creed one set up. It's a very much in the same spirit, the same ethos as the Rocky movies, just based alone on the fact that it is a you know, an underdog story about boxing. But it's a very diff for you know, set up. It's a different culture. It's you know, talking to a different audience and a new generation. Um. And if you liked Creed one, and I'm sure anyone who saw Creed one would like Creed one, I believe Creed Too is is definitely in your wheelhouse and I would definitely recommend people to go see. It has some of the more visceral boxing scenes. They really do a lot of cool stuff with camera angles, but also it's you know, they really have a lot of poignant, sort of emotional scenes as well, and they really spend a lot of time on building that narrative of the family um and sort of the interpersonal dynamics. That is my spiel on on Creed to any. I'll take questions now from the esteemed panel. So as the Rockies progress, they get more ridiculous, bigger, more candy coated. Creed one was kind of in the Rocky one mold, a little bit more contained, a little bit quieter and more introspective. Does Creed too like the original Rocky to kind of like up the any? Does it kind of broaden it out and make it a little bit more crazy? I percent agree with that sort of analysis of the Rocky progression through the years, um, and it worked for a long time in Rocky history. Each Rocky sequel was did better box office wise than its predecessor up until Rocky five, which Rocky fans pretend didn't exist. As you said, Creed one was very much like Rocky one, and that's pretty partly because it's an origin story like Rocky was, it's an inevitability sort of that you have to sort of up the ante. And that was really Stallone's doing for Creed two in the sense that when he passed the you know, he he wrote the original script for the sequel UM after Ryan Coogler couldn't do the movie because of time constraints. UM. And Stallone's big thing in this was he wanted to have a real villain again, Creed didn't really have that real villain. So his idea was, I want a real villain in this, and that's how you get Drag back. So just by the fact that you're gonna bring a von Drago back with his son Victor, you know, you're kind of getting a little bit more into the Rocky sequel world where things get amped up a little bit. Yeah, been aside from the fact that this is an under dug story, it's the African American perspective, and at its score, it's about a Daunis looking for a father figure. Oh well, I'm glad you brought that part up, because you know, self plug alert, I have five thousand words that I wrote about pretty much that exact talk and you guys, it's excellent. It's it really is, and it's that's not a you know, by accident. They did want to make it a very real African American story, and um, Stephen Capel Jr. Who is the director of the Second Creed, very much wanted to take that mantle as well and run with that, which I talked with him at length about. We discussed the fact that you know, he and Michael B. Jordan's and Ryan Coogler and Tessa Thompson have had extensive discussions about how to stay true to you know, their roots and their culture and create a movie that was felt very real for a new audience. Yeah, you know, I haven't actually seen this movie yet. Um, And since I work on social media, what I have noticed is a lot of people calling out the acting performances aside from some of the bigger name actors or some of the people that you thought were going to really deliver. You know, what were some of those surprise performances or were there any acting things that you that kind of stood out that made you really, you know, surprise that these guys are actually like well formed. I think that the guy who played Victor Drago who is UM similar set up to Um Dolph Back years ago, Victor was a boxer in you know, fighting in a German league that had never acted before. He had a lot of power in his performance, and he told me he was actually using some personal memories of you know, some family stuff that he had dealt with in the back of his mind as he acted, which made it kind of you could feel like he kind of felt tormented. UM as a characters who I and and they told me I wouldn't be You shouldn't be surprised if you see Victor Drago come back in the next movie as a sort of apollo creed villain turned friends sort of set up. Don't be surprised. Heard it here first, all right? That was Ben Baskin for Creed to ats in theaters now, Luis miguel is Gara, I what do you have for us? One particular little piece project movie that I saw recently, which is available on Netflix right now, is UM a movie called First Match, An come Up for Wrestling practors. If you're so nosy, no Boys to come cl which is by a director Olivian human Um. It's from you know, it's it's a it's her first feature from the original short that you produced. It was eventually won the Audiences Award at south By Southwest this year, And it's about a teenager and still ungentrified Brownsville in Brooklyn, uh And it's um her unlikely journey into wrestling and high school wrestling and how she goes through all this um sort of tribulations and obstacles in order to really relate to her father, who is an ex convict, leaves prison but doesn't tell her she leaves. You know, she's living in foster homes and they have this meeting just in the street casually, and it's basically the thread of the story is aside from the fact that she goes through this all boys wrestling journey, she's really trying to connect with her father, who eventually ends up trying to get her into um illegal boxing. And you know, there's there, there's those caveats in there, but at its core is about this girl living in Brownsville who's trying to find her way and the acceptance of her father's love. It's not a perfect movie because I think in many ways it's and it's no, it's I don't think there's a faultier through Olivia Newman. I think she does a tremendous job trying to create the storyline, especially from a female perspective. But because um, and I think this is important to say, because Olivia and human herself is not African American. I think that although we see much of the you know, the thread and the and the great use of the storyline within from you know, her struggles with wrestling and her father, um, you know, the it would have been interesting to see sort of a more biographical perspective, you know, in terms of identity. I of course trust your movie judgment, Louise google Is, I am dB heat page. It's amazing, Please don't please do But my que is you know, thirty things high, thirty things deep. If you had to convince somebody maybe he's not necessarily interested to really why they should watch this film, what would you say to that. One of the issues I think with many sports movies is that we get lost in the sort of grandiosity of of the underdog story from the sporting perspective. But this is about the underdog of a human being and what she has to go through. And if anything, to me, I'm just the biggest cheerleader or main characters that are driven by young women of color, and you know, we're seeing that more and more often. But when you have somebody that gives a tremendous performance because the script is not perfect, she just delivers. If you want to see a performance by a young African American actress, this is the one to watch. Really, this movie belongs to Elvia Emmanuel. I think you brought up a really interesting point where you said that the director, Olivia Newman, is white and the characters are African American. I do think that's it is. It does bring up some challenges and there are some times where you know there will be a disconnect there. What made you kind of bring that up? I think that Olivia actually talked about it in a few interviews, and one of the things that she said was, um, how much she related to the main character in terms of, um, you know, living in a male dominated world, trying to especially you know, she's a filmmaker herself, you know, obviously a minority as a female filmmaker, trying to live up to the standards of you know, a sort of patriarchy that already exists amongst so she tried to translate that within this story about this young woman who's who goes into pretty much a real male dominated sport and try to, you know, do something out of it. How did you stumble upon this? Did you find it on Netflix? Do you go out and seek it? Did somebody just say hey, you should see this? Yeah? You know, it's a good question actually, because you know, what's what. I used to coach high school soccer and I'm still friends with a lot of high school coaches, um and one of them there, um significant other, is a wrestling coach, and she's actually an African American woman, and she taught me to to to check this out, just because you know, she knows that I'm in the sports industry. I would never have like noticed it. Like you said, Harry, you know, we get lost in this maze of Netflix projects that you just don't know where to go. Uh. And you know, I pay attention to south By Southwest every year. I'd like to see what's going on. But this year, I gotta say, I admit that I lost my track with it. But when I found that that it was Olivia Newman doing it and they won the south By Southwest Alians Award, and it was sort of selected via Netflix distribution. I was intrigued. There's always gonna be an obstacle, I think when the project just specifically goes through Netflix and then it gets lost in this mace of of you know, you're not gonna see it, you know, So it's very difficult to try and market this. But that's how I found it, and it was tremendous. Luis Miguel for First Match that's available on Netflix right now, get what he got? Alright, my movie, and I might butcher the title. I'm really glad Louise is here. It's an l setimo dea, which is translates to on the seventh Day's deal. I need everyone on Sunday. I have a private party, have to runch on Sunday. These are important people coming in here. I need all hands on deck. Thanks Jo, very good, my friend. That was excellent. Thank you. Uh. And this is one of my favorite movies of the year, to be honest with you, um uh. It's a story about um. It actually was released in two thousand seventeen, but it came to American two thousand eighteen, so kind of is one of those ones that won some awards and got some notoriety and um The way I stumbled upon it was my girlfriend said, Hey, you like soccer, Let's go to the soccer movie. They filmed it in Brooklyn. You were going to really like it, um, And we went to the theater and we saw it. And what's unique about it is it's a story about UM Mexican immigrants, undocumented Mexican immigrants, who form a soccer team and play once a week on Sunday. Now, a lot of these guys work six days a week. They have multiple jobs, their street vendors, their delivery men, and they come together on Sunday to play a soccer match and basically that's their one escape from the harshness of being an undocumented immigrant in America. And the great part about the movie is it's not just the the soccer that's filmed. I mean, that's awesome to watch too. It's watching this team of guys come together and really support each other. UM. The struggles that they go through our real And what's unique about it from my perspective is I see these people every day when I walk the streets of New York City, and sometimes you just see people and you sort of just assume this is the guy delivering met pizza. This is the guy doing this. I wonder what they're doing with their real lives, you know, what their real life is like. UM. This movie was really really touching in the fact in the sense that, um, the decision comes down to this, this this best player on their team. UM. Jose is the definitely the best player, and they need him to play in the final. Their team actually makes the finals, and it's the biggest match of the season, obviously, but Jose has um something else on his mind. He's boss, who's pretty straightforward UM and owns a restaurant. Uh. It tells him it's all hands on deck and he needs him to work on Sunday, which is his one day off, And basically the decision comes down to it's either my job or I'm going to go play this game with my friends. It's might one escape. And it's also waited by the fact that Jose's wife is in Mexico and she he's trying to bring her into America and the Boss is sort of vaguely promised that he could help long you know, help with that process. So the struggle really becomes worre do you how do you get this guy to be in two places at once. What I ended up learning throughout the film was the struggle of undocumented immigrants is very very real. The decisions to do things that we might take for granted every day, They are more waited for them than anybody that I know. And I was just moved by the by the film. One of the things that is tough in a movie where like this one, there's you know, a certain amount of soccer that needs to be shown, in a certain amount of soccer that you have to have versus the you know, the rest of the kind of the actual plot moving elements. Was there any shorthand that they used to show how much soccer mentu and without necessarily having to show him being playing soccer all the time. Yeah, I mean, I think that's the greatest part about the movie too, is the cinematography. Really gets hyped up about this film. Jim McKay is the director and the cinematography, and it really it cuts back and forth from soccer to you know, the streets of Brooklyn. It was filmed in Brooklyn. It takes place in six days, so the story is very short in terms of you're not going you know, over years and years of film. It's basically just a six day story, and you're you're getting snippets of soccer, you're getting snippets of people of It really does feel like if you've ever played on a sporting team before you get that. I'm interested actually to hear your thoughts on what you thought, specifically on how McKay sort of tells the story. Is it a a movie that's trying to get you to empathize to the point where it's a victimized situation, or is it be a place a story where you know this is something like you said, that many don't know and it's really about you know, the protagonist who's played by this kid, um, you know, who's trying to make this decision. Yeah, I didn't get that sense of it, and I mean I thought McKay did a great job of that. I mean, what's what's interesting about this film is he took all non actors. These are people that live in Brooklyn, Mexican actors, Latino actors that live in Brooklyn, and he doesn't he doesn't play the victim card as much. I think that's what's unique about I think what's what's cool is that everybody can kind of put themselves in this situation, even if you're not an undocumented immigrant. You know, sometimes you want to do something, you want to you have a big match with a friend or something, you have something going on that you want to go and see or do, and your boss says, hey, something just came up. It's your career or it's your fun and your family and whatever. And you you know, a lot of us can make those decisions. Just I'll be okay. I have savings in the bank, I have this and that these guys don't. And um, I didn't get the sense that he was he was creating like this victim sensation around it. It It was more of just this is real life. So I'm also glad you put this movie into my mind. I know it existed. But I I'm a big soccer fan, and what I've always sort of thought when and I might be completely off here, but I do believe that there's something connected to the fact that there as a paucity of soccer movies in this country. Football has you know, remember the Titans. It has a given Sunday, there's football movies. Baseball has way too many movies. A Field of Dreams in Baull Durham and boxing has a million movies, from Rocky to um Raging Bowl, every you know, a lot of all these things. All these sports have movies where soccer has, you know, bend it like Beckham and the Will Farrell movie Kicking and Screaming, which by the way, is an underrated Will Farrell movie. But but I'm interested, and do you think this movie will work getting fans that maybe don't appreciate soccer, don't think about soccer to watch the movie and say, hey, you know, this is an interesting sport or maybe I'll give it a chance. Do you think it has any chance of of serving that role? Yeah, I know. You know, for me, I'm glad you kind of brought that up because I was thinking of the movie Green Street Hooligans when I saw that. I know that kind of gets you know, people will make fun of that quite a bit, like that movie a lot. I do like that movie, and because it was I came from the same boat as you where I'm I love. You know, I didn't really know much about about soccer in terms of, like you know, overseas, and that gave me this the sense of what soccer really means, not just players, but two fans themselves and the communities around it, and and really what the sport galvanizes people to do, um, whether good or bad. And I think if you go to this movie, if you if you go in with an open mind and you kind of sit down and you just watch it for what it is. The story is so captivating that the story will compel you to keep watching. But the soccer in and of itself is genuine, Like the filming of the soccer, the way the players talk to each other, the way they interact, um, it definitely does give you a sense of like, oh, here this is what soccer in these little sub communities in America is. Like, Um, I was fortunate enough to see some of this when I lived in San Francisco and uh, when I was working there. And you know, you see these guys every Sunday or or or Saturday playing these leagues scrimmage games and you or pick up games, and you wonder, you know, how do they form these teams? Where did these guys come from? You know, can I actually play with them? Or how how it actually gets gets too you know, an actual match. Um. So if you're interested in how that story plays out, they do a great job of showing you that as well. By the way, side note, I'm very happy to hear that band Baskin is a huge soccer fan, like I never even knew that. That's amazing. So I'm going to give you a list of soccer movies to watch and then you're gonna tell me what you think. I love. I love finding out all these things that Baskets are huge soccer fan. I love some soccer. Don't just share with bask and tweet that out. People need to know just now. Necessarily we got it, we got we gotta get it out everyone. I want everyone in America on the soccer bandwagon because I've already predicted six USA World Cup. It's on the home turf for taking it home. Some some hot takes on right. That was Dave's Skip Skippy one with an el septimoda. I have a movie that, like all the movies that we've talked about before, honestly, there's not a ton of the sport in it. It's not made up of the sport, but it is. It's so important. It's Minding the Gap, which is a documentary by Bing Lou. Felt like I didn't fit in with my family. My parents ran this very controlling house. I ran away a lot skateboarding. He's more of a family than my family. But it is amazing compiled twelve years of footage and basically this kid being is a skater and he has his skater friends, and he films them from when they were just kids, right, kind of teenagers dicking around skating, uh, to where they are later in life. And it's not like a seven up kind of thing where you can checking on these people every few years and you're like, oh, what do you do now I'm an account or whatever. That's not really what it's like. It kind of focuses on on abuse, on different kinds of abuse. UM, there's substance abuse. One of the characters, Zack Mulligan, who is one of the main UH kids that he films, UM, he is kind of an alcoholic and you get to see that evolved throughout the piece. You also get to UH see him deal with he may or may not have have hit his wife and the UH. Another character Kier Johnson UH. He has a difficult relationship with his father, who he loved but did discipline him physically, and then of course being his mother had his stepfather abused both him and his mother, and so the skating, the skateboarding, the kind of the gap that mining the Gap alludes to, the gapping of skateboarding is their release. It's what they do for freedom. And as far as we we haven't actually talked a lot about how um the sports are necessarily like film because you know, obviously it's there's more important things to go on. But one of the things I absolutely love in this film, and this is for all you millennial kids grew up on Tony Hawk and all that stuff. The skating is fabulous, but it's not the kind of stuff that you're gonna see in the skate videos where you you know, you have a low canted shot on the fish eye lands down the bottom of some stairs and a guy bust a crazy verial heel flip and maybe kisses at the rail. That's not what this is. This is a beautiful tracking shot because Bing is a skateboarder too, so he's following them on a skateboard. They last an amount of time, which I thought find a little bit insane because they have to not fall for that amount of time. They go all over the town of Rockford, Illinois, which is a kind of struggling economic town, which again leads to some of the other things in the piece. But the streets are empty, there's no one ever there, and all they do is this, these beautiful tracking shots of they'll allie up curbs, they'll do wall rides, they'll do you know, grind tricks. They will do flips, like flip tricks, not full flips, although that would be impressive. The skating is so lovingly filmed that you understand why it makes them feel free. You understand why it makes them feel like they have control, which is something that almost none of them have. So in ninety three minutes, you're gonna learn about these kids, understand all of the things that they're doing, see them, maybe not agree with why they're doing them, but you understand all of what's happening. And then you really get by the end of it why skating is so important to them and why as the film goes on, it actually the film becomes a kind of Catharsis that skating was for them early and they get a little bit more introspective and they start, you know, to kind of feel out a little bit about themselves. And so I cannot speak highly enough of this movie. I loved it. Any questions, I will um say that this you know sounded the topics there sound very heavy, But I do like to go into a movie knowing what I'm getting myself into, um in terms of how I'm going to come away feeling where is this going to leave viewers at the end of it? So there there are. It does follow three different people, and I would say in a general sense, two of them are are positive they will leave you feeling good about where that person is going. And one of them is neutral but had a negative slant throughout. So it ends kind of on a on a little bit of a high note, but it was more to you know, a little bit depressing throughout. That being said, they do a really smart job of you know, and this is the luxury that this kind of documentary has, where at the end they do the classic Zach is now this and he does that, and you know that they all seem to be at least getting better and understanding, honestly understanding what they want to do and how to do it. So I think that will kind of set the mood for you. It's not sad, You're not gonna be like, oh Boomer, but there's there. You're right, there are a lot of heavy themes. I think, I think you feel pretty good. Honestly, That's what I needed to hear, because you know, I need to know those things. If I go into a movie and I'm I'm expecting to feel good at the end, and then I am just ripped the pieces at the end, I'm just I feel cheated, especially this time with a season right exactly. Um So I'm very intrigued by this. I definitely, I'm very interested because the thing that I want to know is how much of a role does the town play in the in the in the movie. I'm imagine thing that the town itself is a big character in this movie, definitely, And that's I was That's what I was going to say. He took the words out of my mouth, that the town really is a character. And not only do you get it in the skating shots where the town is just empty in the middle of the day, but also there's you know, a bunch of of these scenes in the in the movie where they will have uh borrowed sound from news reports saying that jobs in Rockford have you know, drastically declined, and one of the characters tries to start a skate park. He builds it with his like he rents the space, he builds it, and then his business partner and bezels all the money and leaves and so it's that kind of you know, and now it's like an empty storefront among empty storefronts. And so well, there you go, Ben, you know now that that I mean, that's that's something that's like the biggest thing in the middle. Like I said, it gets better from there. So I'm okay within the middle, you know, it's it's really at the end, it's what I'm what I leave with is really what I need to know. But yeah, so I think the town is really important, and you know, it's it's it's a standing for any town in kind of Middle America, any struggling rust belt kind of place. You know, what I've noticed in a lot of documentaries is filmmakers, especially when they're it's a documentary about their story. Um uh, they attempt to make themselves sort of invisible within that. Is it one of these things where he's a present character and he and you're getting the sense that, um, he's a part of this story, or is it one of these things where he's telling this story from like an outsider perspective, and you're not really getting the sense that he's actually a part of it. He's actually a bigger part of this story than it seems at the very beginning, because he starts with introducing the other two characters. So there's a like i'd say it, twenty minute chunk where he's not really there, but he actually does do He is a big part that he has. People mostly talk about him because of course he's behind the camera, but there are scenes where they do shoot him. And in fact, when he's interviewing his mom, which is really raw interview, they have they have a reversion on him, which is not how most of the movie is film with the movie is single camera, and they have this reverse shot on him, and it's really they you know, he was not afraid to put his own emotion in this film. You can tell that it's hard, not just for his mom, but also for him. He does a lot of you know, uh, putting his hands on his face and really and you can tell he's struggling with it. Um. And then of course there's the archival footage like the I mean not archival obviously, but like the footage that he shot when they were all a young kids, and he's in that a lot. But he's you feel him as a character, and he's really important to how the other characters interact with everything from skating to you know, just him being in the room slightly changes what they do. So he's he's not necessarily on screen as much as the other guys are, but he's a super important character and you do get a feel of who he's like, what he's doing, and why he's important to the story. Anyway, that will be it for us on this episode. I'm going to tell you all how to reach these people on social media. I'm at Harry swart Out on Twitter. Mine a long one. I'm at l M E C H E g A r A Y. I'm sorry, I have a Spanish last name, all right, so I'm not really gonna apologize that much. And I mean, if you can't get it, just google it. At Dave SKIPIONI you can be one of my five d followers. And Ben, we we need yours because Louis is going to tweet all of those soccer movies at you. I am Ben Underscore Baskin b A S K I N not as long as Luise's but you know, follow us all. Thanks guys, and when we come back, we're hitting the books. All right, let's dive into books. Around the table, we have Ben Titlebaum, who's the s I Now showrunner. Ben. Hello, Harry, thanks for being here, pleasure to have you. I am also joined by Jamie Losanti, the special projects editor here at SI. Hi, Harry, how you doing great? And Stanley k s I S News director. Thanks for having me on, Harry, and he's a noted Arsenal fan wearing a real spiffy shirt today. So let's start off with Ben, Ben, what have you given this today? I have given you a Basketball and other Things by Say Serrano. It is maybe the best book ever written by anybody in the history of the English language. Yes, that is hyperbole, but that is one thing. Shade dabbles in. Just so beautifully basketball, especially in the age of the Internet. It's just so fun, the personalities we get, the way the players interact with fans, the debates that are generated. And this book basically takes everything that you love about basketball debate and condenses it into a very fun format, a very beautiful format. They're awesome illustrations, awesome pictures. If you love footnotes like I do, They're like dozens of absurdly entertaining footnotes, which are great because I want to know, oh, but how did we get that piece of information? Or I kind of want to go on a tangent, and it just it gives all of that to me. It's like having all the inane hoops adjacent conversations that you have with your basketball loving friends, only if those friends were like the funniest people on earth and had the deepest reservoirs of knowledge. So that's why I love it all. Right now, I've I've read basketball and other things. I really enjoyed it too. But the way I was turned on it is I follow Sha Serronto, the author of the book on all the social media's. He's, as you said, a very funny guy, but he's kind of a little bit of a cult of personality type of guy. A lot of his people like Ride for the f O, h Army and all that stuff that he's kind of himself established. Would people who haven't necessarily, you know, joined his cult like this book as much as say I did? You know? How they say there's a reason cliches or cliche because it's true. I kind of believe that with some cult of personality people in the car and age, there's a reason they get tons of followers, and when you get exposed to them, it's sort of hard not to want to bask in their glow. I think she is like that. And the best thing about the book is there something for everyone. You don't need to read it in chronological order. You can skip complete chapters that you have no interest in it. And because you don't need to crank it out in one sitting or chronologically great for the coffee table, the bedside of the subway, and for picking up again and again. What do you think basketball is the most fun sport? I think And we talked about the reason why basketball players have higher Q scores than any other athletes in the world. You know, and there's all the reasons we've heard before. Part of it is that you can see all their faces. You can get up close and personal. Basketball is the type of sport where they're they're five men. It both engenders teamwork but also individuality in a way that allows personal personalities to grow on and off the court. If you had to say, for for a running back, not only what is their style or personality on the field, but off it's often hard to get. You just don't get time with someone like that, you know, it for not just NBA All Stars, but all sorts of random characters in the league. The one thing that struck me, I'm flipping through this book and it just looks besides illustrations, it definitely looks like all over the place, there's like charts and as you said, like footnotes, and there's like seven different fonts. It's like very crazy. Do you feel like it helped the book? Do you feel like more books should be written in this format? Like it? It feels a little jarring for someone who's used to when going to talk about like a very traditional novel. Sure, part of it is sort of the id of people in the Internet age. Part of it is maybe just the way I process things. But like, I'm a jump around her, and I could see why for some people who like to stick to the traditional narrative format it could be a little bit chaotic, But I think we're all sort of used to that a little bit in the modern age, and it's interesting to transpose what we often see in technology onto the format of a book. But to me, I think it works for sure, and it works for basketball too, which is, as you're saying, super fun. All right. So that was entitle bomb recommending basketball and other things by Shas Serrano. Next we got Jamie, what do you have for us? All right? So, as I said, I read something. This is completely different than Ben's book. It is called When the Men Were Gone by Marjorie Harrell Lewis Um and it is about kind of the drama of high school football in Texas, which we all know Friday night lights in that state is just super crazy. And it is actually based on a true story. It is set in the World War Two era, and it's about a teacher named Tayleene Wilson who was a real person in this in this era, and she basically, while all of the men over eighteen under age forty five are being sent off to war, Taylean has the knowledge and she's been playing football and with her father and kind of following the game for so long, and she has the skill and ability to step in as a coach. But because of the time period and because she's a woman, you know, she faces a lot of ridicule and a lot of pushback in trying to become the head coach of the team. And so Marjorie takes her own spin on it. Because it is based on a true story, it's not the true story, but she kind of faces opposition and she really has to fight against all these things. It's just a really cool story about football, a powerful woman and how um, you know, in this World War two era things are kind of coming together. So you said it was based on a true story, but it's not like the it's not the true story itself. What does the fictionalization add to the story. What what makes it better as a historical fiction as opposed to just a nonfiction? Right? So I actually spoke with Marjorie and asked her about how she discovered the story and everything. And she did a ton of research into She found newspaper articles and um journals and pieces of information. Because Taylan was a teacher, there was kind of a lot to be found on her um, but there was not enough for her to tie together every piece of information and really tell like the full true story. So she took a lot of license in adding characters. She makes the characters come to life and you really feel like you're in that time period. Um. She does a good job of setting the scene. Um, there's a lot of things that really take you back to, uh, you know, how cars were, how the role of a woman, you know, what the household was like, what schools were like, um, and really most importantly, what the impact of the war on the city and on a town and on you know, high school students was. What was it like reading this book in you know, this at this moment where um, women have sort of found this renewed political and social cloud and the Me Too movement and everything like that, Whether you saw similar themes that we've seen over the last few years, um in this novel, which sounds really interesting, definitely. Yeah, So it was definitely a reminder of what life was like for women back in the nineteen forties and nineteen fifties and the things they faced because they weren't equal to men, which, as you said, is just been magnified even more today, Um, but back then it was that much worse. Her husband, Tailean's husband and in the novel is very supportive and he's one of the key reasons why she is able to do what she does. And for me, Taylan is an insanely powerful woman in the story, and so it was great to see her balance her role. You know, throughout this whole novel, she actually still does everything she's supposed to do in terms of making dinner for her husband and maintaining the household and being a teacher and kind of doing all the things that she needs to do in her role in her real job. Um. So it was it was cool to see a powerful woman, um, and see her split both sides of of you know, going against but then also going with what she is supposed to do as a woman in that era. I read a lot of non sports related fiction, and I read a lot of sports nonfiction, and I don't really read stuff like this, which is a fictionalized account. Do you think that's sort of a blind spot in US sports peop well and what we consume. Definitely. I read a lot of books that come across my desk, and a lot of them are rooted in in facts. You know, it's a story about the greatest quarterbacks, and I think, you know, those are great. But this was awesome just because it read like a novel. It was an easy read, it was quick, um, and it was it was character driven and I think, um, you know, she was able to take some license and make those people come to life, whereas you know, maybe in real life some people aren't as exciting or aren't as drama filled. So um, yeah, it was cool. I think we should definitely try and get some more books like this come across our way. All right. So that was Jamie Losanti with When the Men Were Gone by Marjorie Harrera Lewis Stanley, What you got for us? Yeah, My favorite sports book of the year was a nonfiction book by Mark Liebovitch. She's one of my favorite politics writers. You guys are probably familiar with him. He wrote this book about the NFL called Big Game, the NFL in Dangerous Times, and I found this book absolutely fascinating. Um, first of all, leave Avitch. A few years ago he wrote this book called This Town, which was about Washington, d C. And it basically eviscerated the place. He basically took the same approach to the NFL where he really sort of chronicled the behind the scenes and sort of the big show behind the NFL. And let me explain what I mean by that. Basically, he really took on the NFL owners as his subjects. It's really a book about how power works and how sort of the NFL deals with various crises. It's fascinating, it's hilarious. His descriptions of NFL owners are very irreverent. For example, he calls Woody Johnson of the Jets. He says he's like an overgrown third grader who collects toy trains and rotten quarterbacks. He kind of just brings them down to pay. He also got wasted with Jerry Jones on the Cowboys team bus at one point and passed out. So, I mean, who has the thing that I want to know is I'm a fan of NFL foot ball, the product on the field, not so much a fan of the NFL the kind of the shield and the giant megalith behind it. If I read this book, well i hate the NFL more? Or will it kind of humanize it for me? How am I going to feel about the NFL after I'm done? I feel like it might be a little bit of both, to be honest, which I know is a weird answer. It's not like a hit book sort of, it's not a hit piece, but it definitely doesn't make the owners or the commissioner look necessarily good. It just makes them look a little bit more incompetent. I think he's basically making fun of everyone, and most people seem to take it in stride. You know. He makes fun of the media, the schefters of the world, who he calls nuggets seekers because they you know, they try to you know, get their prize nuggets for Twitter, um, etcetera. And he says that the NFL resembles a swamp, which sounds pretty familiar for a political writer. But the whole book is littered with those sort of little quips and um, you know, fun observations. He's he's very good at that. I'm curious because you know, NFL not for long. Is there anything at the end or throughout the book that, um he says that we should look out for that's going to happen to the NFL. Or is there some sort of conclusion that he comes to that you know it Maybe don't want to spoil the book, but I'm great question. Uh well, yeah, I mean a bit. I mean he talks a lot about basically, you know, the title of the book is the NFL and Dangerous Times, and it definitely the book is about all these powerful people, the league's power brokers, whether it's Goodell, Jerry Jones, uh, you know, powerful players like Tom Brady, etcetera, and sort of like how they're dealing with this cloud of crises that's sort of hanging over the league, this sort of um, you know what feels often like an existential threat to football. But I think the conclusion is also that we're all addicted to this game and the league is more popular than ever. And he calls it I don't know if I can curse on this thing, but he called is the league a beautiful ship show of a league? And then I feel like that really is emblematic of the entire book. But I think the parallels are similar to this town his book about d C and that both like are you know, have all this money, power, etcetera. But you know, maybe we're in some sort of long term to climb, But I think football is going to remain popular for a while. Is there anyone in there that comes off surprisingly well, like, Oh, I didn't realize that person was actually a good guy. I don't know exactly. I mean, it is a lot of the book is dedicated to the Patriots, um, and I'm not a Patriots fan, And I think I don't know if any of us in this room or Patriots. Um, I know Jamie's not the exact opposite. I'm a Dolphins fan. We got a lot of the A f C s represented here, So the Patriots make up a lot of the book, and I don't think that that should be a turn off. I think he both would still really enjoy it, and it might, dare I say, even humanize the Patriots a little bit. It focuses a lot. I know Brady Belichicken Craft are definitely a focus. He goes to a couple of their Super Bowl games, and it honestly made me feel a little bit more inclined to like Craft and Brady. Some of the owners I felt a little bit more inclined to like after reading it. They're really just like, you know, rich old white guys. For the most part. That was Stanley K for Big Game. Mark Leavich. So, I have a book that is incredibly self explanatory in the title. It is the comic book story of professional wrestling, and it is just as bombastic as you want a professional wrestling comic book to be. It is huge. It's like just talking about the size of the book. It is relatively large. It has beautiful candy colored giant muscular men all throughout. It's a really fascinating art style. It's very kind of pop comic. It has these kind of classic comic washes, these explosion kind of things, and so it's everything you want in a comic as far as the look is concerned. But it also is full of great information about the history of pro wrestling, which I did not know anything about going into it. Uh, it's less word bubble, so it's not going to be like all so if you it's gonna have you know, kind of almost like a and this is gonna sound bad, but like a textbook quality. It has a lot of explainers in it, right, so it'll explain like the beginning of pro wrestling was carnivals, Right. You had your big strong man and they would have contest to see you could beat him in the contest of strength and who could out wrestle them, and they, by the way, they were always fixed. One thing that the comic book history of professional wrestling is very clear on always fixed, always has been fixed. Never a real sport, but it is the one true sport because what makes a sport even better is being scripted, So it definitely deals with how it's what we would call stage, but how that makes it better to watch, which I think makes sense, right, Why have a boring game when you can have a good game. It goes all the way through from the carnival origins, like I said, with like Martin Farmer Brown, who uh as I learned as along with being a wrestling and early wrestling adopter, also had a carnival side show act where he was dropped six feet and hung by the neck while whistling Yankee Doodle. So there's that for you. It goes through the territorial times with the National Wrestling Association, which was from the nineteen eighties, and that's kind of like every little region had their own professional wrestling circuit. Uh. It goes right up through you know, the modern era and the Attitude era and all the things that if you grew up loving wrestling in the nineties and you love the rock and you you know that's your thing, there's tons on that too. Um. Each section ends with a great explainer, So, like I said, not necessarily a wrestling person, but there's a great little help old sheet at the end of chapter two where it explains all of the terminology they're using. What is k fabe, what is getting something over on somebody? What is a jobber? Right, so that when they're talking about it later on, you understand what they're actually saying in a more important kind of way. It also is an unbiased history because at the end it has a very recent thing about the CTE problems that a lot of former wrestlers are having. So it is a beautiful, smart, and really detailed but still at the same time being fun look at the entire history of professional wrestling, and I highly recommend it. So full disclosure, I'm not really a wrestling fan, and I'm not really a comic book fan, so why should someone like me be interested in this book? So I think one of the things that the book does so well is make sure that even if you don't care about the outcomes of wrestling matches and who the stars are, you can see the phenomena of what is truly like an American sport evolve throughout time and how it mirrors in a lot of ways, um, what business was going on too, because you've got you know, kind of like small mom and pop organizations that lead to these giant conglomerates like w cw ww E slash w WF. So you can find these kind of through lines all the way. When you were talking, I noticed a lot of through lines between uh, the NFL and wrestling. Uh. And one of the things Lebovitch talks about in Big Game is sort of how all of these um sideshow controversies like to flake gate are still entertainment. They still serve to entertain so even if they're quote unquote bad, it's still like basically all part of the spectacle. Did you notice a lot of similarities between the NFL, which I know you're a fan of, and pro wrestling and their evolution and sort of the whole spectacle of it. Oh yeah, So I'm actually a defunct sports league historian as well, So not just the NFL, but all of the leagues, the USFL, the w FL that have come before it. And you have a lot of those kind of same interplays in wrestling. So, like I was saying, w C W and w w E slash F UH from now, I'm just gonna call it w w E. They were rival leagues and they would steal players, in this case wrestlers, and that kind of had this kind of inverse effect is what you would think, even though they're getting these talents, much like say the WFL did when they poached Larry Zonka from the NFL, they kind of overplayed their hand. They overspent, which allowed the w w E to kind of get and do new things and find new wrestlers and pull them up create new stars for cheaper. But yeah, if if you're into like off the field drama, there's no short I like Ben, am not a huge wrestling wrestling fan, but I wanted to ask you about the slang. Assuming that most of the slang and the words and the phrases being used in the book are similar from that time period and from that place, can you give us kind of a few that maybe we should know or that are kind of really interesting. Um, I'm I'm curious. Sure. So, I think the biggest kind of carnival one is to get someone something over on somebody. In this case, it would be the audience. So in a carnival, uh, if you are showing a you know, a fake mermaid that you have cobbled together from taxidermy parts, but the audience believes that you have gotten it over on them. But I also love a jobber is one of my favorite uh in there also, and that's somebody whose job is to lose, you do, and it's called doing your job. So when you are wrestling, there's a predetermined winner and a predeterminal loser. The path how they get that not always laid out perfectly all the way through, but there's somebody who's designated to lose. And usually it's kind of the same people again and again and again. You have your stars that win a lot, and you know sometimes they'll lose for you know, rematch purposes. But I always just I feel, I feel they're people who root for the underdogs, will love the jobbers who go out there and valiantly get their butts whooped all the time. So that's what we have for today. If you want to talk to Ben Title Obama, you can find him on Twitter at at Ben Title Now. Stanley k is on Twitter at Citizen Underscore K, and Jamie's on Twitter at j D. Let's not I'm Harry Swartout. That's at Harry swart Out on Twitter. And that's it for this one, guys. I hope you found some sports pop culture that you can enjoy this holiday season. Thank you so much, everybody, do you know what? Out The Locked On podcast Network, the number one daily sports podcast network. 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