Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About, the Stellar podcast. I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your host, and every week I sit down with some of the biggest names in the country. Now, if you cast your mind back to the early to mid two thousands, you will very likely remember being bombarded by an onslaught of quote unquote hot young women doing all manner of quote unquote hot things. Paris Hilton, the Cole Richie, the Pussycat Dolls, Britney Spears. Being hot became a commodity, and Lucinda Price, like a lot of Australian women who grew up in that era, was paying very close attention. As a teenager, she decided that hot was all she ever wanted to be. She even had her first cosmetic surgery procedure when she was seventeen.

Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About, the Stellar podcast. I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your host, and every week I sit down with some of the biggest names in the country. Now, if you cast your mind back to the early to mid two thousands, you will very likely remember being bombarded by an onslaught of quote unquote hot young women doing all manner of quote unquote hot things. Paris Hilton, the Cole Richie, the Pussycat Dolls, Britney Spears. Being hot became a commodity, and Lucinda Price, like a lot of Australian women who grew up in that era, was paying very close attention. As a teenager, she decided that hot was all she ever wanted to be. She even had her first cosmetic surgery procedure when she was seventeen.

And so I would say the no, I don't regret, I love it, but the breast implants.

And so I would say the no, I don't regret, I love it, but the breast implants.

You might know Lucinda Price better as Froomes, the well known writer, comedian and presenter. Now she's written her first book, All I Ever Wanted Was to Be Hot, part memoir and part social commentary that dives into why pop culture makes women feel so bad about their bodies. On today's episode is Something to Talk About. Lucinda aka Froomes aka through Me joins me to discuss her experience of developing and then recovering from an eating disorder, and to mol over everything from the toxic impact of pop culture to the current obsession with weight loss injections before we begin. Since this conversation will touch upon the subject of eating disorders, you can find a link in our show notes if you or someone that you know needs help. Lucinda Price, Welcome to the Stellar Podcast Something to Talk About.

You might know Lucinda Price better as Froomes, the well known writer, comedian and presenter. Now she's written her first book, All I Ever Wanted Was to Be Hot, part memoir and part social commentary that dives into why pop culture makes women feel so bad about their bodies. On today's episode is Something to Talk About. Lucinda aka Froomes aka through Me joins me to discuss her experience of developing and then recovering from an eating disorder, and to mol over everything from the toxic impact of pop culture to the current obsession with weight loss injections before we begin. Since this conversation will touch upon the subject of eating disorders, you can find a link in our show notes if you or someone that you know needs help. Lucinda Price, Welcome to the Stellar Podcast Something to Talk About.

Thank you, Sarah.

Thank you, Sarah.

I'm excited you were about to release your debut book. In fact, it is available as of this week. All I ever wanted was to be hot. Great title, and I want to talk to you a lot more about that. The author credit is Lucinda Price aka Froomes and you're obviously very well known by Frooms. It's a social media handle. What should I call you in our chat today? Is it Lucinda? Is it Frooms?

I'm excited you were about to release your debut book. In fact, it is available as of this week. All I ever wanted was to be hot. Great title, and I want to talk to you a lot more about that. The author credit is Lucinda Price aka Froomes and you're obviously very well known by Frooms. It's a social media handle. What should I call you in our chat today? Is it Lucinda? Is it Frooms?

Oh?

Oh?

Well, I chose Li Cinder Price for the book because it is more serious, I guess, but I think you can call me through me through Me, Okay, all right, it's like French like you take the s off sometimes.

Well, I chose Li Cinder Price for the book because it is more serious, I guess, but I think you can call me through me through Me, Okay, all right, it's like French like you take the s off sometimes.

I like it.

I like it.

You're in your late twenties now, your debut book coming out. As you say, the subject matter is serious. Is there a feeling that you're entering a new era of your career with the release of this book and potentially bringing Lucinda Price as a professional byline into the mix.

You're in your late twenties now, your debut book coming out. As you say, the subject matter is serious. Is there a feeling that you're entering a new era of your career with the release of this book and potentially bringing Lucinda Price as a professional byline into the mix.

Yes, it feels like a massive step up and step for I post on LinkedIn all the time, so if anyone listening loves LinkedIn, I use it as like my little dumping ground under listening to Price, so it feels like something. Yeah, it definitely feels like a step up, and that's like quite scary to me because it is kind of like a different medium. So definitely, while writing it, there was like a lot of tossing and turning and feeling like, oh, is this a mistake because I quite like I think for many years of my career, I liked like I had this idea that I was on Enigma and that I was kind of like, you know, could just do whatever I want and kind of like not share parts of myself. But I think with the book, I was drawn to the medium because you know, it's how many pages. Let's have a look three hundred and something pages, so you can give as much context as you like for something that is more nuanced, you know, whereas if I go on Instagram, I can't really talk about the themes in however many characters.

Yes, it feels like a massive step up and step for I post on LinkedIn all the time, so if anyone listening loves LinkedIn, I use it as like my little dumping ground under listening to Price, so it feels like something. Yeah, it definitely feels like a step up, and that's like quite scary to me because it is kind of like a different medium. So definitely, while writing it, there was like a lot of tossing and turning and feeling like, oh, is this a mistake because I quite like I think for many years of my career, I liked like I had this idea that I was on Enigma and that I was kind of like, you know, could just do whatever I want and kind of like not share parts of myself. But I think with the book, I was drawn to the medium because you know, it's how many pages. Let's have a look three hundred and something pages, so you can give as much context as you like for something that is more nuanced, you know, whereas if I go on Instagram, I can't really talk about the themes in however many characters.

There is a lot of nuance in this book and a lot of complexity. It is all I ever wanted was to be hot. It's about growing up, largely in the early millennium, interwoven with your personal experiences about the damaging media landscape that has scrutinized women's bodies. As I had actually ordered my copy on audiobook long before I knew that you were coming into the studio. So I've read the hard copy and it will be dropping into my audio library this week. The word hot, of course, it's such an emotive word, and it's so laden with social expectations. There's a part in the book where you write, chasing and prioritizing hotness is a drive that feels like second nature to me. Given the pursuit of hotness was such a central tenet of your life for so long, What does the word mean to you?

There is a lot of nuance in this book and a lot of complexity. It is all I ever wanted was to be hot. It's about growing up, largely in the early millennium, interwoven with your personal experiences about the damaging media landscape that has scrutinized women's bodies. As I had actually ordered my copy on audiobook long before I knew that you were coming into the studio. So I've read the hard copy and it will be dropping into my audio library this week. The word hot, of course, it's such an emotive word, and it's so laden with social expectations. There's a part in the book where you write, chasing and prioritizing hotness is a drive that feels like second nature to me. Given the pursuit of hotness was such a central tenet of your life for so long, What does the word mean to you?

Yes, maybe I can readwind and tell you why I chose the title in the first place. And I talk about this in kind of like the prologue of book. But it was originally called Perfect Candidate, which looking back, was like, I think it was so not right, and I think I'd be going on a different kind of like press to her if it was still that. I guess I came up with the title because every time I wrote a chapter, I was like, where am I bringing this back to? Like what was like you think of yourself kind of as a character when you're writing a book like this, like what did this person? Like? Keep coming back to what did I believe in? And I literally wrote out this sentence all ever wanted us to be hot? And I was like, that is exactly what it is. And I chose the word hot because it does have that very two thousands connotation, like I think we use that word more like Paris Hilton, that's hot, and I think that like wanting to be hot back then was it was scrutinized, like I think if you're a woman and you wanted to be hot, you know, it was like there was connotations of like being a slut or being vain or this or that. Where it's very interesting now we're seeing this word kind of be reclaimed. I still meet it in the early two thousands way because I think, like, as a young girl, I wanted to be seen as hot, but also didn't want to be wanted to act like I wasn't trying, So I think, yeah, all I ever wanted is to be hot. It's also looking at power, and you know, being hot is like being the thing, being the girl, So I wanted to look at that because I think for yeah, many of my early years, especially like post puberty, it was all about needing to be this certain person, needing to have power.

Yes, maybe I can readwind and tell you why I chose the title in the first place. And I talk about this in kind of like the prologue of book. But it was originally called Perfect Candidate, which looking back, was like, I think it was so not right, and I think I'd be going on a different kind of like press to her if it was still that. I guess I came up with the title because every time I wrote a chapter, I was like, where am I bringing this back to? Like what was like you think of yourself kind of as a character when you're writing a book like this, like what did this person? Like? Keep coming back to what did I believe in? And I literally wrote out this sentence all ever wanted us to be hot? And I was like, that is exactly what it is. And I chose the word hot because it does have that very two thousands connotation, like I think we use that word more like Paris Hilton, that's hot, and I think that like wanting to be hot back then was it was scrutinized, like I think if you're a woman and you wanted to be hot, you know, it was like there was connotations of like being a slut or being vain or this or that. Where it's very interesting now we're seeing this word kind of be reclaimed. I still meet it in the early two thousands way because I think, like, as a young girl, I wanted to be seen as hot, but also didn't want to be wanted to act like I wasn't trying, So I think, yeah, all I ever wanted is to be hot. It's also looking at power, and you know, being hot is like being the thing, being the girl, So I wanted to look at that because I think for yeah, many of my early years, especially like post puberty, it was all about needing to be this certain person, needing to have power.

As you say in the prologue, you do reference that at one point the working title was perfect Candidate, and I can see why that would have been a really strong idea for you, because I think the idea of perfection has long been intertwined with the development of an eating disorder, and it's a lot about just having no forgiveness, no empathy on yourself. And that's why I loved it, having grown up a couple of decades earlier than you and seeing that culture where people that struggled with eating disorders had the perfect girl scenario. And there's something about reclaiming the word hot that is a really refreshing way. I think it cuts through and there's a level of honesty I think that's.

As you say in the prologue, you do reference that at one point the working title was perfect Candidate, and I can see why that would have been a really strong idea for you, because I think the idea of perfection has long been intertwined with the development of an eating disorder, and it's a lot about just having no forgiveness, no empathy on yourself. And that's why I loved it, having grown up a couple of decades earlier than you and seeing that culture where people that struggled with eating disorders had the perfect girl scenario. And there's something about reclaiming the word hot that is a really refreshing way. I think it cuts through and there's a level of honesty I think that's.

Required for you.

Required for you.

For me, was there a reluctance to say, well, am I going to open myself up to scrutiny from people that don't understand the complexity of an eating disorder or even the onslaught of negative body image commentary that all women navigate every day, thinking oh, well, that's just a flippant narcissist person.

For me, was there a reluctance to say, well, am I going to open myself up to scrutiny from people that don't understand the complexity of an eating disorder or even the onslaught of negative body image commentary that all women navigate every day, thinking oh, well, that's just a flippant narcissist person.

Totally, When you said for me, then that really hit That felt that was fun?

Totally, When you said for me, then that really hit That felt that was fun?

Thank you? Sheels right, Yes, I definitely.

Thank you? Sheels right, Yes, I definitely.

Like when I pitched the title to my publisher, I kind of thought, yeah, is this a really bad idea, because yeah, there is this misconception there's either the perfectionist kind of narrative around eating disorders or it is a vanity thing where people say, oh, they're just a vain person using that. But I guess because the book has kind of like two streams, the hotness thing made sense that I'm sure we'll get into. But for me to be honest, like, the eating disorder did develop because I dieted, and maybe that's not spoken about enough, but kind of like one of the biggest predictors of getting it. Eating disorder is going on a diet, because something happens when you don't eat, like it's it's biological, which I talk about in the book as well. But yeah, I hope, yeah, I think what you say, like if someone was just to read the title, you might get the wrong idea, even the colors and stuff like that, like the hot pink and the way that my name is incursive. But yeah, hopefully I kind of want the book to be like a trojan horse, to be like, oh, what could this be about, and then kind of like strip the layers back and be like, oh, this is like thoughtful. I do want to admit that. Yeah, like I think the eating disort of started because I diet it, but to really illustrate that any disorder is more than a diet.

Like when I pitched the title to my publisher, I kind of thought, yeah, is this a really bad idea, because yeah, there is this misconception there's either the perfectionist kind of narrative around eating disorders or it is a vanity thing where people say, oh, they're just a vain person using that. But I guess because the book has kind of like two streams, the hotness thing made sense that I'm sure we'll get into. But for me to be honest, like, the eating disorder did develop because I dieted, and maybe that's not spoken about enough, but kind of like one of the biggest predictors of getting it. Eating disorder is going on a diet, because something happens when you don't eat, like it's it's biological, which I talk about in the book as well. But yeah, I hope, yeah, I think what you say, like if someone was just to read the title, you might get the wrong idea, even the colors and stuff like that, like the hot pink and the way that my name is incursive. But yeah, hopefully I kind of want the book to be like a trojan horse, to be like, oh, what could this be about, and then kind of like strip the layers back and be like, oh, this is like thoughtful. I do want to admit that. Yeah, like I think the eating disort of started because I diet it, but to really illustrate that any disorder is more than a diet.

It's not a choice.

It's not a choice.

And you can get to a point where you just like slip over the ledge and then you're in it and you can't get out.

And you can get to a point where you just like slip over the ledge and then you're in it and you can't get out.

So it's so true. And as you say, there are those two strands to the book, and it does speak to the wider social context of this culture of hotness and body image and the beauty standard, and then a very highly personal and I think really educational and informative insight into the absolute or consuming horror of an eating disorder. Every generation, every era of pop culture has their beacon of hotness. So we had Marilyn Munroe. Then there's Cape Moss, the Kardashian's Paris Hilton, who we mentioned the height of her postmillennial size zero frame. You write about the impact of the Pussycat Dolls and Britney Spears in your formative years. Can you tell us a little bit about the prevailing culture of your time and those beacons of hotness and the impact that they had on you.

So it's so true. And as you say, there are those two strands to the book, and it does speak to the wider social context of this culture of hotness and body image and the beauty standard, and then a very highly personal and I think really educational and informative insight into the absolute or consuming horror of an eating disorder. Every generation, every era of pop culture has their beacon of hotness. So we had Marilyn Munroe. Then there's Cape Moss, the Kardashian's Paris Hilton, who we mentioned the height of her postmillennial size zero frame. You write about the impact of the Pussycat Dolls and Britney Spears in your formative years. Can you tell us a little bit about the prevailing culture of your time and those beacons of hotness and the impact that they had on you.

Yes, again, I think there was this kind of like two messages that we were being sold. I remember when the Pussycat Dolls song came out and I was watching the film clip for don't You Yeah?

Yes, again, I think there was this kind of like two messages that we were being sold. I remember when the Pussycat Dolls song came out and I was watching the film clip for don't You Yeah?

And you were in primary school, weren't she Yeah?

And you were in primary school, weren't she Yeah?

I think I was in year four or five, and I remember it being this massive deal because they were like, oh my god, these women are strippers and they're pop stars. You know, before that people were really ripping into Britney Spears. I went back and watched a lot of interviews and what I found interesting was people would say to Britney Spears. I think it was Barbara Walters. How do you feel, you know, because you're a role model to young women. She's like, I never chose that, you know, she was a young women woman herself. But yeah, with the pussy gaut dolls, I distinctly remember that there being these two conversations, which is like, oh, they're so hot, or at least internally I was like, oh, they're so hot, I want to have a six pack, and like do these really fun dances and being a convertible. But then yeah, there was also this kind of like charlatan, I don't know the word, but kind of like they're kind of a bit demonic and evil because they're in this kind of like very sexual context that is still this kind of almost cartoonish idea of sexuality. So it was a confusing message to get. And I think as well, I'd talk a lot about mean girls because I was the same age when that came out, and I took totally the different you know. I watched that movie and I just was like, oh, I want to be Regina George. I didn't think, oh, like Tina Fey's trying to say that, you know, she's trying to make a message with this. My message was just like I can't be jealousy and not in this lifetime.

I think I was in year four or five, and I remember it being this massive deal because they were like, oh my god, these women are strippers and they're pop stars. You know, before that people were really ripping into Britney Spears. I went back and watched a lot of interviews and what I found interesting was people would say to Britney Spears. I think it was Barbara Walters. How do you feel, you know, because you're a role model to young women. She's like, I never chose that, you know, she was a young women woman herself. But yeah, with the pussy gaut dolls, I distinctly remember that there being these two conversations, which is like, oh, they're so hot, or at least internally I was like, oh, they're so hot, I want to have a six pack, and like do these really fun dances and being a convertible. But then yeah, there was also this kind of like charlatan, I don't know the word, but kind of like they're kind of a bit demonic and evil because they're in this kind of like very sexual context that is still this kind of almost cartoonish idea of sexuality. So it was a confusing message to get. And I think as well, I'd talk a lot about mean girls because I was the same age when that came out, and I took totally the different you know. I watched that movie and I just was like, oh, I want to be Regina George. I didn't think, oh, like Tina Fey's trying to say that, you know, she's trying to make a message with this. My message was just like I can't be jealousy and not in this lifetime.

So yeah, I think it was confusing.

So yeah, I think it was confusing.

You also talk a little bit about Victoria's Secret and that magazines were publishing diets about how to eat like a victorious secret model. That culture is so pervasive, and when you talk there about mean girls and the intention of the filmmaker and the writer and someone like Tina Fey is still very different to how that's going to be interpreted by a young girl watching that in the cinema with her friends. Likewise, magazines there plast did I imagine on the newsstands if you were walking through the supermarket with your mum or your dad, but also you know, picking up one in a doctor's waiting room and the life changing impact of coming across something like that. Can I ask you a little bit about some of those memories and the impact of that in your early years?

You also talk a little bit about Victoria's Secret and that magazines were publishing diets about how to eat like a victorious secret model. That culture is so pervasive, and when you talk there about mean girls and the intention of the filmmaker and the writer and someone like Tina Fey is still very different to how that's going to be interpreted by a young girl watching that in the cinema with her friends. Likewise, magazines there plast did I imagine on the newsstands if you were walking through the supermarket with your mum or your dad, but also you know, picking up one in a doctor's waiting room and the life changing impact of coming across something like that. Can I ask you a little bit about some of those memories and the impact of that in your early years?

Yeah, of course. It was just.

Yeah, of course. It was just.

It wasn't even something that I thought twice about. You know, you either saw on the front covers of the magazine we'd always see like the hot or not so like comparing two women's outfits.

It wasn't even something that I thought twice about. You know, you either saw on the front covers of the magazine we'd always see like the hot or not so like comparing two women's outfits.

Which I thought was so funny.

Which I thought was so funny.

Or you know, like the plastic surgery gone bad, like the cat looking woman. There was always like very salacious kind of headlines. But you know, even from like a journalist point of view, when I first started out in digital journalism, I would write articles about diets when I was developing an eating dishorder. So I think it's always been there, it's just shifted so back. You know, in the early two thousands, it was very unchecked and it was kind of very blatantly about restricting, Whereas then when I came into my career as a journalist, it kind of moved into wellness, and it was that very much wellness, like Era Freely the banana Girl. So it's been interesting seeing it shape shift into something else, and it's kind of like dressed up now as wellness. I think it's the same thing, to be honest, but now I think there's kind of like this some holier than now tinge on it, which I think is maybe even worse. Like I find it funny and kind of like infuriating in a way, but definitely, Yeah, I loved I loved the magazines, and I just it was my blueprint for how we speak about women. You know, it was a blueprint of like, oh no, it's normal to look at a woman and think, oh fat or fab fat or fab like you know, it's it definitely impacted the culture, and you know, because it was women reading it, Like, I think it made me look at women that way.

Or you know, like the plastic surgery gone bad, like the cat looking woman. There was always like very salacious kind of headlines. But you know, even from like a journalist point of view, when I first started out in digital journalism, I would write articles about diets when I was developing an eating dishorder. So I think it's always been there, it's just shifted so back. You know, in the early two thousands, it was very unchecked and it was kind of very blatantly about restricting, Whereas then when I came into my career as a journalist, it kind of moved into wellness, and it was that very much wellness, like Era Freely the banana Girl. So it's been interesting seeing it shape shift into something else, and it's kind of like dressed up now as wellness. I think it's the same thing, to be honest, but now I think there's kind of like this some holier than now tinge on it, which I think is maybe even worse. Like I find it funny and kind of like infuriating in a way, but definitely, Yeah, I loved I loved the magazines, and I just it was my blueprint for how we speak about women. You know, it was a blueprint of like, oh no, it's normal to look at a woman and think, oh fat or fab fat or fab like you know, it's it definitely impacted the culture, and you know, because it was women reading it, Like, I think it made me look at women that way.

Do you think there has been progress or is it really just a little bit of a smoke screen.

Do you think there has been progress or is it really just a little bit of a smoke screen.

I think there's definitely some progress. But I find it interesting when I was writing this, there's this study by the economists in the US that said that in workplaces, every other kind of racism, sexism, or discrimination based on your sexual preference, I guess has all gone down in the last ten years, but discrimination against size has risen. And I think that's got to do with the wellness culture, which is this real focus on the gym and eating healthily.

I think there's definitely some progress. But I find it interesting when I was writing this, there's this study by the economists in the US that said that in workplaces, every other kind of racism, sexism, or discrimination based on your sexual preference, I guess has all gone down in the last ten years, but discrimination against size has risen. And I think that's got to do with the wellness culture, which is this real focus on the gym and eating healthily.

Yeah, I think that it shifted.

Yeah, I think that it shifted.

I think that in one way, Like I guess the nineties it was very homogeneous. It was this like you know, heroin cheek ideal, which is probably less attainable than say, like the Kim Kardashian type.

I think that in one way, Like I guess the nineties it was very homogeneous. It was this like you know, heroin cheek ideal, which is probably less attainable than say, like the Kim Kardashian type.

Look.

Look.

It's also interesting, how you know, I think I remember the Kardashians coming up in like two thousand and seven, and I remember thinking, oh, they're kind of like a bit they're not really skinny.

It's also interesting, how you know, I think I remember the Kardashians coming up in like two thousand and seven, and I remember thinking, oh, they're kind of like a bit they're not really skinny.

I remember thinking that, Yeah, I thought it was like a good news story for.

I remember thinking that, Yeah, I thought it was like a good news story for.

Yeah, I was confused by it. I was like, surely not.

Yeah, I was confused by it. I was like, surely not.

And then, you know, I think it's really easy to forget that that was radical at one time for these kind of you know, the Kardashians to become really popular. What I also find interesting about that that kind of body, and we saw it with the BBL culture, you know, like having a big bum is I'm sure as someone who was in the nineties, like I remember bum looked big in this definitely.

And then, you know, I think it's really easy to forget that that was radical at one time for these kind of you know, the Kardashians to become really popular. What I also find interesting about that that kind of body, and we saw it with the BBL culture, you know, like having a big bum is I'm sure as someone who was in the nineties, like I remember bum looked big in this definitely.

I mean when you say that about the Kardashians, I remember when Jennifer Lopez broke through and that was I mean, I know this sounds crazy, like, oh, Jennifer Lopez is like the girl next door. Obviously that's totally insane, but just even how someone that had quote unquote curves felt like a lot of us were being seen in the mainstream media for the first time totally.

I mean when you say that about the Kardashians, I remember when Jennifer Lopez broke through and that was I mean, I know this sounds crazy, like, oh, Jennifer Lopez is like the girl next door. Obviously that's totally insane, but just even how someone that had quote unquote curves felt like a lot of us were being seen in the mainstream media for the first time totally.

I think it's interesting as well, is like with all these kind of like ideal women throughout the years, they still have something that is quite unattainable for many women, which is like an hour glass figure. There is still this kind of there is still kind of an ideal within an ideal.

I think it's interesting as well, is like with all these kind of like ideal women throughout the years, they still have something that is quite unattainable for many women, which is like an hour glass figure. There is still this kind of there is still kind of an ideal within an ideal.

But yeah, the cardagule.

But yeah, the cardagule.

For me, the one kind of like woman that I saw growing up that was still considered sexually attractive who wasn't a size six was Nigella. And I love Nigella growing up because like I always wanted to have my own cooking show, and like I thought she was really warm and cool and stuff like that. But that was kind of the only woman that I could see who was still seen as a sexual being without being a size six.

For me, the one kind of like woman that I saw growing up that was still considered sexually attractive who wasn't a size six was Nigella. And I love Nigella growing up because like I always wanted to have my own cooking show, and like I thought she was really warm and cool and stuff like that. But that was kind of the only woman that I could see who was still seen as a sexual being without being a size six.

And I think that has.

And I think that has.

A real impact as well on women's confidence in the bedroom. Like I remember when I was coming out of an eating disorder, I went into binge eating and I gained a lot of weight, you know, and it was just kind of all in my head, but I felt I needed therapy to be able to be like I don't know if I can ever like be confident ever again naked, Like, so paying all this money to go and see a therapist, which obviously is like very much, you know, kind of like part of the mental illness, I guess, But I think that's definitely part of it growing up being like you can't you need to lose weight in order to be comfortable naked or you know, this whole bikini body.

A real impact as well on women's confidence in the bedroom. Like I remember when I was coming out of an eating disorder, I went into binge eating and I gained a lot of weight, you know, and it was just kind of all in my head, but I felt I needed therapy to be able to be like I don't know if I can ever like be confident ever again naked, Like, so paying all this money to go and see a therapist, which obviously is like very much, you know, kind of like part of the mental illness, I guess, But I think that's definitely part of it growing up being like you can't you need to lose weight in order to be comfortable naked or you know, this whole bikini body.

Ideally, I think that your book really beautifully illustrates through me the I mentioned before, the all consuming nature of an eating disorder, and it does suck all of the joy and all of the lightness and anything really out of life that isn't ultimately coming back to this one self imposed mission to be a certain size or to be quota quote hot. I'd like to talk to you a little bit if I can, about your own journey, because, like I say, it is so beautifully expressed in this book, and I think really does provide a great insight into something that I think a lot of people still struggle to understand, even if someone in their own life has struggled with an eating disorder. I often think about a smoker would look back and think, God, I really regret the first time that I lit a cigarette. Or if you know someone in your life who is struggling with alcohol addiction, you wish you could just go back and turn back the clock when they first got into that habit of drinking themselves into a stupor every night you spoke about going on that diet. Is there a moment where you look back and you want to say to yourself, No, no, don't do it, don't do it, You're about to start on an awful path. Yes.

Ideally, I think that your book really beautifully illustrates through me the I mentioned before, the all consuming nature of an eating disorder, and it does suck all of the joy and all of the lightness and anything really out of life that isn't ultimately coming back to this one self imposed mission to be a certain size or to be quota quote hot. I'd like to talk to you a little bit if I can, about your own journey, because, like I say, it is so beautifully expressed in this book, and I think really does provide a great insight into something that I think a lot of people still struggle to understand, even if someone in their own life has struggled with an eating disorder. I often think about a smoker would look back and think, God, I really regret the first time that I lit a cigarette. Or if you know someone in your life who is struggling with alcohol addiction, you wish you could just go back and turn back the clock when they first got into that habit of drinking themselves into a stupor every night you spoke about going on that diet. Is there a moment where you look back and you want to say to yourself, No, no, don't do it, don't do it, You're about to start on an awful path. Yes.

It was definitely linked to getting my first job in the media and the job being a health and Fears editor. Like I really walked into that one, to be perfectly honest, because when I started that, I'd never dieted before. I didn't go on a diet until I was like twenty one. I remember, like I remember my boyfriend when I was nineteen. In the morning, I would have peanut butter and butter on my toast. I don't remember him saying, oh, you know, my ex girlfriend would never have butter with peanut butter, and it just stuck with me. I was like, oh, oh, like, you know, this is unusual that I'm not thinking about this. That's interesting, like there's little tiny seeds that are planted. But yeah, becoming a health and fitness editor, all day I was writing about wellness, diets, vitamins, runs, and as part of the role, I did have to train for marathons and do stuff like that, and that was probably a fucking pinpoint in the time that it really kicked into kind of like a restrictive eating disorder. It was when I did a first run. I'd never run in my life. I have asthma. I didn't like sport as a kid. I would always come last in any kind of like sporting carnival if I was forced to do it. So I think opening up that opening up physical exercise was kind of like a Pandora's box. So I think, yeah, getting that job as much as when I came into the job, I thought it was all ridiculous. I was like, oh, like sorry. I was like, I knew diets didn't work. I thought they were silly, and then it just still hit me anyway. And part of that as well, I probably was working in the media then and being like, I want to do this job. I need to give myself the best chance that I can. I knew like I had still a high like idea of myself. I still was like, oh, gonna it's gonna work for me because I'm funny and because I'm a good writer and stuff. So it wasn't like I thought I was like completely trading on looks, but it was like, in order to be able to show people that I am good at that stuff, I need a again. It was like a trojan horse, and I did it even when I was a teenager. I thought, I'm gonna go in there and like do my hair and my makeup and then I can act like a freak. But I have to do this in order for people to take me seriously and listen to me, which unfortunately, I see it every day on Instagram. When I pose something where I look done up, it does better, just does so.

It was definitely linked to getting my first job in the media and the job being a health and Fears editor. Like I really walked into that one, to be perfectly honest, because when I started that, I'd never dieted before. I didn't go on a diet until I was like twenty one. I remember, like I remember my boyfriend when I was nineteen. In the morning, I would have peanut butter and butter on my toast. I don't remember him saying, oh, you know, my ex girlfriend would never have butter with peanut butter, and it just stuck with me. I was like, oh, oh, like, you know, this is unusual that I'm not thinking about this. That's interesting, like there's little tiny seeds that are planted. But yeah, becoming a health and fitness editor, all day I was writing about wellness, diets, vitamins, runs, and as part of the role, I did have to train for marathons and do stuff like that, and that was probably a fucking pinpoint in the time that it really kicked into kind of like a restrictive eating disorder. It was when I did a first run. I'd never run in my life. I have asthma. I didn't like sport as a kid. I would always come last in any kind of like sporting carnival if I was forced to do it. So I think opening up that opening up physical exercise was kind of like a Pandora's box. So I think, yeah, getting that job as much as when I came into the job, I thought it was all ridiculous. I was like, oh, like sorry. I was like, I knew diets didn't work. I thought they were silly, and then it just still hit me anyway. And part of that as well, I probably was working in the media then and being like, I want to do this job. I need to give myself the best chance that I can. I knew like I had still a high like idea of myself. I still was like, oh, gonna it's gonna work for me because I'm funny and because I'm a good writer and stuff. So it wasn't like I thought I was like completely trading on looks, but it was like, in order to be able to show people that I am good at that stuff, I need a again. It was like a trojan horse, and I did it even when I was a teenager. I thought, I'm gonna go in there and like do my hair and my makeup and then I can act like a freak. But I have to do this in order for people to take me seriously and listen to me, which unfortunately, I see it every day on Instagram. When I pose something where I look done up, it does better, just does so.

And so even in this time when we apparently especially the algorithm is favoring authenticity and realness, and even then clearly it's not actually the reality.

And so even in this time when we apparently especially the algorithm is favoring authenticity and realness, and even then clearly it's not actually the reality.

Yeah, there's and I think some people would say, oh, it's because we prefer women or people to look a certain way, but I think, yeah, there's two things at play there.

Yeah, there's and I think some people would say, oh, it's because we prefer women or people to look a certain way, but I think, yeah, there's two things at play there.

I'd argue, when did you become aware that you, having gone on your first diet at twenty one, that you were actually in new territory and on the way into a very serious eating disorder.

I'd argue, when did you become aware that you, having gone on your first diet at twenty one, that you were actually in new territory and on the way into a very serious eating disorder.

Well, it's funny, yeah, because as I dropped weight, like I guess, in the scheme of things, it probably really went from something fine into something that was like clearly going down that path within three months, Like that's a real quick turn around. I think that actually does happen, though I don't think that's super unusual. Probably it's so hard to tell because there was a lot of different factors happening. Like I'd moved to Sydney, so that was a whole new life change for me from Melbourne, and Sarah's told me everyone that she will black today and all I.

Well, it's funny, yeah, because as I dropped weight, like I guess, in the scheme of things, it probably really went from something fine into something that was like clearly going down that path within three months, Like that's a real quick turn around. I think that actually does happen, though I don't think that's super unusual. Probably it's so hard to tell because there was a lot of different factors happening. Like I'd moved to Sydney, so that was a whole new life change for me from Melbourne, and Sarah's told me everyone that she will black today and all I.

Mean all black for me to make it feel home.

Mean all black for me to make it feel home.

I appreciate that.

I appreciate that.

There were like little signs that I guess probably are easy to notice looking back, Probably.

There were like little signs that I guess probably are easy to notice looking back, Probably.

When my demeanor changed.

When my demeanor changed.

I had a really obvious shift in the way that I behaved with my friends, Like I became super judgmental and really angry all the time. Like my mood was very up and down. And I thought that that was just, you know, I pinned it on something else. I thought that I was, you know, depressed, and I'd gone through periods when I was younger where I'd had like periods of you know what was like diagnosed suppression when I go to the psychologist.

I had a really obvious shift in the way that I behaved with my friends, Like I became super judgmental and really angry all the time. Like my mood was very up and down. And I thought that that was just, you know, I pinned it on something else. I thought that I was, you know, depressed, and I'd gone through periods when I was younger where I'd had like periods of you know what was like diagnosed suppression when I go to the psychologist.

So I just thought, oh, it's another period of that. It's gonna go away.

So I just thought, oh, it's another period of that. It's gonna go away.

I just need to maintain this weight and it will go away because I look perfect. My life is on this really amazing trajectory. I'm living in this awesome house in Surrey Hills. Like I was, like, I'm killing it. So I'm just a little bit confused as to why I feel hollow. I couldn't really work it out, but I thought, oh, I'm not gonna eating isn't going to fix that.

I just need to maintain this weight and it will go away because I look perfect. My life is on this really amazing trajectory. I'm living in this awesome house in Surrey Hills. Like I was, like, I'm killing it. So I'm just a little bit confused as to why I feel hollow. I couldn't really work it out, but I thought, oh, I'm not gonna eating isn't going to fix that.

It's something else that's outside of myself.

It's something else that's outside of myself.

So I'm gonna, you know, take I'm gonna take prescription medication to bump my mood up. And so I never once kind of addressed what is now clear to me was the issue was that I was hungry and not getting enough nutrients to my brain, because that is what happens.

So I'm gonna, you know, take I'm gonna take prescription medication to bump my mood up. And so I never once kind of addressed what is now clear to me was the issue was that I was hungry and not getting enough nutrients to my brain, because that is what happens.

I mean, you read it. I write about it in a book.

I mean, you read it. I write about it in a book.

When you're not getting a certain amount of nutrients, and when you drop to a certain amount a certain weight, you do become delusional. There's full changes in your brain. So yeah, I guess I probably I had a friend come to Sydney and then leave and message me later saying that they had an awful time and they didn't like spending time with me. And that's when I was like, oh, yeah, maybe there's something going on here interesting.

When you're not getting a certain amount of nutrients, and when you drop to a certain amount a certain weight, you do become delusional. There's full changes in your brain. So yeah, I guess I probably I had a friend come to Sydney and then leave and message me later saying that they had an awful time and they didn't like spending time with me. And that's when I was like, oh, yeah, maybe there's something going on here interesting.

Can I just ask you a little bit about your recovery and is it something where you will always a little bit be looking over your shoulder.

Can I just ask you a little bit about your recovery and is it something where you will always a little bit be looking over your shoulder.

Oh no, I don't think I'll be looking over my shoulder. And I want to be so clear about that because through my recovery and even like I would demolish literature about eating disorders when I had an eating disorder.

Oh no, I don't think I'll be looking over my shoulder. And I want to be so clear about that because through my recovery and even like I would demolish literature about eating disorders when I had an eating disorder.

Because I was trying to work it out and I had a lot of time to myself.

Because I was trying to work it out and I had a lot of time to myself.

I didn't really have friends, so I could spend my sundays researching things. But most of the stories that I read didn't have any kind of hope in them or recovery. It was always kind of this. There's an idea that, oh, once you have an eating disorder, it will always be part of your life. That's the prevailing concept I think around eating disorders. So I wanted to share the fact that I am totally recovered, and part of the reason why I am an why I can be is because.

I didn't really have friends, so I could spend my sundays researching things. But most of the stories that I read didn't have any kind of hope in them or recovery. It was always kind of this. There's an idea that, oh, once you have an eating disorder, it will always be part of your life. That's the prevailing concept I think around eating disorders. So I wanted to share the fact that I am totally recovered, and part of the reason why I am an why I can be is because.

I have this wonder like WHOA. I didn't think I could.

I have this wonder like WHOA. I didn't think I could.

Ever recover from it, and I hope that comes across in the book. There's so many factors that helped me recover. Some of them, and I write about this in the book, are like therapy. Obviously getting the correct psychologist. I went through different psychologists when I was unwell, and many didn't pick up that I had an eating disorder. Even a psychiatrist didn't pick it up, but an intern in the room did, which I talk about in the book. Relationships, so even yet, like I had a really formative, like romantic relationship when I was coming out of the eating disorder, and that was with someone who was just we had so much fun together and I knew that they didn't like me because I was kind of like young or attractive. It was just like we were two buddies and then had this really like lovely time together.

Ever recover from it, and I hope that comes across in the book. There's so many factors that helped me recover. Some of them, and I write about this in the book, are like therapy. Obviously getting the correct psychologist. I went through different psychologists when I was unwell, and many didn't pick up that I had an eating disorder. Even a psychiatrist didn't pick it up, but an intern in the room did, which I talk about in the book. Relationships, so even yet, like I had a really formative, like romantic relationship when I was coming out of the eating disorder, and that was with someone who was just we had so much fun together and I knew that they didn't like me because I was kind of like young or attractive. It was just like we were two buddies and then had this really like lovely time together.

So that was really crucial.

So that was really crucial.

And spending more time with my friends also helped, Like which all that sounds like just fun things to do, but for someone of an eating disorder, it is hard to day out when you're still tired or you know, you're still restricting so you're hungry. So it was kind of pushing myself in these really social directions helped me. And then it was kind of like a domino effect because it can go you can snowball down into an eying disorder, which is kind of what happened, and I think you can snowball up, and yeah, I just don't really. I think that the message that it will always be there with you, while that can be true, like there's research to say, you know, relapse isn't probable necessarily, but it's like obviously a possibility. You definitely can recover from it. I just don't think we hear those stories enough and so I want to be that story and I feel really excited. I'm like, oh, I don't ever want to do that again because I know how hard it Wasn't like really affected me emotionally, obviously, that's wrote a book about it. But I never want to feel that hopeless and that out of control and that like overwhelming obsession with something that you like, yeah, just pulled me under. So I don't want to I'm never going to die it again because I can't afford to go into that again.

And spending more time with my friends also helped, Like which all that sounds like just fun things to do, but for someone of an eating disorder, it is hard to day out when you're still tired or you know, you're still restricting so you're hungry. So it was kind of pushing myself in these really social directions helped me. And then it was kind of like a domino effect because it can go you can snowball down into an eying disorder, which is kind of what happened, and I think you can snowball up, and yeah, I just don't really. I think that the message that it will always be there with you, while that can be true, like there's research to say, you know, relapse isn't probable necessarily, but it's like obviously a possibility. You definitely can recover from it. I just don't think we hear those stories enough and so I want to be that story and I feel really excited. I'm like, oh, I don't ever want to do that again because I know how hard it Wasn't like really affected me emotionally, obviously, that's wrote a book about it. But I never want to feel that hopeless and that out of control and that like overwhelming obsession with something that you like, yeah, just pulled me under. So I don't want to I'm never going to die it again because I can't afford to go into that again.

It's not worth it.

It's not worth it.

Coming up. It seems to be the prevailing diet culture weight loss issue of our time. So I ask for me what she thinks about a zen pek.

Coming up. It seems to be the prevailing diet culture weight loss issue of our time. So I ask for me what she thinks about a zen pek.

For me.

For me.

I just wanted to touch upon a couple of chapters in the book. Specifically, one is actually about a zenpic. I mean, there is a whole chapter in the book about a zen pick. You've spoken to a lot of experts in the course of writing your book. It's a huge conversation a zmpeak. What are your main takeaways about it?

I just wanted to touch upon a couple of chapters in the book. Specifically, one is actually about a zenpic. I mean, there is a whole chapter in the book about a zen pick. You've spoken to a lot of experts in the course of writing your book. It's a huge conversation a zmpeak. What are your main takeaways about it?

I wrote about ozmpic, so I haven't used ozen pic. It was the one chapter in the book that's about something that I haven't experienced. So I was a bit worried writing about it. But I decided to write about it because when I was coming out of a binge eating disorder, a psychiatrist prescribed me an appetite of pressant wasn't ozenbic, but it was a pill that you could take to stop your appetite, and I started taking it. And while I was taking it, another I wanted to get therapy for my kind of thoughts, but I couldn't find a even just sort of specialist who had any time, because it's really hard to get into them. But I found a study by Sydney UNI which was trialing a online binge eating therapy course, right and I spoke to the researcher, a woman called Sarah, and she said to me, you can do the course, but you're not allowed to take the appetite suppressant. And so I was kind of at a crossroads being like, do I take this appetite suppressant and if it works properly I can go back to, you know, a weight that I want, or do I forego that and really work on kind of like my concepts. Of course, I knew that the secondary option was right, and when I met this woman Sarah, who became like very pivotal in my life, Like I spoke to her again for the book, I could tell in her voice she was like, don't do this.

I wrote about ozmpic, so I haven't used ozen pic. It was the one chapter in the book that's about something that I haven't experienced. So I was a bit worried writing about it. But I decided to write about it because when I was coming out of a binge eating disorder, a psychiatrist prescribed me an appetite of pressant wasn't ozenbic, but it was a pill that you could take to stop your appetite, and I started taking it. And while I was taking it, another I wanted to get therapy for my kind of thoughts, but I couldn't find a even just sort of specialist who had any time, because it's really hard to get into them. But I found a study by Sydney UNI which was trialing a online binge eating therapy course, right and I spoke to the researcher, a woman called Sarah, and she said to me, you can do the course, but you're not allowed to take the appetite suppressant. And so I was kind of at a crossroads being like, do I take this appetite suppressant and if it works properly I can go back to, you know, a weight that I want, or do I forego that and really work on kind of like my concepts. Of course, I knew that the secondary option was right, and when I met this woman Sarah, who became like very pivotal in my life, Like I spoke to her again for the book, I could tell in her voice she was like, don't do this.

It's not the answer.

It's not the answer.

And I think for people in my position, you know, I think had that been now that I was going through, that I would have found a way to get on those MPIC To be perfectly honest, and I know that it's easy. There was kind of a push and pull talking about in the book, because when you share that something is easy to get. I think I had the risk of kind of like encouraging people or telling them that it's possible, because I think a lot of people like actually don't know that much about ozm pic. They just think, you know, the Kardashians are on it, but it is very common. There's plenty of people on it. Did a call out on my Instagram to see who was on it, and a lot of them. A lot of people were people with diabetes or the children of people with diabetes, and they were like, oh, we can't get the medication because a lot of people are using it for weight loss. Then I had some people message me who were using it for weight loss, but through kind of like a very controlled, rigid method. And now are people who their doctors were suggesting that they lose weight, and they THEMSEL could see, I'm not doing it to change the way my body looks. I'm doing it because I want more mobility. I want to do this, or I want to do that. But yeah, the few people that I spoke to who had found it through nefarious means and were a smaller weight than I am, that was very interesting speaking to them because to me, the side effects of going on to zepic for so many people's like no appetite, you get like diabolical verbs, you've got all this problem with your guts and stuff like that, because it keeps food in your stomach.

And I think for people in my position, you know, I think had that been now that I was going through, that I would have found a way to get on those MPIC To be perfectly honest, and I know that it's easy. There was kind of a push and pull talking about in the book, because when you share that something is easy to get. I think I had the risk of kind of like encouraging people or telling them that it's possible, because I think a lot of people like actually don't know that much about ozm pic. They just think, you know, the Kardashians are on it, but it is very common. There's plenty of people on it. Did a call out on my Instagram to see who was on it, and a lot of them. A lot of people were people with diabetes or the children of people with diabetes, and they were like, oh, we can't get the medication because a lot of people are using it for weight loss. Then I had some people message me who were using it for weight loss, but through kind of like a very controlled, rigid method. And now are people who their doctors were suggesting that they lose weight, and they THEMSEL could see, I'm not doing it to change the way my body looks. I'm doing it because I want more mobility. I want to do this, or I want to do that. But yeah, the few people that I spoke to who had found it through nefarious means and were a smaller weight than I am, that was very interesting speaking to them because to me, the side effects of going on to zepic for so many people's like no appetite, you get like diabolical verbs, you've got all this problem with your guts and stuff like that, because it keeps food in your stomach.

That's how it works.

That's how it works.

I was like, for you to want to give up the enjoyment of food and to spend hundreds of dollars a month to look a certain way, there is something amiss in your brain. I don't want to judge you like it's your body or one hundred percent allowed to do it, But I was just like, oh, I've been in your position, and I just we don't know enough about it yet to know the long term effects. And there's been throughout history through the seventies and eighties, there were these kind of like miracle pills that then later came out there's like all these side effects.

I was like, for you to want to give up the enjoyment of food and to spend hundreds of dollars a month to look a certain way, there is something amiss in your brain. I don't want to judge you like it's your body or one hundred percent allowed to do it, But I was just like, oh, I've been in your position, and I just we don't know enough about it yet to know the long term effects. And there's been throughout history through the seventies and eighties, there were these kind of like miracle pills that then later came out there's like all these side effects.

I'm not a doctor.

I'm not a doctor.

I don't know what's gonna happen to those mpig But I think while our culture is still valorizing thinness, it's very very complicated, and I think if you're someone who doesn't need it for weight loss, like and you're doing it for cosmetic reasons, I would just I know, for me, I had to really like dig inside of myself and wonder why in order to do that. But at the same time, more research than I did was like women who are in smaller bodies do go further in work, women who were wealthier are thinner than women who were poorer, whereas with men there that they can be a certain way. It doesn't really matter absolutely.

I don't know what's gonna happen to those mpig But I think while our culture is still valorizing thinness, it's very very complicated, and I think if you're someone who doesn't need it for weight loss, like and you're doing it for cosmetic reasons, I would just I know, for me, I had to really like dig inside of myself and wonder why in order to do that. But at the same time, more research than I did was like women who are in smaller bodies do go further in work, women who were wealthier are thinner than women who were poorer, whereas with men there that they can be a certain way. It doesn't really matter absolutely.

And one thing I wanted to ask about too is this always crazy notion to me that women's bodies are light fashion. So it's like, oh, my goodness, we're all wearing hot pinkers, bubbyco. No, that's all out now, come on, guys, twenty twenty four, we're back to beije now. And you know, oh, skinny jeans are in, and no they're not, and you know, blah blah blah. And the way that we talk about women's bodies is though you could just go to the high street and you know that's that's the look this summer. You know, everyone's wearing that on the Paris runway, so you know, heroin cheek is in. Oh no, yeah, it's all about our curves. Oh no, it's this. And then it's insane because your body is your body. And I remember, you know, hearing a joke once when I was young and somebody said, oh, they say boobs are back in fashion. Thank god I didn't throw mine away from last time. And it's just so true, isn't it so? As zmpick is unfortunately part of that throwback, I think to the Kardashian era, because that's what fashion does.

And one thing I wanted to ask about too is this always crazy notion to me that women's bodies are light fashion. So it's like, oh, my goodness, we're all wearing hot pinkers, bubbyco. No, that's all out now, come on, guys, twenty twenty four, we're back to beije now. And you know, oh, skinny jeans are in, and no they're not, and you know, blah blah blah. And the way that we talk about women's bodies is though you could just go to the high street and you know that's that's the look this summer. You know, everyone's wearing that on the Paris runway, so you know, heroin cheek is in. Oh no, yeah, it's all about our curves. Oh no, it's this. And then it's insane because your body is your body. And I remember, you know, hearing a joke once when I was young and somebody said, oh, they say boobs are back in fashion. Thank god I didn't throw mine away from last time. And it's just so true, isn't it so? As zmpick is unfortunately part of that throwback, I think to the Kardashian era, because that's what fashion does.

It goes in cycles, goes in cycles.

It goes in cycles, goes in cycles.

Yeah. Well, actually when we talk about that commodifying our bodies to fit the latest fashion whim, I wanted to ask you about cosmetic surgery, and that is something that you also write about.

Yeah. Well, actually when we talk about that commodifying our bodies to fit the latest fashion whim, I wanted to ask you about cosmetic surgery, and that is something that you also write about.

In the book.

In the book.

You had a no's job at sixteen, for instance, and then you decided later on to have a boob job, and you quote your right boob was heavier than your left. Walk me through a little bit about this, because again I think it, like the word hot, there's a lot of judgment and glib assumptions about people that decide to undergo cosmetic surgery, and then there is the more serious flip side of it, where it can be emblematic of a bigger problem and of course also just generally the toxic beauty standards of the wider culture. That's again, I'm sorry, a very big question there, but really keen to get your thoughts about cosmetic surgery and what you'd say to anyone that has got a really strong judgment on it. One way or the other.

You had a no's job at sixteen, for instance, and then you decided later on to have a boob job, and you quote your right boob was heavier than your left. Walk me through a little bit about this, because again I think it, like the word hot, there's a lot of judgment and glib assumptions about people that decide to undergo cosmetic surgery, and then there is the more serious flip side of it, where it can be emblematic of a bigger problem and of course also just generally the toxic beauty standards of the wider culture. That's again, I'm sorry, a very big question there, but really keen to get your thoughts about cosmetic surgery and what you'd say to anyone that has got a really strong judgment on it. One way or the other.

Yes, it's complicated, like anything that is a big topic that people feel strongly about. So I hadn't know you when I was seventeen, but the wheels started an emotion when I was fifteen sixteen, so that's pretty young. Bella hadide she got on on she was like fourteen, I'm pretty sure. So she beat me with that one. But when I got it done, I was definitely vulnerable because I was obsessed with my nose and obsessed with how it was wrong and how I wanted it to be different. I would like go and go on MS paint and kind of like dip out parts of it. So I was very, very certain from a really young age that I wanted to no shop. There's also kind of like, and I think a lot of people get this, that you can remember one moment in time where someone's made a comment about your appearance and it sticks with you. And I've always been someone who remembers little things that have hurt me. I guess a lot of people do. It's like you remember negative things, but I take things to heart, especially when they're about my appearance, because I knew that it was something that was really important. So from the age of eleven. That's when I realized I need to get a nose job. It's not a want, it's a need, and I'm going to do it so that one I don't regret at all, because and there's research into this. Sometimes cosmetic surgery can be really helpful because for the right people, if there is something that you really want to change, changing it can free up that mental space. But then on the other side, like you were mentioning, if you are not the right candidate, and if you do kind of struggle with obsession, you're ruminating about something, You're thinking about something for hours of a day, fixing it might not fix the problem, which is internal. And so I would say the nose job, I don't regret. I love it, but the breast implants, and I should be calling it rhinoplasty verse breast implants, because there's a whole thing about how.

Yes, it's complicated, like anything that is a big topic that people feel strongly about. So I hadn't know you when I was seventeen, but the wheels started an emotion when I was fifteen sixteen, so that's pretty young. Bella hadide she got on on she was like fourteen, I'm pretty sure. So she beat me with that one. But when I got it done, I was definitely vulnerable because I was obsessed with my nose and obsessed with how it was wrong and how I wanted it to be different. I would like go and go on MS paint and kind of like dip out parts of it. So I was very, very certain from a really young age that I wanted to no shop. There's also kind of like, and I think a lot of people get this, that you can remember one moment in time where someone's made a comment about your appearance and it sticks with you. And I've always been someone who remembers little things that have hurt me. I guess a lot of people do. It's like you remember negative things, but I take things to heart, especially when they're about my appearance, because I knew that it was something that was really important. So from the age of eleven. That's when I realized I need to get a nose job. It's not a want, it's a need, and I'm going to do it so that one I don't regret at all, because and there's research into this. Sometimes cosmetic surgery can be really helpful because for the right people, if there is something that you really want to change, changing it can free up that mental space. But then on the other side, like you were mentioning, if you are not the right candidate, and if you do kind of struggle with obsession, you're ruminating about something, You're thinking about something for hours of a day, fixing it might not fix the problem, which is internal. And so I would say the nose job, I don't regret. I love it, but the breast implants, and I should be calling it rhinoplasty verse breast implants, because there's a whole thing about how.

Well I called a boob job. So you're doing much better than me.

Well I called a boob job. So you're doing much better than me.

There's a reason why we you know, I guess it's normalized. It's like there is epic thing. When we talk about it in this like real common way, it becomes normalized. And it also like I sometimes call it a boob job because breast augmentation feels really kind of like gross, and it reminds me of the procedure, which kind of is gnally.

There's a reason why we you know, I guess it's normalized. It's like there is epic thing. When we talk about it in this like real common way, it becomes normalized. And it also like I sometimes call it a boob job because breast augmentation feels really kind of like gross, and it reminds me of the procedure, which kind of is gnally.

You know.

You know.

I got a breast implants because I was self conscious about the mismatch shape of my breast. They were asymmetrical. I was nineteen, and as a nineteen year old, I didn't have much going on in my life apart from trying to figure out how to look as good as I can. So I did that to fix a part of myself that I don't think really needed to be fixed in hindsight. And I'm twenty nine now, so it's been ten years and I speak about this in the book as well. I was under the impression, oh, I'm going to be rich and famous, multimillionaire celebrity, Like I'm just going to get am redone when I'm thirty, Like it's not going to be an issue.

I got a breast implants because I was self conscious about the mismatch shape of my breast. They were asymmetrical. I was nineteen, and as a nineteen year old, I didn't have much going on in my life apart from trying to figure out how to look as good as I can. So I did that to fix a part of myself that I don't think really needed to be fixed in hindsight. And I'm twenty nine now, so it's been ten years and I speak about this in the book as well. I was under the impression, oh, I'm going to be rich and famous, multimillionaire celebrity, Like I'm just going to get am redone when I'm thirty, Like it's not going to be an issue.

I'm probably gonna have a.

I'm probably gonna have a.

Baby, so I'll get like a tummy tark and like a vagina or a rejuvenation. I had this like as a nineteen year old, you're a bit tapped, and so I went into it thinking, you know, when it is time to get them out that's not going to be an issue. But now I'm at the age where I do want to get them out, and I have to think, Oh, when I get the surgery, it's going to cost this amount of money.

Baby, so I'll get like a tummy tark and like a vagina or a rejuvenation. I had this like as a nineteen year old, you're a bit tapped, and so I went into it thinking, you know, when it is time to get them out that's not going to be an issue. But now I'm at the age where I do want to get them out, and I have to think, Oh, when I get the surgery, it's going to cost this amount of money.

I'm going to have to take six weeks of work. I can't lift anything.

I'm going to have to take six weeks of work. I can't lift anything.

There's all these little complications that you're not really I'm sure I was told when I was nineteen.

There's all these little complications that you're not really I'm sure I was told when I was nineteen.

Was I paying attention?

Was I paying attention?

No, I'm getting ready to have summer with boobs that aren't asymmetrical, and I'm going to be able to be confident again. You know, it was such a big I think I had body dysmorphia. It was such a big thing that the asymmetry in my breast was stopping me from like dating or like meeting new people. So yeah, I think the breasting plants I regret, But I also would never judge a young woman who decides to do it, because you can only work on the amount of knowledge that you have.

No, I'm getting ready to have summer with boobs that aren't asymmetrical, and I'm going to be able to be confident again. You know, it was such a big I think I had body dysmorphia. It was such a big thing that the asymmetry in my breast was stopping me from like dating or like meeting new people. So yeah, I think the breasting plants I regret, But I also would never judge a young woman who decides to do it, because you can only work on the amount of knowledge that you have.

And to be fair, again, it's new.

And to be fair, again, it's new.

Once there was definitely years in my life where I felt good having breast implants and I was happy with them. So it's really easy for me while I'm approaching the time where I have to spend money to get them out. I'm thinking, oh no, like don't get breasting plants. But yeah, for me, it's more and this is kind of the themes in the book. It's more looking at the people who profit off vulnerable people, because there is a lot of that. Like there's a reason why I go and see my no surgeon and there's like photos of his family in Whistler lined up outside their chalet, you know.

Once there was definitely years in my life where I felt good having breast implants and I was happy with them. So it's really easy for me while I'm approaching the time where I have to spend money to get them out. I'm thinking, oh no, like don't get breasting plants. But yeah, for me, it's more and this is kind of the themes in the book. It's more looking at the people who profit off vulnerable people, because there is a lot of that. Like there's a reason why I go and see my no surgeon and there's like photos of his family in Whistler lined up outside their chalet, you know.

So yeah, there's a lot of people in this world that are profiting off everything from body dysmorphia to self loathing and general body and beauty standard insecurity in this world. So I think it's a great culprit to pinpoint in what is a complex conversation.

So yeah, there's a lot of people in this world that are profiting off everything from body dysmorphia to self loathing and general body and beauty standard insecurity in this world. So I think it's a great culprit to pinpoint in what is a complex conversation.

I wanted to you mentioned I.

I wanted to you mentioned I.

Think body positivity. Last year Australian of the Year was Taran Bromfort, whose work has been in body image, and she came on the podcast not long after she was made Astraightan of the Year and we talked about I suppose the evolution from body positivity to the more ideal goal of body neutrality, where you can't expect everyone to love their body every day. It's not about that, it's more just about an acceptance of whatever your body looks like, and there isn't an ideal. I wanted to ask you a little bit about that. I've asked earlier about you know, are things getting better? Are are we improving? Are we not? What do you think about the concept of body neutrality? Do you think that's probably the closest to an ideal for me?