Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About Estella podcast. I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your host, and every week I sit down with some of the biggest names in the country because when Australia's celebrities are ready to talk, they come to something to talk about. These days, not very many people can say they've had the same job for twenty years, but my guest today is one of them. It was February two thousand and five when Karl Stefanovic joined The Today Show, new to the high stakes landscape of breakfast TV and all it would bring with it for the next two decades. Despite his household name status, Carl very rarely gives in depth interviews. This is his first in quite a few years and it took a lot of time to convince him to get here. But on this episode is Something.

Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About Estella podcast. I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your host, and every week I sit down with some of the biggest names in the country because when Australia's celebrities are ready to talk, they come to something to talk about. These days, not very many people can say they've had the same job for twenty years, but my guest today is one of them. It was February two thousand and five when Karl Stefanovic joined The Today Show, new to the high stakes landscape of breakfast TV and all it would bring with it for the next two decades. Despite his household name status, Carl very rarely gives in depth interviews. This is his first in quite a few years and it took a lot of time to convince him to get here. But on this episode is Something.

To talk About.

To talk About.

He opens up about everything from his female co.

He opens up about everything from his female co.

Hosts, oh god, there's been a lot of women haven't had.

Hosts, oh god, there's been a lot of women haven't had.

To surviving twenty years in one of the most talked about jobs in the country.

To surviving twenty years in one of the most talked about jobs in the country.

I'm surprised. I guess some days that I haven't been canceled.

I'm surprised. I guess some days that I haven't been canceled.

The moment that had his family utterly terrified during the summer holidays.

The moment that had his family utterly terrified during the summer holidays.

The police can't find her, and there's a beach, there's bushland.

The police can't find her, and there's a beach, there's bushland.

What he really thinks about his longest on screen partnership.

What he really thinks about his longest on screen partnership.

But this is what I will say about Lisa.

But this is what I will say about Lisa.

And of course his wife Jasmine.

And of course his wife Jasmine.

She's dealt with a lot and there's a lot of stuff that people don't see and wouldn't be aware of that she handles with grace and humor, and you know, I doubt I'd be here without her.

She's dealt with a lot and there's a lot of stuff that people don't see and wouldn't be aware of that she handles with grace and humor, and you know, I doubt I'd be here without her.

Karl Stefanovic, Welcome to the Stellar podcast.

Karl Stefanovic, Welcome to the Stellar podcast.

So nice to be on big Fan, longtime listener, first time.

So nice to be on big Fan, longtime listener, first time.

Here in the hot scene, first time caller.

Here in the hot scene, first time caller.

I'm very nervous, Sarah, Oh you are.

I'm very nervous, Sarah, Oh you are.

What would you be nervous?

What would you be nervous?

Is there anyone in Australia that's got more hours of live TV under their belt than you?

Is there anyone in Australia that's got more hours of live TV under their belt than you?

I don't know.

I don't know.

I was trying to work it out the other day and I think it's like tens of thousands of hours, So probably David Kosh. Yes, his you know, and his record will never get beaten. I don't think in terms of duration and success. I really admire him, actually, but it's a long time and it's a lot of hours. It's a you know, it's a frequent flyer program of its.

I was trying to work it out the other day and I think it's like tens of thousands of hours, So probably David Kosh. Yes, his you know, and his record will never get beaten. I don't think in terms of duration and success. I really admire him, actually, but it's a long time and it's a lot of hours. It's a you know, it's a frequent flyer program of its.

Own, and on days when there's breaking news, you can sometimes be there on air for the better part of half a day.

Own, and on days when there's breaking news, you can sometimes be there on air for the better part of half a day.

So just in the last couple of weeks, we had the presidential inauguration that was seven hours. Last year it was my longest broadcast from five in the morning in Washington, DC to seven at night back home in Queensland. So fourteen hours, Like that's it's a long haul, but you know, I love those on a big days and this job's given me a front row seat to big moments in history and that's such a privilege. And you know, the way I work is that I like to sync myself into a long broadcast and you don't get that many opportunities. That's the reality of it. So and that's why I still love doing it. Otherwise, you know, it'd be tough.

So just in the last couple of weeks, we had the presidential inauguration that was seven hours. Last year it was my longest broadcast from five in the morning in Washington, DC to seven at night back home in Queensland. So fourteen hours, Like that's it's a long haul, but you know, I love those on a big days and this job's given me a front row seat to big moments in history and that's such a privilege. And you know, the way I work is that I like to sync myself into a long broadcast and you don't get that many opportunities. That's the reality of it. So and that's why I still love doing it. Otherwise, you know, it'd be tough.

Well, otherwise you wouldn't be here twenty years on, and it has been twenty years on because it was actually February fourteen, two thousand and five, that you joined the Today.

Well, otherwise you wouldn't be here twenty years on, and it has been twenty years on because it was actually February fourteen, two thousand and five, that you joined the Today.

Show as co host.

Show as co host.

What are your memories of that first morning? Tracy Grimshaw was sitting alongside you as co host.

What are your memories of that first morning? Tracy Grimshaw was sitting alongside you as co host.

What do you remember of that day? On set.

What do you remember of that day? On set.

So all I remember is that I was due to come back from the LA bureau. So I'm all of thirty. I don't really know that much. I've done a couple of years in LA doing the foreign correspondent job, and I got a call from David Gingell to say, you're coming back to Australia. We needed to do sixty Minutes, like that is the primo gig like in the world. Because the Australian Sixty Minutes is such a terrific show. I'm like cocker hoop, I don't even ask for a contract. I fly the family back and we get back to Sydney and I'm like, oh, I am the next George Nigas, Like here we go, full of myself. But then like a week later, Steve Leebman had a heart attack and was really ill and decided that that was it for him, and and Ginge called me and he goes, you are going to do the Today Show? And I said, huh, are you serious? There's just what I'm going, from the world's best, safest gig to the riskiest, most difficult live gig in Australia. No worries, big fella, Like I was like why did I get a contract before I left ILA? But I always had a thing for live TV, and I always like biting off more than I can chew. And Day one came and I wasn't overly nervous. I just knew I didn't know enough. So at thirty you know, going on thirty one, you start out and it's like, I can do the mechanics of the show, but the rest of it is like really hard. Just a normal conversation in front of the camera is particularly hard to learn to do unless you're a natural talker. And to go into the furnace and to have the attention where every word is being looked at is a transition, you know. I'd never had that. I had it in Live Crosses, but it was all news oriented.

So all I remember is that I was due to come back from the LA bureau. So I'm all of thirty. I don't really know that much. I've done a couple of years in LA doing the foreign correspondent job, and I got a call from David Gingell to say, you're coming back to Australia. We needed to do sixty Minutes, like that is the primo gig like in the world. Because the Australian Sixty Minutes is such a terrific show. I'm like cocker hoop, I don't even ask for a contract. I fly the family back and we get back to Sydney and I'm like, oh, I am the next George Nigas, Like here we go, full of myself. But then like a week later, Steve Leebman had a heart attack and was really ill and decided that that was it for him, and and Ginge called me and he goes, you are going to do the Today Show? And I said, huh, are you serious? There's just what I'm going, from the world's best, safest gig to the riskiest, most difficult live gig in Australia. No worries, big fella, Like I was like why did I get a contract before I left ILA? But I always had a thing for live TV, and I always like biting off more than I can chew. And Day one came and I wasn't overly nervous. I just knew I didn't know enough. So at thirty you know, going on thirty one, you start out and it's like, I can do the mechanics of the show, but the rest of it is like really hard. Just a normal conversation in front of the camera is particularly hard to learn to do unless you're a natural talker. And to go into the furnace and to have the attention where every word is being looked at is a transition, you know. I'd never had that. I had it in Live Crosses, but it was all news oriented.

New people would have it at the level that you'd been exposed to on Breakfast Team, that scrutiny of those interactions.

New people would have it at the level that you'd been exposed to on Breakfast Team, that scrutiny of those interactions.

At any time during live, but just the basic conversations with Tracy, Tracy's seasoned professional. She was so and so formidable. I just thought on day one, oh man, I am so out of my depth, Like this is going to be a bumpy ride.

At any time during live, but just the basic conversations with Tracy, Tracy's seasoned professional. She was so and so formidable. I just thought on day one, oh man, I am so out of my depth, Like this is going to be a bumpy ride.

And I wasn't wrong.

And I wasn't wrong.

When did you start to feel then a bit more comfortable and realize that you weren't out of your depth.

When did you start to feel then a bit more comfortable and realize that you weren't out of your depth.

There were there are elements of the show that I knew I could do. I knew I could do an interview. I knew I could do hard news. I knew I could, you know, be comfortable live. But it was just the conversations that we're having now. When you're on TV with a lot of cameras and you're aware of an audience that's watching, it's not natural. So it was some time, and that was that was a particularly big year. Tracy left at the end of it. I remember she came into me and I was late for work because I left my shoes at home. It was this crazy story, but I ended up getting Ray Martin's shoes and I had raymard and shoes on, and so I was sitting in the studio and I came in like, hey, Trey, say look at this, I've got Ray martin shoes, and Tracy leans across and goes, you got his shoes, I got his job.

There were there are elements of the show that I knew I could do. I knew I could do an interview. I knew I could do hard news. I knew I could, you know, be comfortable live. But it was just the conversations that we're having now. When you're on TV with a lot of cameras and you're aware of an audience that's watching, it's not natural. So it was some time, and that was that was a particularly big year. Tracy left at the end of it. I remember she came into me and I was late for work because I left my shoes at home. It was this crazy story, but I ended up getting Ray Martin's shoes and I had raymard and shoes on, and so I was sitting in the studio and I came in like, hey, Trey, say look at this, I've got Ray martin shoes, and Tracy leans across and goes, you got his shoes, I got his job.

Good lot.

Good lot.

She denies that story, but at one she.

She denies that story, but at one she.

Should own that story.

Should own that story.

She was fantastic. She also told me a couple of times which I'll never forget. You know. She leaned across one day when I was asking about an interview, and she said, can you stop being so needy? And it was a great lesson for me because I didn't feel like I was. But it's a tough business and you've got to get it and you've got to know the parameters of it, and you've got to be self sustained. You can't rely on anyone else. So you know, that was fantastic, particularly when she just deserted.

She was fantastic. She also told me a couple of times which I'll never forget. You know. She leaned across one day when I was asking about an interview, and she said, can you stop being so needy? And it was a great lesson for me because I didn't feel like I was. But it's a tough business and you've got to get it and you've got to know the parameters of it, and you've got to be self sustained. You can't rely on anyone else. So you know, that was fantastic, particularly when she just deserted.

Me and I cried, who's needy?

Me and I cried, who's needy?

Now?

Now?

No, I just you know I was at the time, you know, Tracy was going to a current affair, so it was like and then Jess came in, and you know, Jess was was such a light and she just got pillaried in the media. It was shocking, It was it was really shocking, you know, the treatment that she had. I mean, she was called the most heinous things in newspapers. So she wasn't just dealing with the early mornings and getting her head around a big job in the media. She was. She was really pilloried and called the most heinous things, and that you know, at the time, I was just trying to survive myself, and I was like, oh, this poor girl, and I do I've set I apologize to j just since then, but at the time, I just didn't know how to navigate my own future, let alone be there for her in the way that I should have been. And you know, by the end of that period with Jess, we had she left and then we had Sarah Murdock come in, and that's when I started to feel like, you know, I was the senior partner.

No, I just you know I was at the time, you know, Tracy was going to a current affair, so it was like and then Jess came in, and you know, Jess was was such a light and she just got pillaried in the media. It was shocking, It was it was really shocking, you know, the treatment that she had. I mean, she was called the most heinous things in newspapers. So she wasn't just dealing with the early mornings and getting her head around a big job in the media. She was. She was really pilloried and called the most heinous things, and that you know, at the time, I was just trying to survive myself, and I was like, oh, this poor girl, and I do I've set I apologize to j just since then, but at the time, I just didn't know how to navigate my own future, let alone be there for her in the way that I should have been. And you know, by the end of that period with Jess, we had she left and then we had Sarah Murdock come in, and that's when I started to feel like, you know, I was the senior partner.

Sarah m hang up.

Sarah m hang up.

Sarah Murdock's doing the Today Show was like, I mean, we were getting, you know, pummeled in the ratings. But Sarah Cable was like, Okay, if Sarah Murdock want to do the show, maybe we're going to be okay something right. She was so beautiful and she just took it all on, and it says a lot about her. I mean, she was supposed to stay for a week. She stayed for I think a couple of months if I recall, and and she was just absolutely brilliant. But by the end of that I was starting to feel like I was on top of my game.

Sarah Murdock's doing the Today Show was like, I mean, we were getting, you know, pummeled in the ratings. But Sarah Cable was like, Okay, if Sarah Murdock want to do the show, maybe we're going to be okay something right. She was so beautiful and she just took it all on, and it says a lot about her. I mean, she was supposed to stay for a week. She stayed for I think a couple of months if I recall, and and she was just absolutely brilliant. But by the end of that I was starting to feel like I was on top of my game.

So it took a good couple of years then until you really lost that.

So it took a good couple of years then until you really lost that.

Do you got Obviously, with the twentieth anniversary, I'm sure that there's going to be a lot of looking back over some of the most memorable moments.

Do you got Obviously, with the twentieth anniversary, I'm sure that there's going to be a lot of looking back over some of the most memorable moments.

Over the last two decades.

Over the last two decades.

But for you personally, do you ever go back and look at some of those moments, like the first day on set, some of those interviews where maybe a co host was saying, stop being so needy, and if so, what do you think.

But for you personally, do you ever go back and look at some of those moments, like the first day on set, some of those interviews where maybe a co host was saying, stop being so needy, and if so, what do you think.

I've only just done that this year, since I got back in day one, they've prepared this tape. They don't even call it tape now. I mean, all the kids out there who are producing a game, what is tape? Uncle Carlos. We don't have vhs anymore. But literally, I see the highlights. I've never looked back. I'm just not a look back kind of guy. You know, in a strange way, I feel awkward looking back, and you know, I just don't like looking at myself. So it is moments in big news events, and there have been many, and it's a great privilege to do that. I'm not going to say that I love being there for that, but that's the part of the job that I feel most responsibility for. When there's a big event that I feel like I can articulate to Australian viewers. So you know, there's some significant events in the past twenty years. I mean you just yeah, if you roll through them, that's.

I've only just done that this year, since I got back in day one, they've prepared this tape. They don't even call it tape now. I mean, all the kids out there who are producing a game, what is tape? Uncle Carlos. We don't have vhs anymore. But literally, I see the highlights. I've never looked back. I'm just not a look back kind of guy. You know, in a strange way, I feel awkward looking back, and you know, I just don't like looking at myself. So it is moments in big news events, and there have been many, and it's a great privilege to do that. I'm not going to say that I love being there for that, but that's the part of the job that I feel most responsibility for. When there's a big event that I feel like I can articulate to Australian viewers. So you know, there's some significant events in the past twenty years. I mean you just yeah, if you roll through them, that's.

Right, you yeah, for all of them.

Right, you yeah, for all of them.

Yeah, and did that because when you got that call from Genjel saying, hey, it's not sixty minutes, it's the Today Show.

Yeah, and did that because when you got that call from Genjel saying, hey, it's not sixty minutes, it's the Today Show.

Practically, that's a lot.

Practically, that's a lot.

To get your head around because there's a whole different time slot, and not just any time slot.

To get your head around because there's a whole different time slot, and not just any time slot.

That's when you were introduced to the Joys.

That's when you were introduced to the Joys.

I imagine of setting your alarm for whatever ungodly hour of day that you get out.

I imagine of setting your alarm for whatever ungodly hour of day that you get out.

How were those first few years.

How were those first few years.

I think that you just sink yourself into it and you don't really try and do anything else other than survive it. From a physical point of view and a mental point of view, it's brutal. And even after twenty years, you know, I've just you know, had a holiday, you come back and we're straight into fifty hours of TV in two weeks. The body adjusts, but I don't think the body adjusts in a great way. It's a real permanent jet lag, which I don't think is great for you. So I'm better at managing it now than I was, and I had a terrible dives. Get home and have fifteen toasted sandwiches, have a three hour sleep, you know, and live you know, a young person's lifestyle on the weekend and just send it and then try and chot for work on a Monday morning. And you know, back then it felt like it was I was okay to do that. But as you get older, in twenty years is a long time, the creeks start to, you know, appear, and you know, you've got to get more control of it now than I ever did.

I think that you just sink yourself into it and you don't really try and do anything else other than survive it. From a physical point of view and a mental point of view, it's brutal. And even after twenty years, you know, I've just you know, had a holiday, you come back and we're straight into fifty hours of TV in two weeks. The body adjusts, but I don't think the body adjusts in a great way. It's a real permanent jet lag, which I don't think is great for you. So I'm better at managing it now than I was, and I had a terrible dives. Get home and have fifteen toasted sandwiches, have a three hour sleep, you know, and live you know, a young person's lifestyle on the weekend and just send it and then try and chot for work on a Monday morning. And you know, back then it felt like it was I was okay to do that. But as you get older, in twenty years is a long time, the creeks start to, you know, appear, and you know, you've got to get more control of it now than I ever did.

How do you do that?

How do you do that?

Then you're obviously not going home and having the toasties and the three hour nap.

Then you're obviously not going home and having the toasties and the three hour nap.

What do you do?

What do you do?

Yeah?

Yeah?

I eat really light now. I only have like a couple of eggs in the morning. I still have I used to have three or four coffees. I now have one, and I have a like I have a lemon and ginger tea first thing in the morning.

I eat really light now. I only have like a couple of eggs in the morning. I still have I used to have three or four coffees. I now have one, and I have a like I have a lemon and ginger tea first thing in the morning.

God, who even are you?

God, who even are you?

I haven't turned into a proper bar and bay I.

I haven't turned into a proper bar and bay I.

Assure you you're one cup of tea away from it.

Assure you you're one cup of tea away from it.

Just during the week, says, But you know, I do have to kind of watch what I eat, and I have to get exercise as soon as I finish, to clear the head as much as anything else. And I'm just better at the cycle now. So I will do, you know, a bunch of checks during any course of the day on different international websites, local websites, news websites, Instagram, TikTok. I'll pick out stuff during the course of the day rather than cramming at it. At three o'clock in the morning, I'll give myself forty five minutes more sleep than I used to. So it used to be three o'clock up, now it's three forty five. I literally get out of bed with my pajamas on, get in the car, drive to work, and then pechase yep. And then I've got literally no shoes on, like I'm a proper kid from Cans, a proper Bogain. But I sit down there, I'll read the newspapers. I've got Sky News on UK and I've got it down to a really fine art what I need to do in order to get prepared for the show. And if I'm prepared for a show, it means that I can be present in any given moment, and I think that's the most vital thing for me. I can't talk for anyone else. But if I'm prepared, and I'm able to literally sink into the moment and be aware of the moments and allow myself to be in the moment, then I can create a broadcast that I think is hopefully interesting to the viewer.

Just during the week, says, But you know, I do have to kind of watch what I eat, and I have to get exercise as soon as I finish, to clear the head as much as anything else. And I'm just better at the cycle now. So I will do, you know, a bunch of checks during any course of the day on different international websites, local websites, news websites, Instagram, TikTok. I'll pick out stuff during the course of the day rather than cramming at it. At three o'clock in the morning, I'll give myself forty five minutes more sleep than I used to. So it used to be three o'clock up, now it's three forty five. I literally get out of bed with my pajamas on, get in the car, drive to work, and then pechase yep. And then I've got literally no shoes on, like I'm a proper kid from Cans, a proper Bogain. But I sit down there, I'll read the newspapers. I've got Sky News on UK and I've got it down to a really fine art what I need to do in order to get prepared for the show. And if I'm prepared for a show, it means that I can be present in any given moment, and I think that's the most vital thing for me. I can't talk for anyone else. But if I'm prepared, and I'm able to literally sink into the moment and be aware of the moments and allow myself to be in the moment, then I can create a broadcast that I think is hopefully interesting to the viewer.

And those news events and the breaking news that we've talked about, and obviously what would have been appealing about the sixty minutes gig has clearly been satisfied through the work that you've done in that area on the Today Show. What about the lighter side of it? Because there's obviously people talk about the nature of breakfast TV, the sheer hours that you're doing, but the depth of it. So one moment you could be interviewing the Prime Minister and then the next minute you're doing some crazy stunt where someone's dared you to eat like a chili pie and you're talking to the next person that's just been booted off maths before or whatever. When did you start to lean into that lighter side of it?

And those news events and the breaking news that we've talked about, and obviously what would have been appealing about the sixty minutes gig has clearly been satisfied through the work that you've done in that area on the Today Show. What about the lighter side of it? Because there's obviously people talk about the nature of breakfast TV, the sheer hours that you're doing, but the depth of it. So one moment you could be interviewing the Prime Minister and then the next minute you're doing some crazy stunt where someone's dared you to eat like a chili pie and you're talking to the next person that's just been booted off maths before or whatever. When did you start to lean into that lighter side of it?

I think probably I've got an undiagnosed disorder. I don't mean that in too much of a frivolous way, but it's probably adhd of some kind of I like welcome.

I think probably I've got an undiagnosed disorder. I don't mean that in too much of a frivolous way, but it's probably adhd of some kind of I like welcome.

I think there are a lot more of us than people.

I think there are a lot more of us than people.

But that certainly lends itself to Brecky TV. It's you know, I love light the lighter side of life as well, and I like the balance. I've got better at the transitions, but you know, at the end of the day, my job is to inform and it's to entertain, and I love doing that. People have shit lives, you know, and they go through an awful lot in their lives. People are going through stuff you can't imagine, and they tune in. People in you know, in hospitals have sent me messages saying they have cancer and they're dying. But you provide a lightness to my day. Now, that's a great honor, right. So whilst there might be criticism around it or for me, it's a really important job and I love it. I really love it. And over the years, I mean, god, we had some fun. Lisa and I had so much fun, and she actually she taught me so much about what we were saying before, about that transition to be able to have a conversation on air. She was vital in all of that for me, Like She was such a great friend but such a great exponent of chitchat about anything. I mean literally, I could sit down at a table with her for four days in front of a camera and we could just chitchat. So she was an incredible influence for me in that regard. So, you know, along the way, learning to be able to do that, to be able to have a laugh and then transition into serious stuff when you need to for it not to jolt the audience is partly a trust thing for the audience, but mostly it's the experience of time that people have with you.

But that certainly lends itself to Brecky TV. It's you know, I love light the lighter side of life as well, and I like the balance. I've got better at the transitions, but you know, at the end of the day, my job is to inform and it's to entertain, and I love doing that. People have shit lives, you know, and they go through an awful lot in their lives. People are going through stuff you can't imagine, and they tune in. People in you know, in hospitals have sent me messages saying they have cancer and they're dying. But you provide a lightness to my day. Now, that's a great honor, right. So whilst there might be criticism around it or for me, it's a really important job and I love it. I really love it. And over the years, I mean, god, we had some fun. Lisa and I had so much fun, and she actually she taught me so much about what we were saying before, about that transition to be able to have a conversation on air. She was vital in all of that for me, Like She was such a great friend but such a great exponent of chitchat about anything. I mean literally, I could sit down at a table with her for four days in front of a camera and we could just chitchat. So she was an incredible influence for me in that regard. So, you know, along the way, learning to be able to do that, to be able to have a laugh and then transition into serious stuff when you need to for it not to jolt the audience is partly a trust thing for the audience, but mostly it's the experience of time that people have with you.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I mean I have known you for ten years. I'm a panelist on the Today Show, and I've seen breaking news develop and had to see you and your co hosts just pivot to use the dreaded COVID word five years on in a heartbeat.

I mean I have known you for ten years. I'm a panelist on the Today Show, and I've seen breaking news develop and had to see you and your co hosts just pivot to use the dreaded COVID word five years on in a heartbeat.

And I think it's an agility.

And I think it's an agility.

That is really something that only those flying hours on air could deliver.

That is really something that only those flying hours on air could deliver.

I don't think anyone could just come in and do that from day one.

I don't think anyone could just come in and do that from day one.

Yeah, I think I'm really aware of how the show is looking too and how it feels. It's probably my best skill is that I'm empathetic, and I've got this ability, and I want to feel what the audience is feeling. I want to climb in of that. And that's why you'll forever see me. I'm always watching a monitor because I'm watching what the audience, the aden is seeing, and if, for whatever reason, I feel like, you know, I might see something if I'm connected and in the moment, oh, that's got to be interesting, I'll just pivot on it. Now. Sometimes that'll be uncomfortable for the audience. And when I get it wrong, like I have the worst sense of humor in the history of the world. Like it's shocking. It's shocking to me that when I pivot sometimes and get it catastrophically wrong, how I've still got a job. I mean, it's just it's like I have such a bad sense of humor. But it's that's balanced that terrible sense of humor with the absolute stupidity to follow through on it.

Yeah, I think I'm really aware of how the show is looking too and how it feels. It's probably my best skill is that I'm empathetic, and I've got this ability, and I want to feel what the audience is feeling. I want to climb in of that. And that's why you'll forever see me. I'm always watching a monitor because I'm watching what the audience, the aden is seeing, and if, for whatever reason, I feel like, you know, I might see something if I'm connected and in the moment, oh, that's got to be interesting, I'll just pivot on it. Now. Sometimes that'll be uncomfortable for the audience. And when I get it wrong, like I have the worst sense of humor in the history of the world. Like it's shocking. It's shocking to me that when I pivot sometimes and get it catastrophically wrong, how I've still got a job. I mean, it's just it's like I have such a bad sense of humor. But it's that's balanced that terrible sense of humor with the absolute stupidity to follow through on it.

That's what you've got to be brave as well as sense of humor.

That's what you've got to be brave as well as sense of humor.

I think it's just I think it's just, you know, I'll just jump in because that part of my brain that's probably good at deciphering and communicating news, you know, when it's something funny like Koshi his favorite show being bump whatever that stupid gag was. I'll say it, yeah, yeah, and there is a filter. But in the back of my mind, I'm like, hang on, I will buger it. You know, this will give people a bit of a laugh, and at the end of the day, I do like, you know, the idea of making people laugh and feel something.

I think it's just I think it's just, you know, I'll just jump in because that part of my brain that's probably good at deciphering and communicating news, you know, when it's something funny like Koshi his favorite show being bump whatever that stupid gag was. I'll say it, yeah, yeah, and there is a filter. But in the back of my mind, I'm like, hang on, I will buger it. You know, this will give people a bit of a laugh, and at the end of the day, I do like, you know, the idea of making people laugh and feel something.

And it's at risk evaluation, isn't it, because you know that there's a chance that this might be the joke that there's going to be a flurry of headlines. Everyone on social media is going to go down into a meltdown. You'll be quote unquote canceled. But then there's.

And it's at risk evaluation, isn't it, because you know that there's a chance that this might be the joke that there's going to be a flurry of headlines. Everyone on social media is going to go down into a meltdown. You'll be quote unquote canceled. But then there's.

Also all the jokes that create.

Also all the jokes that create.

Your persona and have contributed to his twenty years of doing that job.

Your persona and have contributed to his twenty years of doing that job.

I think Koshi loving bumps was one that I thought maybe I didn't need to say that, But then I got off stage and my wife just went, oh, that was terrible, and that actually made me laugh, And so this is how strange I am, like, oh, that's I think that. I think she liked it, even though she said it was horrendous.

I think Koshi loving bumps was one that I thought maybe I didn't need to say that, But then I got off stage and my wife just went, oh, that was terrible, and that actually made me laugh, And so this is how strange I am, like, oh, that's I think that. I think she liked it, even though she said it was horrendous.

So then at what point, if ever, did you think, oh, maybe I shouldn't have said, I don't.

So then at what point, if ever, did you think, oh, maybe I shouldn't have said, I don't.

Think I don't. It's like, if it happens, it happens. You know, I'm surprised. I guess some days that I haven't been canceled. But it is what it is. I hope that I don't offend people too often. And there's not ill will in any of it, ever, And if I have caused any hurd or harm, I will apologize.

Think I don't. It's like, if it happens, it happens. You know, I'm surprised. I guess some days that I haven't been canceled. But it is what it is. I hope that I don't offend people too often. And there's not ill will in any of it, ever, And if I have caused any hurd or harm, I will apologize.

You will you have and you have. And if there has been a time where you've caused defense and you really didn't realize that and you've become aware of that, you have then And I use the word brave before, maybe a bit facetiously, but that genuinely is that takes a strength of character and I think courage to say I really didn't mean to cause offense, genuinely, not in the you know, pr written version of theology, a genuine apologies.

You will you have and you have. And if there has been a time where you've caused defense and you really didn't realize that and you've become aware of that, you have then And I use the word brave before, maybe a bit facetiously, but that genuinely is that takes a strength of character and I think courage to say I really didn't mean to cause offense, genuinely, not in the you know, pr written version of theology, a genuine apologies.

I think it's Peter Meakin said something like if you if you're going to you know, up, then f up quickly. And I think that there's, you know, there's some validity to that. But we live in very different times now. Even though there was you know, always newspaper criticism or radio criticism and then online criticism. Now it's I think it's getting more difficult. There are so many different there's been a proliferation of alternate voices that have come through the media. Now legacy media, I think attracts more of that attention because there are more voices. So it stands to reason that anyone in my position is probably more than likely going to need to have their hard hat at the ready more often. And you've got to have a thick skin. You've got to believe in what you're doing, and you cry yourself to sleep and get up in the morning and go back to work because there are people out there who legitimately get something out of it. And while I feel that I'll keep doing it.

I think it's Peter Meakin said something like if you if you're going to you know, up, then f up quickly. And I think that there's, you know, there's some validity to that. But we live in very different times now. Even though there was you know, always newspaper criticism or radio criticism and then online criticism. Now it's I think it's getting more difficult. There are so many different there's been a proliferation of alternate voices that have come through the media. Now legacy media, I think attracts more of that attention because there are more voices. So it stands to reason that anyone in my position is probably more than likely going to need to have their hard hat at the ready more often. And you've got to have a thick skin. You've got to believe in what you're doing, and you cry yourself to sleep and get up in the morning and go back to work because there are people out there who legitimately get something out of it. And while I feel that I'll keep doing it.

You were talking before about jess of course being Jessica Row, your co host, who joined in two thousand and six, and as you said, there was so much unfair commentary and so much vitriol directed.

You were talking before about jess of course being Jessica Row, your co host, who joined in two thousand and six, and as you said, there was so much unfair commentary and so much vitriol directed.

At her, a lot of it.

At her, a lot of it.

I would like to think sometimes that level of cruelty we wouldn't see today, And then I think, well, actually social media and also mainstream media, maybe it would even be worse. Having navigated that twenty years. Just further to the point, you were just making about this eva present threat of quote unquote cancelation. What do you think do you think it's gotten better since what Jess went through.

I would like to think sometimes that level of cruelty we wouldn't see today, And then I think, well, actually social media and also mainstream media, maybe it would even be worse. Having navigated that twenty years. Just further to the point, you were just making about this eva present threat of quote unquote cancelation. What do you think do you think it's gotten better since what Jess went through.

I think Jess went through a form of media execution that was so public at the time when we didn't have, you know, the keyboard warriors, So in a way, it was more embarrassing for her because it was you know, really well known publications going to a lot of people, a lot of you know, industry people as well as the public, and that kind of thing horrendous. I don't know whether it's the same as someone getting on your Instagram and having a go, but there are so many more avenues now for keyboard warriors to attack and to hide their identities. You have to be you have to choose to dance the dance or walk away. It's the reality of it. Because I don't listen to any of it, you know, in mainstream legacy media or on the Internet, because it just doesn't affect me. You know, I've built up, I've been through a fair few pylons, and some by my own design. But you have to you have to make the decision that something's not going to impact on the way you do the job and if you can't, you can't, and there's there's no you know, I feel genuinely sorry. I mean to see it happen almost every day, but for a lot of people, the first burn and the first cut is the deepest and they won't recover. So, you know, I think that would be the one thing these days that it's on such a big scale that you know, you have to be prepared for that, and you have to be ready for the decision on whether or not you're going to suck it up and get on with it or you know, it can have some brutal consequences, you know, and I've been through. I've been through a fair share of those. They don't worry me. But it's like, you know, recently, when Harper went missing on you know, on the Sunshine Coast. You know, I mean, this stuff happens, But there was a paparazzi there that day for whatever reason, and that was captured and that's part of my life and I don't understand it. And who wants to get a shot of a fifty year old dude after you know, Christmas lunch coming out of the surf, by the way, The beautiful shots shocking, But when something like that happens and someone gets it, that's fine. And you know, my wife was very very upset that day. But I also had my kids there, my older kids, and the paparazzi got shots of my older kids, and this is traumatic. We didn't know where Harper was traumatic for everyone because we feared the worst, honestly, of course. And my daughter Aver came back from the beach and said, there's a paparazzi getting shots at us, and you know, they were in a real bind. And I think that stuff goes too far with family. But for me, you know, I've got to accept that that's part of my life. And you know, again, are you choosing to buy in or or you're getting out? And for the moment, that's where I am.

I think Jess went through a form of media execution that was so public at the time when we didn't have, you know, the keyboard warriors, So in a way, it was more embarrassing for her because it was you know, really well known publications going to a lot of people, a lot of you know, industry people as well as the public, and that kind of thing horrendous. I don't know whether it's the same as someone getting on your Instagram and having a go, but there are so many more avenues now for keyboard warriors to attack and to hide their identities. You have to be you have to choose to dance the dance or walk away. It's the reality of it. Because I don't listen to any of it, you know, in mainstream legacy media or on the Internet, because it just doesn't affect me. You know, I've built up, I've been through a fair few pylons, and some by my own design. But you have to you have to make the decision that something's not going to impact on the way you do the job and if you can't, you can't, and there's there's no you know, I feel genuinely sorry. I mean to see it happen almost every day, but for a lot of people, the first burn and the first cut is the deepest and they won't recover. So, you know, I think that would be the one thing these days that it's on such a big scale that you know, you have to be prepared for that, and you have to be ready for the decision on whether or not you're going to suck it up and get on with it or you know, it can have some brutal consequences, you know, and I've been through. I've been through a fair share of those. They don't worry me. But it's like, you know, recently, when Harper went missing on you know, on the Sunshine Coast. You know, I mean, this stuff happens, But there was a paparazzi there that day for whatever reason, and that was captured and that's part of my life and I don't understand it. And who wants to get a shot of a fifty year old dude after you know, Christmas lunch coming out of the surf, by the way, The beautiful shots shocking, But when something like that happens and someone gets it, that's fine. And you know, my wife was very very upset that day. But I also had my kids there, my older kids, and the paparazzi got shots of my older kids, and this is traumatic. We didn't know where Harper was traumatic for everyone because we feared the worst, honestly, of course. And my daughter Aver came back from the beach and said, there's a paparazzi getting shots at us, and you know, they were in a real bind. And I think that stuff goes too far with family. But for me, you know, I've got to accept that that's part of my life. And you know, again, are you choosing to buy in or or you're getting out? And for the moment, that's where I am.

I was going to ask you about that time when you went on holidays, the beginning of your Christmas break and Harper went missing. I think every parent knows that is the worst fear, is your child missing and that awful window where you don't know where they are, what outside of that awful horror of the moment, and then the media intrusion making it difficult in the impact on your family. Did that shift your perspective on life as you came back to work and start your twentieth year on air.

I was going to ask you about that time when you went on holidays, the beginning of your Christmas break and Harper went missing. I think every parent knows that is the worst fear, is your child missing and that awful window where you don't know where they are, what outside of that awful horror of the moment, and then the media intrusion making it difficult in the impact on your family. Did that shift your perspective on life as you came back to work and start your twentieth year on air.

I think, you know, it doesn't it doesn't shift my view. I don't you know, the intrusion aspect of it, that's part of the deal, you know. I can't complain about that. What I prefer my kids not to be photographed, yes, but genuinely, when you have your child go missing, the police come and search the house, the police can't find her, and there's a beach, there's bushland. The police arrive, they've got dogs, they've got you know, a chopper in the air. And then and you're being interviewed by police. It's like, you know. And then my wife was so distraught because she thought her little one was you know, you know, it was gone. And and I remember I got on I got on the bike and I was, I was. I was riding down the street on the on my vesper and and I remember these tears just like falling down my face because I've been around, I've done these stories and the first half an hour is crucial, right, And so I'm riding on the street, I'm crying. I get back and my wife's like, you know, she was so upset, and then my daughter comes running outside and she goes I found her. I found that she's under the chair, like we had these covers on these chairs and she's gone up under the chair and she's fallen asleep. And no, it's it was it was, you know, so to go through those emotions and then the elation is like and then you run into people at the pub, like five hours later at the pub they're like, mate, did you look at the bloody house? You're bloody idiot? What's wrong with you? St But then there are most people are like, god, it's most people have been through it.

I think, you know, it doesn't it doesn't shift my view. I don't you know, the intrusion aspect of it, that's part of the deal, you know. I can't complain about that. What I prefer my kids not to be photographed, yes, but genuinely, when you have your child go missing, the police come and search the house, the police can't find her, and there's a beach, there's bushland. The police arrive, they've got dogs, they've got you know, a chopper in the air. And then and you're being interviewed by police. It's like, you know. And then my wife was so distraught because she thought her little one was you know, you know, it was gone. And and I remember I got on I got on the bike and I was, I was. I was riding down the street on the on my vesper and and I remember these tears just like falling down my face because I've been around, I've done these stories and the first half an hour is crucial, right, And so I'm riding on the street, I'm crying. I get back and my wife's like, you know, she was so upset, and then my daughter comes running outside and she goes I found her. I found that she's under the chair, like we had these covers on these chairs and she's gone up under the chair and she's fallen asleep. And no, it's it was it was, you know, so to go through those emotions and then the elation is like and then you run into people at the pub, like five hours later at the pub they're like, mate, did you look at the bloody house? You're bloody idiot? What's wrong with you? St But then there are most people are like, god, it's most people have been through it.

Yes, but even for two minutes in the supermarket, it's the worst.

Yes, but even for two minutes in the supermarket, it's the worst.

The good news is that I had the you know, the paparazzi that to record it forevermore So, when she turns twenty one.

The good news is that I had the you know, the paparazzi that to record it forevermore So, when she turns twenty one.

You got you can add it to the to the slide show how are you all doing now? Because I mean, that is genuinely a traumatic experience to the.

You got you can add it to the to the slide show how are you all doing now? Because I mean, that is genuinely a traumatic experience to the.

Child has found the moment the crisis is over. And Peter fitz Simon's always said to me, you know back in the day, that you're only as happy as you know as your most unhappy child, and I think for us as a family, we had I had all my kids there and to see them, you know, genuinely, you know, first of all so upset, but then really happy that Harper was okay. Was it was in the end of bonding experience. But that little girl, she is going to be problematic. I just feel the energy in her. I feel like she's like she's a bit of a smart alec. She genuinely loves causing dramas. And I don't know where she got it from.

Child has found the moment the crisis is over. And Peter fitz Simon's always said to me, you know back in the day, that you're only as happy as you know as your most unhappy child, and I think for us as a family, we had I had all my kids there and to see them, you know, genuinely, you know, first of all so upset, but then really happy that Harper was okay. Was it was in the end of bonding experience. But that little girl, she is going to be problematic. I just feel the energy in her. I feel like she's like she's a bit of a smart alec. She genuinely loves causing dramas. And I don't know where she got it from.

I don't know where she got it from either, must be her mom. Do you think it must be jazz? Yeah, yeah, I can't think where it would be.

I don't know where she got it from either, must be her mom. Do you think it must be jazz? Yeah, yeah, I can't think where it would be.

Yeah, and she doesn't. She's horrible looking and terrible sense of humor. And I feel like I worry about her a lot.

Yeah, and she doesn't. She's horrible looking and terrible sense of humor. And I feel like I worry about her a lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No.

No.

I see an interesting future for Harper. I will look forward.

I see an interesting future for Harper. I will look forward.

To interviewing her in fifty years about her twenty.

To interviewing her in fifty years about her twenty.

Years co hosting fifty Years a Breakfast TV.

Years co hosting fifty Years a Breakfast TV.

Show, And up next, Karl opens up about his relationship with Lisa Wilkinson and why he says he won't work with anyone other than his current co host Sarah Arbo. You mentioned Peter Fitzimon's there, and you mentioned Lisa earlier, and he said, you and Lisa Wilkinson, if you sat down, you could like chat for four days, the time that you would have spent on air together. I'm not very good at maths, like most journals that I imagine would exceed well beyond four days. She was actually your longest serving co host. She was there for ten years. It's nice to hear just you talking about her in that way that you were these people that navigated that crazy world of those hours and all of those interviews and the things that went amazingly well and winning the ratings and then things going badly, and you both went through a lot in your personal lives during that ten years.

Show, And up next, Karl opens up about his relationship with Lisa Wilkinson and why he says he won't work with anyone other than his current co host Sarah Arbo. You mentioned Peter Fitzimon's there, and you mentioned Lisa earlier, and he said, you and Lisa Wilkinson, if you sat down, you could like chat for four days, the time that you would have spent on air together. I'm not very good at maths, like most journals that I imagine would exceed well beyond four days. She was actually your longest serving co host. She was there for ten years. It's nice to hear just you talking about her in that way that you were these people that navigated that crazy world of those hours and all of those interviews and the things that went amazingly well and winning the ratings and then things going badly, and you both went through a lot in your personal lives during that ten years.

Obviously, literally books.

Obviously, literally books.

Have been written about that dynamic.

Have been written about that dynamic.

When you look back at you doing for twenty years, twenty years, what.

When you look back at you doing for twenty years, twenty years, what.

Are your recollections of that partnership.

Are your recollections of that partnership.

So genuinely, as I get older, I don't want to waste any of my life thinking about, as much as I can, any negative parts of life when you've had a long time with someone, That's hard to do. But this is what I will say about Lisa. Genuinely adored working with her. I found her to be an incredibly interesting, intelligent, funny, funny woman. Like I said, she taught me so much about the craft of conversation and we had a really beautiful, beautiful relationship. We did some terrific trips together around Australia. I remember dancing with her in New York and live on air and then going everyone went out to dinner and to a nightclub. And so for me, there is no ill will and only great things came from that. I think at the end of the day, these on air relationships, right, it's not normal. No you get I don't think.

So genuinely, as I get older, I don't want to waste any of my life thinking about, as much as I can, any negative parts of life when you've had a long time with someone, That's hard to do. But this is what I will say about Lisa. Genuinely adored working with her. I found her to be an incredibly interesting, intelligent, funny, funny woman. Like I said, she taught me so much about the craft of conversation and we had a really beautiful, beautiful relationship. We did some terrific trips together around Australia. I remember dancing with her in New York and live on air and then going everyone went out to dinner and to a nightclub. And so for me, there is no ill will and only great things came from that. I think at the end of the day, these on air relationships, right, it's not normal. No you get I don't think.

You do, says you wake up it.

You do, says you wake up it.

You wake up at three in the morning, you go to work, you see someone in only the way that their partner would without makeup.

You wake up at three in the morning, you go to work, you see someone in only the way that their partner would without makeup.

That goes to the dudes as well.

That goes to the dudes as well.

I've got a bajet Amazon, my vegimite pajamas and bare feet. It's not normal to have a conversation at that hour of the day. It's not normal to think and articulate a question to a Prime minister at that day. It's not normal to sit next to someone and have a spirited argument with someone at that hour. It's a miracle that people go beyond three years. We did ten years, So as far as I'm concerned, you know, some marriages don't last that long, and for us to have gone ten years, I think, you know, wooho to us, And that's I will compartmentalize that as a great period in my life in all honesty.

I've got a bajet Amazon, my vegimite pajamas and bare feet. It's not normal to have a conversation at that hour of the day. It's not normal to think and articulate a question to a Prime minister at that day. It's not normal to sit next to someone and have a spirited argument with someone at that hour. It's a miracle that people go beyond three years. We did ten years, So as far as I'm concerned, you know, some marriages don't last that long, and for us to have gone ten years, I think, you know, wooho to us, And that's I will compartmentalize that as a great period in my life in all honesty.

And then after Lisa left, Georgie Gardner came on, and then a year later, after you and Jasmine got married, at the end of twenty eighteen, you were actually stood down from the show for that twelve months.

And then after Lisa left, Georgie Gardner came on, and then a year later, after you and Jasmine got married, at the end of twenty eighteen, you were actually stood down from the show for that twelve months.

How is that.

How is that.

Time then and how was it now when you look at it within the wider context of these two decades in the.

Time then and how was it now when you look at it within the wider context of these two decades in the.

Role, I would say that it was painful to let go be let go from the show so soon after my wedding. It was like a couple of days. And that's something that I'll hold on too. I remember there there was a shot at the wedding of everyone, including some of my family members, who were let go not long after, and and that was painful because I felt, I genuinely felt that it was my fault. And at the end of the day, all I was doing was getting married. I was in love, and I just didn't feel like we did anything wrong. But whatever happened and decisions that were made led to that, and I've just got it. I just want you know, I've made my orgies. But it was it was a difficult, really difficult time. But you know, then not long after that, I got to have a year off with Jasmine. I got to do fifteen you know, you know, terrific trips inside Australia with my new partner wife, and we got to actually spend time together, which was a gift. And I got to rebuild myself in the way that I wanted to, you know, to come back into the work environment. And you know, there are some things that you know that you know, I learned from that, but at the end of the day, I want to do it my way, and I will do it my way. And that year off, basically, you know, taught me that if you're prepared to do that, then cop whatever you need to cop, but be resolute in that pursuit because there's no other way. There's just no other way.

Role, I would say that it was painful to let go be let go from the show so soon after my wedding. It was like a couple of days. And that's something that I'll hold on too. I remember there there was a shot at the wedding of everyone, including some of my family members, who were let go not long after, and and that was painful because I felt, I genuinely felt that it was my fault. And at the end of the day, all I was doing was getting married. I was in love, and I just didn't feel like we did anything wrong. But whatever happened and decisions that were made led to that, and I've just got it. I just want you know, I've made my orgies. But it was it was a difficult, really difficult time. But you know, then not long after that, I got to have a year off with Jasmine. I got to do fifteen you know, you know, terrific trips inside Australia with my new partner wife, and we got to actually spend time together, which was a gift. And I got to rebuild myself in the way that I wanted to, you know, to come back into the work environment. And you know, there are some things that you know that you know, I learned from that, but at the end of the day, I want to do it my way, and I will do it my way. And that year off, basically, you know, taught me that if you're prepared to do that, then cop whatever you need to cop, but be resolute in that pursuit because there's no other way. There's just no other way.

It was definitely tested at that time. Yeah, and a big challenge also for it for a new marriage twenty.

It was definitely tested at that time. Yeah, and a big challenge also for it for a new marriage twenty.

I marvel at her, I mean, just just on that. I mean, she's such a strong woman. She did not. I mean, you know, there was there was never a crossover between you know, my previous marriage and none of that's easy to talk about, but it's there was never a crossover. I didn't never anticipate that I would fall in love, you know, six months after you know, a tragic marriage, marriage breakdown, but it happened. It's me here, I am. You know, I'm just going to try and roll on. But her strength, I mean her you know, funniest thing she ever says to me, and the thing she most says to me is, you know, when there's paparazzi around that you're not brad pit, you know what's wrong with you? But but for me, she's She's dealt with a lot and there's a lot of stuff that people don't say and wouldn't be aware of that she handles with grace and humor. And you know, I doubt I'd be here without her.

I marvel at her, I mean, just just on that. I mean, she's such a strong woman. She did not. I mean, you know, there was there was never a crossover between you know, my previous marriage and none of that's easy to talk about, but it's there was never a crossover. I didn't never anticipate that I would fall in love, you know, six months after you know, a tragic marriage, marriage breakdown, but it happened. It's me here, I am. You know, I'm just going to try and roll on. But her strength, I mean her you know, funniest thing she ever says to me, and the thing she most says to me is, you know, when there's paparazzi around that you're not brad pit, you know what's wrong with you? But but for me, she's She's dealt with a lot and there's a lot of stuff that people don't say and wouldn't be aware of that she handles with grace and humor. And you know, I doubt I'd be here without her.

Has it gotten easier for her than Carl? You've been married now for six years.

Has it gotten easier for her than Carl? You've been married now for six years.

She doesn't like that.

She doesn't like that.

She hates the I know it's going to sound funny, but she literally is a woman who she gets so nervous in front of people. She was a model yes, but she doesn't like being in front of the camera. She won't do interviews. She just she really kind of you know, she knows I'm in the game, and she's a great consumer of media, but she don't want to be in it. So it'll be rare to ever see her. And that's kind of nice, you know, and it's nice for me, you know.

She hates the I know it's going to sound funny, but she literally is a woman who she gets so nervous in front of people. She was a model yes, but she doesn't like being in front of the camera. She won't do interviews. She just she really kind of you know, she knows I'm in the game, and she's a great consumer of media, but she don't want to be in it. So it'll be rare to ever see her. And that's kind of nice, you know, and it's nice for me, you know.

But do you feel that some of that vitriol and that judgment that you in particular when navigating when you're married ended and there.

But do you feel that some of that vitriol and that judgment that you in particular when navigating when you're married ended and there.

Was so much grudiny.

Was so much grudiny.

You and I sat down for a big sit down interview in July twenty seventeen. You at that point were the most hounded man in the country.

You and I sat down for a big sit down interview in July twenty seventeen. You at that point were the most hounded man in the country.

Some days you may still feel like you are.

Some days you may still feel like you are.

And then you know, Jasmine, then definitely you talked earlier about how your marriage there were other people in the family that became collateral damage, and as you say, then Jasmine got caught up in that narrative too. But I, as an observer, would have thought that then being married, You've been married for six years, your beautiful daughter harper a lot of that assumptions and people thinking they know what's going on here and making you know, easy jibes I would have thought that some of that has evaporated and there's more goodwill towards you as a couple and by extension for her.

And then you know, Jasmine, then definitely you talked earlier about how your marriage there were other people in the family that became collateral damage, and as you say, then Jasmine got caught up in that narrative too. But I, as an observer, would have thought that then being married, You've been married for six years, your beautiful daughter harper a lot of that assumptions and people thinking they know what's going on here and making you know, easy jibes I would have thought that some of that has evaporated and there's more goodwill towards you as a couple and by extension for her.

I think we just don't we don't buy into it now where you know, we're in a position where we don't have to, you know, when not getting hammered every day by it all. It's now more a surprise an aberration that someone is there taking photographs. So the heats come out of it, and that's that's a good thing. I mean, God, when it's on, you've got I guarantee you if a paparazzi followed anyone in the general public around every day for a year, they're going to find some shit.

I think we just don't we don't buy into it now where you know, we're in a position where we don't have to, you know, when not getting hammered every day by it all. It's now more a surprise an aberration that someone is there taking photographs. So the heats come out of it, and that's that's a good thing. I mean, God, when it's on, you've got I guarantee you if a paparazzi followed anyone in the general public around every day for a year, they're going to find some shit.

Well they did for me for like three or four years, and you.

Well they did for me for like three or four years, and you.

Know it hasn't It definitely has an impact. But now we're in you know, it's such a lovely life and I'm so grateful for you know, everything that even the pain, I've learned a lot out of the you know, the challenges, I've learned a lot out of. And I'm just a dude who loves doing what he's doing and loves his family. And even this last trip in NUSA was you know, with all the kids around, and you know, it's wonderful. No, no, it's not to say that there aren't things going on all the time, and there are and significant things, but you know, I feel very very grateful. I mean, this is the thing about twenty years in TV, right. The hardest thing about the Today Show is not the show, it's the life in between and what you can handle, what you can take to be able to muscle into the show because you feel like, you know, you have an obligation to and dealing with life outside of it, but being able to show up is very very difficult. Sometimes are you man or woman enough to do it? And you know, if you can't, you can't. But for me, it's like it's been a one constant this show when there's been a lot of life lived on the edges.

Know it hasn't It definitely has an impact. But now we're in you know, it's such a lovely life and I'm so grateful for you know, everything that even the pain, I've learned a lot out of the you know, the challenges, I've learned a lot out of. And I'm just a dude who loves doing what he's doing and loves his family. And even this last trip in NUSA was you know, with all the kids around, and you know, it's wonderful. No, no, it's not to say that there aren't things going on all the time, and there are and significant things, but you know, I feel very very grateful. I mean, this is the thing about twenty years in TV, right. The hardest thing about the Today Show is not the show, it's the life in between and what you can handle, what you can take to be able to muscle into the show because you feel like, you know, you have an obligation to and dealing with life outside of it, but being able to show up is very very difficult. Sometimes are you man or woman enough to do it? And you know, if you can't, you can't. But for me, it's like it's been a one constant this show when there's been a lot of life lived on the edges.

You talked about rebuilding a little bit professionally in that year that you weren't on out and then you came back in twenty twenty. Ali Langdon was your co host. Of course, little thing called COVID came along, so again talk about breaking news and developing stories.

You talked about rebuilding a little bit professionally in that year that you weren't on out and then you came back in twenty twenty. Ali Langdon was your co host. Of course, little thing called COVID came along, so again talk about breaking news and developing stories.

I mean, what a time to be well, obviously a.

I mean, what a time to be well, obviously a.

Human being for everyone, but of course working in the media and navigating that sort of broadcast. How was it when you came back?

Human being for everyone, but of course working in the media and navigating that sort of broadcast. How was it when you came back?

Well, I wouldn't be back if it wasn't for Ali Langdon and she is one of my best friends in the world, her and her husband Mike. But if Ali didn't want to work with me, then I wouldn't be back on the Today Show, as simple as that. And there's some crazy, messed up part of Ali that made her think it was a good idea. And I'll be forever grateful for that, because you know, I may not be back doing this. Whatever else I would have been doing, I'm not sure. But it was a great thing, and we had an amazing partnership. I admired her so much. We were in the thick of it with COVID and it was great camaraderie. We were sometimes in that studio and we were the only people, you know, in the whole building. And then she fell off her you know, a surfboard thing they call the wakeboard, motorized things and shed and so she was going through, you know, this terrible pain and she's muscling in. But she is dealing with so much and she she muscled in every day. You can't hold this woman back from doing a job. So out of all that three years with her flew by, and that story was as big as they come. But through it all it was she was incredibly professional. We did the Queen's death together and then current affair came up and I said to her, you've got to go for it because of the synergy with with Mike Willisey and and she goes, I hadn't even thought of it, and I said, you just got to because it's such a you know, it's such a perfect job for you. And she went for it and was sad, you know, but we're still great friends. We see each other all the time and I love her. I love her forever. And you know, fortunately for me, God there's been a lot of women.