Cool zone media.

Cool zone media.

Some kids played football. Homer built rockets. Everyone knows a kid like that from high school, right Like, while you were stone out of your mind slogging through the newest Final Fantasy game and getting fingered at the latest worst installment of Indiana Jones. Not speaking from experience, an ambitious few were building fucking rockets. Such was the case for Homer Hickam in the fall of nineteen fifty seven, when he was just fourteen years old. And I know we're supposed to be like, oh, a prodigy, but they're just making the rest of us look bad, I mean, unbelievable. But if there were ever a time for kids to be interested in building rockets, this was the time. Nineteen fifty seven marked the beginning of the space race between the US and Russia, who, if you didn't know, are totally cool with each other now. Spot Nick one, the world's first artificial satellite, was launched by the USSR on October five.

Some kids played football. Homer built rockets. Everyone knows a kid like that from high school, right Like, while you were stone out of your mind slogging through the newest Final Fantasy game and getting fingered at the latest worst installment of Indiana Jones. Not speaking from experience, an ambitious few were building fucking rockets. Such was the case for Homer Hickam in the fall of nineteen fifty seven, when he was just fourteen years old. And I know we're supposed to be like, oh, a prodigy, but they're just making the rest of us look bad, I mean, unbelievable. But if there were ever a time for kids to be interested in building rockets, this was the time. Nineteen fifty seven marked the beginning of the space race between the US and Russia, who, if you didn't know, are totally cool with each other now. Spot Nick one, the world's first artificial satellite, was launched by the USSR on October five.

As if this weren't cool enough, they then launched a.

As if this weren't cool enough, they then launched a.

Damn dog into space shout out Laika that November. Meanwhile, in Colewood, West Virginia, Homer Heckem tried his first rocket experiment inspired by seeing Sputnik one launched. It was a crude cherrybomb powered rocket made with a model airplane and the tube of a flashlight, and it's his first time. It doesn't work. The rocket explodes and never takes off. To improve upon this, he decides to call in the boys and get ready for some of the most mint century American names you've ever heard. Homer calls in his buddies, Quenton Wilson, Roy Lee cook, Sherman Sears, Jimmy O'Dell Carroll, and Billy Rose, who all joined the fold to build a rocket and get out of coalwood for good upon graduating high school. The next rocket the group launches is more successful.

Damn dog into space shout out Laika that November. Meanwhile, in Colewood, West Virginia, Homer Heckem tried his first rocket experiment inspired by seeing Sputnik one launched. It was a crude cherrybomb powered rocket made with a model airplane and the tube of a flashlight, and it's his first time. It doesn't work. The rocket explodes and never takes off. To improve upon this, he decides to call in the boys and get ready for some of the most mint century American names you've ever heard. Homer calls in his buddies, Quenton Wilson, Roy Lee cook, Sherman Sears, Jimmy O'Dell Carroll, and Billy Rose, who all joined the fold to build a rocket and get out of coalwood for good upon graduating high school. The next rocket the group launches is more successful.

They call it the Auk one and it flies six entire feet from there.

They call it the Auk one and it flies six entire feet from there.

They start calling their operation the Big Creek Missile Agency and keep at developing these rockets for the next three years. The space race continues in the background of all of this, and the BCMA are hopeful that they may get jobs at NASA after they get their college degrees. The first US satellite, the Explorer, is launched in February nineteen fifty eight, followed by the first group of astronauts announced in nineteen fifty nine. That's the round with John Glenn, member him.

They start calling their operation the Big Creek Missile Agency and keep at developing these rockets for the next three years. The space race continues in the background of all of this, and the BCMA are hopeful that they may get jobs at NASA after they get their college degrees. The first US satellite, the Explorer, is launched in February nineteen fifty eight, followed by the first group of astronauts announced in nineteen fifty nine. That's the round with John Glenn, member him.

Loud and clear. He reports back to Mercury Control, reading off his instruments, commenting on his reactions, all as coolly and calmly as if he was commuting on the eight twenty seven. Glenn is able to control the yaw and pitch of the vehicle himself.

Loud and clear. He reports back to Mercury Control, reading off his instruments, commenting on his reactions, all as coolly and calmly as if he was commuting on the eight twenty seven. Glenn is able to control the yaw and pitch of the vehicle himself.

My dad was born that year. How fun.

My dad was born that year. How fun.

The BCMA, now more frequently called the Rocket Boys persist. They try out mixing different fuels with ingredients like zinc, dust, moonshine, and sulfur, and they launch thirty five rockets in total while still teenagers. The Boys' final year of high school, they win a gold medal at the National Science Fair. And at this point, if you're wondering, wait, isn't this the plot to a Jake Gillenhall movie.

The BCMA, now more frequently called the Rocket Boys persist. They try out mixing different fuels with ingredients like zinc, dust, moonshine, and sulfur, and they launch thirty five rockets in total while still teenagers. The Boys' final year of high school, they win a gold medal at the National Science Fair. And at this point, if you're wondering, wait, isn't this the plot to a Jake Gillenhall movie.

Yes, it is.

Yes, it is.

To everyone else, it was just a light in the sky.

To everyone else, it was just a light in the sky.

Let him have out of space, we have rocket roll.

Let him have out of space, we have rocket roll.

But to Homer Hickam, it was the future.

But to Homer Hickam, it was the future.

Sputnik is a milestone in.

Sputnik is a milestone in.

History and just maybe a way out college scholarships.

History and just maybe a way out college scholarships.

Were winning a science fair, I'm rocket.

Were winning a science fair, I'm rocket.

You'd better take an interest in your own town.

You'd better take an interest in your own town.

Just don't blow yourself up October Sky.

Just don't blow yourself up October Sky.

This is the plot to the movie October Sky, which happens to be based on the memoir Rocket Boys by Homer Hicckam. Also, Rocket Boys and October Sky are anagrams. I just think that's fun.

This is the plot to the movie October Sky, which happens to be based on the memoir Rocket Boys by Homer Hicckam. Also, Rocket Boys and October Sky are anagrams. I just think that's fun.

So yes.

So yes.

From a young age, Homer Hickam's place in history seems kind of inevitable. He goes on to graduate from Virginia Tech with a degree in industrial engineering.

From a young age, Homer Hickam's place in history seems kind of inevitable. He goes on to graduate from Virginia Tech with a degree in industrial engineering.

He serves in the Vietnam War in the Army.

He serves in the Vietnam War in the Army.

And he continues to work for the US Aviation and Missile Command through the seventies only ethical things, I'm sure, and then at long last, Homer joins NASA in the nineteen eighties as an aerospace engineer. He's done it, and his career there is a storied one. Homer has worked with the Hubble space telescope, He's worked with the Space Lab and Space Shuttle mission astronauts, and just before retiring from NASA in nineteen ninety eight, he was the payload training manager for the International fucking Space Station. But even with this successful career at NASA, he still wasn't done. Homer's memoir Rocket Boys went to number one on the bestseller list in nineteen ninety eight. In October Sky the Jake Gillenhall movie came out in ninety nine, which launched Homer a long and successful writing career, writing in both fiction and memoir. But he still isn't done almost twenty years after retiring. In twenty seventeen, he was appointed to the National Space Council by objectively horrible recently almost assassinated former President Donald Trump. But as I would imagine, to Homer Hickham's chagrin, it is in twenty eighteen, as far as the entire Internet is concerned, that Homer Hickham the Rocket Boy made his greatest historical contribution when he had a now legendary run in with Twitter user Naomi H. Because one thing about Homer Hickam is that he kept up with the times.

And he continues to work for the US Aviation and Missile Command through the seventies only ethical things, I'm sure, and then at long last, Homer joins NASA in the nineteen eighties as an aerospace engineer. He's done it, and his career there is a storied one. Homer has worked with the Hubble space telescope, He's worked with the Space Lab and Space Shuttle mission astronauts, and just before retiring from NASA in nineteen ninety eight, he was the payload training manager for the International fucking Space Station. But even with this successful career at NASA, he still wasn't done. Homer's memoir Rocket Boys went to number one on the bestseller list in nineteen ninety eight. In October Sky the Jake Gillenhall movie came out in ninety nine, which launched Homer a long and successful writing career, writing in both fiction and memoir. But he still isn't done almost twenty years after retiring. In twenty seventeen, he was appointed to the National Space Council by objectively horrible recently almost assassinated former President Donald Trump. But as I would imagine, to Homer Hickham's chagrin, it is in twenty eighteen, as far as the entire Internet is concerned, that Homer Hickham the Rocket Boy made his greatest historical contribution when he had a now legendary run in with Twitter user Naomi H. Because one thing about Homer Hickam is that he kept up with the times.

In twenty eighteen, he had a.

In twenty eighteen, he had a.

Pretty act of Twitter account and tweeted mostly things related to NASA or to his career. But in August twenty eighteen, if they replied to a tweet from a user named Naomi H, whose Twitter avatar is a gorgeous anthropomorphic deer in front of a trans Pride flag, Naomi H's tweet in all caps reads, everyone shut.

Pretty act of Twitter account and tweeted mostly things related to NASA or to his career. But in August twenty eighteen, if they replied to a tweet from a user named Naomi H, whose Twitter avatar is a gorgeous anthropomorphic deer in front of a trans Pride flag, Naomi H's tweet in all caps reads, everyone shut.

The fuck up.

The fuck up.

I got accepted for a NASA internship. Nineteen hours after the post went live, it was gathering some steam, and it ends up reaching Homer Hicckham, Homer whose Twitter avatar is a picture of himself. Homer Hicckham replies language, but Naomi H will not be silent. She replies, suck my dick and balls. I'm working at NASA, And then Homer Hickham with the gut punch.

I got accepted for a NASA internship. Nineteen hours after the post went live, it was gathering some steam, and it ends up reaching Homer Hicckham, Homer whose Twitter avatar is a picture of himself. Homer Hicckham replies language, but Naomi H will not be silent. She replies, suck my dick and balls. I'm working at NASA, And then Homer Hickham with the gut punch.

And I am on the National Space Council that oversees NASA fatality.

And I am on the National Space Council that oversees NASA fatality.

Oh yes, oh yes, Naomi H. Your sixteenth minute starts now. Six you guys, I'm very excited for this one. This is a special little piece of Internet history. It happened only six years ago, but six years online is an eternity. Today we are talking about the ballad of Naomi H and Homer Hiccam. If you were on Twitter at the time, you almost certainly knew about it. So let's just jump in, Come with me, if you will. To August twenty eighteen, election rigging in Zimbabwe prompts an uprising, which the government reacts to with big surprise, extreme violence. Pope Francis declares that he wants to work toward the abolition of the death penalty. I have my birthday party at Chuck E Cheese this month because I love animatronics first and attention in a very close second. And this now legendary Twitter interaction takes place between college student Naomi h and esteemed NASA alumnus Homer Hiccam. One of the many reasons I find this story to be unique is that, in part it seems as if it's endured because of the dangling mystery that's implied, a mystery by the way that my interview with Naomi H today solves entirely. But contextually, you need to understand that this is a Twitter story, and in twenty eighteen, this is a very particular moment in how the platform works. This is a few years before the formal Elon Musk takeover, but the late twenty tens is rife with pushes for infant user growth in algorithmic shifts that simultaneously push for a safer and more engaged online community, which in this reporter's opinion, is basically a fool's Errand during this time, Twitter is trying to have it both ways. In fact, in May of twenty eighteen, Twitter encouraged a lot of hype over a change to their algorithm that they claimed would encourage quote unquote health in what users were shown to deter people from trolling other users. It's not the first time the then twelve year old platform had tried and failed to address this problem. A few years earlier, in twenty fifteen, the then CEO, Dick Costello acknowledged that the company said the platform quote sucks at dealing with abuse and trolls unquote radical honesty, thrilling. But by twenty eighteen, Twitter and every other major social media platform was on the defensive about their various failures to prevent misinformation from influencing the result of the twenty sixteen presidential election in America. Addressing misinformation was actually a steeper request for the likes of Facebook and Google, which owns YouTube, because both of these companies' algorithms had intentionally pushed misinformation via engagement and utterly failed to moderate their content whatsoever, which led to annoyance at very best and a genocide in Myanmar at worst.

Oh yes, oh yes, Naomi H. Your sixteenth minute starts now. Six you guys, I'm very excited for this one. This is a special little piece of Internet history. It happened only six years ago, but six years online is an eternity. Today we are talking about the ballad of Naomi H and Homer Hiccam. If you were on Twitter at the time, you almost certainly knew about it. So let's just jump in, Come with me, if you will. To August twenty eighteen, election rigging in Zimbabwe prompts an uprising, which the government reacts to with big surprise, extreme violence. Pope Francis declares that he wants to work toward the abolition of the death penalty. I have my birthday party at Chuck E Cheese this month because I love animatronics first and attention in a very close second. And this now legendary Twitter interaction takes place between college student Naomi h and esteemed NASA alumnus Homer Hiccam. One of the many reasons I find this story to be unique is that, in part it seems as if it's endured because of the dangling mystery that's implied, a mystery by the way that my interview with Naomi H today solves entirely. But contextually, you need to understand that this is a Twitter story, and in twenty eighteen, this is a very particular moment in how the platform works. This is a few years before the formal Elon Musk takeover, but the late twenty tens is rife with pushes for infant user growth in algorithmic shifts that simultaneously push for a safer and more engaged online community, which in this reporter's opinion, is basically a fool's Errand during this time, Twitter is trying to have it both ways. In fact, in May of twenty eighteen, Twitter encouraged a lot of hype over a change to their algorithm that they claimed would encourage quote unquote health in what users were shown to deter people from trolling other users. It's not the first time the then twelve year old platform had tried and failed to address this problem. A few years earlier, in twenty fifteen, the then CEO, Dick Costello acknowledged that the company said the platform quote sucks at dealing with abuse and trolls unquote radical honesty, thrilling. But by twenty eighteen, Twitter and every other major social media platform was on the defensive about their various failures to prevent misinformation from influencing the result of the twenty sixteen presidential election in America. Addressing misinformation was actually a steeper request for the likes of Facebook and Google, which owns YouTube, because both of these companies' algorithms had intentionally pushed misinformation via engagement and utterly failed to moderate their content whatsoever, which led to annoyance at very best and a genocide in Myanmar at worst.

In his testimony, he was asked about, for instance, the effect that Facebook has had in Myanmar in the massacre of the Rohina there. It has played a critical role in mobilizing Buddhist opinion, in radicalizing Buddhist opinion, in creating an environment where you could have what amounts to something very close at least to a genocide and certainly to ethnic cleansing.

In his testimony, he was asked about, for instance, the effect that Facebook has had in Myanmar in the massacre of the Rohina there. It has played a critical role in mobilizing Buddhist opinion, in radicalizing Buddhist opinion, in creating an environment where you could have what amounts to something very close at least to a genocide and certainly to ethnic cleansing.

For Twitter, whose algorithm at this time was still fairly linear, the real issue was assessing which you users were misusing the platform to harass and silence others. Regardless, Donald Trump's win in twenty sixteen, in no small part due to misinformation and high engagement, meant that all social media platforms were under fire, and a lack of response could have meant a decline in user popularity. So Twitter announced that they were taking a more aggressive stance against the abusive conduct that had become prevalent in the users that posted the most. Co founder Jack Dorsey said at the time, it's shaping up to be one of the highest impact things that we've done. The spirit of the thing is that we want to take the burden off the person receiving abuse and mob like behavior. If there's any indication that this policy was not successful, it's the one I'm about to tell you, because the ballad of Naomi agent Homer, in the space of just two interactions between strangers, contains so much of what makes the Internet and Twitter, specifically empowering of our worst instincts. The followut of this story going viral started conversations about modern workplace ethics, generational divide, transphobia, targeted harassment, campaigns, misinformation and false demonization, and a general confusion around furries conceptually. And yet you are listening to this podcast on the Internet. And yet Naomi h loves the Internet, and prior to this interaction had no bones about enjoying the Internet, and in fact could attribute a lot of her self discovery to the Internet.

For Twitter, whose algorithm at this time was still fairly linear, the real issue was assessing which you users were misusing the platform to harass and silence others. Regardless, Donald Trump's win in twenty sixteen, in no small part due to misinformation and high engagement, meant that all social media platforms were under fire, and a lack of response could have meant a decline in user popularity. So Twitter announced that they were taking a more aggressive stance against the abusive conduct that had become prevalent in the users that posted the most. Co founder Jack Dorsey said at the time, it's shaping up to be one of the highest impact things that we've done. The spirit of the thing is that we want to take the burden off the person receiving abuse and mob like behavior. If there's any indication that this policy was not successful, it's the one I'm about to tell you, because the ballad of Naomi agent Homer, in the space of just two interactions between strangers, contains so much of what makes the Internet and Twitter, specifically empowering of our worst instincts. The followut of this story going viral started conversations about modern workplace ethics, generational divide, transphobia, targeted harassment, campaigns, misinformation and false demonization, and a general confusion around furries conceptually. And yet you are listening to this podcast on the Internet. And yet Naomi h loves the Internet, and prior to this interaction had no bones about enjoying the Internet, and in fact could attribute a lot of her self discovery to the Internet.

You get it.

You get it.

At whatever point you logged on for the first time, your relationship to yourself became complicated forever. But today we are discussing what actually happened in this story. First, let's talk about this story as far as the public is concerned, because this is the narrative that appears to have calcified in the general Internet imagination. Naomi tweets about getting the internship. Naomi tells Homer Hickham to suck her dick after being told to watch her language and then maybe loses the internship and maybe doesn't. The jury remains out on that issue. And while this story took place over half a decade ago, the Reddit thread on our slash NASA I'm quoting from here is less than a year old. People really remember Naomi H. There's something about this story that gets to people in their marrow. The reddit post says.

At whatever point you logged on for the first time, your relationship to yourself became complicated forever. But today we are discussing what actually happened in this story. First, let's talk about this story as far as the public is concerned, because this is the narrative that appears to have calcified in the general Internet imagination. Naomi tweets about getting the internship. Naomi tells Homer Hickham to suck her dick after being told to watch her language and then maybe loses the internship and maybe doesn't. The jury remains out on that issue. And while this story took place over half a decade ago, the Reddit thread on our slash NASA I'm quoting from here is less than a year old. People really remember Naomi H. There's something about this story that gets to people in their marrow. The reddit post says.

Did Naomi H ever get a job?

Did Naomi H ever get a job?

I really hope she did, especially considering I would be the one to screw up as bad as she did. The whole thing made me really, really sad.

I really hope she did, especially considering I would be the one to screw up as bad as she did. The whole thing made me really, really sad.

One of the replies links to a Snopes article that tentatively concludes that Naomi H did indeed lose her internship at NASA, but the evidence that it points to to illustrate this point isn't exactly conclusive. A different Reddit user applies, so in essence, we don't know someone else times in correct, and this kind of confusion is not surprising at all, especially given the way this story rolled out. After the initial interaction went viral on Twitter, both Naomi H and Homer Hicckim seemed to struggle to know what the best way to respond to the virality is, and of course their respective reactions are informed by a lot of different things. It's informed by power dynamic, it's informed by generation gaps, and it's informed by the nebulus question how many people have been in this specific situation before. And we'll get to Naomi H's line of thoughts shortly, because folks, this is a sixteenth minute exclusive. And so while Naomi h has not said very much about the fallout of this story, Homer Hickham did, but his reaction to the story going viral is in my opinion, sort of misremembered, and that effect the way that this story is remembered down the line into today. And to be clear, this is a Naomi H stand podcast. Personally, I think she is guilty of nothing but enthusiasm and being a little young and naive and being funny. Right, But the way that both parties in this interaction are characterized makes a huge difference here. And when I hear people talk about this story, they generally choose one person as right and one person as wrong. Because the Internet is populated by either people who do not understand that two things can be true, or people who understand two things can be true but are really annoying about it.

One of the replies links to a Snopes article that tentatively concludes that Naomi H did indeed lose her internship at NASA, but the evidence that it points to to illustrate this point isn't exactly conclusive. A different Reddit user applies, so in essence, we don't know someone else times in correct, and this kind of confusion is not surprising at all, especially given the way this story rolled out. After the initial interaction went viral on Twitter, both Naomi H and Homer Hicckim seemed to struggle to know what the best way to respond to the virality is, and of course their respective reactions are informed by a lot of different things. It's informed by power dynamic, it's informed by generation gaps, and it's informed by the nebulus question how many people have been in this specific situation before. And we'll get to Naomi H's line of thoughts shortly, because folks, this is a sixteenth minute exclusive. And so while Naomi h has not said very much about the fallout of this story, Homer Hickham did, but his reaction to the story going viral is in my opinion, sort of misremembered, and that effect the way that this story is remembered down the line into today. And to be clear, this is a Naomi H stand podcast. Personally, I think she is guilty of nothing but enthusiasm and being a little young and naive and being funny. Right, But the way that both parties in this interaction are characterized makes a huge difference here. And when I hear people talk about this story, they generally choose one person as right and one person as wrong. Because the Internet is populated by either people who do not understand that two things can be true, or people who understand two things can be true but are really annoying about it.

So it's easy to ignore them.

So it's easy to ignore them.

And so at different times many people have physicianed Homer Hickham as the villain of this story, and I very much hesitate to say that's the case. And while I don't particularly like when someone language police is online, I don't think there is a villain of this story. I think a lot of what happened here can be attributed to the Streisand effect, which is not what happens to a person when they star in Funny Girl on Broadway in the seventies and subsequently become a beloved American gem whose directorial career should be referenced as historical more frequently. But it does reference that Streisand Comma Barbara, if you don't know. The Streisand effect references an incident from two thousand and three when Barbara Streisand's lawyer tried to prevent a picture of her Malibu mansion from being published, and in doing so, drew a shitload of attention. Two said picture that probably would never have happened if they had not insisted on it never appearing anywhere. So it became shorthand for the thing where you're in the middle of a room full of people not paying attention to you, and you scream for seemingly no reason, please don't look at me. Basically a situation where you'd be better off just letting it lie. So if you are either Naomi h or Homer Hickam, the first mistake you make is that, after this interaction takes off in mid August twenty eighteen, neither of them delete it. And we can speculate as to why. Per Naomi h she's a college student who thinks it's kind of funny and doesn't expect that it will cost her arguably the biggest opportunity of her life. And as far as Homer Hickham goes, he's a seventy five year old on Twitter whose online behavior was generally pretty lighthearted up to this point. In spite of his position, Hickham was still mostly retired, and he weighed in on NASA news and would occasionally reply to colleagues, but just about space Homer stuff.

And so at different times many people have physicianed Homer Hickham as the villain of this story, and I very much hesitate to say that's the case. And while I don't particularly like when someone language police is online, I don't think there is a villain of this story. I think a lot of what happened here can be attributed to the Streisand effect, which is not what happens to a person when they star in Funny Girl on Broadway in the seventies and subsequently become a beloved American gem whose directorial career should be referenced as historical more frequently. But it does reference that Streisand Comma Barbara, if you don't know. The Streisand effect references an incident from two thousand and three when Barbara Streisand's lawyer tried to prevent a picture of her Malibu mansion from being published, and in doing so, drew a shitload of attention. Two said picture that probably would never have happened if they had not insisted on it never appearing anywhere. So it became shorthand for the thing where you're in the middle of a room full of people not paying attention to you, and you scream for seemingly no reason, please don't look at me. Basically a situation where you'd be better off just letting it lie. So if you are either Naomi h or Homer Hickam, the first mistake you make is that, after this interaction takes off in mid August twenty eighteen, neither of them delete it. And we can speculate as to why. Per Naomi h she's a college student who thinks it's kind of funny and doesn't expect that it will cost her arguably the biggest opportunity of her life. And as far as Homer Hickham goes, he's a seventy five year old on Twitter whose online behavior was generally pretty lighthearted up to this point. In spite of his position, Hickham was still mostly retired, and he weighed in on NASA news and would occasionally reply to colleagues, but just about space Homer stuff.

He's one of the rocket Boys.

He's one of the rocket Boys.

But what we do know is that the tweet found its way to him, and the fact that the original interaction was still shareable days after it happened and the interaction ended inconclusively kept people talking about it again, think about Homer's final reply.

But what we do know is that the tweet found its way to him, and the fact that the original interaction was still shareable days after it happened and the interaction ended inconclusively kept people talking about it again, think about Homer's final reply.

And I am on the National Space Council that oversees NASA.

And I am on the National Space Council that oversees NASA.

Pretty understandably, this is often interpreted as a death now for our heroine, Naomi H. But where the stras in effect really comes in is how the controversy is addressed after this initial bump and engagement, because the longer this thing stays up, the more the bell can't be on wrong. A lot of users have already taken Homer Hickam's original response to Naomi H as one that warned that he would cause her to lose her job, and the first wave of discourse around this story kind of revolves around this assumption.

Pretty understandably, this is often interpreted as a death now for our heroine, Naomi H. But where the stras in effect really comes in is how the controversy is addressed after this initial bump and engagement, because the longer this thing stays up, the more the bell can't be on wrong. A lot of users have already taken Homer Hickam's original response to Naomi H as one that warned that he would cause her to lose her job, and the first wave of discourse around this story kind of revolves around this assumption.

Here's an example, and intern told an overseer of NASA to suck her dick and balls. And there are actually people in the comments who think firing her was an abuse of power.

Here's an example, and intern told an overseer of NASA to suck her dick and balls. And there are actually people in the comments who think firing her was an abuse of power.

Lol.

Lol.

There's people reacting who think that anyone who doesn't know Hickam's relevance within NASA doesn't deserve the job anyway.

There's people reacting who think that anyone who doesn't know Hickam's relevance within NASA doesn't deserve the job anyway.

I can't believe NASA gave an internship to someone who didn't know who Homer Hickam was.

I can't believe NASA gave an internship to someone who didn't know who Homer Hickam was.

And no, this user did not spell Homer Hickham's name correctly. And then there's people who are leaning into Naomi Ah's identity, which should be unrelated to the story, but we're going to talk about it at length this week. More specifically, how Naomi H's identity as both a trans woman and a furry were repeatedly referenced in the reaction to this story. Here is a light example of that.

And no, this user did not spell Homer Hickham's name correctly. And then there's people who are leaning into Naomi Ah's identity, which should be unrelated to the story, but we're going to talk about it at length this week. More specifically, how Naomi H's identity as both a trans woman and a furry were repeatedly referenced in the reaction to this story. Here is a light example of that.

Be Fourrey became an intern for NASA and got instantly fired after telling someone on their council to suck their dick. Because this is twenty eighteen.

Be Fourrey became an intern for NASA and got instantly fired after telling someone on their council to suck their dick. Because this is twenty eighteen.

Buddy, join us in twenty twenty four.

Buddy, join us in twenty twenty four.

The water's fine.

The water's fine.

But if you've been on social media for a while, you recognize this rhetorical format. This is a historically popular way to talk about things that the writer wants you to feel is uniquely modernly absurd. In this case, the user is pointing to the fact that Naomi h is a furry.

But if you've been on social media for a while, you recognize this rhetorical format. This is a historically popular way to talk about things that the writer wants you to feel is uniquely modernly absurd. In this case, the user is pointing to the fact that Naomi h is a furry.

That is true.

That is true.

At this time, Naomi Ah's Twitter was a mix of random personal thoughts, some gaming takes, and yes, furry content. And I really hope this doesn't come off as patronizing furries for my listeners that live under a rock.

At this time, Naomi Ah's Twitter was a mix of random personal thoughts, some gaming takes, and yes, furry content. And I really hope this doesn't come off as patronizing furries for my listeners that live under a rock.

Hello, hope the rock is doing well. Just so you know.

Hello, hope the rock is doing well. Just so you know.

Furries are defined in the Oxford Dictionary as an enthusiast for animal characters with human characteristics, in particular a person who dresses up in costume as such a character or uses one as an avatar.

Furries are defined in the Oxford Dictionary as an enthusiast for animal characters with human characteristics, in particular a person who dresses up in costume as such a character or uses one as an avatar.

Online.

Online.

A few of you were just like, oh, the mascot costume community. Correct, And to get rid of any confusion right here and now, make no mistake, I ride for furries because, like many unusual communities, they are not hurting anyone. And moreover, I can confirm that furries make excellent stand up comedy audiences. So yeah, I ride for furries. If you're a better audience member than a garden variety bachelorette party, I am your ally one hundred percent. But furries are not us an in person community, as the definition implies. Furries have always operated via both public and niche channels, ranging all the way back to the underground comic scene in the nineteen seventies, and in their present iteration in online communities that can often lead to in person meetups. The online community is often a starting point, and trust me when I say that the attendance for in person furry conferences is huge.

A few of you were just like, oh, the mascot costume community. Correct, And to get rid of any confusion right here and now, make no mistake, I ride for furries because, like many unusual communities, they are not hurting anyone. And moreover, I can confirm that furries make excellent stand up comedy audiences. So yeah, I ride for furries. If you're a better audience member than a garden variety bachelorette party, I am your ally one hundred percent. But furries are not us an in person community, as the definition implies. Furries have always operated via both public and niche channels, ranging all the way back to the underground comic scene in the nineteen seventies, and in their present iteration in online communities that can often lead to in person meetups. The online community is often a starting point, and trust me when I say that the attendance for in person furry conferences is huge.

So I knew world record was set last weekend, but at the same time, I feel like everyone saw it coming. Of course, I'm talking about Anthrocon and the seventeen thousand, six hundred and thirty nine of y'all that attended.

So I knew world record was set last weekend, but at the same time, I feel like everyone saw it coming. Of course, I'm talking about Anthrocon and the seventeen thousand, six hundred and thirty nine of y'all that attended.

And so while anecdotally I have found the community to be completely lovely, conflating someone who identifies as a furry as someone inherently ridiculous is still a common lazy punchline, and I suspect that this has to do with the fact that much of the furry community identifies as LGBTQ plus, and since the dawn of the Internet, furries have been very online. The furry community can be participated in just digitally via personas, which is the anthropomorphic animal character that furries interact as, and often will commission custom art to represent themselves as, for instance, a gorgeous anthropomorphic deer like the one in Naomi H's profile picture. But since furries have been a subject of low hanging fruit mockery for decades, by the time these comments are made, and Homer Hicam is objectively a weird person to see indirect conversation with a furry who is a half century his junior.

And so while anecdotally I have found the community to be completely lovely, conflating someone who identifies as a furry as someone inherently ridiculous is still a common lazy punchline, and I suspect that this has to do with the fact that much of the furry community identifies as LGBTQ plus, and since the dawn of the Internet, furries have been very online. The furry community can be participated in just digitally via personas, which is the anthropomorphic animal character that furries interact as, and often will commission custom art to represent themselves as, for instance, a gorgeous anthropomorphic deer like the one in Naomi H's profile picture. But since furries have been a subject of low hanging fruit mockery for decades, by the time these comments are made, and Homer Hicam is objectively a weird person to see indirect conversation with a furry who is a half century his junior.

But remember this.

But remember this.

Furry art has a background of a trans pride flag, because Naomi h is trans. And it's here that I'll state the obvious and say, when bigoted assholes perceive a trans person doing anything, there is a contingency that will relentlessly harass, dox and dehumanize them just for existing. And while I have no way of knowing if Homer Hickham knew this, that is exactly where this story's virality leads. So if you're lucky, you won't recognize the names of hate speech forums like eight chan and Kiwi Farms, but if you're listening to this show, I suspect you might. Both of these forums were inspired by a different forum called four chan, the famous anonymous forum founded in two thousand and three by a fifteen year old who had pulled code from a forum board called Sorry Anime, Death Tentacle, Rape horror House.

Furry art has a background of a trans pride flag, because Naomi h is trans. And it's here that I'll state the obvious and say, when bigoted assholes perceive a trans person doing anything, there is a contingency that will relentlessly harass, dox and dehumanize them just for existing. And while I have no way of knowing if Homer Hickham knew this, that is exactly where this story's virality leads. So if you're lucky, you won't recognize the names of hate speech forums like eight chan and Kiwi Farms, but if you're listening to this show, I suspect you might. Both of these forums were inspired by a different forum called four chan, the famous anonymous forum founded in two thousand and three by a fifteen year old who had pulled code from a forum board called Sorry Anime, Death Tentacle, Rape horror House.

But once four chan is.

But once four chan is.

Founded, the site's threads range from the innocuous to the depraved, and it made way for some deeply hateful communities that encouraged harassment, doxing, hate speech, and probably a bunch of shorthand terms for those things that I have refused to learn of the success of four chan. Eight Chan and kiwi farms are founded the same year, twenty thirteen, and are built on the same dog whistly innocuous term free speech. In this case and many others, this term roughly translated to hate speech, which became even more clear just a year later in twenty fourteen, when eight chan in particular became a critical player in the gamer Gate saga. And that's an episode unto itself, because free Palestine. But this was a period of months in which people, nearly always women and queer people who had expressed interest in virtually any progressive values with regards to feminism or representation in video games in general, were made to fear for their lives due to intricate, terrifying, anonymous online harassment campaigns. Remarkably, kiwi Farms manages to be even worse. Here are headlines about the continued effort to shut the website down from the last two years. From The Hill in twenty twenty two, Why anti trans web forum kiwi Farms was erased from the Internet. From The Washington Post in twenty twenty three, The endless battle to ban the world's most notorious anti trans Stalker website and from mother Jones in twenty twenty three, the website that wants you to kill yourself and won't die. Unfortunately, at the time I'm recording this, this last headline is still correct and Kiwi Farms is still not dead, and we suffer for every moment that that remains true. And these hate sites would very frequently mock, harass, and dox trans people, and in the case of Kiwi Farms, that was often the point of the entire platform, because users on these sites are cowards, unwilling to put their names to their own horrific hateful views, which means that they walk among us. Fuck you. The fact that Naomi h was targeted and harassed on these sites not for being an intern who was fired, but a trans intern who had the audacity to exist at NASA and on these disgusting sites, the combined effect of disappointment at losing the internship, the influx of attention, and the hatefulness directed at her general existence made her a prime candidate to feel unsafe. And I can't say enough I'm so glad that this story has a happy ending, but holy shit, with trans people experience online can be just as traumatizing as it is in real life, and even more so. And while these hate forums have since mutated, there's still around and the transphobic harassment that Naomi H received in twenty eighteen is pulled from a disturbing playbook that is still very much with us.

Founded, the site's threads range from the innocuous to the depraved, and it made way for some deeply hateful communities that encouraged harassment, doxing, hate speech, and probably a bunch of shorthand terms for those things that I have refused to learn of the success of four chan. Eight Chan and kiwi farms are founded the same year, twenty thirteen, and are built on the same dog whistly innocuous term free speech. In this case and many others, this term roughly translated to hate speech, which became even more clear just a year later in twenty fourteen, when eight chan in particular became a critical player in the gamer Gate saga. And that's an episode unto itself, because free Palestine. But this was a period of months in which people, nearly always women and queer people who had expressed interest in virtually any progressive values with regards to feminism or representation in video games in general, were made to fear for their lives due to intricate, terrifying, anonymous online harassment campaigns. Remarkably, kiwi Farms manages to be even worse. Here are headlines about the continued effort to shut the website down from the last two years. From The Hill in twenty twenty two, Why anti trans web forum kiwi Farms was erased from the Internet. From The Washington Post in twenty twenty three, The endless battle to ban the world's most notorious anti trans Stalker website and from mother Jones in twenty twenty three, the website that wants you to kill yourself and won't die. Unfortunately, at the time I'm recording this, this last headline is still correct and Kiwi Farms is still not dead, and we suffer for every moment that that remains true. And these hate sites would very frequently mock, harass, and dox trans people, and in the case of Kiwi Farms, that was often the point of the entire platform, because users on these sites are cowards, unwilling to put their names to their own horrific hateful views, which means that they walk among us. Fuck you. The fact that Naomi h was targeted and harassed on these sites not for being an intern who was fired, but a trans intern who had the audacity to exist at NASA and on these disgusting sites, the combined effect of disappointment at losing the internship, the influx of attention, and the hatefulness directed at her general existence made her a prime candidate to feel unsafe. And I can't say enough I'm so glad that this story has a happy ending, but holy shit, with trans people experience online can be just as traumatizing as it is in real life, and even more so. And while these hate forums have since mutated, there's still around and the transphobic harassment that Naomi H received in twenty eighteen is pulled from a disturbing playbook that is still very much with us.

And we wouldn't be talking.

And we wouldn't be talking.

About this story now unless there had been the classic backlash to the backlash right. It reminds me a lot of our episode on Coffee Wife from a few months ago. It's another story that starts with a wave of shaming followed by an equal, sometimes more intense backlash to the backlash than implies that the first wave of reaction wasn't fair. In Naomi H's case, many came to her defense as strangers and friends she knew from the furry community came to her defense in a public way, which is a noble thing to do but almost guarantees that the story is not going to go away the way that Naomi H might have liked it to by then. And these defenses of Naomi H start to portray Homer Hickam as a villain. Here are some examples.

About this story now unless there had been the classic backlash to the backlash right. It reminds me a lot of our episode on Coffee Wife from a few months ago. It's another story that starts with a wave of shaming followed by an equal, sometimes more intense backlash to the backlash than implies that the first wave of reaction wasn't fair. In Naomi H's case, many came to her defense as strangers and friends she knew from the furry community came to her defense in a public way, which is a noble thing to do but almost guarantees that the story is not going to go away the way that Naomi H might have liked it to by then. And these defenses of Naomi H start to portray Homer Hickam as a villain. Here are some examples.

Wow, Homer Hickim is kind of a jerk. Naomi did the right thing. This hectoring old dullard needs to be told off more. I hope they get their internship back. Being told by an old white dude to mind your language as irritating as fuck.

Wow, Homer Hickim is kind of a jerk. Naomi did the right thing. This hectoring old dullard needs to be told off more. I hope they get their internship back. Being told by an old white dude to mind your language as irritating as fuck.

And it is true that Homer Hickham's old person response of language and Naomi h young person response of suck my nickenballs does directly lead to her losing the NASA internship, but the way much of the public remembers it now, it's as if Homer Hickam picked up the phone, dialed one eight hundred NASA and demanded that Naomi h be fired. The truth is Homer Hicckim did not lose Naomi h that internship, at least not directly. The streisand effect did because the more people talked about this and the longer the posts stayed up, the more likely it became that someone at NASA was going to find out, and they did. When Homer finds out online that Naomi lost the internship, he spoke out against NASA's decision publicly. Here's a blog post from his website from August twenty first, twenty eighteen, entitled social media.

And it is true that Homer Hickham's old person response of language and Naomi h young person response of suck my nickenballs does directly lead to her losing the NASA internship, but the way much of the public remembers it now, it's as if Homer Hickam picked up the phone, dialed one eight hundred NASA and demanded that Naomi h be fired. The truth is Homer Hicckim did not lose Naomi h that internship, at least not directly. The streisand effect did because the more people talked about this and the longer the posts stayed up, the more likely it became that someone at NASA was going to find out, and they did. When Homer finds out online that Naomi lost the internship, he spoke out against NASA's decision publicly. Here's a blog post from his website from August twenty first, twenty eighteen, entitled social media.

It reads recently it was called to my attention on Twitter that someone was being hired by NASA and that they were using the F word in a tweet about it. I'm a Vietnam VET and not at all offended by the F word. However, when I saw NASA and the word used together, it occurred to me that this young person might get in trouble if NASA saw it.

It reads recently it was called to my attention on Twitter that someone was being hired by NASA and that they were using the F word in a tweet about it. I'm a Vietnam VET and not at all offended by the F word. However, when I saw NASA and the word used together, it occurred to me that this young person might get in trouble if NASA saw it.

So I tweeted to.

So I tweeted to.

Her one word language and intended to leave it at back. Soon her friends took umbrage and said a lot of unkind things, But long after I was gone, and I immediately deleted my comments and blocked all concerned. Later I learned she had lost her offer for an internship with NASA. This I had nothing to do with, nor could I, since I do not hire and fire at the agency or have any say on employment whatsoever. As it turned out, it was due to the NASA hashtag her friends used that called the agency's attention to it. Long after my comments were gone, she reached out to me with an unnecessary apology, which I heartily accepted and returned with my honor. After talking to her, I am certain she deserves a position in the aerospace industry, and I am doing all I can to secure her one that will be better than she lost. I have also talked to the folks that had to do with her internship and made absolutely certain that there will be no black mark on her record. Signed Homer Hickam.

Her one word language and intended to leave it at back. Soon her friends took umbrage and said a lot of unkind things, But long after I was gone, and I immediately deleted my comments and blocked all concerned. Later I learned she had lost her offer for an internship with NASA. This I had nothing to do with, nor could I, since I do not hire and fire at the agency or have any say on employment whatsoever. As it turned out, it was due to the NASA hashtag her friends used that called the agency's attention to it. Long after my comments were gone, she reached out to me with an unnecessary apology, which I heartily accepted and returned with my honor. After talking to her, I am certain she deserves a position in the aerospace industry, and I am doing all I can to secure her one that will be better than she lost. I have also talked to the folks that had to do with her internship and made absolutely certain that there will be no black mark on her record. Signed Homer Hickam.

Homer Hickam does delete this blog post the next day, but let's pause on it because it's a rich text. His post implies that what lost Naomi h the internship was not what.

Homer Hickam does delete this blog post the next day, but let's pause on it because it's a rich text. His post implies that what lost Naomi h the internship was not what.

She herself said.

She herself said.

It was what her supporters said to Hickam, a respected NASA engineer, and it was the slandering of him and NASA itself that lost their friend the internship. And if this is true, I find this to be really unfair. I have no doubt that Homer Hickms's information from NASA is sound, but that means that NASA has all but admitted that they took an opportunity from a college student because of things other people said, and some of Naomi H's supporters seemed to recognize this. After Hiccum's statement was released, one furry tweeted.

It was what her supporters said to Hickam, a respected NASA engineer, and it was the slandering of him and NASA itself that lost their friend the internship. And if this is true, I find this to be really unfair. I have no doubt that Homer Hickms's information from NASA is sound, but that means that NASA has all but admitted that they took an opportunity from a college student because of things other people said, and some of Naomi H's supporters seemed to recognize this. After Hiccum's statement was released, one furry tweeted.

The full Homer hickhams story is a ride. As usual, furry Twitter simultaneously makes a dumb situation worse while never actually posting the full story, y'all, Naomi.

The full Homer hickhams story is a ride. As usual, furry Twitter simultaneously makes a dumb situation worse while never actually posting the full story, y'all, Naomi.

H said at the time, and since that, it appears that Homer Hickham didn't genuinely try to get her internship back, and that she reached out with a sincere apology that Homer told her was unnecessary. The only problem was exclusive he was unsuccessful in getting her the internship back, And people rarely talk about Homer Hickham's contextual explanation here because it was swiftly deleted in a way that I think confused the narrative for many people. In the moment, Naomi h doesn't really seem to know how to react. She's kind of panicking because here's this thing she thought was a little Twitter bit that wouldn't affect her career, and now the internship she was doubling down on being excited about is gone. And then shortly after she's subjected to Transphoba harassments, She's subjected to mockery and threats of violence, so she kind of stops posting. She makes her Twitter account private and then tries exploring her feelings on everything on a Twitter wannabe platform called Masadon. Unfortunately, people find her there and her personal struggle through this time is kind of laid bare for the public. And when it's confirmed that Naomi Age's internship has really and truly been lost as a result of this interaction, that is when the mainstream media hits hard and fast BuzzFeed news a woman was fired from NASA after they saw her tweet suck my dick and balls I'm working at NASA USA today would be NASA intern loses gig after vulgar tweetd NASA alum Homer Hicckam, reports say Business Insider, a woman lost a NASA scholarship after getting into Twitter beef with a member of NASA Space Council. Most of these articles imply that Naomi H is either the victim of the world's cruelest joke or was genuinely foolish to have posted that in the first place. The pieces express sympathy but don't imply that Homer Hicckham spoke out of turn, and some of the coverage references the transphobic harassment as a major part of what fueled the story. But after this wave of mainstream attention, the ballad of Naomi H and Homer Hicckham doesn't progress all that much. Once these stories come out, both parties stop responding for comment, So within a few days of this story going mainstream, Naomi Age's internship is lost. Homer Hickam releases a statement saying he's going to try and help her get it back, then deletes it, and finally, Naomi H crops up on Twitter on August twenty third to say the following, I think I might get my internship again. Thank you all for the support and for me. At this point, there's really only one ingredient missing in the story. What explanation does NASA have for any of this? And while they're too classy NASA to comment on this incident specifically, they did tell Dan Yvon at Snopes that their justification for firing Naomi H was related to their social media code of conduct.

H said at the time, and since that, it appears that Homer Hickham didn't genuinely try to get her internship back, and that she reached out with a sincere apology that Homer told her was unnecessary. The only problem was exclusive he was unsuccessful in getting her the internship back, And people rarely talk about Homer Hickham's contextual explanation here because it was swiftly deleted in a way that I think confused the narrative for many people. In the moment, Naomi h doesn't really seem to know how to react. She's kind of panicking because here's this thing she thought was a little Twitter bit that wouldn't affect her career, and now the internship she was doubling down on being excited about is gone. And then shortly after she's subjected to Transphoba harassments, She's subjected to mockery and threats of violence, so she kind of stops posting. She makes her Twitter account private and then tries exploring her feelings on everything on a Twitter wannabe platform called Masadon. Unfortunately, people find her there and her personal struggle through this time is kind of laid bare for the public. And when it's confirmed that Naomi Age's internship has really and truly been lost as a result of this interaction, that is when the mainstream media hits hard and fast BuzzFeed news a woman was fired from NASA after they saw her tweet suck my dick and balls I'm working at NASA USA today would be NASA intern loses gig after vulgar tweetd NASA alum Homer Hicckam, reports say Business Insider, a woman lost a NASA scholarship after getting into Twitter beef with a member of NASA Space Council. Most of these articles imply that Naomi H is either the victim of the world's cruelest joke or was genuinely foolish to have posted that in the first place. The pieces express sympathy but don't imply that Homer Hicckham spoke out of turn, and some of the coverage references the transphobic harassment as a major part of what fueled the story. But after this wave of mainstream attention, the ballad of Naomi H and Homer Hicckham doesn't progress all that much. Once these stories come out, both parties stop responding for comment, So within a few days of this story going mainstream, Naomi Age's internship is lost. Homer Hickam releases a statement saying he's going to try and help her get it back, then deletes it, and finally, Naomi H crops up on Twitter on August twenty third to say the following, I think I might get my internship again. Thank you all for the support and for me. At this point, there's really only one ingredient missing in the story. What explanation does NASA have for any of this? And while they're too classy NASA to comment on this incident specifically, they did tell Dan Yvon at Snopes that their justification for firing Naomi H was related to their social media code of conduct.

Ah.

Ah.

Yes, the corporate social media code of Conduct, a fearsome era of workplace policy that directly led to me losing a job at the Boston Globe for saying I come so hard that I believe when I was twenty two years old. A story for another day. NASA tells Danyvonn at Snopes.

Yes, the corporate social media code of Conduct, a fearsome era of workplace policy that directly led to me losing a job at the Boston Globe for saying I come so hard that I believe when I was twenty two years old. A story for another day. NASA tells Danyvonn at Snopes.

Privacy regulations prohibit the agency from discussing specific details to receive a manual that includes expectations regarding use of social media. If a student is rejected, they can reapply for the program.

Privacy regulations prohibit the agency from discussing specific details to receive a manual that includes expectations regarding use of social media. If a student is rejected, they can reapply for the program.

And from here Naomi H goes silent or private online for a while. Homer Hickham returns to posting as usual and never reinstates that mysterious deleted blog post, and the whole story becomes a bit of an unsolved online mystery until now. The most recent time I saw this story be reinvoked by a viral tweet, I gave it a shot and quote tweeted Naomi H DM me, knowing that for sure she wouldn't answer. But several hours later, that same day, a Twitter account replies with an avatar that is a gorgeous anthropomorphic dear. The reply reads, Hi, I'm Naomi H. And a reply to the reply.

And from here Naomi H goes silent or private online for a while. Homer Hickham returns to posting as usual and never reinstates that mysterious deleted blog post, and the whole story becomes a bit of an unsolved online mystery until now. The most recent time I saw this story be reinvoked by a viral tweet, I gave it a shot and quote tweeted Naomi H DM me, knowing that for sure she wouldn't answer. But several hours later, that same day, a Twitter account replies with an avatar that is a gorgeous anthropomorphic dear. The reply reads, Hi, I'm Naomi H. And a reply to the reply.

It won't let me DM you.

It won't let me DM you.

And finally, Jamie, please when we come back, I talk exclusively with the one, the only, Naomi H. Welcome back to sixteenth minute. Someone shot Donald Trump and that's the fifth strangest thing I've experienced this week. And here is my interview with Naomi H.

And finally, Jamie, please when we come back, I talk exclusively with the one, the only, Naomi H. Welcome back to sixteenth minute. Someone shot Donald Trump and that's the fifth strangest thing I've experienced this week. And here is my interview with Naomi H.

My name's Naomi I often go by Naomi H. On the Internet. You'll forgive me if I don't really feel like giving out my full name. Absolutely, and I'm a transgender woman. We can get into that a little bit later. But the big thing what brings me to this podcast is that in August of twenty eighteen, I landed and then fumbled a NASA internship in a very hilarious way. Because I just couldn't stop myself from posting about it. In my hubris, I sort of assumed that nothing bad would happen. I love telling this story to people because it's a whole in the time since people have a lot of misconceptions about it. People have this idea that I got the internship back or something, and I just want to come out and say that's not true. I did not internship back.

My name's Naomi I often go by Naomi H. On the Internet. You'll forgive me if I don't really feel like giving out my full name. Absolutely, and I'm a transgender woman. We can get into that a little bit later. But the big thing what brings me to this podcast is that in August of twenty eighteen, I landed and then fumbled a NASA internship in a very hilarious way. Because I just couldn't stop myself from posting about it. In my hubris, I sort of assumed that nothing bad would happen. I love telling this story to people because it's a whole in the time since people have a lot of misconceptions about it. People have this idea that I got the internship back or something, and I just want to come out and say that's not true. I did not internship back.

Okay, that was because it does seem to be a rare still mystery of the internet.

Okay, that was because it does seem to be a rare still mystery of the internet.

Homer tried very hard to get me on fired, but they had already kind of made up their mind. We'll get into it starting from the top. It's the spring summer of twenty eighteen around like May. I think I had applied for some NASA internship that had opened up at NASA Glen in Cleveland because I was, you know, going to school in Cleveland studying engineering. So I applied for it, didn't get it, but you know, my my information, my resume was in their system. The rest of the summer goes by, you know, and that was I had just started hormone therapy. I was like just starting the process of coming out to people as transgender, which is a very scary time in my life. You know, it's it's I'm glad I did it, but it's it's really hard to put yourself out there like that. So anyways, so it's August and I'm just like chilling in my room. We're like maybe three or four weeks away from class starting. I had already like picked up my classes for the fall semester and everything, and I get I don't remember if it was an email or a phone call, but they're like, hey, we have your resume in the system. We see that you have a lot of experience with CAD and this internship like that, Oh, cad is is compute assisted drawings. It's like you know, in three D modeling in engineering for like manufacturing and designing and all sorts of stuff.

Homer tried very hard to get me on fired, but they had already kind of made up their mind. We'll get into it starting from the top. It's the spring summer of twenty eighteen around like May. I think I had applied for some NASA internship that had opened up at NASA Glen in Cleveland because I was, you know, going to school in Cleveland studying engineering. So I applied for it, didn't get it, but you know, my my information, my resume was in their system. The rest of the summer goes by, you know, and that was I had just started hormone therapy. I was like just starting the process of coming out to people as transgender, which is a very scary time in my life. You know, it's it's I'm glad I did it, but it's it's really hard to put yourself out there like that. So anyways, so it's August and I'm just like chilling in my room. We're like maybe three or four weeks away from class starting. I had already like picked up my classes for the fall semester and everything, and I get I don't remember if it was an email or a phone call, but they're like, hey, we have your resume in the system. We see that you have a lot of experience with CAD and this internship like that, Oh, cad is is compute assisted drawings. It's like you know, in three D modeling in engineering for like manufacturing and designing and all sorts of stuff.

Fascinating.

Fascinating.

Yeah, you will find that many of my questions are like, huh.

Yeah, you will find that many of my questions are like, huh.

That's okay. So yeah, it was something that I had a lot of experience with. So I get this call and they're like, hey, this internship doing CAD work like just opened up. Are you interested? And I'm just like, well, fuck yeah, I am so, Like you know, they schedule like a video interview for like a day or two after that, maybe like the next day, I get the offer letter in my email and I sign it and I fill it out. Now I am like out of my board excited. Of course, that's of course it's a big fucking deal. So I was specifically, I was studying aerospace engineering, and if you are, like in the aerospace industry in general, if you have NASA on your resume, you can basically do anything you fucking want. Like you know, it's it's it was such an insanely huge thing for my career. Yeah, And for context, my younger sister, Sophie, she's two years younger than me. She was a physics student at University of Michigan, and she had gotten all sorts of these crazy internships over her time, including one or two at NASA, studying like astrophysics and stuff.

That's okay. So yeah, it was something that I had a lot of experience with. So I get this call and they're like, hey, this internship doing CAD work like just opened up. Are you interested? And I'm just like, well, fuck yeah, I am so, Like you know, they schedule like a video interview for like a day or two after that, maybe like the next day, I get the offer letter in my email and I sign it and I fill it out. Now I am like out of my board excited. Of course, that's of course it's a big fucking deal. So I was specifically, I was studying aerospace engineering, and if you are, like in the aerospace industry in general, if you have NASA on your resume, you can basically do anything you fucking want. Like you know, it's it's it was such an insanely huge thing for my career. Yeah, And for context, my younger sister, Sophie, she's two years younger than me. She was a physics student at University of Michigan, and she had gotten all sorts of these crazy internships over her time, including one or two at NASA, studying like astrophysics and stuff.

So whoa like a whole stem family.

So whoa like a whole stem family.

Well yeah, yeah, yeah, it's where a bunch of overachievers, which I didn't really realize how sort of abnormal that is until I like went to college and kind of got out of my bubble. I grew up in a very extremely like white, extremely privileged life, and I don't want to be like one of these white people who is just like absolutely about like shitty things happening in the world. My parents are doctors, Like they paid for pretty much my entire undergraduate education. Okay, you know, I I got as far as I did because I had a lot of advantages on my side. But that's a little off topic.

Well yeah, yeah, yeah, it's where a bunch of overachievers, which I didn't really realize how sort of abnormal that is until I like went to college and kind of got out of my bubble. I grew up in a very extremely like white, extremely privileged life, and I don't want to be like one of these white people who is just like absolutely about like shitty things happening in the world. My parents are doctors, Like they paid for pretty much my entire undergraduate education. Okay, you know, I I got as far as I did because I had a lot of advantages on my side. But that's a little off topic.

So you get the internship, and it's really fun.

So you get the internship, and it's really fun.

Yeah, it's so exciting. This is like the biggest thing ever for me. So this was on like maybe like a Wednesday or a Thursday. So I spend the weekend just kind of like telling my friends, and everyone's really excited for me, you know, people are really happy. I start like trying to arrange like housing, Like I'm gonna be down there for like five or six months. Where am I gonna live. I'm gonna need a car because it's fucking Houston. The weekend rolls by. You know, we're all we're all drinking, we're all celebrating. Tuesday decides to roll around, and like Tuesday evening or afternoon, after I get it from work, I make the fateful decision and I log onto my Twitter account and I make that famous post all caps. I say, everyone, shut the fuck up. I just got a NASA internship and it starts to get some attention. You know, people are pretty happy for me. It's starting. It's got like a thousand likes, two thousand, a lot of attention, but still kind of rookie numbers. Some of my friends even go so far as to say to me, like, hey, Naomi, like maybe you want to delete this, Like this isn't a good look. NASA and NASA, as they warned me and I later learned, they're They're very particular about their presence on social media. It's they have a whole they have a whole guidebook for it, a guidebook that if not read until way too late.

Yeah, it's so exciting. This is like the biggest thing ever for me. So this was on like maybe like a Wednesday or a Thursday. So I spend the weekend just kind of like telling my friends, and everyone's really excited for me, you know, people are really happy. I start like trying to arrange like housing, Like I'm gonna be down there for like five or six months. Where am I gonna live. I'm gonna need a car because it's fucking Houston. The weekend rolls by. You know, we're all we're all drinking, we're all celebrating. Tuesday decides to roll around, and like Tuesday evening or afternoon, after I get it from work, I make the fateful decision and I log onto my Twitter account and I make that famous post all caps. I say, everyone, shut the fuck up. I just got a NASA internship and it starts to get some attention. You know, people are pretty happy for me. It's starting. It's got like a thousand likes, two thousand, a lot of attention, but still kind of rookie numbers. Some of my friends even go so far as to say to me, like, hey, Naomi, like maybe you want to delete this, Like this isn't a good look. NASA and NASA, as they warned me and I later learned, they're They're very particular about their presence on social media. It's they have a whole they have a whole guidebook for it, a guidebook that if not read until way too late.

I guess this is where I will reveal I don't think you did anything wrong.

I guess this is where I will reveal I don't think you did anything wrong.

Like I don't think I think I think that if I had made different this decisions than the ones I made, I could have come out without losing the internship, but sure, I have to acknowledge that there is a lot of it comes from hubrits on my part. We'll get to that. So then this, like, you know, one afternoon, a day or two after the fact, I log on and this like, old ass man, he's not verified, he's got like no information on his account or whatever. He responds to me. He says just one word language. I'm like, who the fuck does this guy think he is? I don't know, you, Like, can't you just be happy for me? Like, fuck you, old man. So I said back to him what I thought, and I maintained was a pretty funny thing to say back. I said, suck my dick and balls. I'm working at NASA, And they said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I picked up that phrase from a video game bunkie video YouTuber I used to watch a lot of So anyways, and then he responds to me and he says, I'm on the National Space Council that oversees NASA. I'm like, wait, what, I google who is Homer Hicckham like Wikipedia dot com And it turns out Homer Hiccklam is a pretty important dude in the space industry. Do you know the movie October Sky.

Like I don't think I think I think that if I had made different this decisions than the ones I made, I could have come out without losing the internship, but sure, I have to acknowledge that there is a lot of it comes from hubrits on my part. We'll get to that. So then this, like, you know, one afternoon, a day or two after the fact, I log on and this like, old ass man, he's not verified, he's got like no information on his account or whatever. He responds to me. He says just one word language. I'm like, who the fuck does this guy think he is? I don't know, you, Like, can't you just be happy for me? Like, fuck you, old man. So I said back to him what I thought, and I maintained was a pretty funny thing to say back. I said, suck my dick and balls. I'm working at NASA, And they said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I picked up that phrase from a video game bunkie video YouTuber I used to watch a lot of So anyways, and then he responds to me and he says, I'm on the National Space Council that oversees NASA. I'm like, wait, what, I google who is Homer Hicckham like Wikipedia dot com And it turns out Homer Hiccklam is a pretty important dude in the space industry. Do you know the movie October Sky.

Yes, that's what I'm gonna say.

Yes, that's what I'm gonna say.

Yeah, I have to this day. I've never seen the movie, but I later learned that they made a movie about this guy really important. He is on the National Space Council that oversees NASA, and so I'm like, wow, this exchange is really fucking funny. And this is when some of my friends were like, Naomi, I really think you need to start deleting this, and I'm like, no, it'll be fine. Everything's fine. This is just a funny thing happening on the internet. Everything is gonna be fine. So I leave it up for I don't know, a week, two weeks, and it is getting like a lot of attention, like tens of thousands.

Yeah, I have to this day. I've never seen the movie, but I later learned that they made a movie about this guy really important. He is on the National Space Council that oversees NASA, and so I'm like, wow, this exchange is really fucking funny. And this is when some of my friends were like, Naomi, I really think you need to start deleting this, and I'm like, no, it'll be fine. Everything's fine. This is just a funny thing happening on the internet. Everything is gonna be fine. So I leave it up for I don't know, a week, two weeks, and it is getting like a lot of attention, like tens of thousands.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think this is when I didn't see the post before the interaction took place.

I think this is when I didn't see the post before the interaction took place.

Yeah, yeah, well this is at this point. It's still just online. It hasn't even leaked out into real life yet. Okay, So anyways, so now we come back to my brother's wedding going ahead. It's August twenty eighteen. I am back in Buffalo, New York because my older brother is getting married. It's a Friday night. I'm like getting dressed to go to the rehearsal dinner, and I get this phone call from the NASA people and they're like, hey, did you post this? What I should have done is I should have said yes, that was me. I can delete the post right now if there's a problem. That's not what I said. Okay, We're like again, like thirty, I'm like dressed in like a nice shirt pants for my brother's rehearsal dinner for a wedding.

Yeah, yeah, well this is at this point. It's still just online. It hasn't even leaked out into real life yet. Okay, So anyways, so now we come back to my brother's wedding going ahead. It's August twenty eighteen. I am back in Buffalo, New York because my older brother is getting married. It's a Friday night. I'm like getting dressed to go to the rehearsal dinner, and I get this phone call from the NASA people and they're like, hey, did you post this? What I should have done is I should have said yes, that was me. I can delete the post right now if there's a problem. That's not what I said. Okay, We're like again, like thirty, I'm like dressed in like a nice shirt pants for my brother's rehearsal dinner for a wedding.

Of course, it's yeah, like the most high stake situation you could posibly.

Of course, it's yeah, like the most high stake situation you could posibly.

Yeah, I'm like sitting in my room looking at housing in Houston, and I get this call. They're like, was this you? And I panicked and I tried to lie my way out of it. I was like, no, it was a friend, but you know, I don't even remember what I said it. I stammered my way through some very obviously fake, very obviously bullshit excuse. They're like, we'll be in touch. I'm sitting there in my room and I'm like, oh my god, I just fucked up so bad.

Yeah, I'm like sitting in my room looking at housing in Houston, and I get this call. They're like, was this you? And I panicked and I tried to lie my way out of it. I was like, no, it was a friend, but you know, I don't even remember what I said it. I stammered my way through some very obviously fake, very obviously bullshit excuse. They're like, we'll be in touch. I'm sitting there in my room and I'm like, oh my god, I just fucked up so bad.

My stomach just like turned at Yeah, that's not something you want to hear.

My stomach just like turned at Yeah, that's not something you want to hear.

From now.

From now.

You don't ever want to hear someone say we'll be in touch in that like tone of voice. I was like, I have never fucked up this hard before. Maybe ten minutes later, I get an email from them saying in writing that my my internship offer has been rescinded. I'm like, ah, fuck, I don't know why I in this moment, I felt the need to tell my family, but I was like, guys, I just lost the NASA internship. We're like leaving to go to the dinner. We're like out the fucking door, and everyone's like, Naomi, why are you telling us this now? And everyone's excited for Max's wedding and I'm having just the worst day of my fucking life.